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Count Zarth
03-20-2008, 10:48 AM
http://kan.scout.com/2/739135.html

Brock
03-20-2008, 10:53 AM
When the Oakland Raiders traded for Randy Moss three seasons ago, Chiefs fans everywhere panicked. The thought of Moss running wild through KCís lackluster secondary and mooning the Arrowhead crowd after touchdowns was a frightening prospect.

The Chiefs themselves may have been a bit freaked out by The Freakís AFC West invasion, and traded for cornerback Patrick Surtain a month after the Raiders acquired Moss.

That eased everyoneís fears for a few months, but then Moss abused Surtain in their first meeting that year, grabbing five passes for 127 yards and a touchdown. Oh, the horror!

Surtain injured a knee prior to KCís second game against Oakland that season, meaning 33-year old corner Dewayne Washington drew a starting assignment. Scary? You bet.

But nothing ever came of it. Moss did beat Washington for a touchdown, but the seven-yard grab was his only catch of the day. As big of a mismatch as Moss vs Washington was, the pressure the Chiefs put on quarterback Kerry Collins that day negated any huge repercussions.

The lesson to be learned? High-priced NFL cornerbacks are overrated commodities, unless their name is Deion Sanders.

Terrell Owens toasts DeAngelo Hall for another touchdown.
Chris Graythen - Getty

The Chiefs vastly overpaid for Surtain and Ty Law, handing out over $20 million in signing bonuses and more in base salary over the last three years. In five combined seasons the pair produced only 13 interceptions.

Cornerback DeAngelo Hall, who recently agreed to sign a contract worth $70 million with Oakland, isnít nearly as old as Surtain or Law, but heíll be even more overpaid. The Raiders may regret trading for him (as they did with Moss) before his career in the AFC West is over.

Chiefs fans who were intimidated by Moss in silver and black should be equally afraid of Hall, but for different reasons. Now that heís a Raider, thereís nothing to be scared of, however.

The thought of Hall in red and gold is terrifying. The Chiefs had an interest in the former Falcons cornerback as early as last season, before the trade deadline. The Falcons wanted a first-round pick, however, a price too steep for Kansas City.

Thereís no way Hall was worth it. In Atlanta, he proved two things Ė he was as big of a problem child as the NFL has recently seen and his play at cornerback was more hype than substance.

Weíll start with DeAngelo Hall, the man. Hereís a short-list of his offenses as a me-first, team-second player:

1. In 2006, the Falcons hosted New Orleans in Week 12. Just before halftime, with the Saints ahead 14-6, quarterback Drew Brees launched a hail-mary attempt from midfield. Hall was in position to knock the pass down at the goal line, but instead, went for the interception. The ball went from Hallís hands to Terrence Copperís, who caught it for a 48-yard touchdown. Atlanta went on to lose the game (Hall was also beaten for a 76-yard touchdown early in the game).

DeAngelo Hall supports his local neighborhood felon.
Chris Graythen - Getty

2. The day Michael Vick received his prison sentence, the Falcons played on Monday Night Football. Apparently Hall thought it would be cute to support his dog-killing teammate on national television by holding up a Vick poster for ESPNís cameras.

3. In Week 3 of 2007, the Falcons hosted the Panthers. Hall turned in a stunning performance, holding Steve Smith to just one catch for 10 yards. Unfortunately, his poor attitude cost Atlanta the game, anyway, when he allowed Carolina to tie the score at 17 in the third quarter because of 67 yards in penalties on one drive.

First, Hall committed pass interference after Smith beat him deep. One play later, Hall shoved Smith, drawing a 15-yard personal foul penalty. On the ensuing play, Hallís trash talk resulted in another 15-yard penalty, negating a series-ending sack and extending a drive that culminated in a touchdown. Even worse, after the game, Hall did not apologize for a clear lack of judgment on his part. ("I felt like a lot of calls could have gone either way. They all went against me.")

If you think the above sounds bad, it gets worse. Despite his big plays (17 interceptions and 36 passes defensed in four seasons) and Sportscenter highlight reel, Hallís reputation as a shut-down cornerback is overblown.

According to Football Outsiders, Atlanta cornerbacks ranked 17th against number one receivers in 2005, 31st in 2006 and 10th in 2007. That doesnít speak well to Hallís supposed status as an elite cornerback. A quick review of Hallís history against elite receivers isnít impressive, either. Terrell Owens racked up 112 yards the first time he faced Hall in 2005, and toasted him twice for touchdowns in 2006.

That same season, Joey Galloway (161 yards), Marques Colston (97 yards), Hines Ward (171 yards, three touchdowns), Roy Williams (138 yards, one touchdown) and Santana Moss (123 yards, one touchdown) all victimized Atlantaís defense. Hall obviously wasnít locked on these receivers every time they caught a pass, but arenít elite cornerbacks supposed to make a difference?

Why is Hines Ward smiling? He's heading for six courtesy of Hall.
Doug Pensinger - Getty

What was Hines Ward, a receiver not known for his speed, doing running right past Hall for a 70-yard touchdown? Plaxico Burress (97 yards, one touchdown) and Anquan Boldin (162 yards, two touchdowns) found success against Atlantaís secondary last season.

Can you imagine the Chiefs spending an insane amount of dough on the player described above? What would Hallís reaction be to a team struggling through the growing pains associated with a rebuilding project? How could he possibly mesh with Herm Edwardsí team-first mentality? Do you see many Cover 2 defenses around the league featuring overpriced cornerbacks?

According to one NFL insider, Hall wasnít too interested in coming to Kansas City anyway. Wouldnít it have been a shame if MeAngelo had taken the money Jared Allen rightfully has earned by proving himself on the field (15.5 sacks) and off it (sober for months)?

Perhaps Chiefs fans Ė and those running the show at One Arrowhead Drive Ė should thank the Raiders and Al Davis for removing the temptation to trade for Hall. It appears heíll fit perfectly in Oakland, anyway, where the new slogan is ďJust get paid, baby

Count Zarth
03-20-2008, 10:56 AM
Mr. Brock, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.

Brock
03-20-2008, 10:57 AM
I respectfully decline your request. Thenk yew.

Count Zarth
03-20-2008, 10:57 AM
Mods please delete Brock's post. Unless you think a double standard is fair.

BigChiefFan
03-20-2008, 10:59 AM
Yea we are better off with Barksdale. Sure ****ing thing.


I just don't understand the mentality of bashing a team because they have a need and go out and attempt to fix it by trading for and signing one of the best, young corners in the game. Sorry, but the Raiders made a great move and I won't discredit them for it.


These articles are just a justification for being cheap. While, I agree, the Chiefs are in no position to be paying for OVER-THE-HILL FAs, YOUNG, UPCOMING Superstars should always be part of the plan. Trades are a great way to get better real soon.

Sure-Oz
03-20-2008, 11:03 AM
Isn't hall 25?

Fried Meat Ball!
03-20-2008, 11:04 AM
Mr. Brock, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.

Do you REALLY want to start this shit? I mean, really? With the amount of copyright infringement you partake in that no one calls you on, are you SURE you really want to start this?

Phobia
03-20-2008, 11:08 AM
I called him on it earlier with one of my articles. He's copying my response there.

StcChief
03-20-2008, 11:13 AM
welcome to the internet land of stolen everything. go sell your paper on the corner, or stand behind WPI inside scope material.

Fried Meat Ball!
03-20-2008, 11:19 AM
I called him on it earlier with one of my articles. He's copying my response there.

Hmmm... I hadn't been in the other thread.

Say... when you wanna get your 50-pound box of spice? I leave a week from tomorrow.

Easy 6
03-20-2008, 11:22 AM
I agree 100%, we dont need an overhyped, prima donna crybaby messin' in our corna.

Let him go further poison jokeland.

Mr. Laz
03-20-2008, 11:23 AM
I respectfully decline your request. Thenk yew.ROFL

cookster50
03-20-2008, 11:23 AM
A good laugh is worth 0 rep, so here you go! Thanks for the priceless posts Goatse.

Phobia
03-20-2008, 11:27 AM
Hmmm... I hadn't been in the other thread.

Say... when you wanna get your 50-pound box of spice? I leave a week from tomorrow.

It was in my "Rennovation" thread. Heh.

Let's grab a frosty beverage before you leave. I know you're busy but when you get a free hour or so, call me. Next Wednesday would work really well for me.

Fried Meat Ball!
03-20-2008, 11:32 AM
It was in my "Rennovation" thread. Heh.

Let's grab a frosty beverage before you leave. I know you're busy but when you get a free hour or so, call me. Next Wednesday would work really well for me.

That would work for me too. I'll give you a ring when I get home.

Dave Lane
03-20-2008, 11:35 AM
Hit given.

Dave

Hoover
03-20-2008, 11:40 AM
I clicked on the link so stop the crying. At least people want to read it, what do you get paid by the page view?

Chest Rockwell
03-20-2008, 11:42 AM
Mods please delete Brock's post. Unless you think a double standard is fair.

In this case, I think everyone thinks a double standard is fair.

Fried Meat Ball!
03-20-2008, 11:54 AM
In this case, I think everyone thinks a double standard is fair.

I'm OK with it. I'm actually tempted to copy it into another post, just for good measure.

Mile High Mania
03-20-2008, 11:54 AM
Mr. Brock, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.

You're a dumbass... the NFL, NFL Films and the NFLPA should make an example of you because of all your "theft".

Fried Meat Ball!
03-20-2008, 11:55 AM
I'm OK with it. I'm actually tempted to copy it into another post, just for good measure.

Hey Brock... because I don't want to copy GOATSE, can I have your permission to copy YOUR post, just so we can have the article on the second page of this thread?

Manila-Chief
03-20-2008, 11:57 AM
Yea we are better off with Barksdale. Sure ****ing thing.


I just don't understand the mentality of bashing a team because they have a need and go out and attempt to fix it by trading for and signing one of the best, young corners in the game. Sorry, but the Raiders made a great move and I won't discredit them for it.


These articles are just a justification for being cheap. While, I agree, the Chiefs are in no position to be paying for OVER-THE-HILL FAs, YOUNG, UPCOMING Superstars should always be part of the plan. Trades are a great way to get better real soon.

I agree with your point of trying to improve the team via good young players. Could the reason that he got burned be because his DL was not very good? A DB can't cover an excellent receiver all day???

I was interested in the article coz I thought it was talking about all the ramifications for cap space and saving us that way. But, you are correct in that it turned into a "homer" article praising the Chiefs for doing nothing. I think we are in the mess we are in now because Kingless most often will try to do things cheaply instead of what is best for the team. I mean a couple or 3 years back when we really need a quality defensive guy or two to get us over the hump, Carl set on the sidelines until the better ones were gone and then tried to make do with washed up guys. Yeah, maybe he didn't have the money for that particular player but he didn't try .... who knows some of those guys may have wanted to win a championship enough to have signed with us????

I agree that I think the Faiders may have made a good move (not on the DT they signed but on this one). If they can carry the cap issues they are adding some good young talent that we will have to play twice a year for several years. Point ... we need 2 good young CB's. Maybe this could have been one they tried to get. Team disrupption? Looked what happened to Moss in N.E. ... just maybe Herm could have done the same thing with Hall.

As far as Hall supporting Vick ... what else would one expect from a team mate? It doesn't mean he supports his crime.

Fruit Ninja
03-20-2008, 12:35 PM
Mr. Brock, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.
gotta love the stealing part. Oh the irony.

HemiEd
03-20-2008, 12:57 PM
Washington did a great job for the Chiefs that year. I never understood why he wasn't retained over some of the underachievers.

jAZ
03-20-2008, 01:07 PM
Raiders saved Chiefs from Hall

http://kan.scout.com/2/739135.html

"more hype than substance"

jAZ
03-20-2008, 01:10 PM
Mods please delete Brock's post. Unless you think a double standard is fair.

Since when has CP EVER policed copyright violations of that sort? What double standard is there?

BigChiefFan
03-20-2008, 01:17 PM
The more I think about this article, the more pissed off I get. It's a cop-out to say the Raiders saved us. From what? Having one of the best , young corners in the game? Gee, thanks, Raiders. Remember who we currently have penciled in as our WR core, then you tell me, if it's a good move. Some how I don't think Hall is too worried about Devard Darling. Then I look at who our CBs are on the roster and I'm starting to think who the F do we think we are?

keg in kc
03-20-2008, 01:22 PM
70 million for a corner on a tampa-2 team (like it or not, that's what the Chiefs are...) might not have been the wisest expenditure. It would also show that (yet again) the team hasn't learned anything from the Marty/Gun/Vermeil years, in that putting all your eggs in one basket (O or D) won't win anything meaningful.

BigChiefFan
03-20-2008, 01:37 PM
70 million for a corner on a tampa-2 team (like it or not, that's what the Chiefs are...) might not have been the wisest expenditure. It would also show that (yet again) the team hasn't learned anything from the Marty/Gun/Vermeil years, in that putting all your eggs in one basket (O or D) won't win anything meaningful.The Raiders will still field a 53 man roster. I don't believe they have put all of their eggs into one basket. Do I believe they are ready to compete for a Super Bowl? No, but I know they are further along than us and their coach has been there a year LESS than the almighty Herm. I also know that they truly had to rebuild(they actually went to a SuperBowl within the past 10 years) and still brought in veterans to mix with the rebuild effort.

The argument of trades vs. FAs vs. the draft is futile at best. What is important is can a team IDENTIFY TALENT and do what it takes to bring that talent to the team? I'll never knock another team for trying, even if it is the fade.

TinyEvel
03-20-2008, 01:46 PM
Mr. Brock, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.

LOL

MAybe you and Kirstie Tynes can go in on a class action suit against him.

beach tribe
03-20-2008, 01:46 PM
The Raiders will still field a 53 man roster. I don't believe they have put all of their eggs into one basket. Do I believe they are ready to compete for a Super Bowl? No, but I know they are further along than us and their coach has been there a year LESS than the almighty Herm. I also know that they truly had to rebuild(they actually went to a SuperBowl within the past 10 years) and still brought in veterans to mix with the rebuild effort.

The argument of trades vs. FAs vs. the draft is futile at best. What is important is can a team IDENTIFY TALENT and do what it takes to bring that talent to the team? I'll never knock another team for trying, even if it is the fade.

Because of this, snd the other rediculous signings, they won't be able to compete for the SB. By the time they get close, they will have to let important cogs walk, or be cut.

Mr. Flopnuts
03-20-2008, 01:53 PM
The more I think about this article, the more pissed off I get. It's a cop-out to say the Raiders saved us. From what? Having one of the best , young corners in the game? Gee, thanks, Raiders. Remember who we currently have penciled in as our WR core, then you tell me, if it's a good move. Some how I don't think Hall is too worried about Devard Darling. Then I look at who our CBs are on the roster and I'm starting to think who the F do we think we are?

I was with you on Hall, until I remembered what a big mouth, cry baby, bitch he is. I'm glad he's not a Chief. He'll fit in with Oakland just fiiiiiiine.

keg in kc
03-20-2008, 02:01 PM
The Raiders will still field a 53 man roster. I don't believe they have put all of their eggs into one basket. Do I believe they are ready to compete for a Super Bowl? No, but I know they are further along than us and their coach has been there a year LESS than the almighty Herm. I also know that they truly had to rebuild(they actually went to a SuperBowl within the past 10 years) and still brought in veterans to mix with the rebuild effort.

The argument of trades vs. FAs vs. the draft is futile at best. What is important is can a team IDENTIFY TALENT and do what it takes to bring that talent to the team? I'll never knock another team for trying, even if it is the fade.You've completely missed the point. Specifically, I'm not talking about the Raiders or what this move means for them, I'm talking about the Chiefs. Whether this is a good or bad move from Oakland's perspective is irrelevent to me. The weak point of this team, the thing that will prevent it from competing on a week-to-week basis is the offense. To continue to committ resources almost exclusively to the development of the defense at the expense of the offense will lead to exactly the kind of results we've seen for a decade. Because the KC franchise has a long-running tendency to build one facet of the team while all but ignoring the other, and making a move like this for that kind of contract would be more of the same. Not to mention the fact that it would be signing a player to a position that's strategically one of the less important ones for the type of zone-based defensive system that the Chiefs employ. I think this would have been a bad signing for Kansas City from almost every angle, money that should (and hopefully will) be better spent elsewhere.

That's just my opinion, of course.

DTLB58
03-20-2008, 02:36 PM
SI.com's Jim Trotter reports a deal that would send DeAngelo Hall to the Raiders could be called off if it isn't finalized by Thursday.

ESPN is already throwing out numbers, years, and guarantees, but this deal was never certain to happen. Hall reportedly spent four and a half hours with Al Davis Wednesday night, only to leave the bargaining room without an agreement. He did stay in Alameda overnight and is continuing talks today. Mar. 20 - 2:44 pm et

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=114337

Hmmmm, thought it was a done deal per this thread :doh!:

Sure-Oz
03-20-2008, 02:44 PM
That would crack me up if Hall goes somewhere else

kstater
03-20-2008, 02:46 PM
Mods please delete Brock's post. Unless you think a double standard is fair.

Same double standard as when you post KCStar articles?

chasedude
03-20-2008, 02:46 PM
Mr. Brock, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.

You're looking for Credit? That'll go real well with your KKK avatar.

Deberg_1990
03-20-2008, 02:50 PM
To continue to committ resources almost exclusively to the development of the defense at the expense of the offense will lead to exactly the kind of results we've seen for a decade.

Who did Herm draft with the #1 pick last year??? I forget...

keg in kc
03-20-2008, 02:54 PM
Who did Herm draft with the #1 pick last year??? I forget...And that was a good start. Hopefully they continue along those lines and embrace some semblence of team-wide balance.

OnTheWarpath58
03-20-2008, 02:54 PM
To continue to committ resources almost exclusively to the development of the defense at the expense of the offense will lead to exactly the kind of results we've seen for a decade.

Herm's 2 drafts:

14 picks

7 offensive players

6 defensive players

1 kicker

Deberg_1990
03-20-2008, 02:55 PM
And that was a good start. Hopefully they continue along those lines and embrace some semblence of team-wide balance.

I agree.

IM on record as saying the Chiefs will draft at least 4 O-linemen this year.

OnTheWarpath58
03-20-2008, 03:00 PM
I agree.

IM on record as saying the Chiefs will draft at least 4 O-linemen this year.

I'm on record that people will bitch like women in a sewing circle when all of the O-linemen we pick are in the 4th round or later.

KChiefsQT
03-20-2008, 03:07 PM
<QUOTE>Today, 08:26 AM #13
Phobia
fatchatter.com might suck
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: KCMO
Casino cash: $3420 Mr. Goatse, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.
Posts: 62,177

Today, 08:56 AM #3
GOATSE
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Houston
Casino cash: $10 Mr. Brock, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.

</QUOTE>

Okay... tell me this, how does GO get banned for saying the same thing as Phil?? Funny how some message board Mods take their power a little too far sometimes. It's just a board guys!!! Ya know, GO can be a pain in the ass and for all the stupid shit he's brought to this board, he's brought twice as much productive shit. All the work he did at the training camp to report to all of us.. .shit like that gets overlooked. I think banning someone because of repeating the same thing another poster says is bullshit and unneccesary. But, that's just my opinion.

Mr. Flopnuts
03-20-2008, 03:10 PM
<QUOTE>Today, 08:26 AM #13
Phobia
fatchatter.com might suck
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: KCMO
Casino cash: $3420 Mr. Goatse, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.
Posts: 62,177

Today, 08:56 AM #3
GOATSE
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Houston
Casino cash: $10 Mr. Brock, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.

</QUOTE>

Okay... tell me this, how does GO get banned for saying the same thing as Phil?? Funny how some message board Mods take their power a little too far sometimes. It's just a board guys!!! Ya know, GO can be a pain in the ass and for all the stupid shit he's brought to this board, he's brought twice as much productive shit. All the work he did at the training camp to report to all of us.. .shit like that gets overlooked. I think banning someone because of repeating the same thing another poster says is bullshit and unneccesary. But, that's just my opinion.

Clayton will never escape the shroud of his past. No one else would've gotten banned for it.

keg in kc
03-20-2008, 03:13 PM
Herm's 2 drafts:

14 picks

7 offensive players

6 defensive players

1 kickerIf you dig deeper into those numbers, you'll discover that 5 of those '6 offensive players and 1 kicker' were drafted in the 5th round or later, while 4 of those '6 defensive players' were drafted on the first day of the draft. That's a 2:1 lean towards the defense in the high rounds.

Go back further, to the years before Herm, and you'll find the same sort of disparity going back all the way to '01, with 8 defensive players drafted in rounds 1-3 of the draft under Vermeil, against 3 offensive players and 1 punter. So, in 7 drafts, the Chiefs have chosen 12 defensive players on day 1 versus 4 offensive players and 2 special teamers. Which may (or may not; there's no guarantee they'd have been more successful in their offensive picks than they were with their defensive...) be the origin of the current woes on that side of the ball.

We could talk about free agents, too, if you'd like. They built the record-setting offense in 2001 and 2002. Since 2003, I think it's fair to say much of the focus on outside free agents has been on the defensive side of the ball. Including several cornerbacks, from Ray Crockett to Dexter McCleon to Pat Surtain to Ty Law. I think it's similar to the DT position in the draft, personally; once you've committed so much money (or draft picks, in the case of DT) into a single position, I think there has to come a time where you're forced to focus on other areas on the team, or you risk killing your entire franchise in an effort to fill one roster spot.

That's not a popular opinion, I know, since so many people are hyper about drafting a DT. And I think I'd be okay taking a DT if it's the BPA. But 70 million to a cornerback? As I said, I think it would be a bad idea, particularly on a team where I believe the greater focus should be on rebuilding the offense to a competitive level, and a team where the CB position is playing primarily a zone scheme. Not that I think you should ignore the defense; I believe signings like DeMorrio Williams are perfect for a team that finds themselves where KC is at this moment.

Again, just my opinion.

OnTheWarpath58
03-20-2008, 03:20 PM
But 70 million to a cornerback? As I said, I think it would be a bad idea, particularly on a team where I believe the greater focus should be on rebuilding the offense to a competitive level, and a team where the CB position is playing primarily a zone scheme. Not that I think you should ignore the defense; I believe signings like DeMorrio Williams are perfect for a team that finds themselves where KC is at this moment.

Again, just my opinion.

Couldn't agree more with this, however, focusing solely on rebuilding the offense is due to lead to some bad reaches based on need alone.

If it happens to fall that the BPA in the first 3 rounds are defensive players, so be it.

JMO.

raybec 4
03-20-2008, 03:27 PM
Couldn't agree more with this, however, focusing solely on rebuilding the offense is due to lead to some bad reaches based on need alone.

If it happens to fall that the BPA in the first 3 rounds are defensive players, so be it.

JMO.

You are exactly right, reaching for need might make us average, I for one am tired of 8-8 or any season with no playoff wins. If we have to fall short on some positions of need in order to be good later and for a sustained period of time than so be it.

keg in kc
03-20-2008, 03:32 PM
Couldn't agree more with this, however, focusing solely on rebuilding the offense is due to lead to some bad reaches based on need alone.

If it happens to fall that the BPA in the first 3 rounds are defensive players, so be it.

JMO.I don't think it would be wise to draft only defense on day 1, since that's by far both the younger and more talented side of the ball, but your point is still valid. I think we do need to focus on reclamation of the offense, but as the last decade (hopefully, finally) taught us, we can't completely ignore the defense to rebuild the O. Particularly when you're talking about high picks, you've got to take talent into the equation, in terms of BPA. Although I'm more of a "BPA at a position of need" kind of guy. I think you target several positions in the first round and draft from those. But, since we draft at 5, we're kind of forced into that by necessity; your draft board has to be pretty slim at that point, you're going to have 5 guys ranked as your 'targets' and regardless of what happens (short of trading down) at least one of them will be there. Either way, yeah, to ignore the defense to draft offense would be exactly the same thing we did from 2001 to the present, just flipped around to the other side of the ball. We all know what that got us...

But, anyway, I'm rambling. The idea is to create a team with some balance, in my opinion. One side of the ball will naturally be better than the other, but the idea should be to dominate in one facet (offense or defense) yet still be good in the others.

And frankly, I'm not sure a $70 million contract to anybody is all that wise, unless it's someone you've drafted and have a vested interest in keeping (and even then I'm not sure how smart it is), but that's an entirely different discussion.

SBK
03-20-2008, 03:52 PM
"more hype than substance"

You need to put this above your avatar. :D

Fruit Ninja
03-20-2008, 04:06 PM
Clayton will never escape the shroud of his past. No one else would've gotten banned for it.

He can be pretty cool at times and takes a few steps forward, but then the takes alot more steps backwards. Thats just the way he is though. He loves the attention.

He should have been at least temp banned a long ass time ago. I am sure this isnt just 1 isolated incident that got him banned. It just finally caught up to him.

Halfcan
03-20-2008, 05:29 PM
Since when has CP EVER policed copyright violations of that sort? What double standard is there?

Yeah no kidding-JWitt has ripped me off plenty of times-that bitch owes me some BBQ-lol

People on here sometimes forget-that if it was Funny, Smart, and Witty-it probably came from Halfcan-lol

Halfcan
03-20-2008, 05:31 PM
LOL

MAybe you and Kirstie Tynes can go in on a class action suit against him.

Speaking of Kirstie-where oh where has that Hottie been lately?? :)

This thread and every other one-could use more pics of Kirstie.

Halfcan
03-20-2008, 05:35 PM
<QUOTE>Today, 08:26 AM #13
Phobia
fatchatter.com might suck
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: KCMO
Casino cash: $3420 Mr. Goatse, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.
Posts: 62,177

Today, 08:56 AM #3
GOATSE
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Houston
Casino cash: $10 Mr. Brock, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.

</QUOTE>

Okay... tell me this, how does GO get banned for saying the same thing as Phil?? Funny how some message board Mods take their power a little too far sometimes. It's just a board guys!!! Ya know, GO can be a pain in the ass and for all the stupid shit he's brought to this board, he's brought twice as much productive shit. All the work he did at the training camp to report to all of us.. .shit like that gets overlooked. I think banning someone because of repeating the same thing another poster says is bullshit and unneccesary. But, that's just my opinion.

wow that is deep :rolleyes:

Frazod
03-20-2008, 05:59 PM
Clayton will never escape the shroud of his past. No one else would've gotten banned for it.

All Brock did was post the text of the friggin article Gochiefs posted the link for. For starters, posting a link without posting the article is annoying. Second, HE POSTED A LINK TO THE ARTICLE. It's out there. It's linked. At that point, the cat's out of the bag. As soon I as saw the next post I realized Brock had merely copied the article - that's just common sense, and it wouldn't have been necessary if Gochiefs had done it himself in the friggin topic post.

I don't know if this is a real ban or not, but I assume it's a God-I'm-sick-of-your-shit-go-sit-in-the-corner temporary ban, and if so, God knows he's earned it.

Chest Rockwell
03-20-2008, 06:11 PM
All Brock did was post the text of the friggin article Gochiefs posted the link for. For starters, posting a link without posting the article is annoying. Second, HE POSTED A LINK TO THE ARTICLE. It's out there. It's linked. At that point, the cat's out of the bag. As soon I as saw the next post I realized Brock had merely copied the article - that's just common sense, and it wouldn't have been necessary if Gochiefs had done it himself in the friggin topic post.

I don't know if this is a real ban or not, but I assume it's a God-I'm-sick-of-your-shit-go-sit-in-the-corner temporary ban, and if so, God knows he's earned it.

It's actually more juvenile than that. Phil posted a link to one of his articles earlier today. Goat posted the entire article. Phil asked him to remove it as he wanted the hit count (for whatever reason). Goat got a sandy vag and turned into a 9 year old.

Goat posted this link. Brock posted the text (I'm assuming it was intended to annoy Goat, who I'm sure only posted the link to be even more of a c*ckbag than he was in Phil's thread). Goat turned into said 9 year old b*tchfist again, only this time he turned it up to 11.

I generally have no problem with Goat, pretty neutral on his shennanigans, but it go a little retarded (even for him) today. Was a banning in order? Not sure, but jeebus the adolescent shite is getting a bit over the top.

Fried Meat Ball!
03-20-2008, 06:11 PM
All Brock did was post the text of the friggin article Gochiefs posted the link for. For starters, posting a link without posting the article is annoying. Second, HE POSTED A LINK TO THE ARTICLE. It's out there. It's linked. At that point, the cat's out of the bag. As soon I as saw the next post I realized Brock had merely copied the article - that's just common sense, and it wouldn't have been necessary if Gochiefs had done it himself in the friggin topic post.

I don't know if this is a real ban or not, but I assume it's a God-I'm-sick-of-your-shit-go-sit-in-the-corner temporary ban, and if so, God knows he's earned it.

Isn't it spam if someone posts a link without the article? :shrug:

Reerun_KC
03-20-2008, 06:13 PM
It's actually more juvenile than that. Phil posted a link to one of his articles earlier today. Goat posted the entire article. Phil asked him to remove it as he wanted the hit count (for whatever reason). Goat got a sandy vag and turned into a 9 year old.

Goat posted this link. Brock posted the text (I'm assuming it was intended to annoy Goat, who I'm sure only posted the link to be even more of a c*ckbag than he was in Phil's thread). Goat turned into said 9 year old b*tchfist again, only this time he turned it up to 11.

I generally have no problem with Goat, pretty neutral on his shennanigans, but it go a little retarded (even for him) today. Was a banning in order? Not sure, but jeebus the adolescent shite is getting a bit over the top.

Its just getting tiring to say the least... He has banned people from WPI for less than that...

Frazod
03-20-2008, 06:13 PM
It's actually more juvenile than that. Phil posted a link to one of his articles earlier today. Goat posted the entire article. Phil asked him to remove it as he wanted the hit count (for whatever reason). Goat got a sandy vag and turned into a 9 year old.

Goat posted this link. Brock posted the text (I'm assuming it was intended to annoy Goat, who I'm sure only posted the link to be even more of a c*ckbag than he was in Phil's thread). Goat turned into said 9 year old b*tchfist again, only this time he turned it up to 11.

I generally have no problem with Goat, pretty neutral on his shennanigans, but it go a little retarded (even for him) today. Was a banning in order? Not sure, but jeebus the adolescent shite is getting a bit over the top.

Jesus.

:shake:

Spott
03-20-2008, 06:16 PM
Mr. Brock, you don't have permission to post that information. I'd appreciate it if you'd take it down. I'm not charging for it and I'm not asking anybody for a nickel but I would appreciate a unique hit out of everybody who chooses to read it. I went to a great deal of effort to make this possible for people and I don't appreciate you stealing my material.

Stop being such a pansy.

Chest Rockwell
03-20-2008, 06:18 PM
Its just getting tiring to say the least... He has banned people from WPI for less than that...

I was trying to not take sides pro or con. I think it was justified. When he goes off his meds, he's ridiculously annoying to say the least. When he's acting semi-mature, he's pretty entertaining (regardless on which side of the love/hate relationship you fall).

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-20-2008, 06:18 PM
It's actually more juvenile than that. Phil posted a link to one of his articles earlier today. Goat posted the entire article. Phil asked him to remove it as he wanted the hit count (for whatever reason). Goat got a sandy vag and turned into a 9 year old. .

The fact that he was that concerned over a hit count shows that there is more than enough sand to go around in this little bitchfest.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-20-2008, 06:20 PM
You're looking for Credit? That'll go real well with your KKK avatar.

:huh:

Chest Rockwell
03-20-2008, 06:20 PM
I was trying to not take sides pro or con. I think it was justified. When he goes off his meds, he's ridiculously annoying to say the least. When he's acting semi-mature, he's pretty entertaining (regardless on which side of the love/hate relationship you fall).

Heh...you gotta realize you're being a fuqtard when the guy with the "me/muh weiner" avatar is questioning your maturity.

Halfcan
03-20-2008, 06:20 PM
70 mil for 7 years with 24 mil up front and costing them 2 draft picks

What the fug is Crazy Al smoking.

Phobia
03-20-2008, 06:58 PM
The fact that he was that concerned over a hit count shows that there is more than enough sand to go around in this little bitchfest.

Generally you're a pretty smart dude, Hamas. Every internet businessperson in the world is concerned with hitcount.

http://hardwarelogic.com/articles/blogs/Website_Reviews_and_You/MoreYouKnow.jpg

Phobia
03-20-2008, 07:00 PM
Isn't it spam if someone posts a link without the article? :shrug:

Actually, I think it's illegal to post an entire article without express permission. It's kinda like stealing movies, music, or software.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-20-2008, 07:11 PM
Generally you're a pretty smart dude, Hamas. Every internet businessperson in the world is concerned with hitcount.



Given what this site does with its articles, which are axiomatically cut and pasted, you throwing a tissy over that was pretty immature. You've never cut and pasted an article here, or looked the other way for anyone else doing the same? I find that hard to believe.

If it's good, it will probably get recognized. Even if it isn't by a large audience, if it has merit and five people read it, and they enjoy it, is that really a failure?

Hey, maybe you're writing to get famous or earn money though, and those extra 15 hits will propel you to the top of Oprah's book club :shrug:

Halfcan
03-20-2008, 07:16 PM
axiomatically??

soon to be in a Jwitt article.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-20-2008, 07:25 PM
If GOATSE was trying to steal your words, Phobia, I'd agree with you and any accusations of theft, such as in your last post.

All things considered, it seemed pretty innocuous.

Fruit Ninja
03-20-2008, 07:40 PM
Yeah, the banning of Gochiefs and not phil for the exact same thing is pretty dumb. Then again, we all know Phobia is the Chiefsplanet Jesus. So i guess, this is to be expected.

Its pretty goofy he got all pissy about the article though.

the Talking Can
03-20-2008, 07:50 PM
goatsex has been spamming this board for years, he finally admitted it tonight

it is all about driving traffic to another site in order to make that site money....the definition of spamming....

Brock
03-20-2008, 07:58 PM
I don't give a shit about goatse and neither should anybody else.

Fried Meat Ball!
03-20-2008, 07:58 PM
Actually, I think it's illegal to post an entire article without express permission. It's kinda like stealing movies, music, or software.

I understand. It's generally accepted, however, on message boards that you copy and paste the article with the byline information. Especially when it's available for free on another site. It's not like it was a paid-for article that was posted here.

I think you're splitting hairs when you're getting bent out of shape over something that's not being sold to begin with. I mean, it's free on the other site... you're just spamming for hits.

I'd say to both of you in a message board setting, if you don't want it on the board, don't post the link. But that's just me. I can appreciate where you're coming from.

One of the good things about men... we can disagree and not hate each other.

:thumb:

nychief
03-20-2008, 07:59 PM
neither phobia or gotass should ever be confused with journalist. this particular piece is another in a long line of jokes that come out of WPI.

Mr. Flopnuts
03-20-2008, 08:00 PM
All Brock did was post the text of the friggin article Gochiefs posted the link for. For starters, posting a link without posting the article is annoying. Second, HE POSTED A LINK TO THE ARTICLE. It's out there. It's linked. At that point, the cat's out of the bag. As soon I as saw the next post I realized Brock had merely copied the article - that's just common sense, and it wouldn't have been necessary if Gochiefs had done it himself in the friggin topic post.

I don't know if this is a real ban or not, but I assume it's a God-I'm-sick-of-your-shit-go-sit-in-the-corner temporary ban, and if so, God knows he's earned it.

I'm sure it is. I just think that it was an accumulation of things rather than this one isolated incident. Had someone else done it, they wouldn't have been banned because it wouldn't be a pattern.

Brock
03-20-2008, 08:02 PM
I'm just guessing, but he probably argued with a mod or two about it incessantly and they finally just shut him up for a while.

Mr. Flopnuts
03-20-2008, 08:03 PM
Generally you're a pretty smart dude, Hamas. Every internet businessperson in the world is concerned with hitcount.

http://hardwarelogic.com/articles/blogs/Website_Reviews_and_You/MoreYouKnow.jpg

LMAO I stole the picture. Thanks.

Fried Meat Ball!
03-20-2008, 08:03 PM
Generally you're a pretty smart dude, Hamas. Every internet businessperson in the world is concerned with hitcount.

http://hardwarelogic.com/articles/blogs/Website_Reviews_and_You/MoreYouKnow.jpg

Meh... not so much. A better indicator of traffic is unique visitors. Most advertisers don't know the difference between one thing and another, but your web guys that actually KNOW about stats would rather see increasing unique visitor than hits.

crazycoffey
03-20-2008, 08:12 PM
I don't give a shit about goatse and neither should anybody else.


Thread closed!

Halfcan
03-20-2008, 08:38 PM
I'm sure it is. I just think that it was an accumulation of things rather than this one isolated incident. Had someone else done it, they wouldn't have been banned because it wouldn't be a pattern.

If GC would listen to more RUSH-these things would not happen.

KcMizzou
03-20-2008, 08:42 PM
If GC would listen to more RUSH-these things would not happen.True. He'd have slit his wrists years ago. :)

Mr. Flopnuts
03-20-2008, 08:55 PM
True. He'd have slit his wrists years ago. :)

Douche.


I mean, touche!!!

KcMizzou
03-20-2008, 08:57 PM
Douche.


I mean, touche!!!:D

Spectre
03-20-2008, 08:57 PM
Hall is definetly a d-bag of epic proportions, but at the same time he'd be far better than anyone KC could hope to field or draft when you consider how terribly they've blown shots at drafting corners.

Mr. Flopnuts
03-20-2008, 08:58 PM
Hall is definetly a d-bag of epic proportions, but at the same time he'd be far better than anyone KC could hope to field or draft when you consider how terribly they've blown shots at drafting corners.

Welcome to the planet Clayton.

Spectre
03-20-2008, 09:01 PM
Welcome to the planet Clayton.

Piss me off and I'll have Boba Fett all over your ass. :cuss:

Mr. Flopnuts
03-20-2008, 09:03 PM
Piss me off and I'll have Boba Fett all over your ass. :cuss:

LMAO

Spectre
03-20-2008, 09:05 PM
LMAO

You think it's a laughing matter now, but when Boba unleashes the fury he learned from my Dungeons and Dragons friends, you'll be singing a different tune. :evil:

KcMizzou
03-20-2008, 09:11 PM
You think it's a laughing matter now, but when Boba unleashes the fury he learned from my Dungeons and Dragons friends, you'll be singing a different tune. :evil:True.

A blaster and a +3 long sword is a nasty combination.

Spectre
03-20-2008, 09:16 PM
True.

A blaster and a +3 long sword is a nasty combination.

I wish...err, I mean Clayton wishes his sword was +3 long. ROFL

Halfcan
03-20-2008, 09:29 PM
Hall is definetly a d-bag of epic proportions, but at the same time he'd be far better than anyone KC could hope to field or draft when you consider how terribly they've blown shots at drafting corners.

I am glad the banning taught you a valuable lesson-:rolleyes:

welcome back-it was like you never left

Logical
03-20-2008, 09:38 PM
I respectfully decline your request. Thenk yew.:clap::clap:

luv
03-20-2008, 10:07 PM
True. He'd have slit his wrists years ago. :)

LMAO

BigRock
03-20-2008, 10:11 PM
I say GOATSE should be unbanned. If he was still posting, I'd have become aware of the awesome video that's up at KCChiefs.com sooner. Instead I had to see it on another board. It just wasn't the same as getting the link from ChiefsPlanet.

KChiefsQT
03-20-2008, 10:51 PM
wow that is deep :rolleyes:

Eat me

Mr. Flopnuts
03-20-2008, 10:52 PM
Eat me

Please?

Mr. Flopnuts
03-20-2008, 10:53 PM
LMAO Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Phobia
03-20-2008, 10:54 PM
Eat me

Take a number or what?

KChiefsQT
03-20-2008, 10:58 PM
Take a number or what?

No, I don't get all hot and heavy about how many "hits" my "cookie" gets a day!!

All in good fun!:D

Demonpenz
03-20-2008, 10:59 PM
Why do I see Phil in one of those adds

He comes out with a beer in his hand and a cloudy lens is being used on the video camera

"Hi guys, you may know me as phil on the internet" I know how life can deal you a band hand....*camera change*

"So you down a few beers, hit a punching bag, screw your wife's sister"
Then one day you post someone's internet article......*another camera change*
"Please don't post other people's shit"

*music*

"the more you know!"

Phobia
03-20-2008, 11:07 PM
Meh... not so much. A better indicator of traffic is unique visitors. Most advertisers don't know the difference between one thing and another, but your web guys that actually KNOW about stats would rather see increasing unique visitor than hits.

Actually, I agree - as you'll see if you'll review the original quote.

Phobia
03-20-2008, 11:08 PM
neither phobia or gotass should ever be confused with journalist. this particular piece is another in a long line of jokes that come out of WPI.

The difference is - I know this. He.... does not.

Phobia
03-20-2008, 11:12 PM
Why do I see Phil in one of those adds

He comes out with a beer in his hand and a cloudy lens is being used on the video camera

"Hi guys, you may know me as phil on the internet" I know how life can deal you a band hand....*camera change*

"So you down a few beers, hit a punching bag, screw your wife's sister"
Then one day you post someone's internet article......*another camera change*
"Please don't post other people's shit"

*music*

"the more you know!"

A cloudy lens with me on the other end would likely be a good thing.

Well done, DP. If rep meant anything I'd award you some.

Demonpenz
03-20-2008, 11:18 PM
I ment to put BAD hand but **** it. It's tuesday i am too tired to change it

keg in kc
03-20-2008, 11:20 PM
I ment to put BAD hand but **** it. It's tuesday i am too tired to change itIf you think it's tuesday you really are f*cked.

blueballs
03-20-2008, 11:46 PM
another goatsee beat down
the off season in full swing

KcMizzou
03-20-2008, 11:47 PM
If you think it's tuesday you really are f*cked.LMAO

You must respect the 'Penz.

chagrin
03-21-2008, 06:28 AM
So the Raiders are going to bench a #25 pick, I'm sure that guy is happy. I like that ticker thingy on the front page, good addition

Coogs
03-21-2008, 08:19 AM
If you dig deeper into those numbers, you'll discover that 5 of those '6 offensive players and 1 kicker' were drafted in the 5th round or later, while 4 of those '6 defensive players' were drafted on the first day of the draft. That's a 2:1 lean towards the defense in the high rounds.

Go back further, to the years before Herm, and you'll find the same sort of disparity going back all the way to '01, with 8 defensive players drafted in rounds 1-3 of the draft under Vermeil, against 3 offensive players and 1 punter. So, in 7 drafts, the Chiefs have chosen 12 defensive players on day 1 versus 4 offensive players and 2 special teamers. Which may (or may not; there's no guarantee they'd have been more successful in their offensive picks than they were with their defensive...) be the origin of the current woes on that side of the ball.

We could talk about free agents, too, if you'd like. They built the record-setting offense in 2001 and 2002. Since 2003, I think it's fair to say much of the focus on outside free agents has been on the defensive side of the ball. Including several cornerbacks, from Ray Crockett to Dexter McCleon to Pat Surtain to Ty Law. I think it's similar to the DT position in the draft, personally; once you've committed so much money (or draft picks, in the case of DT) into a single position, I think there has to come a time where you're forced to focus on other areas on the team, or you risk killing your entire franchise in an effort to fill one roster spot.

That's not a popular opinion, I know, since so many people are hyper about drafting a DT. And I think I'd be okay taking a DT if it's the BPA. But 70 million to a cornerback? As I said, I think it would be a bad idea, particularly on a team where I believe the greater focus should be on rebuilding the offense to a competitive level, and a team where the CB position is playing primarily a zone scheme. Not that I think you should ignore the defense; I believe signings like DeMorrio Williams are perfect for a team that finds themselves where KC is at this moment.

Again, just my opinion.


:clap::clap::clap:

Spectre
03-21-2008, 10:53 AM
The difference is - I know this. He.... does not.

From reading your posts, at least you sound like a decent human being with something going in his life...can't say the same for weigh-a-ton suckin on his momma's tit.

Fried Meat Ball!
03-21-2008, 10:56 AM
Actually, I agree - as you'll see if you'll review the original quote.

I know. But I was quoting and disagreeing with this: "Every internet businessperson in the world is concerned with hitcount."

Phobia
03-21-2008, 07:45 PM
I just banned him from fatchatter as well. The dude is a complete moron.

Bowser
03-21-2008, 08:12 PM
I just banned him from fatchatter as well. The dude is a complete moron.

I realize this, and apologize for bringing nothing to the table.

Wait, are you talking about me?

Fried Meat Ball!
03-21-2008, 08:12 PM
Did you ban his IP or ban just the username?

Halfcan
03-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Eat me

:p

Short Leash Hootie
03-23-2008, 06:10 PM
How ridiculous. Phil, you really need to get over the whole WPI thing...how old are you?

Ugly Duck
03-23-2008, 06:38 PM
the awesome video that's up at KCChiefs.com

this one? http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d804800b4

Adept Havelock
03-23-2008, 10:04 PM
I agree 100%, we dont need an overhyped, prima donna crybaby messin' in our corna.

Let him go further poison jokeland.

Good call. I think it applies to Deangelo Hall as well. ;)

BigRock
03-23-2008, 10:06 PM
this one? http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d804800b4
HAW HAW HAW

Demonpenz
03-23-2008, 10:24 PM
gochief has some skills, but i am afraid it is too late for him to learn everyday life things that most people learn by time they are 18

Count Zarth
12-27-2008, 12:36 AM
This one was prophetic as hell.

crazycoffey
12-27-2008, 09:07 AM
This one was prophylatctic as hell.



FYP

Phobia
12-27-2008, 09:30 AM
So, you've chosen to bump a thread which contains embarrassment to the power of ten because you want to pat yourself on the back to the power of two.

Smart.

MIAdragon
12-27-2008, 09:50 AM
So, you've chosen to bump a thread which contains embarrassment to the power of ten because you want to pat yourself on the back to the power of two.

Smart.

LMAO

Count Zarth
12-27-2008, 04:10 PM
So, you've chosen to bump a thread which contains embarrassment to the power of ten because you want to pat yourself on the back to the power of two.

Smart.

I'm not embarrassed by this thread. Mostly because I was vindicated. But also because it takes a lot more than a dumb thread to embarrass me.