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keg in kc
08-09-2001, 12:39 PM
Green ready; Collins, Brister battling for No. 2 (http://chiefszone.com/stories/080901/foo_green.shtml)

Quarterbacks: Vermeil: 'I'm going to treat (Green) as if he's never been injured'

By Rick Dean
The Capital-Journal

RIVER FALLS, Wis. -- Trent Green and his healing left knee won't receive any special treatment when he makes his first appearance as the Kansas City Chiefs new quarterback Sunday night in the preseason opener against Washington at Arrowhead.
Coach Dick Vermeil said Wednesday that Green will play in the first quarter, then be removed with the rest of the first team offense. But concerns about Green's surgically repaired knee will not dictate his playing time.

"I'm going to treat him as if he's never been injured," Vermeil said. "You can't coach running scared. You can try and be intelligent about it, but he has to play to get ready.

"The players have to feel his presence and gain a level of confidence in his leadership and his ability to perform under pressure. The only way you can do that is in game situations. Since it's a new program and a new team, I think he's got to play at least a quarter of all four preseason games. I might play him a little more later on."

There is one thing, Vermeil added, that might induce him to limit Green's playing time in the preseason.

"The better it's going and the sharper he looks, the less he'll play," he said.

Of equal concern to the Chiefs is identifying the backup quarterback between Todd Collins and Bubby Brister.

Collins is currently listed as No. 2 on the team's official depth chart, but he has been hot and cold throughout this camp. Brister, 39, has moments when he turns nothing plays into positive ones, but in working generally with second- and third-line units, he has been largely inconsistent.

"I can't tell you which guy is the best right now," Vermeil said. "There are pros and cons on both side, and on game-day will decide it.

"Bubby is one of those impromptu, broken play-big play kind of guys. Todd is more of a disciplined guy who will stay within the scheme. He'll stay with a play even if it means getting sacked. I'm really anxious to watch them both play."

Collins, who hasn't taken a snap in three years as a Chiefs reserve after having been Buffalo's starter in 1997, will play the second quarter and into the third, Vermeil said. Brister will finish the game.

"Todd and Bubby both need playing time," Vermeil said. "Todd hasn't played football in a long time; neither has Bubby. Which guy is going to be designated as the second guy will depend on how they do in each preseason game and what we've watched as they mature in this program. I'm not disappointed in Todd, and I'm pleased with Bubby."

Notes

Center-quarterback exchanges, the most elementary play in football, continue to be a problem for the Chiefs.

Often the problem involves second-team center Brian Waters -- a college tight end whom the Dallas Cowboys tried to make a defensive end -- and veteran QB Bubby Brister. But Wednesday morning, starters Casey Wiegmann and Trent Green also had a problem.

"It's a terrible problem, more than I've ever seen," Vermeil said. "You could go to the first high school football games all through this valley and not see a center-quarterback exchange problem. More often than not, it's been the same center and the same quarterback. But we've got to be able to rely on (the snap). If you can't, you won't play."

Former Rams cornerback Taje Allen, playing Wednesday afternoon with the first-team defense when starter Ray Crockett sat out several drills, had a big practice. He deflected several passes in close quarters and played solid coverage throughout the day.

The battle for kicker continues to be close between incumbent Todd Peterson and rookie challenger Lawrence Tynes.

"Peterson probably has the edge now based on experience," Vermeil said, "but when you watch them kick, they're pretty even."

Rookie running back Derrick Blaylock got some reps with the first team in a goal-line drill Wednesday morning. One of the team's quickest players, he beat everyone to the corner and scored untouched on one play.

The Chiefs offense unveiled its "empty backfield" look -- a five-receiver package with no one but the quarterback in the backfield. The first time they ran it Tuesday afternoon, defensive end Duane Clemons batted down a pass at the line, and the defense in general handled the five receivers handily.

Mark M
08-09-2001, 01:05 PM
This entire post almost tears me in two.

I'd like to see a veteran as a backup just due to experience, yet would like to see a younger guy get a chance to prove himself. But I've got a bad feeling that neither one is really all that great being a #2 QB, especially if Bubby can't get the damned snap correct (although this has been a problem in camp, I hear. Kinda odd ... )

and the defense in general handled the five receivers handily.
I don't know if this is a good or bad thing.

It's good in that our secondary may be stronger than we thought. It's bad in that is shows how thin we are at WR.

MM
~~Filled with mixed emotions.

htismaqe
08-09-2001, 01:59 PM
I just hope that whoever wins the #2 job (Collins) is the only one of the two we keep. Give the #3 job to Helming.

Packfan
08-09-2001, 02:35 PM
If Green gets hurt, I dont think the Chiefs can win a game with the sorry group of back ups they have.

Mark M
08-09-2001, 02:45 PM
Packfan--
For once, a post of yours that I completely agree with. :eek:

Although none of us know exactly what Collins is capapble of, I think we've all got a good feeling that there is a reason he was behind Moon last year. Of course, I said before we got Green that we should save some $$ and draft picks and just start Collins, sink or swim. Now that Bubby is outperforming Collins (or so the word is), I'm glad no one listens to me.

I've got a funny feeling that either Collins or Brister will be gone before the season starts ... isn't there an Arena League QB that Vermeil likes out there? ;)

MM
~~Finding common ground.

htismaqe
08-09-2001, 03:23 PM
I wouldn't say Brister is outperforming Collins...so far Vermeil has praised Collins several times...I hope they cut Bubby...

I don't think the Moon/Collins thing had anything to do with talent. It had to with Gun and his obsession with loyalty to the "good ole boys". Carl probably forced him to play Grbac, or Moon would have been our starter all along...

Lightning Rod
08-09-2001, 03:40 PM
The whole Collins thing has me scratching my head. He was at one time considered an up and coming QB. Was said to have all the physical tools necessary to be a legitimate NFL QB. I was pleased with the pick up 3 or 4 years ago? The Chiefs signed him to a 3 or 5 year contract last year. But in all the time he has been here he has never even made it to 2nd string. What gives? Shouldn't he have developed by now?

Clint in Wichita
08-09-2001, 03:45 PM
Who knows? Grbac was "developing" until the day he left KC.

htismaqe
08-09-2001, 03:46 PM
Yes, he SHOULD be developed by now. However, when you consider who should have been responsible for developing him, it's easy to understand how he fell through the cracks...

keg in kc
08-09-2001, 07:40 PM
Name me more than 4 or 5 teams that could win with the sorry group of backups (or starters...) that they have.

Arizona: Jake Plummer goes down and it's Doug Brown, Chris Greisen or Sean Keenan.
Atlanta: Chandler goes down and maybe Mike Vick comes in (like him or not, he's not ready...), but chances are you see Eric Zeier or Doug Johnson
Baltimore: Elvis leaves the building, and in comes Chris Redmon (zilch experience) or B-more's poor man's Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham.
Buffalo: Rob Johnson is backed up by Alex Van Pelt and Pete Gonzalez.
Carolina: Doesn't even have a proven starter in the Jeff Lewis, Chris Weinke, Dameyune Craig rotation.
Chicago: A couple of average, at best, guys in Miller and Matthews, with McNown thrown in.
Cincinnati: Take your pick: John Kitna, Akili Smith, Scott Mitchell or Scott Covington. Ouch.
Cleveland: Tim Couch, Kelly Holcomb, Ty Detmer and Spurgon Wynn. Well, Couch might not suck.
Dallas: Tony Banks, Anthony Wright, Quincy Carter, and Clint Stoener...
Denver: Ahh, finally a decent group, the best IMHO with Brian Griese, Gus Frerotte and Steve Beuerlein. Too bad they're the exception and not the rule.
Detroit: Charlie Batch, "Captain Comeback" himself and Cory Sauter. Yawn.
Green Bay: Sooo, Brett Favre goes down, say hello to Doug Pederson, Billy Joe Tolliver or maybe Henry Burris. Anyone see any wins from that bunch? I sure don't...

Anyway, you get my point. A dozen teams, and what, one, maybe two half-decent backups in the whole bunch?

Welcome to the modern NFL ladies, where a good quarterback is a privilege, not a right. We're lucky to maybe have a decent starter, because frankly there are 8 or 10 teams out there who don't even have that. I understand wanting to have the best squad we can have, but be realistic - when there's only 15-20 really solid quarterbacks in the entire NFL, what are the odds that we're going to have 2 of them on the roster, especially when you consider the fact that we're still paying EG 3 million dollars while he's starting for the Ravens (wouldn't that be nice to spend on some players - nice move Carl...)

Nearly every team is 1 hit away from disaster, we're not alone in that. It's sad -- very sad -- but true.

Otter
08-09-2001, 07:52 PM
Hell of a time to be developing a young QB huh!

http://borgman.enquirer.com/img/daily/1999/08/080999borgman_150x92.jpg

Frazod
08-09-2001, 07:56 PM
We should all say a prayer for Green, his knee and all his other body parts every night as long as we've got these two RETARDS backing him up. Our two worst off season moves were (a) keeping Collins and (b) signing Brister. We should have tried to get Dilfer as a back-up when he was available and them let the other two idiots fight it out for the doomsday spot.

The good news - if Trent goes down, we'll be drafting really, really high in 2002. The bad news - enduring 2001.

keg in kc
08-09-2001, 07:56 PM
I'm alone in this otter, but I'm *happy* we didn't draft a QB this year. That may have been the most pathetic bunch of no-talent, braindead pieces of crap I've ever seen in a draft. I could name maybe two or three quarterbacks worth even thinking about drafting, and they were all taken way, way, way too high.

If we don't draft one next year, though, I'm gonna be real p!ssed. There's (probably...) going to be some real doozies coming out, and to miss a shot at one, at drafting a legitimate franchise-calibre QBotF, would be a mammoth mistake, IMHO...

Rounds 1 and 2 should be a RBotF (unless someone really steps up this season) and a QBotF. Get a solid WR or two through FA, draft or trade, and bolster the defense where it needs it through FA and draft. We're not that far away IMHO.

Kyle's plan for 2002...

keg in kc
08-09-2001, 07:59 PM
'zod, Dilfer ain't any better than Collins (as bad as that may be...). The guy can't hit the broad side of a barn with an M-1 tank from 6 feet away. Baltimore won despite that loser, and picking him up to run an offense where things like "accuracy" and "reading defenses" are important might have been impetus enough to get me to pack my bags and forget football for good.

Rausch
08-09-2001, 08:01 PM
I still don't even know why we signed Bubby...that just mistyfies me.....


Collins looked better than average the season he came to arrowhead and almost led the hapless Bills to a comeback. He looked poised, accurate, and averall like he had potential as at least a solid no 2 guy....

Let him get going in the preseason and I think he'll win the 2 job easy. Release Bubby and sign the best Arena league/nfl Europe/XFL reject still available at no 3. I don't care what team you are, if you're down to the no 3 qb you've got enough problems that you DON'T HAVE A CHANCE IN HELL of winning anyway...

At least takeing a long shot is better than standing pat with a below average geezer....:mad:

Otter
08-09-2001, 08:01 PM
Keg,

Actually, I think your opinion is more the concensous than my own.

I'll agree with you 100% though that next years draft, being a good one for QBs, its time to start looking twoard the future at the position instead of depending on free agency to fill the spot.

With this new coaching crew coming in its just too vital of a position to not to have a solid backup.

keg in kc
08-09-2001, 08:02 PM
I agree with that, Brad. In my mind, Bubby just doesn't make sense for a team where we are in terms of development...

Frazod
08-09-2001, 08:11 PM
Kyle, as bad as Dilfer is, he's a damn sight better than Brister or Collins. At least with Dilfer at the helm playing not to lose (which he did effectively last year, all the way to the Superbowl) we'd have a chance. No so with the clowns we've got now.

Rausch
08-09-2001, 08:14 PM
I'd take Collins over Brister OR Dilfer any day. He only had ONE good play in the last super bowl. I only saw one good pass, and it wasn't even on target, for the long touchdown.

Dilfer is a great person from all I hear, but he's not even an adequate player....Not even starter quality. I'd take a younger player who sucks terribly now and has great potential over an Old qb in NFL years who has below average talent and no potential to improve...

Frazod
08-09-2001, 08:17 PM
Well, it's a moot point, anyway. I still think he's better, though. I'll take a talentless idiot with a SB ring over two talentless idiots without one.

philfree
08-09-2001, 08:20 PM
Who knows about Collins but last time I saw Bubby play a whole game he kicked are *** and made us look quite silly. That said I hope Collins suprises and plays well enough to be our #2. He is not old and has the potential to be at least a decent back up. Wasn't he a 1st round draft pick?

PhilFree :cool:

keg in kc
08-09-2001, 08:20 PM
'zod, the problem with that scenario is that we don't have a Ravens/Titans calibre defense that would allow us the leeway to play not to lose...

I thought Dilfer was a complete @sshole on the QB challenge, btw, so I like him even less now than I did before (and even then I thought he sucked gopher stones...).

Frazod
08-09-2001, 08:28 PM
Well then, let's hope Dilbert continues to stink it up for the Hags!

keg in kc
08-09-2001, 08:37 PM
Agreed!

htismaqe
08-09-2001, 08:53 PM
If Hassleback doesn't step it up, we'll probably get to see Dilweed...