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HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:05 PM
And boy does he hate Islam.

http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

Parsley is not shy about his desire to obliterate Islam. In Silent No More, he notes—approvingly—that Christopher Columbus shared the same goal: "It was to defeat Islam, among other dreams, that Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World in 1492…Columbus dreamed of defeating the armies of Islam with the armies of Europe made mighty by the wealth of the New World. It was this dream that, in part, began America." He urges his readers to realize that a confrontation between Christianity and Islam is unavoidable: "We find now we have no choice. The time has come." And he has bad news: "We may already be losing the battle. As I scan the world, I find that Islam is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed, and more devastation than nearly any other force on earth at this moment."

Parsley claims that Islam is an "anti-Christ religion" predicated on "deception." The Muslim prophet Muhammad, he writes, "received revelations from demons and not from the true God." And he emphasizes this point: "Allah was a demon spirit." Parsley does not differentiate between violent Islamic extremists and other followers of the religion:

There are some, of course, who will say that the violence I cite is the exception and not the rule. I beg to differ. I will counter, respectfully, that what some call "extremists" are instead mainstream believers who are drawing from the well at the very heart of Islam.

The spirit of Islam, he maintains, is one of hostility. He asserts that the religion "inspired" the 9/11 attacks. He bemoans the fact that in the years after 9/11, 34,000 Americans "have become Muslim" and that there are "some 1,209 mosques" in America. Islam, he declares, is a "faith that fully intends to conquer the world" through violence. The United States, he insists, "has historically understood herself as a bastion against Islam," but "history is crashing in upon us."

At the end of his chapter on Islam, Parsley asks, "Are we a Christian nation? I say yes." Without specifying what actions should be taken to eradicate the religion, he essentially calls for a new crusade.

memyselfI
03-13-2008, 06:12 PM
That settles it. I won't vote for McCain either. ROFL

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:13 PM
I WONDER IF MCCAIN BELIEVES THE SAME THING

SBK
03-13-2008, 06:18 PM
John McCain isn't a black man living in a world ruled by rich white people so he doesn't know what it's like to be called an "n-word"!

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:24 PM
Yeah, I'm not expecting to see the same outrage from the same people.

SBK
03-13-2008, 06:32 PM
Yeah, I'm not expecting to see the same outrage from the same people.

Did John McCain attend a church for 20 years that has racist hate speech coming from the pulpit? Did he have a hatemonger perform his wedding? Has he given financially to the ministry of a racist?

Nice try but this is comparing apples/oranges. And I don't even like McCain.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:48 PM
Did John McCain attend a church for 20 years that has racist hate speech coming from the pulpit? Did he have a hatemonger perform his wedding? Has he given financially to the ministry of a racist?

You don't have any friends or family that are racist or have said really stupid things? Really?

Nice try but this is comparing apples/oranges.

You're attributing the opinions of someone Obama has sought spiritual advice from with Obama. McCain sought spiritual advice from someone who says his desire is to see Islam destroyed. McCain has also embraced someone who thinks Catholicism is a fake religion and that it worked with Hitler to try and exterminate the Jews, and also blamed the people of New Orleans for Hurricane Katrina.

And I don't even like McCain.

No, you're just going to vote for him.

SBK
03-13-2008, 06:54 PM
You don't have any friends or family that are racist or have said really stupid things? Really?



You're attributing the opinions of someone Obama has sought spiritual advice from with Obama. McCain sought spiritual advice from someone who says his desire is to see Islam destroyed. McCain has also embraced someone who thinks Catholicism is a fake religion and that it worked with Hitler to try and exterminate the Jews, and also blamed the people of New Orleans for Hurricane Katrina.



No, you're just going to vote for him.

Actually, no, I'm not going to vote for McCain. How can you not see a difference between an advisor you speak to occasionally and the pastor/church you've attended for 20 years?

I'm guessing you don't ever go to church and don't understand how the pastor/congregation thing works?

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 06:58 PM
Actually, no, I'm not going to vote for McCain. How can you not see a difference between an advisor you speak to occasionally and the pastor/church you've attended for 20 years?

I'm guessing you don't ever go to church and don't understand how the pastor/congregation thing works?

You don't care about the distinction. You'd be making the same stupid argument even if Obama had Wright working as a part time advisor.

The fact is Wright has become like family to Obama. That doesn't mean he shares his views on everything you're accusing him of. I have family friends who are completely batty who I would ultimately defend when push came to shove. Do you not have friends and/or family who believe or say stupid things that you vehemently disagree with?

Sully
03-13-2008, 06:59 PM
I'm guessing you don't ever go to church and don't understand how the pastor/congregation thing works?

I understand it in a very detailed way. And I agree with him.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 07:07 PM
Did John McCain attend a church for 20 years that has racist hate speech coming from the pulpit? Did he have a hatemonger perform his wedding? Has he given financially to the ministry of a racist?

Nice try but this is comparing apples/oranges. And I don't even like McCain.

That is some amazingly retarded moral relativism.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 07:10 PM
That is some amazingly retarded moral relativism.

I give SBK a little credit. Most of them bashing Obama in the other thread don't even want to touch this one.

Ultra Peanut
03-13-2008, 07:25 PM
A: "Okay John, say you like Jesus."
M: "My friends, I don't understand what you're trying to tell me."
A: "Say it like this: I. Love. Jeeeeezus."
M: "I hate? Jesse?"
A: "No. I love Jesus. Love."
M: "I love Jews."
A: "No no, John. But that's better."
M: "Jesus? I shove Jews."
A: "Ye--no. Try again."
M: "I Jesus. I LOVE JESUS!"
A: "Yes! Yes, my boy! You have it!"
M: "I am Jesus?"
A: "Close enough. Moving on, try this: 'Radical Islam is a dire threat to our national security.'"
M: "BOMB BOMB BOMB, BOMB BOMB IRAN!"
A: "I quit."

a1na2
03-13-2008, 07:29 PM
A: "Okay John, say you like Jesus."
M: "My friends, I don't understand what you're trying to tell me."
A: "Say it like this: I. Love. Jeeeeezus."
M: "I hate? Jesse?"
A: "No. I love Jesus. Love."
M: "I love Jews."
A: "No no, John. But that's better."
M: "Jesus? I shove Jews."
A: "Ye--no. Try again."
M: "I Jesus. I LOVE JESUS!"
A: "Yes! Yes, my boy! You have it!"
M: "I am Jesus?"
A: "Close enough. Moving on, try this: 'Radical Islam is a dire threat to our national security.'"
M: "BOMB BOMB BOMB, BOMB BOMB IRAN!"
A: "I quit."

That is the most ignorant thing I've ever seen on this board.

I'd say more but I think that you'd probably just get excited.

Ultra Peanut
03-13-2008, 07:32 PM
That is the most ignorant thing I've ever seen on this board. You have yourself on ignore?

banyon
03-13-2008, 07:43 PM
I have family friends who are completely batty who I would ultimately defend when push came to shove. Do you not have friends and/or family who believe or say stupid things that you vehemently disagree with?

No one seems very eager to answer that question, huh? :hmmm:

a1na2
03-13-2008, 07:50 PM
You have yourself on ignore?

You have your opinion, I have mine. Your arrogance makes you think what I say has no value. Your posts make me think that what you say has no value.

Ultra Peanut
03-13-2008, 07:51 PM
One small correction: Your worthlessness makes me think that what you say has no value.

Logical
03-13-2008, 07:54 PM
Somehow I doubt the media is going to make as big a deal out of this as they are doing with Obama's Pastor. What a crock of shit if you ask me.

Jenson71
03-13-2008, 07:58 PM
Somehow I doubt the media is going to make as big a deal out of this as they are doing with Obama's Pastor. What a crock of shit if you ask me.

If the situation were more similar, if this guy was McCain's pastor, I doubt it would be that big of a deal still. Muslims are probably not thought of as a group that really matters in the U.S.

"Well, that's mean of Parsley to say, and it's a bit over the top, but it does have some truth in it."

Count Zarth
03-13-2008, 08:09 PM
McCain is a closet religious nut. That's why I hate the bastard. He's probably a hypocrite, too, though.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 08:12 PM
McCain's not a religious nut. The knock on him from a lot of the Right would be that he's not religious enough.

Count Zarth
03-13-2008, 08:13 PM
Your arrogance makes you think what I say has no value..

How ironic. YOUR arrogance makes many think what you say has no value.

Count Zarth
03-13-2008, 08:14 PM
McCain's not a religious nut. The knock on him from a lot of the Right would be that he's not religious enough.

It depends on your definition of a religious nut. Some might consider Huckabee a religious nut. McCain is far more dangerous.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2008, 08:30 PM
You have your opinion, I have mine. Your arrogance makes you think what I say has no value. Your posts make me think that what you say has no value.

Youuu'rrree myyyyy satelliiiiiite
Youuu'rrree riiidin' with me toniiight
Passenger side
Lighting the sky
Always the first starlight I find
Youuu'rre myyyy sateliiiiiiite

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 08:35 PM
If the situation were more similar, if this guy was McCain's pastor, I doubt it would be that big of a deal still. Muslims are probably not thought of as a group that really matters in the U.S.

"Well, that's mean of Parsley to say, and it's a bit over the top, but it does have some truth in it."

It's quite clear. This topic has been up for the last few hours and there haven't been any of the people bashing Obama in the other topic going crazy about this like they did about Wright.

plbrdude
03-13-2008, 08:38 PM
Somehow I doubt the media is going to make as big a deal out of this as they are doing with Obama's Pastor. What a crock of shit if you ask me.


i tend to agree. in 2000 i was hoping mcCain would make a run. now i look at the field and wonder how we could end up with just these options for pres. regardless who the dems pick. makes me want to not vote.

SBK
03-13-2008, 09:04 PM
That is some amazingly retarded moral relativism.

You care to chime in on Obama's pastor oh beacon of truth and morality?

mikey23545
03-13-2008, 09:15 PM
No one seems very eager to answer that question, huh? :hmmm:

By your previous ignorant posts, you've already proven you just ignore common sense in this matter. So it does very little good to debate it. Oh well, I'm bored.

Your friends? Some hold ignorant views, you just shrug and ignore that part of them. Family? You can't help who you're related to. Same reaction as the friends.

YOUR SPIRITUAL ADVISOR? You personally select them because they say things that ring true in your soul. You stick with them for 20 years? They obviously speak "truths" you believe deeply.

You are using such an asinine argument to defend Obama you are obviously intellectually dishonest. You don't believe the crap spewing from your keyboard for even one second. Pretending you see no distinction between Obama's minister and someone elses friend or relative? Pure sophistry.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 09:20 PM
YOUR SPIRITUAL ADVISOR? You personally select them because they say things that ring true in your soul. You stick with them for 20 years? They obviously speak "truths" you believe deeply.

So you gonna vote for McCain?

Hydrae
03-13-2008, 09:21 PM
i tend to agree. in 2000 i was hoping mcCain would make a run. now i look at the field and wonder how we could end up with just these options for pres. regardless who the dems pick. makes me want to not vote.

It almost seems like the choices get worse every time around. They are having to really work at it to be worse than the last two though.

SBK
03-13-2008, 09:24 PM
By your previous ignorant posts, you've already proven you just ignore common sense in this matter. So it does very little good to debate it. Oh well, I'm bored.

Your friends? Some hold ignorant views, you just shrug and ignore that part of them. Family? You can't help who you're related to. Same reaction as the friends.

YOUR SPIRITUAL ADVISOR? You personally select them because they say things that ring true in your soul. You stick with them for 20 years? They obviously speak "truths" you believe deeply.

You are using such an asinine argument to defend Obama you are obviously intellectually dishonest. You don't believe the crap spewing from your keyboard for even one second. Pretending you see no distinction between Obama's minister and someone elses friend or relative? Pure sophistry.

Bingo. My work here is done. :)

a1na2
03-13-2008, 09:25 PM
One small correction: Your worthlessness makes me think that what you say has no value.


There is more innate value in the following few words than anything you could ever say.

"God Loves me as much as he loves you."

The following words indicate the value you have overall.

" "

Get the picture?

a1na2
03-13-2008, 09:26 PM
How ironic. YOUR arrogance makes many think what you say has no value.

Shut up Clayton and go home to Nick and your beloved board. You know, the one that you made the statement that this board was worthless.

mikey23545
03-13-2008, 09:27 PM
So you gonna vote for McCain?

:spock:

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 09:29 PM
It was a yes or no question, Miguel.

Count Zarth
03-13-2008, 10:04 PM
Shut up Clayton and go home to Nick and your beloved board.

Don't act like you don't love it, Mr. Whachamacallit.


You know, the one that you made the statement that this board was worthless.

You sure are gullible, Tom.

Otter
03-13-2008, 10:22 PM
There should be a "FLUSH THE TOILET AND START OVER" check box on all ballots this year.

God help us all.

mikey23545
03-13-2008, 10:25 PM
There should be a "FLUSH THE TOILET AND START OVER" check box on all ballots this year.

God help us all.

Finally, one post in DC I wholeheartedly agree with.

Cochise
03-13-2008, 10:31 PM
I wonder how many active conflicts there are in the world right now, and how many involve Islam on at least one side?

I don't buy that the religion itself is to blame, but the radical practice of it, but the world seems to be moving to a place like it was prior to the cold war, where the primary geopolitical conflict might be A vs B, in that case it was in some ways the Soviet Union against non-Soviet aligned countries, and in this case it's this radical stripe of Islam against all non-Islamic or non-sufficiently Islamic (in their view) powers.

In both cases I think the other attempted to gain power through expansion, and installing friendly regimes in new places. It wasn't too long ago a Taliban-like regime attempted to take over the vacuum in Somalia, although they were run out.

I wonder if it would play out the same way, however, since previously we had state powers against whom MAD was a deterrent, but in this case it does not seem to be as much.

:shrug:

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 10:37 PM
Cochise wins Jenson's Rationalization Award.

The double standard has been quite delicious.

Cochise
03-13-2008, 10:40 PM
Cochise wins Jenson's Rationalization Award.

The double standard has been quite delicious.

I didn't rationalize anything I can think of. I specifically delineated how far my agreement went, which is not far.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 10:43 PM
I didn't rationalize anything I can think of. I specifically delineated how far my agreement went, which is not far.

You weren't obligated to show how much you agree with the nutcase. You could've just insulted him like you did Wright.

Cochise
03-13-2008, 10:45 PM
You weren't obligated to show how much you agree with the nutcase. You could've just insulted him like you did Wright.

I was going to make a comment unrelated to him, but supposing that any post lacking summary condemnation would be taken as approval, which you have done, I decided to preface the comments with what should be an unnecessary disclaimer. I see even posting that I don't agree was taken as agreement, though, so I'm not sure why I even tried.

HolmeZz
03-13-2008, 10:46 PM
Hey smart guy! Spin it any way you want, but you also don't see the same people over here defending this douchebag, the way you LWNJ's stood up for Barry Hussein Obama and the good Reverend Wright. "You gotta understand the plight of the black man..." It's all...oh so tired.

blah blah hussein blah blah

Feel free to quote a post of someone defending Wright's comments. I know I didn't defend them and I don't remember seeing a post of anyone else doing so. But the fact you're deflecting from the fact McCain has a similar hate-filled go-to spiritual man says plenty.

Logical
03-13-2008, 10:51 PM
blah blah hussein blah blah

Feel free to quote a post of someone defending Wright's comments. I know I didn't defend them and I don't remember seeing a post of anyone else doing so. But the fact you're deflecting from the fact McCain has a similar hate-filled go-to spiritual man says plenty.

Truthfully, I did. I was fed up reading all the self-righteous bullshit from posters who have no idea what it is like living as a black individual in this country. I am guilty

Here is the quote of my post.

Why should he, you would have to be blind not to have seen what the reverend is basing his statements on. Sure he is engaging in hyperbole to stir the passions of his congregation. But he did not say a single thing to encourage unlawful behavior. It is not against the law to hate the oppression that is still common for many Americans. There also is some truth in his statement about the US's actions over the last 40 years in the Middle East and Africa.

I find the indignation of people on this BB amusing.:rolleyes:

Count Zarth
03-13-2008, 10:52 PM
I was fed up reading all the self-righteous bullshit from posters who have no idea what it is like living as a black individual in this country.

LOL this is sig worthy. Along with a photoshop of Jim as a black man.

SBK
03-13-2008, 11:00 PM
LOL this is sig worthy. Along with a photoshop of Jim as a black man.

No kidding. I didn't realize he knew what it was to be black. He must be a balla.

|Zach|
03-13-2008, 11:01 PM
A Guster reference has made this the best thread sitting in DC right now.

Logical
03-13-2008, 11:20 PM
No kidding. I didn't realize he knew what it was to be black. He must be a balla.

I am observant enough to know that Wright's perspective makes sense in the wider perspective of the black experience in this country since the 50s on (his time frame), sure he engaged in intentional hyperbole to inspire his congregation and get them fired up, Lord knows white men have never done this to get fired up against the Krauts and the Nips.

SBK
03-13-2008, 11:53 PM
I am observant enough to know that Wright's perspective makes sense in the wider perspective of the black experience in this country since the 50s on (his time frame), sure he engaged in intentional hyperbole to inspire his congregation and get them fired up, Lord knows white men have never done this to get fired up against the Krauts and the Nips.

Racism is racism. If this clown was a white guy saying what he said he'd have already been strung up by his balls. It doesn't matter his experience, or how warped his perspective is. He's a racist bigot passing off hatemongering tripe as "preaching."

His sermons about Jesus being a black man in a rich white man's world, and Hillary never being called a "n-word" have nothing in common with the bible he claims to preach from.

The guy has the right to say whatever he wants, I really don't care. I can't believe people try to pass it off as ok or as normal simply because he's a black guy---or worse yet, because Obama is affiliated with him.

Logical
03-14-2008, 12:45 AM
Racism is racism. If this clown was a white guy saying what he said he'd have already been strung up by his balls. It doesn't matter his experience, or how warped his perspective is. He's a racist bigot passing off hatemongering tripe as "preaching."

His sermons about Jesus being a black man in a rich white man's world, and Hillary never being called a "n-word" have nothing in common with the bible he claims to preach from.

The guy has the right to say whatever he wants, I really don't care. I can't believe people try to pass it off as ok or as normal simply because he's a black guy---or worse yet, because Obama is affiliated with him.

Or in some cases we just object to the taken out of perspective and the warped view of the reactionaries and worse yet the RWNJs in radio who want to crucify him when he did not advocate violence or any acts of sedition. He merely uses a few strong words to build an image of the black human perspective of the yoke of oppression that is still present.

SBK
03-14-2008, 12:54 AM
Or in some cases we just object to the taken out of perspective and the warped view of the reactionaries and worse yet the RWNJs in radio who want to crucify him when he did not advocate violence or any acts of sedition. He merely uses a few strong words to build an image of the black human perspective of the yoke of oppression that is still present.

Fred Phelps doesn't advocate violence, does that make him okay? Probably not, because Phelps doesn't know what it's like to live in the USKKKA as a black man?

Logical
03-14-2008, 01:03 AM
Fred Phelps doesn't advocate violence, does that make him okay? Probably not, because Phelps doesn't know what it's like to live in the USKKKA as a black man?Actually Phelps advocates unlawful acts so I disagree. Now whether Phelps actually advocates violence (I am not sure), certainly his predisposition towards illegal acts set him apart from Wright

Joe Seahawk
03-14-2008, 01:19 AM
Actually Phelps advocates unlawful acts so I disagree. Now whether Phelps actually advocates violence (I am not sure), certainly his predisposition towards illegal acts set him apart from Wright

Phelps and wright are both absolute moronic idiots.. Right?

Only one of them is an "inspiration " to Barack Obama..

SBK
03-14-2008, 01:26 AM
Phelps and wright are both absolute moronic idiots.. Right?

Only one of them is an "inspiration " to Barack Obama..

No, Wright is an inspiration to us all, a modern day saint who's goodness knows no bounds.

jettio
03-14-2008, 04:44 AM
Actually, no, I'm not going to vote for McCain. How can you not see a difference between an advisor you speak to occasionally and the pastor/church you've attended for 20 years?

I'm guessing you don't ever go to church and don't understand how the pastor/congregation thing works?


It is hard to believe that you go to church.

You act like you have been to Obama's church just because you see a few selected clips that were chosen from among the many years that the Reverend spent in the church.

If you do go to church and are a believer you would know better than to be judgmental, especially when you do not know what God has done through the man to reach and help the people with whom he fellowships.

If you do go to church, I think it is safe to say that you have missed the message and do not understand God or man.

a1na2
03-14-2008, 05:09 AM
Actually Phelps advocates unlawful acts so I disagree. Now whether Phelps actually advocates violence (I am not sure), certainly his predisposition towards illegal acts set him apart from Wright

At the current time Phelps, or his daughters/followers, are looking for some kind of violence against them to justify their actions. My opinion is that they are trying to show themselves as innocent victims.

vailpass
03-14-2008, 08:46 AM
It is hard to believe that you go to church. Because otherwise you would not call someone out for bigoted hatemongering.

You act like you have been to Obama's church just because you see a few selected clips that were chosen from among the many years that the Reverend spent in the church. Because if you are only a racist ignorant hatemonger part of the time that is perfectly acceptable.

If you do go to church and are a believer you would know better than to be judgmental, especially when you do not know what God has done through the man to reach and help the people with whom he fellowships. Because in order to be a true believer you must believe this "preacher" is infallible, and should in no way be held accountable for his ignorant, hateful sermons.

If you do go to church, I think it is safe to say that you have missed the message and do not understand God or man.
Because understanding man and God are two of the simplest, most common human accomplishments possible. EVERYONE fully understands God and man. You must be and idiot..

obama the great uniter

Logical
03-14-2008, 08:54 AM
Phelps and wright are both absolute moronic idiots.. Right?

Only one of them is an "inspiration " to Barack Obama..
Given his perspective, I doubt you could call Wright moronic, he is definitely an advocate for his people and he engages in extreme hyperbole to stir their passions. That does not make him a moron. Phelps on the other hand tries to inspire his followers to unlawful even violent acts so yes he is a moron.

patteeu
03-14-2008, 09:00 AM
If this guy would have railed against America instead of Islam, he would have been OK with the Obama posse.

I agree with what Cochise said. And I also agree with SBK and others who note that this guy isn't nearly as close to McCain as Wright is to Obama.

Obama can't disavow Wright. They are inextricably bonded.

Of all the churches in (racist) America, when Obama decided he wanted to be Christian (possibly because it helps to be Christian when you aspire to political office), he chose to join Wright's church.
Obama has used his connection to Wright for 20 years to launch and advance his political career.
Obama wrote a book based on one of Wright's sermons.
Obama takes his whole family including his kids to listen to Wright's sermons
Obama has had 20 years of close association with Wright in which to observe and disavow if necessary. He has chosen not to do so.

Wright might be like family to Obama, but he's more like a spouse than an uncle. You don't get to choose your uncles.

Ultra Peanut
03-14-2008, 09:31 AM
I wonder how many active conflicts there are in the world right now, and how many involve Islam on at least one side? Up to one-third of the world's population is Muslim, sooooooo

vailpass
03-14-2008, 09:35 AM
Up to one-third of the world's population is Muslim, sooooooo

So if up to one third of the world's population were Tibetan Monks it wouldn't be any different?

Ultra Peanut
03-14-2008, 09:36 AM
So if up to one third of the world's population were Tibetan Monks?Probably be a bit less eventful, ah reckon.

Dallas Chief
03-14-2008, 09:38 AM
blah blah hussein blah blah

Feel free to quote a post of someone defending Wright's comments. I know I didn't defend them and I don't remember seeing a post of anyone else doing so. But the fact you're deflecting from the fact McCain has a similar hate-filled go-to spiritual man says plenty.
Hell man! Don't look now, but people are defending Wright in this thread. You obviously missed my point. You didn't see any of the critics of Wright defending the McCain guy over here- probably because they think he is a wackjob/extremist/idiot. Are you put out because there not jumping on your bandwagon of calling this POS out? Why would they? BTW- i don't know what happened to my original post. I tried to edit it to include some more inflammatory remarks, but i guess it wasn't meant to be...

Cochise
03-14-2008, 09:42 AM
[list] Of all the churches in (racist) America, when Obama decided he wanted to be Christian (possibly because it helps to be Christian when you aspire to political office), he chose to join Wright's church.
Obama has used his connection to Wright for 20 years to launch and advance his political career.

I agree with the BO supporters that probably he's not all that close to Wright, for these reasons. There probably isn't anything more to this than that.

Cochise
03-14-2008, 09:42 AM
So if up to one third of the world's population were Tibetan Monks it wouldn't be any different?

Think of all those active military conflicts in the world that the Tibetan Monks are involved in.

Bowser
03-14-2008, 09:56 AM
Think of all those active military conflicts in the world that the Tibetan Monks are involved in.

One sided affairs, those....

BucEyedPea
03-14-2008, 09:58 AM
Buddhism is one religion that has shown the least amount of violence.

vailpass
03-14-2008, 09:59 AM
Think of all those active military conflicts in the world that the Tibetan Monks are involved in.

Yeah those violent bastards, always threatening to behead people that don't believe in their religion. I am SO sick of those Tibetan calls to jihad. :)

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 10:14 AM
Definitely no surprise there's been zero outrage about McCain's spiritual advisor from the same people going on and on in the other topic. Instead they seem intent on rationalizing and then changing the subject.

This thread needs to be time-capsuled simply for the gall of the double standard(that's ultimately prevalent on both sides).

Cochise
03-14-2008, 10:26 AM
Definitely no surprise there's been zero outrage about McCain's spiritual advisor from the same people going on and on in the other topic. Instead they seem intent on rationalizing and then changing the subject.


Whatever. I know that liberals must see outrage or they see agreement but I don't often 'do' outrage. I posted basically that Wright was an idiot, and that I didn't agree with this guy past a very general point. Disagreement in both cases.

But no matter what was said in the thread, you were going to make this post. So, congratulations... high five yourself I guess.

patteeu
03-14-2008, 10:31 AM
I agree with the BO supporters that probably he's not all that close to Wright, for these reasons. There probably isn't anything more to this than that.

I'm not sure why you think he's not all that close to Wright. He describes him as family. I don't think Obama is a racist, but then I don't think Wright is either (although the latter clearly sees the world through a race-based prism). But they both embrace a pretty radical ideology in pursuit of what they'd consider social justice. I do think you're right if you're suggesting that there might be a bit of cynicism involved in their relationship though (I missed that in my first reading of your post).

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 10:35 AM
But no matter what was said in the thread, you were going to make this post. So, congratulations... high five yourself I guess.

There would've been no reason to if people who will remain unnamed weren't downplaying and trying to rationalize pieces of Parsley's radical beliefs while trying to change the subject to Obama.

It'd be impossible to read this thread and the other and not see the stark difference.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 10:46 AM
McCain is NOT campaigning on a phony platform of hope, change, and unity. He's not trying to sell anyone a bill of goods like the Savior is.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 10:52 AM
McCain is NOT campaigning on a phony platform of hope, change, and unity. He's not trying to sell anyone a bill of goods like the Savior is.

I'll take Red Herrings for 1000, Alex.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 10:58 AM
I'll take Red Herrings for 1000, Alex.

Everyone outside of the RW knows McCain is a NJ. Of course he'd be supported by like minds...

but Obamessiah almost had everyone convinced he was so normal, so moderate, so pure. That is the difference here. And that is why it's not news for McCain and will be for HIM.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 11:05 AM
Everyone outside of the RW knows McCain is a NJ. Of course he'd be supported by like minds...

Uh, McCain's appeal is to those who aren't nutjobs.

but Obamessiah almost had everyone convinced he was so normal, so moderate, so pure. That is the difference here. And that is why it's not news for McCain and will be for HIM.

Ignoring the fact that none of this has anything to do with what Obama believes, you seem to want to have it both ways. If you want to believe Obama is some radical leftist then you should be warming up to him.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 11:26 AM
Uh, McCain's appeal is to those who aren't nutjobs.



Ignoring the fact that none of this has anything to do with what Obama believes, you seem to want to have it both ways. If you want to believe Obama is some radical leftist then you should be warming up to him.

If he was honest about being a radical leftist then I might consider him genuine and authentic. But he's a blank screen and for a REASON. He is whatever he thinks you want him to be.


He's a chameleon. And he's a fraud.

beer bacon
03-14-2008, 11:28 AM
If he was honest about being a radical leftist then I might consider him genuine and authentic. But he's a blank screen and for a REASON. He is whatever he thinks you want him to be.


He's a chameleon. And he's a fraud.

Why did you support John Edwards again? He is much more like the type of politician you are describing than either Obama or Clinton.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 11:30 AM
Why did you support John Edwards again? He is much more like the type of politician you are describing than either Obama or Clinton.

He's not in the race any longer and this is a nice diversion but completely irrelevant to Obama, Clinton, or McCain.

beer bacon
03-14-2008, 11:31 AM
He's not in the race any longer and this is a nice diversion but completely irrelevant to Obama, Clinton, or McCain.

Why did you support Edwards? His actual voting record was much different than the policy stances he took in the primaries. Much more so than Clinton or Obama.

Cochise
03-14-2008, 11:41 AM
I'm not sure why you think he's not all that close to Wright.

No particular reason. Just my feeling that like it is for most politicians, a religious affiliation is probably just a convenience.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 11:42 AM
Why did you support Edwards? His actual voting record was much different than the policy stances he took in the primaries. Much more so than Clinton or Obama.

When and if Edwards gets back into the race then this angle will be relevant. Until then, it's a diversion from Baaarack. I understand why you want to do it but I'm not going to play along.

patteeu
03-14-2008, 11:43 AM
No particular reason. Just my feeling that like it is for most politicians, a religious affiliation is probably just a convenience.

Yeah, I don't disagree with you there. I missed that when I read your post the first time.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 11:44 AM
Why did you support Edwards? His actual voting record was much different than the policy stances he took in the primaries. Much more so than Clinton or Obama.

That's why Meme liked him so much. He reminded her of herself. Fake, unprincipled, and politically opportunistic.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 11:46 AM
When and if Edwards gets back into the race then this angle will be relevant. Until then, it's a diversion from Baaarack. I understand why you want to do it but I'm not going to play along.

You had no problem helping to divert this topic that had nothing to do with Obama to Obama.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 11:46 AM
No particular reason. Just my feeling that like it is for most politicians, a religious affiliation is probably just a convenience.

I don't think so. He has called Wright his mentor and reportedly, a father figure. I'm trying to find that quote. He made a dedication of his book to him.

I have a hard time believing that those actions are of one who is set on using his pastor for political reasons. I agree with Juan Williams. Wright validated Obama's blackness at a time when he had no father or family around to do so. Thus, Wright was a big inspiration and source of direction for Obamessiah.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 11:49 AM
You had no problem helping to divert this topic that had nothing to do with Obama to Obama.

Actually, you need to credit yourself for that one.


Yesterday, 07:24 PM
#5
HolmeZz
i guess its bittersweet poetry

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NeW HaVeN, CT

Yeah, I'm not expecting to see the same outrage from the same people.

beer bacon
03-14-2008, 11:51 AM
When and if Edwards gets back into the race then this angle will be relevant. Until then, it's a diversion from Baaarack. I understand why you want to do it but I'm not going to play along.

Your support of Edwards is relevant because he embodies much more than Obama many of the complaints you are making. You need to reconcile the contrary nature of your political views in relation to this democratic primary.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 11:52 AM
Actually, you need to credit yourself for that one.

That wasn't making it about Obama. I was looking for the same people in the other topic to make their way to this topic with their faux outrage. Most of them didn't make the trip.

patteeu
03-14-2008, 11:55 AM
I don't think so. He has called Wright his mentor and reportedly, a father figure. I'm trying to find that quote. He made a dedication of his book to him.

I have a hard time believing that those actions are of one who is set on using his pastor for political reasons. I agree with Juan Williams. Wright validated Obama's blackness at a time when he had no father or family around to do so. Thus, Wright was a big inspiration and source of direction for Obamessiah.

The truth is, either way it's damning for Obama. Whether he just used Wright to gain a political advantage or he embraces the senior pastor as a true mentor, it doesn't reflect well on Obama.

Duck Dog
03-14-2008, 11:59 AM
Let's see, what's worse during an election cycle? Someone who hates Islamists or someone who hates white America?

hmmm.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 12:00 PM
Let's see, what's worse during an election cycle? Someone who hates Islamists or someone who hates white America?

hmmm.

Cochise has been stripped of his Rationalization Award.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 12:03 PM
Your support of Edwards is relevant because he embodies much more than Obama many of the complaints you are making. You need to reconcile the contrary nature of your political views in relation to this democratic primary.

He is no longer a candidate and when he was I did not vote for him, I did not work for him, I did not send money to him. I did not even register for email updates from the campaign...

that is how much 'support' he was getting from me this go round. Last year at this time I was contemplating Obama because of his antiwar stance and then I educated myself about him and decided he was not the best candidate but damn near the bottom on my list. Right down there with Mike Gravel.

So there you have it. The one time I will address John Edwards with you because it's not relevant. I would have supported Edwards, Richardson, Dodd, Kucinich, Biden, Clinton, Vilsack over Obama.

Thus, Edwards is not an issue because it's not like I was choosing him over Obama. I chose EVERYONE over Obama. Well, except for Mike Gravel.

That should satisfy that diversion...somehow I doubt it will.

Cochise
03-14-2008, 12:08 PM
I don't think so. He has called Wright his mentor and reportedly, a father figure. I'm trying to find that quote. He made a dedication of his book to him.

It could just be fluffing like politicians do. I don't take it as a blanket endorsement

I know that a lot of people don't have a hard time nailing someone to a cross for that, like they did when Trent Lott said Strom would have made a good president at his 150th birthday party. I mean, what's he going to do, get up there and call a 100 year old man an ahole at his birthday party? I'm sure BO isn't going to call his crackhead spiritual advisor a wingnut in public either.

The book dedication is more solid, but these people's books are usually ghostwritten anyway. It sounds to me like BO's probably just being a politician, speaking in empty and duplicitous ways.


I have a hard time believing that those actions are of one who is set on using his pastor for political reasons. I agree with Juan Williams. Wright validated Obama's blackness at a time when he had no father or family around to do so. Thus, Wright was a big inspiration and source of direction for Obamessiah.

That might be why he took up religion to begin with, I don't know. Maybe it was to connect with religious minorities and give him power base in Chicago to run from. Maybe they saw this guy who was a bigshot lawyer who grew up in some other country who wasn't much like them and didn't know if he was down for the struggle.

I don't know what his motivation is. With politicians I just assume it's like Bill and Hillary calling themselves Southern Baptists. Means little and does less.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 12:09 PM
Let's see, what's worse during an election cycle? Someone who hates Islamists or someone who hates white America?

hmmm.

Trick question. What is the answer? :D

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 12:23 PM
So there you have it. The one time I will address John Edwards with you because it's not relevant. I would have supported Edwards, Richardson, Dodd, Kucinich, Biden, Clinton, Vilsack over Obama.

Thus, Edwards is not an issue because it's not like I was choosing him over Obama. I chose EVERYONE over Obama. Well, except for Mike Gravel.

That should satisfy that diversion...somehow I doubt it will.

Nope.

I'm dreaming of an Edwards/Obama ticket but I think Obama is too big for his britches to agree to this. And I don't think he can win. I think Edwards can.

Since he[Obama] is the one true anti-war candidate (besides Kucinich) and he's more liberal than Hillary or Edwards then he'll get my vote. I'm just not sure he can win and that is why I'm not throwing my support behind him 100%. I think he would have been better to wait. But he diminishes Hillary's odds so that is a major plus.

For me, it's Gore or Obama with the edge going to Gore but since he's not running it's Obama by defaut.

Forget 007, Obama's campaign buttons should read: O08. :)

the fact that Obama DID NOT BELIEVE DUHbya makes me want to vote for him. Same with Gore.

FTR, I think it will be a problem for Obama in that he has led a life more classically associated with a white man than a black man in this country.

(100%) 1: Sen. Barack Obama (D) Information
(83%) 2: Sen. John Kerry (D) Information
(82%) 3: Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D) Information
(79%) 4: Ex-VP Al Gore (D) Information
(75%) 5: Retired Gen. Wesley Clark (D) Information
(70%) 6: Gov. Bill Richardson (D) Information
(67%) 7: Ex-Sen. John Edwards (D) Information
(65%) 8: Sen. Christopher Dodd (D) Information
(61%) 9: Gov. Tom Vilsack (D) Information
(61%) 10: Sen. Hillary Clinton (D) Information
(59%) 11: Rep. Ron Paul (R) Information
(58%) 12: Sen. Joseph Biden (D) Information
(53%) 13: Gov. George Pataki (R) Information
(52%) 14: Gov. Mitt Romney (R) Information
(50%) 15: Ex-Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) Information
(36%) 16: Sec. Condoleezza Rice (R) Information
(35%) 17: Sen. Chuck Hagel (R) Information
(32%) 18: Sen. John McCain (R) Information
(30%) 19: Ex-Rep. Newt Gingrich (R) Information
(26%) 20: Sen. George Allen (R) Information
(22%) 21: Gov. Mike Huckabee (R) Information
(16%) 22: Rep. Duncan Hunter (R) Information
(14%) 23: Sen. Sam Brownback (R) Information
(7%) 24: Rep. Tom Tancredo (R) Information
(0%) 25: Sen. Russ Feingold (D) Withdrew from race.


So, any Dems on the Evan Bayh/Obama or Joe Biden/Bayh bandwagon?

John Edwards with Barak Obama as VP. Or the other way around...

:clap:

beer bacon
03-14-2008, 12:24 PM
Nope.

Ouch.

Sully
03-14-2008, 12:26 PM
Trick question. What is the answer? :D

First, you are going to have to find someone who hates white America.

Mr. Kotter
03-14-2008, 12:31 PM
Nope.

ROFL

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 12:42 PM
Nope.

Thank you for confirming that I did seriously consider him at one time. However, as I said, the more I got to know about him the less interested I became. He almost had me convinced his antiwar view made him POTUS worthy then I realized how ridiculous that idea was...

I noticed you did not post quotes from me lamenting the candidates we had to chose from or how Gore was really the one candidate I would support without reservation?

SBK
03-14-2008, 12:54 PM
It is hard to believe that you go to church.

You act like you have been to Obama's church just because you see a few selected clips that were chosen from among the many years that the Reverend spent in the church.

If you do go to church and are a believer you would know better than to be judgmental, especially when you do not know what God has done through the man to reach and help the people with whom he fellowships.

If you do go to church, I think it is safe to say that you have missed the message and do not understand God or man.

I wouldn't step into Obama's church the same way I wouldn't step into Fred Phelps church either.

Knowing how far God has gone in order to save man it makes me sick to see someone twist what was done to use it to divide. Using a phrase like "God damn America" is absolute craziness. Saying that Jesus was a black man that lived in a rich white man controlled world is insane. Jesus was a Jew, and he lived in a world that didn't accept him for who he was.

God created all men equal, and we've been designed different on purpose. None of us have less worth, value, or ability based upon how we look. None of us are limited by our creator, and none of us can't fulfill God's purpose in our lives because of our skin color.

Unfortunately for this racist bigot in Chicago, he's turned away from the gospel and spun his own version of Christianity. Same with Fred Phelps. Twisted the bible into something it isn't for his own ego and twisted desire.

Duck Dog
03-14-2008, 02:32 PM
First, you are going to have to find someone who hates white America.



http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/14/obamas-spiritual-adviser-questioned-us-role-in-spread-of-hiv-sept-11-attacks/

Bootlegged
03-14-2008, 02:50 PM
The truth is, either way it's damning for Obama. Whether he just used Wright to gain a political advantage or he embraces the senior pastor as a true mentor, it doesn't reflect well on Obama.

They barely know each other.

jettio
03-14-2008, 03:04 PM
I wouldn't step into Obama's church the same way I wouldn't step into Fred Phelps church either.

Knowing how far God has gone in order to save man it makes me sick to see someone twist what was done to use it to divide. Using a phrase like "God damn America" is absolute craziness. Saying that Jesus was a black man that lived in a rich white man controlled world is insane. Jesus was a Jew, and he lived in a world that didn't accept him for who he was.

God created all men equal, and we've been designed different on purpose. None of us have less worth, value, or ability based upon how we look. None of us are limited by our creator, and none of us can't fulfill God's purpose in our lives because of our skin color.

Unfortunately for this racist bigot in Chicago, he's turned away from the gospel and spun his own version of Christianity. Same with Fred Phelps. Twisted the bible into something it isn't for his own ego and twisted desire.

So you exalt yourself and think that you can judge a man based on you seeing a few selectively edited clips of what he has said.

Not only are you declaring yourself able to judge someone else based on a snapshot of them, you want to stand in judgment of anyone associated with him.

You don't know the full picture, and you don't want to know it.

If you think you are exalted enough to judge others, perhaps you ought to consider that a good judge is someone that is fair and not someone that has prejudged the situation without knowing anything.

I doubt that I remember any of your posts before your getting hyper-enthusiastic about this thread, but I think it is a safe bet that you have not been wishing the Obama campaign well from the start.

What church do you belong to? You suggested that you know a lot about how churches work. What church has helped you get along so well that you can judge everyone else?

Jenson71
03-14-2008, 03:13 PM
HolmeZz is a devil with that new search feature. I now have to edit my previous posts everytime I click a new post.

patteeu
03-14-2008, 03:15 PM
I doubt that I remember any of your posts before your getting hyper-enthusiastic about this thread, but I think it is a safe bet that you have not been wishing the Obama campaign well from the start.

You may remember him as ShortBusKid

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 03:28 PM
Last call for condemnation of McCain's nutty spiritual buddy.

SBK
03-14-2008, 05:20 PM
So you exalt yourself and think that you can judge a man based on you seeing a few selectively edited clips of what he has said.

Not only are you declaring yourself able to judge someone else based on a snapshot of them, you want to stand in judgment of anyone associated with him.

You don't know the full picture, and you don't want to know it.

If you think you are exalted enough to judge others, perhaps you ought to consider that a good judge is someone that is fair and not someone that has prejudged the situation without knowing anything.

I doubt that I remember any of your posts before your getting hyper-enthusiastic about this thread, but I think it is a safe bet that you have not been wishing the Obama campaign well from the start.

What church do you belong to? You suggested that you know a lot about how churches work. What church has helped you get along so well that you can judge everyone else?

I'm not judging anyone here. I wouldn't attend a church that spews hateful bile, which is exactly what this is.

Mr. Laz
03-14-2008, 05:22 PM
I'm not judging anyone here. I wouldn't attend a church that spews hateful bile, which is exactly what this is.
does your church discuss politics,homosexuality or abortion?


there is alot of "bile" out there about various subjects.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 05:33 PM
I'm not judging anyone here. I wouldn't attend a church that spews hateful bile, which is exactly what this is.

Those Churches exist?

jettio
03-14-2008, 06:32 PM
I'm not judging anyone here. I wouldn't attend a church that spews hateful bile, which is exactly what this is.

Apparently you do not attend any church even though in one of your numerous posts in the thread you claimed to have some intimate understanding of pastor-congregant relationships.

You obviously hate democrats, seems that a prejudiced judge like you would be quite at home where hateful things are said.

jettio
03-14-2008, 06:39 PM
You may remember him as ShortBusKid

Ahhh.......The rehabilitated student of political incorrectness has become..........the teacher.

I still don't necessarily remember this guy's takes on anything, but a guy chooses a handle that makes fun of mentally disabled people and then goes absolutely apesh*t with enthusiasm because he can pretend to take such great offense to impolitic comments by a candidate's preacher.

Yup, makes sense.

Sully
03-14-2008, 08:08 PM
in one of your numerous posts in the thread you claimed to have some intimate understanding of pastor-congregant relationships.


That was me. You may be confused.

SBK
03-14-2008, 08:21 PM
does your church discuss politics,homosexuality or abortion?


there is alot of "bile" out there about various subjects.

We just discussed homesexuality a couple weeks ago. Many in the church (meaning Christians) have chosen to condemn people in Jesus name rather than love them in Jesus name. It's not our job to condemn people, it's our job to love them. It's unfortuante that so many think the way to reach people is to condemn them.

That doesn't make everything right either, the bible is very clear about that, but our job is to love, not to condemn.

Those Churches exist?

No. All Christians are racist, hate filled, inbred evil doers who will improve existence upon earth when they die.

Apparently you do not attend any church even though in one of your numerous posts in the thread you claimed to have some intimate understanding of pastor-congregant relationships.

You obviously hate democrats, seems that a prejudiced judge like you would be quite at home where hateful things are said.

I have said nothing of the sort of anything you just said. Can I put words into your mouth?

Jettio hates midgets and thinks that we should keep them for pets.

Wow, you're a jerk.

Ahhh.......The rehabilitated student of political incorrectness has become..........the teacher.

I still don't necessarily remember this guy's takes on anything, but a guy chooses a handle that makes fun of mentally disabled people and then goes absolutely apesh*t with enthusiasm because he can pretend to take such great offense to impolitic comments by a candidate's preacher.

Yup, makes sense.
I've explained this before, but I shall do it again for you. When I was in school I went to a different district than where I live and I rode a short bus to school. The real short kind, with a pickup truck front. I've been called shortbuskid for years and years. It's in no way intended as an insult.

Because people took it that way I changed my handle to SBK because I didn't want people to think I have a problem with handicapped kids. Heck, my neice is handicapped and I love her to death.

Feel free to choose who I am and act as though I'm some evil hatemongering jerk. I'm really nothing of the sort.

Then again, since I do not support Obama I guess I'm a racist narrow-minded fool. And since I don't like McCain I guess I hate old war vets and POW's.

Perhaps you should get to know me a little bit before you paint me to be such an evil person.....

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 11:03 PM
No. All Christians are racist, hate filled, inbred evil doers who will improve existence upon earth when they die.

I don't think anyone was making that case, but you are certainly free to do so.

I'm only astonished by the admittance of a double standard. The same people up in arms are the same ones who don't care the slightest when their candidates are actively seeking and embracing the endorsements of hate-spewing nutjobs.

SBK
03-14-2008, 11:08 PM
I don't think anyone was making that case, but you are certainly free to do so.

I'm only astonished by the admittance of a double standard. The same people up in arms are the same ones who don't care the slightest when their candidates are actively seeking and embracing the endorsements of hate-spewing nutjobs.

ROFL You have no idea how ironic your post is.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 11:10 PM
Ironic in the way that...

SBK
03-14-2008, 11:24 PM
Ironic in the way that...

I'm only astonished by the admittance of a double standard. The same people up in arms are the same ones who don't care the slightest when their candidates are actively seeking and embracing the endorsements of hate-spewing nutjobs.

This part.

Logical
03-14-2008, 11:53 PM
I guess it is just not news when McCain's spiritual adviser spews hate towards Islam and gays. Sure seem like McCain should have to be grilled and repudiate his spiritual advisers.

patteeu
03-15-2008, 07:51 AM
I've explained this before, but I shall do it again for you. When I was in school I went to a different district than where I live and I rode a short bus to school. The real short kind, with a pickup truck front. I've been called shortbuskid for years and years. It's in no way intended as an insult.

Because people took it that way I changed my handle to SBK because I didn't want people to think I have a problem with handicapped kids.

That's interesting. I must have missed your previous explanations. It's a shame that people are so PC sensitive that you have to change your handle to avoid being judged by people like jettio (who now ironically accuses you of being judgmental).

beer bacon
03-15-2008, 07:55 AM
I guess it is just not news when McCain's spiritual adviser spews hate towards Islam and gays. Sure seem like McCain should have to be grilled and repudiate his spiritual advisers.

A lot of the people that are getting the most upset by Wright's comments don't really mind anti-Muslim or anti-gay rhetoric. Many at least tacitly agree.

ChiefaRoo
03-15-2008, 08:00 AM
David Corn is a hack of the highest order. There is no comparison here.

By the way this isn't about Obama and McCain. This is about Obama and his view of America.

patteeu
03-15-2008, 08:17 AM
I guess it is just not news when McCain's spiritual adviser spews hate towards Islam and gays. Sure seem like McCain should have to be grilled and repudiate his spiritual advisers.

That's just the hyperbole of the thread title and the Mother Jones article, Ill-Logical. If you actually read the article, you realize that this guy is just another regionally influential preacher on the campaign trail. McCain called him "a spiritual guide", he didn't call him "[McCain's] spiritual guide". This guy is from Ohio, not Arizona or the Washington DC area. Does anyone think McCain flies to Ohio on weekends for church? This isn't even close to the same thing that is going on with Obama.

Baby Lee
03-15-2008, 08:35 AM
You obviously hate democrats, seems that a prejudiced judge like you would be quite at home where hateful things are said.
So criticizing hate is a hateful act in itself? jettio the prejudiced judge of prejudiced judgers.

beer bacon
03-15-2008, 08:56 AM
David Corn is a hack of the highest order. There is no comparison here.

By the way this isn't about Obama and McCain. This is about Obama and his view of America.

The double standard doesn't really stick. This is about blame by association, especially in regards to religious figures. All the candidates need to be held to the same standard.

jettio
03-15-2008, 08:59 AM
So criticizing hate is a hateful act in itself? jettio the prejudiced judge of prejudiced judgers.

I am not sure how you arrived at that. SBK's posts went beyond just criticizing the remarks.

The point I make is that this SBK guy can't pretend to know so much about this pastor and his church because he watched a couple of clips from a limited number of sermons.

It seems to me that in spite of the picture from the video clips, this church has a lot of members and that its focus is on helping people and that it does not engage in hateful or militant activities.

I say that the enthusiasm that SBK has shown and his posts in this thread give me the impression that he seizes an opportunity to cut Obama's legs off because he does not want to see Obama succeed. SBK seems to me to be a overzealous political opportunist than someone who attends a church himself and gets the message.

Obama is not quitting his church in spite of this harmful publicity, maybe it is because he knows more about the church and what it truly is.

beer bacon
03-15-2008, 09:01 AM
Obama isn't quitting the church because he is an angry, radical, black supremest, Christian, secret Muslim, jihadist that isn't really black.

jettio
03-15-2008, 09:34 AM
Obama isn't quitting the church because he is an angry, radical, black supremest, Christian, secret Muslim, jihadist that isn't really black.

Shame his white mama isn't around to help him deal with such confusion.

I think SBK, honestchieffan, and Hannity are going to really jump Obama's sh*t when they find out that Obama made his white mama attend their wedding at that church.

Since we have six weeks till Pennsylvnia, you can expect them to blame that church for her death from cancer.

SBK
03-15-2008, 11:18 PM
I am not sure how you arrived at that. SBK's posts went beyond just criticizing the remarks.

The point I make is that this SBK guy can't pretend to know so much about this pastor and his church because he watched a couple of clips from a limited number of sermons.

It seems to me that in spite of the picture from the video clips, this church has a lot of members and that its focus is on helping people and that it does not engage in hateful or militant activities.

I say that the enthusiasm that SBK has shown and his posts in this thread give me the impression that he seizes an opportunity to cut Obama's legs off because he does not want to see Obama succeed. SBK seems to me to be a overzealous political opportunist than someone who attends a church himself and gets the message.

Obama is not quitting his church in spite of this harmful publicity, maybe it is because he knows more about the church and what it truly is.

I get mad when people use God's message of love and twist it into a message of hate. My disdain isn't for Obama here, it's for his pastor.

This whole story has amazed me. It's been a real eye opener that the lefts hatred of pastors and religious leaders has nothing to do with their spiritual views, it has to do with their policital views. Not one person here could honestly say if any republican politician had a 20 year membership to a church that had a pastor saying these things they would react the same. There would be no defending the republican because he was black, or because the pastors views are not the politicians views. It's amazing.

You can call me whatever you want, I have a feeling that if you got to know me you'd see I'm nothing you've judged me to be.

I'm not a political opportunist. I'm amazed at hypocrisy and hate. And I'm amazed at how blinded people can be when they are defending their guy. It's really unbelievable.

And since you'll probably attack that statement, I do not have a guy in this election. I don't like any of the candidates, so I do not need to "tear down" Obama in order to build up my guy. There is no "my guy."

This is about all I have to say about this whole thing. It's obvious that liberals can accept hate speech so long as it's directed toward whites and conservatives.

And for the record, I go to church every week. I teach kids in a program called KIDMO. I love my church, and I love reaching out to my community. I know it goes against the box you've placed Christians into, but there's actually Christians who are good people, and want to see the lives of everyone improved. People that volunteer to build their community up, and invest into the lives of others. If I've done something to make you think of me otherwise I apologize, it was unintentional, or it was something I should not have done.

Carry on kids.

King_Chief_Fan
03-17-2008, 10:24 AM
I am not sure how you arrived at that. SBK's posts went beyond just criticizing the remarks.

The point I make is that this SBK guy can't pretend to know so much about this pastor and his church because he watched a couple of clips from a limited number of sermons.

It seems to me that in spite of the picture from the video clips, this church has a lot of members and that its focus is on helping people and that it does not engage in hateful or militant activities.

I say that the enthusiasm that SBK has shown and his posts in this thread give me the impression that he seizes an opportunity to cut Obama's legs off because he does not want to see Obama succeed. SBK seems to me to be a overzealous political opportunist than someone who attends a church himself and gets the message.

Obama is not quitting his church in spite of this harmful publicity, maybe it is because he knows more about the church and what it truly is.

I can tell more by what a person says than I can of a picture of people in a video as you suggested above. You in no way can determine the intent of those people.

elvomito
03-17-2008, 01:15 PM
I'm only astonished by the admittance of a double standard. The same people up in arms are the same ones who don't care the slightest when their candidates are actively seeking and embracing the endorsements of hate-spewing nutjobs.are you referring to content in this article? i saw no hate. and rod parsley doesn't seem to be a nutjob at all
edit: well, from some other websites it seems he could be a nut. however, i agree with the article

I get mad when people use God's message of love and twist it into a message of hate. My disdain isn't for Obama here, it's for his pastor.exactly. a christian and definately a pastor should love all people, including gays, muslims, and enemies. too bad there isn't a candidate like that. certainly not mccain

HolmeZz
03-17-2008, 01:58 PM
are you referring to content in this article? i saw no hate.

:spock:

"As I scan the world, I find that Islam is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed, and more devastation than nearly any other force on earth at this moment."

"Parsley claims that Islam is an "anti-Christ religion" predicated on "deception." The Muslim prophet Muhammad, he writes, "received revelations from demons and not from the true God." And he emphasizes this point: "Allah was a demon spirit." Parsley does not differentiate between violent Islamic extremists and other followers of the religion."

"He asserts that the religion "inspired" the 9/11 attacks. He bemoans the fact that in the years after 9/11, 34,000 Americans "have become Muslim" and that there are "some 1,209 mosques" in America. Islam, he declares, is a "faith that fully intends to conquer the world" through violence. The United States, he insists, "has historically understood herself as a bastion against Islam," but "history is crashing in upon us."

and rod parsley doesn't seem to be a nutjob at all

How is Reverend Wright a nutjob and Parsley not?

Why is it fine to spew hatred about muslims and homosexuals, but not about rich white men?

This is exemplifying the double-standard.

elvomito
03-17-2008, 03:41 PM
:spock:parsley wasn't preaching hate towards the muslim people, but rather that the religion itself is evil, which it is. the article didn't mention it, but i suppose the best way to combat islam would be missionaries and converting muslims to christianity, not using bombs. bombs don't work on demons :evil:


How is Reverend Wright a nutjob and Parsley not?

Why is it fine to spew hatred about muslims and homosexuals, but not about rich white men?

This is exemplifying the double-standard.i don't know that wright is a nutjob. he appears to be misled though. as a christian he should know that the battle is not against white people or anything physical, but ultimately against the devil, according to the Bible. shouldn't he be talkin to God about his problems, instead of venting/ranting during sermons? how does that help his congregation? this publicity surely hasn't helped the message of Christ any, has it?

christianity is against idolatry(islam, greed), homosexuality, hate, lies, murder, etc(although they're basically equal), but is all about forgiveness and love, which has been decreasing in our government/country for a while in my opinion.

obama will win big points if he comes out and says something along those lines(love/unity) and states that wright is definitely wrong. i predict he will

HolmeZz
03-17-2008, 03:49 PM
parsley wasn't preaching hate towards the muslim people, but rather that the religion itself is evil, which it is.

You said he wasn't preaching hatred at all.

are you referring to content in this article? i saw no hate.

Just because you agree with it doesn't make it any less hate-filled. If I come out and say Catholicism is a false religion founded on the desire to molest little boys, is that not hateful? Is that not offensive and disparaging to all those of the Catholic faith?

What's your excuse for Parsley's stance on homosexuality? Or is it ok because homosexuals are just evil?

elvomito
03-17-2008, 05:03 PM
You said he wasn't preaching hatred at all.
i saw no hate in there. he didn't say he wants muslims to die or suffer or anything like that. stating that islam is evil and allah is a demon is certainly offensive to muslims. hey, maybe i'm taking "hate" to mean something worse than you though

Just because you agree with it doesn't make it any less hate-filled. If I come out and say Catholicism is a false religion founded on the desire to molest little boys, is that not hateful? it wasn't hateful till you added the molestation bit. in fact, i'm not so sure that praying to dead saints is ok(i don't think that statement is hateful)
Is that not offensive and disparaging to all those of the Catholic faith? it is, but hate is much more than offense

What's your excuse for Parsley's stance on homosexuality? Or is it ok because homosexuals are just evil?
what exactly is his stance? i didn't see it written anywhere.


the only real difference might be that mccain's nutjobs aren't out in public spouting junk. no doubt he's got a few

HolmeZz
03-17-2008, 05:16 PM
i saw no hate in there...hey, maybe i'm taking "hate" to mean something worse than you though

If saying a religion is evil isn't 'hate' I don't know what you'd be looking for. Or the fact that he doesn't distinguish between regular practicing muslims and the islamic terrorists.

it wasn't hateful till you added the molestation bit.

Why is it hateful then?

what exactly is his stance? i didn't see it written anywhere.

That gays are perverted and destroying our country and society. The usual.

the only real difference might be that mccain's nutjobs aren't out in public spouting junk. no doubt he's got a few

You're kidding, right? A lot of what McCain's guys have said has come in the Church, just like Wright.

elvomito
03-17-2008, 06:25 PM
If saying a religion is evil isn't 'hate' I don't know what you'd be looking for.he'd probably tell you its fact according to the bible, but that Jesus still loves muslims too
Or the fact that he doesn't distinguish between regular practicing muslims and the islamic terrorists.they both believe in allah right?
Why is it hateful then?its based on a personal feeling, hate. it has no proof to back it up, real or perceived.
That gays are perverted and destroying our country and society. The usual.i don't think gays are destroying our country and society
You're kidding, right? A lot of what McCain's guys have said has come in the Church, just like Wright.got any videos i can look at? maybe somethin from hagee?