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memyselfI
03-13-2008, 05:47 AM
I believe he's doing it and has for a while and I think it will backfire on him as it should. He'll need white men who read this publication if he is going to win.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120536677319031953.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks


Obama and the Race Card
March 13, 2008

Is it just us, or does Barack Obama seem a mite too quick to play the race card when facing criticism from political opponents?

In recent days, the Obama camp has been demanding an apology from Geraldine Ferraro, the former Vice Presidential candidate and current Hillary Clinton supporter who last week let slip that, "If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman of any color, he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."


Though Ms. Ferraro resigned from the Clinton campaign yesterday, her remarks reveal little more than a firm grasp of the obvious, even if she could have found a less artless way to express herself. There is no disputing that Mr. Obama's skin color has been a political boon for him to date. And the suggestion that saying so aloud betrays racial animus implies that only the Illinois Senator can discuss the issue of race in regard to his candidacy.

Back in January, the Obama campaign was on similarly shaky ground when it accused Mrs. Clinton of belittling Martin Luther King Jr. by stating that "it took a President" to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Mrs. Clinton was stating a fact, not slighting King, and the context in which she uttered the statement made that perfectly clear.

We're not suggesting that the Obama campaign has never been justified in crying foul over racially tinged remarks out of the Clinton camp. When Bill Clinton gratuitously invoked Jesse Jackson after Mr. Obama won the South Carolina primary, he was clearly trying to define the Senator's victory in narrowly racial terms.
[B]
But for all of Mr. Obama's soaring rhetoric about the nation's need for a post-racial politics that "brings the American people together," his campaign at times has seemed overly sensitive about race. It also seems to want it both ways. Mr. Obama claims that his brand of politics transcends race, but at the same time he's using race as a shield to shut down important and legitimate arguments.

Already, prominent Obama sympathizers, such as Harvard's Orlando Patterson, are detecting racial overtones where none exist. In a New York Times op-ed this week, Mr. Patterson said a Clinton political ad designed to question Mr. Obama's readiness as Commander in Chief contained a "racist sub-message" because none of the people depicted in the TV spot are black. Counting people of color in an ad about national security is hardly consistent with the Obama theme that "race doesn't matter."

We suppose some of the current back and forth is due to the diversity preoccupations of Democrats. But it bodes ill for an honest fall campaign if Mr. Obama and his allies are going to play the race card to blunt any criticism. A campaign in which John McCain couldn't question Mr. Obama's policies, experience and mettle without being called a racist is not what the country needs. Or wants.

Democrats have repeatedly touted the diversity of their party's White House hopefuls. And it is true that a Clinton or Obama Presidency would make gender or racial history. Americans of all backgrounds can take satisfaction in watching the country field its first black Presidential candidate with a chance to win. But voters also want their would-be Presidents properly vetted, by the media and by each other. To that end Mr. Obama would do better to focus more on answering his political critics with specifics and less on questioning their motives by crying wolf on race.

Cochise
03-13-2008, 06:13 AM
A campaign in which John McCain couldn't question Mr. Obama's policies, experience and mettle without being called a racist is not what the country needs. Or wants.


Well get effing ready, because you're going to hear 6 months of that starting really soon.

Baby Lee
03-13-2008, 06:23 AM
I think I get the dynamics at work here;


HRC - "Obama ain't really black, he's high yellah!!"

someone who has heard of BHO -"wow, that was out of line."

WSJ - "why does the Obama campaign keep whining about race?"

Ultra Peanut
03-13-2008, 06:32 AM
It's kind of amazing, watching the Clinton party line and the Republican party line merge into one.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 07:09 AM
What Ferraro said and said in 1988 was borderline racist IMO. Also Denise your boyfriend KO pretty much destroyed her in his comments last night.

Here is what Obama said about it yesterday and was 100% right.

Obama was asked if he believes that Ferraro’s comments are racist.
“I’m always hesitant to throw around words like racist,’’ he said. “I don’t think she intended them in that way. I’ve noted that today she was suggesting that somehow we have made that claim and in fact argued it repeatedly we’ve said that anybody who criticizes me is making racial comments, racially offensive comments.
"I would defy anybody to look through the record over the last year and a half or the last year and couple months and find one instance in which I have said some criticism is racially based,'' he said. "That is not something that I’ve done,.
"Here’s what I do believe,'' Obama said. "I think that her comments were ridiculous. I think they were wrong-headed. I think they’re not borne out of our history or by the facts. The notion that it is a great advantage for me to be an African American named Barack Obama in pursuit of the presidency, I think, is not a view that is commonly shared by the general public.
“If you pulled out a handbook of how to weigh your assets and liabilities in a presidential race,’’ he said, “I don’t think my name or my skin color would be in the asset column.
“Part of the idea of this campaign is that we can get beyond his and focus on what we have in common,’’ he said. “Now, it’s hard to do. I understand it’s hard to do. I understand it’s very tempting to look at exit polls and take a look at how the votes are breaking down and who’s going where. I don’t want to deny the role of race and gender in our society.
“They’re there and they’re powerful. But I don’t think it’s productive. I don’t think identity politics has served the Democratic Party well. I think it’s been an enormous distraction. When we are in these conversations, it means that people are not recognizing their common concerns around health care, their common interests in getting decent jobs, their common interests in making sure that we’re not loading up the national debt for the next generation. So to that extent, I think it was an unfortunate remark and I said so. It encourages and feeds into the divisive politics that ultimately does not serve us well…
“Here is what I believe,’’ he said. “The American people are looking for a president who cares about them who is listening to them who is fighting for them and who can deliver on some of the critical issues that they are facing. If I make that case, I will win. If I don’t make that case, I will lose.’’

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 08:18 AM
Ferraro makes racially charged comment. Obama responds that divisive racial and gender politics have no place in a democratic election. Ferraro replies that anyone that criticizes her original racially charged comments is indeed a reverse racist. Therefore, Obama is playing the race card.

Obama has not been the one playing identity politics. He has ran as the post-racial candidate. If he had limited himself by being the "black" candidate, he would have been marginalized like Jessie Jackson and Sharpton. That is exactly what the Clintons are trying to do by coming back to Obama as the "black" candidate over and over again.

The Clintons have always bought into identity politics and Hillary has played the gender card early and often. Obama has not leaned on his race.

Additionally, Ferraro is either a chronic liar or simply disingenuous. In 2006, speaking in the context of both a white woman and black man running for President in 2008, Ferraro has this to say to the NY Times:

Ms. Ferraro offered a similar sentiment. “I think it’s more realistic for a woman than it is for an African-American,” said Ms. Ferraro. “There is a certain amount of racism that exists in the United States — whether it’s conscious or not it’s true.”

“Women are 51 percent of the population,” she added.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/183170.php

This brings into questions the honesty and motivation of Ferraro. Hell, I think somewhat she has similar motivations to yourself memi.

xbarretx
03-13-2008, 08:23 AM
white or not, Obama appeals to educated young adults .. black AND WHITE. im white, and i was at the KS caucus showing my support. he wins in states that have large black pop' and people cry foul. what are the blacks not allowed to pic there canidate? heck last time i checked Hillary winning cali b/c of the latino vote didnt cause everyone to say shes only winning b/c of the mexicans....................the only thing Obama loses to Hillary on is anyone over 60. ill be voting for Obama to beat McCain come November

O-Ba-Ma .. O-Ba-Ma .. O-Ba-Ma :clap:

p.s. regardless this campaigning season has been going on for WAY to long. two years of campaigning is too much im my opinion. lets just pick our canidates vote and get it over with so the media con focus on how much the economy is screwed

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 08:26 AM
white or not, Obama appeals to educated young adults .. black AND WHITE. im white, and i was at the KS caucus showing my support. he wins in states that have large black pop' and people cry foul. what are the blacks not allowed to pic there canidate? heck last time i checked Hillary winning cali b/c of the latino vote didnt cause everyone to say shes only winning b/c of the mexicans....................the only thing Obama loses to Hillary on is anyone over 60. ill be voting for Obama to beat McCain come November

O-Ba-Ma .. O-Ba-Ma .. O-Ba-Ma :clap:

Obama needs to stop playing the race card. The only way he can do this is by contacting Michael Jackson and finding out how he dyed himself white.

Obama needs to stop playing the race card. He needs to stop being black.

Cochise
03-13-2008, 08:28 AM
It's kind of amazing, watching the Clinton party line and the Republican party line merge into one.

It's amazing that you guys supported the Clintons while they were doing the same thing, just being the Clintons, 1992-2007

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 08:32 AM
It's amazing that you guys supported the Clintons while they were doing the same thing, just being the Clintons, 1992-2007

I am sure that many of us are young enough that we weren't eligible to vote during that era.

banyon
03-13-2008, 08:37 AM
It's amazing that you guys supported the Clintons while they were doing the same thing, just being the Clintons, 1992-2007

For my part, I've never supported these f***ers.

bkkcoh
03-13-2008, 08:41 AM
It's kind of amazing, watching the Clinton party line and the Republican party line merge into one.

Curious question, who and where on the republican side have made comments similar to what GF made about Obama?

Most of the republicans and/or conservatives have avoided that issue, they have also for the most part ignore the fact of HRC being a woman, they try to attack her on her policies, not the gender.

I am not saying that there aren't a lot of people on the conservative side thinking it, but they typically aren't verbalizing it publically.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 08:46 AM
Curious question, who and where on the republican side have made comments similar to what GF made about Obama?

Most of the republicans and/or conservatives have avoided that issue, they have also for the most part ignore the fact of HRC being a woman, they try to attack her on her policies, not the gender.

I am not saying that there aren't a lot of people on the conservative side thinking it, but they typically aren't verbalizing it publically.

Remember when Bush/Rove smeared McCain all the way back into 2000 by claiming he had an illegitimate black child with a black prostitute? Republicans have been refining smear politics for a while.

The republican machine hasn't geared up for the general yet. I am betting McCain will follow what seems like the most efficient mode for smear campaigns. He will stay above the fray, often publicly denouncing what strategy put into action by his campaign. He has already brought Rove and several high-ranking strategists that smeared him in the 2000 GOP primary.

Ultra Peanut
03-13-2008, 08:55 AM
It's amazing that you guys supported the Clintons while they were doing the same thing, just being the Clintons, 1992-2007I did?

bkkcoh
03-13-2008, 08:56 AM
Remember when Bush/Rove smeared McCain all the way back into 2000 by claiming he had an illegitimate black child with a black prostitute? Republicans have been refining smear politics for a while.

The republican machine hasn't geared up for the general yet. I am betting McCain will follow what seems like the most efficient mode for smear campaigns. He will stay above the fray, often publicly denouncing what strategy put into action by his campaign. He has already brought Rove and several high-ranking strategists that smeared him in the 2000 GOP primary.


And the dems have attacked their own, Horton, Clinton and etc....

Ok, but this is a different situation. This is a black candidate, not a white candidate with a rumored black child.

Where has the reps/cons made comments similar about OB? Links also....

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 08:57 AM
Ok, but this is a different situation. This is a black candidate, not a white candidate with a rumored black child.

Where has the reps/cons made comments similar about OB? Links also....

No, not really. It isn't different. It is very similar. Both were about exploiting racial fears of blacks in order to increase support among whites.

alanm
03-13-2008, 08:58 AM
white or not, Obama appeals to educated young adults .. black AND WHITE. im white, and i was at the KS caucus showing my support. he wins in states that have large black pop' and people cry foul. what are the blacks not allowed to pic there canidate? heck last time i checked Hillary winning cali b/c of the latino vote didnt cause everyone to say shes only winning b/c of the mexicans....................the only thing Obama loses to Hillary on is anyone over 60. ill be voting for Obama to beat McCain come November

O-Ba-Ma .. O-Ba-Ma .. O-Ba-Ma :clap:

p.s. regardless this campaigning season has been going on for WAY to long. two years of campaigning is too much im my opinion. lets just pick our canidates vote and get it over with so the media con focus on how much the economy is screwed
ONLY 2 years? I swear someone declared their candidacy for President in Jan 05 and the media has been off and running with it ever since.:Lin::spock:

bkkcoh
03-13-2008, 09:02 AM
No, not really. It isn't different. It is very similar. Both were about exploiting racial fears of blacks in order to increase support among whites.


On this, we will have to agree to disagree. :toast:

jAZ
03-13-2008, 09:04 AM
"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman of any color, he would not be in this position."

If there was ever any doubt that this was all a calculated Rovian stunt rolled out by the Clinton campaign to drive a wedge between whites and Obama...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/183170.php

03.12.08 -- 11:46PM // link | recommend (1)

For Reason Before She Was Against It?
Not sure quite what it means. But TPM Reader JB dug up this passage from a December 2006 article in the Times about what then seemed the likely prospect that a women and a black man would be competitive candidates in the 2008 Democratic primaries ...

“All evidence is that a white female has an advantage over a black male — for reasons of our cultural heritage,” said the Rev. Jesse L. Jackson, the civil rights leader who ran for president in 1984 and 1988. Still, he said, for African-American and female candidates, “It’s easier — emphatically so.”

Ms. Ferraro offered a similar sentiment. “I think it’s more realistic for a woman than it is for an African-American,” said Ms. Ferraro. “There is a certain amount of racism that exists in the United States — whether it’s conscious or not it’s true.”

“Women are 51 percent of the population,” she added.

--Josh Marshall

But never mind that she said the exact opposite about Obama BEFORE he started beating down her candidate. She is playing the race card to drive a white-wedge into the PA race.

You blame him for calling her on it.

What a joke.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 09:05 AM
On this, we will have to agree to disagree. :toast:

I think the problem is that you are trying to limit the question to specifically Obama and the republicans, when those two have not had many opportunities to go at each other. There is not much of a sample size there.

The claim that Hillary is campaigning like a republican compares how Hillary has campaigned specifically against Obama to how republicans have often just campaigned in general.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 09:06 AM
If there was ever any doubt that this was all a calculated Rovian stunt rolled out by the Clinton campaign to drive a wedge between whites and Obama...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/183170.php

03.12.08 -- 11:46PM // link | recommend (1)

For Reason Before She Was Against It?
Not sure quite what it means. But TPM Reader JB dug up this passage from a December 2006 article in the Times about what then seemed the likely prospect that a women and a black man would be competitive candidates in the 2008 Democratic primaries ...

“All evidence is that a white female has an advantage over a black male — for reasons of our cultural heritage,” said the Rev. Jesse L. Jackson, the civil rights leader who ran for president in 1984 and 1988. Still, he said, for African-American and female candidates, “It’s easier — emphatically so.”

Ms. Ferraro offered a similar sentiment. “I think it’s more realistic for a woman than it is for an African-American,” said Ms. Ferraro. “There is a certain amount of racism that exists in the United States — whether it’s conscious or not it’s true.”

“Women are 51 percent of the population,” she added.

--Josh Marshall

But never mind that she said the exact opposite about Obama BEFORE he started beating down her candidate. She is playing the race card to drive a white-wedge into the PA race.

You blame him for calling her on it.

What a joke.

memi is all about twisting anything and everything to justify herself.

Iowanian
03-13-2008, 09:08 AM
Young people, who don't yet feel the wrath of taxation luvs them some harpo.



hilary and dense are both skaliwags.

bkkcoh
03-13-2008, 09:08 AM
I think the problem is that you are trying to limit the question to specifically Obama and the republicans, when those two have not had many opportunities to go at each other. There is not much of a sample size there.

The claim that Hillary is campaigning like a republican compares how Hillary has campaigned specifically against Obama to how republicans have often just campaigned in general.

That is true, because that is what is taking place. I know both parties have been guilty in smear campaigns and it will only get worse, but I would say the clintons will get nasty. I would also say that if the republicans would continue on the path that the clintons started down, they will get more flack then the clintons did.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 09:10 AM
That is true, because that is what is taking place. I know both parties have been guilty in smear campaigns and it will only get worse, but I would say the clintons will get nasty. I would also say that if the republicans would continue on the path that the clintons started down, they will get more flack then the clintons did.

I agree with all of this. Hillary gets a lot of wiggling room that McCain won't in the general.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 09:11 AM
Young people, who don't yet feel the wrath of taxation luvs them some harpo.



hilary and dense are both skaliwags.

Yeah, young people that are living much closer to the margins have no reason to be concerned about taxation policy.

bkkcoh
03-13-2008, 09:12 AM
I agree with all of this. Hillary gets a lot of wiggling room that McCain won't in the general.

So why does she, is it because she is female? Is it because she is a Clinton? Is it because she is a democrat? Is it because there is a bias in the MSM (majority of the MSM)

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 09:16 AM
So why does she, is it because she is female? Is it because she is a Clinton? Is it because she is a democrat? Is it because there is a bias in the MSM (majority of the MSM)

The MSM has biases, not bias. You can just look at the big three 24 hours news networks and see that they aren't uniform. Fox News has a general republican/conservative biase. CNN: Hillary, and MSNBC: Obama.

I would say the Clintons get a whole lot of slack because they are seen in the democratic party as friends to minorities.

I would say that one of the advantages, among many disadvantages as well, for any minority candidate, especially one such as Hillary that exploits the advantage so readily, is that attacks on them also have to be viewed in the biases that often exist against minorities. I don't know if this helps her on the attack.

Edit* I would also like to say that the overarching bias for the MSM always comes back a very basic bias: a bias towards profit. They may have different views on their strategies to make that profit, but it ultimately comes back to that bottom line.

Iowanian
03-13-2008, 09:25 AM
Yeah, young people that are living much closer to the margins have no reason to be concerned about taxation policy.

They haven't felt the brunt of it until they're paying property taxes to go along with the rest. What about the people right at the line, who with 3 jobs between 2 people and trying to improve meager accomodations, and scraping money together to invest for their children's college, but keep getting set back by taxes.....


We've all been younger....most of us have struggled at some point. There is no comparison to being a single 20 year old, concerned about rent, beer and gas money.


If they want to find money and close loopholes for big business and people smuggling money offshore, whatever. They want to tax the living shit out of CEO bonus' paid when they leave because they've sunken the retirement of so many others..fine.


How about starting by NOT giving tax "rebates" to non-producers who aren't paying into the system and are already on the tax payer tit anyway?

bkkcoh
03-13-2008, 09:26 AM
...
Edit* I would also like to say that the overarching bias for the MSM always comes back a very basic bias: a bias towards profit. They may have different views on their strategies to make that profit, but it ultimately comes back to that bottom line.


In regards to CBS, they have lost so much viewership since KC has taken over, I can't imagine that the bottom line of CBS News has been negatively hurt because of lack of revenue or lower charges for advertising. They seem to have taken a slight step to the left.

I know the other major networks have decreased viewership, but not to the degree of CBS, at least, I don't think so.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 09:29 AM
It's kind of amazing, watching the Clinton party line and the Republican party line merge into one.
enemy of thine enemy


but it's still astonishing to see two mortal combatant actually hug and make up after trying to rip each other's throats out for the last 16 years. :eek:

although the republicans have already show they will say and do ANYTHING to win ...... they have absolutely NO political conscience whatsoever. What is pretty surprising in that the Clinton supporters seem to be ready to slash and burn the entire democratic party to advance Hillary's campaign.

You expect that crazy,vindictive shit from the GOP. :shake:

xbarretx
03-13-2008, 10:11 AM
ONLY 2 years? I swear someone declared their candidacy for President in Jan 05 and the media has been off and running with it ever since.:Lin::spock:

LMAO seriously! at least you get the point im trying to make...this bird of overcooked if you ask me

Baby Lee
03-13-2008, 11:37 AM
Remember when Bush/Rove smeared McCain all the way back into 2000 by claiming he had an illegitimate black child with a black prostitute?
No, no I don't. Mind giving me a link to a quote, or some video, to catch me up to speed on this nefarious development?

patteeu
03-13-2008, 11:47 AM
Remember when Bush/Rove smeared McCain all the way back into 2000 by claiming he had an illegitimate black child with a black prostitute? Republicans have been refining smear politics for a while.

The republican machine hasn't geared up for the general yet. I am betting McCain will follow what seems like the most efficient mode for smear campaigns. He will stay above the fray, often publicly denouncing what strategy put into action by his campaign. He has already brought Rove and several high-ranking strategists that smeared him in the 2000 GOP primary.

People have said that Bush/Rove did that, but AFAIK no one ever came up with any real evidence.

bkkcoh
03-13-2008, 11:47 AM
enemy of thine enemy


but it's still astonishing to see two mortal combatant actually hug and make up after trying to rip each other's throats out for the last 16 years. :eek:

although the republicans have already show they will say and do ANYTHING to win ...... they have absolutely NO political conscience whatsoever. What is pretty surprising in that the Clinton supporters seem to be ready to slash and burn the entire democratic party to advance Hillary's campaign.

You expect that crazy,vindictive shit from the GOP. :shake:

But I thought Hilliary that the nomination was to be hers without question, sort of like an entitlement. That is why I have called her the annoynted one.

But the Dems are so innocent in campaign smears, aren't they..... NOT

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 11:50 AM
It's amazing that you guys supported the Clintons while they were doing the same thing, just being the Clintons, 1992-2007

It's amazing how many didn't.

Most of those Clinton supporters are the ones backing Hillary.

Carlota69
03-13-2008, 11:50 AM
Yeah, young people that are living much closer to the margins have no reason to be concerned about taxation policy.

How are young people living closer to the taxations than those 35+?

Although, I do agree young people need to get out and vote for their future, to say you are 'closer" to the taxation is ludicrous.

Are you closer than someone who pays thru the nose in property tax? Or who pays thru the nose in payroll taxes? Bonus checks? How about dealing with all those taxes and still trying to pay the mortgage, child care, gas in the car and the home and trying to feed a family of four? All at the same time?

Or how about someone who loses money in real estate but still has to pay the IRS becasue of some bullshit deal thru a short sale?

Or are you just saying that you are closer, but we are in the thick of it?

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 11:53 AM
If there was ever any doubt that this was all a calculated Rovian stunt rolled out by the Clinton campaign to drive a wedge between whites and Obama...

But never mind that she said the exact opposite about Obama BEFORE he started beating down her candidate. She is playing the race card to drive a white-wedge into the PA race.

You blame him for calling her on it.

What a joke.

Actually, nothing Ferraro said is remotely as racist as what Michelle said about her own race and their support (lack of) of her husband.

I said a couple of days ago that Ferraro made a ridiculous remark. But I've also said that Baaarack is burning the candle at both ends here. He wants the issue to be an issue when it helps him and he doesn't want it to be an issue if it might hurt him. That is playing with fire.

The WSJ has pointed this out and hopefully the rest of the MSM will not be too far behind. The guy absolutely cannot have it both ways and HIS continuing to be disingenuous about the issue only ensures that it will remain divisive.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 11:54 AM
How are young people living closer to the taxations than those 35+?

Although, I do agree young people need to get out and vote for their future, to say you are 'closer" to the taxation is ludicrous.

Are you closer than someone who pays thru the nose in property tax? Or who pays thru the nose in payroll taxes? Bonus checks? How about dealing with all those taxes and still trying to pay the mortgage, child care, gas in the car and the home and trying to feed a family of four? All at the same time?

Or how about someone who loses money in real estate but still has to pay the IRS becasue of some bullshit deal thru a short sale?

Or are you just saying that you are closer, but we are in the thick of it?

I am sorry. I guess it is the people earning $70,000+ dollars a year that the tax breaks being rolled back will effect that are really the ones in dire straits. It certainly isn't the people living on much lower incomes.

Carlota69
03-13-2008, 12:06 PM
I am sorry. I guess it is the people earning $70,000+ dollars a year that the tax breaks being rolled back will effect that are really the ones in dire straits. It certainly isn't the people living on much lower incomes.

Hint of sarcasm I take it? Funny, how long have you lived in the real world, as an adult? As a tax paying citizen?

Believe me, I get it. when i was in my early twenties making next to nothing, I was very vocal and active about crap like this, as anyone should. But to say you are closer to taxation than someone like myself is ludicrous.

I agree that people with low incomes are taking hits and things are tough. But in this day and age, when gas is $3.25 a gallon, and rent/mortgage is $1000 to live in the ghetto and still trying to pay for everyday life, family, groceries etc...$70k isn't even close to enough, becuz of the taxes.