PDA

View Full Version : West Memphis Three


beavis
03-21-2008, 11:21 AM
So it's a bank holiday here today, and I'm only having to work about half time, so I've spent most of the day watching Paradise Lost, a documentary about three teenage boys that were convicted of murdering 3 grade skill boys in a satanic ritual in Arkansas 15 years ago. I don't know how I'd never heard about this case before, and was amazed that one of my English friends turned me onto it. The link below is an organization that's trying to get them free, as they think they are innocent.

Link (http://www.wm3.org)

I'd be interested to hear what any of the lawyers on the board have to say about it. I gotta admit, the evidence seems to have a lot of holes in it, and the victims dad that's constantly raving into the camera throughout the whole movie is a nut, but I haven't been exposed to enough of it yet to render a firm opinion.

At the very least, I recommend the documentary, and the sequel to it that was made. Entertaining is the wrong word... maybe engrossing is a better way to describe it.

Anyone have an opinion?

Brock
03-21-2008, 11:22 AM
It's definitely worth a look and so is the sequel. I don't really have an opinion about their guilt though.

Ultra Peanut
03-21-2008, 11:23 AM
Shit's ****ed up.

Pestilence
03-21-2008, 11:28 AM
I remember watching this on HBO a long time ago.

Chiefnj2
03-21-2008, 11:34 AM
It's been years since I've seen it. There is a sequel that is good. I believe they found a partial bite mark on one of the deceased and it did not match any of the three. IIRC, the nutty dad/step dad of one of the deceased (the one with the knife with blood) apparently had all of his teeth voluntarily extracted before they could get a bite sample from him. Draw your own conclusions.

NewChief
03-21-2008, 11:35 AM
It's nuttiness for sure. I'm pretty disappointed. The current AG of Arkansas was one of my fraternity brothers, and he's refusing to reopen the case. I had hopes once he came into office that they'd have a full-on reinvestigation of the murders.

raybec 4
03-21-2008, 11:53 AM
my wife and I have been watching this for a few years and there is some new DNA evidence that should get all 3 boys a new trial at least. The DNA belongs to one of the victims step father.

Ari Chi3fs
03-21-2008, 11:57 AM
Eddie Vedder is one of the WM3's friends, and the main one, I don't recall his name, cowrote a song on one of their last albums.

It is a weird deal.

beavis
03-21-2008, 11:58 AM
It's nuttiness for sure. I'm pretty disappointed. The current AG of Arkansas was one of my fraternity brothers, and he's refusing to reopen the case. I had hopes once he came into office that they'd have a full-on reinvestigation of the murders.

This is what I don't understand. It seems to me that there is clearly enough evidence to at the very least warrant a new trial. I just can't figure out what they seem to be covering up. If it's just the fact that they screwed up, or were inept... then it's just sad. If it's some form of corruption in the state system, it's really scary.

Deberg_1990
03-21-2008, 11:58 AM
Yea, this used to be on HBO alot back in the mid 90's. I think it even won several awards.

great documentary.

JBucc
03-21-2008, 11:58 AM
wm3.org

beavis
03-21-2008, 12:06 PM
Eddie Vedder is one of the WM3's friends, and the main one, I don't recall his name, cowrote a song on one of their last albums.

It is a weird deal.

.

NewChief
03-21-2008, 12:22 PM
my wife and I have been watching this for a few years and there is some new DNA evidence that should get all 3 boys a new trial at least. The DNA belongs to one of the victims step father.

The last I'd heard, Dustin McDaniel (the Arkansas AG) said that the "new" DNA evidence wasn't enough to warrant a reopening of the case. That was the disappointment I referred to in another thread. Maybe something new has come about, though?

NewChief
03-21-2008, 12:24 PM
This is what I don't understand. It seems to me that there is clearly enough evidence to at the very least warrant a new trial. I just can't figure out what they seem to be covering up. If it's just the fact that they screwed up, or were inept... then it's just sad. If it's some form of corruption in the state system, it's really scary.

As sad as it is, I really think that the WM3 are suffering from the stubborn nature of Arkansans. The people involved seem to feel that Hollywood liberals and other outsiders are trying to poke their noses in where they don't belong and stir up trouble that they don't understand. They claim that the documentaries and media barrages are misleading and motivated by outside forces. As sad as it is, I also think that there is quite a bit of superstition at play in that people may feel that Echols and company really were working for Satan and all of this outside pressure to free them is also coming from satanic forces, ala Frank Peretti.

beavis
03-21-2008, 12:54 PM
As sad as it is, I really think that the WM3 are suffering from the stubborn nature of Arkansans. The people involved seem to feel that Hollywood liberals and other outsiders are trying to poke their noses in where they don't belong and stir up trouble that they don't understand. They claim that the documentaries and media barrages are misleading and motivated by outside forces. As sad as it is, I also think that there is quite a bit of superstition at play in that people may feel that Echols and company really were working for Satan and all of this outside pressure to free them is also coming from satanic forces, ala Frank Peretti.

It's interesting to hear you say that, because I was kind of getting that vibe too.

Al Czervik
03-21-2008, 01:03 PM
Gang,

The WM3 are guilty as hell. Both those films were propaganda jokes with
the sole intention of making the 3 murdering scumbags appear innocent.
In fact, the film makers decided they were innocent 10 minutes after meeting
the scumbags....BEFORE the trial!

This so called testing that was done was never going to prove them innocent.
They only tested stuff that wouldnt prove any guilt, and they knew it.

No Alibis, the main culprit lied his ass off on the stand....

Nope, Guilty as hell. The AG in Arkansas is absolutely correct in his statements.

Just Google WM3 Guilty. You can find alot of information about it if you desire.

Duck Dog
03-21-2008, 02:31 PM
My wife and I watched both videos

I recommend them both.

Duck Dog
03-21-2008, 02:40 PM
Gang,

The WM3 are guilty as hell. Both those films were propaganda jokes with
the sole intention of making the 3 murdering scumbags appear innocent.
In fact, the film makers decided they were innocent 10 minutes after meeting
the scumbags....BEFORE the trial!

This so called testing that was done was never going to prove them innocent.
They only tested stuff that wouldnt prove any guilt, and they knew it.

No Alibis, the main culprit lied his ass off on the stand....

Nope, Guilty as hell. The AG in Arkansas is absolutely correct in his statements.

Just Google WM3 Guilty. You can find alot of information about it if you desire.


Other than the one boys confessions, there is more evidence that points to the one victims step dad.

Al Czervik
03-21-2008, 02:55 PM
Other than the one boys confessions, there is more evidence that points to the one victims step dad.

Wrong, but please feel free to elaborate. Since all THREE confessed at one time, and another confessed three times, one after he was convicted, I would like to hear about this evidence.

Halfcan
03-21-2008, 03:05 PM
I think what got me believing they were guilty is this:

If you watch the tape Very close-just before the verdict is coming in-the blond haired kid is asked-"what are you going to do when you beat this, go to Disneyland?"

You can tell by his face-he KNEW he was going to jail. If he was truly innocent-there would have been at least a glimmer of hope. But he hung his head and just shuffled by the answer. He was not outraged and angry when the verdict came in either. They knew they had to pay for what he did.

As far as that crazy Bastard step dad-I firmly believe he was abusing the boy-( hence the bite marks) and probably sexually molesting him for some time. He looked guilty because he KNEW all the sick shit he did to that poor kid while he was alive-and then transfered those feelings of guilt onto the WM3.

So I guess that about wraps it up.

eazyb81
03-21-2008, 03:36 PM
Sounds like a f#cked up story. It seems like the police screwed up big time, but also the kids just seem like they're guilty, and I agree that step dad is a weirdo.

John_Wayne
03-21-2008, 05:34 PM
Why haven't these 3 been executed yet? That's the crime. They should be taking a dirt nap right now. They are sick and brutal murderers.

Al Czervik
03-21-2008, 05:54 PM
Why haven't these 3 been executed yet? That's the crime. They should be taking a dirt nap right now. They are sick and brutal murderers.


BINGO!!!

beavis
03-22-2008, 04:44 AM
Gang,

The WM3 are guilty as hell. Both those films were propaganda jokes with
the sole intention of making the 3 murdering scumbags appear innocent.
In fact, the film makers decided they were innocent 10 minutes after meeting
the scumbags....BEFORE the trial!

This so called testing that was done was never going to prove them innocent.
They only tested stuff that wouldnt prove any guilt, and they knew it.

No Alibis, the main culprit lied his ass off on the stand....

Nope, Guilty as hell. The AG in Arkansas is absolutely correct in his statements.

Just Google WM3 Guilty. You can find alot of information about it if you desire.

I don't think it's quite the slam dunk you think it is.

What about the bite marks that don't match any of the three?

What about the way his wife died with no explanation and no autopsy report released to the public?

What about the idea of his son never getting his meds because his junky mother was taking them?

What about him passing a lie detector while on a combination 5 mood altering drugs?

Al Czervik
03-22-2008, 08:40 AM
I don't think it's quite the slam dunk you think it is.

What about the bite marks that don't match any of the three?

What about the way his wife died with no explanation and no autopsy report released to the public?

What about the idea of his son never getting his meds because his junky mother was taking them?

What about him passing a lie detector while on a combination 5 mood altering drugs?

They were not bite marks. It was proven by several experts. The only people that said they were bite marks were the WM3 crusaders and the film makers.

The wife was a drug addict who lost her will to live after her son was brutally murdered. Nothing unusual was discovered during the autopsy and he was never charged.

His son was taking Ritalin. Not something a herion addict really desires.

So, if you want to use a Lie detector test as proof, then you would agree that 2 of the convicts failed theirs. You sure you want to go there?

Chiefnj2
03-22-2008, 09:11 AM
The kids were too dumb not to have left any evidence behind or taken any away with them.

beavis
03-22-2008, 10:23 AM
They were not bite marks. It was proven by several experts. The only people that said they were bite marks were the WM3 crusaders and the film makers.

The wife was a drug addict who lost her will to live after her son was brutally murdered. Nothing unusual was discovered during the autopsy and he was never charged.

His son was taking Ritalin. Not something a herion addict really desires.

So, if you want to use a Lie detector test as proof, then you would agree that 2 of the convicts failed theirs. You sure you want to go there?

Really, so the profiler they used in the film wasn't a valid expert? I'd be interested to hear why.

I haven't seen anything about 2 of them failed a lie detector. If you have documentation of it, I'd be interested to see it.

beavis
03-22-2008, 10:23 AM
The kids were too dumb not to have left any evidence behind or taken any away with them.

Another excellent point.

underEJ
03-22-2008, 10:27 AM
I am always amazed by people on both sides who can be so sure they are right based on what they find out through google. Guilty or not, it is pretty clear if you read the actual transcripts and statements to the police, that "fair" was never a part of the legal program in this case.

From unconstitutional interview techniques of an intellectually challenged boy without his mother, to pressure and testimony from a supposed youth satanism specialist who had his own agenda against one of the boys, to the protection of a step father who has connections in the police force of two cities as an informant.

Not excusing the filmmakers either. They clearly had one view in mind, and pressed their own agenda against the crazy step father, who by the way is not the owner of the new DNA. That is the other quiet step father's. But the filmmakers were so sure the crazy dude did it because of how he looked and the things he was involved in, exactly what they were rallying against in the legal case.

Unfair prejudice everywhere. Someone outside the area needs to investigate all over again and retry outside the state of Arkansas.

Gang,

The WM3 are guilty as hell. Both those films were propaganda jokes with
the sole intention of making the 3 murdering scumbags appear innocent.
In fact, the film makers decided they were innocent 10 minutes after meeting
the scumbags....BEFORE the trial!

This so called testing that was done was never going to prove them innocent.
They only tested stuff that wouldnt prove any guilt, and they knew it.

No Alibis, the main culprit lied his ass off on the stand....

Nope, Guilty as hell. The AG in Arkansas is absolutely correct in his statements.

Just Google WM3 Guilty. You can find alot of information about it if you desire.

Ultra Peanut
03-22-2008, 11:44 AM
Guilty or not, it is pretty clear if you read the actual transcripts and statements to the police, that "fair" was never a part of the legal program in this case.
Exactly. From living in the area and seeing the media circus that it became as it happened, there was no way those poor bastards were going to get a fair trail.

Also, just as an update of sorts, the crazy step-father that was followed in the documentary recently came out in support of a re-trial due to his belief that they weren't who committed the crime.

Bob Dole
03-22-2008, 11:57 AM
Eddie Vedder is one of the WM3's friends, and the main one, I don't recall his name, cowrote a song on one of their last albums.

It is a weird deal.

Don't know how involved he is, but Bob Dole got up and left the U2 concert in Dallas a few years ago when Bono insisted on carrying around a "Free the WM3" sign and then ranting about the injustice for 5 minutes. Bob Dole thought he bought tickets to a concert--not a political rally.

eazyb81
03-22-2008, 12:06 PM
Exactly. From living in the area and seeing the media circus that it became as it happened, there was no way those poor bastards were going to get a fair trail.

Also, just as an update of sorts, the crazy step-father that was followed in the documentary recently came out in support of a re-trial due to his belief that they weren't who committed the crime.

So what do most people in the area believe? Do they think it was that "Mr. Bojangles" guy or a person/group who has yet to be discovered?

Ultra Peanut
03-22-2008, 12:14 PM
So what do most people in the area believe? Do they think it was that "Mr. Bojangles" guy or a person/group who has yet to be discovered?Honestly, it's not something I really bring up or think about. From what I can tell, though, opinions are fairly split amongst the "ridiculous mockery of justice" and "fry the bastards" crowds.

There's probably not as much press devoted to it as there should be around here.

melbar
03-22-2008, 12:17 PM
Theres been so much controversy that I think it at least warrents a 2nd look. The thing that gets me about this is that they are fighting so hard against looking at it any further. When an authority figure fights so hard to avoid something that could so easily be resolved, there is useually a reason. If they are proven guilty again, then fry 'em. If they're found innocent, pay up and let them go.

Ultra Peanut
03-22-2008, 12:20 PM
Theres been so much controversy that I think it at least warrents a 2nd look. The thing that gets me about this is that they are fighting so hard against looking at it any further. When an authority figure fights so hard to avoid something that could so easily be resolved, there is useually a reason. If they are proven guilty again, then fry 'em. If they're found innocent, pay up and let them go.It reminds me a lot of the Genarlow Wilson case, only perhaps even more egregious. We're talking about refusing to cast away all doubt surrounding one of the most grisly, well-publicized murders the state has seen. Why be so obstinate in the face of so many irregularities that you're not even willing to clear things up?

melbar
03-22-2008, 02:23 PM
I just watched the Larry King interview on their site. I didnt realize that so much is still going on. The "crazy" stepdad sure did change his tune as soon as he saw some physical evidence pointing at someone else. 2 sets of parents now wanting the new evidence reviewed. Does anyone know what DNA evidence was found? Blood, hair, etc?

Al Czervik
03-22-2008, 04:01 PM
I have been posting about this case for many years.
I am convinced the 3 are guilty. I have read all the transcripts
and can tell you there is a reason why they are still in jail.

Its not because of injustice or crooked cops.......
You can read everything here....without any bias....

http://callahan.8k.com/

Thanks

Ari Chi3fs
03-22-2008, 04:07 PM
Don't know how involved he is, but Bob Dole got up and left the U2 concert in Dallas a few years ago when Bono insisted on carrying around a "Free the WM3" sign and then ranting about the injustice for 5 minutes. Bob Dole thought he bought tickets to a concert--not a political rally.

Bob Dole, obviously, isn't that familiar with U2. heh.

Ultra Peanut
03-22-2008, 04:23 PM
I have been posting about this case for many years.
I am convinced the 3 are guilty. I have read all the transcripts
and can tell you there is a reason why they are still in jail.

Its not because of injustice or crooked cops.......
You can read everything here....without any bias....

http://callahan.8k.com/

ThanksIf I may ask, what is it that convinced you that they were guilty? Which pieces of evidence, in particular, were compelling?

Bob Dole, obviously, isn't that familiar with U2. heh.Bob Dole was at a U2 concert. Ha ha.

Al Czervik
03-22-2008, 05:21 PM
If I may ask, what is it that convinced you that they were guilty? Which pieces of evidence, in particular, were compelling?

Number one was their alibi's. Not one had a valid alibi. In addition, Echols lied about his alibi on the stand, and all of Miskelleys witness were exposed as lying as well.

Also, Echols mental health history is extensive.

All told, when pieced together, it proves guilty for me.

Thanks for asking...