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memyselfI
03-26-2008, 07:25 PM
and fearful and holding onto stereotypes and misconceptions.

It was just featured on Dan Abrams' show. I saw this on a RW blog earlier and decided not to post it unless it went MSM. It does go further to explain how her and HE could sit in front of Pastor Wright for 20 years.

"We don't like being pushed outside of our comfort zones. You know it right here on this campus. You know people sitting at different tables- you all living in different dorms. I was there. You're not talking to eachother, taking advantage that you're in this diverse community. Because sometimes it's easier to hold on to your own stereotypes and misconceptions. It makes you feel justified in your own ignorance... That's America. So the challenge for us is are we ready for change?"

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StcChief
03-26-2008, 07:26 PM
Mrs. Bark can KMA

Mr. Laz
03-26-2008, 07:28 PM
i know another chick close by that can KMA

ClevelandBronco
03-26-2008, 07:29 PM
Change!

dirk digler
03-26-2008, 07:43 PM
What she said was correct. 5 years ago when I was in college all the white students and all the black students would sit separately in the cafeteria or the student union.

The way I took it she is bashing on both sides saying that both blacks and whites don't really understand each other.

Just MHO. :shrug:

Sully
03-26-2008, 08:01 PM
She didn't say what the thread header said she did.
Color me surprised.

HolmeZz
03-26-2008, 08:02 PM
Meme tells people if they choose Mr. Barack they are ignorant...

StcChief
03-26-2008, 08:05 PM
i know another chick close by that can KMAagreed. or toss salad.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:08 PM
She didn't say what the thread header said she did.
Color me surprised.

Yes, she did. She said the status quo is ignorance and 'that's America' and then she asked if you are ready for change. Change being her husband.

Alphaman
03-26-2008, 08:09 PM
What she said was correct. 5 years ago when I was in college all the white students and all the black students would sit separately in the cafeteria or the student union.

The way I took it she is bashing on both sides saying that both blacks and whites don't really understand each other.

Just MHO. :shrug:

I agree. Further let's try to accurately portray what was said. She NEVER said if you don't vote for Obama you are ignorant.

Sully
03-26-2008, 08:09 PM
I agree. Further let's try to accurately portray what was said. She NEVER said if you don't vote for Obama you are ignorant.

Correct

HonestChieffan
03-26-2008, 08:10 PM
I hope she talks more and more.

Alphaman
03-26-2008, 08:14 PM
Yes, she did. She said the status quo is ignorance and 'that's America' and then she asked if you are ready for change. Change being her husband.


Wow!!! Feel free to read what you want into her statements rather than what was actually said. She was saying that holding onto our stereotypes and misconceptions because it is more comfortable than actually stepping outside of our comfort zones and finding out the real stories of people that look like us. All are guilty of it. Blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, etc..... Because we don't know about each other and our cultures, we make assumptions based on our ignorance (i.e. what we don't know). Whether we like to admit it or not, that is America. That is the status of race in this country. Are we better than we were in the 60s and 70s? Absolutely!!! Does that mean we have arrived and stereotypes and misconceptions don't exist? Absolutely Not!!!!

Logical
03-26-2008, 08:16 PM
Wow DEnise this is a new low even for you. I don't recall you ever outright lying like you did in the thread title.:rolleyes:

HonestChieffan
03-26-2008, 08:17 PM
The more she talks the greater the awareness of her white hate and her stands on may issues.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:17 PM
Wow!!! Feel free to read what you want into her statements rather than what was actually said. She was saying that holding onto our stereotypes and misconceptions because it is more comfortable than actually stepping outside of our comfort zones and finding out the real stories of people that look like us. All are guilty of it. Blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, etc..... Because we don't know about each other and our cultures, we make assumptions based on our ignorance (i.e. what we don't know). Whether we like to admit it or not, that is America. That is the status of race in this country. Are we better than we were in the 60s and 70s? Absolutely!!! Does that mean we have arrived and stereotypes and misconceptions don't exist? Absolutely Not!!!!

Yes, and she then said the way to fix it is to change...

meaning her husband.

She is implying that if we do not choose him we chose to stay the same and remain America, the ignorant.

dirk digler
03-26-2008, 08:18 PM
Yes, she did. She said the status quo is ignorance and 'that's America' and then she asked if you are ready for change. Change being her husband.

No she didn't Denise. What she said was correct as I have stated in my example. I just asked my g/f who is going to college and she says it still happens the whites stay together and the blacks stay together and they rarely mix.

The reason they don't mix is because both sides are ignorant, they don't want to try to understand either side or they are scared to get out of their comfort zone.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:18 PM
The more she talks the greater the awareness of her white hate and her stands on may issues.

If she gets in the WH she's going to make Hillary look like Mother Theresa.

stevieray
03-26-2008, 08:21 PM
There are plenty of people of different races who understand each other just fine. Have been for years..

I'm burned out on the tail wagging the dog in this country...

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:22 PM
No she didn't Denise. What she said was correct as I have stated in my example. I just asked my g/f who is going to college and she says it still happens the whites stay together and the blacks stay together and they rarely mix.

The reason they don't mix is because both sides are ignorant, they don't want to try to understand either side or they are scared to get out of their comfort zone.

No, the reason they don't mix is not because they are ignorant but because they choose to hang with people they want to be with. No one is forcing any of them to sit any place but they choose to do so.

You are focusing, conveniently, on her example of the lunchroom in this quote but I am pointing out how she is using a context larger than her example and applying it TO AMERICA THE COUNTRY...

that means she's speaking of folks sitting outside that lunchroom.

Sully
03-26-2008, 08:23 PM
Not only does memyself think Obama is talking in some FUBU secret code, she is now making up the secret code, and trying to apply it to him.

It's kinda fun to watch.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:25 PM
Not only does memyself think Obama is talking in some FUBU secret code, she is now making up the secret code, and trying to apply it to him.

It's kinda fun to watch.

No, their own words are doing the talking. It's going to make a great commercial in the fall.

Alphaman
03-26-2008, 08:26 PM
Yes, and she then said the way to fix it is to change...

meaning her husband.

She is implying that if we do not choose him we chose to stay the same and remain America, the ignorant.


As I follow these campaigns and the comments of supporters of both Clinton and Obama (McCain as well), it is statements like these that are troublesome to me. Instead of listening to/reading and digesting what the candidate actually says, too many people read what they want into to support their candidate of choice.

I don't have a problem with a person having made their decision. I have as well. But please don't twist the words of either candidate (or those affiliated) to support your choice. We are an intelligent people. Let's act like it and intelligently review what was said and not what we twist.

Sully
03-26-2008, 08:27 PM
No, their own words, plus the disenchantment I want to read into them are doing the talking. It's going to make a great commercial in the fall.

FYP

Please quit making things up. I believe you are more intelligent than this.

dirk digler
03-26-2008, 08:28 PM
No, the reason they don't mix is not because they are ignorant but because they choose to hang with people they want to be with. No one is forcing any of them to sit any place but they choose to do so.

You are focusing, conveniently, on her example of the lunchroom in this quote but I am pointing out how she is using a context larger than her example and applying it TO AMERICA THE COUNTRY...

that means she's speaking of folks sitting outside that lunchroom.

You have no clue because it happens all the time. Blacks don't sit with whites and vice versa because everyone feels out of their comfort zone or they are using their own bias not to get to know the other race. This applies to all races, the Chinese students sit with each other and don't intermingle either.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:29 PM
As I follow these campaigns and the comments of supporters of both Clinton and Obama (McCain as well), it is statements like these that are troublesome to me. Instead of listening to/reading and digesting what the candidate actually says, too many people read what they want into to support their candidate of choice.

I don't have a problem with a person having made their decision. I have as well. But please don't twist the words of either candidate (or those affiliated) to support your choice. We are an intelligent people. Let's act like it and intelligently review what was said and not what we twist.

Give me a break. The woman has made remarks like this before and we will see more of them surfacing. As we should.

dirk digler
03-26-2008, 08:29 PM
There are plenty of people of different races who understand each other just fine. Have been for years..

I'm burned out on the tail wagging the dog in this country...

No question Stevie and this is a big generalization but the truth is this still happens I have witnessed it and my g/f witness it all the time.

There are many reasons why it happens but ignorance, bias, and not feeling comfortable are top of the list

noa
03-26-2008, 08:31 PM
This is absolutely ridiculous. What she said is absolutely true. Denise, her point is EXACTLY what you said. People CHOSE freely to sit with other people like them. Why? Because its more comfortable that way. You aren't challenged to have to listen to someone else's world view or interpretation of how things are. You can stay in your cocoon with like-minded people. Anyone who has been to a college campus will notice that this is the trend. Of course, people will sit together and be friends beyond borders, but it is undeniable that there is a strong trend to stay within your own racial/ethnic group.

TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT STATEMENT. IT IS NOT AN INSULT TO AMERICA, IT IS THE TRUTH.

And besides, when she says that we need to change, she isn't saying that the change is "vote for my husband and you will no longer stay in your racial groups." Her point is that we all need to change how we behave. She said nothing about A leading to B. You are reading that into there because you are lying and you are obsessed with interpreting every statement in the worst possible light.

I'm sorry to sound so angry, but this thread really pisses me off because its such a stretch. Your whole beef with Obama is he isn't telling the truth about who he really is and he is promising things he can't deliver. If you are so confident about your position, why do you feel the need to lie in the thread starter? You could have just started this thread with her actual statement, but instead, you are using your interpretation which is fueled by your hatred for this man. Stick to the actual statement and the discussion will flow naturally.

Alphaman
03-26-2008, 08:31 PM
Give me a break. The woman has made remarks like this before and we will see more of them surfacing. As we should.

All I'm asking is that you listen intelligently, in full context rather than a 15 second sound byte, and then respond without adding things that aren't there into it.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:32 PM
You have no clue because it happens all the time. Blacks don't sit with whites and vice versa because everyone feels out of their comfort zone or they are using their own bias not to get to know the other race. This applies to all races, the Chinese students sit with each other and don't intermingle either.

And that means that America the country is ignorant? Give me a break.

Yeah, well in high school the popular kids didn't sit with the geeks or the freaks or the goths and the jocks didn't sit with the sluts...

well, they did other things with them. :doh!: Point is IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE!!!!!!

Grow up. Life is not a college lunchroom and to apply your view of race relations in America based on what you see in a college lunchroom is really rather juvenile. If that is truly what she is saying then she is a moron.

noa
03-26-2008, 08:33 PM
There are plenty of people of different races who understand each other just fine. Have been for years..

That's absolutely true, and I don't think she would disagree with you. She was talking to college kids about an experience she had that they have as well. She isn't saying that nobody in hear understands the other race. She is just saying we make it harder to understand each other when we stick to clusters of our own kind, which is an undeniable trend.

stevieray
03-26-2008, 08:33 PM
You have no clue because it happens all the time. Blacks don't sit with whites and vice versa because everyone feels out of their comfort zone or they are using their own bias not to get to know the other race. This applies to all races, the Chinese students sit with each other and don't intermingle either.

ever think they aren't getting to know each other because they don't want to? omg, that would be horrible...people that don't care or need to know everyone around them...

besides, i don't think college cafeterias are the final word on how people of color interact. you're talking about young adults..

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:34 PM
All I'm asking is that you listen intelligently, in full context rather than a 15 second sound byte, and then respond without adding things that aren't there into it.

I've seen enough of her interviews to know that Michelle Obama is a loose canon and it will be very entertaining to watch her.

StcChief
03-26-2008, 08:35 PM
she slowly but surely is buring her husband's race.....

America doesn't wanna hear her, or her approach to "race relations"

now "I'm being proud to be an American" WTF. go back to where you came from then.

America will be hear long after your are gone.

noa
03-26-2008, 08:36 PM
Grow up. Life is not a college lunchroom and to apply your view of race relations in America based on what you see in a college lunchroom is really rather juvenile. If that is truly what she is saying then she is a moron.

You've got to be kidding me. SHE WAS TALKING TO A GROUP OF COLLEGE STUDENTS ABOUT AN EXPERIENCE THEY HAVE. You know how when you speak to a group of people, you want to tailor it to them so they can relate to what you are saying. So she used a metaphor that applies to them. And if you think the entire nation is racially harmonious and that this type of behavior doesn't occur outside college, you are living on another planet. She never said that people don't cross racial borders with friendships, she just said that people tend to stick to their own kind. If you can't see the truth in that statement, your hatred blinds you even more than I thought. You are absolutely ridiculous.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

dirk digler
03-26-2008, 08:37 PM
And that means that America the country is ignorant? Give me a break.

Yeah, well in high school the popular kids didn't sit with the geeks or the freaks or the goths and the jocks didn't sit with the sluts...

well, they did other things with them. :doh!:

Grow up. Life is not a college lunchroom and to apply your view of race relations in America based on what you see in a college lunchroom is really rather juvenile. If that is truly what she is saying then she is a moron.

Part of it is. If you think this just applies to a college lunchroom you need to wake up.

IMO the closet race neutral place in America is the military. There you are forced to interact and work with each other.

Alphaman
03-26-2008, 08:38 PM
I've seen enough of her interviews to know that Michelle Obama is a loose canon and it will be very entertaining to watch her.

Exactly how many of her full interviews and speeches have you seen and heard? Tell me some of the things you've heard her say other than the sound bytes.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:39 PM
You've got to be kidding me. SHE WAS TALKING TO A GROUP OF COLLEGE STUDENTS ABOUT AN EXPERIENCE THEY HAVE. You know how when you speak to a group of people, you want to tailor it to them so they can relate to what you are saying. So she used a metaphor that applies to them. And if you think the entire nation is racially harmonious and that this type of behavior doesn't occur outside college, you are living on another planet. She never said that people don't cross racial borders with friendships, she just said that people tend to stick to their own kind. If you can't see the truth in that statement, your hatred blinds you even more than I thought. You are absolutely ridiculous.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

She said 'that is America.'

She didn't say 'that is America's college lunchrooms.' Nor did she say 'that is America _________' (enter your favorite quantifier here).

dirk digler
03-26-2008, 08:42 PM
ever think they aren't getting to know each other because they don't want to? omg, that would be horrible...people that don't care or need to know everyone around them...

besides, i don't think college cafeterias are the final word on how people of color interact. you're talking about young adults..

no question but don't you find it interesting how each race kind of stays together.

I witnessed this the other day when I went to take my mom to St Lukes hospital. I went to the cafeteria for breakfast and in one corner the Arabs were together, the Hispanics were in another part, the blacks were all together, and they were only a handful of white people.

noa
03-26-2008, 08:42 PM
ever think they aren't getting to know each other because they don't want to?

I think that's exactly her point. We don't want to get to know each other.
Again, this doesn't apply across the board, but its unbelievable that all the anti-Obamaites in this thread are trying to argue that people of their own race don't stick together for reasons of comfort and familiarity. It makes perfect sense. Of course we do. Common experiences, upbringings, worldviews, etc. And then only way we will learn another person's view of the world is to interact with them. Until we do that, we are choosing to remain in the cocoon of our own ignorance, forming our opinions based on what we read/see, not on what we gain from actually interacting with others. Again, of course plenty of Americans have friends different races and ethnicities, but her point is about general trends, and I think its absolutely true.

noa
03-26-2008, 08:45 PM
She said 'that is America.'

And....so...Americans outside college don't remain in racial/ethnic enclaves? Is that what you are saying? People are really trying to delude themselves in this thread. America is a great country. Progressive, free, fosters friendships/relationships across racial lines, etc. But her statement STILL APPLIES. Shocking that you can't understand that. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

stevieray
03-26-2008, 08:52 PM
I think that's exactly her point. We don't want to get to know each other.


And I say BS. We know each other just fine... and we have the freedom to choose not to . do you want to know everyone on this board, or just certain posters....? you can't make people do it, more than you can make your own child love you.

StcChief
03-26-2008, 08:52 PM
And....so...Americans outside college don't remain in racial/ethnic enclaves? Is that what you are saying? People are really trying to delude themselves in this thread. America is a great country. Progressive, free, fosters friendships/relationships across racial lines, etc. But her statement STILL APPLIES. Shocking that you can't understand that. :rolleyes::rolleyes:College is where it happens. I corporate America no.....

We will gather in "corporate sponsered events" but the rest of the time the DnF's stick with their own. Blacks as well.

Trying to have outside interests with them shows alot of "uncommon" background.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:55 PM
And....so...Americans outside college don't remain in racial/ethnic enclaves? Is that what you are saying? People are really trying to delude themselves in this thread. America is a great country. Progressive, free, fosters friendships/relationships across racial lines, etc. But her statement STILL APPLIES. Shocking that you can't understand that. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

No, I understand what you are saying and that there is a problem. But you cannot parcel her statement. When she applied it to AMERICA she applied it to the ENTIRE COUNTRY. I disagree with her that what she sees in that classroom is indicative of the entire country.

I also disagree with her inference that not choosing her husband and his brand of 'change' means that we choose ignorance instead.

noa
03-26-2008, 08:55 PM
And I say BS. We know each other just fine... and we have the freedom to choose not to ...ain posters? do you want to know everyone on this board, or just certain posters....you can't make people do it, more than you can make your own child love you.

I don't think she is advocating forcing people to interact with each other. But I do believe 100%, and hope you do to, that interacting with some of the posters on here you think you would dislike might actually change your opinion. Right now, my opinion of a lot of people is based on very little. To assume that I know exactly what one poster is like from reading posts is ignorance on my part, and yet I do it (and I suspect others do as well). The only way to change that is to interact. I really don't see what's the hubub about this comment. I think its perfectly reasonable. If you want to really know other people, you have to get out of your shells and interact with them (change your method of association). She isn't saying that we should be forcing people to do that, just that its the only way to accomplish that goal. And that goal, while unworthy to some, might seem like a pretty good goal to others. So I am fine with people disagreeing with her, but I detest the idea that she is saying you are ignorant and the only cure is electing Barak. That is an outright lie.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 08:57 PM
College is where it happens. I corporate America no.....

We will gather in "corporate sponsered events" but the rest of the time the DnF's stick with their own. Blacks as well.

Trying to have outside interests with them shows alot of "uncommon" background.

But that uncommon ground is not racism. Her analogy equating the two is wrong.

Alphaman
03-26-2008, 08:59 PM
I've seen enough of her interviews to know that Michelle Obama is a loose canon and it will be very entertaining to watch her.

Let's try this again....

Exactly how many of her full interviews and speeches have you seen and heard? Tell me some of the things you've heard her say other than the sound bytes.

noa
03-26-2008, 08:59 PM
No, I understand what you are saying and that there is a problem. But you cannot parcel her statement. When she applied it to AMERICA she applied it to the ENTIRE COUNTRY. I disagree with her that what she sees in that classroom is indicative of the entire country.

I also disagree with her inference that not choosing her husband and his brand of 'change' means that we choose ignorance instead.

So you understand that there is a problem, but you think its wrong for her to say that the problem exists in America? That is a silly line to draw. She isn't saying that every single person in the country is like this. It is a general observation. If you discount those, then you must discount every speech given by every politician about the state of our nation.

And again, she didn't infer anything about electing her husband. She said we need to change our ways. You are stretching things too far because you want to twist every comment into the worst possible thing. That's been your MO with Obama for a while.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 09:00 PM
I detest the idea that she is saying you are ignorant and the only cure is electing Barak. That is an outright lie.

In her interview here she said that black people were not choosing her husband because they were afraid and felt inferior and that they would 'wake up.'

The inference being if they did not choose her husband they would choose fear, to remain inferior, and stay asleep???


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Alphaman
03-26-2008, 09:00 PM
But that uncommon ground is not racism. Her analogy equating the two is wrong.

Again, let's stay true to what she said. She didn't say the uncommon ground was racism. She said it was steeped in ignorance. Ignorance is not a comfortable word, but it simply means we don't know.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 09:04 PM
So you understand that there is a problem, but you think its wrong for her to say that the problem exists in America? That is a silly line to draw. She isn't saying that every single person in the country is like this. It is a general observation. If you discount those, then you must discount every speech given by every politician about the state of our nation.

And again, she didn't infer anything about electing her husband. She said we need to change our ways. You are stretching things too far because you want to twist every comment into the worst possible thing. That's been your MO with Obama for a while.

It's a problem to paint the entire country with a stereotypical brush while she is lamenting about stereotypes. SHE made no exceptions. SHE CHOSE to apply it to the entire country.

noa
03-26-2008, 09:05 PM
Meme, I can't believe you posted that video because it completely undermines your point. You've given all the context you need to see that she is not saying what you accuse her of. She is reflecting something that was seen in the polls and was acknowledged by many people. When Obama was running in Iowa, lots of black people thought there was no chance for Obama and so they would be better off supporting Hillary. As soon as he won Iowa, things changed and they realized maybe there was a possibility. Andrew Sullivan had a great series of emails and articles about this trend after Iowa on his blog.
She is not saying that you are ignorant unless you vote for Obama. That interpretation is ridiculous, and again, fueled by your desire to twist everything into the worst possible light.

noa
03-26-2008, 09:07 PM
It's a problem to paint the entire country with a stereotypical brush while she is lamenting about stereotypes. SHE made no exceptions. SHE CHOSE to apply it to the entire country.

I love how easy it is for anti-Obama people to twist everything on its head.

If you say there is racism in America, you are a racist because you are talking about race.

If you say that stereotypes are perpetuated by our own behavior, then you are stereotyping people.

Give me a break. Of course she's painting with broad strokes. That's what politicians do. They talk about the country as a whole. EVERY POLITICAL SPEECH does this. To hold her to some other standard just reveals your drive tear down at any cost and search for hidden meanings that aren't there.

memyselfI
03-26-2008, 09:07 PM
Again, let's stay true to what she said. She didn't say the uncommon ground was racism. She said it was steeped in ignorance. Ignorance is not a comfortable word, but it simply means we don't know.

I don't agree with that assessment. I would agree with arrogance more than ignorance. I may avoid certain people not because of what I don't know about them but because of what I do...

that is an arrogant view to have but that is how I feel most people in this country are. They know enough to know they don't want to know more. That is not ignorance that is choice. It may be arrogance but it's not ignorance and it's certainly not racist because it could be applied to any one.

Alphaman
03-26-2008, 09:09 PM
[QUOTE=memyselfI;4651580]In her interview here she said that black people were not choosing her husband because they were afraid and felt inferior and that they would 'wake up.'

The inference being if they did not choose her husband they would choose fear, to remain inferior, and stay asleep???

Once again picking and choosing. If you follow the whole clip you hear about the African American flight attendant that said she wouldn't vote for Obama because she didn't think he could win BECAUSE he's black. That's the mindset she was talking about. BTW, Mrs. Obama was correct, that poll didn't hold up.

But this speaks to the ignorance that we have about each other. I would invite you to have a real conversation with a group of African American women to truly understand what Mrs. Obama is saying. That mind set does exist. African Americans ARE constantly being told, you can't do this, it's not time yet, it's not your time yet. This is said to them by not only whites Americans in authority but by African Americans at times as well. The African Americans that say this are speaking out of fear. Fear of failure, fear of being smacked down, fear of persecution that has been seen in this country's history.

noa
03-26-2008, 09:09 PM
it's certainly not racist because it could be applied to any one.

That's why she didn't say it was racist.

noa
03-26-2008, 09:10 PM
Alphaman, you mustn't speak such things. It offends our delicate sensibilities.

Alphaman
03-26-2008, 09:14 PM
I don't agree with that assessment. I would agree with arrogance more than ignorance. I may avoid certain people not because of what I don't know about them but because of what I do...

that is an arrogant view to have but that is how I feel most people in this country are. They know enough to know they don't want to know more. That is not ignorance that is choice. It may be arrogance but it's not ignorance and it's certainly not racist because it could be applied to any one.


Assuming you know "enough" is the ignorance she speaks of.

Alphaman
03-26-2008, 09:18 PM
I've seen enough of her interviews to know that Michelle Obama is a loose canon and it will be very entertaining to watch her.

Am I to assume your ignoring this question is akin to sniper fire in Bosnia...i.e you really haven't seen anything more her than a couple of sound bytes.

HolmeZz
03-26-2008, 09:18 PM
And I say BS. We know each other just fine...

Which is why Reverend Wright was some startling revelation.

Logical
03-26-2008, 09:20 PM
Yes, she did. She said the status quo is ignorance and 'that's America' and then she asked if you are ready for change. Change being her husband.
Good Lord I just saw this, how the heck did you perform the mental gymnastics to get from this to your thread header?

You would have even got a 10 from the East German judge with that maneuver.

dirk digler
03-26-2008, 09:22 PM
So you understand that there is a problem, but you think its wrong for her to say that the problem exists in America? That is a silly line to draw. She isn't saying that every single person in the country is like this. It is a general observation. If you discount those, then you must discount every speech given by every politician about the state of our nation.

And again, she didn't infer anything about electing her husband. She said we need to change our ways. You are stretching things too far because you want to twist every comment into the worst possible thing. That's been your MO with Obama for a while.

Yep. She does this with everyone or anything that she hates. I bet she is a pathetic person in real life.

In her interview here she said that black people were not choosing her husband because they were afraid and felt inferior and that they would 'wake up.'

The inference being if they did not choose her husband they would choose fear, to remain inferior, and stay asleep???

Once again picking and choosing. If you follow the whole clip you hear about the African American flight attendant that said she wouldn't vote for Obama because she didn't think he could win BECAUSE he's black. That's the mindset she was talking about. BTW, Mrs. Obama was correct, that poll didn't hold up.

But this speaks to the ignorance that we have about each other. I would invite you to have a real conversation with a group of African American women to truly understand what Mrs. Obama is saying. That mind set does exist. African Americans ARE constantly being told, you can't do this, it's not time yet, it's not your time yet. This is said to them by not only whites Americans in authority but by African Americans at times as well. The African Americans that say this are speaking out of fear. Fear of failure, fear of being smacked down, fear of persecution that has been seen in this country's history.

You are correct as well. This was common knowledge that the reason why Obama wasn't getting a majority of the black vote early on was because they didn't think he could win.

jettio
03-26-2008, 09:23 PM
We really ought to start a new sub-forum for the Hannity hyena pack and broken hearted fans of the azz-wiggling hairdo Edwards.

As predicted, they are marginalizing themselves with their dim-witted posts, but it really does deserve a separate sub-forum.

stevieray
03-26-2008, 09:29 PM
Which is why Reverend Wright was some startling revelation.

The only thing startling about Reverend Wright was him using God's house to spew USKKKA.

HolmeZz
03-26-2008, 09:35 PM
The only thing startling about Reverend Wright was him using God's house to spew USKKKA.

No, most people were startled about the theories he threw out there, none of which people would be hearing for the first time if 'we knew each other' as well as you some want to believe. Race relations are much better among younger people, but there are still major issues, many of which Obama addressed in his speech.

stevieray
03-26-2008, 09:36 PM
[QUOTE=memyselfI;4651580] Fear of failure, fear of being smacked down, fear of persecution that has been seen in this country's history.

and this applies to everyone in this country, and isn't relgated to race, or just one race...religious persecution happens on this board all the time.

mikey23545
03-26-2008, 09:38 PM
Mrs. Osama is starting to sound like a real sweetheart...

stevieray
03-26-2008, 09:39 PM
No, most people were startled about the theories he threw out there, none of which people would be hearing for the first time if 'we knew each other' as well as you some want to believe. Race relations are much better among younger people, but there are still major issues, many of which Obama addressed in his speech.

better among younger people? please, if it is "better", the only reason is because of those who came before you.

HolmeZz
03-26-2008, 10:19 PM
better among younger people? please, if it is "better", the only reason is because of those who came before you.

So you write off that it's better and then take credit for it being better. Got it.

Race relations have gotten progressively better over the years. I expect my children and their children to encounter a world even more accepting.

Mr. Kotter
03-26-2008, 10:28 PM
And on this count, she is right. :shrug:

:spock:

Logical
03-26-2008, 10:50 PM
So you write off that it's better and then take credit for it being better. Got it.

Race relations have gotten progressively better over the years. I expect my children and their children to encounter a world even more accepting.This is the most accurate statement in the thread.:clap:

patteeu
03-27-2008, 12:24 AM
I agree. Further let's try to accurately portray what was said. She NEVER said if you don't vote for Obama you are ignorant.

The way I'd characterize it is that she is challenging people who aren't ignorant in the way she described to prove it by electing the only candidate representing "change", i.e. her husband. Not much different than what memyselfi said, IMO. If you don't think she means her husband when she uses the word "change", I can see how you'd read it differently, but campaigns use words like that for a reason and Obama's campaign has made it clear what the word "change" is supposed to mean this season.

patteeu
03-27-2008, 12:44 AM
So you understand that there is a problem, but you think its wrong for her to say that the problem exists in America? That is a silly line to draw. She isn't saying that every single person in the country is like this. It is a general observation. If you discount those, then you must discount every speech given by every politician about the state of our nation.

And again, she didn't infer anything about electing her husband. She said we need to change our ways. You are stretching things too far because you want to twist every comment into the worst possible thing. That's been your MO with Obama for a while.


If she had said "we need to change our ways" I'd have been much more likely to see it like you do. Even moreso if she'd said "eventually we need to find a way to change our ways" or something like that. But instead she says "So the challenge for us is are we ready for change?" which inserts a temporal aspect into the statement suggesting that we are at some kind of crossroad now and which uses the "change" language of the Obama campaign (i.e. "change" as a noun instead of a verb). I can still see how someone prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt could read it like you do, but I think the Obama defenders take it too far when they call memyselfi's interpretation a lie.

patteeu
03-27-2008, 12:46 AM
I love how easy it is for anti-Obama people to twist everything on its head.

If you say there is racism in America, you are a racist because you are talking about race.

If you say that stereotypes are perpetuated by our own behavior, then you are stereotyping people.

Give me a break. Of course she's painting with broad strokes. That's what politicians do. They talk about the country as a whole. EVERY POLITICAL SPEECH does this. To hold her to some other standard just reveals your drive tear down at any cost and search for hidden meanings that aren't there.

Are you suggesting that you don't think her use of the word "change" was a conscious decision based on the theme of her husband's campaign? Really?

Guru
03-27-2008, 01:51 AM
I would be curious to hear WHAT led up to the remark and what came right AFTER it.

Silock
03-27-2008, 02:55 AM
In every single one of my classes in college that I've ever had, people of all races and ethnicities sit intermingled. Maybe that's just a KU thing.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 06:16 AM
The way I'd characterize it is that she is challenging people who aren't ignorant in the way she described to prove it by electing the only candidate representing "change", i.e. her husband. Not much different than what memyselfi said, IMO. If you don't think she means her husband when she uses the word "change", I can see how you'd read it differently, but campaigns use words like that for a reason and Obama's campaign has made it clear what the word "change" is supposed to mean this season.

Certainly when she said we need to change she implies voting for her husband. That's not disputed. What memyselfi said was that Mrs. Obama stated if we don't vote for her husband we are ignorant. That's the lie....er misspeak that memyselfi told.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 06:18 AM
In every single one of my classes in college that I've ever had, people of all races and ethnicities sit intermingled. Maybe that's just a KU thing.

Sitting intermingled in class is very different than the example of the cafeteria situation that Mrs. Obama spoke of. Assuming you are still at KU, take a serious observaation of your cafeteria today.

Chiefnj2
03-27-2008, 07:51 AM
I agree with her that people segregate into their own groups. That's obvious to anyone who went to school or watched OZ. I disagree that doing so is ignorant. She shouldn't have used the word ignorant. Her message, to me, was that her husband isn't the norm for what Presidential candidates usually are - wealthy white guys with good hair, and that considering and voting for a black person might be out of the norm and out of the comfort zone for some people.

Duck Dog
03-27-2008, 07:54 AM
That's almost as funny as when she introduced her husband at the DNC as 'her baby daddy'. :doh!:

Duck Dog
03-27-2008, 07:57 AM
In every single one of my classes in college that I've ever had, people of all races and ethnicities sit intermingled. Maybe that's just a KU thing.


In every military setting I've ever been in blacks hangs with blacks, hispanics hang with hispanics and whites hang with whites. I'm not saying that the races never intertwine. But I am saying that races self segregate themselves. And believe me, there is life outside of liberal Universities.

Radar Chief
03-27-2008, 08:15 AM
In every military setting I've ever been in blacks hangs with blacks, hispanics hang with hispanics and whites hang with whites. I'm not saying that the races never intertwine. But I am saying that races self segregate themselves. And believe me, there is life outside of liberal Universities.

My experience also.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 09:51 AM
I agree with her that people segregate into their own groups. That's obvious to anyone who went to school or watched OZ. I disagree that doing so is ignorant. She shouldn't have used the word ignorant. Her message, to me, was that her husband isn't the norm for what Presidential candidates usually are - wealthy white guys with good hair, and that considering and voting for a black person might be out of the norm and out of the comfort zone for some people.

I believe she said it was done out of ignorance (on all sides). Let's go back to the definition of ignorance:

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This ig·no·rance (ĭg'nər-əns) Pronunciation Key
n. The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.


The word is not as much of a derogatory term as we make it out to be. Simply put, she's saying we segregate ourselves because we are UNAWARE of what lies within people outside of our comfort zone.

A point someone made earlier is very true. Today's youth are much, much better at getting past this uninformed place and really crossing racial lines. If you look at one of the icons of culture, music, you can definitely see it. The music of the youth today has much more cross over appeal than music 30, 20, even 10 years ago.

patteeu
03-27-2008, 09:58 AM
Certainly when she said we need to change she implies voting for her husband. That's not disputed. What memyselfi said was that Mrs. Obama stated if we don't vote for her husband we are ignorant. That's the lie....er misspeak that memyselfi told.

Personally, I think it's a little harsh to call it a lie. From my pov, it's the difference between saying that

* Mrs. Obama stated that if a person doesn't vote for her husband they are ignorant (my characterization of memyselfi's statement)

versus

* Mrs. Obama stated that if a person isn't ignorant the right thing to do is vote for her husband (my personal opinion about what was said)

I see a difference between those two interpretations, but not enough of one to call the first a lie if you believe the second is more accurate. JMO

jettio
03-27-2008, 10:01 AM
Barack Obama is on his way to winning the nomination and the general because he and Michelle go places and speak from the heart to people and make sense in what they say.

It is a bad reflection of our society that people keep trying to play gotcha with snapshots that are intentionally misconstrued.

All Barack Obama and Michelle have to do is continue to go place to place and speak to the people. Those people are more informed in their vote for Obama than the hateful dimwits that keep dropping turds in the internet punch bowl.

patteeu
03-27-2008, 10:18 AM
Barack Obama is on his way to winning the nomination and the general because he and Michelle go places and speak from the heart to people and make sense in what they say.

It is a bad reflection of our society that people keep trying to play gotcha with snapshots that are intentionally misconstrued.

All Barack Obama and Michelle have to do is continue to go place to place and speak to the people. Those people are more informed in their vote for Obama than the hateful dimwits that keep dropping turds in the internet punch bowl.

All you have to do is close your eyes and click your heels...

jettio
03-27-2008, 10:26 AM
All you have to do is close your eyes and click your heels...

What is your wager?

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 10:28 AM
Personally, I think it's a little harsh to call it a lie. From my pov, it's the difference between saying that

* Mrs. Obama stated that if a person doesn't vote for her husband they are ignorant (my characterization of memyselfi's statement)

versus

* Mrs. Obama stated that if a person isn't ignorant the right thing to do is vote for her husband (my personal opinion about what was said)

I see a difference between those two interpretations, but not enough of one to call the first a lie if you believe the second is more accurate. JMO

Actually, I think both are a gross misrepresentation of what she said. She simply said that we choose to separate ourselves, in the cafeteria for example, out of ignorance (i.e. not understanding those outside our comfort zone). She went on to say we need to change.

I will agree with your argument that using the key word change is a way of saying vote for Sen. Obama. I vehemently disagree that she in anyway insinuated a person is ignorant if they don't vote for her husband, which is what both of your statements suggest.

I call memyselfi's statement a blatantly lie because it seems (and supported by her follow up statements) she intentionally twisted what Mrs. Obama said.

What I have asked memyselfi and others is to intelligently listen to the entirety what each candidate says, regardless of who your support. Too many people are taking sound bites and twisting to either support their candidate or tear down another candidate.

Memyselfi said she had heard enough interviews with Mrs. Obama to know what she meant. She has yet to quantify what full interviews or speeches she's heard from Mrs. Obama and what she remembers her saying, other than the 2 or 3 sound bites that are now popular.

vailpass
03-27-2008, 10:34 AM
Mrs. Baby Daddy in the White House, can you picture it? The mind boggles. It's hilarious how she dresses like Jackie-O in that video with the hairdo and necklace.
I can't believe Bama's handlers haven't put a leash and muzzle on her to keep her from ****ing up his show.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 10:36 AM
Mrs. Baby Daddy in the White House, can you picture it? The mind boggles. It's hilarious how she dresses like Jackie-O in that video with the hairdo and necklace.
I can't believe Bama's handlers haven't put a leash and muzzle on her to keep her from ****ing up his show.

Help me understand the big todo over the "Baby Daddy" comment.

patteeu
03-27-2008, 10:38 AM
Actually, I think both are a gross misrepresentation of what she said. She simply said that we choose to separate ourselves, in the cafeteria for example, out of ignorance (i.e. not understanding those outside our comfort zone). She went on to say we need to change.

I will agree with your argument that using the key word change is a way of saying vote for Sen. Obama. I vehemently disagree that she in anyway insinuated a person is ignorant if they don't vote for her husband, which is what both of your statements suggest.

I call memyselfi's statement a blatantly lie because it seems (and supported by her follow up statements) she intentionally twisted what Mrs. Obama said.

What I have asked memyselfi and others is to intelligently listen to the entirety what each candidate says, regardless of who your support. Too many people are taking sound bites and twisting to either support their candidate or tear down another candidate.

Memyselfi said she had heard enough interviews with Mrs. Obama to know what she meant. She has yet to quantify what full interviews or speeches she's heard from Mrs. Obama and what she remembers her saying, other than the 2 or 3 sound bites that are now popular.

You've grossly misrepresented my position in the bolded statement. (But that's OK. I know you're trying to talk this out reasonably. :) )

My position is that she says that non-ignorant people should vote for her husband, which means that people who don't vote for her husband are either ignorant or non-ignorant but doing the wrong thing by failing to vote for Obama.

vailpass
03-27-2008, 10:39 AM
Help me understand the big todo over the "Baby Daddy" comment.

If you don't get it then you don't have a problem with it. To many it is a form of speech that portrays an image very much in contradiction with the decorum and importance of the Presidential office.

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 10:41 AM
It is a form of speech that portrays an image very much in contradiction with the decorum and importance of the Presidential office.

I missed your outrage when Laura talked about George milking a male horse.

vailpass
03-27-2008, 10:41 AM
I missed your outrage when Laura talked about George milking a male horse.

I've not seen that quote. What does that have to do with this?

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 10:44 AM
If you don't get it then you don't have a problem with it. To many it is a form of speech that portrays an image very much in contradiction with the decorum and importance of the Presidential office.


I didn't see the comment. Who was she introducing her husband to? Was it a group of young people?

I firmly believe that she is intelligent enough to understand decorum and when it is appropriate to say certain things and when it isn't. To insert humor when introducing he HUSBAND as her Baby Daddy to a group of young people is fine. If she had done so introducing him to a room full of foreign dignitaries, then there would be a problem.

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 10:44 AM
I've not seen that quote. What does that have to do with this?

You have seen the quote. Here's visual proof:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4516385&postcount=400

vailpass
03-27-2008, 10:45 AM
I didn't see the comment. Who was she introducing her husband to? Was it a group of young people?

I firmly believe that she is intelligent enough to understand decorum and when it is appropriate to say certain things and when it isn't. To insert humor when introducing he HUSBAND as her Baby Daddy to a group of young people is fine. If she had done so introducing him to a room full of foreign dignitaries, then there would be a problem.

Yep. Why don't we let Holmezzzzz tell you who the audience was when she layed down that little ebonics gem, then he can tell us why it is okay to speak that way when representing the United States of America.

vailpass
03-27-2008, 10:46 AM
You have seen the quote. Here's visual proof:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4516385&postcount=400

Don't ever deign to tell me what I have and have not seen.

So tell me, do you feel it is proper to speak in ebonics when representing the Presidential office? Yes or no?

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 10:48 AM
I didn't see the comment. Who was she introducing her husband to? Was it a group of young people?

I firmly believe that she is intelligent enough to understand decorum and when it is appropriate to say certain things and when it isn't. To insert humor when introducing he HUSBAND as her Baby Daddy to a group of young people is fine. If she had done so introducing him to a room full of foreign dignitaries, then there would be a problem.

It was a joke. The joke was just too black for vailpass's taste.

Radar Chief
03-27-2008, 10:49 AM
Help me understand the big todo over the "Baby Daddy" comment.

Vailpass can speak for himself but to me it’s just a really strange way of referring to your husband. “Baby Daddy” typically refers to a male person a female had a baby with but isn’t necessarily living with or married too.
Referring to a, supposedly, happily married husband like that is just really strange.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 10:49 AM
You've grossly misrepresented my position in the bolded statement. (But that's OK. I know you're trying to talk this out reasonably. :) )

My position is that she says that non-ignorant people should vote for her husband, which means that people who don't vote for her husband are either ignorant or non-ignorant but doing the wrong thing by failing to vote for Obama.

I just don't think there is anyway to construct what she said into those who don't vote for her husband are ignorant or non-ignorant but doing the wrong thing.

Again, she said we separate ourselves and stay within our comfort zones because we are unaware of the feelings and culture of those outside our comfort zones. She said we need to change (i.e. move outside our comfort zone). By use of the word change she does insinuate voting for her husband. She doesn't say by not doing so, we are ignorant.

vailpass
03-27-2008, 10:49 AM
It was a joke. The joke was just too black for vailpass's taste.

Dodging the question? Go on, tell him who the audience was when she dropped that line. Let him decide for himself whether it was "funny" as you say. Bullshit it was a joke, that was her being her.

Chiefnj2
03-27-2008, 10:51 AM
Don't ever deign to tell me what I have and have not seen.

So tell me, do you feel it is proper to speak in ebonics when representing the Presidential office? Yes or no?

And Bush hasn't destroyed the English language?

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 10:52 AM
Don't ever deign to tell me what I have and have not seen.

Yeah, I'll try not to catch you lying ever again.

So tell me, do you feel it is proper to speak in ebonics when representing the Presidential office? Yes or no?

It was a joke and she was not representing the Office of President. It's no different than Laura's hick joke about George, though that actually did happen while W. held the Presidency.

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 10:55 AM
Vailpass can speak for himself but to me it’s just a really strange way of referring to your husband. “Baby Daddy” typically refers to a male person a female had a baby with but isn’t necessarily living with or married too.
Referring to a, supposedly, happily married husband like that is just really strange.

It's not that strange when you realize it's a joke.

vailpass is just intent on marginalizing Michelle's intelligence.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 10:55 AM
Yep. Why don't we let Holmezzzzz tell you who the audience was when she layed down that little ebonics gem, then he can tell us why it is okay to speak that way when representing the United States of America.

Is there a reason you can't tell me who the audience was. To answer your question, yes i think it is ok even if she is the First Lady depending on the context. If she is introducing her husband to a group of young people on a college campus, then there is no problem using slang or ebonics to relate to the audience. If she is addressing the United Nations then it is not appropriate.

The ability to be flexible when addressing various audiences is a plus, not a negative.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 10:56 AM
And Bush hasn't destroyed the English language?

What a stretch. Exactly how has she destroyed the English language?

patteeu
03-27-2008, 10:57 AM
I just don't think there is anyway to construct what she said into those who don't vote for her husband are ignorant or non-ignorant but doing the wrong thing.

Again, she said we separate ourselves and stay within our comfort zones because we are unaware of the feelings and culture of those outside our comfort zones. She said we need to change (i.e. move outside our comfort zone). By use of the word change she does insinuate voting for her husband. She doesn't say by not doing so, we are ignorant.

This just goes to show how two people can see the same words and come to different conclusions about what they mean which is why I think it's overly harsh to say that memyselfi's interpretation is a lie.

And notice that you went right back to the same mischaracterization of my position at the end of your post where, again, you narrowed it to a suggestion that not voting for Obama means we are ignorant (unintentionally, I'm sure). If you agree that she's saying that ignorance exists and is a problem. And you agree that she is using code to say that people who want to help reduce this problem ought to vote for her husband. What do you think she's saying about people who choose not to vote for her husband? Do you think she thinks there is another choice that will be equally capable of achieving the type of change she's talking about? I don't. Hence, my interpretation.

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 11:02 AM
And Bush hasn't destroyed the English language?

Yup.

Merely pointing out that the quote you offered regarding GWB was at least gramatically correct as opposed to the utter affront to the english language that is "my baby daddy".

So you're upset about grammatically incorrect language in a joke from a candidate's wife?

Have you heard the guy you voted for twice speak? 'Childrens do learn?'

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 11:04 AM
What a stretch. Exactly how has she destroyed the English language?

He was pointing out the hypocrisy in vp's claim that Michelle 'destroyed the English language' by uttering baby daddy.

alanm
03-27-2008, 11:05 AM
In every military setting I've ever been in blacks hangs with blacks, hispanics hang with hispanics and whites hang with whites. I'm not saying that the races never intertwine. But I am saying that races self segregate themselves. And believe me, there is life outside of liberal Universities.
Yep.

BucEyedPea
03-27-2008, 11:08 AM
What's with that comment about Italians looking down our garlic bulb noses about?

StcChief
03-27-2008, 11:12 AM
Mrs. Baarack tells people they need to choose her husband or they are ignorant... only the ignorant ones will be voting for him

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 11:13 AM
I like the funny ethnic slurs. Garlic Nose has a special place in my vocabulary.

Any other typical garlic-nosed white people out there?

alanm
03-27-2008, 11:19 AM
What's with that comment about Italians looking down our garlic bulb noses about?
There go the labor unions. :D

patteeu
03-27-2008, 11:30 AM
What's with that comment about Italians looking down our garlic bulb noses about?

If I were Reverand Wright-like, I'd fill your head with ideas about how all black people think of italians like that.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 11:34 AM
This just goes to show how two people can see the same words and come to different conclusions about what they mean which is why I think it's overly harsh to say that memyselfi's interpretation is a lie.

And notice that you went right back to the same mischaracterization of my position at the end of your post where, again, you narrowed it to a suggestion that not voting for Obama means we are ignorant (unintentionally, I'm sure). If you agree that she's saying that ignorance exists and is a problem. And you agree that she is using code to say that people who want to help reduce this problem ought to vote for her husband. What do you think she's saying about people who choose not to vote for her husband? Do you think she thinks there is another choice that will be equally capable of achieving the type of change she's talking about? I don't. Hence, my interpretation.


I apologize if I mischaracterized your position. Maybe this is the difference. I don't at all believe that she is saying voting for her husband will heal us of our ignorances. I think she is saying we need to get beyond our ignorances. We need to change.

Sen. Obama's campaign has been about change, thus the connection with voting for him, but definitely not as a cure for our ignorances...all of us.

BucEyedPea
03-27-2008, 11:34 AM
If I were Reverand Wright-like, I'd fill your head with ideas about how all black people think of italians like that.

Why you garlic-bulbed nose wop you!

vailpass
03-27-2008, 11:37 AM
He was pointing out the hypocrisy in vp's claim that Michelle 'destroyed the English language' by uttering baby daddy.

Answer the question Homey: do you think it is acceptable for the POTUS and/or first lady to use ebonics in public?
Yes or no?

RINGLEADER
03-27-2008, 11:38 AM
and fearful and holding onto stereotypes and misconceptions.

It was just featured on Dan Abrams' show. I saw this on a RW blog earlier and decided not to post it unless it went MSM. It does go further to explain how her and HE could sit in front of Pastor Wright for 20 years.

Hmm. So the Obama's are egotistical and arrogant and willing to do or say certain things to scare, shame, or encourage people to support them.

SHOCKING!

I thought that's what all politicians were supposed to do.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 11:49 AM
Answer the question Homey: do you think it is acceptable for the POTUS and/or first lady to use ebonics in public?
Yes or no?

I'll give you my answer"

To answer your question, yes i think it is ok even if she is the First Lady depending on the context. If she is introducing her husband to a group of young people on a college campus, then there is no problem using slang or ebonics to relate to the audience. If she is addressing the United Nations then it is not appropriate.

The ability to be flexible when addressing various audiences is a plus, not a negative.

Duck Dog
03-27-2008, 12:11 PM
I'll give you my answer"

To answer your question, yes i think it is ok even if she is the First Lady depending on the context. If she is introducing her husband to a group of young people on a college campus, then there is no problem using slang or ebonics to relate to the audience. If she is addressing the United Nations then it is not appropriate.

The ability to be flexible when addressing various audiences is a plus, not a negative.

She introduced him at the F'n Democratic Nation Convention as her baby daddy. Yes, the same speech that propelled him into leftist political stardom.

Holmezz can spin it and call it a 'joke' all day long but it's still in incredible poor taste to speak ebonics for someone who is supposed to portray grace and elegance.

Radar Chief
03-27-2008, 12:13 PM
It's not that strange when you realize it's a joke.

No, even as a joke its still a really strange way to refer to your husband.

vailpass
03-27-2008, 12:15 PM
I'll give you my answer"

To answer your question, yes i think it is ok even if she is the First Lady depending on the context. If she is introducing her husband to a group of young people on a college campus, then there is no problem using slang or ebonics to relate to the audience. If she is addressing the United Nations then it is not appropriate.

The ability to be flexible when addressing various audiences is a plus, not a negative.

She used that phrase when introducing her husband nationally after he had won his Senate seat in 2004.
People like Holmezzzzz may want to spin this as a joke, etc. but Bama and his handlers know this to be a telling sign and a damaging remark.

Want proof? Try to find the clip of her saying this anywhere on the internet. It used to be easy to find.Bama's handlers have tried to scrub it from the face of the Earth. See the quote from blogspot below.

How about the time she said "ain't no black folk up in Iowa"?
If she gets in to the White House we the American people are going to be embarrassed by her on the world stage.

http://blurbsfromtheburbs.blogspot.com/2008/02/where-is-michelle-obama-baby-daddy.html

Where is The Michelle Obama "Baby Daddy" Video?
A challenge to my readers:

Remember Michelle Obama introducing her husband in 2004 as her "Baby's Daddy?"

This was back in 2004 when he won his Senate seat. Not exactly a covert operation.

So why, why I ask you is this video NOWHERE in cyberspace? I'm telling you--I've looked. So have others. It doesn't exist.

So, I know you can't find it. But the question is, why? Oh, and you can't find the transcript either. Here's where it USED to be. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0411/02/se. ...

Will somebody please explain how this can be?

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 12:23 PM
Thanks Vail. I'll agree that it is inappropriate in that setting. As to being an embarrassment if Sen. Obama is elected president? I don't think so. She'll learn (and is learning) to handle that stage. She'll get a lot of coaching for different events (just like all the other first ladies have). She's intelligent and graceful. She'll be fine.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 12:27 PM
No, even as a joke its still a really strange way to refer to your husband.

It is different, but given the context in which the phrase is normally used, it is humerous. In fact, it is a positive since it is in a marriage context rather than it's "normal" usage.

vailpass
03-27-2008, 12:28 PM
Thanks Vail. I'll agree that it is inappropriate in that setting. As to being an embarrassment if Sen. Obama is elected president? I don't think so. She'll learn (and is learning) to handle that stage. She'll get a lot of coaching for different events (just like all the other first ladies have). She's intelligent and graceful. She'll be fine.

I admire your optimism. Maybe it's due to the fact that you live in one of the coolest cities in the world.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 12:30 PM
I admire your optimism. Maybe it's due to the fact that you live in one of the coolest cities in the world.


I need to change my profile. I moved back to KC last August.

Radar Chief
03-27-2008, 12:31 PM
It is different, but given the context in which the phrase is normally used, it is humerous. In fact, it is a positive since it is in a marriage context rather than it's "normal" usage.

It’s typically used in place of “someone I was unfortunate enough to have a kid with.” Even if it's intended as a joke that’s just not funny.
I also don’t see it as all that damaging. It’s weird, and a bit stupid for a public figure or their spouse, but really it was a pretty innocuous statement.

vailpass
03-27-2008, 12:35 PM
I need to change my profile. I moved back to KC last August.

Well you still have good BBQ. Did you enjoy your time in Austin? I visit relatives there once or twice a year and absolutely love that place.

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 12:39 PM
Well you still have good BBQ. Did you enjoy your time in Austin? I visit relatives there once or twice a year and absolutely love that place.


Vail, Vail, Vail....huge misstatement. I NOW have good BBQ. Texas BBQ is a distant 3rd to KC (#1) and Memphis (#2) BBQ.

We loved Austin, except for the traffic. I wouldn't be surprised if Mr and Mrs Alphaman retired there some day.

BucEyedPea
03-27-2008, 12:52 PM
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
No, even as a joke its still a really strange way to refer to your husband.
I'll agree with ya' here. Sugar Daddy would be much better.

go bowe
03-27-2008, 01:47 PM
Meme tells people if they choose Mr. Barack they are ignorant...hooray for ignorance!

Logical
03-27-2008, 01:50 PM
Answer the question Homey: do you think it is acceptable for the POTUS and/or first lady to use ebonics in public?
Yes or no?
Yes depending on the audience. By the way the Dem convention is a very relaxed sort of affair, so her using it there would not be the same as doing it to an address of the Senate floor or if she was speaking to Queen Elizabeth.

Logical
03-27-2008, 01:54 PM
I missed your outrage when Laura talked about George milking a male horse.:eek::Lin:

go bowe
03-27-2008, 02:13 PM
Don't ever deign to tell me what I have and have not seen.

So tell me, do you feel it is proper to speak in ebonics when representing the Presidential office? Yes or no?
well, i guess your own post is trying to tell you what you have seen...

does this mean your own words are deigning what you have in fact seen, or do you disavow your earlier post, the one holmezz cited?

i think you should be deigned as much as possible by your own words...

your own post has deigned you pretty clearly...

now is this a case of poor memory or are you rejecting your previous post?

or is it a blatant lie that you hoped no one would notice?

all hail vailpass, the paragon of integrity and honesty...

hoo-ray for vailpass!

vailpass for president!

go bowe
03-27-2008, 02:23 PM
only the ignorant ones will be voting for him
[/b]hey, ignorance is fun...

i'll be voting for obama this time around since president bush isn't running again...

if that makes me ignorant, then i'll just have to be ignorant...

it won't be the first time...

a vote for hussein is a vote for ignorance...

i hope all the ignorant people in america embrace their ignorance and vote for hussein for president...

vailpass
03-27-2008, 02:34 PM
Vail, Vail, Vail....huge misstatement. I NOW have good BBQ. Texas BBQ is a distant 3rd to KC (#1) and Memphis (#2) BBQ.

We loved Austin, except for the traffic. I wouldn't be surprised if Mr and Mrs Alphaman retired there some day.

ROFL I forgot how touchy you people were about BBQ. Forgive me for implying there may be tasty Q out there that doesn't come from KC.:)

Glad to hear you like Austin, I can't imagine anyone who has been there not digging it. Great parks, schools, killer night scene, UT, UT Women, strong technology sector, bats flying out from bridges, etc. etc.

One thing though: if you think Austin has traffic stay away from Phoenix. The traffic in this hell-hole is thicker at noon than at rush hour in Austin.

vailpass
03-27-2008, 02:38 PM
well, i guess your own post is trying to tell you what you have seen...

does this mean your own words are deigning what you have in fact seen, or do you disavow your earlier post, the one holmezz cited?

i think you should be deigned as much as possible by your own words...

your own post has deigned you pretty clearly...

now is this a case of poor memory or are you rejecting your previous post?

or is it a blatant lie that you hoped no one would notice?

all hail vailpass, the paragon of integrity and honesty...

hoo-ray for vailpass!

vailpass for president!

WTF are you talking about here GB?

Alphaman
03-27-2008, 02:39 PM
[QUOTE=vailpass;4652539]ROFL I forgot how touchy you people were about BBQ. Forgive me for implying there may be tasty Q out there that doesn't come from KC.:)

QUOTE]

Hey I gave Memphis props. The pulled pork in Memphis is off the chain.

In Austin, I do miss the breakfast tacos at Rudy's (decent BBQ, great breakfast tacos).

go bowe
03-27-2008, 02:46 PM
I like the funny ethnic slurs. Garlic Nose has a special place in my vocabulary.

Any other typical garlic-nosed white people out there?does eating food with garlic in it qualify?

we eat a lot of fresh garlic in our household nearly every day, so i wanna be a garlic nose too...

as far as typical goes, i don't know that anyone would call me that, but i am pink (not white)...

does that count?

stevieray
03-27-2008, 02:47 PM
most honest men will admit that you look to the woman to see the man..at this point, the less she spoke the better off it would be for his campaign...making remarks that may be perceived as inflammatory can only cause damage...

go bowe
03-27-2008, 02:52 PM
If I were Reverand Wright-like, I'd fill your head with ideas about how all black people think of italians like that.not just black people...

every true american regards italians as a necessary evil...

without italians, would we have pizza, and spaghetti, and wonderful wines?

i think not...

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 02:54 PM
most honest men will admit that you look to the woman to see the man...

True. When I caught a glimpse of Spitzer's wife it was obvious to me that he enjoyed the company of prostitutes.

go bowe
03-27-2008, 03:09 PM
You've grossly misrepresented my position in the bolded statement. (But that's OK. I know you're trying to talk this out reasonably. :) )

My position is that she says that non-ignorant people should vote for her husband, which means that people who don't vote for her husband are either ignorant or non-ignorant but doing the wrong thing by failing to vote for Obama.well?

failing to vote for hussein would definitely be the wrong thing to do, ignorant or not...

a vote for mccain is a vote for whoever he picks as his vice-president...

i'll be surprised if he makes it to the end of his first term...

the dude is old, really old...

he's getting almost as confused as me, and that's not good for the country...

go bowe
03-27-2008, 03:20 PM
Answer the question Homey: do you think it is acceptable for the POTUS and/or first lady to use ebonics in public?
Yes or no?yes, of course...

is it a crime or something to be avoided for some reason?

last time i checked, mr. and mrs. hussein are black and ebonics is a dialect that many blacks speak...

was the president wrong to speak in spanish to crowds of spanish speaking supporters?

i just don't see what is wrong for candidates and their wives to speak their mind in whatever language they choose...

i say power to the people, homey...

power to the people...

go bowe
03-27-2008, 03:33 PM
You have seen the quote. Here's visual proof:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4516385&postcount=400


did you change the post address to something else?

the first time i looked at it, it was pretty clear from his own words that he had seen the quote...

could it have been changed by vp since i first saw it?

somebody changed it...

was it you or just vp trying to cover his ass?

i'd guess he's the one with the most to gain by altering his post in this instance...

or maby there's more than one vailpass around here...

perish the thought...

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 03:39 PM
Eh? The link and post is still the same to me.

go bowe
03-27-2008, 03:40 PM
Hmm. So the Obama's are egotistical and arrogant and willing to do or say certain things to scare, shame, or encourage people to support them.

SHOCKING!

I thought that's what all politicians were supposed to do.me too...

vailpass
03-27-2008, 03:42 PM
did you change the post address to something else?

the first time i looked at it, it was pretty clear from his own words that he had seen the quote...

could it have been changed by vp since i first saw it?

somebody changed it...

was it you or just vp trying to cover his ass?

i'd guess he's the one with the most to gain by altering his post in this instance...

or maby there's more than one vailpass around here...

perish the thought...

**** you Go Bowe for insinuating that I am A)dishonest enough to do something like that and
B)give enough of a shit what some chowderheads on the intraweb think to resort to cheating.

This is two posts on this page where you call me dishonest.
Why? My views may not be consistent with yours but I am never unclear where I stand nor am I purposefully deceitful.

If I have said something that appears to you to be inconsistent I ask that you do me the common courtesy of first confronting me and giving me the opportunity to explain myself or admit my error.

go bowe
03-27-2008, 03:54 PM
most honest men will admit that you look to the woman to see the man..at this point, the less she spoke the better off it would be for his campaign...making remarks that may be perceived as inflammatory can only cause damage...her remarks may be perceived as "inflammatory" by people who aren't going to vote for baby daddy anyway...

i'm pretty sure that there aren't many obama supporters who perceive her remarks to be inflammatory...

i know i don't...

go bowe
03-27-2008, 03:58 PM
**** you Go Bowe for insinuating that I am A)dishonest enough to do something like that and
B)give enough of a shit what some chowderheads on the intraweb think to resort to cheating.

This is two posts on this page where you call me dishonest.
Why? My views may not be consistent with yours but I am never unclear where I stand nor am I purposefully deceitful.

If I have said something that appears to you to be inconsistent I ask that you do me the common courtesy of first confronting me and giving me the opportunity to explain myself or admit my error.**** me?

and then you want me to exercise common courtesy?

i think not...

somebody changed it, and unless a mod did it, it pretty much has to be you since other people cannot edit your posts...

go bowe
03-27-2008, 04:03 PM
You have seen the quote. Here's visual proof:

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4516385&postcount=400
hey, next time quote the text of the message, not just the link...

that way it can't be edited away by someone trying to avoid being contradicted by their own words...

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 04:06 PM
Did he edit it? The post looks the same.

Sully
03-27-2008, 04:14 PM
Did he edit it? The post looks the same.

It looks the same to me.
He claimed he didn't see it, and you showed his dishonesty by showing he quoted the post in which it was in.
Pretty cut and dry.

Logical
03-27-2008, 04:23 PM
It appears I missed something, what happened that caused Vailpass to lose it. Though I would lose it as well if I was being called dishonest. What was not quoted that caused this brouhaha?

go bowe
03-27-2008, 04:24 PM
Eh? The link and post is still the same to me.could you quote the post so i can see what it says now rather than just the link?

the message i see now is very different from the one i saw when i first followed the link that you cited...

go bowe
03-27-2008, 04:26 PM
It looks the same to me.
He claimed he didn't see it, and you showed his dishonesty by showing he quoted the post in which it was in.
Pretty cut and dry.clearly you are hallucinating...

memyselfI
03-27-2008, 04:34 PM
No, even as a joke its still a really strange way to refer to your husband.

This article, not seen in the US, has a really interesting perspective on how the women in Baaarack's life have influenced him. And it might not be pretty to some...

It's two pages long so I'll just post the link.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB26Aa01.html

go bowe
03-27-2008, 04:41 PM
WTF are you talking about here GB?shit, you mean i'm supposed to know what i'm talking about?

egads, the planet is in peril...

go bowe
03-27-2008, 04:47 PM
It appears I missed something, what happened that caused Vailpass to lose it. Though I would lose it as well if I was being called dishonest. What was not quoted that caused this brouhaha?oops, never mind...

my hallucinations got the better of me...

schizophrenia is a bitch...

go bowe
03-27-2008, 07:20 PM
vp please accept my sincere apology...

confusion or dumbassery, i went off on the deep end and said some incredibly stupid things...

again i'm sorry to have upset you (and i know i'd be upset if some dumb ass said similar things to me)...

vailpass
03-27-2008, 11:46 PM
vp please accept my sincere apology...

confusion or dumbassery, i went off on the deep end and said some incredibly stupid things...

again i'm sorry to have upset you (and i know i'd be upset if some dumb ass said similar things to me)...

Thanks for manning up, we're cool. Everyone here knows you to be as far from a dumb ass as is possible. Please accept my apology for using the F-you bomb.
I know I take contradictory views and am ready to suffer the slings and arrows that are the natural result.
One thing I'm coming to realize here is that we all care about our country and have different views as to what is best for Her.

Props to Holmzes for not taking advantage of the situation when he could have. He was clean through and through.

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 11:49 PM
could you quote the post so i can see what it says now rather than just the link?

the message i see now is very different from the one i saw when i first followed the link that you cited...

.

The subject, nouns, and verbs all appear to be correctly placed and the usage is proper. Furthermore it looks to be a complete sentence with all words recognized by Webster's Standard.

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 11:52 PM
Props to Holmzes for not taking advantage of the situation when he could have. He was clean through and through.

I'd love to take credit for whatever you're giving me props for, but I have no idea what's going on. I'm lost about this edit stuff.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-27-2008, 11:53 PM
This article, not seen in the US, has a really interesting perspective on how the women in Baaarack's life have influenced him. And it might not be pretty to some...

It's two pages long so I'll just post the link.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB26Aa01.html

I don't think you ever learned the concept of argumentation in whatever school you attended. You can't just bombard your audience with partisan attacks, offer no semblance of a counterargument to them, and expect to come off as anything other than a shill.

For as much as you run your mouth on here, you'd do well to take a basic course in composition and rhetoric.

vailpass
03-28-2008, 12:01 AM
I'd love to take credit for whatever you're giving me props for, but I have no idea what's going on. I'm lost about this edit stuff.

I'm equally at a loss as far as the edit stuff. Don't care to, don't know how to.
The props came from you not backing down on your stance nor taking advantage of a situation that you could have. You and I will probably never see eye to eye but honesty is something to be respected no matter what so I send props your way.

patteeu
03-28-2008, 06:58 AM
Kumbaya

Now can we get back to dragging Obama through the mud of his associations and giving his supporters fits? :p

vailpass
03-28-2008, 01:15 PM
Kumbaya

Now can we get back to dragging Obama through the mud of his associations and giving his supporters fits? :p

Don't worry I haven't changed my views about baby daddy or his entourage of foolishness.

memyselfI
03-28-2008, 01:23 PM
Kumbaya

Now can we get back to dragging Obama through the mud of his associations and giving his supporters fits? :p

No kidding. It's really no fun when the threads get hijacked into personal squabbles or attacks. Let's focus, people. Focus on Obashing/Obacking.

Oh, that does have a familiar ring to it, doesn't it??? :spock:

Logical
03-28-2008, 02:07 PM
Answer the question Homey: do you think it is acceptable for the POTUS and/or first lady to use ebonics in public?
Yes or no?

I think you might have missed the point about Laura Bush's statement, it was not that it was not proper English but that the statement was not appropriate for a public pronouncement by a 1st lady.

vailpass
03-28-2008, 03:31 PM
I think you might have missed the point about Laura Bush's statement, it was not that it was not proper English but that the statement was not appropriate for a public pronouncement by a 1st lady.

Whatever it was it didn't make the office of POTUS look like a bad episode of Good Times.

Logical
03-28-2008, 03:52 PM
Whatever it was it didn't make the office of POTUS look like a bad episode of Good Times.
You are right more like a horrible episode of Green Acres

BucEyedPea
03-28-2008, 03:53 PM
HonestChieffan is afraid of being put on a plantation.