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View Full Version : Proffessional athletes vs. US population.


Ecto-I
08-10-2001, 02:42 PM
Are the numerous legal troubles that proffesional athletes experience unique to they're uncommon proffession or are they simply a microcosm of the United States population? In other words, would a randomly picked portion of the U.S. population experience the same problems as proffesional athletes?

I've often wondered the answer to this question and you all have probably discussed this before.

Baby Lee
08-10-2001, 02:52 PM
I vote no. A randomly picked sample of US citizens would not have the dynamic of [sometimes] childhood poverty to [usually] unimagined wealth by the early 20's. This swing has to have an effect.

ExtremeChief
08-10-2001, 03:00 PM
I believe not only athletes, but celebrities in general seem to have a higher rate of problems than the general population does. Just being a celebrity itself, with the schedules, lack of privacy, and fear of failing can cause many of the problems. And while I do understand that they are "looked at under a microscope", and thats why we all seem to know so much about their individual lives when there are problems, I still think if you were checking this by percentages, you would see a higher rate among those in the public eye.

I do think that is the price you pay for celebrity status. If you can't handle constant pressure and loss of privacy, get a different job.

California Injun
08-10-2001, 03:00 PM
Hmmm... let's compare

1- Would I have hundreds of hotties throwing themselves at my feet for a night of carnal indulgence anytime I walked into a bar?

2 - Would I be able to get a free meal anytime I strolled into a local eating establisment?

3 - Did I get excused for not attending my H.S. and college classes or get my grades altered for the sake of me getting a degree to stay in school?

4 - Have I ever gotten lost in my 10 bedroom home on more than one occasion?

5 - Did I ever have to change my oil on my Ferrari or wash my dusty Lamborghini?

This "randomly picked" fan could possibly turn to a life a crime if given these same ammenities....

:confused:

AustinChief
08-10-2001, 03:07 PM
I think this really depends on the sport...

Baseball ... yes.
Basketball...no.

basketball players are just plain freaky!

--Kyle

KCJohnny
08-10-2001, 04:36 PM
We have a sick culture.
Opulence, self-indulgence, rampant consumerism and a focus on materiality has distorted our preception of reality.

Example: we are the wealthiest nation in the world yet every election, all we hear is the economy, the economy, the economy... what about the morality?

These athletes/entertainers father multiple children out of wedlock, spend money hand over fist on self-indulgence, expect the team and it's supporters to bail them out of trouble, etc... some of these guys are just plain lost.

When I was a kid, you asked about a guy's batting average, his touchdowns or his college/hometown. Now you hear about his salary, bonus, incentives, his agent, his FA marketability, etc... BIG change.

There are many fine and even admirable athletes out there who are loyal, patriotic, strong family men, religious and community centered, and who shun all the glitz and hype (Cal Ripken Jr. and John Stockton come to mind).

KCJ
Grew up wanting to be Johnny Unitas and Len Dawson

HC_Chief
08-10-2001, 04:43 PM
<i>all we hear is the economy, the economy, the economy... what about the morality? </i>

<i>Whose</i> morality? Yours? Bush's? Clinton's? You hear about the economy because that is the government's job: taxation, distribution, spending cuts and increases... maintaining trade relations and ensuring the checks and balances are maintained. It is NOT the government's job to tell us how to live our lives. One man's morality cannot be dictated to another - that is facism.

duncan_idaho
08-10-2001, 04:49 PM
"Opulence, self-indulgence, rampant consumerism and a focus on materiality has distorted our preception of reality."

KCJ hit it on the head here... who do we have to blame for that? An ever increasingly important media that tells many people how to think... and they're too stupid to realize that they're opinions are not their own... they're the televisions.

KCJohnny
08-10-2001, 04:54 PM
The ECONOMY is a free-enterprise system the last time I checked.
LEGISLATION that is anti-marriage, anti-baby, anti-child, anti-abstinence, anti-life (bio-ethics, abortion, euthenasia, etc..) have a HUGE impact on morality, and that legislation HAS a gigantic effect on morality.

Legislation and law enforcement that affirms homosexuality, oppresses the free exercise of religion, treats violent criminals and drug traffickers as 'patients', treats people shacking up as 'common law' couples, pays teenage girls to have children out of wedlock, rewards laziness, penalizes the working poor, cannot prosecute child pornographers, and affirms rapacious abuses of capitalism is having a HUGE effect on the nation's morality.

And YOU may be uncomfortable with the source of morality encoded in legislation, but historically there IS a civil 'religion' based on the Judeo-Christian Tradition that the founding fathers endorsed, supported, lauded, and in many cases codified.

Go to the US Supreme Court and look on the wall and see Who's morality is endorsed. Check out the Lincoln Memorial while you are at it. Just for grins, look at an US Currency and see Who it we AS A NATION trust.

KCJ

ChiefGator
08-10-2001, 05:58 PM
I voted "No" because I don't think it is true!! (spoken in an excited Milhouse voice...)

Not to wax too political/moralistic, but....

legislation and law enforcement that affirms homosexuality,

Umm.. do you deny homosexuality? Don't think it exists? Some of the greatest minds and artists ever have been gay. (No need to be P.C. while you advocate a witch hunt against the ammoral 'homosexuals'... we can call it 'gay' here..) Alan Turing comes to mind. He finally killed himself since it was illegal to be gay in the U.K. The government fed him steroids and drugs to try and 'reform' him. Is that a better solution for you?

oppresses the free exercise of religion,

Nope. just plain false. The free, private exercise of religion is one of the most coveted, protected rights in America.

treats violent criminals and drug traffickers as 'patients',

Again, no. We have more people behind bars in this country than any other country. We have more behind bars per capita than almost any other country. And the vast majority of those are simple drug offenders. Or, they were before they were thrown into a common jail and deprived of their rights. That tends to change your attitude somewhat. Good thing we are winning that
'War on Drugs!'.

So, in conclusion, I don't think athletes could be considered a microcosm..

Mark :)

KCJohnny
08-10-2001, 06:12 PM
Just because something exists does not mean it should be given the sanction of law. I am not in favor of oppressing homosexuals, but I believe that homosexuality is an unnatural abuse of the sexual order. Law should be squarely on the side of marriage, children, and family and should discourage promiscuity, out-of-wedlock-births and abortion on demand. The scales are now tipped so heavily in favor of homosexuals that they have not only equal rights, but special rights based purely on sexual choice.
And a poor self-loathing artist took his own life; that is a sad tradgedy. Would you care to look at how many lives have been taken by the spread of deadly disease through promiscuous sex, most of it homosexual?

Sure! There's free exercise of religion! Everywhere but in publlic schools, where a different kind of religion is indoctrinated. And if you have children, you know what I mean.

The last time I checked, trafficking in illegal drugs was against the law. Every nickel bag you buy on the street finances organized crime, prostitution, mugging, gang warfare, illegal weapons trafficking, and many other sins, crimes and pathologies too numerous to list. Think about it.

KCJ
Seeking the arousal of consciences in the sight of God

Brock
08-10-2001, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by KCJohnny
Sure! There's free exercise of religion! Everywhere but in publlic schools, where a different kind of religion is indoctrinated. And if you have children, you know what I mean.


No, I don't know what you mean.

ChiefGator
08-10-2001, 06:38 PM
The last time I checked, trafficking in illegal drugs was against the law. Every nickel bag you buy on the street finances organized crime, prostitution, mugging, gang warfare, illegal weapons trafficking, and many other sins, crimes and pathologies too numerous to list. Think about it.

I wasn't refuting that (although I am tempted). I was merely responding to your alegation we treat drug offenders like patients. That was absolutely wrong.

And a poor self-loathing artist took his own life

Umm.. go look up Alan Turing. He was not an artist. He was a mathematician and genius. He invented the computer and was instrumental in breaking the German codes during WWII.

Would you care to look at how many lives have been taken by the spread of deadly disease through promiscuous sex, most of it homosexual?

Again, KCJ, you are dead wrong. Let me some some stats to show that mose promiscous sex is homesexual. It simply is not true.

And I agree with Brock Landers, I have no idea what you are talking about.

-Mark

California Injun
08-11-2001, 01:33 AM
"We have a sick culture. Opulence, self-indulgence, rampant consumerism, and a focus on materality has distorted our perception of reality."

FINALLY you've opened your Jazz fan eyes to see why I've advocated for Malone's retirement.

Karl's quest to be the All-Time points leader (self indulgence and a focus on materiality) had led myopic Jazz fans to "distort their perception of reality."

That is, he's past his prime and is just gravy training a check (focus on materiality). The "rampant consumerism" comes in with that "sick culture" they call Jazz fans, who buy numerous Karl Malone items thinking it will bring them "opulence".

Whew!!

Now that you've turned the corner on the NBA, my next mission is to bring your back from Marty World and into the 21st century with Vermeil's new look Chiefs!

There's less than 30 days to make this transition but I have "faith" in you to make the correct choice.:cool:

KCJohnny
08-11-2001, 08:41 AM
Sunshine:
I wasn't referring to all promiscuous sex, I was referring to DEADLY sex, LETHAL sex, such as the wanton reckless spread of the HIV. AIDS entered our population through homosexual sex and to a lesser degree, dirty needle sharing.

KCJ

Gaz
08-11-2001, 10:06 AM
Professional athletes are a reflection of the general population provided you handed the general population tons of money and absolved them of all personal responsibility [a side effect of tons of money, as you can always pay someone to be responsible for your actions].

Some of us would handle it. Some of us would not.

More money than brains is always a bad ratio.

xoxo~
Gaz
Would not mind trying to handle tons of money.