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redbrian
03-10-2008, 07:29 PM
Who does not think that this is going to turn out to be one big cluster f*&k of a hoot, no winner will be picked in the first ballet leading to a Donny brook of a floor fight with the 72 year old women libbers fighting the Jessie Jackson coalition for respect.

tiptap
03-10-2008, 07:35 PM
I am hoping it goes two weeks. That would mean it would be running at the same time as the Republican Convention. But even if it gets settled, people will be exhausted having watched the real show and won't even take the time to watch the Republican Convention the following week. And I will remind people that in 1968 Hubert Humphrey even with the commotion of the Chicago Convention nearly pulled off a win against Nixon. That is because the Democrats don't have long memories when it comes to the vote in November. The Vietnam War beat HWH.

redbrian
03-10-2008, 07:48 PM
The Dems are going to come out of the convention looking like the buffoons that they are, they canít even run an organized primary without friggen it up.

a1na2
03-10-2008, 07:57 PM
I am hoping it goes two weeks. That would mean it would be running at the same time as the Republican Convention. But even if it gets settled, people will be exhausted having watched the real show and won't even take the time to watch the Republican Convention the following week. And I will remind people that in 1968 Hubert Humphrey even with the commotion of the Chicago Convention nearly pulled off a win against Nixon. That is because the Democrats don't have long memories when it comes to the vote in November. The Vietnam War beat HWH.

I know where you are going, but to whom are you referring?

patteeu
03-10-2008, 09:22 PM
I know where you are going, but to whom are you referring?

Hubert Humphrey

Mr. Kotter
03-10-2008, 09:37 PM
Chicago, 1968 ALL over again, baby....:doh!:

:banghead:

jAZ
03-10-2008, 10:03 PM
I'm betting that it will be over after before July. But if it goes to the convention, it will guarantee a GOP victory and will destroy the Clinton legacy.

Mr. Kotter
03-10-2008, 10:23 PM
.... But if it goes to the convention, it will guarantee a GOP victory and will destroy the Clinton legacy.

I'm hopin' and prayin' baby....LET IT BE! :clap:

PBJ PBJ PBJ

jAZ
03-10-2008, 10:37 PM
I'm hopin' and prayin' baby....LET IT BE! :clap:

PBJ PBJ PBJ

Don't you pride your moderate, non-Republican standing on the fact that you support Bill Clinton? Sounds a lot like you are front running again.

Mr. Kotter
03-10-2008, 10:47 PM
Don't you pride your moderate, non-Republican standing on the fact that you support Bill Clinton? Sounds a lot like you are front running again.

Boy...your reading comprehension skills are amazingly inadequate; OR, more likely, you haven't really read my commentary closely. Go back, see for yourself. The new search function doesn't give you any excuses.

Bill Clinton was the beginning of the END with the Democratic party, for me; as a Reagan Democrat, I was beguilled back to the party by his charisma and lies. I campaigned enthusiastically for him in the 92 campaign, yes; but it's his lies, deceptions, and betrayals of his "promise" that has made me even more cynical and more jaded than ever. By '94, I knew he was a lie....waiting for the smoking gun; the smoking gun of the blue dress which exposed his opportunism, his deceptions, his lies, and his self-delusions. Once his integrity was shattered, and he lost any shred of credibility he had maintained ....despite his "typically" political behavior. Lying under oath? Covering up, blatant and chronic sexual harassment over YEARS of public service...so he could cling to power?

Give me a break. It's in part, and he's in part....precisely to blame for where we are: some saying that a NY governor's "private indiscretions" should not matter, and that we ought not be TOO concerned about today's adolescent....fascination with oral sex.....in MIDDLE SCHOOLS everywhere.

Of course, I'm just being a prude, right? :rolleyes:

Get a fuggin' life.....

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2008, 10:49 PM
Boy...your reading comprehension skills are amazingly inadequate; OR, more likely, you haven't really read my commentary closely. Go back, see for yourself. The new search function doesn't give you any excuses.

Bill Clinton was the beginning of the END with the Democratic party, for me; as a Reagn Democrat, I was beguilled back to the party by his charisma and lies. I campaigned enthusiastically for him in the 92 campaign, yes; but it's his lies, deceptions, and betrayals of his "promise" that has made me even more cynical and more jaded than ever. By '94, I knew he was a lie....waiting for the smoking gun; the smoking gun of the blue dress which exposed his opportunism, his deceptions, his lies, and his self-delusions. Once his integrity was shattered, and he lost any shred of credibility he had maintained ....despite his "typically" political behavior. Lying under oath? Covering up, blatant and chronic sexual harassment over YEARS of public service...so he could cling to power?

Give me a break. It's in part, and he's in part....precisely to blame for where we are: some saying that a NY governor's "private indiscretions" should not matter, and that we ought not be TOO concerned about today's adolescent....fascination with oral sex.....in MIDDLE SCHOOLS across the country.

Of course, I'm just being a prude, right? :rolleyes:

Get a fuggin' life.....

So you were an Obama supporter, and now you're rooting for the demise of the Democratic party? :spock:

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2008, 10:50 PM
Oh, and for the record, if such a thing were to happen, I'd drive out to Denver just to burst a Molotov on Terry McAuliffe's face.

Mr. Kotter
03-10-2008, 10:54 PM
So you were an Obama supporter, and now you're rooting for the demise of the Democratic party? :spock:

I'm STILL an Obama supporter.

However, if they try to steal this thing from him, and hand it to Hillary...I'll be happy, PLEASED AS PUNCH....to join you in Denver. And, I'm tellin' you...I'll be bringin' ONE-HELLUVA-Maltov-Cocktail....to light up the "convention" with.

;)

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-10-2008, 10:56 PM
I'm STILL an Obama supporter.

However, if they try to steal this thing from him, and hand it to Hillary...I'll be happy, PLEASED AS PUNCH....to join you in Denver. And, I'm tellin' you...I'll be bringin' ONE-HELLUVA-Maltov-Cocktail....to light up the "convention" with.

;)

ROAD TRIP!!

Mr. Kotter
03-10-2008, 11:01 PM
ROAD TRIP!!

Yeah, MF-Hey! :rockon:

:cuss:

jAZ
03-10-2008, 11:07 PM
I was beguilled back to the party by his charisma and lies. I campaigned enthusiastically for him in the 92 campaign, yes; but it's his lies, deceptions, and betrayals of his "promise" that has made me even more cynical and more jaded than ever. By '94, I knew he was a lie....waiting for the smoking gun; the smoking gun of the blue dress which exposed his opportunism, his deceptions, his lies, and his self-delusions. Once his integrity was shattered, and he lost any shred of credibility he had maintained ....despite his "typically" political behavior. Lying under oath? Covering up, blatant and chronic sexual harassment over YEARS of public service...so he could cling to power?
Wait... clear this up... cause I don't think any collection of search terms will point me to the right answer here.

What "lies" occured after 1992 and were exposed by 1994 caused you to root not only for Clinton's destruction but the entire party's destruction?

Just one clear example is enough.

jAZ
03-10-2008, 11:08 PM
ROAD TRIP!!

ROFL

Mr. Kotter
03-10-2008, 11:23 PM
Wait... clear this up... cause I don't think any collection of search terms will point me to the right answer here.

What "lies" occured after 1992 and were exposed by 1994 caused you to root not only for Clinton's destruction but the entire party's destruction?

Just one clear example is enough.

Campaigning in the "general election" as a centrist/moderate....then pursuing a leftist/liberal agenda: gays in the military-universal health care-and draconian defense cuts coinciding with tax increases on middle class folks (which he rejected during the general election) were a....START.

Coupled with the tactics of the election, and the exploding bimbo-gate....which was downplayed and largely ignored, despite the hypocrisy of being a woman's candidate and numerous credible and corroborated claims against him....well....

...the writing was on the wall. Despite "revisionist" Clintonian attempts to white-wash that truth.

Sorry; I was much too entrenched and embedded....to look the other way on these facts. :grr:

ClevelandBronco
03-10-2008, 11:27 PM
If you guys promise to bust up the convention I'll be happy to provide you with a place to stay.

Also, I have a neighbor who's in the bail bond business.

Mr. Kotter
03-10-2008, 11:30 PM
If you guys promise to bust up the convention I'll be happy to provide you with a place to stay.

Also, I have a neighbor who's in the bail bond business.

Deal, bitch. :thumb:

Hamas, you on board? :shrug:


:hmmm:

WoodDraw
03-10-2008, 11:39 PM
There's no way the Democrats take this to the convention. They'll let the rest of the states vote out and then fall in line behind the delegate leader. At that point, Clinton will have no choice but to back off. She'd rather hold on to her considerable power than be responsible for starting a civil war within the party.

jAZ
03-11-2008, 12:23 AM
Campaigning in the "general election" as a centrist/moderate....then pursuing a leftist/liberal agenda: gays in the military-universal health care-and draconian defense cuts coinciding with tax increases on middle class folks (which he rejected during the general election) were a....START.

You really need to get better at voting then. This is "The Third Way" 1992 Platform...

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29610


Universal Healthcare: "All Americans should have universal access to quality, affordable health careónot as a privilege, but as a right."

Defense cuts: "Our economy needs both the people and the funds released from defense at the Cold War's end."

Civil & Equal Rights: "provide civil rights protection for gay men and lesbians and an end to Defense Department discrimination; "

Tax Cuts & Deficit: "Addressing the deficit requires fair and shared sacrifice of all Americans for the common good."

There is lots more where that came from. In fact Bill Clinton worked to execute most all of his platform and it reading it again today, it makes him and the Dems look brilliant. That 1992 Platform could be copied and pasted into today and it would be highly relevant.

jAZ
03-11-2008, 12:28 AM
You really need to get better at voting then. This is "The Third Way" 1992 Platform...

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29610


Universal Healthcare: "All Americans should have universal access to quality, affordable health careónot as a privilege, but as a right."

Defense cuts: "Our economy needs both the people and the funds released from defense at the Cold War's end."

Civil & Equal Rights: "provide civil rights protection for gay men and lesbians and an end to Defense Department discrimination; "

Tax Cuts & Deficit: "Addressing the deficit requires fair and shared sacrifice of all Americans for the common good."

There is lots more where that came from. In fact Bill Clinton worked to execute most all of his platform and it reading it again today, it makes him and the Dems look brilliant. That 1992 Platform could be copied and pasted into today and it would be highly relevant.

So Kotter... you are pretty much an idiot if you voted for Clinton and then turned on him for implementing his actual platform.

Seriously. How can you possibly teach our kids anything related to government when you "think" like this?

jAZ
03-11-2008, 12:30 AM
Oh and get off the Obama bus before you try to throw him under it for implementing his own platform (if he wins). It's not worth it to have you set him up just so you can tear him down when he succeeds in doing exactly what he says he will.

Mr. Kotter
03-11-2008, 12:35 AM
You really need to get better at voting then. This is "The Third Way" 1992 Platform...

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29610


Universal Healthcare: "All Americans should have universal access to quality, affordable health care—not as a privilege, but as a right."

Defense cuts: "Our economy needs both the people and the funds released from defense at the Cold War's end."

Civil & Equal Rights: "provide civil rights protection for gay men and lesbians and an end to Defense Department discrimination; "

Tax Cuts & Deficit: "Addressing the deficit requires fair and shared sacrifice of all Americans for the common good."

There is lots more where that came from. In fact Bill Clinton worked to execute most all of his platform and it reading it again today, it makes him and the Dems look brilliant. That 1992 Platform could be copied and pasted into today and it would be highly relevant.

Apparently, you have difficulty making distinctions between rhetoric and campaign speeches spoken for public consumption, and written "platforms" which few voters read....and even fewer take to heart, given the history of partisan platforms.

:hmmm:

Oh and get off the Obama bus before you try to throw him under it for implementing his own platform (if he wins). It's not worth it to have you set him up just so you can tear him down when he succeeds in doing exactly what he says he will.

Congress, even a Democratic one.....won't allow him his more grandiose proposals......so your point is, really, irrelevant.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-11-2008, 01:05 AM
Deal, bitch. :thumb:

Hamas, you on board? :shrug:


:hmmm:

If they screw Obama, I'll be there.

patteeu
03-11-2008, 06:36 AM
Give me a break. It's in part, and he's in part....precisely to blame for where we are: some saying that a NY governor's "private indiscretions" should not matter, and that we ought not be TOO concerned about today's adolescent....fascination with oral sex.....in MIDDLE SCHOOLS everywhere.

Where are you seeing this? I don't think I've seen anyone say either of these things. I'm sure it's happened, but I haven't seen it. Spitzer didn't even give himself a break.

patteeu
03-11-2008, 06:36 AM
So you were an Obama supporter, and now you're rooting for the demise of the Democratic party? :spock:

He'll be back on board as soon as Obama and Hillary clean up their mess and it looks like Obama could be headed to a victory.

patteeu
03-11-2008, 06:38 AM
Wait... clear this up... cause I don't think any collection of search terms will point me to the right answer here.

What "lies" occured after 1992 and were exposed by 1994 caused you to root not only for Clinton's destruction but the entire party's destruction?

Just one clear example is enough.

I think it's pretty obvious. He was upset that Clinton reneged on his campaign promise to end discrimination against gays in the military. ;)

patteeu
03-11-2008, 06:40 AM
There's no way the Democrats take this to the convention. They'll let the rest of the states vote out and then fall in line behind the delegate leader. At that point, Clinton will have no choice but to back off. She'd rather hold on to her considerable power than be responsible for starting a civil war within the party.

Unfortunately, I agree with you and jAZ. This will be settled before the convention.

patteeu
03-11-2008, 06:44 AM
You really need to get better at voting then. This is "The Third Way" 1992 Platform...

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29610


Universal Healthcare: "All Americans should have universal access to quality, affordable health careónot as a privilege, but as a right."

Defense cuts: "Our economy needs both the people and the funds released from defense at the Cold War's end."

Civil & Equal Rights: "provide civil rights protection for gay men and lesbians and an end to Defense Department discrimination; "

Tax Cuts & Deficit: "Addressing the deficit requires fair and shared sacrifice of all Americans for the common good."

There is lots more where that came from. In fact Bill Clinton worked to execute most all of his platform and it reading it again today, it makes him and the Dems look brilliant. That 1992 Platform could be copied and pasted into today and it would be highly relevant.

Clinton's defense cuts were brilliant alright. That's what put Don Rumsfeld in the position of going to war with the Army he had rather than the one he might have wanted. And now, in the middle of a war, you want to do it again? Insane.

jAZ
03-11-2008, 07:49 AM
Apparently, you have difficulty making distinctions between rhetoric and campaign speeches spoken for public consumption, and written "platforms" which few voters read....and even fewer take to heart, given the history of partisan platforms.
We aren't talking about "voters" here. We are talking about you. You are admitting that you voted without having any clue what his platform was, and then blamed HIM when he enacted it. Like I said... and rather kindly at that... You really need to get better at voting.

And for our nation's future, please, PLEASE stop teaching our kids anything government related.

jAZ
03-11-2008, 08:03 AM
Clinton's defense cuts were brilliant alright. That's what put Don Rumsfeld in the position of going to war with the Army he had rather than the one he might have wanted. And now, in the middle of a war, you want to do it again? Insane.

Yes, Rumsfeld is the man we shoudl ALL listen to about Iraq War pre-planning and decision making.

:rolleyes:

BucEyedPea
03-11-2008, 08:13 AM
Yes, Rumsfeld is the man we shoudl ALL listen to about Iraq War pre-planning and decision making.

:rolleyes:

At the very least, if a man like Rumsfeld knew what we had was inadequate, then he shouldn't have been one of those on the side of going into Iraq. Particularly, when Bush Sr's Nat'l Security Advisor Scowcroft warned of what it would take to do Iraq. But then, he was in the "cakewalk" and "slamdunk" camp of believers.

patteeu
03-11-2008, 08:28 AM
It was irresponsible for Bill Clinton to cut/slow our defense programs in the 90's and it would be even more irresponsible to do so now, when we are in the middle of a global war.

beer bacon
03-11-2008, 08:31 AM
If we could just find some type of eternal war, perhaps if we declared war on an abstract idea, rather than something solid and physical, we could eternally, year after year, increase "defense" funding.

patteeu
03-11-2008, 08:36 AM
If we could just find some type of eternal war, perhaps if we declared war on an abstract idea, rather than something solid and physical, we could eternally, year after year, increase "defense" funding.

Are you another one of the guys who are too dumb to know what our war is about?

tiptap
03-11-2008, 09:16 AM
Are you another one of the guys who are too dumb to know what our war is about?

Are you another one of the guys who are too dumb to know that oil is what the Iragi war is about?

BucEyedPea
03-11-2008, 09:17 AM
Are you another one of the guys who are too dumb to know that oil is what the Iragi war is about?

Oh well, he supports that reason. Even said so. Killing for oil, instead of national defense.

tiptap
03-11-2008, 09:20 AM
We understand that there is about a third of the nation that is frightened to death that the terrorists are going to get them. There isn't any cost/benefit analysis of the real physical threat to the US. The two trillion price tag has bought us so little. We think there are better ways to get this done. The approach had 5 years to see real results and what we get is that it will take decades with your approach. I don't want to keep financing such shitty results.

tiptap
03-11-2008, 09:22 AM
Oh well, he supports that reason. Even said so. Killing for oil, instead of national defense.

Except he prefers the deception of terrorists for the Presidential Campaign rather than oil. It is fear not resources that clips the reasoning of the average person.

beer bacon
03-11-2008, 09:23 AM
Are you another one of the guys who are too dumb to know what our war is about?

You are the best poster.

I am just glad that we went to Iraq. If not, we would all be eating yellow cake right now.

patteeu
03-11-2008, 09:42 AM
Are you another one of the guys who are too dumb to know that oil is what the Iragi war is about?

LOL, no, BEP will testify on my behalf.

Oh well, he supports that reason. Even said so. Killing for oil, instead of national defense.

See. (minus that last part of course because oil is national defense)

patteeu
03-11-2008, 09:46 AM
Except he prefers the deception of terrorists for the Presidential Campaign rather than oil. It is fear not resources that clips the reasoning of the average person.

Terrorists are real too. If radical islamists in the ME were Canadians instead (even pretentious liberal french-speaking Canadians from Quebec), we wouldn't be fighting there even though oil would still be very important to us.