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Carlota69
03-25-2008, 02:32 PM
A Florida congressman is suggesting that a brokered convention for the Democrats could lead to some pretty unexpected results. In other words, forget about Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.

Representative Tim Mahoney says he wouldn’t be surprised if someone different is at the top of the ticket. He says a compromise candidate could be someone like Al Gore.

In a newspaper interview, Mahoney said if the convention is deadlocked and either Clinton or Obama suggested a Gore-Obama or Gore-Clinton ticket, the party would accept it.

Mahoney is one of the almost 800 superdelegates who would get to cast a vote at the convention. He hasn’t endorsed either Clinton or Obama yet, but has been wooed by both.

It’s an interesting idea. It’s not clear if Democrats really know what they’re in for if this nasty battle continues all the way to the Denver convention. The way things are going, there could be enough acrimony by the time it’s over that neither Obama nor Clinton would any longer be viewed as electable.

Al Gore has insisted he won’t run and that he has “no plans to be a candidate”, although he’s also said “I see no reason to rule it out entirely.” And, it’s worth pointing out that the former vice president and Nobel Prize winner has not yet endorsed either Clinton or Obama. So stay tuned.

HonestChieffan
03-25-2008, 02:36 PM
More sign that neither Obama or Hillary is seen as strong enough to make the run. I think its folly and that the party has to turn to Mrs. Clinton to get them out of this mess and distance from Obama. The problem is how will they do it. The super delegates as well as enough defections among the elected delegates, the Michigan/Florida flap and the fact Obama has not carried the big electoral college states of California, New York...it all starts to look like the Clinton folks have the right moves ahead and Obama is just not going to be seen as electable.

HolmeZz
03-25-2008, 02:38 PM
I would've been fine with that prior to Obama proving he's as viable as he's become. Now there's no point.

Sully
03-25-2008, 02:39 PM
Where do I sign up?

Alphaman
03-25-2008, 02:49 PM
More sign that neither Obama or Hillary is seen as strong enough to make the run. I think its folly and that the party has to turn to Mrs. Clinton to get them out of this mess and distance from Obama. The problem is how will they do it. The super delegates as well as enough defections among the elected delegates, the Michigan/Florida flap and the fact Obama has not carried the big electoral college states of California, New York...it all starts to look like the Clinton folks have the right moves ahead and Obama is just not going to be seen as electable.

The whole "electoral college states" argument is now being debunked. Analysis is showing it is just not a strong argument.

Bootlegged
03-25-2008, 02:50 PM
Seriously - is this the best that can be mustered? Recycled losers, more Clintons/Bushes? Why bother?

HonestChieffan
03-25-2008, 03:00 PM
Its not de bunkable...its just nother measure that the superdelegates can use to try to come to a decision. How do you debunk a possible measurement approach? The SD's have to come up with each ones own way to justify how they cast their vote.

Brock
03-25-2008, 03:14 PM
Yeah, great. go with the proven loser.

Ultra Peanut
03-25-2008, 04:17 PM
Obama/Gore would be fine, but he wouldn't want that job.

To be honest, he obviously doesn't want the head job, either.

ClevelandBronco
03-25-2008, 04:25 PM
A white man is the middle ground between a white woman and a black man?

Yeah. That's the way to excite democrat voters.

jAZ
03-25-2008, 05:47 PM
Its not de bunkable...its just nother measure that the superdelegates can use to try to come to a decision. How do you debunk a possible measurement approach? The SD's have to come up with each ones own way to justify how they cast their vote.
Aren't you the guy who was just telling Obama that he should just ignore Hillary's hammering him over Wright and it will just go away?

It's the same thing.

She's not letting the issue go away because she's trying to sway these same SD's that you ackowldge here might just be succeptable to gut feelings rather than measurments. Your advice to Obama was to just let her do exactly that.

Logical
03-25-2008, 05:59 PM
I suspect that would result in a landslide win for the Dems.

jAZ
03-25-2008, 06:06 PM
I suspect that would result in a landslide win for the Dems.

My #1 dream ticket.
My #2 is Obama/Clark, which I think is MUCH more realistic.

Gore/Obama would be amazing.... seriously.

memyselfI
03-25-2008, 06:24 PM
I would love the Gore part. But I would not want Obamessiah as his running mate unless Gore chooses him. I think Al Gore has earned the right to choose his own God damned America, er, running mate. :cuss:

Rain Man
03-25-2008, 06:47 PM
Obama/Gore would be fine, but he wouldn't want that job.

To be honest, he obviously doesn't want the head job, either.

An interesting question arises from this, at least to me. Are there term limits for vice president, or just president? I don't recall ever hearing about term limits for vice-president.

patteeu
03-25-2008, 07:36 PM
Where do I sign up?

My #1 dream ticket.
...

Gore/Obama would be amazing.... seriously.

Whatever happened to the will of the people as expressed in the many primaries and caucuses (minus Florida and Michigan, of course) being determinative?

Rain Man
03-25-2008, 07:39 PM
Whatever happened to the will of the people as expressed in the many primaries and caucuses (minus Florida and Michigan, of course) being determinative?

You're such a stickler about those things. This is far too important to let the people decide.

keg in kc
03-25-2008, 07:40 PM
If you're banking on being the future and a force for change, why in the holy hell would you hitch your wagon to a guy who spent two terms in the white house starting 16 years ago and who lost the 2000 election to a hybrid clown/poorly-trained chimpanzee?

patteeu
03-25-2008, 08:10 PM
I think an interesting combination that might be hard for McCain to beat would be an Obama/Huckabee ticket. I don't think it will happen, but it would really turn the race on it's head if it did.

dirk digler
03-25-2008, 08:19 PM
I think an interesting combination that might be hard for McCain to beat would be an Obama/Huckabee ticket. I don't think it will happen, but it would really turn the race on it's head if it did.

Now that would be awesome but it will never happen

patteeu
03-25-2008, 08:26 PM
Now that would be awesome but it will never happen

Awesome? I was gagging as I typed it. :)

jAZ
03-25-2008, 09:08 PM
Whatever happened to the will of the people as expressed in the many primaries and caucuses (minus Florida and Michigan, of course) being determinative?
What does that have to do with this being my dream ticket?

jAZ
03-25-2008, 09:11 PM
Awesome? I was gagging as I typed it. :)
<strike>Awesome</strike> Amusing.

patteeu
03-26-2008, 05:35 AM
What does that have to do with this being my dream ticket?

If you're still dreaming of it, you're dreaming of a result that ignores the votes of millions of people that have already been cast. If, OTOH, all you meant was that that's the ticket you at one time would have liked to see, but now it's too late and you'd oppose that kind of anti-democratic result, then nothing.

pikesome
03-26-2008, 05:41 AM
If you're still dreaming of it, you're dreaming of a result that ignores the votes of millions of people that have already been cast. If, OTOH, all you meant was that that's the ticket you at one time would have liked to see, but now it's too late and you'd oppose that kind of anti-democratic result, then nothing.

"It's all right if it's what I want."

jAZ
03-26-2008, 09:07 AM
If you're still dreaming of it, you're dreaming of a result that ignores the votes of millions of people that have already been cast. If, OTOH, all you meant was that that's the ticket you at one time would have liked to see, but now it's too late and you'd oppose that kind of anti-democratic result, then nothing.

My dream is that we had this ticket from the beginning.

jAZ
03-26-2008, 09:09 AM
"It's all right if it's what I want."
What's your dream ticket?

patteeu
03-26-2008, 09:10 AM
My dream is that we had this ticket from the beginning.

You're against overriding the will of the voters at this point though, right?

jAZ
03-26-2008, 09:22 AM
You're against overriding the will of the voters at this point though, right?
Yes, absolutely. At this point, we appear to be likely to end up with a clear nominee.

And the same would be true for me if Hillary hadn't been such a terrible candidate early on and she was sailing to the nomination as expected.

If once the voting is over, there is no nominee (ie, it comes down to a brokered convention... and the results of the election are being scrapped or there was a hung jury of some sort)... Then it becomes a new situation entirely and Gore would surely enter the discussion again.

But as of now, that's not going to happen (and I hope it doesn't).

I just wish he had chosen to run initially.

jAZ
03-26-2008, 09:28 AM
I just wish he had chosen to run initially.
My dream (for it to work out) would somehow involve Gore entering early... Obama winning Iowa (or somehow demonstrating his fundraising and organizational capacity) but having Gore winning the nomination early and then having Gore see the value in Obama as a runningmate.

Don't see how that would have transpired in reality though. Gore enters and he sucks up all the money, supporters and attention and Obama's abilities don't get the large stage he actually ended up getting.

patteeu
03-26-2008, 09:33 AM
Yes, absolutely. At this point, we appear to be likely to end up with a clear nominee.

And the same would be true for me if Hillary hadn't been such a terrible candidate early on and she was sailing to the nomination as expected.

If once the voting is over, there is no nominee (ie, it comes down to a brokered convention... and the results of the election are being scrapped or there was a hung jury of some sort)... Then it becomes a new situation entirely and Gore would surely enter the discussion again.

But as of now, that's not going to happen (and I hope it doesn't).

I just wish he had chosen to run initially.

That sounds like a pretty big loophole you're leaving for yourself there. Let's stipulate that Obama is going to go into the convention with a significant lead in pledged delegates, but not enough pledged delegates to wrap up the nomination. Are you opposed to the super delegates turning the election in any direction other than Obama at that point?

If the super delegates split and leave the party without a nominee after the first ballot, are you, at that point, willing to abandon the will of the voters and accept that Hillary or Gore could be acceptable nominees (even if you personally don't want to see Hillary)?

Would you support Hillary if she got the nomination under this scenario? Gore?

jAZ
03-26-2008, 10:34 AM
Let's stipulate that Obama is going to go into the convention with a significant lead in pledged delegates...
In this case, Obama should be the nominee, not Gore or Hillary.

patteeu
03-26-2008, 10:44 AM
In this case, Obama should be the nominee, not Gore or Hillary.

Fair enough. If the democrats end up rejecting Obama anyway, under that scenario, would you support the nominee they end up picking anyway (let's say it's Gore for the sake of discussion)?

jAZ
03-26-2008, 11:04 AM
Would you support Hillary if she got the nomination under this scenario? Gore?
I'd have a hard time supporting anyone but Obama if he won the pledged delegate race by a significant margin and the Superdelegates overturned that outcome for either Gore or Clinton.

There are exceptions to this, of course. Either party would welcome the overturning of the primary results if the front-running candidate had a devastating blow in July. If on July 1st, McCain is discovered to be a pedophile, the Republican delegates (or Dems were the roles reverse) would, even though they are ALL pledged to a candidate (ie, not even unpledged SDs) would switch their votes to another candidate.

The issue is when you've got a robust candidate who's won the popular results but the party insiders change that outcome because of political loyalies or connections.

THAT is the issue that people were objecting to perviously WRT to Clinton vs Obama. She's realized that her insider-status wasn't going to suffciently influence the SDs because of those objections... so she switch to the "Tonia Harding" strategy of trying to force their hand by destroying Obama. That doesn't seem to be working, but she's not given up hope, I guess.

patteeu
03-26-2008, 11:14 AM
I'd have a hard time supporting anyone but Obama if he won the pledged delegate race by a significant margin and the Superdelegates overturned that outcome for either Gore or Clinton.

There are exceptions to this, of course. Either party would welcome the overturning of the primary results if the front-running candidate had a devastating blow in July. If on July 1st, McCain is discovered to be a pedophile, the Republican delegates (or Dems were the roles reverse) would, even though they are ALL pledged to a candidate (ie, not even unpledged SDs) would switch their votes to another candidate.

The issue is when you've got a robust candidate who's won the popular results but the party insiders change that outcome because of political loyalies or connections.

THAT is the issue that people were objecting to perviously WRT to Clinton vs Obama. She's realized that her insider-status wasn't going to suffciently influence the SDs because of those objections... so she switch to the "Tonia Harding" strategy of trying to force their hand by destroying Obama. That doesn't seem to be working, but she's not given up hope, I guess.

It seems to be working alright to me. Obama can still recover, but with the scorecard showing Obama in the lead by 3 or 4 rounds, she seems to be wailing on him in the corner late in the 14th round of a 15 round fight.

StcChief
03-26-2008, 11:39 AM
You're against overriding the will of the voters at this point though, right?
Voters/smoters this isn't a democracy to Dems. Trust us Big Al and Obama will bring change, you won't be able to afford the change but it will be here.

BigOlChiefsfan
03-26-2008, 01:37 PM
Well, that pairing will sew up the drowning polar bears who HOPE for CHANGE vote. Talk about an all-white constituency who won't care about Rev. Wright...

patteeu
03-26-2008, 01:54 PM
Well, that pairing will sew up the drowning polar bears who HOPE for CHANGE vote. Talk about an all-white constituency who won't care about Rev. Wright...

:LOL:

whoman69
03-27-2008, 03:10 PM
Much as people voted for Dubyah while fondly remembering the dud presidency of his father, some Dems are looking at Gore with rose colored glasses. Does the fact that he took on Dubyah's idea of global warming erase the fact that he was an early casualty in the race against Dukakis in 1988. He only stayed in as long as he did because he torpedoed the campaign of Gephardt with half truths and innuendoes. Are we forgetting the fact that his 2000 campaign was one of the most lackluster since the days of Fritz Mondale and George McGovern? This guy couldn't light a fire under the party if he had a flamethrower. He is one of the most boring, pretentious and least inspiring politicians in history.
If the Democrats want to hand the keys off to Al Gore, they may as well just go out polish the presidential limosine so that McCain will have it ready for his inaugeration.