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View Full Version : Another "out of context" quote from Obama's pastor


patteeu
03-26-2008, 09:23 AM
He refused to be defined by others and Dr. Asa Hilliard also refused to be defined by others. The government runs everything from the White House to the schoolhouse, from the Capitol to the Klan, white supremacy is clearly in charge, but Asa, like Jesus, refused to be defined by an oppressive government because Asa got his identity from an Omnipotent God.

link (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200803/POL20080326a.html)

Here's a fun game idea. Imagine the context that could make this quote seem reasonable. I'm drawing a blank.

jettio
03-26-2008, 10:09 AM
Mitteeu W.,

You ought to change the thread title to "Another Tiresome Hannity-pack thread that will drop down the board like a lead ballon."

Radar Chief
03-26-2008, 10:10 AM
Mitteeu W., you ought to change the thread title to another tiresome Hannity-pack thread that will drop down the board like a lead ballon.

Think anyone is going to buy this whine you’re selling?

vailpass
03-26-2008, 10:21 AM
Mitteeu W.,

You ought to change the thread title to "Another Tiresome Hannity-pack thread that will drop down the board like a lead ballon."

Are you dizzy yet?

Sully
03-26-2008, 10:22 AM
I'm offended and angry at the "garlic-nosed" comment, if he did indeed say that. I think that's the first truly racist thing I've seen attributed to him.
The other stuff is more conspiracy-theory stuff, IMO, which isn't good, but far less worrisome.
However, I still don't see a pattern of racism, or see any reason Obama should be smeared for his comments. But I'm sure anti-Obama types will be ready to use it against him. Not that they were going to vote for him, anyway.

patteeu
03-26-2008, 10:25 AM
I'm offended and angry at the "garlic-nosed" comment, if he did indeed say that. I think that's the first truly racist thing I've seen attributed to him.
The other stuff is more conspiracy-theory stuff, IMO, which isn't good, but far less worrisome.
However, I still don't see a pattern of racism, or see any reason Obama should be smeared for his comments. But I'm sure anti-Obama types will be ready to use it against him. Not that they were going to vote for him, anyway.

You're less concerned about the weird conspiracy stuff than the "garlic-nosed" comment? I'm just the opposite.

Sully
03-26-2008, 10:27 AM
You're less concerned about the weird conspiracy stuff than the "garlic-nosed" comment? I'm just the opposite.

Conspiracy theories can easily be debunked by those interested in doing so. if they can't, at what point do they become less of a conspiracy theory than a legit question?
At worst, they lead to questions to power, which is never a bad thing, IMO.

Racism is far more damaging to far greater numbers of people.

patteeu
03-26-2008, 10:37 AM
My wife converted to Catholicism. She grew up without religion. We both thought it would be good for our kids to grow up in a church and she was seeking spiritual meaning so we decided to go with Catholicism because it was what I grew up with and what most of my family still practice. I was surprised at how much effort it took for her to convert. She had to attend education sessions every Sunday after church for a year. To make a long story short, she got into it so much that now she's trying to get me to go to all kinds of optional church events, she's volunteered for all kinds of jobs and committees around the parish. She's become far more active than the vast majority of Catholics that I've ever known.

I was reminded of my wife when I read this Thomas Sowell observation about Obama (http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/ThomasSowell/2008/03/26/the_audacity_of_rhetoric?page=full&comments=true):

It is painful to watch defenders of Barack Obama tying themselves into knots trying to evade the obvious.

Some are saying that Senator Obama cannot be held responsible for what his pastor, Jeremiah Wright, said. In their version of events, Barack Obama just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time -- and a bunch of mean-spirited people are trying to make something out of it.

It makes a good story, but it won't stand up under scrutiny.

Barack Obama's own account of his life shows that he consciously sought out people on the far left fringe. In college, "I chose my friends carefully," he said in his first book, "Dreams From My Father."

These friends included "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets" -- in Obama's own words -- as well as the "more politically active black students." He later visited a former member of the terrorist Weatherman underground, who endorsed him when he ran for state senator.

Obama didn't just happen to encounter Jeremiah Wright, who just happened to say some way out things. Jeremiah Wright is in the same mold as the kinds of people Barack Obama began seeking out in college -- members of the left, anti-American counter-culture.

In Shelby Steele's brilliantly insightful book about Barack Obama -- "A Bound Man" -- it is painfully clear that Obama was one of those people seeking a racial identity that he had never really experienced in growing up in a white world. He was trying to become a convert to blackness, as it were -- and, like many converts, he went overboard.

more... (http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/ThomasSowell/2008/03/26/the_audacity_of_rhetoric?page=full&comments=true)

patteeu
03-26-2008, 10:40 AM
Conspiracy theories can easily be debunked by those interested in doing so. if they can't, at what point do they become less of a conspiracy theory than a legit question?
At worst, they lead to questions to power, which is never a bad thing, IMO.

Racism is far more damaging to far greater numbers of people.

These conspiracy theories are intended to stoke existing beliefs about racism. To divide rather than unite. They are far more dangerous and damaging than a single racist slur, IMO.

chagrin
03-26-2008, 10:41 AM
The words he used are real and offensive, just like the other garbage - how on Earth can it be spun any other way?

patteeu
03-26-2008, 10:47 AM
The words he used are real and offensive, just like the other garbage - how on Earth can it be spun any other way?

:shrug:

chagrin
03-26-2008, 10:51 AM
:shrug:

seriously, it's amazing how that works - Mitt Romney got run out on a rail because of his religious affiliations (regardless of what people say, that's the truth).
race, race, race - I'm tired of all that shit.

SBK
03-26-2008, 10:55 AM
The words he used are real and offensive, just like the other garbage - how on Earth can it be spun any other way?

Give his disciples time, they'll find a way.

Cave Johnson
03-26-2008, 03:46 PM
Interesting tidbit in this brouhaha. Wright hates America so much, he volunteered for three years in the Marines during Vietnam and three more as a naval medical technician. Where he was, no doubt, neglecting white soldiers.

jAZ
03-26-2008, 03:53 PM
How do we get these snippets without the full text? How does that happen?

noa
03-26-2008, 04:07 PM
I was reminded of my wife when I read this Thomas Sowell observation about Obama (http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/ThomasSowell/2008/03/26/the_audacity_of_rhetoric?page=full&comments=true):


I am sorry, but I really hate it when we start labeling Wright and Obama anti-American. Give me a break. That borders on censorship. "Oh, don't listen to them they are anti-American."
Its absurd. Disagree with their statements all you want, but calling them anti-American makes no sense.
Obama isn't anti-American.
A preacher who believes institutionalized racism exists (along with some wacky conspiracy theories) isn't anti-American, no matter how much you disagree with what he is saying. If you listen to Wright's entire speeches, sure he rails on America, but he is still focusing on what America can do right. What it can do to heal wounds and to learn from mistakes. If you listen to his entire speech on the chickens coming home to roost, the point isn't that America is evil and deserves more 9/11's, its that we need to take time to evaluate ourselves and see what we can do to avoid future 9/11's. He talks about uncomfortable subjects and uses extreme rhetoric, but I don't believe for a second that he is anti-American.
There are lots of things I don't like about America. There are lots of things we've done as a nation that I am not proud of. And yet, I am vehemently pro-American, and I think that is true for a lot of people in our country.
I'm glad that this issue came up so people can discuss things like whether institutionalized racism still exists in our country and people can disagree with Wright (as many eloquently have here). That sparks important conversations, but labeling him anti-American tends to silence any meaningful discussion.

BucEyedPea
03-26-2008, 04:12 PM
I saw this over at Lew's:

Writes Jerri Ward: "Everytime I see Jeremiah Wright's name, I think of Jeremiah the Prophet, who also gave his country a good tongue-lashing and was imprisoned for being 'unpatriotic' and correct about impending defeat by the Babylonians."

jettio
03-26-2008, 04:30 PM
Mitteeu W.,

You ought to change the thread title to "Another Tiresome Hannity-pack thread that will drop down the board like a lead ballon."


Mitteeu W.,

I would be in favor of adding a sub-forum to the DC sub-forum for your Hannity-pack anti-Obama threads.

honestchiefsfan, SBK, Mitteeu W., and others just can't seem to get enough.

I think you guys ought to name your own sub-sub forum by I doubt you guys could come up with a better name than:

"Punch Bowl Turds"

ClevelandBronco
03-26-2008, 04:34 PM
I saw this over at Lew's:

Writes Jerri Ward: "Everytime I see Jeremiah Wright's name, I think of Jeremiah the Prophet, who also gave his country a good tongue-lashing and was imprisoned for being 'unpatriotic' and correct about impending defeat by the Babylonians."

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy if Obama becomes president. Some prophet.

Sully
03-26-2008, 05:13 PM
I am sorry, but I really hate it when we start labeling Wright and Obama anti-American. Give me a break. That borders on censorship. "Oh, don't listen to them they are anti-American."
Its absurd. Disagree with their statements all you want, but calling them anti-American makes no sense.
Obama isn't anti-American.
A preacher who believes institutionalized racism exists (along with some wacky conspiracy theories) isn't anti-American, no matter how much you disagree with what he is saying. If you listen to Wright's entire speeches, sure he rails on America, but he is still focusing on what America can do right. As well as what those in his congregation can do to better themselves, and pull themselves up from the problems, without asking for the government's help. What it can do to heal wounds and to learn from mistakes. If you listen to his entire speech on the chickens coming home to roost, the point isn't that America is evil and deserves more 9/11's, its that we need to take time to evaluate ourselves and see what we can do to avoid future 9/11's. He talks about uncomfortable subjects and uses extreme rhetoric, but I don't believe for a second that he is anti-American.
There are lots of things I don't like about America. There are lots of things we've done as a nation that I am not proud of. And yet, I am vehemently pro-American, and I think that is true for a lot of people in our country.
I'm glad that this issue came up so people can discuss things like whether institutionalized racism still exists in our country and people can disagree with Wright (as many eloquently have here). That sparks important conversations, but labeling him anti-American tends to silence any meaningful discussion.

Great post. I added a bit, but otherwise I agree.

Logical
03-26-2008, 05:34 PM
The words he used are real and offensive, just like the other garbage - how on Earth can it be spun any other way?
I don't know I found nothing said offensive, suprising sure. I guess I am not easily offended by words.

Now I find the US wasting 100s of billions a year in Iraq offensive. I find the US spending trillions beyond what we are bringing in as taxes offensive. I find the idea that we would ban gay people from marriage offensive.

Yes I can find many things that are offensive, but not worse and phrases, especially those taken out of the context of the complete sermon and away from the life experience of the speaker.

Taco John
03-26-2008, 05:35 PM
link (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200803/POL20080326a.html)

Here's a fun game idea. Imagine the context that could make this quote seem reasonable. I'm drawing a blank.

Hmmm... He sounds like a conservative. What's the problem here?

The government most certainly controls too much.

What I don't get is why this matters.

SBK
03-26-2008, 06:43 PM
Mitteeu W.,

I would be in favor of adding a sub-forum to the DC sub-forum for your Hannity-pack anti-Obama threads.

honestchiefsfan, SBK, Mitteeu W., and others just can't seem to get enough.

I think you guys ought to name your own sub-sub forum by I doubt you guys could come up with a better name than:

"Punch Bowl Turds"

Nah, we'd need something Obama inspired.

How bout 'Typical White Guys'?

ClevelandBronco
03-26-2008, 06:45 PM
Nah, we'd need something Obama inspired.

How bout 'Typical White Guys'?

Sign me up.

jettio
03-26-2008, 07:33 PM
Nah, we'd need something Obama inspired.

How bout 'Typical White Guys'?

You might need a more gender neutral name so that you can fit in the poster who votes based on hair and azz-wigglin'.

When she's hot she can fill up a Punch Bowl like Gilbert Arenas raining 3's.

SBK
03-26-2008, 10:05 PM
You might need a more gender neutral name so that you can fit in the poster who votes based on hair and azz-wigglin'.

When she's hot she can fill up a Punch Bowl like Gilbert Arenas raining 3's.

:Lin:

RedDread
03-26-2008, 10:46 PM
That's it. I'm going to buy both of Obama's books tomorrow. I'm tired of these little snippets of quotes, like the ones used in the passage that patteeu quoted. The phrase "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets" could have been used in any context, but all we get is "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets".

So, I'm going to read through both books, not only because Obama's my guy and I want to support him and learn about his past, but also so every time I see a snippet or a phrase pulled from his books I can simply laugh when I see it quoted out of context.

patteeu
03-27-2008, 12:15 AM
I am sorry, but I really hate it when we start labeling Wright and Obama anti-American. Give me a break. That borders on censorship. "Oh, don't listen to them they are anti-American."
Its absurd. Disagree with their statements all you want, but calling them anti-American makes no sense.
Obama isn't anti-American.
A preacher who believes institutionalized racism exists (along with some wacky conspiracy theories) isn't anti-American, no matter how much you disagree with what he is saying. If you listen to Wright's entire speeches, sure he rails on America, but he is still focusing on what America can do right. What it can do to heal wounds and to learn from mistakes. If you listen to his entire speech on the chickens coming home to roost, the point isn't that America is evil and deserves more 9/11's, its that we need to take time to evaluate ourselves and see what we can do to avoid future 9/11's. He talks about uncomfortable subjects and uses extreme rhetoric, but I don't believe for a second that he is anti-American.
There are lots of things I don't like about America. There are lots of things we've done as a nation that I am not proud of. And yet, I am vehemently pro-American, and I think that is true for a lot of people in our country.
I'm glad that this issue came up so people can discuss things like whether institutionalized racism still exists in our country and people can disagree with Wright (as many eloquently have here). That sparks important conversations, but labeling him anti-American tends to silence any meaningful discussion.

In what I'm about to say, I'm not equating Jeremiah Wright to Osama bin Laden, but I'd point out that your defense would work for Osama too. He's told us what he thinks we need to do to improve ourselves in his eyes. He doesn't like what we are, but he'd be fine with us if we changed into what he wants us to be. Exactly where concerned criticism turns into anti-Americanism isn't clear to me, but it is clear to me that if you use the kind of extreme language and crazy-assed conspiracy talk that Wright has used, you are putting yourself at risk of being considered anti-American.

And just to be clear about this, I'm not the one who called Wright anti-American. I know you know this, but since you quoted me, I want that made clear. And I don't think that one aspect of Thomas Sowell's statement should overshadow what I consider to be the profound truth of the statement as a whole. The truth that Obama is a ladder climber, not unlike many politicians, who has carefully sought out radical allies during the first part of his climb and who is now trying to shy away from his radical past leaving us to wonder what part of Obama is real.

patteeu
03-27-2008, 12:20 AM
That's it. I'm going to buy both of Obama's books tomorrow. I'm tired of these little snippets of quotes, like the ones used in the passage that patteeu quoted. The phrase "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets" could have been used in any context, but all we get is "Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets".

So, I'm going to read through both books, not only because Obama's my guy and I want to support him and learn about his past, but also so every time I see a snippet or a phrase pulled from his books I can simply laugh when I see it quoted out of context.

Hopefully, you'll do more than just laugh. Hopefully, you'll provide the context to show us where these snippets are actually wrong. Now that I know you're getting his books, I'll assume that if we don't hear from you that they are, in fact, accurate representations. You are hereby designated as our Obama book guy. Don't let him down.

Taco John
03-27-2008, 12:29 AM
...leaving us to wonder what part of Obama is real.


Seems like instead of trying to figure out which part of they guy you're NOT supporting is real, you should put your focus on examining which part of the candidate you ARE supporting is real.

...considering you ARE supporting John Kerry's once potential vice president and all...

Logical
03-27-2008, 12:34 AM
Seems like instead of trying to figure out which part of they guy you're NOT supporting is real, you should put your focus on examining which part of the candidate you ARE supporting is real.

...considering you ARE supporting John Kerry's once potential vice president and all...oh burn:evil:

patteeu
03-27-2008, 01:23 AM
Seems like instead of trying to figure out which part of they guy you're NOT supporting is real, you should put your focus on examining which part of the candidate you ARE supporting is real.

...considering you ARE supporting John Kerry's once potential vice president and all...

I don't really think that makes much sense. McCain may not be all that appealing, but he's not an unknown quantity.

Taco John
03-27-2008, 02:01 AM
I don't really think that makes much sense. McCain may not be all that appealing, but he's not an unknown quantity.


McCain/Feingold... McCain/Kennedy... No doubt. You know what kind of legislation McCain will sign if it crosses his desk. The same kind Barack Obama would sign.

Only McCain's doing it with a pen he supposedly got from Reagan.

Radar Chief
03-27-2008, 07:06 AM
I am sorry, but I really hate it when we start labeling Wright and Obama anti-American. Give me a break. That borders on censorship. "Oh, don't listen to them they are anti-American."

Who’s telling you not to listen to him? I’ve read most of the posts here on the topic and have yet to read that.
I actually appreciate it when kooks come straight out with their kookery. Makes it easier to point them out to our children and say, “See, see what happens when you smoke crack.” ;)

Pennywise
03-27-2008, 07:22 AM
The words he used are real and offensive, just like the other garbage - how on Earth can it be spun any other way?


It's the Moo Moo that throws everyone off.

Duck Dog
03-27-2008, 07:30 AM
Is this pastor Obamas swift boat?

Radar Chief
03-27-2008, 08:16 AM
Is this pastor Obamas swift boat?

:hmmm:

patteeu
03-27-2008, 10:05 AM
McCain/Feingold... McCain/Kennedy... No doubt. You know what kind of legislation McCain will sign if it crosses his desk. The same kind Barack Obama would sign.

Only McCain's doing it with a pen he supposedly got from Reagan.

Partially right. McCain is known for several areas where he has an unfortunate level of agreement with liberals. But there are known areas of difference too. You need go no farther than their campaign spending proposals to see a dramatic difference between McCain and the free spending Obama. We know Obama is worse, we just don't know how much worse.

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 10:10 AM
The words he used are real and offensive, just like the other garbage - how on Earth can it be spun any other way?

I'm ticked off too, and it's why I won't be voting for Reverend Wright this November.

patteeu
03-27-2008, 10:23 AM
I'm ticked off too, and it's why I won't be voting for Reverend Wright this November.

Vote for him? You may not even see him between now and November. I don't know if he's locked up in Obama's basement, buried next door on Rezko's vacant lot, on a secret mission to carry Obama's reassurances to Hamas, or hiding out from the government klansmen of the US of KKK A, but he's apparently keeping a pretty low profile.