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View Full Version : Obama on Pastor Wright, Geraldine Ferraro moving beyond the "lens" of the past.


jAZ
03-16-2008, 11:36 AM
I touched on this in a post in another thread, but I think Obama has found the PERFECT response to the Pastor Wright dustup. And by that I mean, it's both politically effective and completely accurate.

This is from a big interview he did with the Chicago Tribune (via Politico) (edited to pull the words relevant to my point.. the in-between is worth reading though... about 1/2 way down the link)...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-obamafullwebmar16,0,6442594,print.story

Tribune: The issue of [former U.S. Rep.] Geraldine Ferraro's comments on the role your race has played in this campaign. Then comes the video that has comments that your pastor Jeremiah Wright has made. How are we to look at these, what's the best way to look at this and in what context do you put them to the American people?

Obama: Well, you know, I think they're separate issues, but there is a relationship. I think you're touching on something that's worth talking about.

[...]


I do think there is an overlap in the sense that there is a generational shift that is taking place and has constantly taken pace in our society. And Rev. Wright is somebody who came of age in the 60s. And so like a lot of African-American men of fierce intelligence coming up in the '60s he has a lot of the language and the memories and the baggage of those times. And I represent a different generation with just a different set of life experiences, and so see race relations in just a different set of terms than he does, as does Otis Moss, who is slightly younger than me. And so the question then for me becomes what's my relationship to that past?

You know, I can completely just disown it and say I don't understand it, but I do understand it. I understand the context with which he developed his views but also can still reject unequivocally. . .

Tribune: You reject his views, you won't reject the man. Is that it?

Obama: Yeah, exactly. And this is where the connection comes in. I mean, I do think that Geraldine Ferraro, the lens through which she looks at race, is different. . . . She's grown up in different times. The Queens that she grew up in is, I'm sure, a different place than it was then. Just as Chicago is a different place than it was then.

So part of my job is to see if I can help push the country into a different place with a different set of understandings. But as I said, it doesn't excuse what the reverend said, and I'm very troubled by it. And if, as I said, if I had heard those sermons, if I had been there when those sermons were taking place, I would have raised that with him, and if I had thought that that was the message being promoted on a consistent basis within that church, I don't think I could be a consistent part of it.

Politically, it's a great reply for a few reasons...

1) It's takes a high-road, almost sympathetic approach to the out-dated thinking of Wright and Ferraro
2) It's links the negativity of Wright TO Clinton via Ferarro
3) It's seperates himself from both Clinton-Ferraro and Wright
4) It links back to his previous campaign message of moving beyond the Vietnam-era politics that have divided us
5) It puts him on the same side of the issue of white people who want to move beyond the "affirmative action" era of race by making Wright's and GF's views look out-dated and old.
6) Objectively (ie, beyond the politics), it's a great reply because it's true. Wright's views and GF's views are a product of a different era, one where even feminists were often racists and where black men where fiercely connected to the racism all around them.

Here's a video with him touching on it during an interview on MSNBC...

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HonestChieffan
03-16-2008, 12:02 PM
He is more and more phoney every time he addresses the issue.

If he wants to be President, I dont care who utters the words "God Damn America", MY President will be offended, mad and hot as hell over it. This is our country and its damn sure time somebody has the balls to stand up and say enough is enough. Pussy footing around this thing has gotten to the point of being totally un acceptable.

America is not white, black, brown yellow, straight gay or what have you. Its America, its our country. And its a country we can and should all be proud of. Perfect? NO but By God, if I heard someone in a pulpit say what he said, I would not mealy mouth around it, if I were in the pew that preacher better be rady for a challenge from the pew right then and there.

People died in 1776 and evey generation since to give that man the right to say what he said. But no real American of any race, creed, or color can look me in they eye and say that those words dont burn deep in his or her gut.

It isnt race. It isnt color. It isnt perspective. Its not about who was a slave or who wasn't. Its about our Country. Its about pride. And its about doing the right thing. Doing the right thing has become so rare we condem those who do it and shower them with lables like liberal, facist, conservative, racist....we, yes WE should be ashamed.

jAZ
03-16-2008, 12:11 PM
If he wants to be President, I dont care who utters the words "God Damn America", MY President will be offended, mad and hot as hell over it. This is our country and its damn sure time somebody has the balls to stand up and say enough is enough.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html

"Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue."

America is not white, black, brown yellow, straight gay or what have you. Its America, its our country. And its a country we can and should all be proud of. [...]

It isnt race. It isnt color. It isnt perspective. Its not about who was a slave or who wasn't. Its about our Country. Its about pride. And its about doing the right thing. Doing the right thing has become so rare we condem those who do it and shower them with lables like liberal, facist, conservative, racist....we, yes WE should be ashamed.

http://www.librarian.net/dnc/speeches/obama.txt

"Yet even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spin masters and negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything goes. Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a conservative America -- there's the United States of America. There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America. The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America."

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You and Obama have a lot in common.

:D

Sully
03-16-2008, 07:04 PM
If played correctly, this potential powderkeg could become the opportunity for Obama to prove what he has said throughout this campaign about a new tone. A bridging of the gap, as it were. Of course, those who were enver going to vote for him anyway will still be as angry as ever with anything or anyone with a D behind their name, but for those with reasonable thoughtfulness, he could turn what could be a huge pitfall into a great moment. It'll be interesting to see if he can accomplish it. but what he said in your OP goes miles toward that end, IMO.

memyselfI
03-16-2008, 07:14 PM
He is more and more phoney every time he addresses the issue.

If he wants to be President, I dont care who utters the words "God Damn America", MY President will be offended, mad and hot as hell over it. This is our country and its damn sure time somebody has the balls to stand up and say enough is enough. Pussy footing around this thing has gotten to the point of being totally un acceptable.

America is not white, black, brown yellow, straight gay or what have you. Its America, its our country. And its a country we can and should all be proud of. Perfect? NO but By God, if I heard someone in a pulpit say what he said, I would not mealy mouth around it, if I were in the pew that preacher better be rady for a challenge from the pew right then and there.

People died in 1776 and evey generation since to give that man the right to say what he said. But no real American of any race, creed, or color can look me in they eye and say that those words dont burn deep in his or her gut.

It isnt race. It isnt color. It isnt perspective. Its not about who was a slave or who wasn't. Its about our Country. Its about pride. And its about doing the right thing. Doing the right thing has become so rare we condem those who do it and shower them with lables like liberal, facist, conservative, racist....we, yes WE should be ashamed.

Yes, he is and Juan Williams has been on every Fox Show there is just slamming the guy. I think Juan is worried that the notion of this type of rhetoric being acceptable to all Blacks is going to be widely sold by Baaarack as to not appear as radical and divisive as it truly is. He's out there crying foul. So are other black journalists.

Shame on Donna Brazille trying to present TUCC and Pastor Wright as being one of the more 'moderate' Black churches.

More videos like this and he'll be toast:

http://en.sevenload.com/videos/yV9UUVV/Barack-Obama-Hampton-University-June-5-2007

chiefforlife
03-16-2008, 08:19 PM
NO but By God, if I heard someone in a pulpit say what he said, I would not mealy mouth around it, if I were in the pew that preacher better be rady for a challenge from the pew right then and there.



Thats what Obama said...

Had he been in the pew when the Rev. said that, he would have spoken with him directly.

patteeu
03-17-2008, 08:48 AM
20 years, jAZ. 20 years. Obama had 20 years to sniff out the extremism in his pastor and he either failed to do it or he failed to do anything about it besides nod with the rest of the congregation. And when he was nodding or discussing the possibility of having to distance himself from his mentor at some point in the future, it's impossible to know if he really agreed with Wright or if he was just fronting for a stamp of authenticity from his south side base. There is no perfect response when all responses imply something bad about you.

patteeu
03-17-2008, 08:51 AM
If played correctly, this potential powderkeg could become the opportunity for Obama to prove what he has said throughout this campaign about a new tone. A bridging of the gap, as it were. Of course, those who were enver going to vote for him anyway will still be as angry as ever with anything or anyone with a D behind their name, but for those with reasonable thoughtfulness, he could turn what could be a huge pitfall into a great moment. It'll be interesting to see if he can accomplish it. but what he said in your OP goes miles toward that end, IMO.

Perfect plan. Associate with racists (or at the very least, the resentful, overly race-conscious) for 20 years so that when the time is right you can use them as a prop in your racial healing play. Brilliant!

BTW, while it's true that those with a D behind their name have no chance of earning my vote this year, that's certainly not true of memyselfi. And by the same token, the people, like you, who are going to eat this up are dedicated Obamists whose faith wouldn't be shaken if Obama were caught red handed high-fiving Hugo Chavez after his "smell of sulfur" speech at the United Nations.

Sully
03-17-2008, 09:21 AM
Perfect plan. Associate with racists (or at the very least, the resentful, overly race-conscious) for 20 years so that when the time is right you can use them as a prop in your racial healing play. Brilliant!

BTW, while it's true that those with a D behind their name have no chance of earning my vote this year, that's certainly not true of memyselfi. And by the same token, the people, like you, who are going to eat this up are dedicated Obamists whose faith wouldn't be shaken if Obama were caught red handed high-fiving Hugo Chavez after his "smell of sulfur" speech at the United Nations.

You need to make up your mind.
You said you don't believe Wright to be a racist 2 dys ago, and are now calling him a racist.

patteeu
03-17-2008, 09:43 AM
You need to make up your mind.
You said you don't believe Wright to be a racist 2 dys ago, and are now calling him a racist.

No I'm not (edit: or at least that wasn't my intent even though I can see why you'd read it that way). I think he's resentful and overly race conscious. He may be racist, but right now I'm of the opinion that he doesn't hate all white people. He's probably OK with white socialists/liberals and segments of the white underclass, if I had to take a guess.

Edit: While I don't think he's a full blown racist, I do think he preaches victimhood and a form of separatism though.

HonestChieffan
03-17-2008, 09:50 AM
Yes, he is and Juan Williams has been on every Fox Show there is just slamming the guy. I think Juan is worried that the notion of this type of rhetoric being acceptable to all Blacks is going to be widely sold by Baaarack as to not appear as radical and divisive as it truly is. He's out there crying foul. So are other black journalists.

Shame on Donna Brazille trying to present TUCC and Pastor Wright as being one of the more 'moderate' Black churches.

More videos like this and he'll be toast:

http://en.sevenload.com/videos/yV9UUVV/Barack-Obama-Hampton-University-June-5-2007

Thats the backlash that is more likely in the general election. Blacks will not have this sort of thing be positioned as they norm.

ROYC75
03-17-2008, 10:09 AM
Obama knew how Wright was to start with, from what I have heard, this isn't the 1st time Wright has use the race card, the black man vs the white man in his church sermons. For Obama to claim he has never heard of this before is nothing but a cover up.

Sad part is we are stuck with lousy canidates, again. None of the 3 are worth voting for......

banyon
03-17-2008, 10:15 AM
He is more and more phoney every time he addresses the issue.

If he wants to be President, I dont care who utters the words "God Damn America", MY President will be offended, mad and hot as hell over it. This is our country and its damn sure time somebody has the balls to stand up and say enough is enough. Pussy footing around this thing has gotten to the point of being totally un acceptable.

America is not white, black, brown yellow, straight gay or what have you. Its America, its our country. And its a country we can and should all be proud of. Perfect? NO but By God, if I heard someone in a pulpit say what he said, I would not mealy mouth around it, if I were in the pew that preacher better be rady for a challenge from the pew right then and there.

People died in 1776 and evey generation since to give that man the right to say what he said. But no real American of any race, creed, or color can look me in they eye and say that those words dont burn deep in his or her gut.

It isnt race. It isnt color. It isnt perspective. Its not about who was a slave or who wasn't. Its about our Country. Its about pride. And its about doing the right thing. Doing the right thing has become so rare we condem those who do it and shower them with lables like liberal, facist, conservative, racist....we, yes WE should be ashamed.

This nonsense wasn't retracted after it was definitively proven that Obama did in fact denounce the Pastor's comments.

Of course it was never really about your real outrage was it, "honest"chieffan?

patteeu
03-17-2008, 10:48 AM
This nonsense wasn't retracted after it was definitively proven that Obama did in fact denounce the Pastor's comments.

Of course it was never really about your real outrage was it, "honest"chieffan?

I'd draw a distinction between a politically opportunistic denouncement after 20 years of non-denouncement and an immediate denouncement when political considerations weren't nearly as obvious. HonestChieffan is suggesting he expects the latter, Obama did the former.

banyon
03-17-2008, 10:53 AM
I'd draw a distinction between a politically opportunistic denouncement after 20 years of non-denouncement and an immediate denouncement when political considerations weren't nearly as obvious. HonestChieffan is suggesting he expects the latter, Obama did the former.

He expects Obama to hop into a DeLorean and somehow issue public denouncements for things that happened when he wasn't in the public consciousness, had no access to media outlets, and the issue hadn't been raised?

HonestChieffan
03-17-2008, 10:58 AM
What I would have liked to have seen was a denouncement of the man, not just weasle words. What I would like to hear is Obama actually say he feels that the good pastor is what he is...a hate spewing out of control misguided man who clearly is anti American. What Id like to hear is Obama say something that makes me feel like he is a Pro-American candidate.

Somehow, he and his ilk feel a need to avoid saying I love my country and I will stand up to people like Writght and not accept that sort of behavior.

patteeu
03-17-2008, 10:59 AM
He expects Obama to hop into a DeLorean and somehow issue public denouncements for things that happened when he wasn't in the public consciousness, had no access to media outlets, and the issue hadn't been raised?

Obama is pretty clear that he never confronted his pastor about these comments either publicly or privately, before he started his campaign for President. Obama, absurdly (or more likely, deceitfully, through the use of parsed language) denies that he was aware of these comments prior to his POTUS campaign.

jettio
03-17-2008, 11:07 AM
What I would have liked to have seen was a denouncement of the man, not just weasle words. What I would like to hear is Obama actually say he feels that the good pastor is what he is...a hate spewing out of control misguided man who clearly is anti American. What Id like to hear is Obama say something that makes me feel like he is a Pro-American candidate.

Somehow, he and his ilk feel a need to avoid saying I love my country and I will stand up to people like Writght and not accept that sort of behavior.

He could hire a hit man and have Reverend Wright whacked and your prejudiced azz will still be criticizing Obama.

Quit being a hypocrite.

What you would like. Wotta joke. Obama could hire you to be his consultant and do exactly what you now say he should do, and when it comes down to it, you would still be were you were when Obama announced his candidacy, unwilling to pull the lever for him.

If Herm Edwards' Chiefs become a playoff contender you will keep criticizing and doubting until he wins a Super Bowl.

If Obama wins the election and does a good job as President according to 65% of the public, you will still be talking bad about him.

Bootlegged
03-17-2008, 11:13 AM
Racist who hates his country. The pastor too.

patteeu
03-17-2008, 11:21 AM
Racist who hates his country. The pastor too.

LMAO

tiptap
03-17-2008, 01:16 PM
It isn't news to me. It isn't news to my pastor when I was a child. Old Stainback talked about when he was a teenager and went and sat in the back of the "negro" church and after some initial laughter they got the sermon about God would deliver their people. I mean this is straight from slavery. And yes it may be time to tone some of this down. But when you consider that anyone my age would have grown up in a time when Civil Rights was only a dream. You might not be willing to drop that voice even as the younger and benefited young blacks see the divide more as economic and not racial as they found success. It is the same baby boom generation that the younger generation is looking to supplant. It is just that there was an initial divide based upon race for that group. And still a source of inspiration and religious reveling.
__________________

I said this comment 376 not acceptable quote thread. Obama's comment point to this divide between younger blacks and those of the older generation, between economic view vs a racial one. And just like as a Protestant I was often subjected to strong condemnation of the US for transgression of TOLERATING gays, sex, gambling, women's rights, atheism, humanistic philosophy, science concerning evolution. Never did members on the right, who frequently courted the talking heads of the religious right, distance themselves. I see no difference. What difference I do see is Obama wishing to address the question on economics and still having living representatives that lived in a time when Civil Rights legislation didn't exist. period. And that is the perspective they grew up with.

tiptap
03-17-2008, 01:22 PM
Light this up until the fall. When people start putting Texas' Hagee on the tube and his indignations about the US, things will even out pretty quickly. McCain will be having to distance himself with the same tickings about well Hagee and I don't agree on everything but I needed that base. As opposed to Obama who didn't have to have an understanding of his base and their inflammatory rhetoric of religion.

chiefforlife
03-17-2008, 04:15 PM
20 years, jAZ. 20 years. Obama had 20 years to sniff out the extremism in his pastor and he either failed to do it or he failed to do anything about it besides nod with the rest of the congregation. And when he was nodding or discussing the possibility of having to distance himself from his mentor at some point in the future, it's impossible to know if he really agreed with Wright or if he was just fronting for a stamp of authenticity from his south side base. There is no perfect response when all responses imply something bad about you.

I have been and still am an Obama supporter but I have to say this really bothers me...

patteeu
03-17-2008, 04:44 PM
I have been and still am an Obama supporter but I have to say this really bothers me...

Good for you. I don't think it should necessarily be a showstopper for someone who agrees with Obama's liberal politics, but for anyone who is attracted to Obama because of his self-righteous claims of favoring a new kind of unifying politics, buyer beware.

BucEyedPea
03-17-2008, 04:47 PM
Light this up until the fall. When people start putting Texas' Hagee on the tube and his indignations about the US, things will even out pretty quickly. McCain will be having to distance himself with the same tickings about well Hagee and I don't agree on everything but I needed that base. As opposed to Obama who didn't have to have an understanding of his base and their inflammatory rhetoric of religion.

Let's hope the powers behind the media do so too. These guys can ruin people or protect. Let's hope it's not just CNN and major networks for Obama and then Fox for McCain. Get the picture?

Thig Lyfe
03-17-2008, 04:50 PM
Meh.

Ferraro =/= Clinton
Wright =/= Obama

Whatevs.

Bootlegged
03-17-2008, 04:59 PM
If you don't think Obama is a Muslim plant, then you aren't thinking.

jAZ
03-17-2008, 05:08 PM
If you don't think Obama is a Muslim plant, then you aren't thinking.
Thanks Geraldo.

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Bootlegged
03-17-2008, 05:35 PM
Thanks Geraldo.

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No, thank you for backing Hussein.

Baby Lee
03-18-2008, 07:07 AM
And just like as a Protestant I was often subjected to strong condemnation of the US for transgression of TOLERATING gays, sex, gambling, women's rights, atheism, humanistic philosophy, science concerning evolution. Never did members on the right, who frequently courted the talking heads of the religious right, distance themselves. I see no difference.
Actually, I do see a difference. A lot of the things that the right are railing against are openly and explicitly in opposition to their religious values. Wright is railing against suppossed conspiracies such as white men creating AIDS and inventing crack to keep the blacks down.
Both are fomenting resentments, but at least those you were subjected to were harboring resentment to those who openly resented them right back.