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Tribal Warfare
03-08-2008, 10:34 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/523283.html (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/523283.html)


Croyle sticks around KC to show he wants to stick as starting QB

BY KENT BABB | THE KANSAS CITY STAR


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Brodie Croyle wants to hang around for a long time as the starting quarterback for the Chiefs, so he decided that he would show the team just how committed he was by spending the offseason in the Kansas City area.
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<!-- END /pubsys/production/story/story_assets.comp --> <table> </table> His pickup truck is splattered with mud from front to back, with empty foam coffee cups in the truck’s two front-seat cup holders and a few more on the floor, plus a well-used tin of dipping tobacco tucked somewhere between the seats.The 24-year-old smiles big and has a mop of dark brown hair. He speaks with an Alabama twang and wears T-shirts and sneakers on work days and off days, the joy of youth and the comfort of home.
“There’s nothing big-time about me,” he says. “I’m just a starting quarterback in the NFL.”
Brodie Croyle is an average man with an oversized job. The Chiefs’ quarterback says all the right things and is trying his damnedest to do them, too. He and Kelli, his wife of seven months, bought a house in the Johnson County community of Stilwell and put down roots. Said they wanted to stay for a long time.
He could be in the South, enjoying the warm weather and his family’s company — at his parents’ ranch near Birmingham, Ala., or with Kelli’s family in Mississippi. Instead, he is here, where there are constant reminders that the Chiefs lost all six of Croyle’s starts in 2007.
So many of his teammates — at least half of them, a team spokesman says, but Croyle suspects it is more — blew town after the Chiefs’ last game. They headed to Las Vegas or Hawaii or wherever home is, anywhere that would wash away the memories of a 4-12 season, anywhere but Kansas City. But Croyle settled into Middle America, where he bundled up and braced himself for cold weather and criticism.
“If we’re going to play here, if this is going to be our team, we want it to be our city, too,” he says. “We don’t want to be going from here to there to there. We want to have a home, and we want a place to call home. Kansas City is it.”
Most days, Croyle rises before dawn, goes hunting in the Kansas woods and heads to Arrowhead Stadium. He spends three or four days a week at the stadium, he says, almost every hour spent as the only player there. Coaches have noticed his commitment and even admire it. They say more players should have Croyle’s drive.
But it might not be enough. The NFL draft is in two months, and the Chiefs have a prime choice at No. 5 overall. They have other holes, but coaches might be tempted to take an elite college quarterback.
This season will be Croyle’s third in Kansas City. He is neither a rookie nor a veteran; neither proven nor untested. Coaches have no idea what to think about Croyle because he has neither won nor lost the long-term starting job. He has no defined identity, and that has kept the Chiefs from fully embracing him as their long-term answer at quarterback.
Coaches say his decision to remain in Kansas City this offseason suggests he is committed. Now he must prove himself — one way or the other. Coaches hope Croyle shows he is anything but average.
“We’re really at a crossroads right now,” Chiefs quarterbacks coach Dick Curl says after thinking for a long time about Croyle’s future here. “We’re at that point that we still need — this won’t sound good, maybe — a little bit more time to see where we’re going to go. He’s certainly shown he has the ability to play. But this is a bottom-line business, plain and simple. It’s not about doing good things. It’s about winning. And he needs to win.”
•••
The look never changed, and neither did the questions. For six consecutive Thursdays, the day of the starting quarterback’s weekly news conference, Croyle stood at a podium with a beaten-down expression and told reporters he didn’t know why the Chiefs were losing.

Guru
03-08-2008, 10:36 PM
Damn that is completely unreadable.

philfree
03-08-2008, 11:01 PM
Damn that is completely unreadable.

? I didn't have no trouble reading it. At least we know he's dedicated and is working to improve when most of the other players are taking it easy. All the young Chiefs(vets too) need to read this article and get there ass's back to KC and go to work. They helped lose those games so they too have alot to prove. You know we all want our QB to be successful because that means our team is successful but after reading that it makes me root for Croyle for him.

PhilFree:arrow:

Count Zarth
03-08-2008, 11:03 PM
lol @ tribal warfare

Cochise
03-08-2008, 11:06 PM
Was it the system? Was it injuries? Was it him?

“You really just don’t have the answers,” he says now. “At some point, you kind of get tired of it. You just say the standard book answer week in and week out.”

It is a responsibility that comes with the starting job, but it was one Croyle never warmed up to. He often looked frustrated and uneasy, and the media were not the only ones to notice. Chiefs coach Herm Edwards says Croyle looked uncomfortable at times shouldering the team’s load and being its face.

He would show promise, sure, and make outstanding plays in impossible situations. Then he would try too hard, as young quarterbacks do, and remind Edwards how far Croyle had yet to go.

“He had flashes where you’d say, ‘Hey, man, wow,’ ” Edwards says. “Then all of a sudden, he’d be a rookie again.”

Edwards says it is not uncommon among inexperienced passers. In fact, Edwards compares Croyle to a young Chad Pennington, who endured similar difficulties under Edwards during Pennington’s first season as the New York Jets’ starter.

But Pennington had been groomed for two seasons behind Vinny Testaverde; Croyle’s move to the starting lineup was part of a youth movement that will continue throughout this offseason. Croyle was sacked 10 times in his first three starts and started six of the nine games Kansas City lost to end the season.

Pennington never endured that, and Edwards admits Croyle had a more difficult task than Pennington. The coach says he was careful after each game to remind Croyle it was a Chiefs problem — not a Croyle problem.

“He knows who he is, and he knows what he is,” says John Croyle, Brodie’s father. “He knows what it takes to win. Nothing in college, high school or life comes easy. He’s had to work hard his whole life.”

Curl says the staff has draped Croyle in positive reinforcement to maintain his confidence. It was not easy as Kansas City finished its worst season in 30 years with Croyle standing in front of his locker in the Jets’ locker room. Other players were making offseason plans, packing bags and babbling about flights to somewhere other than Kansas City. Some laughed, and some said goodbye to teammates.

Croyle, meanwhile, was one of the last to depart the Meadowlands locker room. He slid on a pair of cowboy boots and wrapped a scarf around his neck. He told the media to fire away, but his eyes darted toward the exit.

The questions kept coming. As usual, there weren’t enough answers, so Croyle stood there with the same look on his face he showed for six long weeks.

When the questions were finished, Croyle left the locker room with his eyes pointed toward the floor.

“You have to be very careful with that position,” Edwards says. “You’re asking him to do certain things. No, he wasn’t comfortable. That was because we didn’t win. That bothers him to no end, more than people can even imagine. Whatever happened last year, he’s got to get that out of his thinking. You can’t let a season change who you are.

“There have been a lot of quarterbacks in this league that have been put in that spot, being young, and they never recover from it.”

•••

Four months. That was Croyle’s mental recovery timetable, a period he had to prove he wanted this responsibility and the expectations, from the last game to the draft. He was used to the spotlight and chaos — he played for three coaches in four years at Alabama, which never lost more than three consecutive regular-season games while Croyle was there. Losing was never part of the equation. Not like this.

Cochise
03-08-2008, 11:06 PM
“It sucks. There ain’t no doubt about it,” he says in that Alabama drawl. “I’ve never really been a part of losing. It played on me pretty hard. It still does.”

Croyle left Kansas City for 10 days in January to go duck hunting in Arkansas. It was the only time he left Kansas City until last weekend, when he went to Alabama to appear on a television show on hunting. Croyle returned from Arkansas and met with Edwards. The coach told Croyle to remember one thing during the offseason and beyond: Keep his mouth closed. Edwards told him not to worry about trying to be a leader because, regardless of what Croyle tried in the past, NFL players are different. They don’t listen to just anybody, and a young quarterback without a win to his name has little credibility with veterans.

For now, Edwards told Croyle, just play. It was the same thing Edwards told Pennington before Pennington led the Jets to the 2002 AFC East championship.

“You can’t lead until you win,” Edwards says. “That’s just the way it is.”

Croyle listened, and he settled into the offseason schedule. The film sessions are long, but Croyle says they help him. Curl says Croyle’s presence gives the offense a head start on the 2008 season. It would not be possible if Croyle had departed Kansas City longer than a few days.

He has, however, been within earshot of radio call-in shows and outspoken fans who hope the Chiefs draft a quarterback in the first round, a star who eventually would force Croyle into a backup role. Boston College star Matt Ryan is the hot name. Some suggest Ryan is such a talent the Chiefs would have to take him if he falls to No. 5. And there is this: The Chiefs have nine more draft picks, and NFL executives don’t like not knowing who their quarterback will be.

Croyle has heard the talk but says he ignores it. He might not even watch the draft, he says. Maybe he’ll go hunting.

“You hear it, but what do you do about it?” he says. “All I can do is come up here and get ready to go. My head coach has said, ‘He’s my guy; he’s the guy I’m going with.’ The easy out is to take another quarterback, and he’s going to be this, that and the other. Does it bother me? No. If it happens, it happens.”

•••

Croyle’s feet hit the floor before the alarm clock has a chance. It is 4:30 a.m. Daybreak is nearly two hours away. He dresses in camouflage and loads his white pickup with plastic ducks and geese, decoys that attract the real ones. Croyle drives to the hunt site and slides his duck boat, his first big purchase after signing with the Chiefs, into the water of some pond in Overland Park or Stilwell or anywhere Croyle has a friend with hunting land.

“Some people like playing golf. Some people like going to Vegas,” says Croyle, who tries to hunt every day. “I like waking up early and going out, throwing decoy spread and shooting ducks.”

He might be here for 30 minutes or five hours. He enjoys the peace and the company of his dog, Teal. At some point, he will head back and slip into his other life, as an NFL quarterback.

Some days, he and Kelli ride through the back roads of suburbs or try new restaurants. Other days, he smiles and shakes hands at community events, such as when Croyle was the centerpiece at the grand opening ceremony of an Independence hunting and fishing superstore last week.

“Those are my people,” Croyle says with a smile.

Cochise
03-08-2008, 11:07 PM
Most of his other people, his Chiefs teammates, will return to Kansas City gradually during the next few months. They will begin throwing and catching and loosening their muscles. Croyle will have been here, and he hopes coaches continue to notice.

His presence means something, but it does not mean everything. Edwards says he wants to see Croyle play an efficient game early next season. Making first downs and scoring in the red zone would prove Croyle can lead a team. With that, Edwards says, winning will come. Still, Croyle must prove soon that he can do more than hang around. It will be then that the Chiefs learn whether he is the future at quarterback. If they can afford to wait, that is.

Asked if he could definitively say Kansas City will not choose a passer with its first draft pick, Edwards paused for a moment and shook his head.

“No,” he says finally. “You’ll never say that. You can’t.”

Part of that is because the Chiefs, like all NFL teams, are playing poker — and revealing their intentions would be showing their hand. But the team just is not sold yet that Croyle is the long-term answer at its most visible position.

“I don’t think you could make a rational argument that he’s better than the bottom third of the league,” says Randy Cross, an NFL analyst who called a late-season Chiefs game for CBS. “He’s got some of the intangibles. But you can’t do it on potential. He’s not capable of carrying a team, but I don’t think there are many of those guys.”

And, says another CBS analyst with Kansas City experience, there is little time for Croyle to prove himself.

“He has a year,” says Rich Gannon, Chiefs quarterback from 1995 to 1998. “If they’re still not winning, you have to go get somebody else who will win.”

This season will be critical for Croyle. The Chiefs think enough of him that they likely will resist the temptation of drafting a quarterback in the first round. They likely will draft one in the later rounds, proof they don’t think so much of Croyle that they do not want insurance.

Until draft weekend, when the Chiefs show how they really feel about Croyle, the young quarterback will continue to be around. He will keep getting up early, hunting and heading to the stadium. He will show he is committed to the Chiefs — even if the Chiefs cannot say they are committed to him.

“He needs to have a fresh start,” Edwards says. “It’s up to him and us to be successful. He’s going to get an opportunity, and that’s all he wants. He wants to prove to himself he can be an NFL quarterback and win in this league. At the end of the day, he’s got to perform.

“He went through tough times last year playing. He didn’t anticipate that. He didn’t at all. He’s going to find out a lot about himself now.”

Bowser
03-08-2008, 11:12 PM
A decent read.

I'm not sure if I have any more faith in Croyle after reading that. I'm sure it's meant to be a fluff piece, but it just didn't come across that way for me.

Herm is right about one thing - Croyle has to win, and win in a hurry to get respect (not to mention have faith in himself that he can get it done at this level).

Bump
03-08-2008, 11:13 PM
gosh, I wonder what Rich Gannon has to say about Brodie

oh, excellent!

“He has a year,” says Rich Gannon, Chiefs quarterback from 1995 to 1998. “If they’re still not winning, you have to go get somebody else who will win.”

RedThat
03-08-2008, 11:34 PM
This whole Croyle has to win thing is a bunch of bologny.

Put Tom Brady on this team and he won't win. Even Manning.

This whole team sucks top to bottom. Saying your Quarterback has to win on a sucky team is no different than putting a whole ton of pressure on the kid?

What about the offensive line? they have to win to? what about the kickers? they have to win? The defense has to win? the special teams?

chiefs have to win as a team.

ChiefaRoo
03-09-2008, 12:01 AM
and then Brodie went out and dislocated his shoulder shooting his shotgun.

blueballs
03-09-2008, 12:05 AM
those ducks have numbers on them
the geese have whistles around their necks
the road signs are drunken fans

SNR
03-09-2008, 12:05 AM
This whole Croyle has to win thing is a bunch of bologny.

Put Tom Brady on this team and he won't win. Even Manning.

This whole team sucks top to bottom. Saying your Quarterback has to win on a sucky team is no different than putting a whole ton of pressure on the kid?

What about the offensive line? they have to win to? what about the kickers? they have to win? The defense has to win? the special teams?

chiefs have to win as a team.This is what I've been saying the whole time.

But still, the article does shed some light on the grim situation Brodie's involved in right now. He doesn't have a team that will win for him, and Kansas City isn't expected to do too well next year. At what point do we go for another option? It's really not smart to put all your eggs in one 3rd round draft pick.

He's gonna have to play like a champion next year. He doesn't have to turn into an all-pro or anything, but he's got to show that he's able to make more big plays than stupid ones. Otherwise the entire team will be torn apart between drafting another guy for the future or giving Croyle yet another year.

Chiefs Pantalones
03-09-2008, 12:20 AM
He wants to play well, he wants to stay, yada yada.

The important question is who is going to be our STARTING QB in 09, because it definitely won't be Croyle.

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 12:47 AM
I have no faith in Croyle, whatsoever. Nice fluff piece (He hunts! He chews! He wears cowboy boots! He's young and he's married! He's one of us!).

I swear, these writers from the Star should be freakin' shot. With the exception of Whitlock and Teicher, they always come across like starf*ckers.

Sam Mellinger is the worst.

SNR
03-09-2008, 12:53 AM
I have no faith in Croyle, whatsoever. Nice fluff piece (He hunts! He chews! He wears cowboy boots! He's young and he's married! He's one of us!).

I swear, these writers from the Star should be freakin' shot. With the exception of Whitlock and Teicher, they always come across like starf*ckers.

Sam Mellinger is the worst.Eh, as far as I'm concerned, Teicher can go play in the interstate too. He's nothing special.

Chiefs Pantalones
03-09-2008, 12:56 AM
Brodie is a lame duck starting QB.

rim shot!! ba-doom ching!

Mecca
03-09-2008, 01:38 AM
It's really gonna suck because next years QB's are very likely to be worse than this years...and if the draft broke odd and the Chiefs picked Matt Ryan I could see people here having a fit.

There's to much blind faith in Croyle with some.

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 01:43 AM
Eh, as far as I'm concerned, Teicher can go play in the interstate too. He's nothing special.

He's just sick of all the BS as much as we are, though his frustration is more public.

I don't think he's a poor writer, I just think he's tired of the same ol', same ol'.

Sound familiar?

Rausch
03-09-2008, 01:44 AM
It's really gonna suck because next years QB's are very likely to be worse than this years...and if the draft broke odd and the Chiefs picked Matt Ryan I could see people here having a fit.

There's to much blind faith in Croyle with some.

Oh no, next year will be great. The planet's collective panties will be bunched once 3 or 4 people start pulling for Chase in the draft...:evil:

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 01:46 AM
It's really gonna suck because next years QB's are very likely to be worse than this years...and if the draft broke odd and the Chiefs picked Matt Ryan I could see people here having a fit.

There's to much blind faith in Croyle with some.

If the Chiefs took Ryan over a DT (after Turk & Tank in rounds 2 and 3 last year), I wouldn't hate it. There are plenty of offensive lineman, receivers and cornerbacks that will available in later rounds.

And while I'm not sold on Ryan, I'd hate to see the Chiefs pass on him because of Croyle. Especially if he ends up having a solid (if not spectacular) career.

Rausch
03-09-2008, 01:47 AM
I have no faith in Croyle, whatsoever. Nice fluff piece (He hunts! He chews! He wears cowboy boots! He's young and he's married! He's one of us!).

It's nearly impossible to make a call on the guy. It's clearly too early considering how few starts he has. Hell, even with a full year starting how do you claim to know if a guy can or can't?

The other side of the coin is that he's got all the tools but can't seem to put it all together. I don't think anyone expected a winning record. One win wouldn't be too damned much to ask though either.

He did just enough for everyone to go "Meh. Inconclusive..."

ChiefsLV
03-09-2008, 01:53 AM
The important question is who is going to be our STARTING QB in 09, because it definitely won't be Croyle.

I'm glad you guys know what's going to happen. I would have spent all of next season rooting for the guy. What a waste that would have been.

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 01:55 AM
It's nearly impossible to make a call on the guy. It's clearly too early considering how few starts he has. Hell, even with a full year starting how do you claim to know if a guy can or can't?

The other side of the coin is that he's got all the tools but can't seem to put it all together. I don't think anyone expected a winning record. One win wouldn't be too damned much to ask though either.

He did just enough for everyone to go "Meh. Inconclusive..."

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4621978&postcount=83


<!-- message --> Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by jjchieffan http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=4621874#post4621874)
Talking out your ass again. Croyle MIGHT get hurt again. Tony Romo might get hurt too. There are 32 starting QB's in the NFL on opening day. By the end of the season, there are an additional 25-30 that have started due to injury. They aren't playing 2 hand touch out there. QB's get hurt. To say that Croyle is more likely to get hurt just because he got hurt in the past is just plain stupid. Just like you attributing LJ's ankle injury last year to him having over 400 carries the year before.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Dude, give it a break.

Brodie Croyle has shown a pre-disposition to injury.

Torn ACL in high school.

Torn ACL in college.

Injured in first NFL training camp.

Injured after only a few NFL starts.

The dude is fragile. No amount of "well, this guy could get hurt, too or that guy could get hurt as well" is going to erase Croyle's injury history.

Period. End of story. Adios.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 01:56 AM
The one thing we know about Croyle is if you look at him wrong it may cause an injury.

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 01:58 AM
The one thing we know about Croyle is if you look at him wrong it may cause an injury.

That's only if you think he's injury prone.

Hasn't he proved otherwise? :eek:

Mecca
03-09-2008, 01:59 AM
That's only if you think he's injury prone.

That's just so funny man, I don't care if they love the guy with every bit of passion they have, there is no way to dispute the fact that he is injury prone. Until he proves otherwise he is and will forever be a frail injury prone guy.

ChiefsLV
03-09-2008, 03:00 AM
It's really gonna suck because next years QB's are very likely to be worse than this years...and if the draft broke odd and the Chiefs picked Matt Ryan I could see people here having a fit.

There's to much blind faith in Croyle with some.

Some people think it would be wiser to spend the pick on a solid player in the hopes that Croyle could develop rather than throw another pick at a QB. If the Chiefs picked Ryan, I'd totally support him as would many of the people who haven't yet given up on Croyle. Why does it always have to be a "me vs. the world" attitude regarding Matt Ryan with you?

Rausch
03-09-2008, 03:03 AM
If the Chiefs took Ryan over a DT (after Turk & Tank in rounds 2 and 3 last year), I wouldn't hate it. There are plenty of offensive lineman, receivers and cornerbacks that will available in later rounds.

And while I'm not sold on Ryan, I'd hate to see the Chiefs pass on him because of Croyle. Especially if he ends up having a solid (if not spectacular) career.

I wouldn't tend to hate the pick either, but without a line I don't want the guy's back and confidence crushed. If Croyle goes down again (likely anyone will if we don't really put some emphasis there quick) he'd be the next to bat.

I'd prefer to build the lines first and work out from there. DT, OT, OG, whatever. Perhaps a late cut or a possible post-draft trade. We're almost assured to have another top 10 pick next year and if nothing else could trade for a young guy like Quinn. I wouldn't cry about that at all...

Mecca
03-09-2008, 03:04 AM
Some people think it would be wiser to spend the pick on a solid player in the hopes that Croyle could develop rather than throw another pick at a QB. If the Chiefs picked Ryan, I'd totally support him as would many of the people who haven't yet given up on Croyle. Why does it always have to be a "me vs. the world" attitude regarding Matt Ryan with you?

Um it's not, it was more a comment about the "Croyle is the guy no matter what" thinking I've seen expressed by some around here...

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 03:18 AM
I wouldn't tend to hate the pick either, but without a line I don't want the guy's back and confidence crushed. If Croyle goes down again (likely anyone will if we don't really put some emphasis there quick) he'd be the next to bat.

I'd prefer to build the lines first and work out from there. DT, OT, OG, whatever. Perhaps a late cut or a possible post-draft trade. We're almost assured to have another top 10 pick next year and if nothing else could trade for a young guy like Quinn. I wouldn't cry about that at all...

Well, we can all take solace in the fact that 2008 isn't 1983. There isn't likely to be a QB haul like that ever again and outside of Joe Flacco, I don't think the Chiefs would be getting into a Marino vs. Blackledge controversy. Ryan appears to be a serious QB.

But only time will tell. Until the Chief draft a true, legitimate franchise QB, the jury will be out.

Which to me, is reason f*cking enough to fire Carl "I suck at this" Peterson.

Come ON!!! Over 133 chances to draft a starting Quarterback???

133

philfree
03-09-2008, 05:20 AM
I've read and heard alot of NFL scouts and draft gurus say that Ryan is over valued as an NFL QB prospect and that he is not a top five talent. He's just the best QB in a very lousy QB class. So it seems to me that picking him with our fifth pick in the draft would be a mistake. I wouldn't mind taking a QB in any round after the first but there is just too much other talent availble for us to pick Ryan in the first round. That said I don't see anyone saying that Croyle is the guy. I see alot of people saying that they want to give him a chance to be the guy instead of drafting Ryan. If we draft Ryan with our first pick then he will be the guy as dictated by our investment however there is as much doubt about him being able to make it in the NFL as there is Croyle. AS far as being "injury prone" I hate that phrase. I didn't see the plays where he tore his ACL's but I do know that at Alabama he had just about as bad of an O line there as he has here. I don't think he just dropped back planted his foot and blew his knee up. More then likely someone blew his knee up for him though I really don't know. Preist Holmes had more then one knee injury before he got to the Chiefs but after he got here he was a star. So you just don't really know. As far as last year is concerned Croyle got hit again and again and again and he didn't have any terrible injuries. And the one game he was hurt early on and still played the whole game. To me that says he's pretty tough. I'm rooting for the guy not because he duck hunts and chews(I think chewing is disgusting!) but because he gets up way early and does something besides sip martini's and then he goes to work. He's an underdog at this point and I tend to root for underdogs. That don't mean I think he's the guy it means I want him to succeed because he has the work ethic(He has the tools as well.) even though he's kinda behind the eight ball. All that said if we draft Ryan I'll be rooting just as much for him as I am for Croyle.

PhilFree:arrow:

RedThat
03-09-2008, 07:45 AM
This is what I've been saying the whole time.

But still, the article does shed some light on the grim situation Brodie's involved in right now. He doesn't have a team that will win for him, and Kansas City isn't expected to do too well next year. At what point do we go for another option? It's really not smart to put all your eggs in one 3rd round draft pick.

He's gonna have to play like a champion next year. He doesn't have to turn into an all-pro or anything, but he's got to show that he's able to make more big plays than stupid ones. Otherwise the entire team will be torn apart between drafting another guy for the future or giving Croyle yet another year.

Exactly. You're right, he doesn't have a team that can win for him. And a good coaching staff either.

I honestly believe Gonzo, Bowe, and LJ are good enough weapons for a young QB. But he just doesn't have the Offensive line to protect him.

Not only this, but these crop of coaches aren't offense whatsoever. Im afraid he won't grow with this coaching staff. This coaching in regards to offense is atrocious, the whole thing, the way they run it, and coach it from top to bottom, Im afraid that's whats gonna limit what Brodie can do. and then when I hear comments Croyle has to win. It ain't fair to Brodie. Put most young QB's in a tough situation like that, and they won't succeed I tell you. That's why Im not buying this "Brodie has to win crap."

As far relying on a 3rd round pick to be QBOTF, that doesn't bother me one bit. In fact, I think it what the Chiefs should do. Go young, and develop your own QB. Who are we honestly gonna go with? Huard? thigpen? Lol

RedThat
03-09-2008, 07:49 AM
I have no faith in Croyle, whatsoever. Nice fluff piece (He hunts! He chews! He wears cowboy boots! He's young and he's married! He's one of us!).

I swear, these writers from the Star should be freakin' shot. With the exception of Whitlock and Teicher, they always come across like starf*ckers.

Sam Mellinger is the worst.

I believe in Croyle. I don't believe in the coaching staff. what else more can we ask for? the kid wants to be here, and has the determination, and drive. He is a firey kid with passion. That's great, only if he had a coaching staff that can tutor him properly:banghead:

Coogs
03-09-2008, 08:33 AM
The other side of the coin is that he's got all the tools but can't seem to put it all together. I don't think anyone expected a winning record. One win wouldn't be too damned much to ask though either.


He put us in position to win on two or three occasions. Moved us right down the field, and took the lead, or moved us down the field and had us in position to score. And either the FG kicker, the defense, or Solare (at Indy) didn't allow the team to get the team in the victory column.

tiptap
03-09-2008, 08:48 AM
The line fellows the line. If the offensive line improves for the running game. And enough for a 3 or 5 step drop to keep the defenses honest, then Croyle will be ok. What I wanted to hear from the piece is that he is putting on the lbs. and he is hitting the weights to bulk up 5 to 10 lbs. That is what I wanted to hear. Because he is going to have to take the hits.

Baby Lee
03-09-2008, 09:11 AM
I don't know if Croyle will eventually shine here, but as a Chiefs fan, I know in my bones that if he leaves here, it'll probably play out like Young leaving Tampa Bay.

BigMeatballDave
03-09-2008, 09:20 AM
I wonder how long Herm is willing to go with Croyle? If he cannot stay healthy this season, he should be done.

htismaqe
03-09-2008, 10:03 AM
He put us in position to win on two or three occasions. Moved us right down the field, and took the lead, or moved us down the field and had us in position to score. And either the FG kicker, the defense, or Solare (at Indy) didn't allow the team to get the team in the victory column.

QFT

alanm
03-09-2008, 10:14 AM
? I didn't have no trouble reading it. At least we know he's dedicated and is working to improve when most of the other players are taking it easy. All the young Chiefs(vets too) need to read this article and get there ass's back to KC and go to work. They helped lose those games so they too have alot to prove. You know we all want our QB to be successful because that means our team is successful but after reading that it makes me root for Croyle for him.

PhilFree:arrow:
I think that was the point of the whole article.

philfree
03-09-2008, 10:16 AM
He put us in position to win on two or three occasions. Moved us right down the field, and took the lead, or moved us down the field and had us in position to score. And either the FG kicker, the defense, or Solare (at Indy) didn't allow the team to get the team in the victory column.

This true.


PhilFree:arrow:

alanm
03-09-2008, 10:20 AM
That's just so funny man, I don't care if they love the guy with every bit of passion they have, there is no way to dispute the fact that he is injury prone. Until he proves otherwise he is and will forever be a frail injury prone guy.
I seem to recall everyone saying the same about Green when we first got him and then he went out and ripped off 5 yrs.

Coach
03-09-2008, 10:29 AM
Um it's not, it was more a comment about the "Croyle is the guy no matter what" thinking I've seen expressed by some around here...

Considering that the Chiefs spent nearly 3 years on him, yeah it's a safe bet to say that he's the guy for this year, one way or another. And if he bombs out this year, then obviously they will either trade for a QB or draft another QB.

Easy 6
03-09-2008, 10:34 AM
He put us in position to win on two or three occasions. Moved us right down the field, and took the lead, or moved us down the field and had us in position to score. And either the FG kicker, the defense, or Solare (at Indy) didn't allow the team to get the team in the victory column.

This bears repeating.

Not one person here knows what he can really do yet...last years O was barely NFL caliber, it was his 1st action & throw in Solaris caveman calls for good measure.

MO is that he'll deliver & make the doubters eat dirt...yeah, i could be wrong...but i doubt it.

We'll see...

xbarretx
03-09-2008, 10:47 AM
This whole Croyle has to win thing is a bunch of bologny.

Put Tom Brady on this team and he won't win. Even Manning.

This whole team sucks top to bottom. Saying your Quarterback has to win on a sucky team is no different than putting a whole ton of pressure on the kid?

What about the offensive line? they have to win to? what about the kickers? they have to win? The defense has to win? the special teams?

chiefs have to win as a team.

QFT :clap:

stonedstooge
03-09-2008, 11:19 AM
I wish Herm would just keep his mouth shut. The more he speaks, the more his ignorance shows. He was the one to say that Croyle was the man. Now he tells him his team will have no faith in him until he wins? What about their faith in the head coach when the team doesn't win. Is there some responsibility there? Does the team not listen to him (Herm) since his streak of 9 straight losses. Croyle's is the reason for those losses? I wonder how Croyle could do with a real coach. Perhaps Herm should take some of his own advice he gave to Croyle. Keep his own mouth shut.

milkman
03-09-2008, 11:22 AM
I wish Herm would just keep his mouth shut. The more he speaks, the more his ignorance shows. He was the one to say that Croyle was the man. Now he tells him his team will have no faith in him until he wins? What about their faith in the head coach when the team doesn't win. Is there some responsibility there? Does the team not listen to him (Herm) since his streak of 9 straight losses. Croyle's is the reason for those losses? I wonder how Croyle could do with a real coach. Perhaps Herm should take some of his own advice he gave to Croyle. Keep his own mouth shut.

Herman ****ing Edwards is a moron, and I fear everytime he opens his mouth, we all lose IQ points.

beach tribe
03-09-2008, 11:24 AM
That was "the" Dick Curl who was quoted.

I'm pulling so fukin hard for Croyle.

Brock
03-09-2008, 11:30 AM
Quarterbacks with good offensive lines still get hit a lot. You may want to go ahead and prepare for the inevitable.

Bowser
03-09-2008, 11:31 AM
That was "the" Dick Curl who was quoted.

I'm pulling so fukin hard for Croyle.


To paraphrase Brett Favre -

"Way to go, Brodie! Way to overcome your coaching!"

Dylan
03-09-2008, 11:47 AM
Originally Posted by RedBull
This whole Croyle has to win thing is a bunch of bologny.

Put Tom Brady on this team and he won't win. Even Manning.

This whole team sucks top to bottom. Saying your Quarterback has to win on a sucky team is no different than putting a whole ton of pressure on the kid?

What about the offensive line? they have to win to? what about the kickers? they have to win? The defense has to win? the special teams?

chiefs have to win as a team.
Damn right. I think it's unfair to compare Croyle to Pennington. Penny had a long of time to learn. Croyle did not.

Chad Pennington was drafted in 2000 draft as the future quarterback of the Jets under Bill Parcells and Al Groh --

In Herm' second season with the Jets, he chose 37 years old Vinny Testaverdi as their starter. Testaverde had a 55.6% rating, 21 TDs, 25 INT, under Groh.

Pennington had his first start in 2002, after Testaverdi went down with an lengthly injury. By then, Pennington was very good at reading defenses. But, with a horrible line that was never upgraded, he managed to stay healthy one season, Pennington had back to back rotator cuff surgery, broken wrist plus other injuries that kept him sidelined. Where's Deminision2112?

Lazy ass sports writer should had included that in his article.

Croyle has a few games under his belt. The sad part -- This rookie knows that he's one throw away from getting killed.

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2008-02/35192605.jpg

Dylan
03-09-2008, 12:13 PM
Talking about the Patriots -- I'm wondering if Belicheck will be around to coach this season, or if Goodell will have a job. .... There's a team of investigative reporters on this story and it's not about to go away. The Government has the lead...

The New York Times, Sunday March 9, 2008

Specter Raises New Questions on Spying, by Greg Bishop
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/sports/football/09nfl.html?ref=football

Lawyers for the league and Walsh have exchanged proposals the past few weeks.

“Any objective or accurate reading of the correspondence would show the N.F.L. is trying to discourage Walsh from coming forward,” Specter said. “Especially the requirement in the letter, where the N.F.L. calls for the destruction of whatever Walsh turns over without any provision for me or anyone else to see it.”

beach tribe
03-09-2008, 12:15 PM
Quarterbacks with good offensive lines still get hit a lot. You may want to go ahead and prepare for the inevitable.
How? by drafting future bust Matt Ryan? No thanks.

Brock
03-09-2008, 12:20 PM
How? by drafting future bust Matt Ryan? No thanks.

No, you're right. Let's just do nothing, and that way we can watch Damon Huard some more this season.

Dylan
03-09-2008, 12:23 PM
The New York Times: Guards, and Their Paychecks, Are Finally Standing Out

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/sports/football/09guards.html?_r=1&ref=football&oref=slogin

Rausch
03-09-2008, 12:23 PM
No, you're right. Let's just do nothing, and that way we can watch Damon Huard some more this season.

If 0dd T0dd is the best FA QB out there it's a not a good year to try and find a servicable b/u. Odds are we can't get anyone who can play better than Croyle this season...

beach tribe
03-09-2008, 12:24 PM
No, you're right. Let's just do nothing, and that way we can watch Damon Huard some more this season.

Or we can watch MR get David Carred instead of J.Long protecting Brodie's blind side, or JA getting 18, and Tamba getting 12 sacks because Ellis is splitting defenders.

Brock
03-09-2008, 12:35 PM
Or we can watch MR get David Carred instead of J.Long protecting Brodie's blind side, or JA getting 18, and Tamba getting 12 sacks because Ellis is splitting defenders.

Brodie's blind side wasn't the problem. You guys really need to quit trying to rewrite history, and you're not going to get Jake Long anyway.

milkman
03-09-2008, 12:38 PM
Or we can watch MR get David Carred instead of J.Long protecting Brodie's blind side, or JA getting 18, and Tamba getting 12 sacks because Ellis is splitting defenders.

I really expect Jake Long as a pass protector at LT to be every bit as good as Jordan Black.

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 12:47 PM
I believe in Croyle. I don't believe in the coaching staff. what else more can we ask for? the kid wants to be here, and has the determination, and drive. He is a firey kid with passion. That's great, only if he had a coaching staff that can tutor him properly:banghead:

I don't believe in Croyle. So far, he's shown me (and the rest of the NFL) absolutely nothing. No wins. Two injury plagued seasons. A strong arm coupled with poor decision making.

Is there anyone here than honestly thinks that Croyle would be the starter for any other team in the NFL right now, heading into the 2008 season.

Seriously?

beach tribe
03-09-2008, 12:48 PM
I really expect Jake Long as a pass protector at LT to be every bit as good as Jordan Black.

Allright, let's not do this again........ahhh fuk it..........Why? because he gave up one sack to VERNON GHOLSTON?

Brock
03-09-2008, 12:49 PM
I don't believe in Croyle. So far, he's shown me (and the rest of the NFL) absolutely nothing. No wins. Two injury plagued seasons. A strong arm coupled with poor decision making.

Is there anyone here than honestly thinks that Croyle would be the starter for any other team in the NFL right now, heading into the 2008 season. Seriously?

Hey, I'm perfectly fine with the idea of giving Croyle all of this season to show what he has. I just think it's insane to have nothing behind him but some old journeyman and some other guy nobody's ever heard of. Because frankly, I doubt Croyle makes it 4 games.

jjchieffan
03-09-2008, 12:52 PM
I really expect Jake Long as a pass protector at LT to be every bit as good as Jordan Black.

Ouch! Now that is a slam. Why do you think that? I have heard several say that he is not good enough to be worth the number 5 pick, but to put him on the level of Jordan Black??? Come on now.

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 12:54 PM
Hey, I'm perfectly fine with the idea of giving Croyle all of this season to show what he has. I just think it's insane to have nothing behind him but some old journeyman and some other guy nobody's ever heard of. Because frankly, I doubt Croyle makes it 4 games.

I'm fine with it, too but if Matt Ryan is sitting there at the #5 pick (and the other players the Chiefs covet are gone) or if Joe Flacco's sitting there at pick #36, I think the Chiefs have to make the move.

You said it best: Croyle probably won't even make it 4 games.

Knowing that, what's the next move?

beach tribe
03-09-2008, 12:55 PM
Hey, I'm perfectly fine with the idea of giving Croyle all of this season to show what he has. I just think it's insane to have nothing behind him but some old journeyman and some other guy nobody's ever heard of. Because frankly, I doubt Croyle makes it 4 games.

I agree with you, but the options at our first pick this year are too valuable to overlook. Brodie MIGHT be good, and he may not get hurt. Matt Ryan MIGHT be good. The Longs, Gholston, Ellis, and Dorsey, are all players who will contribute to this team Imediately, and for years to come. We need a SURE FIRE PICK. Matt Ryan is not that pick.

Brock
03-09-2008, 12:57 PM
I agree with you, but the options at our first pick this year are too valuable to overlook. Brodie MIGHT be good, and he may not get hurt. Matt Ryan MIGHT be good. The Longs, Gholston, Ellis, and Dorsey, are all players who will contribute to this team Imediately, and for years to come. We need a SURE FIRE PICK. Matt Ryan is not that pick.

I'm not necessarily even talking about Matt Ryan.

beach tribe
03-09-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm fine with it, too but if Matt Ryan is sitting there at the #5 pick (and the other players the Chiefs covet are gone) or if Joe Flacco's sitting there at pick #36, I think the Chiefs have to make the move.

You said it best: Croyle probably won't even make it 4 games.

Knowing that, what's the next move?

One of those players will be available.......I hope.

If not I would trade the pick IF possible. Then grab Flacco, or Henne(sp?). I see them as being the best pros of the bunch.

beach tribe
03-09-2008, 12:59 PM
I'm not necessarily even talking about Matt Ryan.

Cool. I believe we need another QB as well. Just not Ryan with that pick.

milkman
03-09-2008, 01:13 PM
Ouch! Now that is a slam. Why do you think that? I have heard several say that he is not good enough to be worth the number 5 pick, but to put him on the level of Jordan Black??? Come on now.

Allright, let's not do this again........ahhh fuk it..........Why? because he gave up one sack to VERNON GHOLSTON?

Has nothing to do with his college production.

It has everything to do with his feet.

He just isn't fluid or graceful.

When he sets up in pass protect his feet are awkward.

Rausch
03-09-2008, 01:21 PM
One of those players will be available.......I hope.

If not I would trade the pick IF possible. Then grab Flacco, or Henne(sp?). I see them as being the best pros of the bunch.

I've been wanting to trade down anyway. If we could get an extra 2nd we could use one on a QB and still get some help on the line.

BigMeatballDave
03-09-2008, 02:40 PM
How? by drafting future bust Matt Ryan? No thanks.I support Brodie about as much as you, but not drafting a possible franchise QB because we have Brodie Croyle, is the reason this organization sucks out loud. I hope they take a long hard look at Ryan. Having 2 young promising QBs is rarely a bad thing. Ask Cleveland how much they hate having Anderson and Quinn...

htismaqe
03-09-2008, 03:18 PM
I support Brodie about as much as you, but not drafting a possible franchise QB because we have Brodie Croyle, is the reason this organization sucks out loud. I hope they take a long hard look at Ryan. Having 2 young promising QBs is rarely a bad thing. Ask Cleveland how much they hate having Anderson and Quinn...

Taking a "possible" franchise QB with the 5th pick in the draft is the surest way to guarantee we suck for years.

Cleveland took Quinn at the end of Round 1, not the beginning.

If you want to bill Brohm or Flacco as a "possible" franchise QB then so be it. But drafting Ryan with our 1st pick would be a crying shame.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-09-2008, 03:26 PM
Goddammit, you just don't trade down from #5 when there are only 6 or 7 elite players in this draft. It just shouldn't be done. As much as this team needs help everywhere, you can't pass up the opportunity to draft someone like Dorsey, Ellis, or Gholston.

BigMeatballDave
03-09-2008, 03:32 PM
Taking a "possible" franchise QB with the 5th pick in the draft is the surest way to guarantee we suck for years.

Cleveland took Quinn at the end of Round 1, not the beginning.

If you want to bill Brohm or Flacco as a "possible" franchise QB then so be it. But drafting Ryan with our 1st pick would be a crying shame.I guess I am missing your point. I say 'possible' because no one knows. He may prove to be a bust. Cleveland was lucky to get Quinn. Everyone under the Sun thought Miami was gonna take him. FWIW, my 1st choice at 5 would be Ellis.

RustShack
03-09-2008, 03:40 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing Croyle playing with him and Bowe both having some starting experience under thier belts. I think it will be hard for the line not to be improved, Gailey should be able to call some better players and Herm shouldn't have a leash on him. Also Croyle will now have a chance to play with the Chiefs main weapon this year, Larry Johnson. I don't think he did terrible concidering what situation he was in last year, and it should be hard for him not to improve under Gailey. I'm not saying he is the future, but there shouldn't be any excuses next year for him. I just hope he stayes healthy, that might be the hardest thing for him to prove.

Sure-Oz
03-09-2008, 04:06 PM
I wonder how long Herm is willing to go with Croyle? If he cannot stay healthy this season, he should be done.

I see no reason for croyle not to start every game this year unless he gets hurt. Even if he sucks its big time, he should play the year out...

We aren't going anywhere near 9 wins this year

htismaqe
03-09-2008, 04:27 PM
I guess I am missing your point. I say 'possible' because no one knows. He may prove to be a bust. Cleveland was lucky to get Quinn. Everyone under the Sun thought Miami was gonna take him. FWIW, my 1st choice at 5 would be Ellis.

Quinn fell because Quinn had too many question marks.

Matt Ryan is no different.

There's always a possibility that any player will be a bust. But some players have MORE possibility than others. Matt Ryan is one of those players. The only reason he's being talked about as a top 5 pick is because this year's QB class just isn't very good.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 04:32 PM
Quinn fell because Quinn had too many question marks.

Matt Ryan is no different.

There's always a possibility that any player will be a bust. But some players have MORE possibility than others. Matt Ryan is one of those players. The only reason he's being talked about as a top 5 pick is because this year's QB class just isn't very good.

What will people say about next years QB class, have you taken a look at it?

Sure-Oz
03-09-2008, 04:34 PM
Joe Flacco ftw

Mecca
03-09-2008, 04:37 PM
Joe Flacco ftw

I think that guy has huge red flags, maybe it's just me but there are some flags that pop up right away.

Sure-Oz
03-09-2008, 04:39 PM
I think that guy has huge red flags, maybe it's just me but there are some flags that pop up right away.

What are those flags? heard he has a hell of an arm and is big, besides that i don't know much...

Mecca
03-09-2008, 04:43 PM
What are those flags? heard he has a hell of an arm and is big, besides that i don't know much...

Yea he has a strong arm but that isn't a big deal to me aslong as they don't have girl arms like Pennington. There's to many Kyle Bollers around for me to get to excited that a guy can throw it 70 yards...

Anyway, he plays a serious lack of competition, he's very gangly looking, he needs to gain weight. He also transferred out of Pittsburgh because he couldn't beat out their other QB's one of which was undrafted Tyler Palko....

His offense isn't exactly pro style, he also needs tweaks to his mechanics and footwork.

Sure-Oz
03-09-2008, 04:45 PM
Yea he has a strong arm but that isn't a big deal to me aslong as they don't have girl arms like Pennington. There's to many Kyle Bollers around for me to get to excited that a guy can throw it 70 yards...

Anyway, he plays a serious lack of competition, he's very gangly looking, he needs to gain weight. He also transferred out of Pittsburgh because he couldn't beat out their other QB's one of which was undrafted Tyler Palko....

His offense isn't exactly pro style, he also needs tweaks to his mechanics and footwork.

What QB's should the chiefs look at in your opinion, since we probably won't draft 1 in the 1st round...

Mecca
03-09-2008, 04:48 PM
I'd look at Brohm if he was available in the 2nd......I doubt he will be so then I likely wouldn't look at QB's in the 2nd because I'm not a huge fan of Flacco Henne or Booty. I'd look at Woodson in the 3rd because his physical talent is 1st round but he needs coaching.

Also for Flacco if you want a comparison, think anorexic less polished Drew Bledsoe.

htismaqe
03-09-2008, 04:50 PM
What will people say about next years QB class, have you taken a look at it?

Next year's QB class, if Tebow and Stafford stay in school, might be one of the worst ever.

And you should know better than to bring it up.

Advocating drafting a player at #5 that doesn't deserve to be drafted at #5, in whole or in part because his position is even weaker next year, is the ANTITHESIS of everything you preach here.

htismaqe
03-09-2008, 04:51 PM
I'd look at Brohm if he was available in the 2nd......I doubt he will be so then I likely wouldn't look at QB's in the 2nd because I'm not a huge fan of Flacco Henne or Booty. I'd look at Woodson in the 3rd because his physical talent is 1st round but he needs coaching.

Also for Flacco if you want a comparison, think anorexic less polished Drew Bledsoe.

If Woodson falls to our pick in the 3rd, we better be all over that.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 04:52 PM
Next year's QB class, if Tebow and Stafford stay in school, might be one of the worst ever.

And you should know better than to bring it up.

Advocating drafting a player at #5 that doesn't deserve to be drafted at #5, in whole or in part because his position is even weaker next year, is the ANTITHESIS of everything you preach here.

I didn't say to do it, I was just wanting to make sure you wouldn't say next years guys would be better.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 04:53 PM
If Woodson falls to our pick in the 3rd, we better be all over that.

I think that's actually possible, it's a high 3rd and he'll probably be the 5th or 6th QB going now since teams put so much in workouts...

I'm gonna crack up when Booty goes before him....

Deberg_1990
03-09-2008, 04:57 PM
If Woodson falls to our pick in the 3rd, we better be all over that.


Dont worry, CP will probably draft some kid out of Wyoming State that nobodys ever heard of.

htismaqe
03-09-2008, 04:57 PM
I didn't say to do it, I was just wanting to make sure you wouldn't say next years guys would be better.

If people are looking for the high 1st-round franchise QB, they're going to be disappointed.

There just aren't any out there right now. Of the top 2 guys that MIGHT be in next year's draft, the "stud" isn't exactly a prototypical NFL QB, and the other is alot like Matt Ryan.

The Chiefs really have 2 choices - hope that Croyle pans out, or hit on a lower-round QB. Drafting a guy like Woodson at the top of the 3rd would be a start.

htismaqe
03-09-2008, 04:58 PM
Dont worry, CP will probably draft some kid out of Wyoming State that nobodys ever heard of.

That actually might not be a bad thing, because most of the BCS conference QB's coming out just aren't that good...

RedThat
03-09-2008, 05:11 PM
I don't believe in Croyle. So far, he's shown me (and the rest of the NFL) absolutely nothing. No wins. Two injury plagued seasons. A strong arm coupled with poor decision making.

Is there anyone here than honestly thinks that Croyle would be the starter for any other team in the NFL right now, heading into the 2008 season.

Seriously?

I disagree. Croyle has some really good attributes as a quarterback.

I think it's unfair to judge a guy based on wins. Injuries happen, it's football it's a cruel game, and to judge a player based on that too is also unfair.

Good solid quarterbacks have suffered losing seasons. Take Troy Aikman for example, He played on a 1-15 team. Would it be fair to say he can't win when that team around him is crap? Absolutely not. He also was injury prone but had a great line in front of him.

I wouldn't give up on Croyle yet, it's way too early for that..He played sparingly this season. He needs a full season and a better cast around him. the offensive line is crap, he doesn't have time to throw the football. Give him an offensive line. This team needs lineman, and no offense but Welbourne, Wiegman, Turley, and Terry don't cut it. Bowe, gonzalez, and LJ are good weapons.

But, I have no confidence in this system and what Herm wants to do with the offense. It is very highschoolish, and I think will limit Croyles growth.

If the Chiefs had better coaches and better offensive system I bet he would grow as a quaterback. A lot of his mistakes are mechanical, and his poor throws had to do with not much time to throw the football.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 05:16 PM
The worst thing that happens would be for the Chiefs to pick high these years there are no QB's for Croyle to suck and not find another QB and then the years there are QB's the Chiefs have enough talent to win 8 games.

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 05:18 PM
I disagree. Croyle has some really good attributes as a quarterback.

I think it's unfair to judge a guy based on wins. Injuries happen, it's football it's a cruel game, and to judge a player based on that too is also unfair.

Good solid quarterbacks have suffered losing seasons. Take Troy Aikman for example, He played on a 1-15 team. Would it be fair to say he can't win when that team around him is crap? Absolutely not. He also was injury prone but had a great line in front of him.

I wouldn't give up on Croyle yet, it's way too early for that..He played sparingly this season. He needs a full season and a better cast around him. the offensive line is crap, he doesn't have time to throw the football. Give him an offensive line. This team needs lineman, and no offense but Welbourne, Wiegman, Turley, and Terry don't cut it. Bowe, gonzalez, and LJ are good weapons.

But, I have no confidence in this system and what Herm wants to do with the offense. It is very highschoolish, and I think will limit Croyles growth.

If the Chiefs had better coaches and better offensive system I bet he would grow as a quaterback. A lot of his mistakes are mechanical, and his poor throws had to do with not much time to throw the football.

Sorry, I'm not seeing it.

The Troy Aikman parallel isn't valid. Not only was Aikmen drafted number one overall after an impressive college career at UCLA, he quickly turned his team's fortunes around. I never have considered Aikman injury prone (he suffered from concussion late in his career but that doesn't make him injury prone - anyone who gets their head repeated slammed to the ground is going to have issues) yet Croyle's been injured at every level of football: high school, college and now the NFL. THAT is injury prone.

In addition, Croyle has shown time and again that not only is he fragile, he makes dumb bone-headed mistakes.

Do you seriously think he'd be the starter going into the 2008 season for any other NFL team?

I think not.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 05:19 PM
Sorry, I'm not seeing it.

The Troy Aikman parallel isn't valid. Not only was Aikmen drafted number one overall after an impressive college career at UCLA, he quickly turned his team's fortunes around. I never have considered Aikman injury prone (he suffered from concussion late in his career but that doesn't make him injury prone - anyone who gets their head repeated slammed to the ground is going to have issues) yet Croyle's been injured at every level of football: high school, college and now the NFL. THAT is injury prone.

In addition, Croyle has shown time and again that not only is he fragile, he makes dumb bone-headed mistakes.

Do you seriously think he'd be the starter going into the 2008 season for any other NFL team?

I think not.

Maybe Minnesota.....but that's about it.

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 05:25 PM
Maybe Minnesota.....but that's about it.

And they seem to be very committed to Tavaris Jackson.

BigMeatballDave
03-09-2008, 05:36 PM
Sorry, I'm not seeing it.

The Troy Aikman parallel isn't valid. Not only was Aikmen drafted number one overall after an impressive college career at UCLA, he quickly turned his team's fortunes around. I never have considered Aikman injury prone (he suffered from concussion late in his career but that doesn't make him injury prone - anyone who gets their head repeated slammed to the ground is going to have issues) yet Croyle's been injured at every level of football: high school, college and now the NFL. THAT is injury prone.

In addition, Croyle has shown time and again that not only is he fragile, he makes dumb bone-headed mistakes.

Do you seriously think he'd be the starter going into the 2008 season for any other NFL team?

I think not.6 games. Are you serious? I'll give you the fact that he seems fragile. Making dumb mistakes is what young QBs do. I'm willing to give him this season. He needs to stay healthy. Thats #1.

beach tribe
03-09-2008, 05:47 PM
2942 yrds 15tds 10ints. These are Ryan's stats from 2006.
Would he be drafted in the first rnd with these #s? NO.
Please stop acting like you know what next years QB class is going to look like before they ever take a snap of their final college season.
Will it be strong. Probably about as strong as this one, but who knows. I do know this. Someone will be played up, and taken high in the draft, just like Ryan, because QB is the only position where people generally use high picks on players that are not equals with the players drafted around them at other positions. Ryan, for example, is not on the level of a Dorsey, or Ellis, but because he plays QB, a very important position, he will be drafted somewhere close to them. Smart teams avoid this.

DaneMcCloud
03-09-2008, 05:48 PM
6 games. Are you serious? I'll give you the fact that he seems fragile. Making dumb mistakes is what young QBs do. I'm willing to give him this season. He needs to stay healthy. Thats #1.

Yes, Dave, the point I've made throughout this thread was specifically directed at his injuries. Red Bull's the one who made the comparison to Aikman, which I refuted.

Again:

High School: Torn ACL

College: Torn ACL

NFL Season One: Missed most of training camp. Injured

NFL Season Two: Injured during the season.

The guy is clearly injury prone. I think he will be considered to be injury prone until he makes it through a single NFL season without being injured. If he can do that, then we can move on to the more important question which is this:

Can he play?

Mecca
03-09-2008, 05:53 PM
2942 yrds 15tds 10ints. These are Ryan's stats from 2006.
Would he be drafted in the first rnd with these #s? NO.
Please stop acting like you know what next years QB class is going to look like before they ever take a snap of their final college season.
Will it be strong. Probably about as strong as this one, but who knows. I do know this. Someone will be played up, and taken high in the draft, just like Ryan, because QB is the only position where people generally use high picks on players that are not equals with the players drafted around them at other positions. Ryan, for example, is not on the level of a Dorsey, or Ellis, but because he plays QB, a very important position, he will be drafted somewhere close to them. Smart teams avoid this.

Numbers really have nothing to do with draft status or Colt Brennan would be the greatest prospect that ever lived...and Ryan was considered a 1st rounder last year aswell....him and Quinn would have battled out over #2.

beach tribe
03-09-2008, 06:08 PM
Numbers really have nothing to do with draft status or Colt Brennan would be the greatest prospect that ever lived...
Timmy Chang anyone?

and Ryan was considered a 1st rounder last year aswell....him and Quinn would have battled out over #2.
Can't find anything on it. Did he ever consider coming out?

TRR
03-09-2008, 09:22 PM
It all comes down to the talent surrounding Brodie Croyle. Everyone thought Trent Green was the worst QB in KC history when he first arrived. Then they got some better receivers around him, and built the offensive line up, and Trent went down as one of the greatest QB's in Chiefs history.

Brodie Croyle has more talent and athletic ability than Green ever had. But Green had those intangibles that aren't in everyone. He also played with one of the greatest O Line's of all time. If KC can get Croyle a line 80% as good as Green's line, I have no doubt that Croyle WILL succeed.

evolve27
03-09-2008, 09:24 PM
It all comes down to the talent surrounding Brodie Croyle.



You've been listening to Marshall Faulk too much.

Mecca
03-09-2008, 09:27 PM
I want someone to show me what Croyle has to make you think he will be successful, that's it.

And don't say he has a strong arm either because while being a nice attribute it means nothing to being overly successful....as of now Croyle has done nothing to not make me think he's Kyle Boller.

Tribal Warfare
03-09-2008, 09:29 PM
I want someone to show me what Croyle has to make you think he will be successful, that's it.





The id can make good reads, but the problem is he forces stuff too much (Like Favre did when he started because of his arm strength). He's a natural leader, and is cool and calm under pressure

Rausch
03-09-2008, 09:32 PM
It all comes down to the talent surrounding Brodie Croyle. Everyone thought Trent Green was the worst QB in KC history when he first arrived. Then they got some better receivers around him, and built the offensive line up, and Trent went down as one of the greatest QB's in Chiefs history.

Trent's problem was the knee still needed work. He never felt comfortable planting and throwing. He'd throw off his back foot and the ball ended up short.

Once he had the surgery (after his first year in KC) he was amazing. I think it had as much to do with his mind/health as it did getting some targets.

There are a number of factors that should help Croyle this year. He'll have a legit OC. He'll have LJ back and teams will load up to stop him. He'll have a FO that knows the line needs help.

He'll also have some experience starting and some continuity with Bowe and Gonzo...

blueballs
03-09-2008, 11:33 PM
I wish they would have waited till spring to post this article
I really wanted to hear about the jug fishing

alanm
03-09-2008, 11:43 PM
Dont worry, CP will probably draft some kid out of Wyoming State that nobodys ever heard of.
Which would be all the more surprising since there is no Wyoming St. :eek:

alanm
03-09-2008, 11:49 PM
I want someone to show me what Croyle has to make you think he will be successful, that's it.

And don't say he has a strong arm either because while being a nice attribute it means nothing to being overly successful....as of now Croyle has done nothing to not make me think he's Kyle Boller.
He seems to possess that certain unidentifiable quality that all good QB's have. :D

Rausch
03-09-2008, 11:52 PM
He seems to possess that certain unidentifiable quality that all good QB's have. :D

Wins?

King_Chief_Fan
03-10-2008, 07:01 AM
Trent's problem was the knee still needed work. He never felt comfortable planting and throwing. He'd throw off his back foot and the ball ended up short.

Once he had the surgery (after his first year in KC) he was amazing. I think it had as much to do with his mind/health as it did getting some targets.

There are a number of factors that should help Croyle this year. He'll have a legit OC. He'll have LJ back and teams will load up to stop him. He'll have a FO that knows the line needs help.

He'll also have some experience starting and some continuity with Bowe and Gonzo...

The front office may know he needs help on the line. But where is that help? You aren't going to get that help from rookies in the draft and the backups, well they are backups. LJ will not be much help if the O line is not improved. I see doomsday for Croyle. To bad, because we won't know how much of this was his undoing or the fact Curl is his coach and the oline can't protect him.

htismaqe
03-10-2008, 08:45 AM
I want someone to show me what Croyle has to make you think he will be successful, that's it.

And don't say he has a strong arm either because while being a nice attribute it means nothing to being overly successful....as of now Croyle has done nothing to not make me think he's Kyle Boller.

He has everything he needs to be successful, especially the mental aspect. Yeah, he's gonna make some bad decisions - that's part of his makeup. But he's got the attitude to make it work. He's NOT Kyle Boller, that's ridiculous.

His problem is that he can't stay healthy, plain and simple.

Chiefnj2
03-10-2008, 09:11 AM
I guess it's nice he stuck around. It would be better if Gonzalez and Bowe and Webb stuck around also to work with him.

Reerun_KC
03-10-2008, 09:15 AM
He has everything he needs to be successful, especially the mental aspect. Yeah, he's gonna make some bad decisions - that's part of his makeup. But he's got the attitude to make it work. He's NOT Kyle Boller, that's ridiculous.

His problem is that he can't stay healthy, plain and simple.
True he cant stay healthy, But given the leadership or lack there of at Arrowhead the kid really doesnt have a chance...

IF the GM and HC valued a OL, Croyle might have a chance... Until then, there isnt much hope for Croyle. Or Ryan (Mecca Boyfriend) wouldnt last very long either....

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 09:27 AM
“There’s nothing big-time about me,” he says. “I’m just a starting quarterback in the NFL.”
You better start getting some wins or you won't be a starter for very long.

rad
03-10-2008, 10:10 AM
Numbers really have nothing to do with draft status or Colt Brennan would be the greatest prospect that ever lived...and Ryan was considered a 1st rounder last year aswell....him and Quinn would have battled out over #2.

What's up with Brennan? I thought he was gonna be a strong prospect going into last season, did he get hurt or something?

Reerun_KC
03-10-2008, 10:28 AM
“There’s nothing big-time about me,” he says. “I’m just a starting quarterback in the NFL.”
You better start getting some quality OLor you won't be a starter for very long.


FYP amazing that you expect a QB to be a Pro Bowl caliber with a DII caliber coaching staff and OL....

:spock:

RustShack
03-10-2008, 10:29 AM
He doesn't play well against good teams.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 10:31 AM
FYP amazing that you expect a QB to be a Pro Bowl caliber with a DII caliber coaching staff and OL....

:spock:I said he needs to start WINNING games-I never mentioned Pro Bowl and Croyle at all. How about putting more words in my mouth. Sorry, but the jury is still out on Croyle.

DaKCMan AP
03-10-2008, 10:43 AM
I don't advocate reaching for Ryan at #5 just because we're unsure at QB and next year's crop might be weaker. I've never been impressed with Ryan and this team has enough holes that we can vastly improve our OL or DL with #5 instead of flipping a coin with Ryan.

I'd be perfectly fine selecting Brohm or Woodson in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, respectively.

Hays
03-10-2008, 10:45 AM
It's good to see Brody do this and show his commitment of course we will have to see if it carries out on the field this upcoming season. But atleast he is showing that he wants this job and is going to fight for it.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 10:47 AM
I don't advocate reaching for Ryan at #5 just because we're unsure at QB and next year's crop might be weaker. I've never been impressed with Ryan and this team has enough holes that we can vastly improve our OL or DL with #5 instead of flipping a coin with Ryan.

I'd be perfectly fine selecting Brohm or Woodson in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, respectively.
I agree. This QB class is weak, IMO. It would be foolish to reach for a QB.

Reerun_KC
03-10-2008, 10:56 AM
I said he needs to start WINNING games-I never mentioned Pro Bowl and Croyle at all. How about putting more words in my mouth. Sorry, but the jury is still out on Croyle.
You act like the QB is the reason we are losing games.. hell even the Carl Petersons savior DownField BigGame couldnt win behind this line...

Yes the jury is still out on Croyle, Hell at this point the Jury is still out on Horrid, but with this weak ass OL, Manning or Jesus himself couldnt win, let alone be very successful...

That is what I am getting at...

Coach
03-10-2008, 11:28 AM
“There’s nothing big-time about me,” he says. “I’m just a starting quarterback in the NFL.”
You better start getting some wins or you won't be a starter for very long.

Keep in mind that he can't win it all by himself. The defense did give up some game winning drives in the 4th quarter when the Chiefs had took the lead or tied.

It would also be nice to see if he can get a decent line that knows how to pass-block for a change.

KCChiefsFan88
03-10-2008, 02:15 PM
If the Chiefs want Croyle to succeed why don't they give him a legit chance by building an effective offense around him? Currently the Chiefs have the worst WR corp in the league and one of the worst offensvie lines in the league... how is Croyle supposed to develop under those conditions?

DaKCMan AP
03-10-2008, 02:23 PM
If the Chiefs want Croyle to succeed why don't they give him a legit chance by building an effective offense around him? Currently the Chiefs have the worst WR corp in the league and one of the worst offensvie lines in the league... how is Croyle supposed to develop under those conditions?

I'd take our WRs over Miami, Tennessee, Philly, Chicago and Atlanta.

Mecca
03-10-2008, 02:37 PM
What's up with Brennan? I thought he was gonna be a strong prospect going into last season, did he get hurt or something?

He's undersized and doesn't have a big arm.

Mecca
03-10-2008, 02:38 PM
True he cant stay healthy, But given the leadership or lack there of at Arrowhead the kid really doesnt have a chance...

IF the GM and HC valued a OL, Croyle might have a chance... Until then, there isnt much hope for Croyle. Or Ryan (Mecca Boyfriend) wouldnt last very long either....

Now I don't advocate Ryan as the best player, I've talked about him some because you know we do pick 5th, any number of things could happen. I'm saying in some scenarios the Chiefs should consider taking him, it doesn't mean I think he's the best player or anything like that..

Some people twist around my views at times.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 02:40 PM
Keep in mind that he can't win it all by himself. The defense did give up some game winning drives in the 4th quarter when the Chiefs had took the lead or tied.

It would also be nice to see if he can get a decent line that knows how to pass-block for a change.
I think that's the goal. I know we'll pick up at least a couple of lineman in the draft. I think the fans frustration grows from the putting all of your eggs in one basket category ie the draft. I was frustrated, now I realize they aren't going to turn this shipwreck around any time soon, so I'm just looking forward to seeing the draft and seeing if I like the direction the team is taking.

Mecca
03-10-2008, 02:42 PM
I think that's the goal. I know we'll pick up at least a couple of lineman in the draft. I think the fans frustration grows from the putting all of your eggs in one basket category ie the draft. I was frustrated, now I realize they aren't going to turn this shipwreck around any time soon, so I'm just looking forward to seeing the draft and seeing if I like the direction the team is taking.

Some people also have 0 faith in this teams ability to draft, so they just assume all our picks will suck.

bogey
03-10-2008, 02:44 PM
If he's a good QB, we'll know it, even with a horrid OL and so, so WR's. So far, I'm unimpressed. I hope someone's keeping an eye out for a GOOD replacement QB while they're trying to improve the rest of the offense.

htismaqe
03-10-2008, 03:15 PM
He's undersized and doesn't have a big arm.

He also has documented attitude issues, and prior criminal record.

TEX
03-10-2008, 03:27 PM
Brodie looks like such a dumbass sitting there.