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chop
03-10-2008, 11:52 AM
Titans agree to terms with G Scott

By Sports Network

The Sports Network


The Titans have agreed to terms on a four- year contract with guard Jake Scott, according to the Tennessean.
The newspaper reported that Scott's deal averages a little less than $5 million per season.
Scott started 55 straight games, including playoffs, for the Indianapolis Colts over the past three seasons and gives Tennessee a replacement for Jacob Bell, who signed with St. Louis last week. Perhaps more importantly, the signing is a significant blow to Indianapolis, a division rival of the Titans.
Scott has played in 60 games for the Colts since he was taken in the fifth round of the 2004 NFL Draft out of Idaho.

DaKCMan AP
03-10-2008, 11:54 AM
Moronic Planet meltdown commencing in 3......2.....1.....

Micjones
03-10-2008, 11:54 AM
No meltdown forthcoming. Disappointment to be sure, but meltdown? No.

Most of us have resigned ourselves to the fact that this team is going to depend solely on the Draft and falter. Teams don't build this way in the NFL. So we'll be back to overspending for older FA's in 3-4 years when the team is much much younger, but mediocre as Hell.

This is going to make for an interesting opening three rounds of the Draft.
Guard just became a Day 1 priority.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 11:54 AM
Close to $5 million per season-no thanks.

JBucc
03-10-2008, 11:58 AM
I don't know much about the guy but at 295 he doesn't seem big enough to play G in a power running scheme.

Direckshun
03-10-2008, 11:58 AM
Man, the Chiefs are NOT signing a soul unless it's gut-bucket cheap.

They are literally going to square one this year. I mean, literally. We are going to look like an expansion team. You get what you put in.

I understand everybody's overpaying for these FA acquisitions but that's the market; you've got to overpay when a good opportunity makes itself known. Scott has a lot of his career in front of him and would have been a terrific signing.

I'm not an alarmist by any means, I've proven that here, and I don't think the Chiefs' plan is a bad one, but it surprises me how extreme their execution of it is. I understand they'er not playing with champagne money, but they aren't even playing with beer money -- they're playing with vending machine change.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 11:58 AM
Close to $5 million per season-no thanks.

Priceless.

What are you expecting to pay for a Guard?

It should be noted that he was the least expensive FA Guard on the market.

BigVE
03-10-2008, 12:00 PM
Chiefs can't sign a free-agent when he has no interest in coming here.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 12:00 PM
Chiefs can't sign a free-agent when he has no interest in coming here.

You know that to be true?

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 12:03 PM
Priceless.

What are you expecting to pay for a Guard?$5 million is too much for an average guard. Give me elite and I'd pay MORE, but not for average-that's not spending the money wisely.

BigVE
03-10-2008, 12:06 PM
You know that to be true?


No, but think about it: WHY would anyone who is a decent player and has a choice WANT to come to a team that is perennially a non-factor and has made no real efforts thus far to climb out of the cellar?

Micjones
03-10-2008, 12:07 PM
$5 million is too much for an average guard. Give me elite and I'd pay MORE, but not for average-that's not spending the money wisely.

I think whether or not he's average can be argued, but...
What's a fair contract for Jake Scott?

StcChief
03-10-2008, 12:09 PM
$5 million is too much for an average guard. Give me elite and I'd pay MORE, but not for average-that's not spending the money wisely.
so our draft pick will be ~avg NFL guard with No NFL experience untill week 8, as he get's toasted.

6-10 in 2008 if we are lucky

Micjones
03-10-2008, 12:09 PM
No, but think about it: WHY would anyone who is a decent player and has a choice WANT to come to a team that is perennially a non-factor and has made no real efforts thus far to climb out of the cellar?

DeMorrio Williams just did.

CupidStunt
03-10-2008, 12:10 PM
Who?

BigVE
03-10-2008, 12:13 PM
Who?

Exactly.

oldandslow
03-10-2008, 12:13 PM
Seriously, I think we have a great shot at the worst record in the league next year.

Macintosh, Waters and a whole buncha rookies = Croyle on his back 8 times a game and Johnson at 3.3 yards per.

I know all the caveats (FA isn't over etc) apply, but no OL, a rookie starting CB, suspect DT's, only 1 wr, and Mr. Genius as HC isn't my recipe for a great upcoming season.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 12:13 PM
I think whether or not he's average can be argued, but...
What's a fair contract for Jake Scott?
I would say a fair contract is around $3.5 million per year.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 12:15 PM
DeMorrio Williams just did.Did I miss the Falcons being a good team last year? It was a lateral move for Williams, because the shitty team he played for didn't even want him back.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 12:17 PM
I would say a fair contract is around $3.5 million per year.

So we're haggling over $1.5 million?
To have a player who solidifies that spot for the next 3-5 years?
:shake:

Micjones
03-10-2008, 12:18 PM
Did I miss the Falcons being a good team last year? It was a lateral move for Williams, because the shitty team he played for didn't even want him back.

Even more reason why he would go to a contending team.

Fish
03-10-2008, 12:21 PM
No meltdown forthcoming. Disappointment to be sure, but meltdown? No.

Most of us have resigned ourselves to the fact that this team is going to depend solely on the Draft and falter. Teams don't build this way in the NFL. So we'll be back to overspending for older FA's in 3-4 years when the team is much much younger, but mediocre as Hell.

This is going to make for an interesting opening three rounds of the Draft.
Guard just became a Day 1 priority.

...and falter?

So you don't think there's any way this method could work huh? Your patience didn't last 2 weeks into a rebuilding offseason, and you're convinced it will fail? And you think the answer will be to start overspending for older FA's again?

ROFL

Carl loves you................

CupidStunt
03-10-2008, 12:24 PM
Seriously, I think we have a great shot at the worst record in the league next year.

Macintosh, Waters and a whole buncha rookies = Croyle on his back 8 times a game and Johnson at 3.3 yards per.

I know all the caveats (FA isn't over etc) apply, but no OL, a rookie starting CB, suspect DT's, only 1 wr, and Mr. Genius as HC isn't my recipe for a great upcoming season.

Great. So you take Michael Oher and solidify the LT spot for 10 years, along with having the first pick in each following round.

Rather that than 6-10, pick 10 and a whole lot of mediocre.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 12:24 PM
Even more reason why he would go to a contending team.He probably didn't have many suitors and certainly not any contending teams were knocking his door down.

Direckshun
03-10-2008, 12:27 PM
Great. So you take Michael Oher and solidify the LT spot for 10 years, along with having the first pick in each following round.

Rather that than 6-10, pick 10 and a whole lot of mediocre.
I honestly think this may be our strategy.

Suck wind for a year, give your rooks a lot of time to prove their worth, come back with an elite crop of rooks in 2009 and all of a sudden, we're young everywhere and have decent to good to great talent at most of our positions.

shaneo69
03-10-2008, 12:29 PM
I don't know much about the guy but at 295 he doesn't seem big enough to play G in a power running scheme.

I thought Herm was planning to run the Denver (non-power) running scheme?

Direckshun
03-10-2008, 12:30 PM
I thought Herm was planning to run the Denver (non-power) running scheme?
NOBODY has any idea what the hell we're going to do.

We originally wanted a guy who would install a zone-blocking scheme, but it was never clarified which way we were going after that fell through.

shaneo69
03-10-2008, 12:33 PM
So you don't think there's any way this method could work huh?

Nope, no way in hell it's gonna work. Unless by work you mean 3-13 in 2008 and 5-11 in 2009.

"But you just gotta give these things time."

shaneo69
03-10-2008, 12:35 PM
NOBODY has any idea what the hell we're going to do.

We originally wanted a guy who would install a zone-blocking scheme, but it was never clarified which way we were going after that fell through.

That's right. Chan doesn't have a sterotypical "scheme"; he just designs the offense around the players' strengths.

Chiefnj2
03-10-2008, 12:39 PM
I honestly think this may be our strategy.

Suck wind for a year, give your rooks a lot of time to prove their worth, come back with an elite crop of rooks in 2009 and all of a sudden, we're young everywhere and have decent to good to great talent at most of our positions.

Because the team has been so great at developing players?

Chiefnj2
03-10-2008, 12:40 PM
That's right. Chan doesn't have a sterotypical "scheme"; he just designs the offense around the players' strengths.

So, if the Chiefs actually had a C, RG and RT he could design a system?

Is there any known system for a team with only two down linemen?

htismaqe
03-10-2008, 12:40 PM
Great. So you take Michael Oher and solidify the LT spot for 10 years, along with having the first pick in each following round.

Rather that than 6-10, pick 10 and a whole lot of mediocre.

QFT

Micjones
03-10-2008, 12:40 PM
...and falter?

Depending solely on the Draft is a recipe for disaster.
Especially with the Chiefs braintrust.

So you don't think there's any way this method could work huh?

Sure it could work, but it's not going to work like some of you think it will.

The idea though that we can afford to pay multiple Top 5 picks over the next couple years when we can't pay Scott is ridiculous though.

Your patience didn't last 2 weeks into a rebuilding offseason, and you're convinced it will fail?

How dare you...
I've been a Chiefs fan for 20 years.
If there's anything I haven't run out of it's patience.

I'm just lowering my expectations.

And you think the answer will be to start overspending for older FA's again?

That's not the answer, but that's what's going to happen when the plan doesn't work.

ROFL

Carl loves you................

I'm not the one who buys into "the plan" that they've come up with.
Come again?

htismaqe
03-10-2008, 12:40 PM
Is there any known system for a team with only two down linemen?

That's Arena Ball!

htismaqe
03-10-2008, 12:42 PM
I'm just lowering my expectations.

And therein lies the problem, you have expectations.

I'm not the one who buys into "the plan" that they've come up with.
Come again?

Nobody is BUYING INTO anything. Alot of us have wanted the Chiefs to do this for YEARS. You make it sound like people were only on-board with this kind of rebuilding once the Chiefs started to do it, which couldn't be FURTHER from the truth.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 12:46 PM
So we're haggling over $1.5 million?
To have a player who solidifies that spot for the next 3-5 years?
:shake:

No-that's a difference of $7.5 MILLION over five years.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 12:47 PM
And therein lies the problem, you have expectations.

We're two different people. I will always have expectations.

Nobody is BUYING INTO anything. Alot of us have wanted the Chiefs to do this for YEARS. You make it sound like people were only on-board with this kind of rebuilding once the Chiefs started to do it, which couldn't be FURTHER from the truth.

That may be true, but I've never heard the trumpets blow this loud for this type of rebuilding process.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 12:49 PM
No-that's a difference of $7.5 MILLION over five years.

Depends on how the deal is structured.
7.5 over 5 years isn't bad.

5 years from now the NFL could have no Salary Cap.

alpha_omega
03-10-2008, 12:51 PM
Undersized

Mr. Laz
03-10-2008, 12:51 PM
i've just chosen to look at the next 2 years as close out sale for the next GM and HC.

maybe after 3 years of top 5 picks they will have more to work with.


should be about 50 million below salary cap by then too.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 12:53 PM
i've just chosen to look at the next 2 years as close out sale for the next GM and HC.

maybe after 3 years of top 5 picks they will have more to work with.


should be about 50 million below salary cap by then too.

We can't afford to pay Scott, but we can pay $45 million in guaranteed money over the next 3 years? With Johnson AND Allen on the roster?

TEX
03-10-2008, 12:54 PM
Man, the Chiefs are NOT signing a soul unless it's gut-bucket cheap.

They are literally going to square one this year. I mean, literally. We are going to look like an expansion team. You get what you put in.

I understand everybody's overpaying for these FA acquisitions but that's the market; you've got to overpay when a good opportunity makes itself known. Scott has a lot of his career in front of him and would have been a terrific signing.

I'm not an alarmist by any means, I've proven that here, and I don't think the Chiefs' plan is a bad one, but it surprises me how extreme their execution of it is. I understand they'er not playing with champagne money, but they aren't even playing with beer money -- they're playing with vending machine change.

Yep. And just when they're supposed to be way under the cap. Oh well...

Chiefnj2
03-10-2008, 12:57 PM
Undersized

It seems like a lot of college linemen are coming out "smaller" than ideal. Perhaps its time for more teams, KC included, to rethink their approach to the OL and adopt a zone scheme.

5-6 years ago, teams that run a 3-4 were at an advantage because they could draft all the tweeners with little competition. It seems that teams with zone blocking schemes have a similar advantage.

shaneo69
03-10-2008, 12:59 PM
Great. So you take Michael Oher and solidify the LT spot for 10 years...

Just like Victor Riley and John Tait solidified our OT spots for 10 years after we drafted them in the 1st round.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 01:00 PM
We can't afford to pay Scott, but we can pay $45 million in guaranteed money over the next 3 years? With Johnson AND Allen on the roster?It's not that we can't afford Jake Scott-we can. It's that the team is starting from the ground level and think signing FAs to big money is fruitless because by the time the rookies are ready, players like scott will be at the end of their contract and wasted money because our record will still be awful while we are developing so many players.
Signing FAs is only going to be a stop-gap, we finally want to develop our own.


BTW, I agree that the FO won't be successful, because their evaluations aren't very good.

Mr. Laz
03-10-2008, 01:01 PM
We can't afford to pay Scott, but we can pay $45 million in guaranteed money over the next 3 years? With Johnson AND Allen on the roster?

the "new plan" didn't start until this year

btw ... i didn't say we "can't afford" anything.


i just said that i've chosen to take the mindset that the next 2 years are toast already.

The Chiefs are run by dumb and dumber and all we can hope for is that Carl and Herm shred this thing up and leave the next GM and HC with more raw talent and more cap room to actually fix the thing.

top 5 drafting for the next few years
no FA spending for the next few years
carl leaves
herm gets fired

brand new slate with more talent and huge cap room for the new GM.

hopefully the new GM will have an eye for football instead of profit.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:05 PM
It's not that we can't afford Jake Scott-we can. It's that the team is starting from the ground level and think signing FAs to big money is fruitless because by the time the rookies are ready, players like scott will be at the end of their contract and wasted money because our record will still be awful while we are developing so many players.

How significant is aiding Croyle in the process of his development?
Development which effects other young offensive skill players like Dwayne Bowe and Michael Allan. We can't structure the roster based entirely upon this year's draft class. There has to be consideration of other players who might already occupy it.

Signing FAs is only going to be a stop-gap, we finally want to develop our own.

I've never heard of a 5 year stop-gap.
That's the NFL's life expectancy. To pretend that having an answer at Guard for the next 5 years can be called a "stop-gap" is to be disingenuous.

CupidStunt
03-10-2008, 01:07 PM
Just like Victor Riley and John Tait solidified our OT spots for 10 years after we drafted them in the 1st round.

You can't compare the 27th and 14th picks to the No. 1 overall pick.

Riley and Tait are to Oher as Joe Staley and Ryan Clady are to Orlando Pace.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:07 PM
the "new plan" didn't start until this year

The plan is to make better personnel decision across the board.
Any plan that removes Free Agency from the equation is going to fail.
At least with this bunch pushing the buttons.

i just said that i've chosen to take the mindset that the next 2 years are toast already.

That's no reason why we can't improve the team.

brand new slate with more talent and huge cap room for the new GM.

hopefully the new GM will have an eye for football instead of profit.

And you know what the next GM will do?
Use that cap space to sign a bunch of Free Agents.
Because we'll have a young mediocre football team.

ChiefHusker
03-10-2008, 01:12 PM
Nobody builds through the draft?? So the Giants signing 1 FA last year and building through the draft doesn't work?????? The Packers going 13-3 while barely participating in FA doesn't work? Grant it they did had a proven QB. I could go on but it seems pointless at this moment...

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:20 PM
Nobody builds through the draft?? So the Giants signing 1 FA last year and building through the draft doesn't work??????

They signed probably a half-dozen the three years leading up to winning the Superbowl this season. I can name several FA's they signed. I have already. Plaxico Burress, Kareem McKinzie, Kawika Mitchell, Lawrence Tynes.

How many Free Agents did the other Superbowl team sign in the years leading up to their Superbowl run?

That's NOT helping your argument.

The Packers going 13-3 while barely participating in FA doesn't work? Grant it they did had a proven QB. I could go on but it seems pointless at this moment...

What exactly did the Packers win this year?
We're striving to go 13-3 and lose in the Conference Championship game?

Mr. Laz
03-10-2008, 01:22 PM
The plan is to make better personnel decision across the board.
Any plan that removes Free Agency from the equation is going to fail.
At least with this bunch pushing the buttons.



That's no reason why we can't improve the team.



And you know what the next GM will do?
Use that cap space to sign a bunch of Free Agents.
Because we'll have a young mediocre football team.
dude ... you're confusing what I WANT versus WHAT THE CHIEFS ARE DOING.

i didn't say this is what i wanted

i've just resigned myself to accept it and expect the worse so i'm not disappointed.

i'm defeated .... Carl has beaten me into submission.

they wanted me to "get over it" and i pretty much have.


F***'em


i'll watch some football and drink some beer .... Carl can go to hell.

htismaqe
03-10-2008, 01:28 PM
That may be true, but I've never heard the trumpets blow this loud for this type of rebuilding process.

You've only been here a year.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:28 PM
You've only been here a year.

Touche.

htismaqe
03-10-2008, 01:31 PM
They signed probably a half-dozen the three years leading up to winning the Superbowl this season. I can name several FA's they signed. I have already. Plaxico Burress, Kareem McKinzie, Kawika Mitchell, Lawrence Tynes.


How many of those guys signed after their 4-12 season in 2002? Or after their 6-10 season in 2003?

You keep bringing this up whenever somebody mentions the Giants, but then when you get the FACTS, you don't want to address it anymore.

Fish
03-10-2008, 01:37 PM
Nope, no way in hell it's gonna work. Unless by work you mean 3-13 in 2008 and 5-11 in 2009.

"But you just gotta give these things time."

Yes you do have to give these things time. It may very well be another 2 seasons before we're competitive again. You should realize that now.

Are you one of those who can't stand not being back at 8-8 already?

Valiant
03-10-2008, 01:38 PM
How significant is aiding Croyle in the process of his development?
Development which effects other young offensive skill players like Dwayne Bowe and Michael Allan. We can't structure the roster based entirely upon this year's draft class. There has to be consideration of other players who might already occupy it.



I've never heard of a 5 year stop-gap.
That's the NFL's life expectancy. To pretend that having an answer at Guard for the next 5 years can be called a "stop-gap" is to be disingenuous.

Sigh.. Most players never even see half of their contract fulfilled before they are released.. Example, almost every released to save cap room..

Brock
03-10-2008, 01:40 PM
What exactly did the Packers win this year?
We're striving to go 13-3 and lose in the Conference Championship game?

that would be a major step up for a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 15 years.

Rain Man
03-10-2008, 01:41 PM
What exactly did the Packers win this year?
We're striving to go 13-3 and lose in the Conference Championship game?


It's a good start.

Iowanian
03-10-2008, 01:44 PM
Cool.


More sundays to bowhunt and DVR the games that might be available on TV.

Fish
03-10-2008, 01:47 PM
Depending solely on the Draft is a recipe for disaster.
Especially with the Chiefs braintrust.

Sure it could work, but it's not going to work like some of you think it will.

The idea though that we can afford to pay multiple Top 5 picks over the next couple years when we can't pay Scott is ridiculous though.

How dare you...
I've been a Chiefs fan for 20 years.
If there's anything I haven't run out of it's patience.

I'm just lowering my expectations.

That's not the answer, but that's what's going to happen when the plan doesn't work.

I'm not the one who buys into "the plan" that they've come up with.
Come again?

You keep saying it over and over.... but the Chiefs aren't depending solely on the draft. They've only signed 1 guy so far. That in no way means they're finished.

And they very well could pay Scott. Everyone knows that. Because they didn't doesn't mean that they couldn't. Jumping to more conclusions.....

And forgive me for questioning your patience, but you've given anything but evidence to the contrary....

You ask what's gonna happen when "the plan" doesn't work? Well... how about we give "the plan" a try before totally writing it off already? I am by no means saying it's going to work and everything will be peachy. But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and see what happens before I resign to saying the hell with it. We've tried the other way for more than a decade..... give them time to try something else........

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:48 PM
How many of those guys signed after their 4-12 season in 2002? Or after their 6-10 season in 2003?

Plaxico Burress | signed 2005
Kevin Boothe | signed 2007
Reuben Droughns | signed 2007
Madison Hedgecock | signed 2007
Sam Madison | signed 2005
Kareem McKenzie | signed 2004
R.W. McQuarters | signed 2006
Shaun O'Hara | signed 2004
Antonio Pierce | signed 2004
Fred Robbins | signed 2004
Kawika Mitchell | signed 2007

You were saying?

You keep bringing this up whenever somebody mentions the Giants, but then when you get the FACTS, you don't want to address it anymore.

See above.
That's all the fact-finding you need.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:49 PM
Sigh.. Most players never even see half of their contract fulfilled before they are released.. Example, almost every released to save cap room..

Scott would see the end of his.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:50 PM
that would be a major step up for a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 15 years.

Sure it would.

But we don't have a Hall of Fame QB under Center.
Keep that in mind.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:51 PM
It's a good start.

Think they're on their way back now that one of the greatest QB's in NFL history has stepped away from the game?

Okay, now reconsider what you said...

ChiefHusker
03-10-2008, 01:51 PM
Mitchell was there only FA pickup last year. Tynes was acquired through a trade. Plax was a FA pick up over 3 years ago and 2 years ago for McKenzie. I am not saying FA is worthless, I am saying you can't go ass backwards by going through FA signing everyone you see. The chiefs have done that and where did it get them.........Patchwork players with no playoff wins and certainly no Super Bowl

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:55 PM
You keep saying it over and over.... but the Chiefs aren't depending solely on the draft. They've only signed 1 guy so far. That in no way means they're finished.

I've said as much. But you're not going to convince me that some guy signed in June is going to make an impact on this football team. Who are we kidding?

And they very well could pay Scott. Everyone knows that. Because they didn't doesn't mean that they couldn't. Jumping to more conclusions.....

I know they could've. That's my point.

You ask what's gonna happen when "the plan" doesn't work? Well... how about we give "the plan" a try before totally writing it off already? I am by no means saying it's going to work and everything will be peachy. But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and see what happens before I resign to saying the hell with it. We've tried the other way for more than a decade..... give them time to try something else........

A team that makes sound decisions in Free Agency can depend on Day 2 picks a little less than we'll have to under this scenario.

ChiefHusker
03-10-2008, 01:55 PM
Yeah Reubon Droughns was key to winning that Super Bowl.

You have been Brainwashed by the media and the "Importance" of signing FA players that are mediocre at best. Sure there will be 4 maybe 5 stars that just flat out want to much $$ and are moved in Free Agency, but we all know how cheap CP is.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:56 PM
Mitchell was there only FA pickup last year. Tynes was acquired through a trade.

You're right. I keep forgetting about Tynes going over in a trade.

Plax was a FA pick up over 3 years ago and 2 years ago for McKenzie.

I know as much. Who says Free Agents have to bring immediate change?
That's what's funny about all of this... I don't expect them to, but what happened after they added a few key pieces in April? They won the damn Superbowl. Hello?

I am not saying FA is worthless, I am saying you can't go ass backwards by going through FA signing everyone you see. The chiefs have done that and where did it get them.........Patchwork players with no playoff wins and certainly no Super Bowl

That's because we made BAD decisions.
There's no fault in the process. It's the execution of that process that matters.

Micjones
03-10-2008, 01:58 PM
Yeah Reubon Droughns was key to winning that Super Bowl.

Winning the Superbowl is a team effort.
He contributed.

Way to gloss over bigger contributors acquired through Free Agency though.

You have been Brainwashed by the media and the "Importance" of signing FA players that are mediocre at best.

Even though I just illustrated how it worked for the Superbowl champions.
And the other team that lost the game whose Free Agent acquisitions I never even got into...
:rolleyes:

Sure ace.

Mr. Flopnuts
03-10-2008, 02:14 PM
I understand they'er not playing with champagne money, but they aren't even playing with beer money -- they're playing with vending machine change.


So the question is this; If they're not going to spend the 25 million they have in cap money, how much lower are tickets, parking, and condiments going to be to watch a 4 win team?

Micjones
03-10-2008, 02:23 PM
So the question is this; If they're not going to spend the 25 million they have in cap money, how much lower are tickets, parking, and condiments going to be to watch a 4 win team?

The million dollar question...

Fish
03-10-2008, 03:01 PM
So the question is this; If they're not going to spend the 25 million they have in cap money, how much lower are tickets, parking, and condiments going to be to watch a 4 win team?

Be reasonable..... cap money spent on the team has nothing to do with ticket price, parking, and condiments.

And it shouldn't really be a goal to use all of your possible cap space anyway... having extra is never a bad thing.... especially with extra draft picks.

Fish
03-10-2008, 03:09 PM
I've said as much. But you're not going to convince me that some guy signed in June is going to make an impact on this football team. Who are we kidding?

You can believe what you want... but there will be plenty of options for quality guys in June. There always are.


A team that makes sound decisions in Free Agency can depend on Day 2 picks a little less than we'll have to under this scenario.

Who cares? We're not good enough as a whole to worry about this. You're getting too hung up on exactly where our players are going to come from....

KCChiefsFan88
03-10-2008, 03:12 PM
The Royals might actually have a higher payroll next year than the Chiefs

beavis
03-10-2008, 03:14 PM
The Royals might actually have a higher payroll next year than the Chiefs

Wow, never thought about that, but you aren't far from being right.

BigMeatballDave
03-10-2008, 03:20 PM
so our draft pick will be ~avg NFL guard with No NFL experience untill week 8, as he get's toasted.

6-10 in 2008 if we are lucky6-10? Homer. :D I say we will be lucky to see 4 wins.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 03:23 PM
Jones, I've been in your shoes, where I questioned all their moves and motives and now I just say to Hell with it. I still want them to become a great team, but I know deep down adding Jake Scott to our team isn't going to be the difference in going 4-12 to 10-6. He's one player and one who is average at best. Carl's put the team so far in the cellar, I just sit back and laugh-it helps to keep from going crazy. I also hope they fail miserably so his ass can be shown the door-it's the only solice I find with the Chiefs these days. I know it's wrong, but Carl's act has worn thin with me and I know he'd just put together a patchwork of players who are bargain basement prices anyway. Carl doesn't pursue excellence. Carl pursues money and how to save as much as possible for ownership. The snake oil salesman has been exposed in my book-now sit back and enjoy him squirm when we go 2-14, with half of the fan base missing.

BigChiefFan
03-10-2008, 03:26 PM
June sucks ass for FA now. I don't buy that argument in the least since they changed things around in the NFL. You don't have to wait until June to spread the bonus over two seasons now. Some need to realize we are going to probably be the worst team in the NFL next year.

Mecca
03-10-2008, 03:33 PM
Look you know what smart teams do? They sit down and allocate the amount of money they can spend on each position in correlation to how important each position is. You know what one of the lowest ones on each team is? Guard..

There is 0 reason to pay Guards 5 mill a year when starting Guards are routinely pulled out of the 2nd day of the draft and make peanuts. And when you say oh but they can afford to pay top 5 picks, those guys will play much more premium positions than a Guard, so the many is allocated for that.

I don't think you should ever pay big money or highly draft a Guard it's a waste of money.

Mecca
03-10-2008, 03:34 PM
June sucks ass for FA now. I don't buy that argument in the least since they changed things around in the NFL. You don't have to wait until June to spread the bonus over two seasons now. Some need to realize we are going to probably be the worst team in the NFL next year.

Expect alot of UDFA's and young players teams cut during camp....but the Colts do this same thing so it can work.

htismaqe
03-10-2008, 04:13 PM
Plaxico Burress | signed 2005
Kevin Boothe | signed 2007
Reuben Droughns | signed 2007
Madison Hedgecock | signed 2007
Sam Madison | signed 2005
Kareem McKenzie | signed 2004
R.W. McQuarters | signed 2006
Shaun O'Hara | signed 2004
Antonio Pierce | signed 2004
Fred Robbins | signed 2004
Kawika Mitchell | signed 2007

You were saying?


Well, you can throw out all but McKenzie, O'Hara, Pierce, and Robbins. Because those are the only guys on that list that were signed while the Giants were "rebuilding".

Antonio Pierce was one of the top 5 free agents at any position that offseason and hardly fits your argument. By the same token, Kareem McKenzie was one of the top linemen available and got a contract commensurate.

That leaves Fred Robbins and Sean O'Hara as the two guys they signed in the first week of free agency that year that fit what you're looking for - low cost, ascending players.

htismaqe
03-10-2008, 04:28 PM
I take that back. Those dates aren't correct.

The only guy on that list that was signed after the 4-12 season in 2003 was Sean O'Hara. The only other players they signed before April were Barrett Green and Barry Stokes, neither of whom are even still on the team.

TEX
03-10-2008, 04:32 PM
Jones, I've been in your shoes, where I questioned all their moves and motives and now I just say to Hell with it. I still want them to become a great team, but I know deep down adding Jake Scott to our team isn't going to be the difference in going 4-12 to 10-6. He's one player and one who is average at best. Carl's put the team so far in the cellar, I just sit back and laugh-it helps to keep from going crazy. I also hope they fail miserably so his ass can be shown the door-it's the only solice I find with the Chiefs these days. I know it's wrong, but Carl's act has worn thin with me and I know he'd just put together a patchwork of players who are bargain basement prices anyway. Carl doesn't pursue excellence. Carl pursues money and how to save as much as possible for ownership. The snake oil salesman has been exposed in my book-now sit back and enjoy him squirm when we go 2-14, with half of the fan base missing.

I feel the same way. I gave up on Carl the second he signed Herm. I keep telling myself that this will all be worth it IF he & Herm get shown the door after the season.

Mecca
03-10-2008, 04:38 PM
I feel the same way. I gave up on Carl the second he signed Herm. I keep telling myself that this will all be worth it IF he & Herm get shown the door after the season.

If they hire another coach who's idea of how to build a team is like Vermiels it will suck every bit as much.

shaneo69
03-10-2008, 09:42 PM
But I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and see what happens before I resign to saying the hell with it. We've tried the other way for more than a decade..... give them time to try something else........

ROFL

I gave Carl the benefit of the doubt for 10 years. No one in their right mind should be willing to give this arrogant bastard any more time to carry out his "master plan." Wake up for godsakes; this isn't a new plan, this is a freakin' excuse that they came up with in the middle of last year when it became apparent that they had become one of the worst teams in the league.

What in the hell makes you think these idiots can draft solid starters outside the 1st round? Hell, Vermiel's 1st round picks of LJ and DJ were better than what Herm has done in the 1st. And Herm hasn't done jack outside the 1st round. Pollard? Turk? Brodie? Tank? None of these guys are reliable starters.

After two drafts, Herm's drafted one above-average starter (Bowe), one adequate starter (Hali) and three other starters who probably wouldn't start on many other teams (Croyle, Pollard, Page).

Oh boy, we have 10 picks this year! Wow, we'll get one adequate starter, and a bunch of other guys who will replace the slugs from Herm's previous two drafts. Yippee!

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2008, 10:15 PM
Seriously, I think we have a great shot at the worst record in the league next year.

Macintosh, Waters and a whole buncha rookies = Croyle on his back 8 times a game and Johnson at 3.3 yards per.

I know all the caveats (FA isn't over etc) apply, but no OL, a rookie starting CB, suspect DT's, only 1 wr, and Mr. Genius as HC isn't my recipe for a great upcoming season.

Caring about next season is what got us into this predicament in the first place. Be patient.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2008, 10:16 PM
ROFL

I gave Carl the benefit of the doubt for 10 years. No one in their right mind should be willing to give this arrogant bastard any more time to carry out his "master plan." Wake up for godsakes; this isn't a new plan, this is a freakin' excuse that they came up with in the middle of last year when it became apparent that they had become one of the worst teams in the league.

What in the hell makes you think these idiots can draft solid starters outside the 1st round? Hell, Vermiel's 1st round picks of LJ and DJ were better than what Herm has done in the 1st. And Herm hasn't done jack outside the 1st round. Pollard? Turk? Brodie? Tank? None of these guys are reliable starters.

After two drafts, Herm's drafted one above-average starter (Bowe), one adequate starter (Hali) and three other starters who probably wouldn't start on many other teams (Croyle, Pollard, Page).

Oh boy, we have 10 picks this year! Wow, we'll get one adequate starter, and a bunch of other guys who will replace the slugs from Herm's previous two drafts. Yippee!

This isn't Carl's master plan. I don't believe he makes the personnel decisions anymore.

Fish
03-10-2008, 11:56 PM
ROFL

I gave Carl the benefit of the doubt for 10 years. No one in their right mind should be willing to give this arrogant bastard any more time to carry out his "master plan." Wake up for godsakes; this isn't a new plan, this is a freakin' excuse that they came up with in the middle of last year when it became apparent that they had become one of the worst teams in the league.

What in the hell makes you think these idiots can draft solid starters outside the 1st round? Hell, Vermiel's 1st round picks of LJ and DJ were better than what Herm has done in the 1st. And Herm hasn't done jack outside the 1st round. Pollard? Turk? Brodie? Tank? None of these guys are reliable starters.

After two drafts, Herm's drafted one above-average starter (Bowe), one adequate starter (Hali) and three other starters who probably wouldn't start on many other teams (Croyle, Pollard, Page).

Oh boy, we have 10 picks this year! Wow, we'll get one adequate starter, and a bunch of other guys who will replace the slugs from Herm's previous two drafts. Yippee!

Carl's "master plan?" Hardly. If Carl were making the decisions we would have signed back Trent Green to lead us to an inspiring season of 7-9, to the cheer of impatient panicked fans.

Zouk
03-11-2008, 12:09 AM
There is 0 reason to pay Guards 5 mill a year when starting Guards are routinely pulled out of the 2nd day of the draft and make peanuts. And when you say oh but they can afford to pay top 5 picks, those guys will play much more premium positions than a Guard, so the many is allocated for that.



I don't think you can make cut and dried rules like this. The Chargers paid Dielman $6 mill a year, and I don't think they regret it. The Colts paid Lilja $4 mill a year this offseason. The Cowboys paid Leonard Davis a ridiculous amount. The Pats drafted Mankins in the 1st (a low 1st, I know) and they will likely pay him big when his rookie contract runs its course. Same with the Giants and Chris Snee (high 2nd round pick). The Giants are negotiating a long-term contract with him this offseason that will be $7 mill+ per year in all likelihood.

Mecca
03-11-2008, 12:10 AM
If you got the money to do it it's one thing but generally I'd tell you paying Guards isn't the smartest thing to do.

DaneMcCloud
03-11-2008, 12:12 AM
Just like Victor Riley and John Tait solidified our OT spots for 10 years after we drafted them in the 1st round.

That's not fair.

Victor Riley turned out to be a freakin' psycho who backed his Ford Explorer into his family room while his wife and child were there.

Carl Peterson completely alienated John Tait. With any luck, CP will no longer be around in 5 years to alienate anyone.

Zouk
03-11-2008, 12:13 AM
I hope Herb Taylor plays right guard next year. There's nothing in his background that makes me think he can't do it. I'm much more worried about center.

Micjones
03-11-2008, 10:57 AM
Well, you can throw out all but McKenzie, O'Hara, Pierce, and Robbins. Because those are the only guys on that list that were signed while the Giants were "rebuilding".

Anything to patch up the holes in your argument.
The Superbowl champion Giants have signed close to a dozen Free Agents in the three years leading up to this season.

Paint that picture with whatever colors you'd like.
It won't change.

Antonio Pierce was one of the top 5 free agents at any position that offseason and hardly fits your argument. By the same token, Kareem McKenzie was one of the top linemen available and got a contract commensurate.

That leaves Fred Robbins and Sean O'Hara as the two guys they signed in the first week of free agency that year that fit what you're looking for - low cost, ascending players.

Again, who made you the arbiter of what counts?
This is called damage control.

The fact remains that Free Agency, used properly, can be a very helpful tool in building a championship team.