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View Full Version : Obama to give his Kennedy-esque speech on religion and race


jAZ
03-17-2008, 02:14 PM
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Obama_plans_major_race_speech_tomorrow.html

March 17, 2008
Categories: Barack Obama

Obama plans major race speech tomorrow


Barack Obama will give a major speech on "the larger issue of race in this campaign," he told reporters in Monaca, PA just now.

He was pressed there, as he has been at recent appearances, on statements by his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

"I am going to be talking about not just Reverend Wright, but the larger issue of race in this campaign," he said.

He added that he would "talk about how some of these issues are perceived from within the black church issue for example," he said.

He also briefly defended Wright from the image that has come through in a handful of repeatedly televised clips from recent Wright sermons.

"The caricature thatís being painted of him is not accurate," he said.

The speech could offer Obama an opportunity to move past the controversy over his pastor, and to turn the conversation to a topic he'd rather focus on: his Christian faith. But the speech also guarantees that the Wright story will continue to dominate political headlines.

Mitt Romney's attempt directly to address his Mormonism last year never decisively put the issue to rest for some voters.

Obama's schedule puts him in Philadelphia tomorrow.

HolmeZz
03-17-2008, 02:17 PM
We'll have to see it before it's really 'Kennedy-esque', but I think this is a very good decision. There are a litany of things he can talk about, not the least of which is the fact he was raised by his white mother and white grandparents. He can tie this all into a generational discussion and just how much times have changed in the last 40 years.

HonestChieffan
03-17-2008, 02:27 PM
Well hes had every opportunity to dry lab what he needs to say, get the spinners to work, and he knows he has screwed it up so far...

What I do not understand about these people...Repub or Demo...is why on earth they assume the public is so dumb as to wait for some over wordsmithed explaination when its pretty clear if he was a member for 20 yers, to deny he knew the preacher was nutjob is stupid. If he didnt know then Obamas as nuts as Wright and his crazy leftie wife is there with him. Whats next? Trot out Oprah?

Have you noticed Reverand Al and Reverand jesse have stayed away from this burn pile?




And the whole while, he put his butt in a box by denying he was ever there when said nutjob went haywire...right. So now hes gonna do a song and dance to prove he is a good christian...but not sound too Christian or he will piss off the lefties who dont like religions. In the meantime, someone somewhere will prove he lied about not being there thus making this new snow job a failed event again.

Hillary and her folks dont have to do sickum. McCains guys can just sit back and watch. Obama is unraveling under the direction of inexperienced and sorry PR folks.

I can hear Johnny Cash...Down down down in a burning ring of fire......

penguinz
03-17-2008, 02:32 PM
Well hes had every opportunity to dry lab what he needs to say, get the spinners to work, and he knows he has screwed it up so far...

What I do not understand about these people...Repub or Demo...is why on earth they assume the public is so dumb as to wait for some over wordsmithed explaination when its pretty clear if he was a member for 20 yers, to deny he knew the preacher was nutjob is stupid. If he didnt know then Obamas as nuts as Wright and his crazy leftie wife is there with him. Whats next? Trot out Oprah?

Have you noticed Reverand Al and Reverand jesse have stayed away from this burn pile?




And the whole while, he put his butt in a box by denying he was ever there when said nutjob went haywire...right. So now hes gonna do a song and dance to prove he is a good christian...but not sound too Christian or he will piss off the lefties who dont like religions. In the meantime, someone somewhere will prove he lied about not being there thus making this new snow job a failed event again.

Hillary and her folks dont have to do sickum. McCains guys can just sit back and watch. Obama is unraveling under the direction of inexperienced and sorry PR folks.

I can hear Johnny Cash...Down down down in a burning ring of fire......
Who is the nutjob?

jAZ
03-17-2008, 02:32 PM
...to deny he knew the preacher was nutjob is stupid.
Actually, you aren't going to like this, but... he's denying your accusation entirely.

"The caricature thatís being painted of him is not accurate,"

Let your hate fly.

vailpass
03-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Actually, you aren't going to like this, but... he's denying your accusation entirely.

"The caricature thatís being painted of him is not accurate,"

Let your hate fly.

That last line is deliciously ironic.

stevieray
03-17-2008, 02:46 PM
Kennedy-esque? just more proof the boomers process of maturation has not and can not proceed past the 60's...I honestly think they don't know who they are without creating chaos in their lives.

patteeu
03-17-2008, 02:48 PM
If he makes it a sister soulja moment, he'll alienate a lot of blacks. If he doesn't, he'll perpetuate the problems he's been having for the past few days. He's got a golden tongue and he'll surely fool a lot of people (most of them are already firmly indoctrinated into the Obamacult already though), but I don't see how he can win many skeptics over with this speech. But who knows, maybe I give the voting public too much credit.

mlyonsd
03-17-2008, 02:51 PM
Hyped up thread title aside, the Obama camp can sure run a great campaign.

Using the Wright flap as a setup for Obama to give a preacher like speech on race/religion is pure genius.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict the Bobots will completely love the speech and all of it's contents.

HolmeZz
03-17-2008, 02:51 PM
Kennedy-esque? just more proof the boomers process of maturation has not and can not proceed past the 60's...I honestly think they don't know who they are without creating chaos in their lives.

Is jAZ a baby boomer?

King_Chief_Fan
03-17-2008, 02:56 PM
Kennedy-esque? just more proof the boomers process of maturation has not and can not proceed past the 60's...I honestly think they don't know who they are without creating chaos in their lives.

says the hippie with the VW van in his avatar:D

stevieray
03-17-2008, 03:00 PM
says the hippie with the VW van in his avatar:D

ROFL touche!

1965 CHEVROLET G10 (compeltely done in Chiefs theme)

* no curtains...:)

stevieray
03-17-2008, 03:04 PM
Hyped up thread title aside, the Obama camp can sure run a great campaign.

Using the Wright flap as a setup for Obama to give a preacher like speech on race/religion is pure genius.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict the Bobots will completely love the speech and all of it's contents.

notice when one radical says God hates, death is wished upon him, when another says God damn..well he's just a misunderstood "crazy uncle"


you can't choose your uncle, but you can choose your pastor...all in all, what a disservice he's done to his children...

dirk digler
03-17-2008, 03:08 PM
Hyped up thread title aside, the Obama camp can sure run a great campaign.

Using the Wright flap as a setup for Obama to give a preacher like speech on race/religion is pure genius.



That is an astute observation mylonsd. I started thinking the other day that possibly the Obama campaign pushed the Wright story out to the media to take care of it.

On Friday, he went around to all the major Chicago newspapers and answered all their questions about Rezko and he got a clean bill of sale review for it.

So during the slow run up to Pennsylvania he has killed 2 potentially harmful stories.

jAZ
03-17-2008, 03:13 PM
Is jAZ a baby boomer?
My mom is... does that count?

Pitt Gorilla
03-17-2008, 03:15 PM
If he makes it a sister soulja moment, he'll alienate a lot of blacks. If he doesn't, he'll perpetuate the problems he's been having for the past few days. He's got a golden tongue and he'll surely fool a lot of people (most of them are already firmly indoctrinated into the Obamacult already though), but I don't see how he can win many skeptics over with this speech. But who knows, maybe I give the voting public too much credit.What will he "fool" people about?

Cave Johnson
03-17-2008, 03:21 PM
My prediction, he announces his support for reparations. Take it to the bank.

HolmeZz
03-17-2008, 03:23 PM
What will he "fool" people about?

His deep-rooted hatred of white people, which totally isn't conflicted by the fact he was raised by his white mother and white grandparents or Pat's theory that Bill Ayers is his 'mentor'.

jettio
03-17-2008, 03:24 PM
The hidden irony is that the prejudiced people that pretend great offense at insults to America, have no genuine respect for their fellow citizens who give Obama a hearing and decide that he is the person they want to support.

Obama is likely to do a good job and it won't have to do with spin or tricking people, it will be because he has an honest and informed take on the subject.

I do think that Hannity and the wingtards would have preferred to keep their gun-powder dry until the fall before the general. It may be a break to deal with these videos of the pastor now when there is a lot of time between contests.

It may also be something that Hillary and McCain would have a hard time trying to make hay of themselves.

Hopefully when it is all said and done, the prejudiced folks who think they have discovered the ultimate weapon will be disappointed.

BucEyedPea
03-17-2008, 03:30 PM
My prediction, he announces his support for reparations. Take it to the bank.

Whoooa! I hope you're not being serious. I would think that would hurt him.
I wouln't wanna hear that.

HolmeZz
03-17-2008, 03:35 PM
Whoooa! I hope you're not being serious. I would think that would hurt him.
I wouln't wanna hear that.

Yeah, he was joking.

BucEyedPea
03-17-2008, 03:36 PM
Yeah, he was joking.

Well, I kinda thought but you never know on the net without tone of voice.

patteeu
03-17-2008, 03:55 PM
What will he "fool" people about?

That he didn't know about his pastor's radical views and that when he found out about them he repudiated them fully. And that this whole episode doesn't call his character and judgment into question in a way that can't be sidestepped by a speech.

patteeu
03-17-2008, 03:57 PM
My prediction, he announces his support for reparations. Take it to the bank.

I wonder if there's any video of Wright sermons on the reparations issue. If so, that will be a big hit.

ClevelandBronco
03-17-2008, 04:59 PM
My prediction, he announces his support for reparations. Take it to the bank.

Quit teasing. There's no way I could hope for something that destructive to Sen. Obama.

Bootlegged
03-17-2008, 05:20 PM
So - if nobody knew him... and the news broke that there was a candidate for President who;

-has a father who is Muslim
-attends a radical church that preaches hate against America/da white man
-had the names "hussein" and "obama"
-was against Iraq war

would anyone think twice?

Adept Havelock
03-17-2008, 05:24 PM
So - if nobody knew him... and the news broke that there was a candidate for President who;

-has a father who is Muslim
-attends a radical church that preaches hate against America/da white man
-had the names "hussein" and "obama"
-was against Iraq war

would anyone think twice?

Item 1) Don't care. America is supposed to be about what you do, not what your daddy did. (thanks CB)
Item 2) A concern, but not for me as I won't be voting for the Dem candidate.
Item 3) Don't care. Names are a silly thing to get hung up on, IMO.
Item 4) No problem for me. I've opposed the movement of resources from stabilizing Afghanistan to Iraq since the saber-rattling started in '02.

Bootlegged
03-17-2008, 05:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY28l6HoKww

vailpass
03-17-2008, 05:31 PM
So - if nobody knew him... and the news broke that there was a candidate for President who;

-has a father who is Muslim
-attends a radical church that preaches hate against America/da white man
-had the names "hussein" and "obama"
-was against Iraq war

would anyone think twice?

But he offers hope and a new day.

Disclaimer:details to be disclosed at a later date, all terms subject to change when confronted by reality, past performance not necessarily an indicator of future gains, negative equity will be applied to loan balance, ask me no questions I'll tell you no lies, down with whitey, may cause genital warts and anal leakage, do not operate heavy machinery within 2 hours of being hypnotized at his speech, a chicken in every pot, sponsored by Harpo, don't look behind the curtain!, Act now and we'll include the amazing sphincter tingler II at no additional charge.

jAZ
03-17-2008, 05:39 PM
Item 1) Don't care. America is about what you do, not what your daddy did.
Item 2) A concern, but not for me as I won't be voting for the Dem candidate.
Item 3) Don't care. Names are a silly thing to get hung up on, IMO.
Item 4) No problem for me. I've opposed the movement of resources from stabilizing Afghanistan to Iraq since the saber-rattling started in '02.
Why give his post serious consideration. He's not going to give your's the same. Think about who you are talking to.

Bootlegged
03-17-2008, 05:42 PM
Why give his post serious consideration. He's not going to give your's the same. Think about who you are talking to.

Is it going to bother you when you are lying in your bunkbed tonight, staring at your ceiling poster of Osama waiting for your girl to fall asleep so you can be "with" the person you dream of all day?

memyselfI
03-17-2008, 07:07 PM
Hyped up thread title aside, the Obama camp can sure run a great campaign.

Using the Wright flap as a setup for Obama to give a preacher like speech on race/religion is pure genius.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict the Bobots will completely love the speech and all of it's contents.

He could stand there and flick boogers at the camera and they'd be positively orgasmic. :D

a1na2
03-17-2008, 07:15 PM
Too little, too late.

patteeu
03-18-2008, 05:31 AM
So - if nobody knew him... and the news broke that there was a candidate for President who;

-has a father who is Muslim
-attends a radical church that preaches hate against America/da white man
-had the names "hussein" and "obama"
-was against Iraq war

would anyone think twice?

Is he married to a woman who, prior to a few weeks ago, hadn't been able to be proud of the US for her entire adult life?

HolmeZz
03-18-2008, 09:50 AM
Excellent speech. Took a set of thatchers.

Hoover
03-18-2008, 09:51 AM
I wasn't impressed. If he's not in a huge stadium packed with people he's not as good.

Logical
03-18-2008, 10:09 AM
Was it a Kennedyesque speech, not quite.

Was it clearly what was needed to re-energize his base quite likely.

Did he explain the distance between him and Pastor Wright's more hyperbolic comments while explaining his personal relationship and its continued maintenance of the friendship.

He explained how he felt Rev Wrights statement were inappropriate and yet showed that he could no more repudiate Jeremiah Wright than he could his white grandmother who sometimes made racial comments that were inappropriate and made him cringe.

He talked about the justified outrage that both blacks and white feel over injustices due to race and that this is not just going to instantly disappear.

He managed to restore the theme of hope and change as the important issue he is presenting, and how he wants to bring that message to the those feeling and suffering from those injustices.

I believe he sold, and sold it big time. It won't convince those like patteeu and memyselfi that never intended to vote for him or the closet racists like we find in bootlegged and others on this very thread, but he will bring the waiverers back into the fold for the most part.

Just as the pundits are saying on the network a really excellent speech.

HonestChieffan
03-18-2008, 10:11 AM
Not good enough to plug the hole in the ship. Wise PR guys will tell you first in a situation like this, consider saying nothing. Usually thats best decision. If you have to address an issue, do it once and do it well. and Never ever go back and re adress it. So far Obama has failed on every account making the issue worse, making himself look like hes very uncomfortable, and giving more and more ammo to the opposition.

He cannot deny or change he was a member of this church for 20 years.
He Used his church membership to defuse the goofy muslim charge.
He has held up his dedication to the church to further support his Christianity claim with his wedding and kids baptism.
He has used his relationship with Wright to gain his voter base in Chicago since the start of his career.
He has said they are close, like an Uncle.

Now, after all that it comes out that Wright is a loonie of the highest order. Now you may say all black churches have loonies but we all know better. mayor Cleaver is a great local example of a fantastic minister who anyone would enjoy hearing. Not even Jesse Jackson has come to help with Baracks issue..that is a huge signal.

Like it or not, Obama has lost momentum, he has eroded his base of conservative blacks, moderate democrat white or black, and infuriated the great number of people who are just not to keen on seeing our country and what we stand for ripped to shreads, accused of creating the Aids virus, and passing the three striks law so we can fill the prison system with poor black folk.

Sorry Obama, your pitch aint gonna fix whats broke.

dirk digler
03-18-2008, 10:17 AM
I haven't heard the speech I have just read the text that was put online but everything that I have been reading online from people that watched it he really nailed it and should put this whole thing to rest.

I will wait to see if that actually happens.

beer bacon
03-18-2008, 10:17 AM
Not good enough to plug the hole in the ship. Wise PR guys will tell you first in a situation like this, consider saying nothing. Usually thats best decision. If you have to address an issue, do it once and do it well. and Never ever go back and re adress it. So far Obama has failed on every account making the issue worse, making himself look like hes very uncomfortable, and giving more and more ammo to the opposition.

He cannot deny or change he was a member of this church for 20 years.
He Used his church membership to defuse the goofy muslim charge.
He has held up his dedication to the church to further support his Christianity claim with his wedding and kids baptism.
He has used his relationship with Wright to gain his voter base in Chicago since the start of his career.
He has said they are close, like an Uncle.

Now, after all that it comes out that Wright is a loonie of the highest order. Now you may say all black churches have loonies but we all know better. mayor Cleaver is a great local example of a fantastic minister who anyone would enjoy hearing. Not even Jesse Jackson has come to help with Baracks issue..that is a huge signal.

Like it or not, Obama has lost momentum, he has eroded his base of conservative blacks, moderate democrat white or black, and infuriated the great number of people who are just not to keen on seeing our country and what we stand for ripped to shreads, accused of creating the Aids virus, and passing the three striks law so we can fill the prison system with poor black folk.

Sorry Obama, your pitch aint gonna fix whats broke.

Welcome to the past.

Logical
03-18-2008, 10:18 AM
One other thing he did, he got to give an almost hour speech on a national stage that will boost his campaign effort and bring him to the attention of many people who did not previously see the oratory skills of Barrack Obama.

patteeu
03-18-2008, 10:23 AM
Was it a Kennedyesque speech, not quite.

Was it clearly what was needed to re-energize his base quite likely.

Did he explain the distance between him and Pastor Wright's more hyperbolic comments while explaining his personal relationship and its continued maintenance of the friendship.

He explained how he felt Rev Wrights statement were inappropriate and yet showed that he could no more repudiate Jeremiah Wright than he could his white grandmother who sometimes made racial comments that were inappropriate and made him cringe.

He talked about the justified outrage that both blacks and white feel over injustices due to race and that this is not just going to instantly disappear.

He managed to restore the theme of hope and change as the important issue he is presenting, and how he wants to bring that message to the those feeling and suffering from those injustices.

I believe he sold, and sold it big time. It won't convince those like patteeu and memyselfi that never intended to vote for him or the closet racists like we find in bootlegged and others on this very thread, but he will bring the waiverers back into the fold for the most part.

Just as the pundits are saying on the network a really excellent speech.

Did he admit that he was aware of Jeremiah Wright's most radical comments throughout the 20 years of their association? No

Did he admit that he embraced Jeremiah Wright's church for decades in order to advance his political career even though he didn't agree with Wrights racial outrage? No

Were these omissions believable? No

HolmeZz
03-18-2008, 10:32 AM
Does Fox News not know how to discuss race? I haven't seen them do any commentary on the speech yet.

I guess they only address it when they get to play clips of Reverend Wright.

NewChief
03-18-2008, 10:35 AM
Did he admit that he embraced Jeremiah Wright's church for decades in order to advance his political career even though he didn't agree with Wrights racial outrage?


It's such a shame that he decided to cut that part of his speech. I'm sure it would have been a crowd pleaser.
:rolleyes:

HonestChieffan
03-18-2008, 10:37 AM
"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."

In one of Obama's many TV interviews doesn't he answer this questions NO.

At least he's like all the other politicians - when they get caught - they fess up.

DaKCMan AP
03-18-2008, 10:41 AM
Not good enough to plug the hole in the ship. Wise PR guys will tell you first in a situation like this, consider saying nothing. Usually thats best decision. If you have to address an issue, do it once and do it well. and Never ever go back and re adress it. So far Obama has failed on every account making the issue worse, making himself look like hes very uncomfortable, and giving more and more ammo to the opposition.

He cannot deny or change he was a member of this church for 20 years.
He Used his church membership to defuse the goofy muslim charge.
He has held up his dedication to the church to further support his Christianity claim with his wedding and kids baptism.
He has used his relationship with Wright to gain his voter base in Chicago since the start of his career.
He has said they are close, like an Uncle.

Now, after all that it comes out that Wright is a loonie of the highest order. Now you may say all black churches have loonies but we all know better. mayor Cleaver is a great local example of a fantastic minister who anyone would enjoy hearing. Not even Jesse Jackson has come to help with Baracks issue..that is a huge signal.

Like it or not, Obama has lost momentum, he has eroded his base of conservative blacks, moderate democrat white or black, and infuriated the great number of people who are just not to keen on seeing our country and what we stand for ripped to shreads, accused of creating the Aids virus, and passing the three striks law so we can fill the prison system with poor black folk.

Sorry Obama, your pitch aint gonna fix whats broke.

Excellent analysis by an unbiased observer. :spock:

HolmeZz
03-18-2008, 10:42 AM
In one of Obama's many TV interviews doesn't he answer this questions NO.

No. He said he had personally heard some things that were controversial, but nothing near as over the top as the clips that have been getting played.

Cave Johnson
03-18-2008, 10:42 AM
HCF and Pat didn't like the speech? Color me shocked.

patteeu
03-18-2008, 10:46 AM
"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."

In one of Obama's many TV interviews doesn't he answer this questions NO.

At least he's like all the other politicians - when they get caught - they fess up.

He didn't really admit anything though. He "admitted" that he'd seen controversial sermons, but he claimed that he'd never heard anything as controversial as that which has been in the news this past week. He's drawing a distinction that I find hard to believe between acceptable levels of controversy (that he admits witnessing) and unacceptable levels that would have presumably sent him into immediate confrontation mode (which he claims he never witnessed). He's giving the impression that he's being forthcoming without going far enough to justify criticisms of him on the basis of the outlandish things we've all seen from Jeremiah Wright.

patteeu
03-18-2008, 10:49 AM
HCF and Pat didn't like the speech? Color me shocked.

It shouldn't surprise you since I pointed out the catch-22 nature of this problem before he even gave the speech. I'm sure his uncritical fans are swooning over his soothing words though.

HolmeZz
03-18-2008, 10:57 AM
Did you really sit and watch Obama speak for a whole hour, Pat? I'm impressed.

patteeu
03-18-2008, 11:05 AM
Did you really sit and watch Obama speak for a whole hour, Pat? I'm impressed.

I did. I thought it was a good speech. It would have been better if it hadn't been given under the current circumstances and if the laundry list of less-than-specific socialist government initiatives to solve our "social justice" problems hadn't been tacked onto the end of it.

If Harold Ford Jr. or Colin Powell had given this speech instead of someone tainted by 20 years of close voluntary association with a guy who Obama, himself, says is filled with unacceptable resentments (to put it politely), it would have been more powerful, IMO. As it is, it looks like damage control and opportunistic image shaping. At least that's how it comes across to me.

StcChief
03-18-2008, 11:06 AM
But he offers hope and a new day.

Disclaimer:details to be disclosed at a later date, all terms subject to change when confronted by reality, past performance not necessarily an indicator of future gains, negative equity will be applied to loan balance, ask me no questions I'll tell you no lies, down with whitey, may cause genital warts and anal leakage, do not operate heavy machinery within 2 hours of being hypnotized at his speech, a chicken in every pot, sponsored by Harpo, don't look behind the curtain!, Act now and we'll include the amazing sphincter tingler II at no additional charge.
ROFL LMAO If it wasn't so true.

jAZ
03-18-2008, 11:34 AM
To put it simply, I think the speech was historic, but the media will decide how politically impactful and effecitve it will be.

If they pull out headlines and soundbites "Obama: Constitution stained by 'sin of slavery'" or "Obama: Rev. Wright is family to me"... then it won't do much.

But if they take notice of the fact that he (maybe for the first time at such a high profile) acknowledged the very real issue of a 40-year racial stalemate, how welfare made things worse, the resentment by many blue-color whites toward affirmative action and the need for blacks and whites both to see things beyond a zero sum game... it will help.

If it works politically, it will be the defining moment of the campaign. If not, I think it will be studied as part of history.

HonestChieffan
03-18-2008, 11:44 AM
To put it simply, I think the speech was historic, but the media will decide how politically impactful and effecitve it will be.

If they pull out headlines and soundbites "Obama: Constitution stained by 'sin of slavery'" or "Obama: Rev. Wright is family to me"... then it won't do much.

But if they take notice of the fact that he (maybe for the first time at such a high profile) acknowledged the very real issue of a 40-year racial stalemate, how welfare made things worse, the resentment by many blue-color whites toward affirmative action and the need for blacks and whites both to see things beyond a zero sum game... it will help.

If it works politically, it will be the defining moment of the campaign. If not, I think it will be studied as part of history.

So you give no credit to Civil rights leaders, black or white, who have labored on this issue since King? God man, please tell me that you didnt just say what you said.

jAZ
03-18-2008, 11:45 AM
So you give no credit to Civil rights leaders, black or white, who have labored on this issue since King? God man, please tell me that you didnt just say what you said.
:spock:

|Zach|
03-18-2008, 11:46 AM
ROFLROFL

Logical
03-18-2008, 12:28 PM
Did he admit that he was aware of Jeremiah Wright's most radical comments throughout the 20 years of their association? No

Did he admit that he embraced Jeremiah Wright's church for decades in order to advance his political career even though he didn't agree with Wrights racial outrage? No

Were these omissions believable? No

Shocking, he did not self-destruct his campaign to please patteeu. Man this is really going to set him back, NOT.

alanm
03-18-2008, 12:32 PM
He didn't really admit anything though. He "admitted" that he'd seen controversial sermons, but he claimed that he'd never heard anything as controversial as that which has been in the news this past week. He's drawing a distinction that I find hard to believe between acceptable levels of controversy (that he admits witnessing) and unacceptable levels that would have presumably sent him into immediate confrontation mode (which he claims he never witnessed). He's giving the impression that he's being forthcoming without going far enough to justify criticisms of him on the basis of the outlandish things we've all seen from Jeremiah Wright.
If he admitted he sat and saw controversial sermons over the years why then did he keep coming back?
I ain't buying it and I doubt anyone but his followers will. :shake:

alanm
03-18-2008, 12:39 PM
To expound further it's like saying that I go to a church that espouses Klu Klux Klan rhetoric from the Pastor. I don't agree with what he says but I keep going for 20 years since he's a family friend. Yeah that would fly. :spock:

dirk digler
03-18-2008, 12:49 PM
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/341390.aspx

Christian Broadcasting Network (700 Club) lauds Obama speech<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

We won't know for awhile how voters view Barack Obama's speech today on race relations but The Brody File saw it as a HUGE positive for Obama and a successful turning point for the future of his campaign. The Obama campaign tells me he told high level staffers on Saturday that he wanted to do this speech. He ended up writing it himself on Sunday and Monday and then finished it up this morning.

With all those American flags behind him, the background was very "State of the Union." It was very presidential and Obama looked like and sounded like a President in the speech.

There were a number of factors that made the speech work. First of all, he didn't just devote a couple paragraphs to Pastor Wright. He wove him throughout the entire speech. It came across as a masterful stroke because he didn't minimize the controversy and yet at the same time was able to explain how Wright's comments fit into the larger "anger" issue within the black community.

In addition, as it relates to the Pastor Wright controversy, I thought the key lines were these:
"For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely."

The reason this part was important was because Obama was able to insulate himself on the authenticity issue. In other words, this was a pretty full mea culpa. He admitted that he sat in church while hearing remarks that were controversial. He will always have his doubters. Some will say he should have left right then and there but Obama argues that you have to look at the whole picture. He's making the case that Wright's ministry needs to be seen in totality. Voters will decide if that is a sustainable argument.

Some may question his judgment, but once you lose your authenticity, you lose everything. One of the big concerns people had was that Obama was making it sound like he had no idea that his pastor was controversial -- like Obama was living in some sort of bubble. But in this speech, Obama was clear that he knew about "stuff" that his pastor was saying. It was a raw moment. We'll see if it comes back to bite him. I think him coming clean about it has more upside than to deny the obvious.

The speech was so sweeping as he talked so much about what divides this country. He was able to shine a light on the racism that existed and still exists in America, but he was able to do it in a way that didn't seem condemning. By confronting the anxieties in both the white and black communities, he was able to get in the weeds a little bit and tell it like it is. Anytime a politician is being "candid" with their audience, it's a good day. Obama had a good day.

The best part of this for the Obama campaign is that their candidate got a chance to look presidential. He got a chance to talk about a major topic in America. It may not have come under the best circumstances but what was impressive is how the campaign didn't go into hibernation. They knew they had a problem and Obama and his campaign didn't wait long at all to be pro-active on this. They went against the grain. Instead of trying to distance themselves, they went head on into it and my guess is they'll be better for it.

Did he go far enough in distancing himself from Pastor Wright in this speech? There will be those who say he had to be stronger in his language. I'm not so sure. Look, the guy defended his pastor who has done a lot for the community but he also chastised him numerous times too. What do we want to do here? Have Obama bring out a dart board complete with a picture of Wright and have Obama start throwing darts at the bulls eye?

I will say this: One word of caution for the Obama campaign: combine this controversy with those Muslim emails circulating, plus his full name, plus Michelle Obama talking about how the first time in her adult life she was proud to be an American and you have a narrative that could take hold. But this speech today seemed to not only contain the Wright controversy but hit a homerun on race relations in this country.

Jilly
03-18-2008, 01:08 PM
To expound further it's like saying that I go to a church that espouses Klu Klux Klan rhetoric from the Pastor. I don't agree with what he says but I keep going for 20 years since he's a family friend. Yeah that would fly. :spock:

I see a slight difference between Dr. Wright's comments and the Klu Klux Klan.

Also, from a black church perspective, there is quite a devotion to one's pastor, more so than we see in the white church

There has been more than one occasion where I have said something controversial from the pulpit, I would hope my parishioners would not be held accountable for everything I say.... if they agree with 95% of what I say, I'm not sure what good the 5% has to do with it, not only that, but people's devotions in a church are not just to the pastor, but to its people.

And then the last thing I've been thinking about is, Dr. Wright was not always so cranky and controversial. In my homiletics courses in seminary, I had to listen to his sermons on more than one occasion and really didn't find anything too crazy or controversial....


I don't know, these are just some of my observations.

patteeu
03-18-2008, 01:13 PM
I see a slight difference between Dr. Wright's comments and the Klu Klux Klan.

Also, from a black church perspective, there is quite a devotion to one's pastor, more so than we see in the white church

There has been more than one occasion where I have said something controversial from the pulpit, I would hope my parishioners would not be held accountable for everything I say.... if they agree with 95% of what I say, I'm not sure what good the 5% has to do with it, not only that, but people's devotions in a church are not just to the pastor, but to its people.

And then the last thing I've been thinking about is, Dr. Wright was not always so cranky and controversial. In my homiletics courses in seminary, I had to listen to his sermons on more than one occasion and really didn't find anything too crazy or controversial....


I don't know, these are just some of my observations.

What's the most controversial thing you've ever said in front of a congregation? Have you ever embraced conspiracy theories implicating the US government in some kind of evil plot? Have you ever blamed the US for 9/11? Anything on that level at all?

Jilly
03-18-2008, 01:23 PM
What's the most controversial thing you've ever said in front of a congregation? Have you ever embraced conspiracy theories implicating the US government in some kind of evil plot? Have you ever blamed the US for 9/11? Anything on that level at all?

no, you're right, I haven't. And I agree it is extreme, but out of the 30 years he has pastored that congregation.....do three sermons given in his later years castrate his entire message? Do we, as Christians, offer grace to someone flawed?

We see in the very Gospels themselves how God uses the flawed to get the strongest messages across. Take Peter - Jesus said to him, "Upon this rock I will build my church", but Peter questioned Jesus, dared him, and while he was being flogged to death he denied that he even knew Jesus, and yet, he was used for the building of the church.

Jilly
03-18-2008, 01:42 PM
http://mp3.christianity.com/mp3/mp3repos32/MMYSEES/317_...

Let me know if this works, I just thought we should listen to a sermon by him in its entirety.

patteeu
03-18-2008, 02:05 PM
no, you're right, I haven't. And I agree it is extreme, but out of the 30 years he has pastored that congregation.....do three sermons given in his later years castrate his entire message? Do we, as Christians, offer grace to someone flawed?

We see in the very Gospels themselves how God uses the flawed to get the strongest messages across. Take Peter - Jesus said to him, "Upon this rock I will build my church", but Peter questioned Jesus, dared him, and while he was being flogged to death he denied that he even knew Jesus, and yet, he was used for the building of the church.

OK, you haven't said anything as controversial as he has, but I'm still curious what the most controversial thing you've said is. :p

Jilly
03-18-2008, 02:07 PM
OK, you haven't said anything as controversial as he has, but I'm still curious what the most controversial thing you've said is. :p

YOU are ornery, Mister!!!!

patteeu
03-18-2008, 02:27 PM
YOU are ornery, Mister!!!!

I bet you've never said anything more controversial in your sermons than "The good Lord wants us to love our fellow man and treat him with respect even if he cheers for the vasoline-wearing, cut-blocking, salary-cap violating cheaters from the mile high city." :)

Jilly
03-18-2008, 02:29 PM
I bet you've never said anything more controversial in your sermons than "The good Lord wants us to love our fellow man and treat him with respect even if he cheers for the vasoline-wearing, cut-blocking, salary-cap violating cheaters from the mile high city." :)

Again, YOU are ornery, Mister. Challenging me as if I'll bite!!! Maybe you should just come to my church and hear me first hand!! :D

Sully
03-18-2008, 02:35 PM
If she had EVER defended the Denver Broncos in church I'm pretty sure I never would have proposed!!!

patteeu
03-18-2008, 02:46 PM
If she had EVER defended the Denver Broncos in church I'm pretty sure I never would have proposed!!!

That's the spirit. I'm sure she's a fantastic woman, but that's just too far. :)

Jilly
03-18-2008, 02:50 PM
That's the spirit. I'm sure she's a fantastic woman, but that's just too far. :)

I would never go that far....in fact, people who even dare to wear blue and orange into the church are excommunicated.

jettio
03-18-2008, 02:56 PM
Not good enough to plug the hole in the ship. Wise PR guys will tell you first in a situation like this, consider saying nothing. Usually thats best decision. If you have to address an issue, do it once and do it well. and Never ever go back and re adress it. So far Obama has failed on every account making the issue worse, making himself look like hes very uncomfortable, and giving more and more ammo to the opposition.

He cannot deny or change he was a member of this church for 20 years.
He Used his church membership to defuse the goofy muslim charge.
He has held up his dedication to the church to further support his Christianity claim with his wedding and kids baptism.
He has used his relationship with Wright to gain his voter base in Chicago since the start of his career.
He has said they are close, like an Uncle.

Now, after all that it comes out that Wright is a loonie of the highest order. Now you may say all black churches have loonies but we all know better. mayor Cleaver is a great local example of a fantastic minister who anyone would enjoy hearing. Not even Jesse Jackson has come to help with Baracks issue..that is a huge signal.

Like it or not, Obama has lost momentum, he has eroded his base of conservative blacks, moderate democrat white or black, and infuriated the great number of people who are just not to keen on seeing our country and what we stand for ripped to shreads, accused of creating the Aids virus, and passing the three striks law so we can fill the prison system with poor black folk.

Sorry Obama, your pitch aint gonna fix whats broke.

The hyenas will keep yelping and the vultures will keep circling, hoping to feed on a carcass.

May they be disappointed.

Mr. Kotter
03-18-2008, 10:42 PM
http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/341390.aspx

Christian Broadcasting Network (700 Club) lauds Obama speech<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

We won't know for awhile how voters view Barack Obama's speech today on race relations but The Brody File saw it as a HUGE positive for Obama and a successful turning point for the future of his campaign. The Obama campaign tells me he told high level staffers on Saturday that he wanted to do this speech. He ended up writing it himself on Sunday and Monday and then finished it up this morning.

With all those American flags behind him, the background was very "State of the Union." It was very presidential and Obama looked like and sounded like a President in the speech.

There were a number of factors that made the speech work. First of all, he didn't just devote a couple paragraphs to Pastor Wright. He wove him throughout the entire speech. It came across as a masterful stroke because he didn't minimize the controversy and yet at the same time was able to explain how Wright's comments fit into the larger "anger" issue within the black community.

In addition, as it relates to the Pastor Wright controversy, I thought the key lines were these:
"For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely."

The reason this part was important was because Obama was able to insulate himself on the authenticity issue. In other words, this was a pretty full mea culpa. He admitted that he sat in church while hearing remarks that were controversial. He will always have his doubters. Some will say he should have left right then and there but Obama argues that you have to look at the whole picture. He's making the case that Wright's ministry needs to be seen in totality. Voters will decide if that is a sustainable argument.

Some may question his judgment, but once you lose your authenticity, you lose everything. One of the big concerns people had was that Obama was making it sound like he had no idea that his pastor was controversial -- like Obama was living in some sort of bubble. But in this speech, Obama was clear that he knew about "stuff" that his pastor was saying. It was a raw moment. We'll see if it comes back to bite him. I think him coming clean about it has more upside than to deny the obvious.

The speech was so sweeping as he talked so much about what divides this country. He was able to shine a light on the racism that existed and still exists in America, but he was able to do it in a way that didn't seem condemning. By confronting the anxieties in both the white and black communities, he was able to get in the weeds a little bit and tell it like it is. Anytime a politician is being "candid" with their audience, it's a good day. Obama had a good day.

The best part of this for the Obama campaign is that their candidate got a chance to look presidential. He got a chance to talk about a major topic in America. It may not have come under the best circumstances but what was impressive is how the campaign didn't go into hibernation. They knew they had a problem and Obama and his campaign didn't wait long at all to be pro-active on this. They went against the grain. Instead of trying to distance themselves, they went head on into it and my guess is they'll be better for it.

Did he go far enough in distancing himself from Pastor Wright in this speech? There will be those who say he had to be stronger in his language. I'm not so sure. Look, the guy defended his pastor who has done a lot for the community but he also chastised him numerous times too. What do we want to do here? Have Obama bring out a dart board complete with a picture of Wright and have Obama start throwing darts at the bulls eye?

I will say this: One word of caution for the Obama campaign: combine this controversy with those Muslim emails circulating, plus his full name, plus Michelle Obama talking about how the first time in her adult life she was proud to be an American and you have a narrative that could take hold. But this speech today seemed to not only contain the Wright controversy but hit a homerun on race relations in this country.

Good article. Good take. :clap:

Comrade Crapski
06-03-2013, 06:31 PM
I see a slight difference between Dr. Wright's comments and the Klu Klux Klan.

Also, from a black church perspective, there is quite a devotion to one's pastor, more so than we see in the white church

There has been more than one occasion where I have said something controversial from the pulpit, I would hope my parishioners would not be held accountable for everything I say.... if they agree with 95% of what I say, I'm not sure what good the 5% has to do with it, not only that, but people's devotions in a church are not just to the pastor, but to its people.

And then the last thing I've been thinking about is, Dr. Wright was not always so cranky and controversial. In my homiletics courses in seminary, I had to listen to his sermons on more than one occasion and really didn't find anything too crazy or controversial....


I don't know, these are just some of my observations.

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