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Bweb
03-06-2008, 02:58 PM
What could have been
Popularity, skills prevented Favre from true greatness

by Dr Z per SI.com

A few of us were standing around Brett Favre's locker on the Friday before the Giants' playoff game, and he was telling stories of what it was like playing for his father at Hancock North Central High in Kiln, Miss.

"Last play of the game against Long Beach," he said. "One of those hot days ... everyone cramping up. I ran a draw to the left side. Missed the handoff, so I kept it and scored. My dad yelled at me, 'What the hell are you doing? Get in the back of the truck.'

"No dates after the game ... nothing. I went home with my dad."

Seems like he's been around forever. Seems he was always the Green Bay angle heading into the season. Brett Favre says he'll play this season, wait a minute, he might not, yes he will. Whew, that was close. Now that that's out of the way, how about cutting down on the interceptions this year?

The Packers have compiled a list of quarterbacks who started at least one game since Favre settled in as their QB 16 years ago. Going into last season, there were 202 of them. Dave Brown and Stoney Case bloomed briefly in the Arizona desert, Bernie Kosar wowed 'em in Cleveland, Joe Montana looked weird, quarterbacking the Chiefs in the playoffs ... and so on. Favre saw them all come and go. The Bears, for instance, went through 21 QBs while the Packers hung in with just one.

The Green Bay press book doesn't leave anything to conjecture.

"A certain first ballot Hall of Famer," is the way the 28-page section on Favre begins, and woe to the Hall of Fame selector who someday would dare neglect the Packers' greatest quarterback in history. In history? Whoa, there. How about Bart Starr? And then you had Arnie Herber and Cecil Isbell, the great passers of the single-wing era, and Johnny Blood, wow, he must have been some back, and ...

Hold on. The old-timers were, well, great old-timers. And Favre never had a cast around him like Starr did. No one had the gun Favre did. Nope, not even the old-timers with that fat football could bring it the way he could. And there never has been a more durable QB in history.

We don't even know how bad some of his injuries were. He didn't exactly carry a sign around, announcing them. He lined up 275 straight times, counting playoffs, since he first was anointed starter in 1992, and we can only guess how close he came to missing some of those outings. And this was and is during the era in which quarterbacks are wrapped in cellophane.

You can make up almost any adjective you want to describe his greatness, and there will be some truth in it, but here's the thing that always killed me about Favre. He could have been greater. Ron Wolf knew it. The Packers' GM knew he was onto an all-time score when he worked the deals that brought Favre over from Atlanta. He was close.

Mike Holmgren knew it. The coach who once sat up nights with Montana, going over the game plan, had Favre for the first seven years of his career. And if you place any value on the passer ratings, you could note Favre's numbers climbed into the 90s, and stayed there for four straight years, stretching from 90.7 to a dazzling 99.5 during Holmgren's last four years with him.

It couldn't have been easy. The coach had a wild stallion on his hands, ever restless, always looking for the big strike, the big gamble. How do you coach caution while you're telling the guy to go out and win it for you in the last minute? It was the coach's dilemma.

Holmgren knew how to handle greatness. He had worked with Montana, who could get into streaks of almost surreal accuracy, plus he had outstanding athletic ability to fall back on. But Favre had the gun Montana never had ... plus the gunslinger's mentality. Play it safe? Coaches' talk. Throw a pick? Well, let's go out and get seven back, then we're even, right?

The surprising thing was that Favre's ratings stayed high, despite his occasional looseness with the ball. That was how hot he could get. Remember the night in Oakland, when it was iffy whether he'd play, following his father's death? Four TD passes and 399 yards in the air was the legacy he left out there. But there were downers, too, and it only hurt Favre that the knights of the TV screen always were ready to make excuses for him.

His fourth quarter and overtime meltdown against the Giants last season, which put a sad end to a remarkably classy season? Never mind ... the redemption of the Giants' field-goal kicker was the angle. The goofy, looping interception that cost the Pack the Eagles' game in OT in the divisionals in 2004? Oh, let's put it on the defense for allowing McNabb his fourth-and-26 completion in regulation.

Always ready to make excuses, always braying about "what a good time he's having," that was the continual barrage from TV. Maybe a few frowns, a stern reprimand or two, might have toned down the wild maverick a little, but gosh, he sure is having fun out there. And that's what the game is all about, isn't it? Fun, boys acting like men and so forth.

This past season was a strange one. It seemed Mike McCarthy's continual harping about how Favre had to protect the ball finally kicked in because his completion-to-interception ratio was close to the highest of his 17-year career, and his percentage of passes completed was the highest. And the team was winning. It fell apart in the last two periods of the Giants game, but what the hell, it had been a hell of a ride.

How will history evaluate him? Capable of almost anything on the field. Heroic. Indestructible. Maddening at times, but great to root for. With only this low key aftermath.

Could have been greater.




I am guessing the faithful in Green Bay will not come to the same conclusion!:eek:

Ebolapox
03-06-2008, 03:01 PM
yeah, cause he SUCKED. he's no tom brady, that's for damned sure :spock:

Sure-Oz
03-06-2008, 03:04 PM
wow, what a dipshit

Hoover
03-06-2008, 03:08 PM
I disagree

Could be have but up a better passer rating and TD to INT ratio, sure. But answer me this, who's more fun to watch Tom Brady or Brett Farve?

Farve hands down, because he played the game not managed it.

Go to hell Dr. Z

Dicky McElephant
03-06-2008, 03:14 PM
Hmmm....and you go by Dr. Z and you write for a paper. You couldn't hold Favre's jock.

Ebolapox
03-06-2008, 03:17 PM
Hmmm....and you go by Dr. Z and you write for a paper. You couldn't hold Favre's jock.

well, he WOULD hold favre's jock: however, his hands are too busy going through his collection of GAME WORN tom brady athletic cups. (he'd just like to thank his hands for being so great!)

Demonpenz
03-06-2008, 03:17 PM
Everyone "could" be better. I agree with some points though.

Brock
03-06-2008, 03:19 PM
It's absolutely correct. Favre should have at least a couple of super bowl rings, but the coaches between Holmgren and McCarthy just let him fling the ball without any discipline at all.

DaneMcCloud
03-06-2008, 03:20 PM
You guys are missing the point.

Brett Favre didn't take football seriously until the past 2 years.

He was undisciplined, didn't study film and didn't practice in the off-season. He spent all of his time in Kiln, Mississippi during the off-season (save for mini-camps) and didn't work to become a better football player. He just played.

McCarthy finally got Favre to finally study film in 2007 and viola! Favre has his best season in over a decade. If he had done that his entire career, there's no telling what he could have accomplished and probably no end to the numbers he could have had.

eazyb81
03-06-2008, 03:24 PM
Hey everyone, look at me!!! I'm wacky Dr. Z with the zany opinions! Favre sucks, can you believe I said that? PAY ATTENTION TO ME!

Brock
03-06-2008, 03:29 PM
Yeah, could have been better = sucks.

:rolleyes:

JBucc
03-06-2008, 03:31 PM
I like Favre, but Z old farte is right. If Favre hadn't been a drunk drug addict the first part of his career and had the work ethic of other greats he could have been better than any ever. His physical tools are off the charts. What if he studied film like Montana.

Chiefnj2
03-06-2008, 03:32 PM
You guys are missing the point.

Brette Favre didn't take football seriously until the past 2 years.
.


Someone who lined up 275 straight times took the game seriously.

Sure-Oz
03-06-2008, 03:33 PM
Statistically he could've been better, career int leader baby

DaneMcCloud
03-06-2008, 03:41 PM
Someone who lined up 275 straight times took the game seriously.

Um, no he didn't.

Otherwise, he would have listened to his coaches, would have studied film and wouldn't have thrown 24 interceptions in a season.

He was probably the most naturally talented QB to ever play the game.

But he wasn't a student of the game and lived off of his athleticism.

mikey23545
03-06-2008, 03:45 PM
.... there's no telling what he could have accomplished <b>and probably no end to the numbers he could have had.</b>

Yeah, he's only the leader in a bajillion different career categories...

If only....

Hoover
03-06-2008, 03:46 PM
He's a throwback and that’s why people love him.

To sit back now and say "well he could have been better" is not right.

In the era of the Wes Welker check down pass, Farve's approach to the game was refreshing. To many QBs these days are afraid to make a good play, they are too afraid to throw an INT. All it does is makes them afraid of winning. The guy put up a ton of yards, threw a ton of TDs, and played 275 consecutive games to boot. Lets not forget that he has a 61% completion percentage, never threw for less than 3000 yards in a season, and took his team to the playoffs countless times.

Brock
03-06-2008, 03:49 PM
took his team to the playoffs countless times.

Actually, he took his team to the playoffs an exact number of times.

Hoover
03-06-2008, 03:58 PM
Actually, he took his team to the playoffs an exact number of times.

Yeah but I'm too lazy to look. Didn't he win the division 7 times and wend to the playoffs 4 other times in 17 years.

Yeah, whats our record...

Deberg_1990
03-06-2008, 03:58 PM
Favre was what he was. An immenesly atheltic, talented guy with a gunslinger mentality.

What Dr. Z wrote was nithing new. People have been saying this same stuff for years. Favre could have gotten more accurate, but that wasnt him. It just not who he is, or was. I wish people would stop writing this crap.

He was an all or nothing guy. You took the good with the bad because you knew he was capable of true greatness. Heck, look at least years Chiefs game.

Brock
03-06-2008, 04:02 PM
Favre could have gotten more accurate, but that wasnt him. It just not who he is, or was.

Bullshit. He DID get more accurate when he tried. That's why they made it to the playoffs this year. Dr. Z is right, the announces used to chuckle right along with Favre right after he threw some stupid underhanded pass that cost his team the game, and it was embarrassing.

Fine, great player, but he should and could have had 4 super bowl rings.

HypnotizedMonkey
03-06-2008, 04:05 PM
sounds like somebody got c0ckblocked once or something. lol

Chiefnj2
03-06-2008, 04:19 PM
Statistically he could've been better, career int leader baby

Pass Attempts .... INTS

Favre... 8,758 ..... 288 (3.2 %)
Marino.. 8,358...... 252 (3.01%)
Unitas... 5,186 .... 253 (4.87%)

Duck Dog
03-06-2008, 04:30 PM
Favre could have been better if his team put better players around him. And it's really not fair to compare Brady to Favre because they play two separate games.

chagrin
03-06-2008, 05:06 PM
Did anybody else struggle with that long winded drivel?

BigMeatballDave
03-06-2008, 05:26 PM
You guys are missing the point.

Brett Favre didn't take football seriously until the past 2 years.

He was undisciplined, didn't study film and didn't practice in the off-season. He spent all of his time in Kiln, Mississippi during the off-season (save for mini-camps) and didn't work to become a better football player. He just played.

McCarthy finally got Favre to finally study film in 2007 and viola! Favre has his best season in over a decade. If he had done that his entire career, there's no telling what he could have accomplished and probably no end to the numbers he could have had.And yet, he's one of the best ever...

DaneMcCloud
03-06-2008, 05:27 PM
Yeah, he's only the leader in a bajillion different career categories...

If only....

So you're of the opinion that if Favre had been a more disciplined QB and had actually spent the off season with his teammates in Green Bay, in addition to actually watching game film the previous 16 seasons, it wouldn't have made any difference?

What the f*ck ever.

Rain Man
03-06-2008, 05:48 PM
Did anybody else struggle with that long winded drivel?

Yeah.

People can criticize Favre for whatever reason, but there's not a team in the league who wouldn't love to draft another like him.

Halfcan
03-06-2008, 05:54 PM
Dr ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz needs to shoot himself in the head already.

DaneMcCloud
03-06-2008, 06:48 PM
And yet, he's one of the best ever...

Oh, there's no doubt about that.

siberian khatru
03-06-2008, 06:58 PM
[SIZE="3"]WAnd then you had Arnie Herber and Cecil Isbell, the great passers of the single-wing era, and Johnny Blood, wow, he must have been some back, and ...



This is my favorite part of the whole piece. Classic Dr. Z pretension. "Look at me, I can pull obscure names out of the air that nobody else can."

Yeah, Lawrence Taylor was OK, I guess, but Bronko Blutarski from the 1927 Steel City Miners of the All-American Pigskin League was a ****ing CEMENT TRUCK.

OnTheWarpath58
03-06-2008, 06:59 PM
This is my favorite part of the whole piece. Classic Dr. Z pretension. "Look at me, I can pull obscure names out of the air that nobody else can."

Yeah, Lawrence Taylor was OK, I guess, but Bronko Blutarski from the 1927 Steel City Miners of the All-American Pigskin League was a ****ing CEMENT TRUCK.

ROFL

Yep.

Dr. Z + Peter King = Sports Illustrated being unreadable.