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Wile_E_Coyote
03-08-2008, 10:25 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_NFL_Draft

1-(#27)Victor Riley-OT
no 2nd rounder
3-(#88)Rashaan Shehee-RB
4-(#120)Greg Favors-LB
5-[from Bears(#128)] Robert Williams-CB
#150 went to GB they took Corey Bradford-WR
6-(#181) Derrick Ransom -DT
7-(#216)Eric Warfield
comp pick (#224)Ernest Blackwell-RB

NE-#83 & Jets-#146 ????????

Wile_E_Coyote
03-08-2008, 10:28 PM
Hasselbeck was a 6th rounder

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-08-2008, 10:44 PM
1. (27) Surtain
3. Hines Ward
4. Matt Birk
5. Fred Beasley
6. Hasselbeck
7. Warfield
7b. Pat Tilman

Wile_E_Coyote
03-08-2008, 10:49 PM
:doh!::whackit:

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-08-2008, 11:00 PM
:doh!::whackit:

I saw the I like Sex pick as well, it just wasn't that funny to me :shrug:

Deberg_1990
03-08-2008, 11:13 PM
Drafts like that are a huge reason why Carl needs to go.

Victor Riley wasnt technically a bust, but he didnt last long either.
and those middle round picks of Sheehee, Williams and Favors.......good god.



But hey, no matter what you think of Warfield, he was a steal in in the 7th round for as long as he played.

chiefs1111
03-08-2008, 11:19 PM
wow,i totally forgot about Rashaan Shehee.....

chiefs1111
03-08-2008, 11:22 PM
come to think of it i dont even remember rober williams and barely recall the name ernest blackwell

philfree
03-08-2008, 11:24 PM
Drafts like that are a huge reason why Carl needs to go.

Victor Riley wasnt technically a bust, but he didnt last long either.
and those middle round picks of Sheehee, Williams and Favors.......good god.



But hey, no matter what you think of Warfield, he was a steal in in the 7th round for as long as he played.


Rilley was alright till he broke his leg. Then he tried to run his wife over with his car or somepin like that.

PhilFree:arrow:

Bump
03-09-2008, 12:16 AM
we got Jerad Allen in the 4th round, one of the few draft steals that the Chiefs can boast in recent memory.

Valiant
03-09-2008, 03:47 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_NFL_Draft

1-(#27)Victor Riley-OT
no 2nd rounder
3-(#88)Rashaan Shehee-RB
4-(#120)Greg Favors-LB
5-[from Bears(#128)] Robert Williams-CB
#150 went to GB they took Corey Bradford-WR
6-(#181) Derrick Ransom -DT
7-(#216)Eric Warfield
comp pick (#224)Ernest Blackwell-RB

NE-#83 & Jets-#146 ????????

Dream Picks for that year..

1.27........... Ahman Green
2.none
3.88...........Hines Ward
4.120.........Martin Chase
5.128.........Matt Birk
6.181.........Matt Hasslebeck
7.216.........Eric Warfield
7.224.........Pat Tilman


Wow we need to see what kind of roster could have been put togehter with hindsight.. Can only pick players after the original and then the next round pick.. Basically if you picked 24 and 42nd, your 24th player has to be picked between 24 and 42, not after 42..

Mecca
03-09-2008, 04:02 AM
If you wanna see a real draft to get pissed about....go find that year we took Jerome Woods and Reggie Tongue...

A few picks after we take Woods, Lawyer Milloy goes...a few picks after we take Tongue..Brian Dawkins goes...

Now that is something to be pissed about we couldn't take the right ****in safeties.

Zeke Ziggle
03-09-2008, 04:31 AM
The only good thing that comes from this draft is that it set San Diego back years. Luckily for them they figured it out while we sit here 10 years later and are still no closer.

Deberg_1990
03-09-2008, 08:26 AM
If you wanna see a real draft to get pissed about....go find that year we took Jerome Woods and Reggie Tongue...

A few picks after we take Woods, Lawyer Milloy goes...a few picks after we take Tongue..Brian Dawkins goes...

Now that is something to be pissed about we couldn't take the right ****in safeties.


and that was one of Carl Petersons better drafts. We got 4 starters out of that 96 draft.

Woods, Tounge, Donnie Edwards and John Browning.

Oh..and Joe Horn was snagged in the 5th round that year.

OnTheWarpath58
03-09-2008, 08:41 AM
I still think 2001 might be the worst draft under Carl Peterson.

We didn't have a pick until the 3rd, but had 9 picks, and ****ed up almost every one of them.

Eric Downing
Snoop Minnis
Monty Beisel
George Layne
Billy Baber
Derrick Blaylock
Alex Sulfsted
Shaunard Harts
Terdell Sands


Who we could have had:


Kareem McKensie
Dwight Smith
Ryan Diem
Floyd Womack
Russ Hochstein
Derrick Blaylock
TJ Houshmanzadeh
Marlon McCree
Terdell Sands

Deberg_1990
03-09-2008, 09:12 AM
I still think 2001 might be the worst draft under Carl Peterson.




Depends on how you look at it. We had to give up picks for Green and Vermeil right?

Those two did help us win alot of games.

OnTheWarpath58
03-09-2008, 09:17 AM
Depends on how you look at it. We had to give up picks for Green and Vermeil right?

Those two did help us win alot of games.

BFD.

With the picks we gave up for those two, we could have had Drew Brees and Kris Jenkins.

Add those two to the list, and it gets uglier.

jjchieffan
03-09-2008, 09:33 AM
If you wanna see a real draft to get pissed about....go find that year we took Jerome Woods and Reggie Tongue...

A few picks after we take Woods, Lawyer Milloy goes...a few picks after we take Tongue..Brian Dawkins goes...

Now that is something to be pissed about we couldn't take the right ****in safeties.

Woods and Tongue came in as solid starters very quickly and both played at a high level for years. I would hardly call them busts. You are such a dumbass.

OnTheWarpath58
03-09-2008, 09:37 AM
Woods and Tongue came in as solid starters very quickly and both played at a high level for years. I would hardly call them busts. You are such a dumbass.

I don't see where he calls them busts.

He's saying we picked the wrong guys.

Milloy and Dawkins >>>>>>>Tongue and Woods.

jjchieffan
03-09-2008, 09:45 AM
I don't see where he calls them busts.

He's saying we picked the wrong guys.

Milloy and Dawkins >>>>>>>Tongue and Woods.

Well, he says that we should be pissed that we took those guys. The only reason to be pissed we took someone is if they were a bust. Granted, Milloy and Dawkins were better. But you can't be pissed about taking Tongue and Woods. You can say that for most teams in every draft. If Brady Quinn becomes a star, 20 teams will look foolish for passing on him. Every team in the league should be pissed that their team passed on Tom Brady for 5 rounds. How about all the teams that passed on Jared Allen on day 1 of the draft? The guy is just like Goatse. An instigator that thinks he knows more than everyone else.

milkman
03-09-2008, 10:03 AM
Well, he says that we should be pissed that we took those guys. The only reason to be pissed we took someone is if they were a bust. Granted, Milloy and Dawkins were better. But you can't be pissed about taking Tongue and Woods. You can say that for most teams in every draft. If Brady Quinn becomes a star, 20 teams will look foolish for passing on him. Every team in the league should be pissed that their team passed on Tom Brady for 5 rounds. How about all the teams that passed on Jared Allen on day 1 of the draft? The guy is just like Goatse. An instigator that thinks he knows more than everyone else.

You need to grow up and stop obsessing about people.

There are going to be guys you don't like here.

You seem like a pretty good guy, for the most part, but you're going to die early if you let other's opinions about football players upset like they do.

jjchieffan
03-09-2008, 10:17 AM
You need to grow up and stop obsessing about people.

There are going to be guys you don't like here.

You seem like a pretty good guy, for the most part, but you're going to die early if you let other's opinions about football players upset like they do.

I wouldn't say that I obsess over them. I just get sick of them and say so. Especially Mecca. He has an opinion on every subject, and he states it as though it is fact. I don't think he has ever posted IMHO before anything. He also continues to post that same opinion over and over in dozens of threads until I have just had enough. Granted this is a message board and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but he just tries to be annoying. I know I am not alone in feeling that way because of all the pos rep I have received for posts calling him out.

milkman
03-09-2008, 10:22 AM
I wouldn't say that I obsess over them. I just get sick of them and say so. Especially Mecca. He has an opinion on every subject, and he states it as though it is fact. I don't think he has ever posted IMHO before anything. He also continues to post that same opinion over and over in dozens of threads until I have just had enough. Granted this is a message board and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but he just tries to be annoying. I know I am not alone in feeling that way because of all the pos rep I have received for posts calling him out.

I get that.

I know a lot of people don't like mecca's opinions, and he does tend to go overboard.

But I'm just saying you need to relax a little, and not let it get to you so much.

Life is to short to let an opinion on a message forum get you so worked up.

FTR, though, I think mecca is right more often than he's wrong.

bsp4444
03-09-2008, 10:29 AM
Sounds like there are a lot of MECCA apologists, here. I have to side with JJ CHIEFFAN, here. Jerome Woods and and Reggie Tongue were two very solid safeties and turned around that defense in a hurry after losing some pretty high caliber players. The fact that two other safeties, could have been picked that might have been better in our scheme is sour grapes.

stonedstooge
03-09-2008, 10:36 AM
Mecca is entitled to his opinions and they can be taken just as that. His opinions. Other people have opinions too. Findthedr had his opinions and backed them up with research that could have been right or wrong. Who knows. He was passionate about what he thought and was driven off the board for it. So Mecca gets a pass and findthedr doesn't? And then to have Mecca turn around and throw findthedr under the bus time after time when he gets a chance gets a little old too. I don't take anything anyone says as gospel, because it doesn't mean shit what you or I think. It's still up to the two or more morons that are running this organization. If you want to throw me under the bus for my opinion, go ahead and feel free to do so. I won't get upset, because it doesn't matter. Everyone should have an equal chance to give their opinion. And this happens to be mine.

OnTheWarpath58
03-09-2008, 10:37 AM
Sounds like there are a lot of MECCA apologists, here. I have to side with JJ CHIEFFAN, here. Jerome Woods and and Reggie Tongue were two very solid safeties and turned around that defense in a hurry after losing some pretty high caliber players. The fact that two other safeties, could have been picked that might have been better in our scheme is sour grapes.

So, agreeing with this specific opinion is being an apologist?

I can't think of many football fans, of any team, that wouldn't prefer having Milloy and Dawkins over Woods and Tongue.

Milloy and Dawkins have 10 Pro Bowl appearances between them

Woods and Tongue have 1.

Milloy and Dawkins are STILL in the league.

Where are Woods and Tongue?

milkman
03-09-2008, 10:42 AM
Mecca is entitled to his opinions and they can be taken just as that. His opinions. Other people have opinions too. Findthedr had his opinions and backed them up with research that could have been right or wrong. Who knows. He was passionate about what he thought and was driven off the board for it. So Mecca gets a pass and findthedr doesn't? And then to have Mecca turn around and throw findthedr under the bus time after time when he gets a chance gets a little old too. I don't take anything anyone says as gospel, because it doesn't mean shit what you or I think. It's still up to the two or more morons that are running this organization. If you want to throw me under the bus for my opinion, go ahead and feel free to do so. I won't get upset, because it doesn't matter. Everyone should have an equal chance to give their opinion. And this happens to be mine.

I don't know what got findthedr the one day ban (apparently), however, he didn't get driven off the board, and unless I'm wrong is free to post here still.

ftd was obsessive, and he posted a lot useless research, but I enjoyed the debate with him.

He's a moron, but he's entertaining.

stonedstooge
03-09-2008, 10:47 AM
I didn't know he was given a one day ban. What for? Yes he may have said some things off the wall but I too enjoyed reading his posts. Again, it was his opinion and he is entitled to it just like each and every one of is. I just don't like those who think their opinion is automatic fact. Mecca, check the Colts roster and tell us again how a team is not built on free agency. You may want to change your opinion on that one before you state it as fact again. Just trying to help you out.

milkman
03-09-2008, 10:55 AM
I didn't know he was given a one day ban. What for? Yes he may have said some things off the wall but I too enjoyed reading his posts. Again, it was his opinion and he is entitled to it just like each and every one of is. I just don't like those who think their opinion is automatic fact. Mecca, check the Colts roster and tell us again how a team is not built on free agency. You may want to change your opinion on that one before you state it as fact again. Just trying to help you out.

I may be wrong, but I think mecca's point is that teams like the Chargers and Colts built their core group through the draft.

The Chargers early in their building process brought is some free agents to fill out the roster, but over a period of time, those players have been replaced by players from the drat.

The Colts still try to fill some holes with free agent additions, or through trades, but the core, Manning, Harrison, Wayne, Addai, Freeny, Sanders, etc, are all home grown.

htismaqe
03-09-2008, 11:02 AM
I didn't know he was given a one day ban. What for? Yes he may have said some things off the wall but I too enjoyed reading his posts. Again, it was his opinion and he is entitled to it just like each and every one of is. I just don't like those who think their opinion is automatic fact. Mecca, check the Colts roster and tell us again how a team is not built on free agency. You may want to change your opinion on that one before you state it as fact again. Just trying to help you out.

Probably for spam, cross-thread posting, editing posts after the fact in order to try to snare people, and various other things.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 05:23 PM
I got neg repped and bitched out for saying Dawkins and Milloy are/were better than Woods and Tongue....now I've seen it all.

Deberg_1990
03-09-2008, 05:26 PM
I got neg repped and bitched out for saying Dawkins and Milloy are/were better than Woods and Tongue....now I've seen it all.

Nobody is saying you are wrong.

In fact, ive always was one of Jerome Woods biggest critics ( I always thought he was overrated)

But, there are tons of worse Carl Peterson draft blunders than the 96 draft. Like i mentioned earlier, at least we obtained 4 immediate solid starters out of it, and went 13-3 the next season.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 05:30 PM
Nobody is saying you are wrong.

In fact, ive always was one of Jerome Woods biggest critics ( I always thought he was overrated)

But, there are tons of worse Carl Peterson draft blunders than the 96 draft. Like i mentioned earlier, at least we obtained 4 immediate solid starters out of it, and went 13-3 the next season.

I still consider it a major screwup when you take 2 safeties and take the wrong guy both times....

Bernard Pollard starts I still think it was dumb to take him in front of Ko Simpson we'll see on that one.

It makes me more pissed off when they take the wrong guy at a position, it's like um what are you lookin at fools?

Deberg_1990
03-09-2008, 05:34 PM
I
It makes me more pissed off when they take the wrong guy at a position, it's like um what are you lookin at fools?

Yea, thats been a HUGE Carl Peterson f*ckup for years. Its like he just falls in love with a guy at the combine or all star games and doesnt look at college production.


Someone mentioned the other day that he has more of an input on 1st day picks, and less so in the 2nd day picks. Thats why we hit on more lower round picks than the 1st day guys.

Not sure if its true or not...

Mecca
03-09-2008, 05:35 PM
Yea, thats been a HUGE Carl Peterson f*ckup for years. Its like he just falls in love with a guy at the combine or all star games and doesnt look at college production.


Someone mentioned the other day that he has more of an input on 1st day picks, and less so in the 2nd day picks. Thats why we hit on more lower round picks than the 1st day guys.

Not sure if its true or not...

Either the Chiefs don't listen to scouting or their scouts are really stupid it's one or the other.

Sure-Oz
03-09-2008, 05:38 PM
I got neg repped and bitched out for saying Dawkins and Milloy are/were better than Woods and Tongue....now I've seen it all.

Positive rep to make up for the dumbass neg rep.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 05:40 PM
Positive rep to make up for the dumbass neg rep.

Ah no biggie man, it was just JJ, he acts like I tied him to a chair and made him watch me bang his mom.

Also I thought he ignored me.....guess not.

jjchieffan
03-09-2008, 06:59 PM
Ah no biggie man, it was just JJ, he acts like I tied him to a chair and made him watch me bang his mom.

Also I thought he ignored me.....guess not.

I gave up on the ignore feature for you. Everyone was constantly quoting your bs so I was seeing it anyway. And, I didn't blast you for saying that Milloy and Dawkins were better. I blasted you for saying we should be pissed about the picks. Reggie Tongue was one hard hitting safety when he was here, Woods was pretty good. They were one of the best safety tandems KC has had in years, and you think we should be pissed because Peterson took them? Please. I am pissed because he took Ryan Simms, Eddie Freeman, Greg Hill, and Trezelle Jenkins. I am not pissed because he took Tongue and Woods. Nor should I be.

Deberg_1990
03-09-2008, 07:09 PM
I I am pissed because he took Ryan Simms, Eddie Freeman, Greg Hill, and Trezelle Jenkins. I am not pissed because he took Tongue and Woods. Nor should I be.

Petersons problem is, he has one solid draft like in 96, followed by years of just nothing. (97 and 98). So there is never any continuity, which leads to free agent mediocrity.

We already discussed 98, but the only player we got out of 97 was TG. Other players drafed that year were: Kevin Lockett, Pat Barnes, Nathan Parks, June Henley, Issac Byrd, etc...


So in two years all we got was One player. Pitiful...

jjchieffan
03-09-2008, 07:18 PM
Petersons problem is, he has one solid draft like in 96, followed by years of just nothing. (97 and 98). So there is never any continuity, which leads to free agent mediocrity.

We already discussed 98, but the only player we got out of 97 was TG. Other players drafed that year were: Kevin Lockett, Pat Barnes, Nathan Parks, June Henley, Issac Byrd, etc...


So in two years all we got was One player. Pitiful...

Oh I agree whole heartedly. Don't take my comments as defending Peterson at all. On the contrary, I am saying with all of his bad draft picks to attack, we don't need to nitpick and get upset because we took Reggie Tongue instead of Brian Dawkins.

The Bad Guy
03-09-2008, 07:21 PM
Well, he says that we should be pissed that we took those guys. The only reason to be pissed we took someone is if they were a bust. Granted, Milloy and Dawkins were better. But you can't be pissed about taking Tongue and Woods. You can say that for most teams in every draft. If Brady Quinn becomes a star, 20 teams will look foolish for passing on him. Every team in the league should be pissed that their team passed on Tom Brady for 5 rounds. How about all the teams that passed on Jared Allen on day 1 of the draft? The guy is just like Goatse. An instigator that thinks he knows more than everyone else.

And why can't we be pissed about Tongue and Woods?

Tongue lasted here about 3 years after he was drafted.

Jerome Woods had one great year in 1998, one good year in 2003. He was hurt all of 02, was nothing special in 1999-2001 either.

All he is ****ing doing is pointing out that Lawyer Milloy and Brian Dawkins are better than Jerome Woods and Reggie Tongue.

Why is comprehension so ****ing hard on this message board?

If this team had Brian Dawkins and Lawyer Milloy over the last 10 years, this defense would have never sunk to the absolute level of shit that it did.

The Bad Guy
03-09-2008, 07:22 PM
Oh I agree whole heartedly. Don't take my comments as defending Peterson at all. On the contrary, I am saying with all of his bad draft picks to attack, we don't need to nitpick and get upset because we took Reggie Tongue instead of Brian Dawkins.

That's not nitpicking.

Reggie Tongue is out of the NFL.

Brian Dawkins has been the leader of one of the best defenses in the NFL for the past 10 years.

There is a stark difference in talent between Tongue and Dawkins.

The Bad Guy
03-09-2008, 07:23 PM
I gave up on the ignore feature for you. Everyone was constantly quoting your bs so I was seeing it anyway. And, I didn't blast you for saying that Milloy and Dawkins were better. I blasted you for saying we should be pissed about the picks. Reggie Tongue was one hard hitting safety when he was here, Woods was pretty good. They were one of the best safety tandems KC has had in years, and you think we should be pissed because Peterson took them? Please. I am pissed because he took Ryan Simms, Eddie Freeman, Greg Hill, and Trezelle Jenkins. I am not pissed because he took Tongue and Woods. Nor should I be.

Describing Jerome Woods as "pretty good" tells me you grade too lightly in the talent evaluation department.

alanm
03-09-2008, 07:30 PM
And why can't we be pissed about Tongue and Woods?

Tongue lasted here about 3 years after he was drafted.

Jerome Woods had one great year in 1998, one good year in 2003. He was hurt all of 02, was nothing special in 1999-2001 either.

All he is ****ing doing is pointing out that Lawyer Milloy and Brian Dawkins are better than Jerome Woods and Reggie Tongue.

Why is comprehension so ****ing hard on this message board?

If this team had Brian Dawkins and Lawyer Milloy over the last 10 years, this defense would have never sunk to the absolute level of shit that it did.
I seriously doubt that either one of them would have been in KC as long as Tongue and Woods. They would have left for more money somewhere else.

Hoover
03-09-2008, 07:30 PM
Again, I think we give CP too much credit/blame for these drafts. I think most of it rides on the HC. Sure Carl has influence and at times puts his foot down, but I think the HC and his approach has had more to do with our drafts than anything.

For example in the past two years our drafts have improved. Does that mean Carl is getting better, or is it because we have a new HC who has a better idea of who to draft for our system.

I'll go out on a limb and say we will all be pumped about who we (Herm) drafts this year.

Its the HC folks. That 96 class is credit to Marty, not Carl. The early 2000 drafts are all to blame on Gun and DV.

jjchieffan
03-09-2008, 07:43 PM
And why can't we be pissed about Tongue and Woods?

Tongue lasted here about 3 years after he was drafted.

Jerome Woods had one great year in 1998, one good year in 2003. He was hurt all of 02, was nothing special in 1999-2001 either.

All he is ****ing doing is pointing out that Lawyer Milloy and Brian Dawkins are better than Jerome Woods and Reggie Tongue.

Why is comprehension so ****ing hard on this message board?

If this team had Brian Dawkins and Lawyer Milloy over the last 10 years, this defense would have never sunk to the absolute level of shit that it did.

You are off a bit on your history of Tongue and Woods. Tongue was here until 2000 when he became a free agent. Peterson did not retain him because of the salary cap. He was a hot commodity in free agency and signed a big contract with Seattle. We replaced him with Wesley I believe.

Deberg_1990
03-09-2008, 07:50 PM
Its the HC folks. That 96 class is credit to Marty, not Carl. The early 2000 drafts are all to blame on Gun and DV.

So Marty should recieve blame for the aformentioned 97 and 98 drafts as well.

What about 95 with the Trezelle pick? How about Harvey Williams, Matt Blundin, and Greg Hill, etc.......


Carl is the only common denominator running though all the coaches. IMO, Carl is all to blame.

jjchieffan
03-09-2008, 07:57 PM
That's not nitpicking.

Reggie Tongue is out of the NFL.

Brian Dawkins has been the leader of one of the best defenses in the NFL for the past 10 years.

There is a stark difference in talent between Tongue and Dawkins.

Do you remember our defense back in the years from 96-2000 when we had both of them? Our defense was at the top of the league.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 08:22 PM
And it would have been better if we had taken those guys because they are better...Brian Dawkins and Milloy are something this team hasn't had in years......actual leaders.

htismaqe
03-09-2008, 08:23 PM
So Marty should recieve blame for the aformentioned 97 and 98 drafts as well.

What about 95 with the Trezelle pick? How about Harvey Williams, Matt Blundin, and Greg Hill, etc.......


Carl is the only common denominator running though all the coaches. IMO, Carl is all to blame.

If you look at the TYPE of player chosen, there's some very clear differences between the drafts under Marty and Vermeil - VERY clear differences.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 08:25 PM
Vermiels drafting ideas were awful, he'd pick guys he liked above talent.

The Bad Guy
03-09-2008, 08:28 PM
You are off a bit on your history of Tongue and Woods. Tongue was here until 2000 when he became a free agent. Peterson did not retain him because of the salary cap. He was a hot commodity in free agency and signed a big contract with Seattle. We replaced him with Wesley I believe.

He signed a 5-year deal worth 11 million with the Seahawks.

Not earth shattering money.

Tongue was here until 1999. Wesley took over in 2000.

Tongue played 4 years for the Chiefs, 3 as a starter.

He was nothing special.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 08:29 PM
He signed a 5-year deal worth 11 million with the Seahawks.

Not earth shattering money.

Tongue was here until 1999. Wesley took over in 2000.

Tongue played 4 years for the Chiefs, 3 as a starter.

He was nothing special.

But we really have no place to bitch that he was taken ahead of one of the best safeties in the league over the last 10 years...

The Bad Guy
03-09-2008, 08:29 PM
Do you remember our defense back in the years from 96-2000 when we had both of them? Our defense was at the top of the league.

Are you arguing that Reggie Tongue was on the same level as Brian Dawkins those years?

Our defense was top notch in 1997. In 1998, and 1999, our defense was nothing great.

In 1997, that was a great defense.

eazyb81
03-09-2008, 09:59 PM
There are so many other variables involved that it's hard for me to consider these hindsight thoughts. Football isn't played in a vacuum.

No doubt that Dawkins and Milloy have had MUCH greater careers than Tongue and Wesley. That said, maybe they didn't fit our scheme at the time? Maybe our scouts had serious questions about their character? Maybe we were looking at guys who could help out immediately on special teams?

There are a million different possibilities, and I don't think it's as simple to think that if we just drafted Dawkins instead of Tongue that we would have had the Brian Dawkins that everyone has seen the past few years in the NFL. Just my 2 cents.

Sure-Oz
03-09-2008, 10:21 PM
Brian Dawkins and Lawyer Milloy will always be picked over Reggie Tongue and Jerome Woods, ridiculous...i AM pissed that we didn't get either of those guys...

Things would've been WAY different on defense!

Chiefmanwillcatch
03-09-2008, 10:38 PM
The other problem with Vermeil was that he always always looking for system guys instead of Best Player.

Hoover
03-09-2008, 11:17 PM
If you look at the TYPE of player chosen, there's some very clear differences between the drafts under Marty and Vermeil - VERY clear differences.

BINGO

and Yes Marty is to blame. I never thought he was a good in that department.

Rausch
03-09-2008, 11:39 PM
BINGO

and Yes Marty is to blame. I never thought he was a good in that department.

Back then we did a great job in the FA market and average in the draft (boom or bust.) We had Shields, DT, Dale Carter, Gonzo, etc. FA's were Big Daddy Dan, Kimble Anders, Mark Collins, James Hasty, etc.The rest are easily forgetable.

Under Gun it was average to poor in all.

Under DV our trades were great, draft was poor, FA's were good.

So far under Herm the drafts grade to average and our FA's would have to be huge busts. No real trades to speak of.

There's as much evidence to Point to Carl changing as there is to him adapting to his HC.

But so far Marty did a much better job in the draft than anyone afterwards. His SD record is pretty damned good as well...

blueballs
03-10-2008, 12:17 AM
Ah no biggie man, it was just JJ, he acts like I tied him to a chair and made him watch me bang his mom.

would you do her in the butt

Valiant
03-10-2008, 03:34 AM
2002 revisited

Round 1, #6 overall, DT Ryan Sims
Round 2, #43 overall, DT Eddie Freeman
Round 4, #107 overall, FB Omar Easy
Round 5, #143 overall, LB Scott Fujita
Round 7, #221 overall, LB Maurice Rodriguez

HIndsight draft...

1.8....................Dwight Freeney DE
2.43..................LeCharles Bentley C
3.75..................Josh McCown QB
4.107................Najeh Davenport RB
5.143................Aaron Kampman DE
7.221................Ronald Curry WR

Frankie
03-10-2008, 12:06 PM
In the interest of fairness, what Peterson draft do you consider his best?