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View Full Version : Spewsmax article 8/9/07 puts Obama at US White America sermon 7/22/07...OOOPs


memyselfI
03-15-2008, 02:14 PM
Well that didn't take long. Of course, we should probably be weary since it IS Spewsmax but notice this article was written almost 8 months ago before the recent denials of see now evil, hear no evil....ROFL

No, this isn't as good as a picture or video but it's a first step to proving that HE is lying.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/8/8/194812.shtml?s=lh

Presidential candidate Barack Obama preaches on the campaign trail that America needs a new consensus based on faith and bipartisanship, yet he continues to attend a controversial Chicago church whose pastor routinely refers to "white arrogance" and "the United States of White America."

In fact, Obama was in attendance at the church when these statements were made on July 22.

Obama has spoken and written of his special relationship with that pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr.

The connection between the two goes back to Obama's days as a young community organizer in Chicago's South Side when he first met the charismatic Wright. Obama credited Wright with converting him, then a religious skeptic, to Christianity. [Editor's Note: Can Oprah Winfrey make Barack Obama president? Click Here.]

"It was ... at Trinity United Church of Christ on the South Side of Chicago that I met Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., who took me on another journey and introduced me to a man named Jesus Christ. It was the best education I ever had," Obama described his spiritual pilgrimage to a group of church ministers this past June.

Since the 1980s, Obama has not only remained a regular attendee at Wright's services in his inner city mega church, Trinity United Church of Christ, along with its other 8,500 members, he's been a close disciple and personal friend of Wright.

Wright conducted Obama's marriage to his wife Michelle, baptized his two daughters, and blessed Obama's Chicago home. Obama's best-selling book, "The Audacity of Hope," takes its title from one of Wright's sermons.

Because of this close relationship, questions have been raised as to the influence the divisive pastor will have on the consensus-building potential president.

Obama and Wright appear, at first blush, an unlikely pair. Wright is Chicago's version of the Rev. Al Sharpton.

It was no surprise that Sharpton recently announced that with Wright's backing, he was setting up a chapter of his New York-based National Action Network in Chicagoland. The chapter will be headed by Wright's daughter, Jeri Wright.

Minister of Controversy

Obama was not the only national African-American figure to cozy up to Wright. TV host Oprah Winfrey once described herself as a congregant, but in recent years has disassociated herself from the controversial minister.

A visit to Wright's Trinity United is anything but Oprah-style friendly.

As I approached the entrance of the church before a recent Sunday service, a large young man in an expensive suit stepped out to block the doorway.

"What are you doing here?" he asked.

"I came to hear Dr. Wright," I replied.

After an uncomfortable pause, the gentleman stepped aside.

On this particular July Sabbath morning, only a handful of white men — aside from a few members of Obama's Secret Service detail — were present among a congregation of approximately 2,500 people.

The floral arrangements were extravagant. Wright, his associate pastors, choir members, and many of the gentlemen in the congregation were attired in traditional African dashiki robes. African drums accompanied the organist.

Trinity United bears the motto "Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian."

Wright says its doctrine reflects black liberation theology, which views the Bible in part as a record of the struggles of "people of color" against oppression.

A skilled and fiery orator, Wright's interpretation of the Scriptures has been described as "Afrocentric."

When referring to the Romans, for example, he refers to "European oppression" — not addressing the fact that the Egyptians, who were also a slave society, were people of Africa.

The Trinity United Web site tells of a "commitment to the black community, commitment to the black family, adherence to the black work ethic, pledge to make all the fruits of developing acquired skills available to the black community."

"Some white people hear it as racism in reverse," Dwight Hopkins, a professor at the University of Chicago Divinity School, a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ, tells The New York Times. Blacks tend to hear a different message, Hopkins says: "Yes, we are somebody; we're also made in God's image."

Controversy Abounds

Several prior remarks by Obama's pastor have caught the media's attention:

# Wright on 9/11: "White America got their wake-up call after 9/11. White America and the Western world came to realize people of color had not gone away, faded in the woodwork, or just disappeared as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring black concerns." On the Sunday after the attacks, Dr. Wright blamed America.

# Wright on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway: "Black women are being raped daily in Africa. One white girl from Alabama gets drunk at a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and gives it up while in a foreign country and that stays in the news for months."

# Wright on Israel: "The Israelis have illegally occupied Palestinian territories for over 40 years now. Divestment has now hit the table again as a strategy to wake the business community and wake up Americans concerning the injustice and the racism under which the Palestinians have lived because of Zionism."

# Wright on America: He has used the term "middleclassness" in a derogatory manner; frequently mentions "white arrogance" and the "oppression" of African-Americans today; and has referred to "this racist United States of America."

Bush's Bulls--t

Wright's strong sentiments were echoed in the Sunday morning service attended by NewsMax.

Wright laced into America's establishment, blaming the "white arrogance" of America's Caucasian majority for the woes of the world, especially the oppression suffered by blacks. To underscore the point he refers to the country as the "United States of White America." Many in the congregation, including Obama, nodded in apparent agreement as these statements were made.

The sermon also addressed the Iraq war, a frequent area of Wright's fulminations.

"Young African-American men," Wright thundered, were "dying for nothing." The "illegal war," he shouted, was "based on Bush's lies" and is being "fought for oil money."

In a sermon filled with profanity, Wright also blamed the war on "Bush administration bulls--t."

Those are the types of statements that have led to MSNBC's Tucker Carlson describing Wright as "a full-blown hater."

Wright first came to national attention in 1984, when he visited Castro's Cuba and Col. Muammar Gaddafi's Libya.

Wright's Libyan visit came three years after a pair of Libyan fighter jets fired on American aircraft over international waters in the Mediterranean Sea, and four years before the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland — which resulted in the deaths of 259 passengers and crew. The U.S. implicated Gaddafi and his intelligence services in the bombing.

In recent years, Wright has focused his diatribe on America's war on terror and the U.S. occupation of Iraq.

For a February 2003 service, Wright placed a "War on Iraq IQ Test" on the Pastor's Page of the church Web site. The test consisted of a series of questions and answers that clearly portrayed America as the aggressor, and the war as unjustified and illegal. Marginally relevant issues regarding Israel received attention.

The test also portrayed the Iraqi people as victims of trade sanctions, but Saddam Hussein's propensity for using "oil for food" proceeds to build palaces rather than buy medicine was never mentioned.

At the end of the test, the pastor wrote, "Members of Trinity are asked to think about these things and be prayerful as we sift through the ‘hype' being poured on by the George Bush-controlled media." Obama's campaign staff did not respond to a NewsMax request for the senator's response to Wright's statements.

In April, however, Obama spoke to The New York Times about Wright, and appeared to be trying to distance himself from his spiritual mentor. He said, "We don't agree on everything. I've never had a thorough conversation with him about all aspects of politics."

More specifically, Obama told the Times, "The violence of 9/11 was inexcusable and without justification," adding "It sounds like [Wright] was trying to be provocative."

Obama attributed Wright's controversial views to Wright being "a child of the '60s" who Obama said "expresses himself in that language of concern with institutional racism, and the struggles the African-American community has gone through."

"It is hard to imagine, though, how Mr. Obama can truly distance himself from Mr. Wright," writes Jodi Kantor of The New York Times. On the day Sen. Obama announced his presidential quest in February of this year, Wright was set to give the invocation at the Springfield, Ill. rally. At the last moment, Obama's campaign yanked the invite to Wright.

Wright's camp was apparently upset by the slight, and Obama's campaign quickly issued a statement "Senator Obama is proud of his pastor and his church."

Since that spat, there is little evidence, indeed, that Sen. Obama has sought to distance himself from the angry Church leader. In June, when Obama appeared before a conference of ministers from his religious denomination, Wright appeared in a videotaped introduction.

One of Obama's campaign themes has been his claim that conservative evangelicals have "hijacked" Christianity, ignoring issues like poverty, AIDS, and racism.

This past June, in an effort to build a new consensus between his new politics and faith, Obama's campaign launched a new Web page, www.faith.barackobama.com.

On the day the page appeared on his campaign site, it offered testimonials from Wright and two other ministers supporting Obama. The inclusion of Wright drew a sharp rebuke from the Catholic League. Noting that Obama had rescinded Wright's invitation to speak at his announcement ceremony, Catholic League President Bill Donohue declared that Obama "knew that his spiritual adviser was so divisive that he would cloud the ceremonies."

He noted that Wright "has a record of giving racially inflammatory sermons and has even said that Zionism has an element of ‘white racism.' He also blamed the attacks of 9/11 on American foreign policy."

Donohue acknowledged that Obama may have different views than Wright and the other ministers on his Web site, but "he is responsible for giving them the opportunity to prominently display their testimonials on his religious outreach Web site."

Political pundits have suggested that Obama's problems with Wright are not ones based on faith, but pure politics. The upstart presidential candidate needs to pull most of the black vote to have any chance of snagging the Democratic nomination. Obama's ties to Wright and the activist African American church helps in that effort.

But the same experts same those same ties may come to haunt him if he were to win the nomination and face a Republican in the general election.

The worry is not lost on Wright.

"If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me," Wright told The New York Times with a shrug. "I said it to Barack personally, and he said 'yeah, that might have to happen.'"

Logical
03-15-2008, 02:31 PM
Good lord if this is the horrible things said the day Obama was present you must be freaking joking. Nothing horrible at all.Wright laced into America's establishment, blaming the "white arrogance" of America's Caucasian majority for the woes of the world, especially the oppression suffered by blacks. To underscore the point he refers to the country as the "United States of White America." Many in the congregation, including Obama, nodded in apparent agreement as these statements were made.

The sermon also addressed the Iraq war, a frequent area of Wright's fulminations.

"Young African-American men," Wright thundered, were "dying for nothing." The "illegal war," he shouted, was "based on Bush's lies" and is being "fought for oil money."

Matter of fact it is not unusual for DEnise to say similar things.

Ultra Peanut
03-15-2008, 03:02 PM
But Newsmax says Obama nodded. It's not okay to nod. Ever. Even if you think the war was stupid.

Adept Havelock
03-15-2008, 03:06 PM
Good lord if this is the horrible things said the day Obama was present you must be freaking joking. Nothing horrible at all.

Matter of fact it is not unusual for DEnise to say similar things.

IOKIYASH. ;)

Ultra Peanut
03-15-2008, 03:19 PM
I think the most revealing part of this is actually that Camp Hillary has to dredge through back issues of Newsmax to come up with something to throw at him.

Taco John
03-15-2008, 03:20 PM
It's O K if you are Saddam Hussein?

Taco John
03-15-2008, 03:22 PM
So this story seals it...

Obama can kiss the right wing Republican vote goodbye.

patteeu
03-15-2008, 03:39 PM
That last quote from Jeremiah Wright (from the NYTimes, not newsmax) and the context in which it is made, should give Obama supporters a lot of reason to pause before accepting their candidate's recent statement distancing himself from his pastor and feigning ignorance of his pastor's controversial positions. It's pretty damning:

"If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me," Wright told The New York Times with a shrug. "I said it to Barack personally, and he said 'yeah, that might have to happen.'"

Contrary to what some would like to believe, the controversy around Jeremiah Wright is not a new revelation, least of all to Obama.

Adept Havelock
03-15-2008, 03:41 PM
It's O K if you are Saddam Hussein?

IOKI you're a shiess head. ;)

Cochise
03-15-2008, 04:04 PM
Wasn't the line previously that he was ignorant of this guy's kooky wingtard tendencies?

HonestChieffan
03-15-2008, 04:14 PM
That was the last line. New plays been sent in from the coaches.

dirk digler
03-15-2008, 04:15 PM
That last quote from Jeremiah Wright (from the NYTimes, not newsmax) and the context in which it is made, should give Obama supporters a lot of reason to pause before accepting their candidate's recent statement distancing himself from his pastor and feigning ignorance of his pastor's controversial positions. It's pretty damning:



Contrary to what some would like to believe, the controversy around Jeremiah Wright is not a new revelation, least of all to Obama.

That is not surprising at all he didn't want him to be a part of his presidential introduction a year and a half ago. Obama denounced some of his comments right around that same time.

Also it is now being reported that alot of black ministers are going to come out and denounce Obama and withdraw their support because he denounced his preachers comments.

So what does that tell us, it tells us the black community see and feel things alot different than us white folk do and they have a totally different perspective that we could never understand.

memyselfI
03-15-2008, 04:17 PM
That last quote from Jeremiah Wright (from the NYTimes, not newsmax) and the context in which it is made, should give Obama supporters a lot of reason to pause before accepting their candidate's recent statement distancing himself from his pastor and feigning ignorance of his pastor's controversial positions. It's pretty damning:



Contrary to what some would like to believe, the controversy around Jeremiah Wright is not a new revelation, least of all to Obama.

Yep. The bottom line for those of us not drinking Obamade is not pretty because it means one of two things.

1. That he outright lied and was present for controversial remarks be it the 'hate America' type and/or the racially divisive type.

or 2, which I think is the more likely option, but his supporters are still so smitten with him that they haven't had their 'ah-ha' moment yet. He was there and didn't perceive, think or understand Wright's comments as BEING racially divisive or 'American hating.' Meaning, he heard them and they didn't strike him as being unacceptable until it was pointed out to him by the campaign adviser hence he ditched Wright on announcement day.

Except that, he and Wright previously had the conversation that Wright's remarks might be a problem for him. Wouldn't an intelligent, educated, and loyal man actually try to find out what those remarks were if he happened to miss those sermons over the many years? Of if he was in the john when those remarks were said? Or if he'd been listening to HIS Ipod in church????

No, according to Baaarack, he was unaware of the controversial nature of the remarks until they were told to him (after the fact) on election announcement eve EVEN THOUGH HE admitted he and Wright discussed the existence of a potential controversy and the need to possibly put distance between themselves...

ok. :spock: :doh!: :rolleyes:

HonestChieffan
03-15-2008, 04:33 PM
That is not surprising at all he didn't want him to be a part of his presidential introduction a year and a half ago. Obama denounced some of his comments right around that same time.

Also it is now being reported that alot of black ministers are going to come out and denounce Obama and withdraw their support because he denounced his preachers comments.

So what does that tell us, it tells us the black community see and feel things alot different than us white folk do and they have a totally different perspective that we could never understand.


How? You honestly think Cleaver who is an honorable upstanding dedicated leader would have anything to do with this hate monger? Hes black, a minister (Methodist) and would see hate and sepratist actions no different than you or I. Black people dont see or feel things different than brown, yellow, white or whatever. CRAZY nutjobs of any race see things in twisted and odd ways, thats not related to skin color.

Blacks will rally around good judgement. They dont want you to put them in your little "Oh they are black" box.

jAZ
03-15-2008, 05:34 PM
I hope Obama has his facts accurate here, because making a firm but not perfectly worded denial like he has is somewhat risky because it moves what is really a story about someone else (Wright) into a story about him if he mis-speaks right now.

And the what's interesting about it, is that Obama's response in this interview with Keith Olberman is fantastic and stands on it's own merits.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lk3Rra3CgMA"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lk3Rra3CgMA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

He points out Wright's generational 60's era and and how he's not part of that generation. He could use how Wright is still fighting 60's era battles as a way to contrast himself both with that sort of rhetoric and with Clinton and McCain both.

He starts to do that in the above interview, but he really should focus on that more. Because it's both legit and impactful, I think.

ClevelandBronco
03-15-2008, 05:41 PM
So what does that tell us, it tells us the black community see and feel things alot different than us white folk do and they have a totally different perspective that we could never understand.

It doesn't tell me much of anything about the black "community." It does tell me something about a fraction of it.

It's possible to understand such a perspective and still think it's stupid.

dirk digler
03-15-2008, 05:43 PM
How? You honestly think Cleaver who is an honorable upstanding dedicated leader would have anything to do with this hate monger? Hes black, a minister (Methodist) and would see hate and sepratist actions no different than you or I. Black people dont see or feel things different than brown, yellow, white or whatever. CRAZY nutjobs of any race see things in twisted and odd ways, thats not related to skin color.

Blacks will rally around good judgement. They dont want you to put them in your little "Oh they are black" box.

I am not black obviously but to say they don't have a different perspective on America then white people is being naive. Do you think a black person like Wright who lived through all the race problems through the 60's has the same perspective and view of America then a white person? Of course not because they saw the evil things that happened to people of his color during that time.

I am not saying what he said was right but he grew up and experienced things that none of us have and alot of black people of that age believe in alot of things that he says.

Let me give you an example, in one of the videos he talks about the government bringing in drugs to poor areas and then building prisons to house the people that they gave the drugs too. Let me tell you from some of my black friends alot of the black community believe this. This example isn't something new I heard this 15+ years ago from black people.

Now you may think that is ludicrous but in the black community they view it as reality.

dirk digler
03-15-2008, 05:46 PM
One other thing that I would like to mention, Oprah is a frequent member of this church does anyone believe that she thinks this way? Anyone?

Taco John
03-15-2008, 05:54 PM
This is not fringe thought in the Black community. This is mainstream thought.

So if you recognize this as a symptom, what is the source of it? That's the real question here. Stifiling the symptom by trying to shame it is only going to make it flare up worse. The real issue here is that what this man is saying is true.

memyselfI
03-15-2008, 06:01 PM
One other thing that I would like to mention, Oprah is a frequent member of this church does anyone believe that she think this way? Anyone?

I don't know enough about her or pay enough attention to her to know. I do know there are lots of negative remarks on her message boards expressing dismay over this issue and if the women posting these remarks are any indication of her viewers support of Baaarack then he's going to be in some serious doodoo.

http://www.oprah.com/community/thread/37820?tstart=0

The polls today indicate HE already could be taking a hit:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton essentially even in the race for the Democratic Presidential Nomination. It’s Obama 46% Clinton 45% (see recent daily results). This reflects an unusually sharp change from yesterday’s results when Obama led by eight points and reached the 50% level of support for the first time.

dirk digler
03-15-2008, 06:03 PM
This is not fringe thought in the Black community. This is mainstream thought.

So if you recognize this as a symptom, what is the source of it? That's the real question here. Stifiling the symptom by trying to shame it is only going to make it flare up worse. The real issue here is that what this man is saying is true.

Yep.

From David Gergen from CNN

GERGEN: I hope, in the next segment, we can come back to understanding that there's a discourse, there's a conversation in the black community....There has been for a long time, which is different from what is in the white community. And we ought to understand and appreciate the differences ... and not expect everybody to be just the same in this country.

(commercial break)

COOPER: ....David Gergen brought up an interesting point.... about the African-American experience, the African-American experience in church versus white American experience in church and the tradition. Different traditions.

Is there -- is there something that -- I mean, white people looking at this interpret differently -- you can't generalize like this, but that African-Americans looking at this may see it differently or hear things differently than white Americans listening to this?

COOPER: David, you brought this up. Why do you think that's an important point?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, because there's a long tradition, Anderson. And among black leaders to have a different view of American history, going all the way back to Frederick Douglass, who was one of the greatest American heroes of the 19th century, you know, who -- who gained his freedom from slavery in a great order.

He was invited the a July 4th celebration to give a July 4th speech in 1852, and he showed up and said, "You know, you whites see July 4 very differently from what I see it. This is not a day of celebration for us."

And I have found that in my classroom with black students frequently. When they speak their minds and when they speak their hearts, they have a very different view. I've had a young woman tell me, "July 4, we still can't celebrate it in my family, because of what's happened to us."

And I think that we as whites have to be understanding and empathic toward that and try to understand that, that people who are African-Americans legitimately have a different perspective on what American history has meant and take that into account as we hear this.

And it's not a lack of patriotism. It is a different form of patriotism. Actually, Reverend Wright may love this country more than any of us but feel we've fallen short of what we preach and believe.

memyselfI
03-15-2008, 06:07 PM
Yep.

From David Gergen from CNN



Ok, perhaps Baaarack can run on a platform which includes removing the 4th of July from our national holiday list. :eek: :rolleyes:

Taco John
03-15-2008, 06:13 PM
Here is a sermon by Dr. Martin Luther King... Nothing that was said by Obama's pastor is too terribly divergent from the man who we have a holiday for every January.


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dirk digler
03-15-2008, 06:16 PM
I don't know enough about her or pay enough attention to her to know. I do know there are lots of negative remarks on her message boards expressing dismay over this issue and if the women posting these remarks are any indication of her viewers support of Baaarack then he's going to be in some serious doodoo.

http://www.oprah.com/community/thread/37820?tstart=0

The polls today indicate HE already could be taking a hit:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

I take that as a no.

I don't care about remarks on her board she has been getting alot of negative posts since she endorsed Obama and she personally said she could care less.

As far as the polls go I will wait until Monday or Tuesday to see if they move alot because they have been fluctuating alot lately. Clinton was up several points earlier this week

memyselfI
03-15-2008, 06:16 PM
Here is a sermon by Dr. Martin Luther King... Nothing that was said by Obama's pastor is too terribly divergent from the man who we have a holiday for every January.


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Except that MLK was speaking like this when he had to use 'Negro' bathrooms... :doh!:

dirk digler
03-15-2008, 06:17 PM
Ok, perhaps Baaarack can run on a platform which includes removing the 4th of July from our national holiday list. :eek: :rolleyes:

No it shows how black people view things differently then whites do.

memyselfI
03-15-2008, 06:18 PM
I take that as a no.

I don't care about remarks on her board she has been getting alot of negative posts since she endorsed Obama and she personally said she could care less.

As far as the polls go I will wait until Monday or Tuesday to see if they move alot because they have been fluctuating alot lately. Clinton was up several points earlier this week

I am not an Oprahbot but know women who are. They could tell you if she feels this way about whites and the US. Me, I wouldn't know what Oprah thinks.

memyselfI
03-15-2008, 06:20 PM
No it shows how black people view things differently then whites do.

Some do. Some don't. It's naive and actually quite bigoted to lump them into one group as if they are all one in the same. There are blacks who would attend a church like that and feel quite at home and others who wouldn't. I've known both.

dirk digler
03-15-2008, 06:23 PM
Some do. Some don't. It's naive and actually quite bigoted to lump them into one group as if they are all one in the same. There are blacks who would attend a church like that and feel quite at home and others who wouldn't. I've known both.

I agree and don't mean to lump them all together

Taco John
03-15-2008, 06:40 PM
Except that MLK was speaking like this when he had to use 'Negro' bathrooms... :doh!:



Thanks for that Rush.

Stupid ****.

memyselfI
03-15-2008, 06:43 PM
Thanks for that Rush.

Stupid ****.

Nice.

Was I factually incorrect? Must have been because there would be no other reason for such vitriol. :harumph:

Taco John
03-15-2008, 06:47 PM
Nice.

Was I factually incorrect? Must have been because there would be no other reason for such vitriol. :harumph:


Shut the **** up you stupid bitch. Not only were you incorrect, but you were way off context. Next time listen to the sermon before you open your gaping hole. His sermon had nothing to do with race. It had to do with America.

memyselfI
03-15-2008, 07:04 PM
Shut the **** up you stupid bitch. Not only were you incorrect, but you were way off context. Next time listen to the sermon before you open your gaping hole. His sermon had nothing to do with race. It had to do with America.

Right. Do you not agree that both of these men developed their view of America based on their race and their experiences from it? And that if you are going to compare and contrast their statements then you must also look at their lives when they were making those statements.

Wright's statements were within the past decade while MLKs were 40 years ago. A great deal has changed within the past 40 years. A great deal hasn't.

One wonders if MLK would be as radicalized as Wright is if he were still alive. I have a hard time believing he would be. I think he would have seen the wisdom of moderation and toned it down a bit ala Jessie Jackson. Even Jessie has toned it down from twenty years ago when he was running.

Taco John
03-15-2008, 07:16 PM
Right. Do you not agree that both of these men developed their view of America based on their race and their experiences from it? And that if you are going to compare and contrast their statements then you must also look at their lives when they were making those statements.

Wright's statements were within the past decade while MLKs were 40 years ago. A great deal has changed within the past 40 years. A great deal hasn't.

One wonders if MLK would be as radicalized as Wright is if he were still alive. I have a hard time believing he would be. I think he would have seen the wisdom of moderation and toned it down a bit ala Jessie Jackson. Even Jessie has toned it down from twenty years ago when he was running.


Still off context. :rolleyes:

You're hopeless. The funny thing is, if this was John Edwards pastor four years ago, you'd have defended the man to your last breath.

I remember back when I used to bother to show you any amount of respect. You have a way of making people who do that look (and feel) like complete jackasses for doing so. You won't catch me ever making that mistake again.

jettio
03-15-2008, 07:20 PM
Still off context. :rolleyes:

You're hopeless. The funny thing is, if this was John Edwards pastor four years ago, you'd have defended the man to your last breath.

I remember back when I used to bother to show you any amount of respect. You have a way of making people who do that look (and feel) like complete jackasses for doing so. You won't catch me ever making that mistake again.

Is John Edwards that guy that used to wiggle his azz and fix his hair up real good?

He had a real shot if he did not have to go on family leave at such an inopportune time.

You have to give him props for putting his families first.

memyselfI
03-15-2008, 07:25 PM
Still off context. :rolleyes:

You're hopeless. The funny thing is, if this was John Edwards pastor four years ago, you'd have defended the man to your last breath.

I remember back when I used to bother to show you any amount of respect. You have a way of making people who do that look (and feel) like complete jackasses for doing so. You won't catch me ever making that mistake again.

John Edwards.

I know people have no other argument when they bring up John Edwards. ROFLROFLROFL

Next.

Taco John
03-15-2008, 07:32 PM
John Edwards.

I know people have no other argument when they bring up John Edwards. ROFLROFLROFL

Next.


Argument? You completely missed the mark. You'd have to actually enter the arena to have an argument with me. Not just say stuff a bunch of off context things and pat yourself on the back for being such an amazingly talented debater.

But what I said was true. If it were John Edwards and four years ago, you'd have been arguing on the Wright side, instead of the right (as in Rush) side.

Logical
03-15-2008, 08:11 PM
Is John Edwards that guy that used to wiggle his azz and fix his hair up real good?

He had a real shot if he did not have to go on family leave at such an inopportune time.

You have to give him props for putting his families first.
Whoa that is harsh

Ultra Peanut
03-16-2008, 02:04 AM
"There are those seeking to equate dissent with disloyalty."

Great find, Teej.

This is not fringe thought in the Black community. This is mainstream thought.

So if you recognize this as a symptom, what is the source of it? That's the real question here. Stifiling the symptom by trying to shame it is only going to make it flare up worse. The real issue here is that what this man is saying is true.What I love is how some white people get up in arms when people in the black community happen to be upset about that whole "systemic suppression of their race" thing.

Except that MLK was speaking like this when he had to use 'Negro' bathrooms... :doh!:Sure, Geraldine. Racism, particularly institutionalized racism, just isn't a problem anymore.

http://i29.tinypic.com/2m5191g.jpg

Taco John
03-16-2008, 02:12 AM
"There are those seeking to equate dissent with disloyalty."

Great find, Teej.




It was a beautiful sermon. Certainly Wright's delivery lacks. But the message isn't that far off the path from what MLK was saying. Saying "God Damn America" is certainly a radical thing to say. But killing innocent women and children who happen to get in our way for the sake of protecting "our" oil is a pretty radical thing to do.

Which do you suppose is more radical?

SBK
03-16-2008, 03:01 AM
It was a beautiful sermon. Certainly Wright's delivery lacks. But the message isn't that far off the path from what MLK was saying. Saying "God Damn America" is certainly a radical thing to say. But killing innocent women and children who happen to get in our way for the sake of protecting "our" oil is a pretty radical thing to do.

Which do you suppose is more radical?

One could argue that MLK was a uniter, and wanted equality and integration of all, whereas Wright wants separation, which is very similar......

Taco John
03-16-2008, 04:08 AM
One could argue that MLK was a uniter, and wanted equality and integration of all, whereas Wright wants separation, which is very similar......


Wright wants separation? I'm not going to guess what the man wants. But I haven't seen anything that would convince me that "Wright wants separation." Do you have a specific quote that would support such an over-the-top assertion that Wright is a black seperatist?

CHIEF4EVER
03-16-2008, 06:29 AM
What I love is how some white people get up in arms when people in the black community happen to be upset about that whole "systemic suppression of their race" thing.

:rolleyes:

Because the notion that the system is "just trying to keep the black man down" is a load of hooey. That may have been the case back in the 'seperate but equal' days before the CRA and before AA but it is most certainly not the case now. I personally get sick and tired of being blamed for all the ills that take place in the black community in this country simply because I was born with a different skin pigmentation than they were. I was born white, therefore it's my fault....great logic and not racist at all, eh? I have a lot of black friends and coworkers and one of them is a very close friend who also happens to be a minister. Funny thing is....he doesn't spew hate filled rhetoric and vitriol at those of other races to explain away the problems facing the black community. Imagine that. :eek:

I find the ignorance of some people positively mind numbing. :shake:

NewChief
03-16-2008, 06:36 AM
What Obama needs to do is just say, "Look, maybe I was there. I was probably asleep like 95% of the other Americans in church, alright?"

Ultra Peanut
03-16-2008, 07:42 AM
:rolleyes:

Because the notion that the system is "just trying to keep the black man down" is a load of hooey.You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire situation. No one has to be actively TRYING to "keep the black man down" in order for said eventuality to occur. That's why it's systemic.

memyselfI
03-16-2008, 08:38 AM
"There are those seeking to equate dissent with disloyalty."

Great find, Teej.

What I love is how some white people get up in arms when people in the black community happen to be upset about that whole "systemic suppression of their race" thing.

Sure, Geraldine. Racism, particularly institutionalized racism, just isn't a problem anymore.



Wait, first off, I am 1/4 white so your 'white people' insult need not apply. Secondly, I'm Hispanic and know all about the systemic and insitutional racism that exists and I'm not saying racism isn't a problem anymore. MOF, if Baaarack WERE campaigning as a black man with racial inequity being one of his primary platforms THEN not only would I agree with him but likely be behind him. If he'd been honest about it like Bill Richardson then he'd have some integrity regarding the issue.

But that is the point, he hasn't. MOF, he's tried to run as a colorless candidate claiming that color doesn't matter for the masses while simultaneously he and his wife are a winking and a clapping and saying 'Amen' to the rhetoric of Pastor Wright. Rhetoric that does NOTHING to close the racial divide and merely reinforces the feeling that white America is out to get them and they are perpetual victims. He's tried to have it both ways and that is hypocrisy. He's burning both ends of the candle and it will burn him not only now but later in a BIG way.

The irony here and one that Trinity UCC is failing to embrace is that for their guy Baaarack to get elected he has to BECOME one of the one's they disavow at least in appearances and rhetoric. The other irony that the folks and mindset of Trinity UCC will be the FIRST disillusioned and disenchanted when their new black leader does NOTHING to remedy their lives because he's chosen to run as a leader transcending color or race THEREBY NULLIFYING THE NEED TO ADDRESS RACIAL INEQUITY down the road. He's chosen to become one of 'them' in order to be one of them...

or has he? Which Obama is he?

Sully
03-16-2008, 09:08 AM
Wright wants separation

No he doesn't.

He has said very specifically and very strongly that he doesn't believe anything fo the sort.

patteeu
03-16-2008, 12:19 PM
That is not surprising at all he didn't want him to be a part of his presidential introduction a year and a half ago. Obama denounced some of his comments right around that same time.

Also it is now being reported that alot of black ministers are going to come out and denounce Obama and withdraw their support because he denounced his preachers comments.

So what does that tell us, it tells us the black community see and feel things alot different than us white folk do and they have a totally different perspective that we could never understand.

It also tells us that Obama's latest damage control statement is, to say the least, misleading to the extent that there is no way that he has been unaware of these types of statements by his long-time pastor and mentor up until the point that this latest news broke. Deceit is not Hope.

BucEyedPea
03-16-2008, 12:36 PM
It also tells us that Obama's latest damage control statement is, to say the least, misleading to the extent that there is no way that he has been unaware of these types of statements by his long-time pastor and mentor up until the point that this latest news broke. Deceit is not Hope.

I didn't see that Obama said that he was entirely "unaware" of these types of statements by his pastor. I think what he said is being altered somewat—even infused with what the opposition wants it to sound like. What I saw, when Obama was interviewed and questioned by FOX was that he was unaware of them as "repetitive" statements in his church sermons.

I have a hard time believing Obama, who is half-white and raised by the white side of his family is a racist. I don't have a hard time with him believing in the idea of the oppressed, the poor, or what we consider left-wing ideas. These are common ideas on the left both black and white. These dove-tail more with his policies on health-care, college education and use of more diplomacy by our govt.

BucEyedPea
03-16-2008, 12:37 PM
It also tells us that Obama's latest damage control statement is, to say the least, misleading to the extent that there is no way that he has been unaware of these types of statements by his long-time pastor and mentor up until the point that this latest news broke. Deceit is not Hope.

I didn't see that Obama said that he was entirely "unaware" of these types of statements by his pastor. I think what he said is being altered somewhat—even infused with what the opposition wants it to sound like. What I saw, when Obama was interviewed and questioned by FOX was that he was unaware of them as "repetitive" statements in his church sermons.

I have a hard time believing Obama, who is half-white and raised by the white side of his family is a racist. I don't have a hard time with him believing in the idea of the oppressed, the poor, or how the military should be used or what we consider left-wing ideas. These are common ideas on the left both black and white. These dove-tail more with his policies on health-care, college education and use of more diplomacy by our govt.

patteeu
03-16-2008, 02:16 PM
I didn't see that Obama said that he was entirely "unaware" of these types of statements by his pastor. I think what he said is being altered somewat—even infused with what the opposition wants it to sound like. What I saw, when Obama was interviewed and questioned by FOX was that he was unaware of them as "repetitive" statements in his church sermons.

I have a hard time believing Obama, who is half-white and raised by the white side of his family is a racist. I don't have a hard time with him believing in the idea of the oppressed, the poor, or what we consider left-wing ideas. These are common ideas on the left both black and white. These dove-tail more with his policies on health-care, college education and use of more diplomacy by our govt.

You're right, he didn't say he just learned about them in the past few days. My mistake. He said he first learned about them when he started his campaign. I find that equally unbelievable.

I don't believe he's a racist either. I believe he's a radical leftist at heart who is a skilled double-talking, opportunistic, panderer trying to wear the cloak of a straight talking, difference reconciling, transracial, hope candidate. When it served him, he was sitting in the pews of TUCC nodding to the left-wing, afrocentric messages, but now that those messages don't serve him quite as well, as his pastor indicated in the NYTimes, he's going to have to distance himself from that which he previously sought to associate.

RINGLEADER
03-16-2008, 02:34 PM
But Newsmax says Obama nodded. It's not okay to nod. Ever. Even if you think the war was stupid.

LOL. I tend to agree but I did predict when it came out it would be the nod that sealed the deal. :)

BucEyedPea
03-16-2008, 04:40 PM
pat, that's not what I meant. I meant Obama claimed he was not aware of Wright making those statements repeatedly in his sermons.

patteeu
03-16-2008, 04:54 PM
pat, that's not what I meant. I meant Obama claimed he was not aware of Wright making those statements repeatedly in his sermons.

I was wrong when I said he claimed to have just become aware of the statements this week. To that extent, I stand corrected as my last post indicates. I don't know or care about whether he was aware of how often his pastor made these remarks. In his statement addressing the controversy (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html), he doesn't make any claim about how infrequently these controversial sermons might have occurred. But it wouldn't matter to me anyway. I don't believe him on this subject and I don't see how anyone can take his explanation seriously. What was that Hillary said about suspension of disbelief?

P.S. Don't take this response as saying you are right or wrong about what you think he said. I didn't hear that anywhere, but I'm not discounting the possibility that he said that at some point along with way as he was trying to wiggle out of the catch-22 he's found himself in.