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jjchieffan
03-22-2008, 12:00 AM
I was in favor of the Chiefs trading down if a good deal came along. Until I read this.

Trading Down Can Help, Hurt
Mar 21, 2008, 3:54:21 AM by Bob Gretz - FAQ

Buyer beware. But the same goes for the seller, especially when whatís being sold is position in the first round of the NFL Draft.

Thereís been a lot of talk around Arrowhead Stadium about the Chiefs fifth spot in the first round and the desire to trade down from that spot. The idea of course is to pick up extra picks, especially those in the money rounds like the second and third.

History, however, has shown the Chiefs have seldom gotten anything out of trading down in the first round.

Dropping in the round only works if those extra draft picks acquired in a trade pay off in talent. In three cases since 1989, the Chiefs have traded down in the first round. In total, the deals resulted in 10 draft choices with seven extra picks

Yet, two of those seven never played a regular season game for the Chiefs; one never even played a pre-season game. And, if you knew that the best performer among those seven added choices was wide receiver Samie Parker, would that tell you trading down isnít always the way to go.

Itís the good, the bad and the ugly when it has come to the Chiefs trading down in the first round.

GOOD/2003
The Chiefs traded the 16th selection in the first round to Pittsburgh. In exchange, they received the Steelers first-round choice (27th), third-round selection (92nd) and sixth round pick (200th).

Pittsburgh drafted safety Troy Polamalu at No. 16.

The Chiefs selected running back Larry Johnson and cornerback Julian Battle. They traded the sixth-round selection to the New York Jets in a deal that produced defensive lineman Jimmy Wilkerson.

While not without its warts, this deal worked out for the Chiefs. After a non-descript start to his career, Johnson has proven himself to be among the best running backs in the NFL. He enters the 2008 season having played in 56 games and running for 4,764 yards and 56 career touchdowns.

Battle was a bust on the cornerback, playing in 26 games over two seasons, with one start. He had 13 defensive tackles and seven tackles on special teams. This was especially hurtful because it came at a time when the Chiefs were trying desperately to fill holes on the corner. They ended up spending big money and draft choices in trading for Pat Surtain and then spending even more free agent dollars in signing Ty Law for two seasons.

Wilkerson played in 72 games with five starts over five seasons. He had one sack and 97 total tackles, along with 41 tackles on special teams, including 13 last season. He recently signed as an unrestricted free agent with Tampa Bay.

Among the players the Chiefs did not get a chance to draft because they moved down were Polamalu, linebacker Calvin Pace, center Jeff Faine, quarterback Rex Grossman, running back Willis McGahee and tight end Dallas Clark.

BAD/2004
The Chiefs traded the 30th choice in the first round to Detroit. In exchange they received the Lions second-round pick (36th), fourth round choice (105th) and a fifth-round selection in 2005.

Detroit drafted running back Kevin Jones at No. 30.

The Chiefs selected defensive tackle Junior Siavii, wide receiver Samie Parker and in the 2005 draft they drafted cornerback Alphonso Hodge.

Ouch! Siavii proved to be one of several wasted defensive tackle choices from the Vermeil Era drafts. He played in 26 games, contributing 27 tackles and one sack. Heís not played again in the NFL after the Chiefs released him in the 2006 pre-season.

Parker played four non-descript seasons with the Chiefs, appearing in 47 games with 31 starts. He had 110 catches for 1,529 yards and seven touchdowns. As the other receiver with Eddie Kennison, Parker was too inconsistent to become a major threat in the offense where he was usually the fourth receiving option behind Tony Gonzalez, Kennison and when he was healthy, Priest Holmes.

Hodge never played in a regular season game for the Chiefs, and has not played for anyone else.

By moving down, the Chiefs missed out on six players, including a couple of good ones in linebacker Karlos Dansby, guard Chris Snee and defensive tackle Igor Olshansky.

UGLY/1995
The Chiefs traded the 19th selection in the first round to Jacksonville. In exchange, they received the Jaguars first-round choice (31st), third-round pick (97th), fourth-round selection (134) and a 1996 fourth-round choice.

Jacksonville drafted running back James Stewart at No. 19.

The Chiefs selected tackle Trezelle Jenkins, linebacker Troy Dumas and quarterback Steve Stenstrom. The Ď96 choice was packaged with another choice and traded away in a separate deal the next season that helped the Chiefs trade up to get linebacker Donnie Edwards in the fourth round.

Other than providing some help to get Edwards, the deal was a disaster for the Chiefs. Jenkins rates as one of the greatest draft day busts in franchise history. In three seasons he played in nine games and made one start. Two weeks after that single start, he was released and he never again played in the league.

Dumas played 14 games with the Chiefs in 1996-97, contributing 14 tackles on special teams. He played two games in the Ď98 season with St. Louis.

Stenstrom never played a down for the Chiefs. He missed his entire rookie training camp and pre-season in a contract holdout. Eventually he was signed after the season started, then released, in hopes that he could be placed on the practice squad. But Stenstrom was claimed on waivers by Chicago and he ended up playing 17 games and starting 10 over three seasons with the Bears and 49ers. In his career he had four touchdown passes against 12 interceptions.

Among those players that the Chiefs did not get a chance to draft in the first round by dropping from 19th to 31st were defensive end Luther Ellis, cornerback Ty Law, tight end Mark Bruener and linebacker Derrick Brooks. Those 12 players played an average of 115 games in the NFL, with Law, Bruener and Brooks still active last season.

The three players acquired by the Chiefs in the deal played a total of 23 games.

AFTERMATH
So in those three deals we can tie nine players directly to the Chiefs. Only three became starters (Edwards, Johnson and Parker.) Only one was a frequently used backup (Wilkerson.) The other six played in a total of 75 games with two starts. Thatís an average of 12.5 games per those six players, or not even a full season of 16 games.

Seller beware.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/03/21/trading_down_can_help_hurt/

Mr. Laz
03-22-2008, 12:02 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=181897

jjchieffan
03-22-2008, 12:06 AM
Well crap. I missed that thread. My bad.

SBK
03-22-2008, 12:31 AM
Checking can be good/bad.

Halfcan
03-22-2008, 12:49 AM
repost can be good but yet be bad=seller beware

Rausch
03-22-2008, 12:54 AM
I think this is a perfect year to trade down but Carl get's $#it for value.

Even so I'd take any extra picks and fill the many holes we have...

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-22-2008, 10:59 AM
I think this is a perfect year to trade down but Carl get's $#it for value.

Even so I'd take any extra picks and fill the many holes we have...

No, a motherf*king billion times no. We cannot fix this team in one year, or even two. We need impact players, and if we trade down to 8 or ten, we aren't getting that.

We need Ellis, C. Long, Dorsey, or Gholston, and one of them will be available at 5.

stonedstooge
03-22-2008, 11:18 AM
I don't mind the re-building mode, I really don't. The only reason I dislike it is it could in all probability keep these two morons running the Chiefs here for years to come. Funny how they came out with this re-build half way through the season after all was lost. And then even the younger players were given little time to play. I think it was all a ruse for Einstein Edwards and King Carl to keep their jobs. Yes, lets rebuild, but it can be used as an excuse by these two as a reason to stay on the ship. We are in rebuild mode and you need us. Bullshit. Rebuild, but get rid of the two morons in charge of it.

If someone tries to act like they are intellectually above everyone else like Herm does, it usually means the opposite. They are dumb shits trying to act like everything they do has a "special meaning". Just like the recent visits to player workouts. The sad thing is I think Herm has himself convinced he's a cut above the rest of the NFL coaches. And the King I'm sure feels he does nothing wrong. Let's see, if I remember right, Clark said he wanted this team next year to be playoff competitive. You think that is going to happen? You think we can scrape the bottom of the barrel and find enough good players to challenge for a wildcard spot next year? Or do you think this little 9 game streak will continue. But I guarantee you Herm will be talking rebuilding as long as he can use it as an excuse to keep his job and people are dumb enough to listen to it. But watch out if you doubt him, he will throw his intelligence at you.:cuss:

Fish
03-22-2008, 11:48 AM
I don't mind the re-building mode, I really don't. The only reason I dislike it is it could in all probability keep these two morons running the Chiefs here for years to come. Funny how they came out with this re-build half way through the season after all was lost. And then even the younger players were given little time to play. I think it was all a ruse for Einstein Edwards and King Carl to keep their jobs. Yes, lets rebuild, but it can be used as an excuse by these two as a reason to stay on the ship. We are in rebuild mode and you need us. Bullshit. Rebuild, but get rid of the two morons in charge of it.

If someone tries to act like they are intellectually above everyone else like Herm does, it usually means the opposite. They are dumb shits trying to act like everything they do has a "special meaning". Just like the recent visits to player workouts. The sad thing is I think Herm has himself convinced he's a cut above the rest of the NFL coaches. And the King I'm sure feels he does nothing wrong. Let's see, if I remember right, Clark said he wanted this team next year to be playoff competitive. You think that is going to happen? You think we can scrape the bottom of the barrel and find enough good players to challenge for a wildcard spot next year? Or do you think this little 9 game streak will continue. But I guarantee you Herm will be talking rebuilding as long as he can use it as an excuse to keep his job and people are dumb enough to listen to it. But watch out if you doubt him, he will throw his intelligence at you.:cuss:

So Herm is too dumb to tie his own shoes, but he somehow hoodwinked an organization worth some $700M just so he could run it in the ground? By throwing intelligence at them?

Got it.

The only reason I dislike it is it could in all probability keep these two morons running the Chiefs here for years to come.

And I don't get this. Are you afraid that if Herm's rebuild works, he'll be around longer? But that would mean the Chiefs have a good young team. Do you hate Herm so much that even if he made the team worthy, you'd be mad because it was him that did it? I sense that a lot from the Herm hater club....

The guy has his flaws, but he's going about the inevitable rebuild much better than most people ever thought he would. There's certainly no guarantee that it will work, but he's putting us in a position that has better odds of success than what we've been doing for the last decade or more.

mrpopo
03-22-2008, 11:52 AM
:doh!:

milkman
03-22-2008, 11:56 AM
And I don't get this. Are you afraid that if Herm's rebuild works, he'll be around longer? But that would mean the Chiefs have a good young team. Do you hate Herm so much that even if he made the team worthy, you'd be mad because it was him that did it? I sense that a lot from the Herm hater club....

The guy has his flaws, but he's going about the inevitable rebuild much better than most people ever thought he would. There's certainly no guarantee that it will work, but he's putting us in a position that has better odds of success than what we've been doing for the last decade or more.

Most of us "Herm haters" think that even if he does a great job in rebuilding, he, like Marty in the 90s, can not get this team to the SB.

Herman ****ing Edwards has shown us that he's a piss poor game manager, and in the playoffs that will bite the Chiefs in the ass.

Mr. Laz
03-22-2008, 12:00 PM
:doh!:http://torredekarin.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/mr-popo-01.jpg

suds79
03-22-2008, 02:08 PM
Rarely do you get the chance to draft an elite player. With the 5th pick in the draft, that should happen.... It just might not be in a position on need. (and that's okay)

Take the best player. Then we'll worry about the other need positions in the rest of the draft where the Chiefs have to hit on those guys to have a chance.

The blown 2nd rounders and such have killed us.

milkman
03-22-2008, 03:03 PM
Rarely do you get the chance to draft an elite player. With the 5th pick in the draft, that should happen.... It just might not be in a position on need. (and that's okay)

Take the best player. Then we'll worry about the other need positions in the rest of the draft where the Chiefs have to hit on those guys to have a chance.

The blown 2nd rounders and such have killed us.

Drafting for need on the first DAY has killed us, and why we have so many blown 2nd rounders.

BIG K
03-22-2008, 03:07 PM
Umm, sorry,

Carl Peterson sucks at drafting in general......

Wonder what UCLA prospects they end up with this year...