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patteeu
03-19-2008, 10:20 AM
http://bp1.blogger.com/_4yctHhP4f-8/R-DS3krRTKI/AAAAAAAAAE4/oSRyy4w7dx0/s320/Throw+Grandma+from+the+BS+Express2.jpg

Ever since Obama's speech explaining his 20 year intimate relationship with Jeremiah Wright, a black liberation theology preacher whose hate-rants have been shown on cable news channels for the past several days, commentators have been taking exception with his decision to draw some sort of moral equivalence between the pastor and Obama's own white grandmother. Steve Sailer is one of those commentators and he makes an interesting point about the degree to which Obama chose to spin his grandmother's experience in a way that is hard not to conclude reflects more negatively on her than the reality.

Obama throws his own 85-year-old grandmother under the wheels of the BS Express (http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/03/obama-throws-his-own-living-grannie.html)
Steve Sailer
Tuesday, March 18, 2008

...

So, in summary, let's look at how Obama smeared his own elderly but very much alive grandmother, calling her:

"a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Well, no, according to Obama's 1995 book, it is not at all true that she "once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street." Instead, she once confessed her fear of one aggressive black beggar who didn't pass by her but instead confronted her, demanded money, and then gave her -- an intelligent, level-headed woman who had worked her way up to a mid-level corporate management position -- good reason to believe he would have violently mugged her if her bus hadn't pulled up.

...

His own grandmother. The woman who raised him for a good portion of his life. What won't he do to pursue political power?

jettio
03-19-2008, 10:34 AM
patteeu the master parser of all of the BS used to sell the war concludes that nobody lied.

Now he has become the lead hyena trying to reverse parse and miscast everything said by Obama.

hyenas and vultures get a good nights sleep and then think their noise can be heard over a sincere reasonable courageous person.

I think Obama best asset is that all he has to do and stand up and face things face to face and speak his mind, and all the hyenas and vultures run away knowing that their noise does not have enough truth behind it to match up.

patteeu believes in B*sh, and can't even figure out that he misled the public into a real life and death war.

the hyenas and vultures sure like to pretend that they know so much about people that they never met.

pikesome
03-19-2008, 10:35 AM
What won't he do to pursue political power?

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070112/070112_hillary_vmed_7a.widec.jpg

http://www.registers1.com/mccain/images/mccain.jpg

The line of people willing to do some pretty lousy things to get elected forms to the left.

SBK
03-19-2008, 10:38 AM
patteeu the master parser of all of the BS used to sell the war concludes that nobody lied.

Now he has become the lead hyena trying to reverse parse and miscast everything said by Obama.

hyenas and vultures get a good nights sleep and then think their noise can be heard over a sincere reasonable courageous person.

I think Obama best asset is that all he has to do and stand up and face things face to face and speak his mind, and all the hyenas and vultures run away knowing that their noise does not have enough truth behind it to match up.

patteeu believes in B*sh, and can't even figure out that he misled the public into a real life and death war.

the hyenas and vultures sure like to pretend that they know so much about people that they never met.

I think we should start a movement to change to O*ama.

According to jettio there can be nothing wrong with O*ama, he's perfect in every possible way. Throwing his grandma under the bus is totally acceptable. ROFL

Sully
03-19-2008, 10:44 AM
Wow...we're down to reaching this far.

Some fierce fear you guys have of running against this guy.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 10:46 AM
The line of people willing to do some pretty lousy things to get elected forms to the left.

No doubt. Contrary to some of the magical, hope-filled claims of Obama supporters, they're all just politicians.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 10:47 AM
Wow...we're down to reaching this far.

Some fierce fear you guys have of running against this guy.

I'm supporting an Obama nomination.

Sully
03-19-2008, 10:47 AM
No doubt. Contrary to some of the magical, hope-filled claims of Obama supporters, they're all just politicians.

Has any Obama supporter...ever...claimed Obama wasn't a politician?

Sully
03-19-2008, 10:47 AM
I'm supporting Obama for the nomination.

Your actions don't support your words.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 10:51 AM
Has any Obama supporter...ever...claimed Obama wasn't a politician?

Yeah, don't you remember back in the golden months of his rise to frontrunner status when Obama was supposed to be a different kind of politician? Not anymore. He's the same.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 10:52 AM
Your actions don't support your words.

I think less of Hillary than I do of Obama, but more relevantly I think that Obama will be easier to beat in November. And besides, I don't think the anti-Hillary voices need any help.

Sully
03-19-2008, 10:53 AM
Yeah, don't you remember back in the golden months of his rise to frontrunner status when Obama was supposed to be a different kind of politician? Not anymore. He's the same.

"Different kind of politician" is much different from "NOT a politician."
I assume you know that.

And I still contend that he is a much different kind of politician, and has proven so during his campaign.

jettio
03-19-2008, 10:54 AM
I think we should start a movement to change to O*ama.

According to jettio there can be nothing wrong with O*ama, he's perfect in every possible way. Throwing his grandma under the bus is totally acceptable. ROFL


You sure got awful excited and posted time after time in that thread with the videos.

You say you go to church and you say that you are fair, but face the fact that you were acting like just another hyena that was yelping mad when you thought you had a carcass but you sat out the discussions following the man standing up and facing the matter face to face.

Safe to say that you posted a lot more when you smelled blood.

Just bide your time a little longer, sit out a few more days, all of the hyenas and vultures were quiet yesterday, ought to stay quiet for a few more days but you got a few more months of election to hope for another reason to yelp and circle.

SBK
03-19-2008, 10:56 AM
You sure got awful excited and posted time after time in that thread with the videos.

You say you go to church and you say that you are fair, but face the fact that you were acting like just another hyena that was yelping mad when you thought you had a carcass but you sat out the discussions following the man standing up and facing the matter face to face.

Safe to say that you posted a lot more when you smelled blood.

Just bide your time a little longer, sit out a few more days, all of the hyenas and vultures were quiet yesterday, ought to stay quiet for a few more days but you got a few more months of election to hope for another reason to yelp and circle.

Are you serious?

Mr. Flopnuts
03-19-2008, 10:58 AM
Yeah, don't you remember back in the golden months of his rise to frontrunner status when Obama was supposed to be a different kind of politician? Not anymore. He's the same.

I don't care what side of the fence you're on. They're ALL politicians. You don't get put in a position to run for POTUS if you're not. I guess hope springs eternal........

jettio
03-19-2008, 11:00 AM
Are you serious?

You may have had 50-100+ anti-Obama posts since the videos of Reverend Wright you were so excited.

Obama stands up and speaks and you go play run and hide.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 11:04 AM
"Different kind of politician" is much different from "NOT a politician."
I assume you know that.

So what? I'm not the one who brought "NOT a politician" into this discussion. You introduced that strawman in post #8.

And I still contend that he is a much different kind of politician, and has proven so during his campaign.

This is where we disagree. From his duplicity on the NAFTA issue, to his aggressive use of legal challenges to clear his path to the Illinois Senate, to his suspect deals with Tony Rezko, to his 20 year embrace of a church with a black nationalist message for political gain and his recent rejection of that message for broader appeal, and many more, Obama shows no sign of being much different than any politician, other than the fact that he's perhaps a more gifted speaker than the average pol.

SBK
03-19-2008, 11:15 AM
You may have had 50-100+ anti-Obama posts since the videos of Reverend Wright you were so excited.

Obama stands up and speaks and you go play run and hide.

I'm sorry that I've disappointed you by being busy. Here's something that I hope makes you feel better.

For 20 years Obama has been a member of a church that subscribes to the black liberation theology. According to his pastor, on the church website: (http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm)

• One of the biggest gaps in knowledge that causes the kind of ignorance that you hear spouted by this man [Erik Rush] and those like him, has to do with the fact that these persons are completely ignorant when it comes to the Black religious tradition. The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology.
• Black theology is one of the many theologies in the Americas that became popular during the liberation theology movement. They include Hispanic theology, Native American theology, Asian theology and Womanist theology.
• I use the word “systematized” because Black liberation theology was in existence long before Dr. Cone’s book. It originates in the days of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. It was systematized and published by theologians, Old Testament scholars, New Testament scholars, ethicists, church historians, and historians of religion such as Dr. James Cone, Dr. Cain Hope Felder, Dr. Gayraud Wilmore, Dr. Jacqueline Grant, Dr. Kelley Brown Douglas, Dr. Renita Weems, Dr. Katie Cannon, Dr. Dwight Hopkins, Dr. Linda Thomas, and Dr. Randall Bailey.


So who is James Cone? (I won't even say that perhaps a good book for churches to get their theology from would be the bible.)

According to wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone)

Dr. Cone has explained the his theology as follows<sup id="_ref-0" class="reference">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-0)</sup>,<sup id="_ref-1" class="reference">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-1)</sup>,<sup id="_ref-2" class="reference">[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-2)</sup>
Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

A true message of love, hope and change. Oh, and we should ignore 20 years of agreement, support, attendance and spiritual guidance under these types of teachings based upon one speech.

Direckshun
03-19-2008, 11:19 AM
His own grandmother. The woman who raised him for a good portion of his life. What won't he do to pursue political power?
You are adorable.

Donger
03-19-2008, 11:23 AM
It's going to be a fun summer. I get the feeling that Obama is not going to like the questions.

Direckshun
03-19-2008, 11:29 AM
It's going to be a fun summer. I get the feeling that Obama is not going to like the questions.
With creative examples of excrement like this one, what's not to like?

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 11:33 AM
I almost fell off my bed laughing when I heard Sean Hannity claim Obama was wrong for 'throwing his grandmother under the bus'.

The predictability and the desire to downplay/ignore white racism was just too much to handle.

I'm not surprised Pat is taking his cues from him.

What, no thread accusing Obama of being a racist and anti-semite? How about another topic demanding Obama not only drop out of the race, but resign from his senate seat?

Donger
03-19-2008, 11:34 AM
I almost fell off my bed laughing when I heard Sean Hannity claim Obama was wrong for 'throwing his grandmother under the bus'.

The predictability and the desire to downplay/ignore white racism was just too much to handle.

White racism?

NewChief
03-19-2008, 11:35 AM
http://bp1.blogger.com/_4yctHhP4f-8/R-DS3krRTKI/AAAAAAAAAE4/oSRyy4w7dx0/s320/Throw+Grandma+from+the+BS+Express2.jpg

Ever since Obama's speech explaining his 20 year intimate relationship with Jeremiah Wright, a black liberation theology preacher whose hate-rants have been shown on cable news channels for the past several days, commentators have been taking exception with his decision to draw some sort of moral equivalence between the pastor and Obama's own white grandmother. Steve Sailer is one of those commentators and he makes an interesting point about the degree to which Obama chose to spin his grandmother's experience in a way that is hard not to conclude reflects more negatively on her than the reality.

Obama throws his own 85-year-old grandmother under the wheels of the BS Express (http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/03/obama-throws-his-own-living-grannie.html)
Steve Sailer
Tuesday, March 18, 2008

...

So, in summary, let's look at how Obama smeared his own elderly but very much alive grandmother, calling her:

"a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

Well, no, according to Obama's 1995 book, it is not at all true that she "once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street." Instead, she once confessed her fear of one aggressive black beggar who didn't pass by her but instead confronted her, demanded money, and then gave her -- an intelligent, level-headed woman who had worked her way up to a mid-level corporate management position -- good reason to believe he would have violently mugged her if her bus hadn't pulled up.

...

His own grandmother. The woman who raised him for a good portion of his life. What won't he do to pursue political power?

Umm, just because in his book he lists one specific example doesn't mean she hasn't confessed to fear of black men on the streets at other times. Hell, it's not that uncommon of a fear. About 50% of the women that I know well, liberal, conservative, "enlightened," or "ignorant" will confess to a similar fear. Hell, I've had that fear when walking down the street in the wrong part of town and realized I probably wouldn't have been half as nervous if the group of guys heading toward me had been white. That was what was so powerful about his speech... it spoke, personally and powerfully, to our nation's collective experience with race from all sides of the issue.

SBK
03-19-2008, 11:36 AM
White racism?

Those who do not support Obama for $500 Alex.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 11:38 AM
White racism?

Yes, the grandmother was white.

That's kind of an important detail because comments like Hannity's and threads like these wouldn't have existed otherwise.

CHIEF4EVER
03-19-2008, 11:39 AM
Those who do not support Obama for $500 Alex.

I'll take anyone who doesn't support Obama and criticizes him or questions his integrity in any way is a white racist for $1000 Alex. :shake:

Donger
03-19-2008, 11:43 AM
Yes, the grandmother was white.

That's kind of an important detail because comments like Hannity's and threads like these wouldn't have existed otherwise.

It's a fact that Obama's grandmother is white. Obama speaks about it in his book.

Why is bringing it up racist at all?

beer bacon
03-19-2008, 11:46 AM
It's a fact that Obama's grandmother is white. Obama speaks about it in his book.

Why is bringing it up racist at all?

Yes, his grandmother is white and has expressed racist views at times. An example of white racism. Dense.

Donger
03-19-2008, 11:48 AM
Yes, his grandmother is white and has expressed racist views at times. An example of white racism. Dense.

Holmez wasn't referring to her, was he? I thought he was referring to Sean Hannity.

StcChief
03-19-2008, 11:48 AM
Dr. Cone has explained the his theology as follows<sup id="_ref-0" class="reference">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-0)</sup>,<sup id="_ref-1" class="reference">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-1)</sup>,<sup id="_ref-2" class="reference">[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-2)</sup> Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.
Praise the lord and pass the OE40.

NewChief
03-19-2008, 11:49 AM
Holmez wasn't referring to her, was he? I thought he was referring to Sean Hannity.

I believe he was saying that Hannity was trying to ignore/downplay the white racism of Obama's grandmother.

pikesome
03-19-2008, 11:51 AM
Praise the lord and pass the OE40.

I'm going to hell because I laughed at this post.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 11:53 AM
It's a fact that Obama's grandmother is white. Obama speaks about it in his book.

Why is bringing it up racist at all?

I have no idea what you're arguing.

Obama yesterday brought up some things his grandmother had said that were racist, but that ultimately she was a good-hearted person and someone that loved him very much. Everyone has someone like that in their family and it was brought up to tie us all together and to show that they are still good people despite those flaws.

You heard hacks like Hannity 'rush to the defense' of Obama's grandmother strictly because they don't want to admit or deal with white racism. It works against their beliefs that we've come as far as we possibly can on civil rights. It's why they will play the clip of Obama's pastor on a 24 hour loop, but refuse to even discuss John McCain's associations with John Hagee or Rod Parsely.

Mr. Flopnuts
03-19-2008, 11:55 AM
Praise the lord and pass the OE40.

Have you always disliked black people, or is it just rhetoric to you?

Donger
03-19-2008, 11:55 AM
You heard hacks like Hannity 'rush to the defense' of Obama's grandmother strictly because they don't want to admit or deal with white racism.

How do you know this?

beer bacon
03-19-2008, 11:58 AM
Holmez wasn't referring to her, was he? I thought he was referring to Sean Hannity.

Hannity was ignoring the point Obama was making, IE that his grandmother at times had expressed racist views, but Obama still loved her and would not disown her for such comments. That entire section of the speech used Barack's grandmother as an example of the contradictions that exists within people. On one hand, Obama's grandmother loved him and sacrificed for him, but at the same time she expressed racist views towards black people and other minorities. Things are never as simple or easy to parse as many believe.

Instead, Hannity ignored the entire context of what Obama was saying and went off some tangent that people like patteeu eat up, "Obama throws his grandma off the train for political expediency." This is the exact opposite of what Obama said.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 11:58 AM
How do you know this?

Because I have a friggin' brain. If Obama's grandmother was black and had espoused anti-white views since he was a child Hannity and his ilk would be using it to show Barack has a deep-seeded hatred of white people.

jettio
03-19-2008, 12:01 PM
I'm sorry that I've disappointed you by being busy. Here's something that I hope makes you feel better.

For 20 years Obama has been a member of a church that subscribes to the black liberation theology. According to his pastor, on the church website: (http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm)

• One of the biggest gaps in knowledge that causes the kind of ignorance that you hear spouted by this man [Erik Rush] and those like him, has to do with the fact that these persons are completely ignorant when it comes to the Black religious tradition. The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology.
• Black theology is one of the many theologies in the Americas that became popular during the liberation theology movement. They include Hispanic theology, Native American theology, Asian theology and Womanist theology.
• I use the word “systematized” because Black liberation theology was in existence long before Dr. Cone’s book. It originates in the days of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. It was systematized and published by theologians, Old Testament scholars, New Testament scholars, ethicists, church historians, and historians of religion such as Dr. James Cone, Dr. Cain Hope Felder, Dr. Gayraud Wilmore, Dr. Jacqueline Grant, Dr. Kelley Brown Douglas, Dr. Renita Weems, Dr. Katie Cannon, Dr. Dwight Hopkins, Dr. Linda Thomas, and Dr. Randall Bailey.


So who is James Cone? (I won't even say that perhaps a good book for churches to get their theology from would be the bible.)

According to wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone)

Dr. Cone has explained the his theology as follows<sup id="_ref-0" class="reference">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-0)</sup>,<sup id="_ref-1" class="reference">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-1)</sup>,<sup id="_ref-2" class="reference">[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-2)</sup>
Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

A true message of love, hope and change. Oh, and we should ignore 20 years of agreement, support, attendance and spiritual guidance under these types of teachings based upon one speech.


You should invite your pastor to log on to chiefs planet and review your enthusiastic opposition to Obama. Maybe your pastor could give you good advice about it.

Like I said, the hyenas and vultures like Hannity are hoping for a carcass, I think it best for our country that they stay hungry.

Obama was right about how guys like that make their living off of feeding racial resentment in the demographic to which you belong.

Donger
03-19-2008, 12:03 PM
Because I have a friggin' brain. If Obama's grandmother was black and had espoused anti-white views since he was a child Hannity and his ilk would be using it to show Barack has a deep-seeded hatred of white people.

Maybe Hannity are just looking for cracks in Obama's logic. The fact that it happens to be about race doesn't immediately make them "racist," does it?

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 12:05 PM
Maybe Hannity are just looking for cracks in Obama's logic. The fact that it happens to be about race doesn't immediately make them "racist," does it?

ROFL What was the crack in logic he was pointing out?

A crack in logic would be me pointing out that Hannity wants to claim Obama is a racist all while making the argument that he has a very close relationship with Bill Ayers.

Donger
03-19-2008, 12:06 PM
ROFL What was the crack in logic he was pointing out?

A crack in logic would be me pointing out that Hannity wants to claim Obama is a racist all while making the argument that he has a very close relationship with Bill Ayers.

I don't know. I'm not Hannity. Neither are you.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 12:09 PM
I don't know. I'm not Hannity.

So then you probably shouldn't be speculating on his motives...

Maybe Hannity [is] just looking for cracks in Obama's logic.

...if I can't point out obvious contradictions.

Donger
03-19-2008, 12:11 PM
So then you probably shouldn't be speculating on his motives...



...if I can't point out obvious contradictions.

I was stating a possibility. You stated your belief as fact.

SBK
03-19-2008, 12:12 PM
You should invite your pastor to log on to chiefs planet and review your enthusiastic opposition to Obama. Maybe your pastor could give you good advice about it.

Like I said, the hyenas and vultures like Hannity are hoping for a carcass, I think it best for our country that they stay hungry.

Obama was right about how guys like that make their living off of feeding racial resentment in the demographic to which you belong.

No, the one making a living off feeding racial resentment is O*ama's pastor. I'm not saying anything racist at all. I've already said that what this guy preaches bothers me. The idea of having a President with these views bothers me. And I do not believe for one second that you attend a church for 20 freaking years with these core beliefs and do not agree with them. O*ama can say whatever he wants, in this case his actions scream over the whisper of his words.

Now you can go back to calling me a racist for whatever reason you can think of.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 12:26 PM
You believe Obama is racist and hates white people?

Donger
03-19-2008, 12:28 PM
You believe Obama is racist and hates white people?

Me? I don't know.

chagrin
03-19-2008, 12:30 PM
patteeu the master parser of all of the BS used to sell the war concludes that nobody lied.

Now he has become the lead hyena trying to reverse parse and miscast everything said by Obama.

hyenas and vultures get a good nights sleep and then think their noise can be heard over a sincere reasonable courageous person.

I think Obama best asset is that all he has to do and stand up and face things face to face and speak his mind, and all the hyenas and vultures run away knowing that their noise does not have enough truth behind it to match up.

patteeu believes in B*sh, and can't even figure out that he misled the public into a real life and death war.

the hyenas and vultures sure like to pretend that they know so much about people that they never met.


Dude, are you serious with this?

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 12:31 PM
Me? I don't know.

I was asking SBK, but even "I don't know" says plenty about how not in touch with reality you are.

Donger
03-19-2008, 12:31 PM
Dude, are you serious with this?

Yes. Yes they are very serious, IMO.

Donger
03-19-2008, 12:31 PM
I was asking SBK, but even "I don't know" says plenty about how not in touch with reality you are.

Oh? What's the reality?

patteeu
03-19-2008, 12:38 PM
White racism?

You know, the kind Obama says his grandma practiced.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 12:40 PM
That a guy born to a black kenyan father, raised by his white mother and white grandparents with his Indonesian sister in various countries/states, who has close relatives on 3 different continents who look absolutely nothing like each other, likely has an understanding of people that you or I could only hope to have.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 12:41 PM
Umm, just because in his book he lists one specific example doesn't mean she hasn't confessed to fear of black men on the streets at other times.

You've got a good point. It's possible. I doubt that would have been left out of his book on the topic, but it's possible. Maybe he didn't want to make his grandma look bad just to sell books, but for the presidency he's willing to pull out the stops.

SBK
03-19-2008, 12:43 PM
You believe Obama is racist and hates white people?

I don't know. You don't know. I do think that he believes that white people and black people are not equal.

Donger
03-19-2008, 12:43 PM
That a guy born to a black kenyan father, raised by his white mother and white grandparents with his Indonesian sister in various countries/states, who has close relatives on 3 different continents who look absolutely nothing like each other, likely has an understanding of people that you or I could only hope to have.

It's possible, sure. But, like me, all you know about Obama is what you've been sold so far.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 12:44 PM
Yes, his grandmother is white and has expressed racist views at times. An example of white racism. Dense.

That's what Obama says when he's trying to soften the impact of the Jeremiah Wright affair, but is it really true? There's at least some reason to doubt it. That's the point of this thread.

Look at all the people calling his grandma a racist in this thread. What if she isn't? Where did we get the idea that she is? If he's making this up or if he's exaggerating it, is he doing right by his grandma?

Sully
03-19-2008, 12:47 PM
I don't even believe that Obama threw his grandmother under the bus or "made her look bad" by telling this story. The whole topic he has been discussing over the past few days is a generational difference in how race is viewed. He simply saw his grandmother as flawed, much as he saw his pastor. Nothing sinister about that, we all have family members with views we disagree with.
I've got family who moved out to the country in order not to have their kids in school with blacks. Did I just throw them under the bus by saying that publicly? No. I simply described a very real detail about them.
That's not to say we need to keep working toward a place where racism isn't as big a part of our lives.

Sully
03-19-2008, 12:47 PM
I don't know. You don't know. I do think that he believes that white people and black people are not equal.

What has made you think that?
I haven't seen a shred of evidence of that.

Donger
03-19-2008, 12:48 PM
That's what Obama says when he's trying to soften the impact of the Jeremiah Wright affair, but is it really true? There's at least some reason to doubt it. That's the point of this thread.

As I understand it, Obama brought up his grandmother's racism as an example of how he has accepted those around him without agreeing with their beliefs. If that is the case, however, has anyone pointed out that he didn't choose his grandmother, but he did chose his pastor?

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 12:48 PM
I don't know. You don't know. I do think that he believes that white people and black people are not equal.

LMAO He himself is equally black and white.

I would love to believe more people like you didn't exist.

That's what Obama says when he's trying to soften the impact of the Jeremiah Wright affair, but is it really true? There's at least some reason to doubt it. That's the point of this thread.

WHITE RACISM IS A MYTH UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 12:53 PM
As I understand it, Obama brought up his grandmother's racism as an example of how he has accepted those around him without agreeing with their beliefs. If that is the case, however, has anyone pointed out that he didn't choose his grandmother, but he did chose his pastor?

Would you consider your grandmother(if she shared those beliefs) a terrible person if she wasn't related to you? Or does the fact you know someone on a close level allow you to see the good in them?

Look at all the people calling his grandma a racist in this thread.

Quotes?

Taco John
03-19-2008, 12:55 PM
People that don't live in mixed racial families would never understand this. I don't think he threw his grandma from the train. He simply gave us a look into the complicated life of a mixed race individual.

Donger
03-19-2008, 12:56 PM
Would you consider your grandmother(if she shared those beliefs) a terrible person if she wasn't related to you? Or does the fact you know someone on a close level allow you to see the good in them?

Sure, I could more easily forgive and tolerate stupid prejudices of a family member (a person I didn't chose) than a friend or pastor.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 12:57 PM
Quotes?

Sure. Short memory?

White racism?

Yes, the grandmother was white.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 01:04 PM
Sure, I could more easily forgive and tolerate stupid prejudices of a family member (a person I didn't chose) than a friend or pastor.

So your family members would be worse people if you weren't related to them?

patteeu
03-19-2008, 01:04 PM
As I understand it, Obama brought up his grandmother's racism as an example of how he has accepted those around him without agreeing with their beliefs. If that is the case, however, has anyone pointed out that he didn't choose his grandmother, but he did chose his pastor?

In other threads, yes, but it is a salient fact that people shouldn't be allowed to forget.

Not only is there that distinction, but even if his story about his grandma is not an exaggeration/distortion, the qualitative difference between his grandma's supposed racism and the hate his pastor has demonstrated is dramatic. But the Obamapologists want to diminish the impact of his mentor's hate-filled diatribes by trying to equate them with the relatively soft racism he attributes to his dear grandmother. Like this example where we hear that they were both just "flawed". No recognition of any qualitative difference at all.

He simply saw his grandmother as flawed, much as he saw his pastor.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 01:05 PM
Sure. Short memory?

A racist statement doesn't make someone racist. Who called his grandmother racist?

Donger
03-19-2008, 01:06 PM
So your family members would be worse people if you weren't related to them?

No. First off, if they wasn't related to them, they wouldn't be my family members.

Second, they wouldn't be any worse or better regardless.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 01:08 PM
WHITE RACISM IS A MYTH UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE

That's funny. Of course, it ignores that I helped to point out the presence of white racist support for the Ron Paul candidacy.

Sully
03-19-2008, 01:08 PM
In other threads, yes, but it is a salient fact that people shouldn't be allowed to forget.

Not only is there that distinction, but even if his story about his grandma is not an exaggeration/distortion, the qualitative difference between his grandma's supposed racism and the hate his pastor has demonstrated is dramatic. But the Obamapologists want to diminish the impact of his mentor's hate-filled diatribes by trying to equate them with the relatively soft racism he attributes to his dear grandmother. Like this example where we hear that they were both just "flawed". No recognition of any qualitative difference at all.
Absolutely. He chose his pastor.
But while we are talking about exaggeration/ distortion, why is no one ready to attack the distortion that is 40 seconds= 20 years of hateful rhetoric?
Would any one of you be comfortable with us defining you (and your friends/ anyone around you) if we were to find 40 seconds from your life and mesh them together?
Obama explained this clearly. The rhetoric on those clips is not the pastor he has seen for 20 years. If you choose to not believe him (Like there is an "if" there) that's fine. But let's not pretend you are working on facts, but rather n supposition.

Donger
03-19-2008, 01:11 PM
Absolutely. He chose his pastor.
But while we are talking about exaggeration/ distortion, why is no one ready to attack the distortion that is 40 seconds= 20 years of controversial rhetoric?
Would any one of you be comfortable with us defining you (and your friends/ anyone around you) if we were to find 40 seconds from your life and mesh them together?
Obama explained this clearly. The rhetoric on those clips is not the pastor he has seen for 20 years. If you choose to not believe him (Like there is an "if" there) that's fine. But let's not pretend you are working on facts, but rather n supposition.

As I understand it, Obama knew long before the recent Youtubism of his pastor that he was "controversial."

Sully
03-19-2008, 01:13 PM
As I understand it, Obama knew long before the recent Youtubism of his pastor that he was "controversial."

Controversial does not equal hateful...

I see that I typed "controversial" in error in my post. I apologize for that and will change it to "hateful."

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 01:13 PM
Second, they wouldn't be any worse or better regardless.

Then why draw a distinction between people you choose or don't choose if you can see the person in the same light either way?

patteeu
03-19-2008, 01:13 PM
A racist statement doesn't make someone racist. Who called his grandmother racist?

You responded to Donger's question about white racism by pointing out that Obama's grandma was white. If that's not attributing white racism to Obama's grandmother without qualification, I don't know what is. Look, I don't blame you. Even if she doesn't deserve being tarred with that most vile description, Obama's the one who planted that thought in your mind. You're not using it gratuitously.

Sully
03-19-2008, 01:18 PM
In addition, I'd argue that it's a pretty Christian ideal that even if you disagree with someone, you don't disown or disavow them, especially if they have so many other gifts. But that's just my version of the religion.

Donger
03-19-2008, 01:18 PM
Controversial does not equal hateful...

I see that I typed "controversial" in error in my post. I apologize for that and will change it to "hateful."

I would qualify some of what the good Reverend said as "hateful."

HonestChieffan
03-19-2008, 01:20 PM
Maybe he's just nuts.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 01:20 PM
You responded to Donger's question about white racism by pointing out that Obama's grandma was white. If that's not attributing white racism to Obama's grandmother without qualification, I don't know what is.

:spock:

White racism = Racism from a white person.

Obama's account does not display his grandmother as some racist, just that she had uttered some things that were racist.

Sully
03-19-2008, 01:20 PM
I would qualify some of what the good Reverend said as "hateful."

As would I.
Does that mean he has preached all hate all the time for Obama's 20-year membership? Does the fact that when they released his tapes, we could only find about 40 seconds of this "hate" tell you anything?

Donger
03-19-2008, 01:22 PM
Then why draw a distinction between people you choose or don't choose if you can see the person in the same light either way?

Are you serious? Personally, I wouldn't choose to be friends with someone like Wright. Obama can't suddenly choose not to be the grandson of his grandmother.

Donger
03-19-2008, 01:23 PM
:spock:

White racism = Racism from a white person.

Obama's account does not display his grandmother as some racist, just that she had uttered some things that were racist.

How do you define "racist"?

Sully
03-19-2008, 01:25 PM
Rev. Wright is being honored at Brite Divinity School in FOrt Worth. Some (guess who) will try and turn this into a controversy, but I think Brite explains it (and his career) better than I could...

Brite's Response to Wright's Recognition

After careful review, and understanding the sincere concerns many have voiced in response to recent media reports, Brite has for the following reasons affirmed the Black Church Studies Program’s decision, made months ago, to recognize the contributions of the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. at the fourth Annual State of the Black Church Awards Banquet. Previous award recipients include the Rev. Dr. Albert Chew, the Rev. Dr. Zan Holmes, the Rev. Dr. William A. Lawson, and the Rev. Dr. Katie G. Cannon.

Dr. Wright served as pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago from 1972-2008. During this period, Trinity UCC grew from 87 adults to over 8,700 members. Today this south Chicago congregation provides numerous ministries ranging from Food Share, Dance and Math tutorials to small groups. The church tithes its annual revenues to support other churches, denominational missions, and agencies supporting mission work in Liberia, Haiti, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Ghana, Brazil, and South Africa. Trinity has also birthed four new congregations of the United Church of Christ--two in Atlanta, Georgia, one in Gary, Indiana, and one in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. In 2001 Dr. Wright was the Wells Preacher for Brite’s Ministers Week, a continuing education event that draws pastors and lay leaders from across the nation. No Wells Preacher in recent years has been better received than Dr. Wright.

Contrary to media claims that Wright preaches racial hatred, church leaders who have observed his ministry describe him as a faithful preacher of the gospel who has ministered in a context radically different from that of many middle class Americans. A retired white Disciples of Christ minister recently wrote:

"When I heard Jeremiah Wright at Ministers Week a few years back--before I had heard of Obama for President--I thought Wright one of the best preachers I'd heard and certainly not just among Black preachers. His content was orthodox Christianity with much scripture focus on justice, peace and compassion--a call to be like Jesus in concern for the poor, the downtrodden and despised among us. . ."

In response to the criticism that his Black Liberation Theology promotes Black separatism, Wright stated in a March 2 FOXNews broadcast that "The African-centered point of view does not assume superiority, nor does it assume separatism. It assumes Africans speaking for themselves as subjects of history, not as objects of history."

Brite does not endorse all of the statements or views of any of the church leaders recognized by the Divinity School. Brite is recognizing Dr. Wright for his forty-year ministry linking divine justice and social justice. This is work that Brite seeks to further through its mission of educating women and men—through its programs of instruction, research and scholarship, and other forms of church and community service—for the ministry, witness, and outreach of the church of Jesus Christ in the world.

http://www.brite.tcu.edu/wright_response.asp

Donger
03-19-2008, 01:26 PM
As would I.
Does that mean he has preached all hate all the time for Obama's 20-year membership? Does the fact that when they released his tapes, we could only find about 40 seconds of this "hate" tell you anything?

I wonder why Obama chose not to have Wright introduce him when he declared his intention to run for POTUS?

Sully
03-19-2008, 01:28 PM
I wonder why Obama chose not to have Wright introduce him when he declared his intention to run for POTUS?

Probably because of his "controversial" sermons.
Doesn't mean they were hateful, just controversial...

StcChief
03-19-2008, 01:29 PM
at this rate Grandma is going UNDER THE TRAIN not from it.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 01:32 PM
How do you define "racist"?

Someone with a genuine hatred of a race, not someone who utters something racist once in a while.

My grandmother ultimately won't vote for Obama because he's black, but she doesn't hate black people in general. My mom has uttered racist things before, despite the fact she has close friends who are black.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 01:34 PM
Controversial does not equal hateful...

I see that I typed "controversial" in error in my post. I apologize for that and will change it to "hateful."

Until Obama clearly articulates what he considers the boundary between "controversial" and "fierce[ly] critic[al]" comments (which he admits to witnessing over the past 20 years) and "not only wrong but divisive" comments (which he became aware of a year ago and only decided to denounce last week), we have no idea whether controversial equals hateful or not.

Sully
03-19-2008, 01:36 PM
Until Obama clearly articulates what he considers the boundary between "controversial" and "fierce[ly] critic[al]" comments (which he admits to witnessing over the past 20 years) and "not only wrong but divisive" comments (which he became aware of a year ago and only decided to denounce last week), we have no idea whether controversial equals hateful or not.

I think we would if there was evidence of more hate. The fact that there is none is very telling. It just depends on who wants to hear it, or who feels better by not hearing it. Confirmation Bias.

beer bacon
03-19-2008, 01:37 PM
I wonder why Obama chose not to have Wright introduce him when he declared his intention to run for POTUS?

Probably because giving someone like Wright with a prominent position in his campaign helps pushes the narrative that he is the "black" candidate, which is basically death.

Even if Obama convinces most people that he doesn't share Wright's specific issues, Barack being seen on spoken about on TV with a black man in African-centric garb allows various interested parties to push the narrative that Obama is just another black candidate working for black interests.

The majority of people won't take the time to learn his history, but they definitely will see the picture of Obama and Wright side-by-side. In the general, it won't matter that most people side with Obama on policy issues if the Republican machine can convince enough people that Obama has some sort of secret. black agenda.*

*Formerly a secret, Muslim agenda. If the secret, black agenda meme doesn't work than eventually something like a secret, atheist agenda will be pushed.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 01:37 PM
:spock:

White racism = Racism from a white person.

Obama's account does not display his grandmother as some racist, just that she had uttered some things that were racist.

I'm having trouble following the distinction you're trying to draw here. What does make someone racist if it's not racist views. Surely you're not suggesting that Obama's grandma was making hollow statements that didn't really reflect her inner thoughts. That would defeat his purpose for mentioning her story. :shrug:

|Zach|
03-19-2008, 01:38 PM
I am surprised this article was even found after sorting through all the glowing endorsements of this speech from left, center, and right leaning publications.

It is the internet though. You can pretty much find everything except the page numbers to C4E's book quotes he posted.

beer bacon
03-19-2008, 01:39 PM
Until Obama clearly articulates what he considers the boundary between "controversial" and "fierce[ly] critic[al]" comments (which he admits to witnessing over the past 20 years) and "not only wrong but divisive" comments (which he became aware of a year ago and only decided to denounce last week), we have no idea whether controversial equals hateful or not.

You don't really care what he does. The character arguments against Obama will be forever shifting until something really sticks.

|Zach|
03-19-2008, 01:40 PM
You don't really care what he does. The character arguments against Obama will be forever shifting until something really sticks.

It really must be exhausting on his end.

patteeu
03-19-2008, 01:44 PM
Someone with a genuine hatred of a race, not someone who utters something racist once in a while.

My grandmother ultimately won't vote for Obama because he's black, but she doesn't hate black people in general. My mom has uttered racist things before, despite the fact she has close friends who are black.

Goodness. Obama's started a cult-like trend of throwing female forebears under the train. :p

patteeu
03-19-2008, 01:46 PM
I think we would if there was evidence of more hate. The fact that there is none is very telling. It just depends on who wants to hear it, or who feels better by not hearing it. Confirmation Bias.

Our own biases are all we're left with since Obama apparently doesn't want to be more forthcoming.

Sully
03-19-2008, 01:49 PM
Our own biases are all we're left with since Obama apparently doesn't want to be more forthcoming.

Just so we are clear...
Your level of expectation is for Obama to come out with a list of passages and one-by-one go through and define them for you?

Or maybe we could just be reasonable and assume since an army of folks who have pored through Wright's tapes have yet to come out with more damning evidence, that there isn't any (or that there is very little being saved for a more advantageous date).

Seems one of those scenarios makes a little more sense than the other.
I trust that, even if you can't admit it, you know which one that is.

SBK
03-19-2008, 01:59 PM
What has made you think that?
I haven't seen a shred of evidence of that.

I would use the doctrine of his church. That'd be a good place to start, and I even posted what his pastor has written and is on the website in this thread for your viewing pleasure.

SBK
03-19-2008, 02:00 PM
LMAO He himself is equally black and white.

I would love to believe more people like you didn't exist.



What, people that don't blindly follow politicians? Or people that look to actions and choices more than words?

What is it about me that you wish didn't exist?

patteeu
03-19-2008, 02:13 PM
Just so we are clear...
Your level of expectation is for Obama to come out with a list of passages and one-by-one go through and define them for you?

Or maybe we could just be reasonable and assume since an army of folks who have pored through Wright's tapes have yet to come out with more damning evidence, that there isn't any (or that there is very little being saved for a more advantageous date).

Seems one of those scenarios makes a little more sense than the other.
I trust that, even if you can't admit it, you know which one that is.

What do you think the "controversial" statements he's witnessed are? What kind of statements were made by Wright as a "fierce critic" of foreign and domestic policy? We have no idea because Obama has refused to elaborate.

If, by the time this election is over, no additional examples of extreme controversy are produced, I'll conclude that your generous assumption that there are no such examples is accurate. Until then, I'm going to keep an open mind.

vailpass
03-19-2008, 02:22 PM
That guy in the picture is Jeremiah Wright? I thought he was black.

Donger
03-19-2008, 02:37 PM
Could be worse, I guess...

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OgtIqeV-6mk&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OgtIqeV-6mk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

SBK
03-19-2008, 02:40 PM
Could be worse, I guess...

<object height="355" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OgtIqeV-6mk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425"></object>

I saw this, wow.....

Sully
03-19-2008, 02:42 PM
I would use the doctrine of his church. That'd be a good place to start, and I even posted what his pastor has written and is on the website in this thread for your viewing pleasure.

As far as I can find, his church doesn't say black and white people are inequal. Perhaps in their standing in society, etc, but I don't think that's what you are referring to (let me know if I'm wrong).

SBK
03-19-2008, 02:43 PM
Here's another gem from that Clinton supporting preacher. ROFL

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/khuu-RhOBDU&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/khuu-RhOBDU&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

beer bacon
03-19-2008, 02:45 PM
We should have some contest where we take the three remaining candidates and see which one has the most bizarre religious figures to them. The problem is we would all probably end up voting for Nader.

SBK
03-19-2008, 02:45 PM
As far as I can find, his church doesn't say black and white people are inequal. Perhaps in their standing in society, etc, but I don't think that's what you are referring to (let me know if I'm wrong).

If they have unequal standing in society then they are unequal no? That's exactly what I was talking about. He doesn't believe that black folks and white folks are equal.

He can play the victim card, or he can go to a church that thinks you should kill God if he loves white people, but either way he's taking the position that there is inequality based upon our skintones, which is dead wrong.

vailpass
03-19-2008, 02:46 PM
Could be worse, I guess...

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OgtIqeV-6mk&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OgtIqeV-6mk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


Obama it turns out
Aint a trustworthy feller
His mama was white
Which makes him just high yeller'

Sully
03-19-2008, 02:49 PM
If they have unequal standing in society then they are unequal no? That's exactly what I was talking about. He doesn't believe that black folks and white folks are equal.

He can play the victim card, or he can go to a church that thinks you should kill God if he loves white people, but either way he's taking the position that there is inequality based upon our skintones, which is dead wrong.

You are misrepresenting what was actually said in your wiki quote. I don't know if you are doing it on purpose, or not. But either way, I think you should go re-examine it.

If all he is saying is black people and white people are on different standing in society, then I'd have to agree with him. That's not to say black people and white people are unequal, though. It's not saying the same thing, at all... not even close.

SBK
03-19-2008, 02:54 PM
You are misrepresenting what was actually said in your wiki quote. I don't know if you are doing it on purpose, or not. But either way, I think you should go re-examine it.

If all he is saying is black people and white people are on different standing in society, then I'd have to agree with him. That's not to say black people and white people are unequal, though. It's not saying the same thing, at all... not even close.

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

That doesn't sound like the teachings of equality to me. Maybe I misread this, or misunderstood you?

Sully
03-19-2008, 02:56 PM
I see nothing in there that speaks of killing a God because he loves white people.

ClevelandBronco
03-19-2008, 03:09 PM
Here's another gem from that Clinton supporting preacher. ROFL

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/khuu-RhOBDU&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/khuu-RhOBDU&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Clearly I need to visit more churches. My pastor blindly insists on sticking to something called the Bible.

beer bacon
03-19-2008, 03:09 PM
Clearly I need to visit more churches. My pastor blindly insists on sticking to something called the Bible.

This is probably the most controversial statement of all.

HonestChieffan
03-19-2008, 03:14 PM
Its a new sport.You outed our loonie so now we must be compelled to find loonies everywhere.

memyselfI
03-19-2008, 03:21 PM
Well he was getting slammed in the over 65 white woman demographic anyway...

might as well throw Grandma AND her friends under the train. :D

patteeu
03-19-2008, 04:51 PM
I see nothing in there that speaks of killing a God because he loves white people.

Do you see anything in that quote that is objectionable? If so, what?

mlyonsd
03-19-2008, 05:54 PM
I read the transcript of the speech and came away with this.

Maybe I'm not paying enough attention but he seemed to understand and explain predjudices on both sides of the issue, black and white. That was a first for me. He understands why whites can have resentment when it comes to entitlements, affirmative action etc. Could he be 'the uniter'? I don't know but it was refreshing to hear someone in his position to acknowledge the prejudices on both sides equally.

The down side for me was his inability to distance himself from Wright. I've been to church hundreds of times and never heard an objectional sermon. If I did I know I wouldn't be back, especially with my children.

To keep taking the family is being part of the problem, not the solution. Since this was a political speech some of the uniter rhetoric got lost on me since I can't accept his reasoning for staying in the church.

Maybe if he would have admitted he understood he himself was part of the problem I'd have thought it was a Kennedy level speech.

Logical
03-19-2008, 06:02 PM
Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

That doesn't sound like the teachings of equality to me. Maybe I misread this, or misunderstood you?


Link to the Church saying that please, I want to see those words for myself.

Sully
03-19-2008, 06:17 PM
Do you see anything in that quote that is objectionable? If so, what?

I'd prefer if it said "enemy" instead of "white enemy." But I don't think in the context of the passage that it is racist, but I do think it sounds a bit paranoid. Otherwise I have absolutely no problem with the quote.

Logical
03-19-2008, 07:10 PM
What a ridiculous strawman, nice bait job patteeeu.

Logical
03-19-2008, 07:13 PM
Wow...we're down to reaching this far.

Some fierce fear you guys have of running against this guy.Exactly and the fear starts with Hannity.:rolleyes:

wazu
03-19-2008, 07:46 PM
I personally thought his speech as a whole was very good, but I did cringe a little when he threw his grandmother under the bus.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 08:26 PM
He said he couldn't disown her. He used the same preface with Wright. Either he threw both under the bus or he threw neither.

Iowanian
03-19-2008, 08:32 PM
"Barak, We're having chicken and noodles for sunday dinner"

"GASP! GRANDMAMA??!!"
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s278/jay8wonder/_racist.gif

go bowe
03-19-2008, 08:45 PM
You should invite your pastor to log on to chiefs planet and review your enthusiastic opposition to Obama. Maybe your pastor could give you good advice about it.

Like I said, the hyenas and vultures like Hannity are hoping for a carcass, I think it best for our country that they stay hungry.

Obama was right about how guys like that make their living off of feeding racial resentment in the demographic to which you belong.oooh oooh...

can i belong to that demographic too?

uh, which demographic is it that we are joining?

StcChief
03-19-2008, 08:53 PM
He said he couldn't disown her. He used the same preface with Wright. Either he threw both under the bus or he threw neither.
he can't make up his mind today. to early in the politcal game to gauge what is the worse fall out.

Logical
03-19-2008, 08:56 PM
Well hell let me throw the only Dad I ever knew (granted he has been my stepfather since I was one) and that I love under the bus. He is a racist, no if and or buts, hell he would admit it. There I have joined Obama in the awful people club.

go bowe
03-19-2008, 08:59 PM
I almost fell off my bed laughing when I heard Sean Hannity claim Obama was wrong for 'throwing his grandmother under the bus'.

The predictability and the desire to downplay/ignore white racism was just too much to handle.

I'm not surprised Pat is taking his cues from him.

What, no thread accusing Obama of being a racist and anti-semite? How about another topic demanding Obama not only drop out of the race, but resign from his senate seat?you mean he hasn't done that yet?

his campaign staff had better get a hold of themselves lest they drop into disarray like hillary's campaign staff...

ChiefaRoo
03-19-2008, 09:12 PM
You know what guys? I don't think there are very many "racists" left in the US as a percentage of the population and I wish people would quit throwing that word around so loosely. I mean, Hitler was a racist (and a genocidal a-hole) ladies and gentlemen so lets at least try to understand the word in the proper context.

I think what most people confuse as racism is actually pregidous and pregidous is something that we aren't going to eliminate. I have pregidous thoughts and feelings and so do you because it's normal for humans to make judgements both personally and in society. In fact, we should make judgements otherwise you're just some dumbarse drone wandering around.

I choose to believe this pastor Wright guy is a viscious a-hole and because Obama was mentored by him and supports him I choose to lower my opinion of Obama and I am going to freely pass judgement on him because of my pregidous. Aww the freedom to judge. How I love it so.

Seriously, If we just concentrate on treating the people we meet each day with respect, honesty and goodwill that's really all that needs to be done to keep our society civil.

wazu
03-19-2008, 09:34 PM
He said he couldn't disown her. He used the same preface with Wright. Either he threw both under the bus or he threw neither.

Wright is a public figure already under public fire. And Wright said his things with cameras rolling before hundreds of people, wanting to broadcast his message as far as possible.

Grandmother just thought she was talking to a family member in private. There is no comparison.

SBK
03-19-2008, 09:35 PM
Link to the Church saying that please, I want to see those words for myself.

Here's links and everything, you must have missed post #18?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4638776&postcount=18

SBK
03-19-2008, 09:37 PM
I see nothing in there that speaks of killing a God because he loves white people.

Let me help you out.

If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him

Seems pretty clear to me. :eek:

SBK
03-19-2008, 09:39 PM
I'd prefer if it said "enemy" instead of "white enemy." But I don't think in the context of the passage that it is racist, but I do think it sounds a bit paranoid. Otherwise I have absolutely no problem with the quote.

Many followers of Christ will have a problem with these statements because Jesus taught to love your enemies. That and the whole killing God thing.

Each person is going to read them differently I know, I just don't know how anyone could say that they're anything worthwhile to anyone.

jettio
03-19-2008, 09:58 PM
oooh oooh...

can i belong to that demographic too?

uh, which demographic is it that we are joining?


There is an inverse relationship between IQ and ability to tune into and tolerate certain radio personalities.

You might have to good a mind to be able to listen to those guys.

If you have a good mind, listening to guys like Limbaugh and Hannity makes your head hurt and is like asking for brain damage.

ClevelandBronco
03-19-2008, 10:05 PM
There is an inverse relationship between IQ and ability to tune into and tolerate certain radio personalities.

You might have to good a mind to be able to listen to those guys.

If you have a good mind, listening to guys like Limbaugh and Hannity makes your head hurt and is like asking for brain damage.

Note to everyone on the Internet: Check your grammar and your spelling whenever you're trying to score intelligence points.

jettio
03-19-2008, 10:06 PM
Wright is a public figure already under public fire. And Wright said his things with cameras rolling before hundreds of people, wanting to broadcast his message as far as possible.

Grandmother just thought she was talking to a family member in private. There is no comparison.

You don't seem to get the point that Obama was making.

I think Obama used plain language and that it was not a highbrow speech.

Nobody in your family or among your friends ever said anything that you would not want to have said in polite company?

I know I have been in situations where people said things that they would not say around a different audience.

Unless you keep company with nothing but saints, you ought to be able to figure out what point he was making.

wazu
03-19-2008, 10:09 PM
You don't seem to get the point that Obama was making.

I think Obama used plain language and that it was not a highbrow speech.

Nobody in your family or among your friends ever said anything that you would not want to have said in polite company?

I know I have been in situations where people said things that they would not say around a different audience.

Unless you keep company with nothing but saints, you ought to be able to figure out what point he was making.

I know the point he was making, and it's actually a good one. But that doesn't justify the personal betrayal. Just because we all know he is cool with it, and we have all had similar situations in our own lives, does not make it okay that he "outed" somebody who loved and trusted him.

jettio
03-19-2008, 10:17 PM
I know the point he was making, and it's actually a good one. But that doesn't justify the personal betrayal. Just because we all know he is cool with it, and we have all had similar situations in our own lives, does not make it okay that he "outed" somebody who loved and trusted him.

They have phones in Hawaii, maybe he discussed the speech with her over the weekend while he wrote it.

I suppose I could speculate like you and figure that Grandma Dunham might like to see the son of the daughter that died before her become the President of the United States.

People seem to be bending over backwards to cry about other people's imagined injuries.

Logical
03-19-2008, 10:18 PM
Here's links and everything, you must have missed post #18?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4638776&postcount=18


I don't find those words anywhere on the linked page. Here is the entire text of the linked page. Please find them.

Dr. Wright’s talking points (3.1.7) for Trinity United Church of Christ its Web site and the Black Value System (in response to Erik Rush’s comments (2.28.07) on the Hannity and Colmes show):
• One of the biggest gaps in knowledge that causes the kind of ignorance that you hear spouted by this man [Erik Rush] and those like him, has to do with the fact that these persons are completely ignorant when it comes to the Black religious tradition. The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology.
• Black theology is one of the many theologies in the Americas that became popular during the liberation theology movement. They include Hispanic theology, Native American theology, Asian theology and Womanist theology.
• I use the word “systematized” because Black liberation theology was in existence long before Dr. Cone’s book. It originates in the days of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. It was systematized and published by theologians, Old Testament scholars, New Testament scholars, ethicists, church historians, and historians of religion such as Dr. James Cone, Dr. Cain Hope Felder, Dr. Gayraud Wilmore, Dr. Jacqueline Grant, Dr. Kelley Brown Douglas, Dr. Renita Weems, Dr. Katie Cannon, Dr. Dwight Hopkins, Dr. Linda Thomas, and Dr. Randall Bailey.
• These scholars, who write in various disciplines, also include seminary presidents like Dr. John Kinney and professors of Hebrew Bible, like Dr. Jerome Ross. Black liberation theology defines Africans and African Americans as subjects – not the objects which colonizers and oppressors have consistently defined “others” as.
• We [African Americans] were always seen as objects. When we started defining ourselves, it scared those who try to control others by naming them and defining them for them; Oppressors do not like “others” defining themselves.
• To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African American people are superior to any one else.
• African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.
• There is more than one center from which to view the world. In the words of Dr. Janice Hale, “Difference does not mean deficience.” It is from this vantage point that Black liberation theology speaks.
• Systematized Black liberation theology is 40 years old. Scholars of African and African American religious history show that Black liberation theology, however, has been in existence for 400 years. It is found in the songs, the sermons, the testimonies and the oral literature of Africans throughout the Diaspora.
|By the way I am looking specifically for these words:

If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill himI don't see much of anything you wrote in the post I quoted and asked about for that matter.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 10:32 PM
Grandmother just thought she was talking to a family member in private. There is no comparison.

Racism is racism. Obama tried to bring the point home in that manner and even alluded to the fact that most of this racial dialogue talks place in private and outside the company of people it would offend. And that doesn't make it any more right.

stevieray
03-19-2008, 10:52 PM
another important person in his life with racist tendancies?

sad...

go bowe
03-19-2008, 10:52 PM
I read the transcript of the speech and came away with this.

Maybe I'm not paying enough attention but he seemed to understand and explain predjudices on both sides of the issue, black and white. That was a first for me. He understands why whites can have resentment when it comes to entitlements, affirmative action etc. Could he be 'the uniter'? I don't know but it was refreshing to hear someone in his position to acknowledge the prejudices on both sides equally.

The down side for me was his inability to distance himself from Wright. I've been to church hundreds of times and never heard an objectional sermon. If I did I know I wouldn't be back, especially with my children.

To keep taking the family is being part of the problem, not the solution. Since this was a political speech some of the uniter rhetoric got lost on me since I can't accept his reasoning for staying in the church.

Maybe if he would have admitted he understood he himself was part of the problem I'd have thought it was a Kennedy level speech.kennedy level speech?

ok, where is mlyonsd and what have you done with him?

go bowe
03-19-2008, 10:56 PM
No doubt. Contrary to some of the magical, hope-filled claims of Obama supporters, they're all just politicians.jeeze, what have you got against magic anyway?

stevieray
03-19-2008, 10:59 PM
White racism?

media hype.

SBK
03-19-2008, 11:00 PM
I don't find those words anywhere on the linked page. Here is the entire text of the linked page. Please find them.

|By the way I am looking specifically for these words:

I don't see much of anything you wrote in the post I quoted and asked about for that matter.

I recommend a reading comprehension course then. Let me put the pieces together for you......

• One of the biggest gaps in knowledge that causes the kind of ignorance that you hear spouted by this man [Erik Rush] and those like him, has to do with the fact that these persons are completely ignorant when it comes to the Black religious tradition. The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology.

and from post #18.

So who is James Cone? (I won't even say that perhaps a good book for churches to get their theology from would be the bible.)

According to wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone)

Dr. Cone has explained the his theology as follows<sup id="_ref-0" class="reference">[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-0)</sup>,<sup id="_ref-1" class="reference">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-1)</sup>,<sup id="_ref-2" class="reference">[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone#_note-2)</sup> Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

Now for the comprehension part. The vision statement of this church, as stated by it's founder, is based upon the book by Cone. The God is not for us and we should kill him part is from Cone's book, which is what forms the vision statement of the church, according to the pastor himself.

So he didn't use these words in a sermon, he used them in the formation of his vision for the church.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 11:06 PM
White racism?

media hype.

IT DOESNT EXIST NOTHING TO SEE HERE lalalalalalalala

stevieray
03-19-2008, 11:09 PM
IT DOESNT EXIST NOTHING TO SEE HERE lalalalalalalala

you are a coward. nothing more. nothing less.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 11:09 PM
another important person in his life with racist tendancies?

sad...

He must hate both halves of himself. It's the only logical conclusion one could draw.

stevieray
03-19-2008, 11:10 PM
He must hate both halves of himself. It's the only logical conclusion one could draw.

misery loves company, coward.

go bowe
03-19-2008, 11:16 PM
Well hell let me throw the only Dad I ever knew (granted he has been my stepfather since I was one) and that I love under the bus. He is a racist, no if and or buts, hell he would admit it. There I have joined Obama in the awful people club.my grandpa was a man of his times and was racist through and through...

his son, my dad, didn't speak publicly about his views on race, but in private conversations there could be no doubt about the intensity of his prejudice...

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 11:18 PM
If I'm a coward then you're a doodoo head.

HolmeZz
03-19-2008, 11:26 PM
Well hell let me throw the only Dad I ever knew (granted he has been my stepfather since I was one) and that I love under the bus. He is a racist, no if and or buts, hell he would admit it. There I have joined Obama in the awful people club.

Everyone has these close connections. There are just some people, as evidenced by this forum, that don't know how to address race and have been of the opinion that it's really no longer an issue in this country. And by discussing it to any degree, they're admitting it is in fact an issue.

Logical
03-19-2008, 11:35 PM
I recommend a reading comprehension course then. Let me put the pieces together for you......



and from post #18.



Now for the comprehension part. The vision statement of this church, as stated by it's founder, is based upon the book by Cone. The God is not for us and we should kill him part is from Cone's book, which is what forms the vision statement of the church, according to the pastor himself.

So he didn't use these words in a sermon, he used them in the formation of his vision for the church.

I did not find it anywhere on there web page and all you seem to be doing is putting your spin on words that are not there as quoted.

Sorry that won't work.

go bowe
03-19-2008, 11:35 PM
you are a coward. nothing more. nothing less.well, he's a chiefs fan...

that should count for something...

besides, it is the refs that screw us up, especially when we play denver...

i know this for a fact, a fact i tell you...

i have it on good authority... :) :) :)

SBK
03-19-2008, 11:55 PM
I did not find it anywhere on there web page and all you seem to be doing is putting your spin on words that are not there as quoted.

Sorry that won't work.

It's a wikipedia link, linked to post 18. Why bother though right?

patteeu
03-19-2008, 11:56 PM
I'd prefer if it said "enemy" instead of "white enemy." But I don't think in the context of the passage that it is racist, but I do think it sounds a bit paranoid. Otherwise I have absolutely no problem with the quote.

I can see how you could avoid seeing it as racist by saying that it only condemns white ENEMIES as opposed to all whites, but the inclusion of the "white" qualifier is too much for me to give the author the benefit of the doubt like that. Anyone who sees life through that thick of a racial prism is a problem and a roadblock to better race relations, IMO. I find it unacceptable.

SBK
03-19-2008, 11:56 PM
I did not find it anywhere on there web page and all you seem to be doing is putting your spin on words that are not there as quoted.

Sorry that won't work.

Seriously, don't bother. If you can't put 2 and 2 together, or if your black experience as an old white man is something I can't understand there's no point in discussing it right? :D

patteeu
03-19-2008, 11:57 PM
What a ridiculous strawman, nice bait job patteeeu.

What are you talking about? I'm just trying to get down to brass tacks.

patteeu
03-20-2008, 12:00 AM
He said he couldn't disown her. He used the same preface with Wright. Either he threw both under the bus or he threw neither.

There it is again. Suggesting that there is some kind of equivalence between Obama's grandma and Rev. Wright as though it's just as offensive to be concerned about a specific individual black man who appeared ready to commit assault (or even about black men in general on the street) as it is to preach that the US government invented AIDS to commit genocide against people of color.

patteeu
03-20-2008, 12:09 AM
I don't find those words anywhere on the linked page. Here is the entire text of the linked page. Please find them.

|By the way I am looking specifically for these words:

I don't see much of anything you wrote in the post I quoted and asked about for that matter.

Don't be obtuse. The TUCC website embraces a "systemized liberation theology" that has it's origins in a book written by a Dr. James Cone called Black Power and Black Theology. The words that SBK is concerned about are attributed to this Dr. James Cone. So instead of one level removed from Obama, it is two levels removed. Personally, I find the TUCC statements about their mission to be offensive enough on their own without seeing that they've been based on the writings of another radical.

patteeu
03-20-2008, 12:10 AM
kennedy level speech?

ok, where is mlyonsd and what have you done with him?

As it turned out, it was more of a Jamie Kennedy level speech. :p

Logical
03-20-2008, 12:22 AM
Don't be obtuse. The TUCC website embraces a "systemized liberation theology" that has it's origins in a book written by a Dr. James Cone called Black Power and Black Theology. The words that SBK is concerned about are attributed to this Dr. James Cone. So instead of one level removed from Obama, it is two levels removed. Personally, I find the TUCC statements about their mission to be offensive enough on their own without seeing that they've been based on the writings of another radical.

He tried to make it sound like it was the church's statement and clearly it is not. So now we are trying to smear Obama from sources twice removed? Seems pretty shameless if you ask me.

SBK
03-20-2008, 12:26 AM
He tried to make it sound like it was the church's statement and clearly it is not. So now we are trying to smear Obama from sources twice removed? Seems pretty shameless if you ask me.

So the pastor stating on the church website that the vision of the church is based upon that book makes me shameless?

I hope you're so forgiving the next time some conservative preacher says something stupid.

SBK
03-20-2008, 12:35 AM
He tried to make it sound like it was the church's statement and clearly it is not. So now we are trying to smear Obama from sources twice removed? Seems pretty shameless if you ask me.

Oh, and I did not say it was the churches statement. If you go back and actually read it you'll see I attributed it to the correct person. The issue is that the writings I included form the vision of this church.

And while I'm at it let me tell you what fascinates me about this story. Do I think Obama is a bad man or anything, no. It's fantastic to see a man of such humble beginnings make it so far in his life, and it should serve as an inspiration to many.

This story fascinates me because Obama is so much closer tied to a crazy preacher than any of the righties than have been crucified by the left for something said by a preacher. But because Obama is a liberal he is getting an absolute pass.

It fascinates me that people who are so offended by people like Trent Lott, or Pat Robertson, or the like are totally ok with Wright because he's liberal. It's crazy.

I would have thought that more people here would have condemned the hate filled and ignorant things that Wright said, and demand that Obama apologize or resign. Not that I think he should resign, but I am amazed at the laughable hypocrisy. So I do not "smell blood" or want to "hate" Obama. This whole thing is an amazing window into the liberal mind. If a pastor says something dumb but is a conservative, the pastor and candidate have to kiss everyones butt and resign. If a liberal pastor says something obscene, it cannot be counted against the candidate (who's much, much closer to his pastor than the conservative who had to resign.) We're told we don't understand race, or that we're racist. When it's nothing of the sort. It's hypocrisy, and it's pretty funny to watch.

I really hope Obama gets the nom on the dem side. He's a classic liberal, nothing more, nothing less, and unfortunately this country doesn't elect classic liberals. Well, if McCain gets elected I guess we've come pretty darn close though right? :D

Anyway, just a hunch on my part, but these threads are going to get a lot of play next time the left goes nuts on some conservative over something that someone else has said.

HolmeZz
03-20-2008, 01:06 AM
There it is again. Suggesting that there is some kind of equivalence between Obama's grandma and Rev. Wright as though it's just as offensive to be concerned about a specific individual black man who appeared ready to commit assault (or even about black men in general on the street) as it is to preach that the US government invented AIDS to commit genocide against people of color.

WTF where did you come up with 'appeared ready to commit assault'? LMAO

The point wasn't to draw equivalence to the sentiments. It was a way to go about tying us all together. We all don't have someone as outspoken as Reverend Wright in our lives, but we do have our Grandma Dunhams. You can ignore that fact all you'd like and try to pass it off as 'throwing someone under the bus', but it doesn't make it any less real.

patteeu
03-20-2008, 01:35 AM
He tried to make it sound like it was the church's statement and clearly it is not. So now we are trying to smear Obama from sources twice removed? Seems pretty shameless if you ask me.

Like it or not, the author endorsed by the church's website reflects on the church and the church reflects on it's members. How much or how little you choose to let that impact your opinion of Obama is, of course, your own concern.

patteeu
03-20-2008, 01:43 AM
WTF where did you come up with 'appeared ready to commit assault'? LMAO

The point wasn't to draw equivalence to the sentiments. It was a way to go about tying us all together. We all don't have someone as outspoken as Reverend Wright in our lives, but we do have our Grandma Dunhams. You can ignore that fact all you'd like and try to pass it off as 'throwing someone under the bus', but it doesn't make it any less real.

A passage from Obama's book is quoted on the source page for the OP. In it, Obama quotes his grandma:

"Her lips pursed with irritation. 'He was very aggressive, Barry. Very aggressive. I gave him a dollar and he kept asking. If the bus hadn't come, I think he might have hit me over the head."

I believe you when you say that your point wasn't to draw equivalence. I absolutely think that that is what Obama was doing in an effort to diminish the controversial nature of Rev. Wright's statements by equating them to something much less controversial that people are more likely to be able to relate to.

Even if it were true that we all have someone like Obama's mother in our lives, it's absolutely not true that we've all chosen to embrace someone like Rev. Wright in our lives.

Sully
03-20-2008, 07:13 AM
Let me help you out.



Seems pretty clear to me. :eek:

It still doesn't say what you want it to say. It simply does NOT say kill God if he loves white people. Obviously God loves white people, as well as black, purple and mauve.

If someone was speaking of a God "against" one people and "for" another, do you think they'd be talking about a real God? Or perhaps an idea of a God, created by others, that disincludes them from the discussion of said God, that they long to destroy? I think the answer to that is pretty clear.

Sully
03-20-2008, 07:18 AM
I can see how you could avoid seeing it as racist by saying that it only condemns white ENEMIES as opposed to all whites, but the inclusion of the "white" qualifier is too much for me to give the author the benefit of the doubt like that. Anyone who sees life through that thick of a racial prism is a problem and a roadblock to better race relations, IMO. I find it unacceptable.

I'd agree that, as evidenced by Wright's comments, there is a generational thing taking place here, where those who carried a heavier yoke of racism are in too "static" of a frame of mind when it comes to race relations over time. The great thing is that Obama believes the same thing, and said as much the other day.

jettio
03-20-2008, 07:28 AM
Oh, and I did not say it was the churches statement. If you go back and actually read it you'll see I attributed it to the correct person. The issue is that the writings I included form the vision of this church.

And while I'm at it let me tell you what fascinates me about this story. Do I think Obama is a bad man or anything, no. It's fantastic to see a man of such humble beginnings make it so far in his life, and it should serve as an inspiration to many.

This story fascinates me because Obama is so much closer tied to a crazy preacher than any of the righties than have been crucified by the left for something said by a preacher. But because Obama is a liberal he is getting an absolute pass.

It fascinates me that people who are so offended by people like Trent Lott, or Pat Robertson, or the like are totally ok with Wright because he's liberal. It's crazy.

I would have thought that more people here would have condemned the hate filled and ignorant things that Wright said, and demand that Obama apologize or resign. Not that I think he should resign, but I am amazed at the laughable hypocrisy. So I do not "smell blood" or want to "hate" Obama. This whole thing is an amazing window into the liberal mind. If a pastor says something dumb but is a conservative, the pastor and candidate have to kiss everyones butt and resign. If a liberal pastor says something obscene, it cannot be counted against the candidate (who's much, much closer to his pastor than the conservative who had to resign.) We're told we don't understand race, or that we're racist. When it's nothing of the sort. It's hypocrisy, and it's pretty funny to watch.

I really hope Obama gets the nom on the dem side. He's a classic liberal, nothing more, nothing less, and unfortunately this country doesn't elect classic liberals. Well, if McCain gets elected I guess we've come pretty darn close though right? :D

Anyway, just a hunch on my part, but these threads are going to get a lot of play next time the left goes nuts on some conservative over something that someone else has said.

Have you yet told your pastor about logging on to chiefs planet so that he can help you with your problem of staying up all hours of the night going out of your way to put words in Obama's mouth.

Your a bit overzealous and you can just not vote for the dude. If you want to be part of the Hannity hyena pack and go out of your ways to sell a false idea of Obama you might mess yourself up more than anything else.

stevieray
03-20-2008, 07:32 AM
It's fun watching jettio accuse people of the exact same thing he's done for the last five years...must ease his guilty conscience.


..on a bigger scale..this is one of the main reasons this country is so divided...
jerry springer politics..

jettio
03-20-2008, 07:50 AM
It's fun watching jettio accuse people of the exact same thing he's done for the last five years...must ease his guilty conscience.


..on a bigger scale..this is one of the main reasons this country is so divided...
jerry springer politics..

Do you care to explain?

What do you mean by "exact same thing?"

patteeu
03-20-2008, 07:56 AM
I'd agree that, as evidenced by Wright's comments, there is a generational thing taking place here, where those who carried a heavier yoke of racism are in too "static" of a frame of mind when it comes to race relations over time. The great thing is that Obama believes the same thing, and said as much the other day.

I agree that Obama said the same thing. That's the part of his speech that I thought was good. It's the part that I think he's hoping will provide a smokescreen for the implications of the rest of his speech.

I think the words he said about race relations were very good, but it's hard to reconcile those words with a guy who has embraced Jeremiah Wright for 20 years and who has said he wouldn't have a guy like Don Imus working for him. On this Wright issue, we've seen Obama gradually concede his awareness of Wright's controversial statements step by step as it's become necessary. That's not the courage of a statesmen bent on bridging a gap, but the spin of a normal politician bent on winning an election. Obama's primary selling point has been that he wants to elevate politics and set a higher standard, but this issue has been what should be a jarring wake-up call to those attracted to that message. He says in his speech that it's time to end racial divisiveness and that he's the man to facilitate this change, but after 20 years at TUCC, how much change did he facilitate there? How much did he even try? During all those years that he brought his children to hear Rev. Wright, did he speak out even once?

Sully
03-20-2008, 09:15 AM
I agree that Obama said the same thing. That's the part of his speech that I thought was good. It's the part that I think he's hoping will provide a smokescreen for the implications of the rest of his speech.

I think the words he said about race relations were very good, but it's hard to reconcile those words with a guy who has embraced Jeremiah Wright for 20 years and who has said he wouldn't have a guy like Don Imus working for him. On this Wright issue, we've seen Obama gradually concede his awareness of Wright's controversial statements step by step as it's become necessary. That's not the courage of a statesmen bent on bridging a gap, but the spin of a normal politician bent on winning an election. Obama's primary selling point has been that he wants to elevate politics and set a higher standard, but this issue has been what should be a jarring wake-up call to those attracted to that message. He says in his speech that it's time to end racial divisiveness and that he's the man to facilitate this change, but after 20 years at TUCC, how much change did he facilitate there? How much did he even try? During all those years that he brought his children to hear Rev. Wright, did he speak out even once?

And again, we are back to this myth that for 20 years, this is all Wright preached on... that his message that we saw in 40 seconds of clips is representative of his totality in the pulpit. you choose to believe that is so, I choose to believe, based on respect for Wright in ministerial circles that his message was like that a mere fraction of a percentage. Obama made clear that he didn't always agree with Wright's message, but that the balance of his ministry to him was positive and life changing. I have absolutely no evidence that would lead me not to believe him. Hell, I'd say disagreement with a minister is a beautiful thing, no matter the amount. If you disagree, do you stand up and yell? Do you leave the church? Do you hold a press conference? I wouldn't. (Of course, I'm not a politician) But who is to say Obama didn't sit with this man and discuss some of the more controversial things he heard? Who is to say he didn't sit down with his children and explain the difference between the things he heard that he disagreed with and the things he agreed with, and explain to them that it's okay to sit in the pews and not become a mindless zombie, believing every word they heard, but rather listen with a critical and curious mind...and question? I don't know the answer to that, but I assume our default positions of you not believing in any good in the man, and me seeing some integrity in him will put us at odds on the issue.

patteeu
03-20-2008, 09:30 AM
And again, we are back to this myth that for 20 years, this is all Wright preached on... that his message that we saw in 40 seconds of clips is representative of his totality in the pulpit. you choose to believe that is so, I choose to believe, based on respect for Wright in ministerial circles that his message was like that a mere fraction of a percentage. Obama made clear that he didn't always agree with Wright's message, but that the balance of his ministry to him was positive and life changing. I have absolutely no evidence that would lead me not to believe him. Hell, I'd say disagreement with a minister is a beautiful thing, no matter the amount. If you disagree, do you stand up and yell? Do you leave the church? Do you hold a press conference? I wouldn't. (Of course, I'm not a politician) But who is to say Obama didn't sit with this man and discuss some of the more controversial things he heard? Who is to say he didn't sit down with his children and explain the difference between the things he heard that he disagreed with and the things he agreed with, and explain to them that it's okay to sit in the pews and not become a mindless zombie, believing every word they heard, but rather listen with a critical and curious mind...and question? I don't know the answer to that, but I assume our default positions of you not believing in any good in the man, and me seeing some integrity in him will put us at odds on the issue.

Yeah, we probably aren't going to agree on this because I think it's far-fetched to accept, on the one hand, that generational rage is an understandable part of Jeremiah Wright's very being but, on the other hand, Obama spent 19 years in a close relationship with the man without becoming aware of it. And I don't understand how you can give the man so much benefit of the doubt that you give him a pass on waiting a year to narrowly denounce his pastor's hateful words and then give him two or three chances to recharacterize his position as he retreats only as far as he needs to to cover each new revelation. After such typical politician behavior, in the words of Hillary Clinton, his claim to be the man who can bridge this racial divide requires the "willing suspension of disbelief", IMO.

StcChief
03-20-2008, 09:33 AM
Yeah, we probably aren't going to agree on this because I think it's far-fetched to accept, on the one hand, that generational rage is an understandable part of Jeremiah Wright's very being but, on the other hand, Obama spent 19 years in a close relationship with the man without becoming aware of it. And I don't understand how you can give the man so much benefit of the doubt that you give him a pass on waiting a year to narrowly denounce his pastor's hateful words and then give him two or three chances to recharacterize his position as he retreats only as far as he needs to to cover each new revelation. After such typical politician behavior, in the words of Hillary Clinton, his claim to be the man who can bridge this racial divide requires the "willing suspension of disbelief", IMO.

yeah there is more to this than meets the eye. but in political speak, he's trying damage control and keep all constituents, interested parties, and support. (I can be all to everyone).

BucEyedPea
03-20-2008, 10:05 AM
What's wrong with damage control? Don't all candidates do it?
I mean the Bush WH has even done it.

StcChief
03-20-2008, 10:11 AM
grandma obama racist

Cave Johnson
03-20-2008, 10:21 AM
Song starts at 1:45.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x9CSnlb-ymA&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x9CSnlb-ymA&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

jettio
03-20-2008, 10:26 AM
Yeah, we probably aren't going to agree on this because I think it's far-fetched to accept, on the one hand, that generational rage is an understandable part of Jeremiah Wright's very being but, on the other hand, Obama spent 19 years in a close relationship with the man without becoming aware of it. And I don't understand how you can give the man so much benefit of the doubt that you give him a pass on waiting a year to narrowly denounce his pastor's hateful words and then give him two or three chances to recharacterize his position as he retreats only as far as he needs to to cover each new revelation. After such typical politician behavior, in the words of Hillary Clinton, his claim to be the man who can bridge this racial divide requires the "willing suspension of disbelief", IMO.

That is not what he said and you know that he did not say that.

You ought to start watching re-runs of Leave it to Beaver and the Cosby Show.

You need some remedial ethics training.

You can't figure out that you and B*sh sold a war intended to create an Iraqi Utopian democracy on the false pretense of fear of an imminent attack from destructive weapons. That is lying, as is arguing against words that you put into someones else's mouth.

|Zach|
03-20-2008, 10:59 AM
Don't be obtuse.

:spock:ROFLROFL

Baby Lee
03-20-2008, 12:41 PM
That is lying, as is arguing against words that you put into someones else's mouth.

You mean like saying people who distrust that Obama doesn't share Wright's racial resentments are saying he's a racial supremicist?

patteeu
03-20-2008, 12:58 PM
That is not what he said and you know that he did not say that.

You ought to start watching re-runs of Leave it to Beaver and the Cosby Show.

You need some remedial ethics training.

You can't figure out that you and B*sh sold a war intended to create an Iraqi Utopian democracy on the false pretense of fear of an imminent attack from destructive weapons. That is lying, as is arguing against words that you put into someones else's mouth.

I didn't quote the man directly. I implore you to explain to me how my characterization of what he said is wrong.

Alternatively, if I'm wrong about what he said and he did actually understand how twisted with rage his pastor was, why didn't he put on his Captain Uniter cape and do some uniting?

And this isn't the thread to argue about Bush and the Iraq war, but rest assured that I find your allegations on that count to be both humorous and farcical.

jettio
03-20-2008, 01:06 PM
You mean like saying people who distrust that Obama doesn't share Wright's racial resentments are saying he's a racial supremicist?

You might ask the people that are trying to make Obama responsible for his pastor's words exactly what they mean when they use the terms they use.

Seems to me that there is a difference between a concerned voter who had considered voting for him and now wants Obama to answer those concerns before choosing a candidate and the hyenas and vultures like Hannity, honestchiefan, SBK and patteeu who would just love to feed on the carcass of Obama's candidacy because they are dismayed by the fact of Obama having a chance to win.

The hyenas and vultures don't care about what Obama's real beliefs are and I can criticize them without you thinking I am criticizing everyone.

Sully
03-20-2008, 01:13 PM
You might ask the people that are trying to make Obama responsible for his pastor's words exactly what they mean when they use the terms they use.

Seems to me that there is a difference between a concerned voter who had considered voting for him and now wants Obama to answer those concerns before choosing a candidate and the hyenas and vultures like Hannity, honestchiefan, SBK and patteeu who would just love to feed on the carcass of Obama's candidacy because they are dismayed by the fact of Obama having a chance to win.

The hyenas and vultures don't care about what Obama's real beliefs are and I can criticize them without you thinking I am criticizing everyone.

It's not a carcass.
Far from it IMO.
I think Obama has explained himself well, and though he has to rebound from this rough patch, I think he's in good shape.

patteeu
03-20-2008, 01:15 PM
You might ask the people that are trying to make Obama responsible for his pastor's words exactly what they mean when they use the terms they use.

Seems to me that there is a difference between a concerned voter who had considered voting for him and now wants Obama to answer those concerns before choosing a candidate and the hyenas and vultures like Hannity, honestchiefan, SBK and patteeu who would just love to feed on the carcass of Obama's candidacy because they are dismayed by the fact of Obama having a chance to win.

The hyenas and vultures don't care about what Obama's real beliefs are and I can criticize them without you thinking I am criticizing everyone.

I care a great deal about what Obama's real beliefs are. That's why, despite not being much of a McCain fan, I want McCain to be the next President of the US. I want Obama to win the nomination because I have some fear of Hillary and I know that her "dirt" has already largely been vetted. Obama has little going for him aside from the legend he's built about being a mythical statesman who is post-partisan, post-racial, and post-political. That legend is in the process of dying but, hopefully, it won't be enough to allow Hillary to rip the nomination out of his clutches. However, if Hillary does somehow end up as the nominee, hopefully it will be after a process that alienates as many of her potential voters as possible. Given the headwind that Republicans are sailing into this fall, I couldn't really ask for more.

jettio
03-20-2008, 01:16 PM
I didn't quote the man directly. I implore you to explain to me how my characterization of what he said is wrong.

Alternatively, if I'm wrong about what he said and he did actually understand how twisted with rage his pastor was, why didn't he put on his Captain Uniter cape and do some uniting?

And this isn't the thread to argue about Bush and the Iraq war, but rest assured that I find your allegations on that count to be both humorous and farcical.

On last Friday, Obama said that he did not attend any of the services featured in the videos.

The hyenas and vultures like you have tried to twist that around and say that he claims to have been unaware of the fact that Wright has said offensive things from the pulpit.

The hyenas and vultures say that even though it is public knowledge that Obama disinvited him from giving the invocation at the announcement of his candidacy at the state capitol in Springfield, and an April 2007 NY Times article when he and the reverend acknowledged that the reverend's words could be used against Obama in the campaign.

You may have fooled yourself in regards to B*sh, but you better be more accurate if you want to have a meal fit for a hyena because there is still a better chance that the electorate will care more about what is fair and true than believing dishonest enemies.

memyselfI
03-20-2008, 01:18 PM
On last Friday, Obama said that he did not attend any of the services featured in the videos.

The hyenas and vultures like you have tried to twist that around and say that he claims to have been unaware of the fact that Wright has said offensive things from the pulpit.



Deep breath. Kumbaya. HE is uniter. Kumbaya.

jettio
03-20-2008, 01:37 PM
I care a great deal about what Obama's real beliefs are. That's why, despite not being much of a McCain fan, I want McCain to be the next President of the US. I want Obama to win the nomination because I have some fear of Hillary and I know that her "dirt" has already largely been vetted. Obama has little going for him aside from the legend he's built about being a mythical statesman who is post-partisan, post-racial, and post-political. That legend is in the process of dying but, hopefully, it won't be enough to rip the nomination out of his clutches. But if Hillary somehow does come back and take this nomination from a mortally wounded Obama, she will hopefully do so in a way that alienates as many of her potential voters as possible.

At the heart of it, you have a very manipulative and messed up take on human relations and the United States of America.

When you say that Obama is mortally wounded what exactly do you mean to say about America and the state of racism in this country?

It think it would be interesting for you to give your take on your country and why exactly why you believe what you claim about him being mortally wounded.

Iowanian
03-20-2008, 02:01 PM
[I think your record has a scratch on it....it seems to be stuck on this lame arguement.

It would waste less bandwidth for you to just say "I got nothin'", memyjettio.


QUOTE=jettio;4640690]That is not what he said and you know that he did not say that.

You ought to start watching re-runs of Leave it to Beaver and the Cosby Show.

You need some remedial ethics training.

You can't figure out that you and B*sh sold a war intended to create an Iraqi Utopian democracy on the false pretense of fear of an imminent attack from destructive weapons. That is lying, as is arguing against words that you put into someones else's mouth.[/QUOTE]

patteeu
03-20-2008, 02:05 PM
On last Friday, Obama said that he did not attend any of the services featured in the videos.

The hyenas and vultures like you have tried to twist that around and say that he claims to have been unaware of the fact that Wright has said offensive things from the pulpit.

The hyenas and vultures say that even though it is public knowledge that Obama disinvited him from giving the invocation at the announcement of his candidacy at the state capitol in Springfield, and an April 2007 NY Times article when he and the reverend acknowledged that the reverend's words could be used against Obama in the campaign.

You may have fooled yourself in regards to B*sh, but you better be more accurate if you want to have a meal fit for a hyena because there is still a better chance that the electorate will care more about what is fair and true than believing dishonest enemies.

So you are admitting that, based on Obama's careful, narrow denial last Friday and his vague elaboration Tuesday, he most likely did know about Rev. Wright's race-related rage for some time (going back at least before the beginning of this campaigin if not the full 20 years of their association)? So why didn't he do anything to help his pastor, and his grandmother for that matter, get past their biases? What kind of a uniter is he if he can't facilitate change in the people closest to him?

patteeu
03-20-2008, 02:15 PM
At the heart of it, you have a very manipulative and messed up take on human relations and the United States of America.

When you say that Obama is mortally wounded what exactly do you mean to say about America and the state of racism in this country?

It think it would be interesting for you to give your take on your country and why exactly why you believe what you claim about him being mortally wounded.

His wounds have nothing to do with race per se. As a candidate he had one thing going for him and that was the appearance that he represented something beyond politics, partisanship and division. He doesn't have any particularly relevant experience worth mentioning and his policy positions (to the extent you can ferret them out on his website and distill something meaningful out of his vaguely worded position statements) are standard liberal fare to say the most. Episodes like the one we've been discussing involving Jeremiah Wright as well as completely non-race-related missteps like his duplicitous pandering on the NAFTA issue have stripped away the special post-political veneer that his campaign had worked so hard to create. Without that, there's not much of a basis left for his campaign. It will take a miraculous ability to make people forget that which has become obvious for Obama to recover, IMO.

StcChief
03-20-2008, 02:21 PM
His wounds have nothing to do with race per se. As a candidate he had one thing going for him and that was the appearance that he represented something beyond politics, partisanship and division. He doesn't have any particularly relevant experience worth mentioning and his policy positions (to the extent you can ferret them out on his website and distill something meaningful out of his vaguely worded position statements) are standard liberal fare to say the most. Episodes like the one we've been discussing involving Jeremiah Wright as well as completely non-race-related missteps like his duplicitous pandering on the NAFTA issue have stripped away the special post-political veneer that his campaign had worked so hard to create. Without that, there's not much of a basis left for his campaign. It will take a miraculous ability to make people forget that which has become obvious for Obama to recover, IMO.
you under estimate the ability to of the media, and blinded left wingers to shrug this off.

fortunately the swing voters decide the election and they are brighter.

memyselfI
03-20-2008, 02:24 PM
At the heart of it, you have a very manipulative and messed up take on human relations and the United States of America.

When you say that Obama is mortally wounded what exactly do you mean to say about America and the state of racism in this country?

It think it would be interesting for you to give your take on your country and why exactly why you believe what you claim about him being mortally wounded.

You know, if Blacks across the board were supporting Obamessiah 100% in his support of his racist pastor then your pleas for the rest of us to consider the plight of racism in this country as Obamessiah wants to present it would carry some weight...

but as it is there are Blacks who are liberal, moderate, and conservative disavowing Baarack's minister and HIS support of him. Thus, how can white people, or any people, be expected to embrace and believe him 100% on the issue of race when black themselves do not ????

:doh!:

jettio
03-20-2008, 02:57 PM
His wounds have nothing to do with race per se. As a candidate he had one thing going for him and that was the appearance that he represented something beyond politics, partisanship and division. He doesn't have any particularly relevant experience worth mentioning and his policy positions (to the extent you can ferret them out on his website and distill something meaningful out of his vaguely worded position statements) are standard liberal fare to say the most. Episodes like the one we've been discussing involving Jeremiah Wright as well as completely non-race-related missteps like his duplicitous pandering on the NAFTA issue have stripped away the special post-political veneer that his campaign had worked so hard to create. Without that, there's not much of a basis left for his campaign. It will take a miraculous ability to make people forget that which has become obvious for Obama to recover, IMO.

So Obama is mortally wounded by Hannity's and the hyenas repeated loop broadcasts of Reverend Wright, but it has nothing to do with race.

I think you hyenas will remain hungry, because Obama has a lot more respect for the truth and his fellow citizens than hyenas like you.

I have to say that I find it hard to believe that someone could consider Obama mortally wounded now unless they also believed that race mattered.

ClevelandBronco
03-20-2008, 03:09 PM
So Obama is mortally wounded by Hannity's and the hyenas repeated loop broadcasts of Reverend Wright, but it has nothing to do with race.

I think you hyenas will remain hungry, because Obama has a lot more respect for the truth and his fellow citizens than hyenas like you.

I have to say that I find it hard to believe that someone could consider Obama mortally wounded now unless they also believed that race mattered.

The hyenas and vultures thing is played out, jettio.

Taco John
03-20-2008, 03:18 PM
As far as I can tell, only the most ardent anti-obama political activists think anything of this. Talking to a few friends in the area about this, about the only thing that they seem to have gotten out if this whole ordeal is that Obama made a speech about race in America, and they want to hear it.

SBK
03-20-2008, 03:39 PM
The hyenas and vultures thing is played out, jettio.

Would he be considered a hyena or vulture for the last 8 years of the Bush presidency? Perhaps a loon? Those are pretty cool birds that can swim and all, and much prettier than the hyena and vulture.

ClevelandBronco
03-20-2008, 03:57 PM
Would he be considered a hyena or vulture for the last 8 years of the Bush presidency? Perhaps a loon? Those are pretty cool birds that can swim and all, and much prettier than the hyena and vulture.

Ostrich perhaps.

jettio
03-20-2008, 06:48 PM
The hyenas and vultures thing is played out, jettio.

that is the best description.

jettio
03-20-2008, 06:48 PM
Ostrich perhaps.


You must think the B*sh presidency has been a success.

That is why I do not need any advice from you.

jettio
03-20-2008, 07:06 PM
Note to everyone on the Internet: Check your grammar and your spelling whenever you're trying to score intelligence points.


Translation: Cleveland Bronco's mentor is Limbaugh who washed out of Mid-Central Cape Girardeau State.

I took your unimpressive posting personality off of ignore to read your posts in this thread.

Back you go. Please know that I won't be reading any of your posts.

Logical
03-20-2008, 07:07 PM
So you are admitting that, based on Obama's careful, narrow denial last Friday and his vague elaboration Tuesday, he most likely did know about Rev. Wright's race-related rage for some time (going back at least before the beginning of this campaigin if not the full 20 years of their association)? So why didn't he do anything to help his pastor, and his grandmother for that matter, get past their biases? What kind of a uniter is he if he can't facilitate change in the people closest to him?ROFLROFLROFL

It is quite obvious to me you have never met someone who exhibits race related rage. These people cannot find it in themselves to be even civil when around someone that their rage is being vented at. Wright has no problem being civil to whites, in fact he can be quite accomodating and gracious which puts him far from rage. You clearly confuse hyperbole meant to fire up his congregation with rage/hate. I suspect that he has no hate for whites at all and probably even less rage. You really should look up the meaning of rage. Here let me do it for you:

1 a: violent and uncontrolled anger b: a fit of violent wrath carchaic : insanity (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insanity)2: violent action (as of wind or sea)

Now be honest do you truly have any proof that he has shown violent and uncontrolled anger, or indulged in a fit of violent wrath?

I am pretty sure any sane man would say no. patteeu, don't fall victim to the overzealous hyperbole of Sean Hannity it is not becoming of someone of your intellect.

jettio
03-20-2008, 07:15 PM
ROFLROFLROFL

It is quite obvious to me you have never met someone who exhibits race related rage. These people cannot find it in themselves to be even civil when around someone that their rage is being vented at. Wright has no problem being civil to whites, in fact he can be quite accomodating and gracious which puts him far from rage. You clearly confuse hyperbole meant to fire up his congregation with rage/hate. I suspect that he has no hate for whites at all and probably even less rage. You really should look up the meaning of rage. Here let me do it for you:

1 a: violent and uncontrolled anger b: a fit of violent wrath carchaic : insanity (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insanity)2: violent action (as of wind or sea)

Now be honest do you truly have any proof that he has shown violent and uncontrolled anger, or indulged in a fit of violent wrath?

I am pretty sure any sane man would say no. patteeu, don't fall victim to the overzealous hyperbole of Sean Hannity it is not becoming of someone of your intellect.

The B*sh-loving Obama-hating hyenas and vultures are not trying to be rational.

patteeu claims that Obama is mortally wounded as a candidate, which nobody could arrive at unless they make assumptions about the power of continuing racial resentment in America. Then he makes the self-deluding claim that his belief that Obama is mortally wounded has nothing to do with race.

I thought he would never top his delusional insistence that B*sh was forthright about the reasons for war, but alas, he has.

patteeu is the smartest clueless dumb sum'b*tch on the internet.

NewChief
03-20-2008, 07:22 PM
patteeu claims that Obama is mortally wounded as a candidate, which nobody could arrive at unless they make assumptions about the power of continuing racial resentment in America.

Like I just told my wife: if Obama gets the nomination, it's a whole new ballgame. I can't wait to watch him and McCain go head to head in a debate. Johnny Boy will come off like a simpleton.

NewChief
03-20-2008, 07:32 PM
By the way, Barack is on Larry King Live right now hitting home runs right and left. I'm so ready to see him go head to head with someone again instead of all this behind the scenes, media game shit that's been playing out since the Texas/Ohio primaries.

patteeu
03-20-2008, 07:47 PM
ROFLROFLROFL

It is quite obvious to me you have never met someone who exhibits race related rage. These people cannot find it in themselves to be even civil when around someone that their rage is being vented at. Wright has no problem being civil to whites, in fact he can be quite accomodating and gracious which puts him far from rage. You clearly confuse hyperbole meant to fire up his congregation with rage/hate. I suspect that he has no hate for whites at all and probably even less rage. You really should look up the meaning of rage. Here let me do it for you:



Now be honest do you truly have any proof that he has shown violent and uncontrolled anger, or indulged in a fit of violent wrath?

I am pretty sure any sane man would say no. patteeu, don't fall victim to the overzealous hyperbole of Sean Hannity it is not becoming of someone of your intellect.

Call it what you will, but it's pretty clear to me that Obama sat through it, along with his wife and young children, for up to 20 years without doing anything to effectively bridge the gap between his pastor and so-called typical white people.

patteeu
03-20-2008, 07:56 PM
Errr, yeah. There are white people in that congregation. My wife's family (and yes, you know who they are) belonged to that denomination. You're cherry picking a few sound bytes that grand total at about 30 seconds as representative of what happens in 30 years of preaching for probably 20 minutes at a shot, 3 times a week. It's ridiculous, and you should be above it.

Obama has had several opportunities to come clean about his knowledge of Rev. Wright's fiery oratory but he's failed to be forthcoming. Each explanation takes us a little further than the prevous one because the previous one didn't work to end the controversy. Obama is only saying what he thinks he needs to say to make it all go away. He should be above that, like he claimed to be back when his campaign was hitting on all cylinders and he wasn't facing much scrutiny at all.

BTW, no one is casting any aspersions on the denomination at all.

Messier
03-20-2008, 08:14 PM
Obama has had several opportunities to come clean about his knowledge of Rev. Wright's fiery oratory but he's failed to be forthcoming. Each explanation takes us a little further than the prevous one because the previous one didn't work to end the controversy. Obama is only saying what he thinks he needs to say to make it all go away. He should be above that, like he claimed to be back when his campaign was hitting on all cylinders and he wasn't facing much scrutiny at all.

BTW, no one is casting any aspersions on the denomination at all.

How many explanations has Obama given? And if Obama just wanted this to go away, he wouldn't have given a 45 minute speech on race and his relationship with Wright that he knew would cause more debate and more talk for several more days.

ClevelandBronco
03-20-2008, 08:47 PM
Translation: Cleveland Bronco's mentor is Limbaugh who washed out of Mid-Central Cape Girardeau State.

I took your unimpressive posting personality off of ignore to read your posts in this thread.

Back you go. Please know that I won't be reading any of your posts.

I don't listen to Limbaugh.

ClevelandBronco
03-20-2008, 09:02 PM
...I took your unimpressive posting personality off of ignore to read your posts in this thread.

Back you go. Please know that I won't be reading any of your posts.

Damn. I would have told you not to take me off of iggy.

Next time PM me first.

Logical
03-20-2008, 09:15 PM
Call it what you will, but it's pretty clear to me that Obama sat through it, along with his wife and young children, for up to 20 years without doing anything to effectively bridge the gap between his pastor and so-called typical white people.

You mean like his mom and sister or any number of other relatives, does he really have a bad relationship with them. If so a link for proof.

How about all his fellow Senators?

patteeu
03-21-2008, 06:53 AM
How many explanations has Obama given? And if Obama just wanted this to go away, he wouldn't have given a 45 minute speech on race and his relationship with Wright that he knew would cause more debate and more talk for several more days.

He's given several. And each time he gives one, he admits a little bit more than the previous time. He gave his speech because he wanted to turn attention away from his problematic relationship with his pastor and the deception he's been engaged in surrounding that relationship toward a more generic discussion about race relations where he can once again try to pose as the uniter who is above it all. Look at how many people who were once discussing Jeremiah Wright are now discussing Obama's poor grandma.

patteeu
03-21-2008, 06:58 AM
You mean like his mom and sister or any number of other relatives, does he really have a bad relationship with them. If so a link for proof.

How about all his fellow Senators?

Do you mean to tell me that we faked the moon landing? Please provide a link for proof.

Logical
03-21-2008, 08:17 AM
Do you mean to tell me that we faked the moon landing? Please provide a link for proof.I suppose he has a bad relationship with Gov Bill Richardson, Chris Dodd, Russ Feingold, Caroline Kennedy, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Tim Kaine, Chet Culver, Chris Gregoire, Sebelius, Mark White, Jay Rockefeller, Hugh Carey, Byron Dorgan, Lincoln Chafee, Patrick Leahy, Claire McCaskill, Joan Carnahan, Bill Bradley, Ben Nelson, Tim Johnson and Jim Doyle all seem to be faking their support of this racist for President.:eek:

patteeu
03-21-2008, 08:28 AM
I suppose he has a bad relationship with Gov Bill Richardson, Chris Dodd, Russ Feingold, Caroline Kennedy, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Tim Kaine, Chet Culver, Chris Gregoire, Sebelius, Mark White, Jay Rockefeller, Hugh Carey, Byron Dorgan, Lincoln Chafee, Patrick Leahy, Claire McCaskill, Joan Carnahan, Bill Bradley, Ben Nelson, Tim Johnson and Jim Doyle all seem to be faking their support of this racist for President.:eek:

What are you talking about? My last post was supposed to be a hint that you seem to be flying off on a strange tangent that is completely unrelated to anything I've been talking about here.

wazu
03-21-2008, 10:40 PM
They have phones in Hawaii, maybe he discussed the speech with her over the weekend while he wrote it.

Honestly, that was what I first thought of, hoping it was true. Cause if it isn't, then he is a dirtbag.

Logical
03-21-2008, 11:08 PM
What are you talking about? My last post was supposed to be a hint that you seem to be flying off on a strange tangent that is completely unrelated to anything I've been talking about here.

Your post seemed to be trying it indicate that he was a racist and his like for white Americans fake. I am saying if it is fake, he sure has fooled a lot of upstanding Americans into believing he is worthy of their trust.

patteeu
03-22-2008, 06:42 AM
Your post seemed to be trying it indicate that he was a racist and his like for white Americans fake. I am saying if it is fake, he sure has fooled a lot of upstanding Americans into believing he is worthy of their trust.

I'm not sure why it seemed like that to you, but I assure you that that wasn't my intent. I believe Obama is fake, but I don't think he's fake in that particular way. He's fake when he claims to be above politics. He's fake when he acts like he's going to reconcile those on each side of the divide of partisanship. He's fake when he tells voters one thing about NAFTA but his senior economics advisor tells the Canadians that it's just campaign rhetoric. He's fake when it takes him 3 or 4 iterations of explanations to finally admit that he was aware for 20 years of controversial sermons by pastor Jeremiah Wright (even though he still doesn't explain what he means by "controversial"). He's fake when he says he's been against the Iraq war from the beginning despite the fact that at one point he said his position was virtually the same as GWBush's. And I do question how divorced he really is from the black victimhood message that his 20 year pastor has been preaching, but I don't think he's an outright racist.