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Carlota69
03-12-2008, 02:35 PM
(CNN) Mississippi Democratic voters were sharply divided among racial lines in Tuesday's primary, exit polls indicate.

As has been the case in many primary states, Obama won overwhelming support from African-American voters. They went for him over Clinton 91-9 percent.

But Mississippi white voters overwhelmingly backed the New York senator, supporting her over Obama 72 percent to 21 percent.
According to the Associated Press, only two other primary states were as racially polarized neighboring Alabama, and Clinton's former home state of Arkansas.

The exit polls also indicated roughly 30 percent of Mississippi Democratic voters said race was an important factor in their vote, and 60 percent of those voters supported Obama.
In Ohio, roughly 1 in 5 voters said race factored into their decision. Roughly 60 percent of those voters picked Clinton over Obama.

beer bacon
03-12-2008, 02:44 PM
You can't look at Mississippi and draw conclusions about the rest of the country. Alabama broke down in the same way, and that was back on Super Tuesday. Obama went on to dominate in a bunch of western states that are 95+ percent white.

There are always going to be issues of race and gender, but they different from state to state. In some places, like Mississippi, they continue to be a huge problem. That is not true for all states.

HolmeZz
03-12-2008, 02:47 PM
The election has broken pretty widely on racial grounds in the Southern states.

Carlota69
03-12-2008, 02:54 PM
The election has broken pretty widely on racial grounds in the Southern states.

Agreed, but it has also broken along racial lines in other states as well. In Nevada, out of about 178 people voting for Obama, myself and about 10 others were white or otherwise. The rest were black. The overwhelming majority in the room I was in.

Also, he wins all the major cities that have high black populations. He may not win the state, but he wins the highly populated areas, Dallas and Houston an example out of Texas.

In NY, a black woman stated that she thought Hillary was abetter choice, she loved Bill but voted for Obama because he was black.

In fairness, there is the other side of the coin. Bubba in deep dark Georgia who would never vote for a black man. And women voting for Hillary based on sex.

But for people to say Bill Clinton is the one who introduced race into this election is just ignorant and blind.

noa
03-12-2008, 02:58 PM
I think there's a difference between saying that Obama is getting huge support from the black population and saying that the only reason he is successful is because he's black. That's what Ferraro was saying. If she just said "Well, he benefits hugely from the black vote," then to me, that's a fair observation. In the same regard, Clinton benefits from the Hispanic vote (or at least she was at one point). However, Ferraro said he wouldn't be where he is right now if he weren't black. The problem with that statement is that its pure conjecture. Its not factual. We have no way of knowing that. So why say it? It accomplishes nothing and only tries to diminish his achievements.

So I don't think anyone is saying that race "has nothing to do with it." I think the point is that it is a factor, but one of many, and to say that Obama is only where he is now BECAUSE of race is stretching it too far IMO. The black vote is a very important factor, and like you say, people are voting for him just because of his race, but that overstates their power in the election.

HolmeZz
03-12-2008, 03:06 PM
But for people to say Bill Clinton is the one who introduced race into this election is just ignorant and blind.

He didn't, but he exacerbated it in an attempt to downplay Obama's success. And Ferraro did the same.

Carlota69
03-12-2008, 03:08 PM
I think there's a difference between saying that Obama is getting huge support from the black population and saying that the only reason he is successful is because he's black. That's what Ferraro was saying. If she just said "Well, he benefits hugely from the black vote," then to me, that's a fair observation. In the same regard, Clinton benefits from the Hispanic vote (or at least she was at one point). However, Ferraro said he wouldn't be where he is right now if he weren't black. The problem with that statement is that its pure conjecture. Its not factual. We have no way of knowing that. So why say it? It accomplishes nothing and only tries to diminish his achievements.

So I don't think anyone is saying that race "has nothing to do with it." I think the point is that it is a factor, but one of many, and to say that Obama is only where he is now BECAUSE of race is stretching it too far IMO. The black vote is a very important factor, and like you say, people are voting for him just because of his race, but that overstates their power in the election.

And I agree with the notion that it is absolutely ridiculous to say that he has a advantage because he is black. He doesn't. In fact, I think he has overcome some very large hurdles.

I have heard people say race shouldnt be talked about in this election, and that Bill C. is the one who introduced it, when in fact, it was intorduced the moment a man of color entered the race.

Plus, the moment someone outside the black community brings it up, its racists. That part sux.

beer bacon
03-12-2008, 03:08 PM
Agreed, but it has also broken along racial lines in other states as well. In Nevada, out of about 178 people voting for Obama, myself and about 10 others were white or otherwise. The rest were black. The overwhelming majority in the room I was in.

Also, he wins all the major cities that have high black populations. He may not win the state, but he wins the highly populated areas, Dallas and Houston an example out of Texas.

In NY, a black woman stated that she thought Hillary was abetter choice, she loved Bill but voted for Obama because he was black.

In fairness, there is the other side of the coin. Bubba in deep dark Georgia who would never vote for a black man. And women voting for Hillary based on sex.

But for people to say Bill Clinton is the one who introduced race into this election is just ignorant and blind.

Barack brought race into this election by being black. Hillary brought gender in this election by being a woman. The only way we are going to get around these issues is by only having white, male candidates.

Obama has not ran as a "black" candidate. He isn't viable because he is black. He is viable because he himself and his policy stances have a wide range of appeal.

Obama doesn't go out on his stump speeches and make appeals to race. In his response to Ferraro's comments, Barack went the exact opposite direction from making race a central issue. The point he did make was that gender and racial politics, identity politics, have no place in a democratic election.

It was Ferraro in her reply to Obama that returned back to issues of racism. It was she that claimed it was reverse-racism to claim her original comments, as Obama said, were "absurd." the Hillary campaign is going to continue these type of divide and conquer politics, not because they themselves are racists, but because they think these type of politics will increase their advantage in places like central Pennsylvania.

Carlota69
03-12-2008, 03:09 PM
He didn't, but he exacerbated it in an attempt to downplay what Obama's success. And Ferraro did the same.

Fair, but they say and said at the time that he introduced it. He didnt, that's my point.

Carlota69
03-12-2008, 03:13 PM
Barack brought race into this election by being black. Hillary brought gender in this election by being a woman. The only way we are going to get around these issues is by only having white, male candidates.

Obama has not ran as a "black" candidate. He isn't viable because he is black. He is viable because he himself and his policy stances have a wide range of appeal.

Obama doesn't go out on his stump speeches and make appeals to race. In his response to Ferraro's comments, Barack went the exact opposite direction from making race a central issue. The point he did make was that gender and racial politics, identity politics, have no place in a democratic election.

It was Ferraro in her reply to Obama that returned back to issues of racism. It was she that claimed it was reverse-racism to claim her original comments, as Obama said, were "absurd." the Hillary campaign is going to continue these type of divide and conquer politics, not because they themselves are racists, but because they think these type of politics will increase their advantage in places like central Pennsylvania.

Absolutely, but this article isnt about what Barry is doing or saying. The point is that a percentage of voters are voting based on race. And the vote, in some states and some cities, is very racially divided.

noa
03-12-2008, 03:15 PM
Well, anyone who says race shouldn't be talked about is trying to be the thought police and will lose that argument every time.
Race should be talked about as long as it is a motivation for voters to (dis)like any candidate.
However, I have to disagree that any time someone outside the black community brings up race is labeled a racist. Right now, the reaction against Ferraro, IMO, isn't because she is white, its because what she said is just silly. In general, though, just turn on the TV Sunday morning and you'll see a bunch of talking heads who are white talking about the black vote and the significance of a black candidate. They aren't called racists because they are talking about it in a realistic manner, acknowledging current trends and facts. Ferraro wasn't talking about anything realistic, she was just guessing what would happen if Obama was white, and nobody has the answer to that, so its silly to that you are certain that if he was white, or a woman, he wouldn't be there. Why inject this type of argument into the election? Its an argument that nobody can possibly win on either side.

Carlota69
03-12-2008, 03:21 PM
Well, anyone who says race shouldn't be talked about is trying to be the thought police and will lose that argument every time.
Race should be talked about as long as it is a motivation for voters to (dis)like any candidate.
However, I have to disagree that any time someone outside the black community brings up race is labeled a racist. Right now, the reaction against Ferraro, IMO, isn't because she is white, its because what she said is just silly. In general, though, just turn on the TV Sunday morning and you'll see a bunch of talking heads who are white talking about the black vote and the significance of a black candidate. They aren't called racists because they are talking about it in a realistic manner, acknowledging current trends and facts. Ferraro wasn't talking about anything realistic, she was just guessing what would happen if Obama was white, and nobody has the answer to that, so its silly to that you are certain that if he was white, or a woman, he wouldn't be there. Why inject this type of argument into the election? Its an argument that nobody can possibly win on either side.

And she is obvioulsy an idiot for saying it because of the climate. She just watched an Obama aide get canned for calling Clinton a 'Monster". Dumb, just dumb. She should be canned for lack of common sense on all levels.

dirk digler
03-12-2008, 03:26 PM
Barack brought race into this election by being black. Hillary brought gender in this election by being a woman. The only way we are going to get around these issues is by only having white, male candidates.

Obama has not ran as a "black" candidate. He isn't viable because he is black. He is viable because he himself and his policy stances have a wide range of appeal.

Obama doesn't go out on his stump speeches and make appeals to race. In his response to Ferraro's comments, Barack went the exact opposite direction from making race a central issue. The point he did make was that gender and racial politics, identity politics, have no place in a democratic election.

It was Ferraro in her reply to Obama that returned back to issues of racism. It was she that claimed it was reverse-racism to claim her original comments, as Obama said, were "absurd." the Hillary campaign is going to continue these type of divide and conquer politics, not because they themselves are racists, but because they think these type of politics will increase their advantage in places like central Pennsylvania.

Yep totally agree and great post

beer bacon
03-12-2008, 03:36 PM
And she is obvioulsy an idiot for saying it because of the climate. She just watched an Obama aide get canned for calling Clinton a 'Monster". Dumb, just dumb. She should be canned for lack of common sense on all levels.

I don't think she was stupid for saying it. Hillary's campaign doesn't want the public to believe they are racists. They are trying to do two things:

1) They are trying to isolate Obama as the "black" candidate. This is the same thing Bill did in SC. It isn't about taking Obama's support from the AA community. It is about tarnishing his appeal to the rest of the party. Hillary's campaign wants Obama to get agitated and angry about Ferrraro's comments. They think they can make the rest of the primary race, isolate Barack, and pull more voters over to their side.

2) It is about appealing to rural and "blue-collar" democrats. Most of these people don't see themselves as racist, but if you asked them how they felt about affirmative-action, most would be pretty negative. Hillary is making a case to them that Obama isn't doing well because he is a good candidate, but because of affirmative-action politics.

dirk digler
03-12-2008, 03:39 PM
Obama addresses race

by John McCormick and Mark Silva
During a week in which questions of race and gender have risen to the forefront of the presidential campaign, Sen. Barack Obama paused today to reflect on its potential impact on the campaign.
“There will be some voters for whom the fact that I’m African American means I’ve got to work a little harder to make the case,’’ Obama said today. “They may be less inclined to give me the benefit of the doubt.
“Just as, in fairness to Sen. Clinton, there may be some voters who require her to work a little harder to make the case because she’s a woman,’’ the Illinois senator said at a press conference in Chicago. “But there are probably some people who give me the benefit of the doubt because I’m black and there probably are some who give Sen. Clinton the benefit of the doubt because she’s a woman.
“But ultimately, the bottom line is the overwhelming majority of Americans are going to make these decisions based on who they think is going to be the best president,’’ he said. “I have absolute confidence in that. And I have absolute confidence that if I’m doing my job, if I’m delivering my message, that there are very few voters out there that I can’t win over.’’
The question arose after Geraldine Ferraro, who was the Democratic Party’s candidate for vice president in 1984 and the first woman to appear on a major party’s presidential ticket, said in an interview last week that Obama would not have gotten to where he is in the campaign today if he were white, or if he were a woman. Ferraro this week said she was sorry if her words were interpreted as “racist,’’ but reiterated that what she was trying to say is that Obama has gotten where is “because he is black.’’
Declining to describe her remarks as racist, Obama called them simply “ridiculous.’’
“People say things during the heat of campaigns’’ Obama said. “What I’m more concerned is for the Democratic Party as a whole, but also the country as a whole, not to get drawn up into this slicing and dicing of the electorate into black, white, male and female.’’
Cnvincing voters of his worthiness for the presidency remains his own challenge, he said.
“My general attitude is that if I’m not winning them over, it’s my fault,’’ the senator said. “I haven’t done something right. It’s not because of their attitudes. It’s because I haven’t connected, I haven’t spoken to their hopes and dreams and aspirations in a way that makes them feel confident that I’m going to deliver for them.
“That’s how it should be,’’ he said. “The presidency is a hard job and there are no excuses for non-performance. When the American people entrust you with not just their own safety and security and prosperity, but the futures of their children and their grandchildren, they have the right to run you through the paces. And I feel privileged to be getting run through the paces so well.”

Obama was asked if he believes that Ferraro’s comments are racist.
“I’m always hesitant to throw around words like racist,’’ he said. “I don’t think she intended them in that way. I’ve noted that today she was suggesting that somehow we have made that claim and in fact argued it repeatedly we’ve said that anybody who criticizes me is making racial comments, racially offensive comments.
"I would defy anybody to look through the record over the last year and a half or the last year and couple months and find one instance in which I have said some criticism is racially based,'' he said. "That is not something that I’ve done,.
"Here’s what I do believe,'' Obama said. "I think that her comments were ridiculous. I think they were wrong-headed. I think they’re not borne out of our history or by the facts. The notion that it is a great advantage for me to be an African American named Barack Obama in pursuit of the presidency, I think, is not a view that is commonly shared by the general public.
“If you pulled out a handbook of how to weigh your assets and liabilities in a presidential race,’’ he said, “I don’t think my name or my skin color would be in the asset column.
“Part of the idea of this campaign is that we can get beyond his and focus on what we have in common,’’ he said. “Now, it’s hard to do. I understand it’s hard to do. I understand it’s very tempting to look at exit polls and take a look at how the votes are breaking down and who’s going where. I don’t want to deny the role of race and gender in our society.
“They’re there and they’re powerful. But I don’t think it’s productive. I don’t think identity politics has served the Democratic Party well. I think it’s been an enormous distraction. When we are in these conversations, it means that people are not recognizing their common concerns around health care, their common interests in getting decent jobs, their common interests in making sure that we’re not loading up the national debt for the next generation. So to that extent, I think it was an unfortunate remark and I said so. It encourages and feeds into the divisive politics that ultimately does not serve us well…
“Here is what I believe,’’ he said. “The American people are looking for a president who cares about them who is listening to them who is fighting for them and who can deliver on some of the critical issues that they are facing. If I make that case, I will win. If I don’t make that case, I will lose.’’

stevieray
03-12-2008, 05:06 PM
race doesn't have a thing to do with it..well other than the obama groupthink rooted here..need proof?

Be damn glad that Colin Powell isn't running on the Republican ticket, because it would be nothing short of a landsilide...

HolmeZz
03-12-2008, 05:17 PM
Somebody has their Google Alert set to 'race'.


Be damn glad that Colin Powell isn't running on the Republican ticket, because it would be nothing short of a landsilide...

Powell wouldn't even have much of a base within his own party, let alone once it got to a General. Dude is pro-choice, gun control, and affirmative action. And black. He wouldn't make it out of a Republican primary, and that's ignoring the fact he isn't a politician. I don't think anyone could even picture him running for President.

stevieray
03-12-2008, 05:24 PM
Somebody has their Google Alert set to 'race'.



Powell wouldn't even have much of a base within his own party, let alone once it got to a General. Dude is pro-choice, gun control, and affirmative action. And black. He wouldn't make it out of a Republican primary, and that's ignoring the fact he isn't a politician.

stfu limp dick, if I want to engae your coward ass in coversation, I'll do so..

people who advocate violence aganist women children are specail in prison..

YOU KNOW WHAT I"M SAYIN HOLMEZZ?????

#### off

HolmeZz
03-12-2008, 05:27 PM
stfu limp dick, if I want to engae your coward ass in coversation, I'll do so..

people who advocate violence aganist women children are specail in prison

YOU KNOW WHAT I"M SAYIN HOLMEZZ

#### off

Are you on crack?

dirk digler
03-12-2008, 05:31 PM
race doesn't have a thing to do with it..well other than the obama groupthink rooted here..need proof?

Be damn glad that Colin Powell isn't running on the Republican ticket, because it would be nothing short of a landsilide...

I think race plays a part but what else stevie do you believe it is?

Also I agree with Holmezz I don't think Colin Powell would make it to the nominee for various reasons. I do think though that Colin Powell would be a very good POTUS

banyon
03-12-2008, 05:39 PM
race doesn't have a thing to do with it..well other than the obama groupthink rooted here..need proof?
Be damn glad that Colin Powell isn't running on the Republican ticket, because it would be nothing short of a landsilide...

Yeah, it's all race and the left groupthink. That's why Al Sharpton has sailed so easily from political landslide to landslide.

stevieray
03-12-2008, 05:42 PM
I think race plays a part but what else stevie do you believe it is?

Also I agree with Holmezz I don't think Colin Powell would make it to the nominee for various reasons. I do think though that Colin Powell would be a very good POTUS

Really? JCS? SOS? It wouldn't be the first time amilitary man held office..Wake up man, both Bushes have appointed more people of color into their Cabinets than any other President....the psuedo race card that you think the right employs isn't there...if he ran at this juncture, I guarantee that people would get behind him

dirk digler
03-12-2008, 06:46 PM
Really? JCS? SOS? It wouldn't be the first time amilitary man held office..Wake up man, both Bushes have appointed more people of color into their Cabinets than any other President....the psuedo race card that you think the right employs isn't there...if he ran at this juncture, I guarantee that people would get behind him

Yeah and honestly IMHO it would have less to do with race but more to do with his liberal leanings. The same thing happened to Rudy this year. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be a very good POTUS because I believe he would. IMO if he wanted to run for POTUS he would need to switch parties.

A moderate Republican, Powell is well known for his willingness to support liberal or centrist causes. He is pro-choice regarding abortion, in support of affirmative action, and in favor of "reasonable" gun control. Powell was also instrumental in the implementation of the military's Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy.

beer bacon
03-12-2008, 07:41 PM
I have always respected Powell. My problem with him would be the whole yellow cake thing. He would have to prove to me that he wouldn't be making those type of gaffes while in office. If he could do that, I would approve of him as President.

Logical
03-12-2008, 07:43 PM
Absolutely, but this article isnt about what Barry is doing or saying. The point is that a percentage of voters are voting based on race. And the vote, in some states and some cities, is very racially divided.
What is the point of bringing it up at all, racism. This thread would not exist if not for racism. Now I am not saying you are a racist, merely that the topic by the writer of the article is and that is too bad.

Cochise
03-12-2008, 07:45 PM
What is the point of bringing it up at all, racism. This thread would not exist if not for racism. Now I am not saying you are a racist, merely that the topic by the writer of the article is and that is too bad.

It's not racist to discuss what role race has in things

Logical
03-12-2008, 08:27 PM
stfu limp dick, if I want to engae your coward ass in coversation, I'll do so..

people who advocate violence aganist women children are specail in prison..

YOU KNOW WHAT I"M SAYIN HOLMEZZ?????

#### off
WTF, are you drunk Stevie, if not you want to provide a link so that I won't think that is just pure slander?

Logical
03-12-2008, 08:29 PM
It's not racist to discuss what role race has in things


I don't think you get my point, if racism did not still exist the article would not exist.

sportsman1
03-12-2008, 08:49 PM
In states such as Mississippi they haven't really been able to finacially recover from the Civil War. MS was economically sound prior 1861. Most white people blame the black people for this ( even though its lame but what else are they to think in their shoes?). That draws race into it for them, as each race feels as if the other is constantly out to get them. The post Civil War era has been shitty for them and thats why they have failed to advance past race that like most of the country has.

Mr. Kotter
03-12-2008, 08:55 PM
Carlotta....

What per centage of white women, especially those over the age of 30....voted for Hillary?

And what should we presume from that? Might reverse-sexism be the culprit?

:hmmm:

HolmeZz
03-12-2008, 10:06 PM
Carlotta....

What per centage of white women, especially those over the age of 30....voted for Hillary?

And what should we presume from that? Might reverse-sexism be the culprit?

:hmmm:

It is kinda funny, actually. From the standpoint of being a majority, being white and a female should be the most advantageous combo as it encompasses a wider population.

jAZ
03-12-2008, 10:57 PM
Barack brought race into this election by being black. Hillary brought gender in this election by being a woman. The only way we are going to get around these issues is by only having white, male candidates.

Obama has not ran as a "black" candidate. He isn't viable because he is black. He is viable because he himself and his policy stances have a wide range of appeal.

Obama doesn't go out on his stump speeches and make appeals to race. In his response to Ferraro's comments, Barack went the exact opposite direction from making race a central issue. The point he did make was that gender and racial politics, identity politics, have no place in a democratic election.

It was Ferraro in her reply to Obama that returned back to issues of racism. It was she that claimed it was reverse-racism to claim her original comments, as Obama said, were "absurd." the Hillary campaign is going to continue these type of divide and conquer politics, not because they themselves are racists, but because they think these type of politics will increase their advantage in places like central Pennsylvania.

You crushed this one. Nice post.

Mr. Kotter
03-12-2008, 11:10 PM
It is kinda funny, actually. From the standpoint of being a majority, being white and a female should be the most advantageous combo as it encompasses a wider population.

It should.

Yet, most obviously....what it really points to is her "unelectability."

The question becomes will the party realize this fact BEFORE or AFTER they choose their nominee.

:shake:

Ultra Peanut
03-13-2008, 02:34 AM
The Clintons made their bed when, before they even lost, they started trying to paint South Carolina as irrelevant because it's a black state. They killed off any semblance of black support the moment they stooped to that level.

This Ferraro bullshit is just a continuation of what her surrogates have been doing since the day after New Hampshire.

patteeu
03-13-2008, 09:44 AM
Most of these people don't see themselves as racist, but if you asked them how they felt about affirmative-action, most would be pretty negative.

:spock:

patteeu
03-13-2008, 09:50 AM
Powell wouldn't even have much of a base within his own party, let alone once it got to a General. Dude is pro-choice, gun control, and affirmative action. And black. He wouldn't make it out of a Republican primary, and that's ignoring the fact he isn't a politician. I don't think anyone could even picture him running for President.

Powell would have enormous success as a Republican candidate for President despite ideological differences with significant segments of the party for the same reasons that Obama is having success. He's competent, he's articulate, and, most critically, he's black. A white Colin Powell wouldn't have a shot at the Republican nomination, much less the Presidency.

I wonder how many Obama supporters think that Clarence Thomas' race was a critical factor in his nomination to the SCOTUS?

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 09:51 AM
:spock:

Do you want to me explain it again Mr. memi? Many white people do not consider themselves racist, but they do consider affirmative-action a sort of bigotry that discriminates against them. If Obama is couched in a light that makes him appear as an affirmative-action candidate that is unfairly garnering votes that the white candidate should be getting, many white people will sympathize with it.

Want me to draw a diagram?

patteeu
03-13-2008, 10:00 AM
You crushed this one. Nice post.

Except for

- the laughable part about how Obama's policy stances have a wide range of appeal. I'd bet that most Obama supporters don't know a lot about his policy stances,

- and the part about Obama not being viable because he's black. (In another thread you said something about how it's impossible to prove that he'd be failing if he were white. By the same token, you can't prove he'd be viable if he were white).

patteeu
03-13-2008, 10:03 AM
Do you want to me explain it again Mr. memi? Many white people do not consider themselves racist, but they do consider affirmative-action a sort of bigotry that discriminates against them. If Obama is couched in a light that makes him appear as an affirmative-action candidate that is unfairly garnering votes that the white candidate should be getting, many white people will sympathize with it.

Want me to draw a diagram?

I think the way you equate opposition to affirmative action to racism is offensive. This is just more proof of Ferraro's contention that TeamObama is quick to level the racism charge (even if Obama himself refrains from doing so directly). :spock:

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 10:11 AM
I think the way you equate opposition to affirmative action to racism is offensive. This is just more proof of Ferraro's contention that TeamObama is quick to level the racism charge (even if Obama himself refrains from doing so directly). :spock:

I just wish black people would just realize how easy they have it in this country and let a white person have the Presidency for once. You with me Mr. memi?

Chiefnj2
03-13-2008, 10:20 AM
At least nobody in the Barak camp is playing the race card:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM

patteeu
03-13-2008, 11:56 AM
I just wish black people would just realize how easy they have it in this country and let a white person have the Presidency for once. You with me Mr. memi?

I don't blame you for changing the subject.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 11:57 AM
I don't blame you for changing the subject.

I was mocking you. I think it was still on topic.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 11:58 AM
At least nobody in the Barak camp is playing the race card:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM

This guy isn't part of Obama's campaign and never was.

patteeu
03-13-2008, 11:59 AM
At least nobody in the Barak camp is playing the race card:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM

That should be a thread of it's own. That's some pretty audacious stuff from the guy who gave us The Audacity of Hope (by way of the Illinois politician he mentored).

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 12:01 PM
That should be a thread of it's own. That's some pretty audacious stuff from the guy who gave us The Audacity of Hope (by way of the Illinois politician he mentored).

How many mentors does Obama have patteeu?

patteeu
03-13-2008, 12:03 PM
This guy isn't part of Obama's campaign and never was.

That's got to be some of the weakest spin we've had during this entire election cycle. No, he's not paid by the campaign, but what's that got to do with it? This guy is THE reason why Obama attends that church. HolmeZz was irritated when people called Bill Ayers an Obama mentor, but there's way to argue with that description of this guy. The theme of Obama's book, The Audacity of Hope, came from one of this guy's sermons.

patteeu
03-13-2008, 12:03 PM
How many mentors does Obama have patteeu?

At least one too many, it would appear.

Chiefnj2
03-13-2008, 12:03 PM
This guy isn't part of Obama's campaign and never was.

Is he Obama's spiritual leader?

vailpass
03-13-2008, 12:08 PM
This guy isn't part of Obama's campaign and never was.

Quit while you're behind kid.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 12:11 PM
Is he Obama's spiritual leader?

He has been retired for a while, so no. He is not Obama's pastor and he is not part of Obama's campaign.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 12:14 PM
HolmeZz was irritated when people called Bill Ayers an Obama mentor.

I am your mentor.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 12:17 PM
He has been retired for a while, so no. He is not Obama's pastor and he is not part of Obama's campaign.


A while? You should probably check your propa, er, facts. Apparently, he announced his retirement in 2007 and did his last sermon a little over a month ago on 2/10/08. He's technically still with the church until May 2008 but he's on 'sabbatical' until then for some reason. :doh!:

And yes, Obama has called him his 'sounding board' about issues so he has been an adviser to him in some capacity while formulating his views.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

Carlota69
03-13-2008, 12:19 PM
Carlotta....

What per centage of white women, especially those over the age of 30....voted for Hillary?

And what should we presume from that? Might reverse-sexism be the culprit?

:hmmm:

Absolutely. I think the article addresses that. This election is so intersting (and very passionate)) becasue of all these factors.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 12:21 PM
A while? You should probably check your propa, er, facts. Apparently, he announced his retirement in 2007 and did his last sermon a little over a month ago on 2/10/08. He's technically still with the church until May 2008 but he's on 'sabbatical' until then for some reason. :doh!:

And yes, Obama has called him his 'sounding board' about issues so he has been an adviser to him in some capacity while formulating his views.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

I was wrong about this. I was thinking he had been retired since at least 2006. My bad.

I would still like to know what negatives the above video brings into Obama's campaign. What evidence you have that these are Obama's personal beliefs, and what evidence you have that his campaign is based off these values.

Chiefnj2
03-13-2008, 12:29 PM
What evidence you have that these are Obama's personal beliefs, and what evidence you have that his campaign is based off these values.

"The title of Senator and Presidential candidate Barack Obama's book The Audacity of Hope was taken from a sermon written by Wright.[5] Obama first met Wright and joined his church while he was working as a community organizer prior to attending Harvard Law School. Obama's connection to Wright first drew attention in a February 2007 Rolling Stone article which described a speech in which Wright forcefully spoke about racism against African-Americans.[6] Citing the article and fears that any further controversy would harm the church, Obama scrapped plans of having Wright introduce him at his Presidential announcement. [7]"

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 12:36 PM
I was wrong about this. I was thinking he had been retired since at least 2006. My bad.

I would still like to know what negatives the above video brings into Obama's campaign. What evidence you have that these are Obama's personal beliefs, and what evidence you have that his campaign is based off these values.

Let him tell you himself:

Obama says that rather than advising him on strategy, Wright helps keep his priorities straight and his moral compass calibrated.

"What I value most about Pastor Wright is not his day-to-day political advice," Obama said. "He's much more of a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking as truthfully about what I believe as possible and that I'm not losing myself in some of the hype and hoopla and stress that's involved in national politics."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/profiles/chi-070121-relig_wright,0,1492700,full.story