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dirk digler
03-14-2008, 03:01 PM
Also apparently he is going to be on Hannity's show tonight.


On My Faith and My Church (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html)

Posted March 14, 2008 | 04:28 PM (EST)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html

The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.
Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.
As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.
Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.
The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.
Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.
With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 03:05 PM
I have a difficult time believing he missed all of these sermons and yet he was a regular church goer? :spock:

It sure is convenient for him that he somehow knew the exact weeks to avoid going to church. ROFL

Bootlegged
03-14-2008, 03:06 PM
Also apparently he is going to be on Hannity's show tonight.


On My Faith and My Church (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html)

Posted March 14, 2008 | 04:28 PM (EST)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html

The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.
Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.
As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.
Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.
The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.
Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.
With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.


Translation; "I needed the black vote in Chicago, so I joined the radical black church"

Messier
03-14-2008, 03:07 PM
Wow. He knows exactly the right response to make. Man, he's good.

penguinz
03-14-2008, 03:07 PM
I have a difficult time believing he missed all of these sermons and yet he was a regular church goer? :spock:

It sure is convenient for him that he somehow knew the exact weeks to avoid going to church. ROFLYou are a joke.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 03:09 PM
I think it was a great response and along with his appearance tonight on Hannity and Colmes this should squash this story

RedDread
03-14-2008, 03:10 PM
Any church Obama goes to is better than Hillary's self worship.

Jenson71
03-14-2008, 03:17 PM
I'm very glad he both denounced and rejected.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 03:19 PM
I think it was a great response and along with his appearance tonight on Hannity and Colmes this should squash this story

It will be interesting. Listening to Hannity this afternoon he was pretty harsh on Obama. I don't know if he'll be that way to his face.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 03:22 PM
OOOPs, Obama neglected to mention this little bit...


Posted: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:28 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: 2008, Obama
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/14/770536.aspx

The Obama campaign says they have no plans to ask the Rev. Jeremiah Wright to step down from a campaign spiritual advisory committee. They're stressing that this committee -- the African American Religious Leadership Committee -- was a laundry list of people associated with the campaign and didn't really do anything. The group never actually met.

They say Wright has no formal role on the campaign (unlike some others on this committe who do have a formal role in faith-based outreach). They say he was included mostly out of respect to his long relationship with Obama.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 03:23 PM
You bolded the wrong part, memeinkampfI. That's hilarious.

patteeu
03-14-2008, 03:24 PM
No one can possibly believe this unless believing it means more to them than understanding the truth.

For goodness sake, he's known about it for a year (wink, wink) and he somehow rationalized staying in the church and keeping Wright on one of his advisory committees.

It appears that Obama has decided to go back to his "go to" move. Slinging empty rhetoric and hoping that his glassy eyed supporters will gobble it up without thinking about the implications of the words.

jettio
03-14-2008, 03:25 PM
I don't know, Obama might be able to deal with this if his audience is normal people, but we have a lot of people around here that hate religion, democrats and successful black folks period.

It is pretty funny seeing how enthusiastic some of those folks can get if they smell blood in the water of the guy that they are auomatically against from the start.

That does not apply to everybody that weighed in with concern, but there sure is a crowd of usual suspects ready to posse up.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 03:26 PM
Umm that committee never meets so what is the big deal. I have a feeling he has not been around the campaign for awhile

BucEyedPea
03-14-2008, 03:30 PM
I think it was a great response and along with his appearance tonight on Hannity and Colmes this should squash this story

I nearly typed that but it was only a hunch. It does say he's not much different than other politicians or any political group and he's tryin' to claim that. They all need votes. I wonder how black people will feel about this.

Cochise
03-14-2008, 03:31 PM
For goodness sake, he's known about it for a year (wink, wink) and he somehow rationalized staying in the church and keeping Wright on one of his advisory committees.

Yeah, I don't understand what a statement like this is supposed to fix. He allied with this clown and kept him as an advisor/on an advisory committee, and was buddy-buddy with him all these years - the guy even officiated their wedding - and only does he repudiate all that stuff after it's caused a controversy and begins to cost him politically. Up until now, it looks like he's got his arm around him and is dedicating books to him.

I mean, if he ever attended the church, does anyone think that he would have walked out when the preacher was on one of his rants like in the video clip? I don't see that. Maybe he would have refrained from clapping or shouting Amen like everyone else, but I don't see that happening either.

What I can't help but wonder is that if this church videotapes everything, if there won't be a video surfacing later of him nodding in approval or applauding at some incendiary comments. These church TV broadcasts often sweep the audience to show fans like sports broadcasts do. If he's being going there for 20 years (and actually attending), surely he's on a tape someplace.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 03:32 PM
No one can possibly believe this unless believing it means more to them than understanding the truth.

For goodness sake, he's known about it for a year (wink, wink) and he somehow rationalized staying in the church and keeping Wright on one of his advisory committees.

It appears that Obama has decided to go back to his "go to" move. Slinging empty rhetoric and hoping that his glassy eyed supporters will gobble it up without thinking about the implications of the words.

IMO nothing he says will please some of you guys so why does it matter.

What would be acceptable in your opinion for him to do pat?

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 03:33 PM
No one can possibly believe this unless believing it means more to them than understanding the truth.

For goodness sake, he's known about it for a year (wink, wink) and he somehow rationalized staying in the church and keeping Wright on one of his advisory committees.

It appears that Obama has decided to go back to his "go to" move. Slinging empty rhetoric and hoping that his glassy eyed supporters will gobble it up without thinking about the implications of the words.


Oh no, some believe it. Some will drink it up no matter what...

patteeu
03-14-2008, 03:34 PM
Umm that committee never meets so what is the big deal. I have a feeling he has not been around the campaign for awhile

It's not much of a denouncement if you're unwilling to even remove his name from a paper-only position, is it?

The extent to which you'll go to forgive and forget this picture window into Obama's soul is amazing. How incredible is it for Obama to claim that for 19 years, he was completely in the dark about his pastor's inflamatory rhetoric?

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 03:37 PM
What would have been acceptable to me would be for him not to have endorsed this guy's preaching for 20 years by being a proud member of his congregation.

I must've missed your outrage to McCain's embracing of Hagee and his cozying up to Parsley.

In fact, I'm pretty sure a lot of the candidates you've ever voted for have gone out of their way to embrace nuts with views just as stupid and controversial as Wright's.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 03:37 PM
What would have been acceptable to me would be for him not to have endorsed this guy's preaching for 20 years by being a proud member of his congregation.

He never endorsed it he just went to church and he probably wasn't there half the time. Have you heard the Audicity of Hope sermon? Maybe you should it is nothing like what you saw on the videos.

Donger
03-14-2008, 03:37 PM
So, it's okay to hang out with outright racists now, as long as you "condemn" what they say when they go on a rant?

Taco John
03-14-2008, 03:39 PM
As far as I understand, this isn't very far off of what is being preached in any church with a predominantly black congregation.

Messier
03-14-2008, 03:40 PM
Oh no, some believe it. Some will drink it up no matter what...

Just to clarify. What is the poison kool-aid that Obama is serving? What horrible plan for the country that spells doom for all does Obama have planed that only those smart enough not support him know about? I'm asking you because clearly your mind is stronger than those foolish enough to fall for his lies.

Donger
03-14-2008, 03:41 PM
Just to clarify. What is the poison kool-aid that Obama is serving? What horrible plan for the country that spells doom for all does Obama have planed that only those smart enough not support him know about? I'm asking you because clearly your mind is stronger than those foolish enough to fall for his lies.

Socialism.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 03:41 PM
So, it's okay to hang out with outright racists now, as long as you "condemn" what they say when they go on a rant?

You don't have a friend or family member who believes something stupid and controversial?

Cochise
03-14-2008, 03:41 PM
I must've missed your outrage to McCain's embracing of Hagee and his cozying up to Parsley.

I have described Hagee as a nut here many times. I have never been inconsistent about what I think about Hagee. And I care less than zero about your outrage scorecard

Who cares if we all stop in as required all the time and punch the clock to condemn someone that people think could be condemned? This is a free participation format. If I don't find a thread interesting I'm not obligated to post on it. If I don't find one particular part of a thread interesting I may well comment in that thread on something else.

Are we really to the point of pettiness here where everyone has to comment on everything and issue a position on every possible topic or else it's a tacit endorsement?

Good lord I can get more lofty banter at a daycare center

And further it doesn't even matter if I say specifically where I agree with someone and where I don't, unless I reject every part of everything someone says, like in the thread about McCain's spiritual advisor. He wrote that islam is the great enemy and that islam was the enemy... i wrote that I didn't think islam was the enemy but the radical practice of it, and went off on a tangent. But I won the 'rationalization award' for condoning this person somehow. Just blank out my quotes and call me a racist for not supporting him and save us all the keystrokes

Guru
03-14-2008, 03:42 PM
IMO nothing he says will please some of you guys so why does it matter.

What would be acceptable in your opinion for him to do pat?
He attended the church for 20 years. You can't just write that off with one statement. The man should be taken off his advisory committee as well. That would have made a stronger statement. i would like to see him not attend any more of his sermons as well. I know he is retiring and don't know if he is done yet or not. I only hope the next preacher is not as stupid as this one was.

Donger
03-14-2008, 03:42 PM
You don't have a friend or family member who believes something stupid and controversial?

Friend? No.

Family? Yes.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 03:43 PM
It's not much of a denouncement if you're unwilling to even remove his name from a paper-only position, is it?

The extent to which you'll go to forgive and forget this picture window into Obama's soul is amazing. How incredible is it for Obama to claim that for 19 years, he was completely in the dark about his pastor's inflamatory rhetoric?

Do you drop your friends when they make a mistake or do you expect your friends to drop you if you mess up? He is keeping him on only out of friendship.

Everyone wanted him to come out and denounce him and so he did very vehemently yet that isn't good enough.

patteeu
03-14-2008, 03:45 PM
IMO nothing he says will please some of you guys so why does it matter.

What would be acceptable in your opinion for him to do pat?

I don't think there's anything he can do to make me believe that he is opposed to the things this church has been preaching for the past 20 years (such as marxism and race-consciousness sugar-coated as Black Liberation Theology). I believed this before I ever heard his pastor speak, based only on his dedicated membership to the church over 20 years, the relationship of his pastor to one of his best-selling books, and the website of the church (which was conveniently changed, some might ironically call it a white wash job, after Obama became a candidate for POTUS).

But for people who aren't bothered by radical leftwing politics of social justice but who aren't really anti-American and who don't believe that the white man is victimizing them, I'd expect them to at least insist that he remove the pastor from his advisory committee and to insist that he sever his relationship with the church. Even going that far, I don't know how anyone can buy his claim to be a different kind of politician anymore. Obama's whole campaign thesis is undermined by this affair.

Messier
03-14-2008, 03:45 PM
Socialism.

Nope.

Donger
03-14-2008, 03:46 PM
Do you drop your friends when they make a mistake or do you expect your friends to drop you if you mess up? He is keeping him on only out of friendship.

Everyone wanted him to come out and denounce him and so he did very vehemently yet that isn't good enough.

A mistake? Sure. Did this preacher make a mistake or was he speaking his mind honestly?

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 03:48 PM
Friend? No.

Family? Yes.

You probably don't have enough friends.

But for the sake of argument, do you think those family members are rotten human beings? Are they worthy of demonization? Or are they genuinely good people with misguided views?

Guru
03-14-2008, 03:48 PM
Going on Hannity and Colmes is a mistake too as Hannity will not be kind. Rush would have been a better choice. I can assure you that Rush would at least treat him with respect on his show.

patteeu
03-14-2008, 03:49 PM
As far as I understand, this isn't very far off of what is being preached in any church with a predominantly black congregation.

If true, that's a problem. In a country that prides itself on freedom of religion, I don't know that there's anything to do about it other than attempt to shame it when it's exposed, but it's the same kind of problem (perhaps to a lesser degree) as an imam preaching an anti-western islamist message in a western mosque (or any mosque for that matter).

mikey23545
03-14-2008, 03:49 PM
If he'll just come out and denounce his wife now, he'll be all set....

Donger
03-14-2008, 03:49 PM
You probably don't have enough friends.

I have precisely the number of friends I wish to have.

But for the sake of argument, do you think those family members are rotten human beings? Are they worthy of demonization? Or are they really good people with misguided views?

Yes, one is horribly racist. I don't speak to him.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 03:50 PM
I don't think there's anything he can do to make me believe that he is opposed to the things this church has been preaching for the past 20 years (such as marxism and race-consciousness sugar-coated as Black Liberation Theology). I believed this before I ever heard his pastor speak, based only on his dedicated membership to the church over 20 years, the relationship of his pastor to one of his best-selling books, and the website of the church (which was conveniently changed, some might ironically call it a white wash job, after Obama became a candidate for POTUS).

But for people who aren't bothered by radical leftwing politics of social justice but who aren't really anti-American and who don't believe that the white man is victimizing them, I'd expect them to at least insist that he remove the pastor from his advisory committee and to insist that he sever his relationship with the church. Even going that far, I don't know how anyone can buy his claim to be a different kind of politician anymore. Obama's whole campaign thesis is undermined by this affair.

Fair enough and at least you're honest about it.

I would submit this to you has there been any evidence at all in the last 15 years that Obama has been in the public eye where he has said anything remotely like his pastor? If not then I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt because there is zero evidence that he thinks or feels this way.

Donger
03-14-2008, 03:50 PM
BTW, is this church tax-exempt?

beer bacon
03-14-2008, 03:52 PM
Going on Hannity and Colmes is a mistake too as Hannity will not be kind. Rush would have been a better choice. I can assure you that Rush would at least treat him with respect on his show.

Hannity being a jerk to him would just confirm that Hannity was just on a smear campaign/witch hunt.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 03:53 PM
A mistake? Sure. Did this preacher make a mistake or was he speaking his mind honestly?

I don't think it matters honestly. I have some crazy friends that do really stupid stuff and say stupid stuff and they are still my friends.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 03:54 PM
If true, that's a problem. In a country that prides itself on freedom of religion, I don't know that there's anything to do about it other than attempt to shame it when it's exposed, but it's the same kind of problem (perhaps to a lesser degree) as an imam preaching an anti-western islamist message in a western mosque (or any mosque for that matter).

Do you feel the same way about Bob Jones University?

Donger
03-14-2008, 03:54 PM
I don't think it matters honestly. I have some crazy friends that do really stupid stuff and say stupid stuff and they are still my friends.

Are you running to be the President of the United States of America? If you were, would you still associate with them?

patteeu
03-14-2008, 03:55 PM
Do you drop your friends when they make a mistake or do you expect your friends to drop you if you mess up? He is keeping him on only out of friendship.

Everyone wanted him to come out and denounce him and so he did very vehemently yet that isn't good enough.

I typically don't even denounce my friends (except the occasional discussion with my wife). If anyone wants to think less of me for that, that's up to them. If anyone finds a way to tie me to the dumb things a friend of mine might have said in the way Obama is tied to Jeremiah Wright, they'd be warranted in thinking less of me.

No, it's not good enough. Far from it. You denounce things that you learn about for the first time and disagree with, like McCain did with the talk show host that used the name "Hussein" three times in a McCain introduction recently, or like McCain did when he was informed of some of Rev. Hagee's negative statements about the Catholic Church. You don't wait 20 years and then denounce only when it becomes a politically damaging issue.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 03:55 PM
Are you running to be the President of the United States of America? If you were, would you still associate with them?

Yeah because I could care less and I am not a shallow disloyal person

Donger
03-14-2008, 03:55 PM
Even going that far, I don't know how anyone can buy his claim to be a different kind of politician anymore. Obama's whole campaign thesis is undermined by this affair.

You didn't hear the "hope" in the good Reverend's words, I take it?

HonestChieffan
03-14-2008, 03:57 PM
Social Justice? GODDAMN AMERICA? Hate messages about white people? My God in heaven. What sort of Christian is Obama? And what does this say about how he views all the rest of us?

Anyone who reads this, sees the sermons then hears Obama defend him as a man who preaches the gospel of Jesus...on which Obama bases his life? How can you actually swallow this? The man blames the government from the pulpit for the AIDS issue in this country!!!

Bad enough to be so shallow. Its worse to denigrate all real christian people by defending this hate monger and claim you dont agree...yet you allow your kids to be so exposed, your wife whos writing agrees with the hate, then you try to pawn yourself off as a victim.

Shame on you. Shame shame.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 03:57 PM
or like McCain did when he was informed of some of Rev. Hagee's negative statements about the Catholic Church. You don't wait 20 years and then denounce only when it becomes a politically damaging issue.

LMAO You think McCain wasn't aware of those statements before he accepted Hagee's endorsement? And you're accusing Obama of being naive?

Donger
03-14-2008, 03:59 PM
Yeah because I could care less and I am not a shallow disloyal person

While your loyalty is admirable, I would wonder what difference that makes if you associated with such a person to begin with.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 04:00 PM
I typically don't even denounce my friends (except the occasional discussion with my wife). If anyone wants to think less of me for that, that's up to them. If anyone finds a way to tie me to the dumb things a friend of mine might have said in the way Obama is tied to Jeremiah Wright, they'd be warranted in thinking less of me.

No, it's not good enough. Far from it. You denounce things that you learn about for the first time and disagree with, like McCain did with the talk show host that used the name "Hussein" three times in a McCain introduction recently, or like McCain did when he was informed of some of Rev. Hagee's negative statements about the Catholic Church. You don't wait 20 years and then denounce only when it becomes a politically damaging issue.

That is totally fair and I totally respect that because I wouldn't denounce my friends either. I could care less what any of them say honestly whether I agree with it or not. Hopefully tonight on H&C we will find out more than just what he put out in his statement.

Jenson71
03-14-2008, 04:00 PM
As far as I understand, this isn't very far off of what is being preached in any church with a predominantly black congregation.

The black church is a real community centered thing. It's about faith - but it's about more than just faith. The church is the only thing blacks could ever real have control of. For a long time, they didn't have a voice in any type of government. Local, state, federal - it was white controlled.

So naturally, the church is more than a sign of faith.

Now, it's not all like what Wright said. It's not that extreme. Wright was extreme. But social issues are presented.

Donger
03-14-2008, 04:01 PM
Is it also true that Wright was going to introduce Obama at his announcement that he was going to run for POTUS, but Obama chose not to let him speak?

patteeu
03-14-2008, 04:01 PM
Fair enough and at least you're honest about it.

I would submit this to you has there been any evidence at all in the last 15 years that Obama has been in the public eye where he has said anything remotely like his pastor? If not then I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt because there is zero evidence that he thinks or feels this way.

It's wrong to say that there is zero evidence that he feels this way. There's 20 years of evidence. The only alternative conclusion that I can think of (which may well be true) is that Obama cynically used that association with the church for his own political purposes even though he didn't buy into what was being preached.

In the scheme of things though, Obama's liberal politics are aligned pretty well with the radicalism of the church. It's only the most extreme fiery rhetoric with which there can still be a question.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 04:02 PM
While your loyalty is admirable, I would wonder what difference that makes if you associated with such a person to begin with.

So if I just disassociate myself from a life-long friend just because he says stupid shit and acts crazy?

I am not like that sorry. Loyalty is a big thing to me.

Guru
03-14-2008, 04:02 PM
Hannity being a jerk to him would just confirm that Hannity was just on a smear campaign/witch hunt.
Hannity takes everything to the extreme. He only knows one speed. When I have seen him with democratic candidates or republican candidates he doesn't agree with he goes all out on them. He figures he has Colmes to keep things balanced.

Rush will ask tough questions but does it in a respectful way. Hell, Rush had been defending Obama quite often this campaign season.

patteeu
03-14-2008, 04:02 PM
Do you feel the same way about Bob Jones University?

What do they preach?

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 04:03 PM
Is it also true that Wright was going to introduce Obama at his announcement that he was going to run for POTUS, but Obama chose not to let him speak?

Yep and to answer your other question yes that church is tax-exempt. IIRC because Obama gave a speech there a while back the IRS is looking into them.

Donger
03-14-2008, 04:04 PM
So if I just disassociate myself from a life-long friend just because he says stupid shit and acts crazy?

I am not like that sorry. Loyalty is a big thing to me.

I wouldn't have a life-long association with that person to begin with.

Donger
03-14-2008, 04:05 PM
Yep and to answer your other question yes that church is tax-exempt. IIRC because Obama gave a speech there a while back the IRS is looking into them.

Thanks.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 04:05 PM
What do they preach?

They are racists, anti-gay and anti-Catholic school.

Taco John
03-14-2008, 04:05 PM
If true, that's a problem. In a country that prides itself on freedom of religion, I don't know that there's anything to do about it other than attempt to shame it when it's exposed, but it's the same kind of problem (perhaps to a lesser degree) as an imam preaching an anti-western islamist message in a western mosque (or any mosque for that matter).


There's two things you can do:

1) Shame it when it's exposed... which will ultimately get nowhere

or

2) Consider it a symptom and ask what the source of this angst is.


Personally, I'm always in favor of looking at the root cause, rather than trying to beat down symptoms.

dirk digler
03-14-2008, 04:06 PM
I wouldn't have a life-long association with that person to begin with.

So you don't associate with any of your high school friends?

Donger
03-14-2008, 04:08 PM
So you don't associate with any of your high school friends?

One.

Donger
03-14-2008, 04:08 PM
Nice.

“When [Obama’s] enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit Colonel Gadaffi with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell,” Wright once said.

HolmeZz
03-14-2008, 04:08 PM
Obama is making all the rounds. He's doing Olbermann, Hannity, and Anderson Cooper.

HonestChieffan
03-14-2008, 04:08 PM
Help me understand exposing your children to such a man teaching such hate in the name of Jesus

This is so revealing of the character of this man and yet we still have defenders. What would it take for Obama to say or do that would bring you back to reality and see what a wolf in sheeps clothing he is?

patteeu
03-14-2008, 04:10 PM
You didn't hear the "hope" in the good Reverend's words, I take it?

Ha!

LMAO You think McCain wasn't aware of those statements before he accepted Hagee's endorsement? And you're accusing Obama of being naive?

I don't remember calling Obama naive, although maybe I did at one point. :shrug:

I know I've called many Obamaniacs naive. I actually think Obama is pretty shrewd. Or maybe I should say David Axelrod is pretty shrewd. Between the two of them they've built an impressive following out of the word "hope", a preacher's cadence, and an articulate and intelligent black man despite telltale signs of radicalism and duplicity.

Guru
03-14-2008, 04:14 PM
Obama is making all the rounds. He's doing Olbermann, Hannity, and Anderson Cooper.

Of course he is doing Olbermann and Cooper. They will softball him to death.

HonestChieffan
03-14-2008, 04:15 PM
Olberman will slober more than Colmes

patteeu
03-14-2008, 04:20 PM
They are racists, anti-gay and anti-Catholic school.

It depends on what those terms mean. If they oppose affirmative action, believe it's sinful to commit homosexual acts, and believe Catholic theology is in error, I don't have a problem with it. If they want to lynch black people, join Fred Phelps in his anti-gay campaigns, and firebomb Catholic churches then I denounce and repudiate them.

Otter
03-14-2008, 04:30 PM
I don't think it matters honestly. I have some crazy friends that do really stupid stuff and say stupid stuff and they are still my friends.

Are we holding the candidate to be leader of the free world to the same standards that we hold Bob from Monday Night Football wings & beer night?

Because I'm willing to bet Bob's views aren't going to influence the WORLD quiet as much as the President of the United States.

jAZ
03-14-2008, 04:52 PM
Well said...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/183597.php

From TPM Reader EM ...

What drives me crazy is how this could have been avoided so easily if Wright was the slightest bit media-savvy. Had he merely controlled his tongue and limited himself to advocating an attack on Iran to encourage massive worldwide Muslim attacks leading to a fulfillment of the biblical prophecy of end-times and bringing about Armageddon and the summary slaughter of every Jew, Muslim, Catholic, and non-believer on the planet while rapturing him and his flock up to heaven, then followed it up by denouncing Catholics as cult members and blaming Hurricane Katrina on gay people, this story wouldn't be metastasizing like this. One five minute milquetoast repudiation by Obama and it would all be behind him.

But what does Wright do instead? He spews this vile "God damn America" bile. What a psycho.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 05:08 PM
Obama is making all the rounds. He's doing Olbermann, Hannity, and Anderson Cooper.

Hannity will be too obnoxious to ask anything tough of Obamessiah. Cooper and Olbermann will wash HIS feet.

Mr. Laz
03-14-2008, 05:13 PM
I have a difficult time believing he missed all of these sermons and yet he was a regular church goer? :spock:

It sure is convenient for him that he somehow knew the exact weeks to avoid going to church. ROFL
nothing he says will make any difference to you and your GOP brethren.

i seriously hopes he doesn't waste his time trying to mollify your ilk.

SBK
03-14-2008, 05:16 PM
Well said...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/183597.php
From TPM Reader EM ...
What drives me crazy is how this could have been avoided so easily if Wright was the slightest bit media-savvy. Had he merely controlled his tongue and limited himself to advocating an attack on Iran to encourage massive worldwide Muslim attacks leading to a fulfillment of the biblical prophecy of end-times and bringing about Armageddon and the summary slaughter of every Jew, Muslim, Catholic, and non-believer on the planet while rapturing him and his flock up to heaven, then followed it up by denouncing Catholics as cult members and blaming Hurricane Katrina on gay people, this story wouldn't be metastasizing like this. One five minute milquetoast repudiation by Obama and it would all be behind him.

But what does Wright do instead? He spews this vile "God damn America" bile. What a psycho.

There you are, I knew you were still here. No word on this yet though....

Messier
03-14-2008, 05:19 PM
I don't post on here much and I'm confused is MemyselfI a republican? If not I don't get it.

Donger
03-14-2008, 05:22 PM
I don't post on here much and I'm confused is MemyselfI a republican? If not I don't get it.

No. But she hates black people and loves p*ssy.

Logical
03-14-2008, 05:30 PM
No. But she hates black people and loves p*ssy.

Let me just say that I know memyselfi (DEnise) from wayyyyyyy back and this is definitely not the case though I am sure it was said in jest.

DEnise tends to get a feeling about someone and then once that has occurred she either loves them or hates them. In Obama's case she has decided that he is fake and she must hate everything about his candidacy. Please note she really is not proactively supporting Hillary and definitely not John McCain.

Mr. Laz
03-14-2008, 05:38 PM
I don't post on here much and I'm confused is MemyselfI a republican? If not I don't get it.
no .... she is anything but a republican.

but she wants Hillary Clinton to win and therefore Obama is the enemy. So she has decided to do anything and everything she can to trash Obama even if that means she sides with her "enemy".

it's traditional "bad loser" mentality. If i can't get my way then i will destroy EVERYTHING.

it doesn't matter that Barrack Obama probably would be her second choice. It doesn't matter that her trash job will either get Hillary elected or McCain.

she's pouting,pissed and is gonna stomp and yell until she gets her way. If she doesn't get her way she will continue to stomp and yell about McCain getting elected even though she helped the process.

jAZ
03-14-2008, 05:42 PM
There you are, I knew you were still here. No word on this yet though....

How can I help?

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 05:56 PM
I don't post on here much and I'm confused is MemyselfI a republican? If not I don't get it.

Hell No. I'm as far away from a CON as you can get. I would normally hope to vote for someone who was along the same lines as Dennis Kuchinich or even as liberal as Obama claims he is/was. In actuality, Obama should be my dream candidate. He's soooo not.

I don't like Hillary or Obama. I think they both are deeply flawed candidates and human beings. The only reason I would lean Clinton is because she's not pretending to be anything other than the b*tch that she is. I can respect that. Obamessiah is trying to be all things to all people and as such I think he's phony.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 05:58 PM
no .... she is anything but a republican.

but she wants Hillary Clinton to win and therefore Obama is the enemy. So she has decided to do anything and everything she can to trash Obama even if that means she sides with her "enemy".

it's traditional "bad loser" mentality. If i can't get my way then i will destroy EVERYTHING.

it doesn't matter that Barrack Obama probably would be her second choice. It doesn't matter that her trash job will either get Hillary elected or McCain.

she's pouting,pissed and is gonna stomp and yell until she gets her way. If she doesn't get her way she will continue to stomp and yell about McCain getting elected even though she helped the process.

Barack is not my second choice. I will not vote for Obama, period. I will not vote for McCain either. I will write in Al Gore or leave the top slot unselected. If Obama wins the DEM nomination I will likely become an independent.

If Obama loses because of the lack of my one vote then he's an even bigger loser than I thought he was....

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 06:00 PM
He threw Wright under the bus...(per Keith, Wright is no longer on BO's campaign)


ROFL

Just when I said he would too. ROFL

Fruit Ninja
03-14-2008, 06:02 PM
Translation; "I needed the black vote in Chicago, so I joined the radical black church"

I am not political expert, but i am pretty sure he had the black vote in Chicago without having to join any kind of church or denomination.

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 06:13 PM
Oh, if there is a God there will be photos or video of Obamessiah in church during those sermons cuz he's denying he ever heard it. :grovel:

Mr. Laz
03-14-2008, 06:24 PM
Oh, if there is a God there will be photos or video of Obamessiah in church during those sermons cuz he's denying he ever heard it. :grovel:
if McCain gets elected you better just STFD and STfU because you earned it.

no complaining, no bitching, no pissing and moaning

your mentality RIGHT NOW is exactly the kind of thinking that got George W Bush elected.

8 years ago it was all the Ralph Nader moron's that decided to "teach the democratic party a lesson" and gave Bush the leg up he need to beat Al Gore.

now you are doing that same stupid ass, pouty bitch thing.

and please drop the nobel martyr bullshit ... it's crap.

Everyone knows that the political process is choose the best out of the bad options these days.

pouting .... writing in Gore .... not voting .... are all self-destructive

nobody likes but just grow up and deal with it.


now i think i'm down wasting my time on something you've already made up your mind about. :banghead:

memyselfI
03-14-2008, 06:29 PM
if McCain gets elected you better just STFD and STfU because he earned it.

:banghead:

Actually, as I've pointed out before, the analogy with DUHbya and Obama is exactly what I'm afraid of. Except that folks like me are not the cause. It's folks who settle for the person least qualified for the job because they 'like them' or are 'inspired' by them or are charmed by their 'charisma', blah, blah, blah.

I said WEEKS ago that the same dynamic is in play here. Same shit, different dude.

Sully
03-14-2008, 08:06 PM
I don't post on here much and I'm confused is MemyselfI a republican? If not I don't get it.

I haven't been around as long as most people here who love to bash her. Till recently, I thought she was unfairly railed on on a regular basis. I think what she's been doing in regards to this race is despicable. It's okay not to like Obama. I have no problem with that even if I disagree with her reasons. But sabotaging her party or her beliefs in order to make some grand point is pretty ridiculous.

All that said, while she says she is a Dem, in my experience, I'm beginning to lean to the opinion that she is nothing more than a contrarian. Happy to throw darts at the favorite in any matter, and play gotcha at any opportunity.

HonestChieffan
03-14-2008, 09:43 PM
Pretty clear watching Barak interviewed he is sweating bullets. The wine had to be flowing in Clinton Headquarters.

Guru
03-14-2008, 09:50 PM
Pretty clear watching Barak interviewed he is sweating bullets. The wine had to be flowing in Clinton Headquarters.

Getting ready to watch Hannity and Colmes right now.

Mr. Kotter
03-14-2008, 10:11 PM
Obama was in FULL damage control tonight....no doubt about it.

I like what he said; however, some will question his sincerity and veracity. If, upon due diligence, the press finds his "I sat in the pews, but honestly didn't hear a strong message similar to the one reflected in his radical and separatist diatribes..." to be believable, Obama will survive. :clap:

OTOH, if they find he sat and chose to IGNORE the radicalism which this pastor represents, he has handed Hillary the nomination. :shake:

Guru
03-14-2008, 10:19 PM
After watching the first 15 of H&C this preacher is coming off like a loon.

Guru
03-14-2008, 10:38 PM
Wow, I have never seen Obama so uncomfortable in an interview. Nice to know that he can stumble but still take the hard questions. I do feel he is dancing a lot in this interview though.

I thought it was going to be Hannity or Colmes interviewing him though.

Mr. Kotter
03-14-2008, 10:43 PM
I think it was a great response and along with his appearance tonight on Hannity and Colmes this should squash this story

We'll see what comes of journalistic due-diligence in the coming weeks. If nothing else arises, you will be right; if he's been less-than-forthright....he's done. Guess we will see.

Guru
03-14-2008, 10:55 PM
You know, Sean and Alan do sit awfully far apart at that desk. ROFL

Logical
03-14-2008, 11:55 PM
Wow, I have never seen Obama so uncomfortable in an interview. Nice to know that he can stumble but still take the hard questions. I do feel he is dancing a lot in this interview though.

I thought it was going to be Hannity or Colmes interviewing him though.

I think Fox actually made a smart move, Hannity had clearly become irrationale on the subject and Colmes lobbing softballs would not have been good.

Guru
03-15-2008, 12:01 AM
I think Fox actually made a smart move, Hannity had clearly become irrationale on the subject and Colmes lobbing softballs would not have been good.

Probably right. Hannity is calling for his resignation while Colmes keeps bring up McCains spiritual adviser. Neither one would make for a useful interview.

ClevelandBronco
03-15-2008, 03:31 AM
Okay, then. Thanks for the explanation, Sen. Obama.

Let's accept his explanation as genuine (the Sen. didn't know, and he'd never heard about what was being presented in his church). I'd like to hear an explanation of how the self-described "devout Christian" Sen. Obama could have missed what was going on.

BTW: There's a way (other than video) to track whether Sen. Obama was in attendance during any given sermon. He could release his checking account records. I'm sure that those records will help to show that the good Sen. hasn't witnessed any of the sermons that are at issue. He probably didn't put anything in the plate on the Sundays when his pastor was talking about all that stuff that Sen. Obama didn't know about.

For 20 years.

ClevelandBronco
03-15-2008, 03:34 AM
I wonder what Sen. Obama doesn't know about the federal government. Apparently he was clueless about his own pastor after "only" two decades experience.

I'm not sure I'd trust him to know jack shit about the federal government until he's spent at least three decades there.

Guru
03-15-2008, 04:18 AM
Watching O'Reiley now. These two women are just plain crazy. good grief.

mikey23545
03-15-2008, 04:41 AM
Obama addresses the controversy:

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain....."

Guru
03-15-2008, 05:10 AM
Obama addresses the controversy:

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain....."
Why, anybody can have a brain. That's a very mediocre commodity. Every pusillanimous creature that crawls on the Earth or slinks through slimy seas has a brain. Back where I come from, we have universities, seats of great learning, where men go to become great thinkers. And when they come out, they think deep thoughts and with no more brains than you have. But they have one thing you haven't got: a diploma.

beer bacon
03-15-2008, 05:54 AM
I wonder what Sen. Obama doesn't know about the federal government. Apparently he was clueless about his own pastor after "only" two decades experience.

I'm not sure I'd trust him to know jack shit about the federal government until he's spent at least three decades there.

Frankly, I am disgusted Obama didn't in 1992 know that Wright was going to make inflammatory statements in 2003 and 2006. We all know he has a time machine. Why didn't he use it?

jettio
03-15-2008, 06:23 AM
The overall impact of this on the Presidential race is that the wingtards that feared Obama because he had the look of a winner, will now hate Obama because they think they have found the ultimate weapon to use against him, and they will definitely start hating and railing against their fellow Americans if Obama continues to proceed towards the nomination and the Presidency.

Obama is fortunate that these videos came out during the first week of six weeks in between contests. I hope he deals with this properly and keeps going.

There is no doubt that when that happens the same people that are the most vehement jumping up and down right now about impolitic remarks about the United States will have plenty of bad things to say about the United States and their fellow Americans.

Funny thing about it, the same people that are jumping on these remarks by the Reverend, say as worse or hateful stuff about their country and their fellow Americans every day and there will be no end to it if Obama keeps winning. The same people will outdo Reverend Wright in badmouthing their country and its voters. You can see it already with the posters on chiefs planet.

If Obama makes it all of the way, or even earlier, has the expected wins and losses in the remaining primaries, you will see, on chiefs planet, the same people saying plenty of bad things about this country and their fellow citizens that don't vote the same way as them.

Obama will now have, like Bill Clinton before, a dedicated band of haters who will drive themseves absolutely crazy when they find out that most everybody else does not have the time to go out of their way and obsessively hate someone just because he has success.

Baby Lee
03-15-2008, 06:31 AM
I have a difficult time believing he missed all of these sermons and yet he was a regular church goer? :spock:

It sure is convenient for him that he somehow knew the exact weeks to avoid going to church. ROFL

Jesus effing Christ, he just said that the words said by a good friend angered, disgusted, and appalled him and that he rejected and denounced them. Does he have to publically behead the guy before you buy it?

Baby Lee
03-15-2008, 06:36 AM
Socialism.

To be fair, Mememe's fear is that the koolaid is the promise of socialism, while the dark truth underneath is that Obama's actually sane and not the wingtard she's prayed for.

HonestChieffan
03-15-2008, 06:59 AM
Jesus effing Christ, he just said that the words said by a good friend angered, disgusted, and appalled him and that he rejected and denounced them. Does he have to publically behead the guy before you buy it?


Nixon said "I am not a crook"....

beer bacon
03-15-2008, 07:02 AM
Nixon said "I am not a crook"....

John McCain, "Rod Parsley is my spiritual adviser."

Baby Lee
03-15-2008, 07:36 AM
Nixon said "I am not a crook"....

And that applies how?
Was there a crook demographic he risked alienating and costing him capital?

HonestChieffan
03-15-2008, 07:41 AM
And that applies how?
Was there a crook demographic he risked alienating and costing him capital?

So Baraks posture on this is that whatever I do, I cant alienate a particular demographic? Change? No, same old politics, same old BS, and same squeals of outrage when the light shines on the truth and the image falls away.

Baby Lee
03-15-2008, 07:52 AM
So Baraks posture on this is that whatever I do, I cant alienate a particular demographic? Change? No, same old politics, same old BS, and same squeals of outrage when the light shines on the truth and the image falls away.
Are you dense? It's just the opposite. He stated on a national stage that the words of a longtime friend and mentor angered and disgusted him. That's the polar opposite of not wanting to alienate his friend and every one of those in the congregation saying 'preach it!' and all those in the nation thinking the guy was speaking 'truth to power.'
If McCain were to publically say that your critique of Obama angered and disgusted him, he have your support?

HonestChieffan
03-15-2008, 08:31 AM
Are you dense? It's just the opposite. He stated on a national stage that the words of a longtime friend and mentor angered and disgusted him. That's the polar opposite of not wanting to alienate his friend and every one of those in the congregation saying 'preach it!' and all those in the nation thinking the guy was speaking 'truth to power.'
If McCain were to publically say that your critique of Obama angered and disgusted him, he have your support?

I respectfully disagree. What Obama has attempted to do is to have it both ways and he is not doing it very well. He wants to talk away from the words and now the powerfully offensive images the country has seen. But he wont actually denounce the man who uses a church and a bible to pervert the message he claims to deliver. He wants us to believe that this man he has known for 20 years, a family friend, influence somehow was able to keep his radical and clearly anti American views under wraps when around Obama.

Obamas appeal to voters was based on some very clear fundamentals. He claimed to be different and not a politician of the old order. That seems to not be the case at all. He offered people, particularly young people this idea of hope and building a picture of a future they would see as positive. Again, his words dont match with action. And the true costs, and as a result, the reality of those images of hope, are beginning to sink in...in other words Obama can spin and say the words but delivering on his claims will be impossible. He has based aan appeal on an anti war message at a time when the economy is a far bigger issue and at a time when even the liberal Pew Foundation is showing increasing voter appreciation for the progress and the incremental successes in Iraq. He wanted people to believe in his roots and his adherance to christian beliefs. He had to do that because like it or not, his name is an issue that he has to overcome...he admits that. To do so he proudly states he is a Christian man. But when you see the sort of Christianity he is a believer in, we come to understand its far from the mainstram Christian beliefs of Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, and others. And the anti Jew stands taken by his church push his beliefs and his honesty about his beliefs further and further.

He aspires to be Commander in Chief. Yet his own Church has railed against America and as a result they have railed against Americans. The very Americans who make it possible for the freedom to say the hatefull things said are not going to accept this man as the supreme commander, nor will the men in leadership who fought in every war since WW1.

Judgement is a huge part of the voters belief in the man or woman they vote for. Principaled ideas that are based on the things we feel are important are key.

What we see now is the Hope and Change message is a thin smoke screen for a man whos judgement is now severly questioned, whos values do not seem to be the values of Americans, and whos principals are not only unknown and untested, they may in fact be principals of hate and disrespect for this country.

Baby Lee
03-15-2008, 08:47 AM
But he wont actually denounce the man who uses a church and a bible to pervert the message he claims to deliver. He wants us to believe that this man he has known for 20 years, a family friend, influence somehow was able to keep his radical and clearly anti American views under wraps when around Obama.
1. He's denounced the words that were wrong. Does he have to declare the guy dead to him?
2. The guy's been preaching at an hour plus a week for twenty years, and the worst that's been unearthed is about 45 seconds, maybe a few more. I'm reminded of that Seinfeld episode about Jerry being an anti-dentite, where he was making a joke about dentists to his new GF and she lobbed of something about 'oh and the blacks and jews too.' I've had tons of times where someone I knew well and for a long time popped off with something appalling, something I never expected of them. It's not inconceivable that these newly unearthed remarks were an unpleasant surprise to Obama.

I'm not saying he definitely had no idea that the guy had such nutty views, but it's no logical 'proof' that he inexorably did.

patteeu
03-15-2008, 08:51 AM
I am not political expert, but i am pretty sure he had the black vote in Chicago without having to join any kind of church or denomination.

Why do you say that? He lost his first race in an overwhelmingly black, working-class, democrat neighborhood to this guy:

http://bioguide.congress.gov/bioguide/photo/R/R000515.jpg

Perhaps, not surprisingly, Bobby Rush, a former Black Panther, has grown fond of Obama and now supports his presidential candidacy.

patteeu
03-15-2008, 08:55 AM
I haven't been around as long as most people here who love to bash her. Till recently, I thought she was unfairly railed on on a regular basis. I think what she's been doing in regards to this race is despicable. It's okay not to like Obama. I have no problem with that even if I disagree with her reasons. But sabotaging her party or her beliefs in order to make some grand point is pretty ridiculous.

All that said, while she says she is a Dem, in my experience, I'm beginning to lean to the opinion that she is nothing more than a contrarian. Happy to throw darts at the favorite in any matter, and play gotcha at any opportunity.

Whatever happened to the Sully who used to denounce the "all about team" mentality? That didn't really take very long.

patteeu
03-15-2008, 09:01 AM
Okay, then. Thanks for the explanation, Sen. Obama.

Let's accept his explanation as genuine (the Sen. didn't know, and he'd never heard about what was being presented in his church). I'd like to hear an explanation of how the self-described "devout Christian" Sen. Obama could have missed what was going on.

BTW: There's a way (other than video) to track whether Sen. Obama was in attendance during any given sermon. He could release his checking account records. I'm sure that those records will help to show that the good Sen. hasn't witnessed any of the sermons that are at issue. He probably didn't put anything in the plate on the Sundays when his pastor was talking about all that stuff that Sen. Obama didn't know about.

For 20 years.

I wonder what Sen. Obama doesn't know about the federal government. Apparently he was clueless about his own pastor after "only" two decades experience.

I'm not sure I'd trust him to know jack shit about the federal government until he's spent at least three decades there.

LMAO

Preach it, brother. Obama's explanation can't possibly clear him. He's in a catch 22.

P.S. While we're examining his financial records, we should see if he bought one of the Church's DVDs containing the "Best of" collection of Wright sermons on which some of these rants appear. It's seriously hard to believe that Obama was totally oblivious to Wrights views if some of these rants were considered to be among his best.

jettio
03-15-2008, 09:05 AM
I respectfully disagree. What Obama has attempted to do is to have it both ways and he is not doing it very well. He wants to talk away from the words and now the powerfully offensive images the country has seen. But he wont actually denounce the man who uses a church and a bible to pervert the message he claims to deliver. He wants us to believe that this man he has known for 20 years, a family friend, influence somehow was able to keep his radical and clearly anti American views under wraps when around Obama.

Obamas appeal to voters was based on some very clear fundamentals. He claimed to be different and not a politician of the old order. That seems to not be the case at all. He offered people, particularly young people this idea of hope and building a picture of a future they would see as positive. Again, his words dont match with action. And the true costs, and as a result, the reality of those images of hope, are beginning to sink in...in other words Obama can spin and say the words but delivering on his claims will be impossible. He has based aan appeal on an anti war message at a time when the economy is a far bigger issue and at a time when even the liberal Pew Foundation is showing increasing voter appreciation for the progress and the incremental successes in Iraq. He wanted people to believe in his roots and his adherance to christian beliefs. He had to do that because like it or not, his name is an issue that he has to overcome...he admits that. To do so he proudly states he is a Christian man. But when you see the sort of Christianity he is a believer in, we come to understand its far from the mainstram Christian beliefs of Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, and others. And the anti Jew stands taken by his church push his beliefs and his honesty about his beliefs further and further.

He aspires to be Commander in Chief. Yet his own Church has railed against America and as a result they have railed against Americans. The very Americans who make it possible for the freedom to say the hatefull things said are not going to accept this man as the supreme commander, nor will the men in leadership who fought in every war since WW1.

Judgement is a huge part of the voters belief in the man or woman they vote for. Principaled ideas that are based on the things we feel are important are key.

What we see now is the Hope and Change message is a thin smoke screen for a man whos judgement is now severly questioned, whos values do not seem to be the values of Americans, and whos principals are not only unknown and untested, they may in fact be principals of hate and disrespect for this country.


If you want to be honest with yourself, you have been rooting against Obama from the start.

If Obama does not make it to the white house, this brouhaha may be the biggest factor.

However, if he does make it, you will eat your heart out, and that won't be just because of what you learned this week.

patteeu
03-15-2008, 09:05 AM
The overall impact of this on the Presidential race is that the wingtards that feared Obama because he had the look of a winner, will now hate Obama because they think they have found the ultimate weapon to use against him, and they will definitely start hating and railing against their fellow Americans if Obama continues to proceed towards the nomination and the Presidency.

Obama is fortunate that these videos came out during the first week of six weeks in between contests. I hope he deals with this properly and keeps going.

There is no doubt that when that happens the same people that are the most vehement jumping up and down right now about impolitic remarks about the United States will have plenty of bad things to say about the United States and their fellow Americans.

Funny thing about it, the same people that are jumping on these remarks by the Reverend, say as worse or hateful stuff about their country and their fellow Americans every day and there will be no end to it if Obama keeps winning. The same people will outdo Reverend Wright in badmouthing their country and its voters. You can see it already with the posters on chiefs planet.

If Obama makes it all of the way, or even earlier, has the expected wins and losses in the remaining primaries, you will see, on chiefs planet, the same people saying plenty of bad things about this country and their fellow citizens that don't vote the same way as them.

Obama will now have, like Bill Clinton before, a dedicated band of haters who will drive themseves absolutely crazy when they find out that most everybody else does not have the time to go out of their way and obsessively hate someone just because he has success.

And if that should come to pass, you'll be at the front of the line to slander the detractors with the "racist" charge.

Obama the uniter!

patteeu
03-15-2008, 09:06 AM
John McCain, "Rod Parsley is my spiritual adviser."

:BS: Link?

dirk digler
03-15-2008, 09:07 AM
We'll see what comes of journalistic due-diligence in the coming weeks. If nothing else arises, you will be right; if he's been less-than-forthright....he's done. Guess we will see.

I agree completely. IMO I think he threw down the challenge for anyone to see if he was there because he knows he wasn't. Of course I could be wrong on both accounts.

I would like to also make another point in that Obama has been in the public eye for 15 years and I encourage anyone to fine 1 instance or 1 sentence that even suggests that he thinks like Wright does. Until then you have to give him the benefit of the doubt because there is no evidence at all to even suggest that.

If such evidence does exist or he was proven to be in the church when Wright made those claims he will no longer have my support.

beer bacon
03-15-2008, 09:15 AM
:BS: Link?

Sorry, he referred to him as a spiritual guide, not adviser:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3548250.ece

I just typed in mccain rod parsley spiritual guide in google, and I got about a billion links. McCain called Parsley a spiritual guide at a rally in Ohio.

Sully
03-15-2008, 09:16 AM
Whatever happened to the Sully who used to denounce the "all about team" mentality? That didn't really take very long.

Huh?

HonestChieffan
03-15-2008, 09:30 AM
I agree completely. IMO I think he threw down the challenge for anyone to see if he was there because he knows he wasn't. Of course I could be wrong on both accounts.

I would like to also make another point in that Obama has been in the public eye for 15 years and I encourage anyone to fine 1 instance or 1 sentence that even suggests that he thinks like Wright does. Until then you have to give him the benefit of the doubt because there is no evidence at all to even suggest that.

If such evidence does exist or he was proven to be in the church when Wright made those claims he will no longer have my support.

would you go to a chuch for 20 years knowing that you disagree with the man preaching, ask him to officiate at your wedding, and baptize your children?

patteeu
03-15-2008, 09:41 AM
Huh?

This is the type of thing I was thinking about:

Please... :rolleyes:

At best, those of you twisting as hard as you can to defend Limbaugh would remain completely silent, if not outright crucifying the guy.
All it has become anymore is akin to rooting for a team, and defending that team no matter what they do wrong.

But I'll admit that after checking into it, you haven't been denouncing the "all about team" phenomenon to the extent that I was thinking , so maybe I have you confused with someone else or maybe this quote stuck in my mind because it was directed at me. Therefore, I retract my statement and apologize for the confusion.

patteeu
03-15-2008, 09:51 AM
Sorry, he referred to him as a spiritual guide, not adviser:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3548250.ece

I just typed in mccain rod parsley spiritual guide in google, and I got about a billion links. McCain called Parsley a spiritual guide at a rally in Ohio.

Not good enough. I'm looking for a link to that quote. McCain never called Parsley *his* spiritual guide. To compare the McCain-Parsley relationship to the Obama-Wright relationship is like comparing the Spitzer/kristen relationship to the Mitt/Ann Romney relationship in terms of both longevity and commitment. IOW, it's highly insulting as well as being completely misleading if not disingenuous.

patteeu
03-15-2008, 09:55 AM
would you go to a chuch for 20 years knowing that you disagree with the man preaching, ask him to officiate at your wedding, and baptize your children?

Yeah, I pointed this out to dirk the last time he claimed that there wasn't "any evidence". Apparently he doesn't think that an extended period of time spent voluntarily with a guy you consider a mentor or spiritual advisor suggests that you would have any level of tolerance of said mentor's views on morality or social justice. :rolleyes:

beer bacon
03-15-2008, 10:00 AM
Not good enough. I'm looking for a link to that quote. McCain never called Parsley *his* spiritual guide. To compare the McCain-Parsley relationship to the Obama-Wright relationship is like comparing the Spitzer/kristen relationship to the Mitt/Ann Romney relationship in terms of both longevity and commitment. IOW, it's highly insulting as well as being completely misleading if not disingenuous.

Yeah, the difference between Obama and McCain is that Obama has never expressed in the type of sentiment people are railing on Wright for. He has also, multiple times denounced that sentiment.

McCain on the other hand is actually courting right wing religious fundamentalists that hold bigoted views like John Hagee and Parsley.

If you are going to continue to rage against Obama for the views of another individual. Views that Obama has publicly disavowed and views that are contradicted by what Obama has said and done throughout his life, than you can't have a double standard.

dirk digler
03-15-2008, 10:19 AM
would you go to a chuch for 20 years knowing that you disagree with the man preaching, ask him to officiate at your wedding, and baptize your children?

Is there any evidence that Obama feels the same as Wright? Any at all?

Now if Wright spoke like this at every sermon for the last 30 years then I would agree with you but that is not the case at least from what I have learned.

From his interview with the Tribune yesterday


The things he said and the way he said them I think are offensive. And I reject them, and they don't reflect who I am or what I believe in. In fairness to him, this was sort of a greatest hits, they basically culled five or six sermons out of 30 years of preaching. That doesn't excuse them, and I've said so very clearly. But that's not the relationship I had with him. That's not the relationship I had with the church, and if I had heard those kinds of statements being said, if I had been in church on those days, I would have objected fiercely to them and I would have told him personally.

When some of these statements first came to light was right around when I was starting to run for president. He was a year away from retirement, and the church itself is a pillar of the community and a well regarded, well-known church. I suspect there are members of the Tribune family that are also members of Trinity.

It is not what's been painted as this separatist church or what have you, it is a very traditional African-American church on the South Side of Chicago. And most of the reverend's sermons are the sermons of a traditional African-American pastor. And so my view was that it would not be appropriate for me to distance myself from the church. I put out a statement saying I profoundly disagree with these statements. And the fact that he is now retiring makes me not want to simply discard him. He's like a member of the family, he's like your uncle who says things you profoundly disagree with, but he's still your uncle.

Direckshun
03-15-2008, 10:49 AM
Isn't the simplest explanation here that Wright could be a religious scholar but a political dumbass, and that Obama can tell the difference when he's being either?

patteeu
03-15-2008, 11:34 AM
Yeah, the difference between Obama and McCain is that Obama has never expressed in the type of sentiment people are railing on Wright for. He has also, multiple times denounced that sentiment.

McCain on the other hand is actually courting right wing religious fundamentalists that hold bigoted views like John Hagee and Parsley.

If you are going to continue to rage against Obama for the views of another individual. Views that Obama has publicly disavowed and views that are contradicted by what Obama has said and done throughout his life, than you can't have a double standard.

It's not a double standard as I pointed out in response to your previous false quote. BTW, this post of yours is more BS because McCain has been quick to distance himself from controversial statements of those he barely knows when he finds out about those statements. It doesn't take him 20 years to do so.

The hypocrisy is on your side on this issue. You wanted to play up the long standing connection between Obama and his church as long as it was to Obama's advantage, but now that it's become somewhat toxic it's as if he barely even paid attention when he occasionally dropped by.