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HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 02:45 PM
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4443230


Wait for Obama to try to spin this. No one who is an American, regardless of color, should allow this sort of speech to go without challenge. And Obama has the nerve to accuse others of being racist?

Iowanian
03-13-2008, 02:52 PM
never mind.

Carlota69
03-13-2008, 02:55 PM
Obama said Wright was like "an old uncle that says some things I dont agree with"? :shake:

This isn't good.

HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 02:57 PM
Linked worked for me....

orange
03-13-2008, 02:59 PM
The link works.

This sure isn't going to help BO.

"God DAMN America! The Bible says it! God DAMN America."

Iowanian
03-13-2008, 03:02 PM
"white america is KKKamerica"


This stuff seems to confirm what many people were questioning about Obamas beliefs several months ago.

At least we deserved 9-11.

raybec 4
03-13-2008, 03:11 PM
My favorite part was the lady at the end who said he being radical, just being black. I had no idea that you had to be an Anti-American in order to be African-American.

Cochise
03-13-2008, 03:14 PM
My favorite part was the lady at the end who said he being radical, just being black. I had no idea that you had to be an Anti-American in order to be African-American.

You're not going to the right church! :Poke:

raybec 4
03-13-2008, 03:18 PM
You're not going to the right church! :Poke:

I guess you're right, I really should get my shit together and get right with the Lawd!!

banyon
03-13-2008, 03:20 PM
never mind.

worked fine for me, and my work server hardly ever works on stuff like this. It was Windows media player I think. weird.

SBK
03-13-2008, 03:24 PM
Your write, its knot accaptabe.

BucEyedPea
03-13-2008, 03:25 PM
What does "accaptabe" mean? I could find a definition in a dictionary anywhere on line or off?:huh:

SBK
03-13-2008, 03:30 PM
After watching that I find myself wondering if jAZ is going to show up and blast this guy the same way he would if Pat Robertson or the like would have said any of this...talk about the "radical christian black left" or something like it.......

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 03:39 PM
I agree it is not acceptable and Obama needs to distance himself from this guy and denounce his words. Luckily for Obama he is retiring very very soon so he won't have that problem anymore.

Let me add this isn't the first time he has been controversial IIRC he believes 9/11 was a conspiracy

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 03:39 PM
After watching that I find myself wondering if jAZ is going to show up and blast this guy the same way he would if Pat Robertson or the like would have said any of this...talk about the "radical christian black left" or something like it.......

Don't count on it. Baaarack's supporters will probably blow this off as another attempt to unfairly crucify their Savior.

At least they portrayed this as irrelevant when I brought up the good Pastor as an issue weeks ago.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 03:41 PM
I agree it is not acceptable and Obama needs to distance himself from this guy and denounce his words. Luckily for Obama he is retiring very very soon so he won't have that problem anymore.


Ah, the sweet sense of oblivion that is involved when you are so blinded by faith in your candidate...

I truly hope he doesn't disappoint you because you've got it really bad for this guy.

banyon
03-13-2008, 03:42 PM
Ah, the sweet sense of oblivion that is involved when you are so blinded by hatred for other candidates...
.


FYP

Carlota69
03-13-2008, 03:42 PM
I just got my ass chewed by An Obama Supporter, who had no idea that I voted for him in the Nev Caucus, becuz I pointed out that White-Middle-Bible belt-America isn't going to like this.

His response was, "Oh come on!!! Didn't you hear the last thing he said about being an uncle?"

I laughed--HARD.

It's funny how Obamaniacs can't handle dealing with the hurdles of what he is going to have to deal with in the GE. His minister is certainly one of those hurdles. And then they get mad at you for pointing it out.

Doesn't matter what if you think the Minister is right/wrong, it just matters what the perception of the American public is. And you folks in Kansas and other Middle American states are going to have a lot of say in this election.

Jenson71
03-13-2008, 03:43 PM
Wait for Obama to try to spin this. No one who is an American, regardless of color, should allow this sort of speech to go without challenge. And Obama has the nerve to accuse others of being racist?

I've never heard Obama call accuse anyone of being racist. I could be wrong though.

I don't think we should judge Obama because of something his pastor says.

|Zach|
03-13-2008, 03:46 PM
I just got my ass chewed by An Obama Supporter, who had no idea that I voted for him in the Nev Caucus, becuz I pointed out that White-Middle-Bible belt-America isn't going to like this.

His response was, "Oh come on!!! Didn't you hear the last thing he said about being an uncle?"

I laughed--HARD.

It's funny how Obamaniacs can't handle dealing with the hurdles of what he is going to have to deal with in the GE. His minister is certainly one of those hurdles. And then they get mad at you for pointing it out.

Doesn't matter what if you think the Minister is right/wrong, it just matters what the perception of the American public is. And you folks in Kansas and other Middle American states are going to have a lot of say in this election.
I love every time you post. Its like, the candidate whose anonymous internet supporters have better manners will get my vote.

HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 03:47 PM
He is on Obamas staff since he semi retired...what a hoot.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 03:47 PM
Ah, the sweet sense of oblivion that is involved when you are so blinded by faith in your candidate...

I truly hope he doesn't disappoint you because you've got it really bad for this guy.

I am not blinded by anything. I said he should renounce or denounce or whatever words you want to use and distance himself from this guy.

My point about him retiring is the faster this guy disappears the better for Obama. Obama can't control what this guy says but he can control whether to continue to support or have him around his campaign. He just needs to cut the freak loose.

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 03:48 PM
I've never heard Obama call accuse anyone of being racist. I could be wrong though.

I don't think we should judge Obama because of something his pastor says.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but he's gonna really need to denounce this....and distance himself in a significant way if he expects to escape any significant fall-out. This pastor of his is a piece of work. He really strikes me as a reverse-racist....a radical separatist type, and Obama's association with him will NOT help his campaign.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 03:50 PM
I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but he's gonna really need to denounce this....and distance himself in a significant way if he expects to escape any significant fall-out. This pastor of his is a piece of work. He really strikes me as a reverse-racist....a radical separatist type, and Obama's association with him will NOT help his campaign.

Yep. If he doesn't do something fairly quickly this could get out of hand and really hurt him.

His pastor is a freak though and has said some really controversial things in the past so this really comes as no surprise.

Carlota69
03-13-2008, 03:51 PM
I love every time you post. Its like, the candidate whose anonymous internet supporters have better manners will get my vote.

Really? Thats very funny, considering Obama supporters have been the rudest, the most hateful and the most naive (especially you), yet I voted for him.

BTW, you never answered my question--How's school going?

HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 03:51 PM
Psst Dirk...

1) He was the pastor who married Obama and Michelle
2) He baptized his kids
3) Obama donated a lot of money to him
4) Obama has him on his staff as an advisor.

Not good for your guy.

|Zach|
03-13-2008, 03:53 PM
Really? Thats very funny, considering Obama supporters have been the rudest, the most hateful and the most naive (especially you), yet I voted for him.

BTW, you never answered my question--How's school going?
School was awesome. Found my love for photography and here I am a photographer.

Aside from that, your dog and pony show on this board has been great. You just flail you arms around talking about how you don't like anyone going out of your way to be offended by people on the internet.

"I laughed--HARD."

Hey, we all have our ways of picking candidates. Some people do some weird things based on the reactions of people on boards and some are interested in issues.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 03:55 PM
Psst Dirk...

1) He was the pastor who married Obama and Michelle
2) He baptized his kids
3) Obama donated a lot of money to him
4) Obama has him on his staff as an advisor.

Not good for your guy.

I realize that and that is why I said he should denounce him and remove him from his campaign asap.

I am hoping, though I am not counting on it, that this is the last time we talk about race in this campaign because this is getting old real quick.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:00 PM
Psst Dirk...

1) He was the pastor who married Obama and Michelle
2) He baptized his kids
3) Obama donated a lot of money to him
4) Obama has him on his staff as an advisor.

Not good for your guy.

I can't find what capacity Pastor Wright is serving on Baaarck's campaign but Hannity mentioned his position on his show today. I was listening to it while picking my kids. Rush also had it on his show.

Carlota69
03-13-2008, 04:01 PM
Great I am a photographer.

Aside from that, your dog and pony show on this board has been great. You just flail you arms around talking about how you don't like anyone going out of your way to be offended by people on the internet.

"I laughed--HARD."

Hey, we all have our ways of picking candidates. Some people do some weird things based on the reactions of people on boards and some are interested in issues.

I laughed hard at someone who I was talking to in person. And I ALWAYS vote on issues, considering I've been hit hard in my own world by the lay of the land--taxes, forclosures blah blah...

I just hate the hypocrisy I see. You know, people thinking they know more about your life and how you vote based on, as you say, anonymous internet postings, especially form those very wet behind the ears.:)

Good luck in school. I have many photographer friends. Not an easy career, but worthwhile for sure.

P.s. I love dogs. Not a big fan of ponies though...

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 04:02 PM
I can't find what capacity Pastor Wright is serving on Baaarck's campaign but Hannity mentioned his position on his show today. I was listening to it while picking my kids. Rush also had it on his show.




http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Wrights_com... (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Wrights_committee.html)

"But he also has a formal role on the campaign.

Wright is a member of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee — the sort of largely honorary, advisory body that in recent days has recently been used mostly to throw people off who say controversial things."

Like I said he should remove him and dissociate him from his campaign.

Oh and one last thing Obama never gave money to Wright he donated money to the church. Big difference.

Chiefnj2
03-13-2008, 04:02 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 04:03 PM
School was awesome. Found my love for photography and here I am a photographer.

Aside from that, your dog and pony show on this board has been great. You just flail you arms around talking about how you don't like anyone going out of your way to be offended by people on the internet.

"I laughed--HARD."

Hey, we all have our ways of picking candidates. Some people do some weird things based on the reactions of people on boards and some are interested in issues.

80-90% of Americans claim their votes come down to issues. Political scientists will tell you that isn't the case for most. Instead, party affiliation, ideological orientation, and personal appeal of candidates are much more important in reality.

Those of us for whom issues do matter, are in a distinct minority. Unfortunate, but it's true.

Hog Farmer
03-13-2008, 04:04 PM
Has anyone ever mentioned the word sleeper ?

Pitt Gorilla
03-13-2008, 04:04 PM
How did McCain handle his mother's comments? Perhaps Obama can take that approach.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:06 PM
Like I said he should remove him and dissociate him from his campaign.

Oh and one last thing Obama never gave money to Wright he donated money to the church. Big difference.

Obama's speech at that church is why the church and UCC are under IRS investigation.

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 04:07 PM
How did McCain handle his mother's comments? Perhaps Obama can take that approach.

Which ones? :shrug:

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 04:09 PM
Wright's clearly an idiot. Most of you are just looking for a reason to hate Obama though and it's why none of the attacks on him have been particularly personal or legitimate. It's because there's not much there to go after.

As long as McCain is going around embracing a guy like John Hagee, I don't see Wright being an issue. Obama has said he doesn't agree with most of what he says and there's only so much kicking to the curb you can do of someone you have a personal relationship with.

I'm sure all of you have friends and family in your life that believe really stupid things.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:12 PM
Wright's clearly an idiot. Most of you are just looking for a reason to hate Obama though and it's why none of the attacks on him have been particularly personal or legitimate. It's because there's not much there to go after.

As long as McCain is going around embracing a guy like John Hagee, I don't see Wright being an issue. Obama has said he doesn't agree with most of what he says and there's only so much kicking to the curb you can do of someone you have a personal relationship with.

More denial.

I'm sorry but as a Democrat, especially a liberal, he will have a higher burden because it's HIS pastor and who he has credited as an advisor. And he has him on his staff.

Hagee is merely a supporter who endorsed McCain. Nice attempt at equating the two but you must really have your head in the sand if you think they are the same thing...

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 04:14 PM
Wright's clearly an idiot. Most of you are just looking for a reason to hate Obama though and it's why none of the attacks on him have been particularly personal or legitimate. It's because there's not much there to go after.

As long as McCain is going around embracing a guy like John Hagee, I don't see Wright being an issue. Obama has said he doesn't agree with most of what he says and there's only so much kicking to the curb you can do of someone you have a personal relationship with.

I agree and understand to a point what you are saying, but there is a difference of degree. Hagee is not McCain's pastor, nor is he his mentor. Nor has he been a member of his church to my knowledge.

Make no mistake, unless Obama strongly denounces this guy....I guarantee this association and relationship will hurt his campaign. If Obama doesn't throw this guy under the bus pretty soon....there will be fall-out. The only question is, how much?

|Zach|
03-13-2008, 04:16 PM
I laughed hard at someone who I was talking to in person. And I ALWAYS vote on issues, considering I've been hit hard in my own world by the lay of the land--taxes, forclosures blah blah...

I just hate the hypocrisy I see. You know, people thinking they know more about your life and how you vote based on, as you say, anonymous internet postings, especially form those very wet behind the ears.:)

Good luck in school. I have many photographer friends. Not an easy career, but worthwhile for sure.

P.s. I love dogs. Not a big fan of ponies though...

All I can go is by what I read. It was like pulling teeth to get you to talk about what issues were important to you but there are a lot of talk about each campaigns supporters as if you are dating them more so than looking at them for your vote.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 04:16 PM
More denial.

Denial of what?

I'm sorry but as a Democrat, especially a liberal, he will have a higher burden because it's HIS pastor and who he has credited as an advisor. And he has him on his staff.

He's not some political advisor and stop trying to pass him off as one.

Hagee is merely a supporter who endorsed McCain. Nice attempt at equating the two but you must really have your head in the sand if you think they are the same thing...

Uh, McCain went out of his way to hold a press conference announcing the embracing of Hagee's endorsement.

Do you or do you not have friends or family that have really retarded opinions? I know you personally have those retarded opinions.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:19 PM
Denial of what?



He's not some political advisor and stop trying to pass him off as one.



Per Obama Supporter Dirk


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Wrights_com...

"But he also has a formal role on the campaign.

Wright is a member of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee — the sort of largely honorary, advisory body that in recent days has recently been used mostly to throw people off who say controversial things."

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 04:20 PM
That's not a political advisor. Now address the other part of my post that you intentionally avoided.

HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 04:20 PM
The Obama people will have to deal with the issue. They have a outspoken on film fire and brimstone racist who is Obamas pastor, friend, and advisor. Now we get to watch the way its ok to be a racist if you are black routine start.

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 04:24 PM
....Now we get to watch the way its ok to be a racist if you are black routine start.

If that happens, Hillary will pull-off one of the biggest political come-backs in history....while simultaneously losing a larger share of the black vote than any Democrat since FDR.

That would be quite a unfortunate hat-trick. :shake:

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:25 PM
That's not a political advisor. Now address the other part of my post that you intentionally avoided.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obama/obama120407pr.html

PRESS RELEASE from Obama for America

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Dec. 4, 2007

Renowned Faith Leaders Come Together to Support Obama

Unprecedented group of nation’s top Black religious leaders unveiled

CHARLESTON, S.C. –U.S. Sen. Barack Obama’s campaign today unveiled its African American Religious Leadership Committee at both the national and statewide levels. Together, they represent two groups of key national and South Carolina religious leaders who are supporting Obama’s bid for the Democratic nomination.

These groups are truly without equal and reflect the belief among clergy that Obama has dedicated his public life to living the values of his faith outside of his house of worship. The national leadership committee is made up of presidents of two of the largest national Baptist conventions; the most senior Bishop of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, some of the most well-known African American women religious leaders and living legends of the Civil Rights movement, Rev. Dr. Joseph E. Lowery and Dr. C.T. Vivian; and many others.

Bishop Walter Scott Thomas and Lowery joined Vivian in Charleston to unveil the list. South Carolina ministers attending the event included Rev. Ralph Canty of Savannah Grove Baptist in Effingham, Rev. Dr. Charles Heyward of St. James Presbyterian on James Island and Revs. Alanza Washington of Wallingford Presbyterian in Charleston and Julius McDowell of Big Wesley United Methodist in Hollywood.

The South Carolina leadership committee includes nearly 130 senior pastors from some of the largest and most important churches across the state. Both groups represent Senator Obama’s support among thousands of Black clergy and religious leaders across America, leaders who have come to recognize that Obama represents change they can believe in.

“This is an unprecedented group for an unprecedented candidate,” said National African American Religious Committee Co-Chair Rev. Otis Moss, Jr., a civil rights legend and former president of the Morehouse University Board of Trustees. “As a lifelong advocate for the less fortunate and the forgotten, Senator Obama lives his faith everyday. He continues to talk about a faith that works to unite and not divide people.”

Obama often speaks about the role his faith plays in his public and family life and how it influences his approach to the great issues that face the country -- healthcare, education and poverty. The National African American Religious Leadership Committee meets on regular conference calls to support Senator Obama.

The South Carolina campaign has held Obama Faith Forums across the state, launched the “40 Days of Faith & Family” effort, and reached out to people of faith to help them organize within their own networks to spread the word about Obama. So far, the Obama campaign has recruited more than 200 Faith Community Contacts – grassroots church leaders who are identifying and educating voters in advance of the primary election – in 27 counties.

“Americans need a leader whose values are rooted in the belief that we must care for the least of these, that we have a responsibility to our fellow man and that if one of us is not succeeding, then all of us are not succeeding,” Canty said. “We believe that Senator Obama is that leader.”

A list of national and South Carolina ministers supporting Obama can be viewed by clicking the following links: South Carolina and national.


*Endorsements from religious leaders are extended in their personal capacity, and not on behalf of any house of worship, organization or denomination.



NATIONAL
(SNIP)

Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr.*
Senior Pastor
Trinity United Church of Christ
Chicago, IL
Senator Barack Obama's Pastor

Carlota69
03-13-2008, 04:26 PM
All I can go is by what I read. It was like pulling teeth to get you to talk about what issues were important to you but there are a lot of talk about each campaigns supporters as if you are dating them more so than looking at them for your vote.

Ok, no more pulling teeth.

I am voting for Obama because of the issues. Period. Hillary isn't even an option, not becasue of the issues, but becasue she wont get anything done.

I've considered McCain, but, becasue of the issues, I can't possibly vote for him.

The 2 most important to me

1) Healthcare. I've just had surgery and I have tp pay all kinds of $$ becasue the insurance I have sux. BC?BS totally blows.

2) My Wallet. that emcompasses many things, but all I know is I was better off when BC was in office, for whatever reason. All I know is I wasn't paying $3.50 a gallon for gas.

So as you can see Obama is my only choice. It just worries me when I see this shit about his Minister or whatnot, not so much becasue I beleive it (cuz I dont think BO is a "Black Panther"), I worry about how this is going to sit with the same peeps that put GWB in office. And I dont like BO's supporters being hateful towrds those they dont think are in their camp. People that may disagree with them. Kind of goes against the message of hope, change and unifying, dont you think?

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 04:29 PM
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/obama/obama120407pr.html

PRESS RELEASE from Obama for America

I know his role and you're only regurgitating the same garbage.

Now address the second part of my post that you intentionally avoided.

noa
03-13-2008, 04:29 PM
I think Obama should denounce it just for the sake of consistency with his own message. And I generally don't like calling for people to denounce speech. I don't think Ferraro should have been denounced. It was enough for Obama to point out that what she said was silly and ultimately had no point. I don't think Obama's staffer should have been denounced for calling Hillary a 'monster.' The last thing we need is for our campaigns to become competitions of censorship.

Anyway, Obama is out there on his campaign talking about unity and about how Selma wasn't an important African American event, it was an important American event. Wright only undermines that message. He should deliver a speech like Romney did with religion (although I think he could do way better than Romney, who only actually mentioned his religion explicitly once). Just explain why you go to the church and what you take from it and what you don't care for. Its a bit unfair to put that burden on Obama, but the reality is, he will be forced to address this sooner or later. Might as well do it under his own terms in a manner in which he excels (speeches).

I personally have a tough time believing Obama agrees with the things said in that clip, but he should still do his best to make sure the rest of the country understands that he doesn't agree.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:31 PM
I know his role and you're only regurgitating the same garbage.

Now address the second part of my post that you intentionally avoided.

Ok, but some folks are hearing this for the first time.

ROFL

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 04:34 PM
Ok, but some folks are hearing this for the first time.

ROFL

For like the 45th time.

And now for the 23rd time, please address the second part of the post you keep ignoring.

HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 04:36 PM
Denounce...disavow...distance.....thats really the issue. Obama cant retract what his history is and what it will show. If he does, when more is found out he will come across as a liar. If he trys to weasel word around it hes going to come off as shallow.

He is in a very bad position where he could lose a bunch of his white support for being part of a church and hooked up with a man who was willing to satate uncategorically Goddamn America...not a good thing. And his black support will fade as well becuse there are many conservative black voters who do not approve of racial rhetoric that is so hate filled and serves to divide, not unite.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:37 PM
Denounce...disavow...distance.....thats really the issue. Obama cant retract what his history is and what it will show. If he does, when more is found out he will come across as a liar. If he trys to weasel word around it hes going to come off as shallow.

He is in a very bad position where he could lose a bunch of his white support for being part of a church and hooked up with a man who was willing to satate uncategorically Goddamn America...not a good thing. And his black support will fade as well becuse there are many conservative black voters who do not approve of racial rhetoric that is so hate filled and serves to divide, not unite.

Won't it make for an interesting commercial showing John McCain as war hero side by side with Obama pictured with Pastor Wright and those words in the back ground...

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 04:39 PM
if we want to start blasting people's links to wacky religion then it's gonna be a long,long line.

1/3 of the GOP are hardcore religious whackjobs

i don't agree with the tone and specifics this pastor chose to use ..... but i also didn't hear Obama say them.

The GOP better think twice before the drag out the religious nuts

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:41 PM
if we want to start blasting people's links to wacky religion then it's gonna be a long,long line.

1/3 of the GOP are hardcore religious whackjobs

i don't agree with the tone and specifics this pastor chose to use ..... but i also didn't hear Obama say them.

The GOP better think twice before the drag out the religious nuts

So far it's only the MSM asking these questions but once they get asked then the door is open for the issue to be used against Obama and/or McCain.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 04:41 PM
The Democratic Party needs to denounce and reject Meme, Hillary and their gang of old white women.

Calcountry
03-13-2008, 04:43 PM
The internet is funny like that. I had heard about this stuff, but only now got to watch it for myself. You can run, but you can't hide anymore.

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 04:45 PM
if we want to start blasting people's links to wacky religion then it's gonna be a long,long line.

1/3 of the GOP are hardcore religious whackjobs

i don't agree with the tone and specifics this pastor chose to use ..... but i also didn't hear Obama say them.

The GOP better think twice before the drag out the religious nuts

If you are able to connect McCain as CLOSELY to someone as radical on the right as this guy is, you might have a point. I'd say, presently at least, you don't.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 04:45 PM
So far it's only the MSM asking these questions but once they get asked then the door is open for the issue to be used against Obama and/or McCain.
and i'm sure you'll be right there beside all your GOP brethren taking shots at Obama.

maybe they'll make you an honorary member

HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 04:45 PM
Facts are the politicians greatest enemy.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:46 PM
The Democratic Party needs to denounce and reject Meme, Hillary and their gang of old white women.

Spoken like a true Baaarack supporter. ROFLROFLROFL

I've probably been voting longer than you've been alive. And what is funny is I sounded as moronic and clueless as you do when I was your age. Oh, to be 20 something and so full of knowledge again...

ROFL

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:47 PM
and i'm sure you'll be right there beside all your GOP brethren taking shots at Obama.

maybe they'll make you an honorary member

Hell, they'll be following MY lead.

I brought this issue up how many days/weeks ago. :D

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 04:47 PM
The Democratic Party needs to denounce and reject Meme, Hillary and their gang of old white women.

They won't if the alternative is someone who shares a radical black separatist agenda. Obama has to make sure he rejects that categorically.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:48 PM
They won't if the alternative is someone who shares a radical black separatist agenda. Obama has to make sure he rejects that categorically.

Have you heard his wife speak? She sounds like Jeremiah lite. I've been telling folks for weeks HE is not who he pretends HE is but no one really wanted to hear it...

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 04:49 PM
If you are able to connect McCain as CLOSELY to someone as radical on the right as this guy is, you might have a point. I'd say, presently at least, you don't.
hey ... i never said McCain

in fact, i've said numerous times that McCain seems like a good guy to me, with an honest attitude about the presidency.

my preferences for this election are Obama first ... McCain 2nd with Hillary Clinton as my last choice.

but the reality is that the GOP walks hand-in-hand with a plethora of wacky pastor-type guys JUST LIKE this guy.

They have no room to talk imo.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 04:50 PM
Spoken like a true Baaarack supporter. ROFLROFLROFL

I've probably been voting longer than you've been alive. And what is funny is I sounded as moronic and clueless as you do when I was your age. Oh, to be 20 something and so full of knowledge again...

ROFL

Are you going to get around to answering the second part of my post?

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 04:51 PM
They won't if the alternative is someone who shares a radical black separatist agenda. Obama has to make sure he rejects that categorically.

Anybody who believes that probably didn't realize he had a Pastor. They thought he was a Muslim.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 04:52 PM
Hell, they'll be following MY lead.

I brought this issue up how many days/weeks ago. :D

long live the new Republican, DEnise.


personally i believe the democratic party would be better off without you and your buddy Hillary.

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 04:52 PM
hey ... i never said McCain

in fact, i've said numerous times that McCain seems like a good guy to me, with an honest attitude about the presidency.

my preferences for this election are Obama first ... McCain 2nd with Hillary Clinton as my last choice.

but the reality is that the GOP walks hand-in-hand with a plethora of wacky pastor-type guys JUST LIKE this guy.

They have no room to talk imo.

I agree with the larger point; in McCain's case....against McCain, this could hurt Obama though. That is, if it doesn't kill him against Hillary first.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 04:54 PM
long live the new Republican, DEnise.


personally i believe the democratic party would be better off without you and your buddy Hillary.

The world would be better off without that scum.

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 04:54 PM
Anybody who believes that probably didn't realize he had a Pastor. They thought he was a Muslim.

Maybe. But now Obama is going to have to clearly and prominently speak the words, more than once if necessary. Otherwise, he could be in trouble.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 04:56 PM
long live the new Republican, DEnise.


personally i believe the democratic party would be better off without you and your buddy Hillary.

No, not a Republican. They are not liberal or progressive enough for my taste. Neither are the Dems but what else is there?

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:00 PM
I agree with the larger point; in McCain's case....against McCain, this could hurt Obama though. That is, if it doesn't kill him against Hillary first.
Nobody seems to mind when that nut case Pat Robertson endorse Rudy Guilliani.

how many times has Robertson talked about how America deserved to get bombed ... Hurricaned and all sorts of other things.

if they are gonna point out this with Obama then we just break out all the other crack pots that constantly endorse the GOP candidates.


but you're right, i'm sure the GOP will be very ....... selective ...... in the way the apply associations to the religiously insane.

The same way they selectively apply honesty,morals and virtually everyone other topic they pound their chest and browbeat everyone about.

HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 05:04 PM
Gulianni and Roberston are not running.

Nice move just not very well executed.

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 05:04 PM
Nobody seems to mind when that nut case Pat Robertson endorse Rudy Guilliani.

how many times has Robertson talked about how America deserved to get bombed ... Hurricaned and all sorts of other things.

if they are gonna point out this with Obama then we just break out all the other crack pots that constantly endorse the GOP candidates.

You seem indifferent to the CLOSE nature of Obama's relationship with this guy. It's not a small distinction.

If Guiliani sought or had the same relationship with Robertson....it would be equally stupid, and potentially damaging. Guiliani isn't still in the race though.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 05:05 PM
Nobody seems to mind when that nut case Pat Robertson endorse Rudy Guilliani.

how many times has Robertson talked about how America deserved to get bombed ... Hurricaned and all sorts of other things.

if they are gonna point out this with Obama then we just break out all the other crack pots that constantly endorse the GOP candidates.

But RWNJ close ranks around their crackpots. The CONS know this. There is no way the DEMS are going to close ranks around Pastor Wright. The question is if Baaarack will throw him under the bus the way he did Louie.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 05:06 PM
Gulianni and Roberston are not running.

Nice move just not very well executed.

The Right routinely seeks the endorsements of people like that who say retarded things. And that's never made any of you presently bashing Obama NOT vote for that particular candidate.

HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 05:07 PM
Obama threw Ferraro under the bus and she has been a great supporter of black causes her entire career. Its ok though she said something he didnt like.

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 05:09 PM
That "God DAMN America!" coupled with Michelle Obama's...."for the first time....I'm proud of America" comment, could make for a nasty, but effective, campaign commercial/attack ad.

:shake:

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:09 PM
No, not a Republican. They are not liberal or progressive enough for my taste. Neither are the Dems but what else is there?
obama is the most liberal and progressive candidate that's available so hush the f*** up and stop trashing your best option.

you prefer Hillary?
you prefer McCain?

neither are as "liberal" as Obama .... it's time to pick and choose your battles and not cut off your nose to spite your face.

oh great trash Obama because he's not *insert reason here* and then we can end up with McCain.

Hoorah, you win!!! .......... or did you?

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 05:16 PM
obama is the most liberal and progressive candidate that's available so hush the f*** up and stop trashing your best option.

you prefer Hillary?
you prefer McCain?

neither are as "liberal" as Obama .... it's time to pick and choose your battles and not cut off your nose to spite your face.

oh great trash Obama because he's not *insert reason here* and then we can end up with McCain.

Hoorah, you win!!! .......... or did you?

So, he's more liberal that does NOT mean he's the right person for the job. Hillary is more conservative but I think she would be marginally better than Baaarack. I find him to be a fraud. As long as I have that intuitive feeling about him then I'll go with Hillary by default.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:16 PM
Gulianni and Roberston are not running.

Nice move just not very well executed.
oh stfu you POS

dam right wing retards pop up all over the place.

i never knew just how psycho the right was until i experienced people like you on CPlanet.

shit, i just thought it was some made up crap to scare small children and to be on The Jerry Springer show.


WHEN guliani was in the race nobody on a right said jack about the Pat Robertson endorsement. Every freakin election the GOP candidate takes money and endorsement from bible thumping nut jobs on the right.

Republicans have no problem with religious retards until they support someone on the other side.

it's all partisan crap

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:18 PM
So, he's more liberal that does NOT mean he's the right person for the job. Hillary is more conservative but I think she would be marginally better than Baaarack. I find him to be a fraud. As long as I have that intuitive feeling about him then I'll go with Hillary by default.
so support Hillary, trash obama and get McCain elected.

:clap:

brilliant

same kind of attitude that got Dubya elected in in the first place.

chagrin
03-13-2008, 05:19 PM
oh my, how can anyone spin that message? holy cow

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:20 PM
oh my, how can anyone spin that message? holy cow
how can anyone blame Obama for the message? Holy cow

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 05:20 PM
so support Hillary, trash obama and get McCain elected.

:clap:

brilliant

same kind of attitude that got Dubya elected in in the first place.

Actually, it was the attitude that DUHBya might not be the best person for the job but he's sure nice, charismatic, and a good guy and he's ABBC/G.

Same shit, different dude.

Mr. Kotter
03-13-2008, 05:22 PM
oh stfu you POS

dam right wing retards pop up all over the place.

i never knew just how psycho the right was until i experienced people like you on CPlanet.

shit, i just thought it was some made up crap to scare small children and to be on The Jerry Springer show.


WHEN guliani was in the race nobody on a right said jack about the Pat Robertson endorsement. Every freakin election the GOP candidate takes money and endorsement from bible thumping nut jobs on the right.

Republicans have no problem with religious retards until they support someone on the other side.

it's all partisan crap

Laz, you aren't being rational about this. You are missing the distinction....

I guarantee any Republican candidate who had Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, or John Hagee marry them, serve as a "mentor," serve as their personal pastor, and have them on their campaign staff...would face the same scrutiny. And rightfully so. And whoever that candidate was, during THIS stage of the campaign....they'd be faced with the same questions.

If Obama adopts your posture in answering this question, Hillary will wrestle the nomination from him.

THAT would be incredibly unfortunate and pathetic. :banghead:

:shake:

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:22 PM
Actually, it was the attitude that DUHBya might not be the best person for the job but he's sure nice, charismatic, and a good guy and he's ABBC/G.

Same shit, different dude.

keep telling yourself that as you continue to help the GOP get McCain elected.

you might as well just vote for him and get it over with.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:25 PM
Laz, you aren't being rational about this. You are missing the distinction....

I guarantee any Republican candidate who had Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, or John Hagee marry them, serve as a "mentor," serve as their personal pastor, and have them on their campaign staff...would face the same scrutiny. And rightfully so. And whoever that candidate was, during THIS stage of the campaign....they'd be faced with the same questions.

If Obama adopts your posture in answering this question, Hillary will wrestle the nomination from him.

THAT would be incredibly unfortunate and pathetic. :banghead:

:shake:

the connection is closer ..... more personal to be sure.

but it's still blaming the candidate for the comments made by someone else.

if we are gonna do it ..... then we'll do it for everybody.

start digging those bones out of the closet

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:26 PM
someone is just gonna have to ask Obama if he feels the same way ........ then see what happens.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 05:26 PM
Actually, it was the attitude that DUHBya might not be the best person for the job but he's sure nice, charismatic, and a good guy and he's ABBC/G.

Same shit, different dude.

Dubya got elected because the Democrats twice elected candidates who could not connect with people. People who were entrenched in Washington. Bill Clinton could connect with people and wasn't Washington Establishment.

Barack has that same ability. Hillary does not.

Der Flöprer
03-13-2008, 05:27 PM
The link isn't working.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 05:28 PM
Spoken like a true Baaarack supporter. ROFLROFLROFL

I've probably been voting longer than you've been alive. And what is funny is I sounded as moronic and clueless as you do when I was your age. Oh, to be 20 something and so full of knowledge again...

ROFL

You weren't clueless because you were young, you were clueless because you are a f*cking idiot.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:28 PM
The link isn't working.
still working for me

try this

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zWvxTUy47Fk&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zWvxTUy47Fk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

orange
03-13-2008, 05:30 PM
the connection is closer ..... more personal to be sure.

but it's still blaming the candidate for the comments made by someone else.

if we are gonna do it ..... then we'll do it for everybody.

start digging those bones out of the closet

Okay, quickly then...

What about blaming Clinton for Ferraro? Just? Unjust? Retarded?

...or "Oh, that's different because Hillary is the AntiChrist."

HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 05:32 PM
Obama is charasmatic but the painful truth is coming out, his position is to sway people with words but the past and his real beliefs will haunt him over and over.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 05:35 PM
Obama is charasmatic but the painful truth is coming out, his position is to sway people with words but the past and his real beliefs will haunt him over and over.

You've said plenty of things on this board just as retarded as anything Wright has said. That's the irony in all this.

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:36 PM
Okay, quickly then...

What about blaming Clinton for Ferraro? Just? Unjust? Retarded?

...or "Oh, that's different because Hillary is the AntiChrist."
to be truthful i haven't even pay attention to the Ferraro issue yet.

is Ferraro employed by Hillary?
did Hillary tell Ferraro to say/do whatever?

if not then any blame or guilt is not relevant to the candidate.

stevieray
03-13-2008, 05:39 PM
Last time I checked, it wasn't the KKK killing thousands of black men on the south side of Chicago.

People can deflect all they want, but if Obama is the Christian he claims to be, he has the utmost respect for his pastor. I don't know very many people who go to a church for years where they disagree or feel uncomfortable with the message or the messenger.

On a larger scale, live by the sword, die by the sword..

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:40 PM
George W Bush has what 100+ disciples of Pat Robertson on his staff?

Does this mean they Bush thinks that America deserved Hurricane Katrina?

HonestChieffan
03-13-2008, 05:41 PM
Laz...news just in...

Bush is not running this time.

Hydrae
03-13-2008, 05:42 PM
I think it is interesting to see where Obama talks like he doesn't agree with much of what his pastor says. How many of you regular church goers would continue going to a church where you disagree with most of what the pastor says? I think this is going to cause him some real issues and I don't see any good way for him to wiggle out of it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 05:43 PM
Laz...news just in...

Bush is not running this time.

Learn it, love it

http://www.logosschool.com/materials/images/C165_intro_logic_dvd.gif

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:44 PM
Laz...news just in...

Bush is not running this time.
doesn't change the hypocrisy that is YOU

stevieray
03-13-2008, 05:46 PM
doesn't change the hypocrisy that is YOU

kettle/pot

Mr. Laz
03-13-2008, 05:47 PM
kettle/pot
hi stevie ...... how are you?

stevieray
03-13-2008, 05:51 PM
hi stevie ...... how are you?

not bad..very busy. you?

you're smarter than this...one negative isn't validated by an example of another negative..I know you don't raise your kids like this..

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 05:52 PM
You weren't clueless because you were young, you were clueless because you are a f*cking idiot.

Uh-huh. If I sounded just like you then what exactly does that make you...

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 05:54 PM
We should start a poll guessing how long until Obamessiah throws his spiritual advisor under the bus...

I'm saying tomorrow afternoon. Might as well catch that late Friday 'news you don't want anyone to hear about' news cycle.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 05:56 PM
Uh-huh. If I sounded just like you then what exactly does that make you...

I'm educated. You're a bitter f*ckmongrel whose 9 pound head has 18 pounds of monkey shit stuffed inside it.

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:01 PM
All I know is I wasn't paying $3.50 a gallon for gas.

This is a joke, right? You think that if Bill Clinton (or some other Democrat) were in office now, crude wouldn't be as high?

SBK
03-13-2008, 06:01 PM
I'll tell you what I see. I am not an Obama fan at all, so take it for what it's worth.

If I were to see this and hear all about Obama's close relationship with this racist nutjob I'm going to assume that Obama holds the same viewpoints.

I do know that you do not attend a church in which you disagree whole-heartedly with the pastor, you just don't. If you think your pastor is a wack job, you go somewhere else. You do not have some guy you think it crazy perform your wedding. You do not donate money to a wack job's church.....How many people here would offer support of any kind to Fred Phelps?

So I can only assume that if this is Obama's pastor, and his close friend, that Obama shares many of his views. Otherwise he would have nothing to do with the guy right?

I don't see anyway that this doesn't paint Obama as a racist. And this guy is going to be a huge problem for Obama. HUGE.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:04 PM
I'm educated. You're a bitter f*ckmongrel whose 9 pound head has 18 pounds of monkey shit stuffed inside it.

Yeah, ok. Whatever. ROFL

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:06 PM
I'll tell you what I see. I am not an Obama fan at all, so take it for what it's worth.

If I were to see this and hear all about Obama's close relationship with this racist nutjob I'm going to assume that Obama holds the same viewpoints.

I do know that you do not attend a church in which you disagree whole-heartedly with the pastor, you just don't. If you think your pastor is a wack job, you go somewhere else. You do not have some guy you think it crazy perform your wedding. You do not donate money to a wack job's church.....How many people here would offer support of any kind to Fred Phelps?

So I can only assume that if this is Obama's pastor, and his close friend, that Obama shares many of his views. Otherwise he would have nothing to do with the guy right?

I don't see anyway that this doesn't paint Obama as a racist. And this guy is going to be a huge problem for Obama. HUGE.


Well it certainly puts Michelle's comments more in context. Is Baaarack truly going to try to tell people that two of the people closest to his psyche literally do not have views that he supports or shares?

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:10 PM
Dear Penny:

Thank you for contacting me regarding your belief that the U.S. government was complicit in the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. I appreciate hearing your passionate views on this matter.

While I do not believe the U.S. government was complicit in the attacks, I do think it should be held accountable for the unacceptable mistakes it made in the run-up to that terrible day. The blunders that occurred prior to the 2001 attacks were inexcusable and often outrageous. The series of clear warnings about the potential use of hijacked planes as weapons is just one example of why the "surprise" of 9/11 should have been anticipated. In my view, proof of government complicity is not necessary when making the argument that the U.S. should accept some responsibility for what happened on 9/11.

Thank you again for writing.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama
United States Senator

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 06:12 PM
This is a joke, right? You think that if Bill Clinton (or some other Democrat) were in office now, crude wouldn't be as high?

Somehow I doubt Exxon Mobil would have developed his energy strategy.

But I know, it must be hard for you to shun the dick that plows you.

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:14 PM
Somehow I doubt Exxon Mobil would have developed his energy strategy.

But I know, it must be hard for you to shun the dick that plows you.

Can you explain to me how you think crude would be lower with a Democrat in office?

Please at least pretend to be civil, okay?

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:16 PM
Dear Penny:

Thank you for contacting me regarding your belief that the U.S. government was complicit in the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. I appreciate hearing your passionate views on this matter.

While I do not believe the U.S. government was complicit in the attacks, I do think it should be held accountable for the unacceptable mistakes it made in the run-up to that terrible day. The blunders that occurred prior to the 2001 attacks were inexcusable and often outrageous. The series of clear warnings about the potential use of hijacked planes as weapons is just one example of why the "surprise" of 9/11 should have been anticipated. In my view, proof of government complicity is not necessary when making the argument that the U.S. should accept some responsibility for what happened on 9/11.

Thank you again for writing.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama
United States Senator


Is this for real? Where did you get it? OMG, I said these things knowing full well I'd never be running for POTUS and there were people here who wanted to call the Feds claiming I was committing treason. Now some of those same folks are considering supporting this guy??? :eek::doh!::spock:

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 06:16 PM
Can you explain to me how you think crude would be lower with a Democrat in office?

Please at least pretend to be civil, okay?

ROFL....

http://www.dotcr.ost.dot.gov/asp/forkidsyouth/images/connect1.jpg

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 06:17 PM
Is this for real? Where did you get it? OMG, I said these things knowing full well I'd never be running for POTUS and there were people here who wanted to call the Feds claiming I was committing treason. Now some of those same folks are considering supporting this guy??? :eek::doh!::spock:

And you call us sheep?

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:18 PM
Dear Penny:

Thank you for contacting me regarding your belief that the U.S. government was complicit in the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. I appreciate hearing your passionate views on this matter.

While I do not believe the U.S. government was complicit in the attacks, I do think it should be held accountable for the unacceptable mistakes it made in the run-up to that terrible day. The blunders that occurred prior to the 2001 attacks were inexcusable and often outrageous. The series of clear warnings about the potential use of hijacked planes as weapons is just one example of why the "surprise" of 9/11 should have been anticipated. In my view, proof of government complicity is not necessary when making the argument that the U.S. should accept some responsibility for what happened on 9/11.

Thank you again for writing.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama
United States Senator

OMG he totally thinks the US was responsible for the attacks for 9/11. It's spelled out clearly in the phrase "I do not believe the U.S. government was complicit in the attacks".

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:18 PM
ROFL....

http://www.dotcr.ost.dot.gov/asp/forkidsyouth/images/connect1.jpg

Perhaps you would explain how you think a Democrat would have kept prices low?

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:20 PM
OMG he totally thinks the US was responsible for the attacks for 9/11. It's spelled out clearly in the phrase "I do not believe the U.S. government was complicit in the attacks".

It would appear that Senator Obama believes that the US should accept some responsibility for 9/11.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:21 PM
And you call us sheep?

Are you saying there were lots of people saying those things on 9/12/01? Cuz not on this board there wasn't. But you were probably still in High School then so you probably had other things to think about.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 06:22 PM
Perhaps you would explain how you think a Democrat would have kept prices low?

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42652000/gif/_42652357_iraq_prov_sec_map416.gif

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:22 PM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42652000/gif/_42652357_iraq_prov_sec_map416.gif

You think that the present high price of crude has a lot to do with us invading Iraq?

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:23 PM
someone is just gonna have to ask Obama if he feels the same way ........ then see what happens.

From today:

Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 06:23 PM
Are you saying there were lots of people saying those things on 9/12/01? Cuz not on this board there wasn't. But you were probably still in High School then so you probably had other things to think about.

Reading comprehension, genius.

Without any attempt of due diligence, you automatically accept that post as truth not based on the merits of the poster or a source for the material, but because it's what you want to believe.

That is the epitome of sheepish behavior, and not just a smidge ironic given your constant use of "Baaarack".

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:25 PM
It would appear that Senator Obama believes that the US should accept some responsibility for 9/11.

You don't think we should even partly? I know I do. The government ****ed up by not protecting its citizens as they should. It is not personally anyone's fault but they did **** up. There were FBI agents who tried to alert people about ME men trying to fly planes but not land. The FBI is part of the government.

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:25 PM
It's going to be a fun convention. I may get some popcorn and attend personally.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 06:26 PM
Donger, on second thought, you're right. Tanks, Jets, Humvees don't use gas, fuel efficiency standards don't affect how much gas we use, and a president who was the only in history to be sued by the GAO for not releasing the members of his own Energy Commission, who comes from big oil, surely has nothing to hide.

Yup. Correlation does not imply causation. :sulk:

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:26 PM
You don't think we should even partly? I know I do. The government ****ed up by not protecting its citizens as they should. It is not personally anyone's fault but they did **** up. There were FBI agents who tried to alert people about ME men trying to fly planes but not land. The FBI is part of the government.

No. The responsibility rests with the terrorists who planned and executed the attack.

stevieray
03-13-2008, 06:26 PM
From today:

Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees.

:rolleyes:

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:28 PM
It would appear that Senator Obama believes that the US should accept some responsibility for 9/11.

Uh, 'Bin Laden determined to attack inside the United States'?

Rudy's botching of the command center locale?

How can you be naive enough to believe the government doesn't have to be held accountable for failures they made?

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:29 PM
Donger, on second thought, you're right. Tanks, Jets, Humvees don't use gas, fuel efficiency standards don't affect how much gas we use, and a president who was the only in history to be sued by the GAO for not releasing the members of his own Energy Commission, who comes from big oil, surely has nothing to hide.

Yup. Correlation does not imply causation. :sulk:

I actually do agree that Iraq has had some influence on the price of crude, but it has been minimal. The massive spike recently has more to do with the weak dollar and the resulting speculation than any thing else.

That being said, crude would be high right now regardless who occupies the office.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:30 PM
Reading comprehension, genius.

Without any attempt of due diligence, you automatically accept that post as truth not based on the merits of the poster or a source for the material, but because it's what you want to believe.

That is the epitome of sheepish behavior, and not just a smidge ironic given your constant use of "Baaarack".

Uh, that is why I asked if it was true and where it came from. :doh!: I check sources.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:30 PM
:rolleyes:

You don't have friends or family who say and believe really stupid things?

SBK
03-13-2008, 06:30 PM
From today:

Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees.

If a 20 year member of Fred Phelps church ran for President would you be so forgiving? Would you believe them when they said they disagreed with him?

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:31 PM
Uh, 'Bin Laden determined to attack inside the United States'?

Rudy's botching of the command center locale?

How can you be naive enough to believe the government doesn't have to be held accountable for failures they made?

Is the US government responsible for not preventing 9/11? Sure. They missed. They missed at Pearl Harbor, too.

Obama's comment seems to be implying that we should accept some responsibility for the act itself ("we asked for it").

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:32 PM
No. The responsibility rests with the terrorists who planned and executed the attack.

98% of the responsibility lies with the terrorists no question but we do have to take some responsibility for not doing everything we could.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:33 PM
Uh, 'Bin Laden determined to attack inside the United States'?

Rudy's botching of the command center locale?

How can you be naive enough to believe the government doesn't have to be held accountable for failures they made?

Yeah, these two are the primary reasons. :doh!: Nevermind the US meddling and manipulating the Middle East for at least 50 years. Not to mention their hand in elevating OBL and his movement to their position back in the 70s.

Do they not teach history prior to 2000 anymore? :rolleyes:

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 06:33 PM
I actually do agree that Iraq has had some influence on the price of crude, but it has been minimal. The massive spike recently has more to do with the weak dollar and the resulting speculation than any thing else.

That being said, crude would be high right now regardless who occupies the office.

And I am of the belief that the weak dollar has been buyoed (or anchored, if you would) by his continually idiotic economic proposals, including record-shattering deficit spending.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:34 PM
Obama's comment seems to be implying that we should accept some responsibility for the act itself ("we asked for it").

LMAO What in his statement even begins to imply that?

Geez.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:34 PM
If a 20 year member of Fred Phelps church ran for President would you be so forgiving? Would you believe them when they said they disagreed with him?

Nope and I have said repeatedly in this thread he should denounce him and drop him from his campaign.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:35 PM
Yeah, these two are the primary reasons. Nevermind the US meddling and manipulating the Middle East for at least 50 years. Not to mention their hand in elevating OBL and his movement to their position back in the 70s.

Do they not teach history prior to 2000 anymore? :rolleyes:

Uh, you're making the argument Donger is looking for(that the US deserved it). Obama's statement had to do with prevention and the ignoring of the warnings.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:35 PM
Is the US government responsible for not preventing 9/11? Sure. They missed. They missed at Pearl Harbor, too.

Obama's comment seems to be implying that we should accept some responsibility for the act itself ("we asked for it").

He is talking about our government messing up not that we asked for it.

Nice try Donger in the sentence above he states the reason why The series of clear warnings about the potential use of hijacked planes as weapons is just one example of why the "surprise" of 9/11 should have been anticipated.

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:36 PM
And I am of the belief that the weak dollar has been buyoed (or anchored, if you would) by his continually idiotic economic proposals, including record-shattering deficit spending.

No argument there. However, let's do acknowledge that this a globally-traded commodity. The POTUS (any POTUS) can do very little to influence the pricing.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:36 PM
No, you're making the argument Donger is looking for(that the US deserved it). Obama's statement had to do with prevention and the ignoring of the warnings.

No, I'm not. I'm trying to give you real reasons your Savior could have been referring too lest you look like an idiot.

noa
03-13-2008, 06:36 PM
If my house is robbed, responsibility will lie with the robbers. Of course, if I left my door open and that's how the robbers got in, the insurance company is probably going to tell me that I bear some responsibility as well.

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:38 PM
LMAO What in his statement even begins to imply that?

Geez.

Well, it could be read that way:

"In my view, proof of government complicity is not necessary when making the argument that the U.S. should accept some responsibility for what happened on 9/11."

What happened on 9/11?

Terrorists flew aircraft into buildings.

Why should the US accept some responsibility for that?

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:38 PM
If my house is robbed, responsibility will lie with the robbers. Of course, if I left my door open and that's how the robbers got in, the insurance company is probably going to tell me that I bear some responsibility as well.

Yep. Noa as always you are great with analogies.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:38 PM
No, I'm not. I'm trying to give you real reasons your Savior could have been referring too lest you look like an idiot.

He said what he was referring to right in the f*cking statement, asshat.

noa
03-13-2008, 06:39 PM
Reading the context of the letter, I definitely don't see Obama saying "we asked for it." He's saying that we should have done a better job reading the warning signs.

SBK
03-13-2008, 06:39 PM
Nope and I have said repeatedly in this thread he should denounce him and drop him from his campaign.

Do you think that Obama shares his views?

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:40 PM
Why should the US accept some responsibility for that?

Dear God, did you read the friggin' thing you posted?

"The series of clear warnings about the potential use of hijacked planes as weapons is just one example of why the "surprise" of 9/11 should have been anticipated."

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:42 PM
Dear God, did you read the friggin' thing you posted?

"The series of clear warnings about the potential use of hijacked planes as weapons is just one example of why the "surprise" of 9/11 should have been anticipated."

Being responsible for the prevention of the attack is not the same as being responsible for the attack itself.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:43 PM
Do you think that Obama shares his views?

Definitely not. If he did you would have known about it by now because there would be some evidence especially some years ago when he wasn't running for POTUS.

stevieray
03-13-2008, 06:44 PM
If my house is robbed, responsibility will lie with the robbers. Of course, if I left my door open and that's how the robbers got in, the insurance company is probably going to tell me that I bear some responsibility as well.

robbers are going to get in whether you lock your door or not. crossing the threshold constitutes the crime.

and fwiw, what could they have done? profiled, detained and interrogated thousands of travelers of middle eastern decent?

please.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:44 PM
Being responsible for the prevention of the attack is not the same as being responsible for the attack itself.

When you have intelligence about the threat and you ignore it, of course you're responsible for it.

Do yourself a favor and throw in the towel.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:44 PM
Being responsible for the prevention of the attack is not the same as being responsible for the attack itself.

Quit trying to stip up shit Donger he specifically said what he was talking about in the previous sentence

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:46 PM
Being responsible for the prevention of the attack is not the same as being responsible for the attack itself.


Thank you for contacting me regarding your belief that the U.S. government was complicit in the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. I appreciate hearing your passionate views on this matter.

While I do not believe the U.S. government was complicit in the attacks, I do think it should be held accountable for the unacceptable mistakes it made in the run-up to that terrible day. The blunders that occurred prior to the 2001 attacks were inexcusable and often outrageous. The series of clear warnings about the potential use of hijacked planes as weapons is just one example of why the "surprise" of 9/11 should have been anticipated. In my view, proof of government complicity is not necessary when making the argument that the U.S. should accept some responsibility for what happened on 9/11.


He lists ONE example of a mistake. But he also has bragged loud and often about his understanding of ME policy and how he KNEW the Iraq war was going to be a mistake based on his understanding of that policy.

Are you saying he educated himself about US policy in the ME sometime between 9/11 and that speech? Of course not.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:46 PM
robbers are going to get in whether you lock your door or not. crossing the threshold constitutes the crime.

and fwiw, what could they have done? profiled, detained and interrogated thousands of travelers of middle eastern decent?

please.

Umm they had FBI agents stating there were ME men trying to learn to fly planes but not land them. The higher ups in the FBI ignored them. These were the same people that flew the planes. DUH

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:46 PM
Quit trying to stip up shit Donger he specifically said what he was talking about in the previous sentence

ROFL

The general election is going to be a riot...

SBK
03-13-2008, 06:47 PM
Definitely not. If he did you would have known about it by now because there would be some evidence especially some years ago when he wasn't running for POTUS.

Would you spend 20 years going to a church and listening to a preacher you disagreed with? Would you bring your children to a church that was filled with preaching you disagreed with? If you wouldn't, do you know anyone that would?

vailpass
03-13-2008, 06:47 PM
heh heh heh the Obamanites are only getting the first taste of what is to come if he makes it to the general election.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:48 PM
He lists ONE example of a mistake. But he also has bragged loud and often about his understanding of ME policy and how he KNEW the Iraq war was going to be a mistake based on his understanding of that policy.

It was a f*cking paragraph response to some e-mail he got. You want a 10 page essay detailing all the missteps our intelligence community took?

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:49 PM
heh heh heh the Obamanites are only getting the first taste of what is to come if he makes it to the general election.

It's called an appetizer. :D

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:49 PM
When you have intelligence about the threat and you ignore it, of course you're responsible for it.

Do yourself a favor and throw in the towel.

Responsible for not preventing the attack, yes. Not the attack itself.

Didn't I just write that?

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:50 PM
It was a f*cking paragraph response to some e-mail he got. You want a 10 page essay detailing all the missteps our intelligence community took?


You still don't get it. It's not about our intelligence. It's about our POLICY. HE gets it. Some of HIS flock apparently doesn't.

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:51 PM
Quit trying to stip up shit Donger he specifically said what he was talking about in the previous sentence

Like I said, I could be read that way. He should have written:

"In my view, proof of government complicity is not necessary when making the argument that the U.S. should accept some responsibility for not preventing what happened on 9/11."

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:53 PM
Would you spend 20 years going to a church and listening to a preacher you disagreed with? Would you bring your children to a church that was filled with preaching you disagreed with? If you wouldn't, do you know anyone that would?

The problem is everyone thinks that all he talks about is a separatist message but he talks more about what happens in the black community.

Rev. Wright holds African Americnas accountable for the problems in their community. He is extrememly active in helping the homeless, providing AIDS eduation and outreach, Preventing Incarceration, addressing the large number of Absentee fathers etc. in the Balck community.

Listen I am not trying to defend him and Obama just needs to denounce him and get him off his campaign but I don't Obama will ever disavow him as a friend.

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:53 PM
heh heh heh the Obamanites are only getting the first taste of what is to come if he makes it to the general election.

He and his supporters do seem rather thin-skinned. That much is clear.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:53 PM
Responsible for not preventing the attack, yes. Not the attack itself.

Didn't I just write that?

He never said anything about the U.S. deserving or warranting the attack. Cut the bullshit. He specifically pointed to the failure of our government in ignoring the warnings and threats. It's the government's job to protect it's people and they didn't take all the necessary steps. Thus, that calls for accountability. And it's why you can't argue otherwise.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 06:54 PM
heh heh heh the Obamanites are only getting the first taste of what is to come if he makes it to the general election.

Yeah I can't wait until we get to dissect Cindy McCain and her theft and drug habits. This should be fun. :D

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:55 PM
He never said anything about the U.S. deserving or warranting the attack. Cut the bullshit. He specifically pointed to the failure of our government in ignoring the warnings and threats. It's the government's job to protect it's people and they didn't take all the necessary steps. Thus, that calls for accountability. And it's why you can't argue otherwise.

It was all good up until that last sentence, yes.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:55 PM
You still don't get it. It's not about our intelligence. It's about our POLICY. HE gets it. Some of HIS flock apparently doesn't.

He didn't f*cking say anything about policy in that statement. Where the hell are you getting that from?

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:55 PM
He and his supporters do seem rather thin-skinned. That much is clear.

Understatement of the year.

And, I think their candidate will end up being the same way.

Donger
03-13-2008, 06:57 PM
Understatement of the year.

And, I think their candidate will end up being the same way.

Didn't he have a press conference recently when he was asked some questions he didn't like and got all huffy?

stevieray
03-13-2008, 06:57 PM
Umm they had FBI agents stating there were ME men trying to learn to fly planes but not land them. The higher ups in the FBI ignored them. These were the same people that flew the planes. DUH

dude, use your common sense. what flight school is going to let people that say that into their planes? and what terrorists would say that, totally expsosing themselves?

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 06:58 PM
Didn't he have a press conference recently when he was asked some questions he didn't like and got all huffy?

You may be thinking of McCain. He did have an episode where he blew up on a reporter a week or so ago. Common mistake. Lots of people get the two confused.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:58 PM
Didn't he have a press conference recently when he was asked some questions he didn't like and got all huffy?

SHAME ON YOU, BARACK OBAMA

MEET ME IN OHIO

Obama's probably got the thickest skin out of him, Hillary, and McCain. Meme just happens to always end up on the retarded side of every argument.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 07:00 PM
SHAME ON YOU, BARACK OBAMA

MEET ME IN OHIO

Obama's probably got the thickest skin out of him, Hillary, and McCain. Meme just happens to always end up on the retarded side of every argument.

It is funny because the MSM has been all over for being too laid back while Hillary tries to eat him alive. You know if he actually got really angry in public, the new meme would be Obama is "an angry, black man" attacking an "older, white lady."

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 07:03 PM
You may be thinking of McCain. He did have an episode where he blew up on a reporter a week or so ago. Common mistake. Lots of people get the two confused.

Uh, no. It was Obama.

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http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/03/726268.aspx

These are questions that went unanswered as the press conference was cut short.

Much of the back and forth, though, between reporters and Obama was about his relationship with Tony Rezko, with reporters demanding to know why new details were emerging from the case though Obama and his staff had claimed they had been forthright with all the details.

Obama and Carol Marin, political editor at NBC5 in Chicago and columnist at the Chicago Sun-Times, tangled over how up front Obama had been about Rezko. Obama cut off her line of questioning, saying that Marin's questions were personally motivated.

"Carol, can I just say I have to really dispute this,” Obama said. “It is true that you wanted an individual sit down, but I don't think that's fair to speak for the entire Chicago press corps because on this -- Let me finish," he interjected as she tried to interrupt.

“Before you were reporting on these issues I had an avail,” Obama said, pointing to members of the Chicago press corps who were present, “where I literally stood there and took every question people could think of."

Lynn Sweet from the Chicago Sun-Times then jumped in and told Obama that he may have answered questions for the Chicago press, but many other reporters hadn't had a chance to hear him on the issue.

"I just want to make that point an issue," Obama said. "You may still have questions, which I'm happy to answer, but I don't think it's fair to suggest somehow that we've been trying to hide the ball on this. There have been more attacks. There have been several hundred stories written on this issue. The fact of the matter remains unchallenged."

Obama went on to detail his relationship with Rezko, repeating that the land deal had been a "bone-headed" move.

"On the other hand, there have been no allegations that I betrayed the public trust,” he argued. “There have been no allegations that I did him any favors.”

A third reporter followed, asking Obama why information about fundraisers or other details had not been answered by the campaign. He raised the issue of how details were emerging in the case, like the fact that Obama and Rezko had toured the property that resulted in the questionable land deal between the two men.

Obama continued to say that reporters' interest was due to the fact this was "a hot story."

He claimed that his campaign would be happy to provide the details, but when asked why the campaign hadn't been forthcoming, he said, "What happens is these requests I think can go on forever, and, at some point, we've tried to respond to what's pertinent to the question that's been raised."

He added, "There's no question that he raised money for us, and there's no dispute that we've tried to get rid of that money."

Toward the end of the press conference, the question of Goolsbee's meeting was raised again. Obama answered curtly and then walked out after a staffer called last question. The press erupted with shouts, but Obama continued to walk out.

He paused only to say, "Come on guys; I answered like eight questions. We're running late.”

On the flight from San Antonio to Dallas, Obama, unsurprisingly, did not wander back to make small talk with the traveling press corps.

SBK
03-13-2008, 07:05 PM
The problem is everyone thinks that all he talks about is a separatist message but he talks more about what happens in the black community.



Listen I am not trying to defend him and Obama just needs to denounce him and get him off his campaign but I don't Obama will ever disavow him as a friend.

I just can't see how people don't think that Obama shares this guys views. If Obama went to Fred Phelps church he wouldn't get the same treatment. This pastor is a racist, hatemonger. There's not any way that one would attend his church for 20 years if they did not agree. It's amazing to me that people just don't see this....

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 07:07 PM
dude, use your common sense. what flight school is going to let people that say that into their planes? and what terrorists would say that, totally expsosing themselves?

One of many examples

More than a year before 9/11, a Pakistani-British man told the FBI an incredible tale: that he had been trained by bin Laden’s followers to hijack airplanes and was now in America to carry out an attack. The FBI questioned him for weeks, but then let him go home, and never followed up. Now, the former al-Qaida insider is talking.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 07:11 PM
I just can't see how people don't think that Obama shares this guys views. If Obama went to Fred Phelps church he wouldn't get the same treatment. This pastor is a racist, hatemonger. There's not any way that one would attend his church for 20 years if they did not agree. It's amazing to me that people just don't see this....

There is zero proof that he believes the same way. Until there is I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

vailpass
03-13-2008, 07:14 PM
Yeah I can't wait until we get to dissect Cindy McCain and her theft and drug habits. This should be fun. :D

Oh I think we are in for some great fun, no doubt about it.

stevieray
03-13-2008, 07:14 PM
One of many examples

:rolleyes:

htismaqe
03-13-2008, 07:15 PM
There is zero proof that he believes the same way. Until there is I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

NOBODY else in this situation would get the benefit of the doubt. Certainly not anybody affiliated with a "mainstream" Christian church.

SBK
03-13-2008, 07:16 PM
There is zero proof that he believes the same way. Until there is I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

If 20 years under his teaching is zero proof that is.....Do you really think he'd stick around if he disagreed? Come on man, take off your blinders.

stevieray
03-13-2008, 07:16 PM
There is zero proof that he believes the same way. Until there is I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

if he puts money in the tithe plate, not only does he believe it, he financially supports it.

htismaqe
03-13-2008, 07:19 PM
If 20 years under his teaching is zero proof that is.....Do you really think he'd stick around if he disagreed? Come on man, take off your blinders.

It's going to be interesting, that's for sure.

On one hand, we're told that the accusations of Obama being a Muslim are ridiculous. After all, he's a dedicated, and even DEVOUT, Christian.

Of course, when it turns out that "Christian" in this case actually means "racist", these beliefs aren't really part of his core value system, and he's not that devout after all.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 07:20 PM
NOBODY else in this situation would get the benefit of the doubt. Certainly not anybody affiliated with a "mainstream" Christian church.

His church/denomination is NOT mainstream. I tried to demonstrate that in a previous thread.

htismaqe
03-13-2008, 07:20 PM
His church/denomination is NOT mainstream. I tried to demonstrate that in a previous thread.

Um, that's EXACTLY what I said.

Donger
03-13-2008, 07:22 PM
I still can't believe that the Democrats are putting either Obama or Clinton up against McCain.

SBK
03-13-2008, 07:22 PM
It's going to be interesting, that's for sure.

On one hand, we're told that the accusations of Obama being a Muslim are ridiculous. After all, he's a dedicated, and even DEVOUT, Christian.

Of course, when it turns out that "Christian" in this case actually means "racist", these beliefs aren't really part of his core value system, and he's not that devout after all.

No doubt, it's amazing to me that people actually think he'd attend a church for 20 years and disagree with the teaching there.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 07:22 PM
Um, that's EXACTLY what I said.

I thought so but I was just making sure incase someone seeing this thread missed that one.

You know, people are learning about HIM alittle more each day. Thus, some of these things we've talked about here for weeks are being heard for the first time by some folks who missed the discussion or passed it off as my ranting about something I don't know anything about. Ooops, maybe I did.:doh!:

SBK
03-13-2008, 07:23 PM
I still can't believe that the Democrats are putting either Obama or Clinton up against McCain.

It's looking more and more like a genious move. :evil:

Donger
03-13-2008, 07:23 PM
No doubt, it's amazing to me that people actually think he'd attend a church for 20 years and disagree with the teaching there.

As I understand it, he started attending this church when he began his public life. Perhaps he ignored the more radical views in order to garner political support?

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 07:27 PM
As I understand it, he started attending this church when he began his public life. Perhaps he ignored the more radical views in order to garner political support?

I don't think so. He has a history of 'radical' views which I would embrace if he were being HONEST about them. He's selling himself and his family as these moderate and mainstream regular folk and they are not.

SBK
03-13-2008, 07:28 PM
As I understand it, he started attending this church when he began his public life. Perhaps he ignored the more radical views in order to garner political support?

Nah, 20 years of listening to a racist rant from the pulpit wouldn't be ignored. It's not like this is the only church in Chicago.

Either he totally agrees, or his faith is of no importance to him. You wouldn't have your faith of high importance and then have to ignore each week's message....

To me Obama looks very, very bad here. He's either lying about the importance of his faith, or his views. This just doesn't pass a smell test.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 07:29 PM
All the nuts appear to have moved to one side of the room. It'll be much easier to keep track now. ;)

htismaqe
03-13-2008, 07:29 PM
He's either lying about the importance of his faith, or his views.

QFT

htismaqe
03-13-2008, 07:31 PM
All the nuts appear to have moved to one side of the room. It'll be much easier to keep track now. ;)

I'm very strongly anti-McCain. I've defended Obama in the past.

He's built his ENTIRE following on being "different" from the rest.

He either lied about the depth of his conviction, or he lied about what those convictions are. You can't have it both ways. Just further evidence that he isn't that different after all.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 07:31 PM
NOBODY else in this situation would get the benefit of the doubt. Certainly not anybody affiliated with a "mainstream" Christian church.

Maybe, maybe not. Pat Robertson has endorsed alot of candidates and he has said alot of stupid shit and I don't hear any political candidates denouncing him.

If 20 years under his teaching is zero proof that is.....Do you really think he'd stick around if he disagreed? Come on man, take off your blinders.

I understand but until you have proof then I will give him the benefit of the doubt. There is not 1 instance where Obama said anything close to what his pastor has said. Not 1 in 10+ years of public service.

htismaqe
03-13-2008, 07:34 PM
Maybe, maybe not. Pat Robertson has endorsed alot of candidates and he has said alot of stupid shit and I don't hear any political candidates denouncing him.

How many of those candidates made an issue out of the fact that they were Pat Robertson followers?

Pat Robertson endorsing someone is like Farrakhan endorsing Obama - you can't keep someone from endorsing you, but you don't have to "endorse" them back.

This is quite a bit different. Obama has repeatedly shrouded himself in his Christianity when it's been politically expedient. It's going to be very difficult to now distance himself from the very thing he's used to protect himself in the past.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 07:34 PM
His church/denomination is NOT mainstream. I tried to demonstrate that in a previous thread.

I found this interesting

Interestingly, the U.S. Congregational Life Survey, published in 2002, found that UCC members, slightly more than members of other mainline denominations, listed traditional hymns and biblically-sound preaching as being essential to good worship. Surprising to some, the same study also found that slightly more UCC members self-identified as conservative rather than liberal a tidbit that President Calvin Coolidge, a conservative Republican and the nation's only Congregationalist president (1923-1929), might have found interesting.

Also the leader of the UCC has come to Obama's defense earlier this year to say they are not

A ramped-up smear campaign against the UCC's largest congregation and U.S. Sen. Barack Obama's home church — Trinity UCC in Chicago (http://www.tucc.org/) — has raised the ire of the Rev. John H. Thomas, the UCC's general minister and president, who called the e-mail-driven claims "absurd, mean-spirited and politically motivated."
"Our national offices in Cleveland, as well as other settings of the UCC, have been forwarded countless e-mails that obviously derive from a similar source," Thomas said. "They contain misleading statements obviously meant to undermine the integrity of one of our most vibrant, mission-driven congregations."
Thomas said, while it's not his intent to come to the aid of Obama or any presidential candidate, he does feel it's imperative that "absurd, mean-spirited and politically-motivated attacks against one of our UCC churches be challenged forthrightly."
Obama, who is seeking the Democratic nomination for president, has been a member of Trinity UCC for 20 years.
Since Obama won the Iowa caucuses on Jan. 3, a flurry of e-mail messages with identical language and sentiment began circulating across the internet, claiming that Trinity UCC was a "racist" congregation because of its long-stated church motto: "Unashamedly Black, Unapologetically Christian."
"Trinity UCC is rooted in and proud of its Afrocentric heritage," Thomas said. "This is no different than the hundreds of UCC churches from the German Evangelical and Reformed stream that continue to own and celebrate their German heritage, insisting on annual sausage and sauerkraut dinners and singing Stille Nacht on Christmas Eve. Recognizing and celebrating our distinctive racial-ethnic heritages, cultures, languages and customs are what make us unique as a united and uniting denomination."

SBK
03-13-2008, 07:34 PM
Maybe, maybe not. Pat Robertson has endorsed alot of candidates and he has said alot of stupid shit and I don't hear any political candidates denouncing him.



I understand but until you have proof then I will give him the benefit of the doubt. There is not 1 instance where Obama said anything close to what his pastor has said. Not 1 in 10+ years of public service.

Just a hunch, but I would be that there's lots of things Obama believes that he's never spoken about in 10+ years of public service.

Can you admit that there's even a chance that Obama is racist, that he agrees with the teaching he's placed himself under for the last 20 years?

SBK
03-13-2008, 07:36 PM
Since Obama won the Iowa caucuses on Jan. 3, a flurry of e-mail messages with identical language and sentiment began circulating across the internet, claiming that Trinity UCC was a "racist" congregation because of its long-stated church motto: "Unashamedly Black, Unapologetically Christian."

Holy crap, can you imagine a church that said they were "Unashamedly WHITE, Unapologetically Christian? ROFL

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 07:37 PM
How many of those candidates made an issue out of the fact that they were Pat Robertson followers?

Pat Robertson endorsing someone is like Farrakhan endorsing Obama - you can't keep someone from endorsing you, but you don't have to "endorse" them back.

This is quite a bit different. Obama has repeatedly shrouded himself in his Christianity when it's been politically expedient. It's going to be very difficult to now distance himself from the very thing he's used to protect himself in the past.

That is a fair point. Like I said I am hoping tonight or tomorrow morning Obama comes out and makes a statement and totally distances himself from Wright.

Donger
03-13-2008, 07:37 PM
Holy crap, can you imagine a church that said they were "Unashamedly WHITE, Unapologetically Christian? ROFL

I'm sure that they have some white members, no?

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 07:38 PM
I'm very strongly anti-McCain. I've defended Obama in the past.

He's built his ENTIRE following on being "different" from the rest.

He either lied about the depth of his conviction, or he lied about what those convictions are. You can't have it both ways. Just further evidence that he isn't that different after all.

I don't think he's gone out of his way to 'play up' his faith(other than the 'I pray to Jesus' thing after the Kenyan garb pic came out). I don't really think he's an incredibly deeply religious man, but if he doesn't defend himself the Muslim stuff just gains more traction. Either way, people are going to want to believe he's some radical islamist or that he's part of some black separatist movement. I don't think most of those plan on voting for him anyway and I don't think he can win either way.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 07:41 PM
Just a hunch, but I would be that there's lots of things Obama believes that he's never spoken about in 10+ years of public service.

Can you admit that there's even a chance that Obama is racist, that he agrees with the teaching he's placed himself under for the last 20 years?

Yes I can say there is a chance, there is always a chance.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 07:41 PM
I'm sure that they have some white members, no?

Yes they actually have alot of white members

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 07:43 PM
Can you admit that there's even a chance that Obama is racist, that he agrees with the teaching he's placed himself under for the last 20 years?

Jesus Christ, this is the retarded conversation that silly stuff always evolves into.

Obama was raised by his white mother and white grandparents. :shake:

Donger
03-13-2008, 07:44 PM
Yes they actually have alot of white members

Good.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 07:49 PM
No argument there. However, let's do acknowledge that this a globally-traded commodity. The POTUS (any POTUS) can do very little to influence the pricing.

If their economic policies lead to a devaluation of the dollar, which is the most important backing commodity for oil, how wouldn't it influence it? It's not a coincidence that a record low dollar equates to record high oil.

irishjayhawk
03-13-2008, 07:50 PM
Interesting.

If you have no faith, you cannot get elected. (See Atheists)
If you have the wrong faith, you cannot get elected. (See Muslims)
If you have the right faith but the wrong Church, you cannot get elected. (See Mormon)
If you have the right faith and the right Church but a bad pastor, you cannot get elected. (See Obama)


Damn, and they say there's no religious test for office.........

SBK
03-13-2008, 07:50 PM
Jesus Christ, this is the retarded conversation that silly stuff always evolves into.

Obama was raised by his white mother and white grandparents. :shake:

I'm not saying he is, I just find it amazing that people think there is no freaking way that he is, even though he's attend a church that teaches racism for 20 years.

Your and idiot by the way. Obama has come to save us, and is all good things and nothing bad that's even been thought about him could ever be true.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 07:52 PM
I actually do agree that Iraq has had some influence on the price of crude, but it has been minimal. The massive spike recently has more to do with the weak dollar and the resulting speculation than any thing else.

That being said, crude would be high right now regardless who occupies the office.

I definitely agree it would be higher than when I was a Jr. in high school and filling up my car at 75 cents a gallon. Significantly so. I could see how it could be 50-60 bucks a barrel...but not 100.

SBK
03-13-2008, 07:52 PM
Yes I can say there is a chance, there is always a chance.

I'm not picking on you by the way, it seems you're the a rarity, being a level headed Obama supporter.

Still waiting on jAZ to chime in on this.....ROFL

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 07:53 PM
I'm not saying he is, I just find it amazing that people think there is no freaking way that he is.

How do I know you're not racist? How do you know I'm not?

It's just disgusting for you to make accusations like that and I think it's proof you just aren't very informed on his background.

Bootlegged
03-13-2008, 07:54 PM
Politicians are all scumbags.

Donger
03-13-2008, 07:55 PM
If their economic policies lead to a devaluation of the dollar, which is the most important backing commodity for oil, how wouldn't it influence it? It's not a coincidence that a record low dollar equates to record high oil.

I didn't say he has no influence, just very little, considerably less than some think. Such as those who would vote for someone else of a different party based on that belief.

wazu
03-13-2008, 07:55 PM
I heard these sound clips on Limbaugh's show today. That guy is a FREAK! This is the man that Obama has been looking to for spiritual advice for the last 20 years? "Crazy" uncle? More like "racist, hatemonger" of an uncle, who Obama takes his kids to listen to once a week in the name of spiritual growth.

This is a disturbing development.

Logical
03-13-2008, 07:55 PM
After watching that I find myself wondering if jAZ is going to show up and blast this guy the same way he would if Pat Robertson or the like would have said any of this...talk about the "radical christian black left" or something like it.......


Why should he, you would have to be blind not to have seen what the reverend is basing his statements on. Sure he is engaging in hyperbole to stir the passions of his congregation. But he did not say a single thing to encourage unlawful behavior. It is not against the law to hate the oppression that is still common for many Americans. There also is some truth in his statement about the US's actions over the last 40 years in the Middle East and Africa.

I find the indignation of people on this BB amusing.:rolleyes:

Donger
03-13-2008, 07:57 PM
I definitely agree it would be higher than when I was a Jr. in high school and filling up my car at 75 cents a gallon. Significantly so. I could see how it could be 50-60 bucks a barrel...but not 100.

Well, it's all hypothetical of course. When were you a junior in HS?

Sully
03-13-2008, 07:57 PM
While I think Obama's church has done a piss poor job of describing in more detail the thoughts behind Liberation Theology and how it fits in with their preaching and their mission statement, it's clear that many (including me to a great extent) are uneducated about what that language means.
I'm in the same boat. I'm trying to learn about it. But the more I learn, the more I find it's not racist. it's not about black superiority. And it's not about the kind of racism that most want to paint it as. Does it deal with issues like race in terms that sound racist? I think it does (like I said, his church does a piss poor job in detailing the ideal behind it). I think they should do a much better job explaining these things we can get caught up in because I'm curious about it, and because I think they make it too easy for those who want to be offended by it to be so.

As for some other things in this thread.
Can a person go to a church, donate to that church, and disagree with the minister of that church. Absolutely. I see it every day. A lot.

Also... as much as memyself wants to paint it as not... UCC IS a mainline denomination.

dirk digler
03-13-2008, 07:57 PM
I'm not picking on you by the way, it seems you're the a rarity, being a level headed Obama supporter.


Thanks. I try to be level headed to everyone except honestchieffan. :)

Not that this is news but what we learned about the Spitzer hooker deal is that ANYONE can be a huge hypocrite.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 08:01 PM
Well, it's all hypothetical of course. When were you a junior in HS?

98-99.

Logical
03-13-2008, 08:02 PM
While I think Obama's church has done a piss poor job of describing in more detail the thoughts behind Liberation Theology and how it fits in with their preaching and their mission statement, it's clear that many (including me to a great extent) are uneducated about what that language means.
I'm in the same boat. I'm trying to learn about it. But the more I learn, the more I find it's not racist. it's not about black superiority. And it's not about the kind of racism that most want to paint it as. Does it deal with issues like race in terms that sound racist? I think it does (like I said, his church does a piss poor job in detailing the ideal behind it). I think they should do a much better job explaining these things we can get caught up in because I'm curious about it, and because I think they make it too easy for those who want to be offended by it to be so.

As for some other things in this thread.
Can a person go to a church, donate to that church, and disagree with the minister of that church. Absolutely. I see it every day. A lot.

Also... as much as memyself wants to paint it as not... UCC IS a mainline denomination.:clap::clap::clap: Great post

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 08:02 PM
I'm very strongly anti-McCain. I've defended Obama in the past.

He's built his ENTIRE following on being "different" from the rest.

He either lied about the depth of his conviction, or he lied about what those convictions are. You can't have it both ways. Just further evidence that he isn't that different after all.


He's had it both ways re: race, why not religion?

htismaqe
03-13-2008, 08:06 PM
Politicians are all scumbags.

That's about how I feel.

SBK
03-13-2008, 08:06 PM
Thanks. I try to be level headed to everyone except honestchieffan. :)

Not that this is news but what we learned about the Spitzer hooker deal is that ANYONE can be a huge hypocrite.

Yeah, Spitzer's a real douche.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 08:28 PM
I heard these sound clips on Limbaugh's show today. That guy is a FREAK! This is the man that Obama has been looking to for spiritual advice for the last 20 years? "Crazy" uncle? More like "racist, hatemonger" of an uncle, who Obama takes his kids to listen to once a week in the name of spiritual growth.

This is a disturbing development.

You listen to Rush. That dude is a freak.

stevieray
03-13-2008, 08:30 PM
USKKKA is a message we all can get behind

Joe Seahawk
03-13-2008, 08:32 PM
Whoa! this dude is like a black supremist..

Imagine if Mccains spiritual advisor was a KKK guy..

banyon
03-13-2008, 08:34 PM
if he puts money in the tithe plate, not only does he believe it, he financially supports it.

Tithing is not an endorsement of your preacher's speech that day, and it doesn't directly go into his wallet. It's a biblical duty.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 08:38 PM
Imagine if Mccains spiritual advisor was a KKK guy..

Almost.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=181574

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 09:07 PM
I guess Obama's distance from his pastor was politically motivated and quite recent. :rolleyes: And if he throws him under the bus it could get quite complicated for him and his support from other pastors. ROFL

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/politics/06obama.html

Disinvitation by Obama Is Criticized

CHICAGO, March 5 — The Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., senior pastor of the popular Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and spiritual mentor to Senator Barack Obama, thought he knew what he would be doing on Feb. 10, the day of Senator Obama’s presidential announcement.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/03/06/us/06obama_lg.jpg

After all, back in January, Mr. Obama had asked Mr. Wright if he would begin the event by delivering a public invocation.

But Mr. Wright said Mr. Obama called him the night before the Feb. 10 announcement and rescinded the invitation to give the invocation.

“Fifteen minutes before Shabbos I get a call from Barack,” Mr. Wright said in an interview on Monday, recalling that he was at an interfaith conference at the time. “One of his members had talked him into uninviting me,” Mr. Wright said, referring to Mr. Obama’s campaign advisers.

Some black leaders are questioning Mr. Obama’s decision to distance his campaign from Mr. Wright because of the campaign’s apparent fear of criticism over Mr. Wright’s teachings, which some say are overly Afrocentric to the point of excluding whites.

Bill Burton, a spokesman for the Obama campaign, said the campaign disinvited Mr. Wright because it did not want the church to face negative attention. Mr. Wright did however, attend the announcement and prayed with Mr. Obama beforehand.

“Senator Obama is proud of his pastor and his church, but because of the type of attention it was receiving on blogs and conservative talk shows, he decided to avoid having statements and beliefs being used out of context and forcing the entire church to defend itself,” Mr. Burton said.

Instead, Mr. Obama asked Mr. Wright’s successor as pastor at Trinity, the Rev. Otis Moss III, to speak. Mr. Moss declined.

In recent weeks, word of Mr. Obama’s treatment of Mr. Wright has reached black leaders like the Rev. Al Sharpton and given them pause.

“I have not discussed this with Senator Obama in detail, but I can see why callers of mine and other clergymen would be concerned, because the issue is standing by your own pastor,” Mr. Sharpton said.

Mr. Wright’s church, the 8,000-member Trinity United Church of Christ, is considered mainstream — Oprah Winfrey has attended services, and many members are prominent black professionals. But the church is also more Afrocentric and politically active than standard black congregations.

Mr. Wright helped organize the 1995 Million Man March on Washington and along with other United Church of Christ ministers was one of the first black religious leaders to protest apartheid and welcome gay and lesbian worshippers.

Since Mr. Obama made his presidential ambitions clear, conservatives have drawn attention to his close relationship to Mr. Wright and to the church’s emphasis on black empowerment. Tucker Carlson of MSNBC called the precepts “racially exclusive” and “wrong.” Last week, on the Fox News program “Hannity & Colmes,” Erik Rush, a conservative columnist, called the church “quite cultish, quite separatist.”

In Monday’s interview, Mr. Wright expressed disappointment but no surprise that Mr. Obama might try to play down their connection.

“When his enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli” to visit Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, Mr. Wright recalled, “with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell.” Mr. Wright added that his trip implied no endorsement of either Louis Farrakhan’s views or Qaddafi’s.

Mr. Wright said that in the phone conversation in which Mr. Obama disinvited him from a role in the announcement, Mr. Obama cited an article in Rolling Stone, “The Radical Roots of Barack Obama.”

According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”

Patrick Healy contributed reporting from Washington.

wazu
03-13-2008, 09:09 PM
You listen to Rush. That dude is a freak.

No disagreement here. It's usually either Rush or Sports radio during lunch when I'm in my car. When it's the offseason for football that usually means Rush for me. It's entertaining radio.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 09:10 PM
I guess Obama's distance from his pastor was politically motivated and quite recent. :rolleyes:.

I thought you were bitching that he needed to distance himself. Now it's not good enough?

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 09:13 PM
I thought you were bitching that he needed to distance himself. Now it's not good enough?

He distanced himself THE DAY HE ANNOUNCED HIS PRESIDENTIAL RUN. ROFLROFLROFL

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 10:02 PM
I thought you were bitching that he needed to distance himself. Now it's not good enough?

She is going to see whatever Obama does in a negative light.

Hydrae
03-13-2008, 10:11 PM
I still say a charismatic indy could win this time. Noone likes any of the three that are left.

Ari Chi3fs
03-13-2008, 10:12 PM
acceptable. Wow.

beer bacon
03-13-2008, 10:17 PM
I still say a charismatic indy could win this time. Noone likes any of the three that are left.

There are plenty of democrats that still like Obama and/or Hillary. I think apathy is a republican phenomenon this election.

Cochise
03-13-2008, 11:35 PM
I never thought that the Revhhhhrend Jachhhhksonnnnnn would look like a respectable spiritual advisor.

Cochise
03-13-2008, 11:42 PM
There are plenty of democrats that still like Obama and/or Hillary. I think apathy is a republican phenomenon this election.

Disunity will often exist until unity is required. The fight hasn't begun yet, really. When a group feels threats from outside it becomes more concentric. Once the Democrats sort out who they want the lines will be drawn.