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memyselfI
03-27-2008, 08:10 PM
I am not sure why it took me so long to put this together. This Wright issue was not dealt with by Obama early on so he could have it as a means to deflect from the Muslim issue later on if needed. As long as we are focusing on his Christian pastor and his Christian church attendance we are not digging into his previous Islamic ties. :doh!:

The plan is to keep this in the news and alive long enough to win the nomination and then hope that if it surfaces in the General that Barry will have won over enough people that he can overcome the doubters. Also, it will be easier at that time to label this a 'swiftboat smear', won't it?

Apparently, outside of the US they are making the connection alot sooner than we are in the US.

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm

Is Barack Obama a Muslim wolf in Christian wool?
By Reuven Koret March 27, 2008

Bookmark to del.icio.usDigg!Digg This Story

The glib handling of criticism of his relationship with the anti-American ("God Damn America!") and anti-Israel ("a dirty word for Negroes") Reverend James Wright may have bought him a little time. But the legacy of dissimulation about his long-concealed identity is about to come crashing down around the ears of Barack Hussein Obama, courtesy of the assembled testimony of his family, friends, classmates and teachers.

The accumulated research indicates that Obama was in his childhood a devout Muslim, the son of a devout Muslim, the step-son of a devout Muslim and the grandson and namesake ("Hussein") of a devout Muslim. He was registered in school as a Muslim and demonstrated his ability to chant praise to Allah in impressive Arab-accented tones even as an adult. Just as he has not disavowed his "uncle" Jeremiah, neither has he disavowed his Muslim faith that he was born into, raised with, celebrated and never abandoned. He just covered it over with a thin veneer of his own self-styled "Christianity."

Although as an adult he would register as a Christian, and occasionally attend a Christian Church (but apparently not often enough to listen to the preaching of his pastor, or so he would claim) this was a necessary step for a man who from earliest boyhood has nurtured the precocious ambition to be President of the United States.

He was entered into the Roman Catholic, Franciscus Assisi Primary School, in Jakarta, Indonesia, on January 1, 1968, registered under the name Barry Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen whose religion was listed as Islam. Catholic schools accept non-Catholics worldwide. Non-Catholic students are typically excused from religious instruction and ceremony.

In kindergarten, Senator Obama wrote an essay titled 'I Want to Become President.'"Iis Darmawan, 63, Senator Obama's kindergarten teacher, remembers him as an exceptionally tall and curly haired child who quickly picked up the local language and had sharp math skills. He wrote an essay titled, 'I Want To Become President,' the teacher said." [AP, 1/25/07]

Three years later, in 1971, Obama enrolled in the Besuki Primary School, a government school, as Barry Soetoro, Muslim. In third grade, Senator Obama wrote an essay titled 'I Want To Be a President.' His third grade teacher: Fermina Katarina Sinaga "asked her class to write an essay titled 'My dream: What I want to be in the future.' Senator Obama wrote 'I want to be a President,' she said." [The Los Angeles Times, 3/15/07]

All Indonesian students are required to study religion at school and a young Barry Soetoro, being a Muslim, would have been required to study Islam daily in school.

He would have been taught to read and write Arabic, to recite his prayers properly, to read and recite from the Quran and to study the laws of Islam.

In his autobiography, "Dreams From My Father," Obama mentions studying the Koran and describes the public school as "a Muslim school."

"In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies."

According to Tine Hahiyary, one of Obama's teachers and the principal from 1971 through 1989, Barry actively took part in the Islamic religious lessons during his time at the school. "I remembered that he had studied "mengaji" (recitation of the Quran)" Tine said.

The author of the Laotze blog writes from Jakarta: "The actual usage of the word 'mengaji' in Indonesian and Malaysian societies means the study of learning to recite the Quran in the Arabic language rather than the native tongue. "Mengagi" is a word and a term that is accorded the highest value and status in the mindset of fundamentalist societies here in Southeast Asia. To put it quite simply, 'mengaji classes' are not something that a non practicing or so-called moderate Muslim family would ever send their child to. To put this in a Christian context, this is something above and beyond simply enrolling your child in Sunday school classes."

"The fact that Obama had attended mengaji classes is well known in Indonesia and has left many there wondering just when Obama is going to come out of the closet."

"As I've stated before, the evidence seems to quite clearly show that both Ann Dunham and her husband Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo were in fact devout Muslims themselves and they raised their son as such."

The Obama Campaign told the LA Times he wasn't a "practicing Muslim." (3/14/2007). But his official website says: "Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, And Is a Committed Christian" (11/12/2007)

That's not what his friends and classmates have said. Classmate Rony Amiris describes young Barry as enjoying playing football and marbles and of being a very devout Muslim. Amir said, "Barry was previously quite religious in Islam. We previously often asked him to the prayer room close to the house. If he was wearing a sarong, he looked funny," said Rony.

Amiris, now the manager of Bank Mandiri, Jakarta, recently said, "Barry was previously quite religious in Islam. His birth father, Barack Hussein Obama was a Muslim economist from Kenya. Before marrying Ann Dunham, Hussein Obama was married to a woman from Kenya who had seven children. All the relatives of Barry's father were very devout Muslims"

Emirsyah Satar, CEO of Garuda Indonesia, was quoted as saying, "He (Obama) was often in the prayer room wearing a 'sarong', at that time."

"He was quite religious in Islam but only after marrying Michelle, he changed his religion."
So Obama, according to his classmates and friends was a Muslim until the confluence of love and ambitious, caused him to adopt the cloak of Christianity: to marry Michelle and to run for President of the United States.

In "Dreams," Obama sheds light on his formative years and the political views of his mother, an anthropologist and Islamophile who hated America and subsequently "went native." (It was her mother -- Barry's "other" grandmother who cared for him in his druggie teenage years -- that he would describe as a "typical white person" who was, he said scoldingly, fearful of black men and prone to making stereotypical racial remarks.)

Obama Senior also had three sons by another woman who are all Muslim. Although Obama claims Senior was an atheist, Senior was buried as a Muslim.

Barack Obama's brother Roy opted for Islam over Christianity, as the Senator recounted in his book when describing his 1992 wedding. "The person who made me proudest of all," Obama wrote, "was Roy. Actually, now we call him Abongo, his Luo name, for two years ago he decided to reassert his African heritage. He converted to Islam, and has sworn off pork and tobacco and alcohol."Abongo "argues that the black man must "liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture." He urged his younger brother to embrace his African heritage.

In Kenya while he was a Senator, Obama stumped for his cousin, opposition leader Raila Odinga, the son of Senior's sister, a direct first cousin and nephew of Obama's father.
On August 29, 2007, Raila Odinga and Shiekh Abdullah Abdi, chairman of the National Muslim Leaders Forum of Kenya signed a Memorandum of Understanding in which it pledges the support of Kenyan Moslems for Raila's election. In return, as President of Kenya, Raila agrees ... within 6 months re-write the Constitution of Kenya to recognize Shariah as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Quran for Muslim declared regions [and] within one year to facilitate the establishment of a Shariah court in every Kenyan divisional headquarters -- everywhere in Kenya, not just in "Muslim declared regions" -- and to popularize Islam, the only true religion ... by ordering every primary school in Kenya in the regions to conduct daily Madrassa classes.

http://www.freedomsenemies.com/_images/ObamaOdinga.jpg ****(Photo added from a source other than this article)

In an interview with the New York Times, published on April 30th, Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's younger half sister, told the Times, "My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim."

Obama describes his new found "Christian" faith as: (1) Suspicious of dogma (2) Without any monopoly on the truth (3) Nontransferable to others (4) Infused with a big healthy dose of doubt, and (5) Indulgent of and compatible with all other religions.

On February 27th, speaking to Kristof of The New York Times, Barack Hussein Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset."

In an interview with Nicholas Kristof, published in The New York Times, Obama recited the Muslim call to prayer, the Adhan, "with a first-class [Arabic] accent."
The opening lines of the Adhan (Azaan) is the Shahada:

"Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet? "

According to Islamic scholars, reciting the Shahada, the Muslim declaration of faith, makes one a Muslim. This simple yet profound statement expresses a Muslim's complete acceptance of, and total commitment to, the message of Islam. Obama chanted it with pride and finesse.

An American Expat in Southeast Asia blog, written by an American who has lived in Indonesia for 20 years and has met with both the Taliban and al-Qaeda, contains the following:

"Barack Hussein Obama might have convinced some Americans that he is no longer a Muslim, but so far he has not convinced many in the world's most populous Muslim country who still see him as a Muslim and a crusader for Islam and world peace."

"Barack Hussein Obama's race, his staunch opposition to the war in Iraq, his sympathy to Islam and Muslims worldwide and his Muslim heritage receive the Indonesian media coverage. There is no mention of his apostasy."

"A good example of how some of the Indonesian media is reporting on Obama's religion can be found in the following."

"What I found interesting in the article was the use of the word 'mengaku' when refering to Obama's conversion from Islam to Christianity. The word 'mengaku' in Indonesian means "claimed" and as such leaves the insinuation to the native Indonesian reader being that Obama might actually still be a Muslim.

But this is how Indonesians see Obama, they don't see him as an apostate at all, they see him as a crusader for the cause of Islam."

Obama wants it both ways, has always wanted it both ways. Black and white, Indonesian and American, Muslim and Christian. He loves playing one off the other, using one to hide the other even as the traces of the truth may be assembled to reveal the whole cloth of deception and self-promotion he has been weaving so skillfully since his childhood. No wonder he is a man of change. He IS a changeling, a veritable chameleon, adapting and amending his life story to fit the circumstances.

The charm may have worked once. It still works on some. It won't work forever in the age of the Internet. The fog of ambiguity and dissimulation is dissipated by the harsh, unforgiving and scrutiny of the blogosphere and its unlimited access to historical facts and time-stamped testimony.

Many have been puzzled why Obama could claim not to be familiar with Wright's rants. It turns out the Trinity Church, like many African-American churches, happily accepts believing Muslims within its congregation. And evidently many Muslims have no problems surrounding themselves with an anti-American, anti-Israel preacher who week in and week out wins the amens of his adoring congregation.

On Feb 15/08, Usama K. Dakdok, President of The Straight Way of Grace Ministry called Obama's Church and reported the following conversation: " I then asked the person who answered what I needed to do to join. She told me that I needed to attend two Sunday School classes in a row and then I would walk the aisle. I replied, "That sounds easy. One last question please. If I am Muslim and I believe in the Prophet Mohammed, peace be unto him and I also believe in Jesus, peace be unto him, do I have to give up my Islamic faith to be a member in your church? She answered: "No, we have many Muslim members in our church."

Indeed.

Logical
03-27-2008, 08:16 PM
DEnise is getting as desperate as Hillary and it is funny to observe.

pikesome
03-27-2008, 08:22 PM
So a Muslim past is bad?

memyselfI
03-27-2008, 08:26 PM
So a Muslim past is bad?

Nope, not if you are honest about it so the American people can judge if they want that in their POTUS or not. But to omit or deceive about it because you think it's not politically correct to have it is WRONG.

It's not that he has one that bothers me rather that he's lying about it.

memyselfI
03-27-2008, 08:27 PM
DEnise is getting as desperate as Hillary and it is funny to observe.

These issues will be huge in the GE. You better come up with better rebuttals than that.

pikesome
03-27-2008, 08:27 PM
Nope, not if you are honest about it so the American people can judge if they want that in their POTUS or not. But to omit or deceive about it because it's not politically correct to have it is WRONG.

It's not that he has one that bothers me rather that he's lying about it.

Are you sure you're not a Republican?

memyselfI
03-27-2008, 08:35 PM
Are you sure you're not a Republican?

Positive. There are Dems like myself asking these questions but they are being drowned out by Obadrones. If you have Sirius radio take a listen to the Left channel. At least two of the hosts are major Obashers. They are outnumbered by Obabot hosts but still there are anti-Obama Dems out there.

mikey23545
03-27-2008, 08:46 PM
<i>In "Dreams," Obama sheds light on his formative years and<b> the political views of his mother, an anthropologist and Islamophile who hated America</b> and subsequently "went native." (It was her mother -- Barry's "other" grandmother who cared for him in his druggie teenage years -- that he would describe as a "typical white person" who was, he said scoldingly, fearful of black men and prone to making stereotypical racial remarks.)</i>

Wow, this seems to be a consistent theme of those surrounding Osama...

Ultra Peanut
03-27-2008, 08:51 PM
OBAMA SEE A LEPRECHAUN

http://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gifhttp://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gifhttp://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gif
http://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gifhttp://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gifhttp://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gif
http://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gifhttp://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gifhttp://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gif
http://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gifhttp://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gifhttp://i30.tinypic.com/zsr320.gif

YAAAAAAAAAYUUUUUHHH

SBK
03-27-2008, 08:58 PM
Obama's problem is that he's unknown. People don't know how crackpot this is, or if there's some truth to it.....

It won't be a problem when Hillary steals the nomination, but if for some reason she is unable to do that he's going to have some huge gaps of info to fill so that stuff like this is shown to either be crackpot as heck or have some truth to it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-27-2008, 09:01 PM
Jesus f*cking Christ, you are the biggest hypocrite I have ever e-encountered. Seriously, you went from "We need to support whoever the nominee is" to Sean Hannity on PCP.

Sully
03-27-2008, 09:03 PM
I'm going to bed now, and I don't know what my day will be like tomorrow.
But I sincerely hope I have the time to point out the myriad holes in this article.

SBK
03-27-2008, 09:06 PM
I'm going to bed now, and I don't know what my day will be like tomorrow.
But I sincerely hope I have the time to point out the myriad holes in this article.

You mean it's not 100% true?

Logical
03-27-2008, 09:12 PM
"Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet? "

Wow I just recited this out loud, I am now a Catholic Deist Muslim.:clap:

Logical
03-27-2008, 09:14 PM
Jesus f*cking Christ, you are the biggest hypocrite I have ever e-encountered. Seriously, you went from "We need to support whoever the nominee is" to Sean Hannity on PCP.Welcome to DEnise world. I have been dealing with her since I believe 1994 maybe 1995

whoman69
03-27-2008, 09:23 PM
Positive. There are Dems like myself asking these questions but they are being drowned out by Obadrones. If you have Sirius radio take a listen to the Left channel. At least two of the hosts are major Obashers. They are outnumbered by Obabot hosts but still there are anti-Obama Dems out there.

That's your problem you only know how to be a basher. You are one pathetic bitch. I usually don't use language like that on these forums.

You only know how to tear down. If the Democrats lose in November it will be because of the likes of you. You are the radical left that everyone always refers to when they want to dump on the Democrats. The actions of the Democratic party have been linked to the likes of you. You just have to say something stupid to try to take the other side down, but end up taking your side down even more. Get your head out and listen to yourself.

You are like the whining mirror image of Ann Coulter and those who are trying to bring McCain down because he's not "conservative" enough for their likes. You're not happy until everyone is brought down to your level. Playing these stupid political tricks is the reason why the Republicans now stand a chance in November. You just don't know when to shut up. You can't stand to cut in with your half truths and fabrications. The whole article is innuendo and scare tactics. You say you want it out there to put out the truth. Its only your truth. Admit your true reasons. The only reason you want this crap put out there is you know there is no way in hell that a Muslim would be elected President at this time.

Politics is one thing, dirty politics is another.

Logical
03-27-2008, 09:26 PM
That's your problem you only know how to be a basher. You are one pathetic bitch. I usually don't use language like that on these forums.

You only know how to tear down. If the Democrats lose in November it will be because of the likes of you. You are the radical left that everyone always refers to when they want to dump on the Democrats. The actions of the Democratic party have been linked to the likes of you. You just have to say something stupid to try to take the other side down, but end up taking your side down even more. Get your head out and listen to yourself.

You are like the whining mirror image of Ann Coulter and those who are trying to bring McCain down because he's not "conservative" enough for their likes. You're not happy until everyone is brought down to your level. Playing these stupid political tricks is the reason why the Republicans now stand a chance in November. You just don't know when to shut up. You can't stand to cut in with your half truths and fabrications. The whole article is innuendo and scare tactics. You say you want it out there to put out the truth. Its only your truth. Admit your true reasons. The only reason you want this crap put out there is you know there is no way in hell that a Muslim would be elected President at this time.

Politics is one thing, dirty politics is another.

As a new Catholic Deist Muslim I salute this post.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-27-2008, 09:27 PM
Welcome to DEnise world. I have been dealing with her since I believe 1994 maybe 1995

Had I been in your situation, I would have found a way to use the Force, and probably choked her to death across the intertubes by about 1998.

jAZ
03-27-2008, 09:28 PM
...he's lying about it.
Do you have this quote?

Logical
03-27-2008, 09:36 PM
The charm may have worked once. It still works on some. It won't work forever in the age of the Internet. The fog of ambiguity and dissimulation is dissipated by the harsh, unforgiving and scrutiny of the blogosphere and its unlimited access to historical facts and time-stamped testimony.

Well you must admit if this lame ass fabrication can make it on teh intraweb anything can.

noa
03-27-2008, 09:40 PM
Such a poorly written article. Where to begin...

Relying on foreign blogs as a credible source of who he is and what he believes.

Claiming that what some Indonesians believe about him has any real implication on who he is and what he believes.

Interviewing a friend who hasn't seen him since he was 10 years old to draw a conclusion on who he is and what he believes.

Asserting that he was so driven as a 10 year old boy, he hid his secret Muslim devotion from everyone so he could conquer our country and fool us all.

Claiming that Obama wants Kenya to be ruled by Sharia. He was clearly quoted after recent conflict in Kenya as wanting America to work hard to maintain a peaceful democracy.

Saying that Obama "chanted [the adhan] with pride and finesse." I actually read the Kristof article (which I doubt you did meme), and he said no such thing. He just said that Obama recited the opening lines with an impressive accent, but they guy lived there and went to school there at the time when it is easiest for someone to pick up a language.

I also have to note the irony in the claim that Indonesians believe Obama is secretly working for an agenda of *gasp* PEACE! As if that's something readers should be afraid of.

The thing I really don't understand meme is that you seem to be so confident that Obama is the wrong guy for the job. That's fine. I can understand your position. What I don't understand is why you have to sink to these lows to make your point. Do you really believe that Obama is a secret Muslim? Do you really want to feed into the type of xenophobia that this article is all about? Why isn't it sufficient to just point out the flaws in his policies and in his own statements? Why resort to these silly articles that are all about distortions and manipulations?

noa
03-27-2008, 09:41 PM
Wow I just recited this out loud, I am now a Catholic Deist Muslim.:clap:

ROFL

Ultra Peanut
03-27-2008, 09:45 PM
Welcome to DEnise world. I have been dealing with her since I believe 1994 maybe 1995Where the **** were you two tangling back then? Jesus Christ.

Taco John
03-27-2008, 09:47 PM
Wow. Dense sucking on Hog Farmer's dick.

Whoever thought they'd see that?

Logical
03-27-2008, 09:54 PM
Where the **** were you two tangling back then? Jesus Christ.

Star BB then on to Pigskin Park/Pen then on to here. A long and bizarre journey

HolmeZz
03-27-2008, 10:51 PM
Meme's a disgusting human being, but this topic wasn't needed to reach that conclusion.

Take your shit elsewhere, memeinkampfI. You annoy every segment of the ChiefsPlanet population.

Taco John
03-27-2008, 11:57 PM
I've never met someone so contemptably dishonest in all my life. When I read her posts I feel like maggots materialize under the skin of my arms and try to gnaw their way at my flesh towards my bones. It pains me that my religion demands that I love her. How is it possible to love someone so soulessly warped?

I'm going to have to pray on this one.

SBK
03-27-2008, 11:59 PM
I've never met someone so contemptably dishonest in all my life. When I read her posts I feel like maggots materialize under the skin of my arms and try to gnaw their way at my flesh towards my bones. It pains me that my religion demands that I love her. How is it possible to love someone so soulessly warped?

I'm going to have to pray on this one.

Drama anyone? ROFL

JohnnyV13
03-28-2008, 12:19 AM
Ok,

I'm supposed to believe that 5 year old barack obama wrote "I want to be President" while living in Indonesia? I wonder how many kindegarten students in the united states express their ambition to be head of state of a foreign nation?

jettio
03-28-2008, 02:13 AM
That's your problem you only know how to be a basher. You are one pathetic bitch. I usually don't use language like that on these forums.

You only know how to tear down. If the Democrats lose in November it will be because of the likes of you. You are the radical left that everyone always refers to when they want to dump on the Democrats. The actions of the Democratic party have been linked to the likes of you. You just have to say something stupid to try to take the other side down, but end up taking your side down even more. Get your head out and listen to yourself.

You are like the whining mirror image of Ann Coulter and those who are trying to bring McCain down because he's not "conservative" enough for their likes. You're not happy until everyone is brought down to your level. Playing these stupid political tricks is the reason why the Republicans now stand a chance in November. You just don't know when to shut up. You can't stand to cut in with your half truths and fabrications. The whole article is innuendo and scare tactics. You say you want it out there to put out the truth. Its only your truth. Admit your true reasons. The only reason you want this crap put out there is you know there is no way in hell that a Muslim would be elected President at this time.

Politics is one thing, dirty politics is another.

You should not be so quick to judge, you might do the same thing if you were middle-aged and there was a supermodel female candidate that knocked you off your feet the same way that the azz-wigglin' hairdo Edwards knocked meme off of hers.

Her judgment on QBs and politicians is intertwined with her basest instincts regards species propagation and hormone production. Rich Gannon's late bloomer success after Denise found him to be strikingly handsome even if he throws kind of funny makes it more difficult for her to accept that the azz-wigglin' hairdo did not get the job done.

memyselfI
03-28-2008, 05:40 AM
Wow, Obamessiah certainly does have some Kumbaya like supporters, doesn't he. ROFL

Nothing in that article is particularly scary though I do like this particular paragraph as it's a nice summation of what I"ve said over the past couple of months.

It makes you wonder which Obamessiah will actually be POTUS.

Obama wants it both ways, has always wanted it both ways. Black and white, Indonesian and American, Muslim and Christian. He loves playing one off the other, using one to hide the other even as the traces of the truth may be assembled to reveal the whole cloth of deception and self-promotion he has been weaving so skillfully since his childhood. No wonder he is a man of change. HE IS a changeling, a veritable chameleon, adapting and amending his life story to fit the circumstances. Ka-ching$$$$$

Duck Dog
03-28-2008, 07:41 AM
Welcome to DEnise world. I have been dealing with her since I believe 1994 maybe 1995

Yeah, in recent history up to this point you were partners in crime.

Chief Henry
03-28-2008, 08:42 AM
Was Barry a MUSLIM at one point in his life ?

patteeu
03-28-2008, 11:27 AM
Looks like Hog Farmer was right all along. :)

patteeu
03-28-2008, 11:29 AM
The whole article is innuendo and scare tactics.

Say what you want about some of the more controversial claims in the article, but this part is entirely credible and, IMO, pretty well established:

He IS a changeling, a veritable chameleon, adapting and amending his life story to fit the circumstances.

:shrug:

Logical
03-28-2008, 11:50 AM
I've never met someone so contemptably dishonest in all my life. When I read her posts I feel like maggots materialize under the skin of my arms and try to gnaw their way at my flesh towards my bones. It pains me that my religion demands that I love her. How is it possible to love someone so soulessly warped?

I'm going to have to pray on this one.

The creator is just testing you TJ.

Hydrae
03-28-2008, 11:56 AM
I guess I have to stop calling myself an agnostic now. After all, I was a strong Christian believer when I was growing up, going to church 3 times a week and Awanas on yet another night. Wearing a HUGE flourescent orange button reading "The King is coming" on my first day at a new junior high school in a new state where I didn't know anyone. Heck, I thought I was going to grow up to be a youth pastor. So obviously I am a bible thumper underneath what I show now as an adult 30 years later. :rolleyes:

memyselfI
03-28-2008, 12:36 PM
Laugh, insult, deflect all you want...

I'm merely providing you a glimpse and a preview of what is to come in the GE. Baaarack is calculating that his fight FOR Pastor Wright will not only deflect the Muslim issue but also reinforce his Christian beliefs by standing in solidarity with his Christian pastor and his Christian Church.

It's really a brilliant strategy. He'll go down in flames if necessary (or so he is making it appear) to defend the guy because he's that devoted to his Christianity and the vessel from which it was launched for him. He's calculated that by the time the Muslim issue is at the forefront of his candidacy that he will have scored points and suffered some well timed hits defending Pastor Wright and his Christian beliefs. :hmmm:

I imagine a time when Baarack looks at the camera and says something to the effect that 'would I go through all of this defending Rev. Wright if I were not truly Christian and a believer.'

I have to figure out how to bookmark this post.

noa
03-28-2008, 12:43 PM
As for Obama changing like a chameleon, I see nothing wrong with that. The guy was born in Hawaii to a white mother from Kansas and a black father from Kenya. Shortly thereafter, he moved to Indonesia with his mother and her new husband. Then back to Hawaii, where he went to a good private school. Then to Los Angeles for part of college. Then New York for the rest of college at Columbia. Then Chicago, then Harvard, then back to Chicago. Throughout all of this, he had experiences with his white relatives, his African relatives, his step-relatives, ivy league professors and inner city workers. If you didn't go through drastic changes in the course of this life and adapt to all of these new scenarios, I don't know what you would do. It seems to be a pretty reasonable thing to change elements of your personality/beliefs, even ones we find to be "core" elements when your circumstances are in such flux and you are interacting with such a wide range of people. JMO.

memyselfI
03-28-2008, 12:48 PM
As for Obama changing like a chameleon, I see nothing wrong with that. The guy was born in Hawaii to a white mother from Kansas and a black father from Kenya. Shortly thereafter, he moved to Indonesia with his mother and her new husband. Then back to Hawaii, where he went to a good private school. Then to Los Angeles for part of college. Then New York for the rest of college at Columbia. Then Chicago, then Harvard, then back to Chicago. Throughout all of this, he had experiences with his white relatives, his African relatives, his step-relatives, ivy league professors and inner city workers. If you didn't go through drastic changes in the course of this life and adapt to all of these new scenarios, I don't know what you would do. It seems to be a pretty reasonable thing to change elements of your personality/beliefs, even ones we find to be "core" elements when your circumstances are in such flux and you are interacting with such a wide range of people. JMO.

I think the point is he HAS NOT gone through drastic changes. He's PRETENDING he has so he will become electable. He's still the same radical his Momma raised, his pastor mentored, his wife married.

Again, normally not a problem for me if he were honest about who and what he is.

noa
03-28-2008, 01:25 PM
I think the point is he HAS NOT gone through drastic changes. He's PRETENDING he has so he will become electable. He's still the same radical his Momma raised, his pastor mentored, his wife married.

Again, normally not a problem for me if he were honest about who and what he is.

I have a hard time reconciling that view with his group of advisers on his campaign. What's important is how he governs. His team seems to be full of smart, reasonable people, including economists from the University of Chicago (not a liberal institution), as well as foreign policy guys who aren't radically left. IMO, he has surrounded himself by good, pragmatic advisers, so that's really what I am looking at in assessing his potential presidency.

I also keep in mind that he only will have so much control over domestic policy, because of Congress, so even if you think he is a radical, there will be checks on that. As for foreign policy, I think he has been pretty clear about his prerogatives in dealing with our allies and enemies. Doesn't seem to be too radical there (and even if you consider negotiating with Iran or North Korea radical, or withdrawing from Iraq well, at least he is up front about it, so the public knows what it is voting for).

To me, these blog posts you post and assertions about him are hinting at some kind of conspiracy, but when you look at the limitations that will be in place on him, and the people who he will have as advisers and cabinet members, I don't think he will be dangerously radical. Of course, he will be liberal, and so conservatives should be weary, but that can be said of any Dem candidate.

Also, I thought your fear about Obama was that he won't know what he is doing, and he will be criticized harshly by Repubs and the media, so he will resort to moderation and will be a Neocon. I didn't think that you feared that he would be too radical.

memyselfI
03-28-2008, 01:33 PM
I have a hard time reconciling that view with his group of advisers on his campaign. What's important is how he governs. His team seems to be full of smart, reasonable people, including economists from the University of Chicago (not a liberal institution), as well as foreign policy guys who aren't radically left. IMO, he has surrounded himself by good, pragmatic advisers, so that's really what I am looking at in assessing his potential presidency.

I also keep in mind that he only will have so much control over domestic policy, because of Congress, so even if you think he is a radical, there will be checks on that. As for foreign policy, I think he has been pretty clear about his prerogatives in dealing with our allies and enemies. Doesn't seem to be too radical there (and even if you consider negotiating with Iran or North Korea radical, or withdrawing from Iraq well, at least he is up front about it, so the public knows what it is voting for).

To me, these blog posts you post and assertions about him are hinting at some kind of conspiracy, but when you look at the limitations that will be in place on him, and the people who he will have as advisers and cabinet members, I don't think he will be dangerously radical. Of course, he will be liberal, and so conservatives should be weary, but that can be said of any Dem candidate.

Also, I thought your fear about Obama was that he won't know what he is doing, and he will be criticized harshly by Repubs and the media, so he will resort to moderation and will be a Neocon. I didn't think that you feared that he would be too radical.

I don't fear that he will be too radical unless it's to a pro Islamist agenda and that makes me nervous. His support of his cousin really makes me queasy.

What is worrisome is if he's lied to get to where he is. A large group of people will be very dismayed to learn that he's fooled them into thinking he's something he's not. If he gets into office and goes very far left and is either stopped by Congress or worse is enabled to do so then it will be a one term presidency and the Dems will be shut out of the WH for years if not decades to come.

I'd like to go left and how far isn't the issue. But, I'd like for my POTUS to be elected selling those ideals and principles and people choosing he/she with the knowledge that that is the direction he's taking the country.

This chameleon campaign he's run has me worried. Worried that he'll go far left and what I explained will happen, worried he'll be indebted to the right and we'll go to the right thereby ignoring his lifelong principles in an attempt to be popular and protect his legacy, or he'll be mired in the middle unable to go either right or left because he's crippled by the coalition of polar opposites he's built that he is unable to overcome the divisions between them thereby ensuring the status quo remains...

in every scenario I see large blocks of people disillusioned and feeling betrayed by him because he's sold himself as all things to all people. Bottom line, I see one term Jimmy Carter.

Radar Chief
03-28-2008, 01:35 PM
Star BB then on to Pigskin Park/Pen then on to here. A long and bizarre journey

:LOL: ROFL Isn't it. :thumb:

memyselfI
03-28-2008, 01:39 PM
:LOL: ROFL Isn't it. :thumb:

Indeed. I've gotten more positive rep from RWNJs in the past few weeks than I'd ever imagined in my worst nightmares. :D

Logical
03-28-2008, 01:40 PM
I don't fear that he will be too radical unless it's to a pro Islamist agenda and that makes me nervous. His support of his cousin really makes me queasy.

What is worrisome is if he's lied to get to where he is. A large group of people will be very dismayed to learn that he's fooled them into thinking he's something he's not. If he gets into office and goes very far left and is either stopped by Congress or worse is enabled to do so then it will be a one term presidency and the Dems will be shut out of the WH for years if not decades to come.

I'd like to go left and how far isn't the issue. But, I'd like for my POTUS to be elected selling those ideals and principles and people choosing he/she with the knowledge that that is the direction he's taking the country.

This chameleon campaign he's run has me worried. Worried that he'll go far left and what I explained will happen, worried he'll be indebted to the right and we'll go to the right thereby ignoring his lifelong principles in an attempt to be popular and protect his legacy, or he'll be mired in the middle unable to go either right or left because he's crippled by the coalition of polar opposites he's built that he is unable to overcome the divisions between them thereby ensuring the status quo remains...

in every scenario I see large blocks of people disillusioned and feeling betrayed by him because he's sold himself as all things to all people. Bottom line, I see one term Jimmy Carter.

Well you certainly covered all your bases, no matter how he governs you can pull up that post and tell us I told you so.:rolleyes:

memyselfI
03-28-2008, 01:43 PM
Well you certainly covered all your bases, no matter how he governs you can pull up that post and tell us I told you so.:rolleyes:

Well, you can imagine my frustration seeing this trainwreck in progress.

You cannot be all things to all people, a blank screen, an empty canvass and still hope to be effective or be successful in the long run for the party.

That is why I can say 'f*gg off' to the DEM party if he's nominated because they've decided winning this election is more important than what this election means long term. I think they are basically guaranteeing a CON majority for a long time to come if BO is elected POTUS.

And they've chosen a questionably qualified newbie with a controversial past as their nominee. Think about it, the Dems should be SLAUGHTERING the CONS right now and they are not. They are not because the two candidates we are running are WEAK. It's my contention that Baarack is the weaker of the two even if Hillary is the most hated.

a1na2
03-28-2008, 01:44 PM
Indeed. I've gotten more positive rep from RWNJs in the past few weeks than I'd ever imagined in my worst nightmares. :D

Got one from someone that forgot to click negatibve rep?

noa
03-28-2008, 01:51 PM
Well, you can imagine my frustration seeing this trainwreck in progress.

You cannot be all things to all people, a blank screen, an empty canvass and still hope to be effective or be successful in the long run for the party.

That is why I can say 'f*gg off' to the DEM party if he's nominated because they've decided winning this election is more important than what this election means long term. I think they are basically guaranteeing a CON majority for a long time to come if BO is elected POTUS.

And they've chosen a questionably qualified newbie with a controversial past as their nominee. Think about it, the Dems should be SLAUGHTERING the CONS right now and they are not. They are not because the two candidates we are running are WEAK. It's my contention that Baarack is the weaker of the two even if Hillary is the most hated.

I think this is a pretty reasonable stance for a person to hold, and the thing that just drives me crazy is why you can't stick to these arguments. Why start threads about Obama being a secret Muslim? Why start threads twisting his wifes words? I'm not trying to censor you, just saying what bothers me and what I think probably bothers some other Obama supporters, too.

I think there are a fair amount of the Obama supporters who are wiling to debate and engage on the issues, but its hard not to just get angry at you when you start such inflammatory threads. You have very real concerns and seem to do a good job expressing them in this post, but when you start those threads that verge on conspiracy theory, I think it just makes some people even more angry and makes real discussion harder. Look how long it took us in this thread to get at a reasonable discussion.

What tends to happen is you start an inflammatory thread. The Obama supporters laugh at you and ridicule you. Then the anti-Obama people make fun of the Obama supporters for defending him and call them sheep and yadayadayada. Meanwhile, nobody is talking about anything real. Just slinging around personal accusation.

jAZ
03-28-2008, 01:52 PM
I don't fear that he will be too radical unless it's to a pro Islamist agenda and that makes me nervous.
ROFL

DEnise fears Obama is a terrorist.

Radar Chief
03-28-2008, 01:54 PM
Indeed. I've gotten more positive rep from RWNJs in the past few weeks than I'd ever imagined in my worst nightmares. :D

Good for you. I care.

Logical
03-28-2008, 01:58 PM
Well, you can imagine my frustration seeing this trainwreck in progress.

You cannot be all things to all people, a blank screen, an empty canvass and still hope to be effective or be successful in the long run for the party.

That is why I can say 'f*gg off' to the DEM party if he's nominated because they've decided winning this election is more important than what this election means long term. I think they are basically guaranteeing a CON majority for a long time to come if BO is elected POTUS.

And they've chosen a questionably qualified newbie with a controversial past as their nominee. Think about it, the Dems should be SLAUGHTERING the CONS right now and they are not. They are not because the two candidates we are running are WEAK. It's my contention that Baarack is the weaker of the two even if Hillary is the most hated.


We agree on one thing, the candidates are weak (all of them not just Dems)

memyselfI
03-28-2008, 03:44 PM
ROFL

DEnise fears Obama is a terrorist.

Uh, no. A person of your intellect should have a little larger frame of reference than Islam=terrorist even if you are blinded by your 'hands off my Obama' rage.:shake:


No, I fear he's going to do what he did for his cousin and support leaders who are committed to Shariah law.

Logical
03-28-2008, 03:47 PM
Uh, no. A person of your intellect should have a little larger frame of reference than Islam=terrorist even if you are blinded by your 'hands off my Obama' rage.:shake:


No, I fear he's going to do what he did for his cousin and support leaders who are committed to Shariah law.:Poke:ROFL

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-28-2008, 03:55 PM
Say what you want about some of the more controversial claims in the article, but this part is entirely credible and, IMO, pretty well established:



:shrug:

I like you as a person, but that's just moronic.

NewChief
03-28-2008, 04:02 PM
Laugh, insult, deflect all you want...

I'm merely providing you a glimpse and a preview of what is to come in the GE. Baaarack is calculating that his fight FOR Pastor Wright will not only deflect the Muslim issue but also reinforce his Christian beliefs by standing in solidarity with his Christian pastor and his Christian Church.

It's really a brilliant strategy. He'll go down in flames if necessary (or so he is making it appear) to defend the guy because he's that devoted to his Christianity and the vessel from which it was launched for him. He's calculated that by the time the Muslim issue is at the forefront of his candidacy that he will have scored points and suffered some well timed hits defending Pastor Wright and his Christian beliefs. :hmmm:

I imagine a time when Baarack looks at the camera and says something to the effect that 'would I go through all of this defending Rev. Wright if I were not truly Christian and a believer.'

I have to figure out how to bookmark this post.

You're about 3 weeks too late to be proclaimed some sort of prophet. I said this a while ago when the controversy first broke. I confess that I didn't come up with it myself. I believe I saw it on TPM or some other site. My slant wasn't quite as calculated as yours, in that I just said it could turn into a good thing as it puts the Muslim question to rest and gives him a platform to frame himself as a Christian in the media.

Friendo
03-28-2008, 04:09 PM
maybe under normal circumstances Hillary would be justified in a down'n'dirty fight to the finish, but within the context of how Bill took the Party (and Al) down during his term, these bitches should just STFU & STFD. many of us have spent the last 15 years defending these folks against the lunatic fringe-Right, and their shot-gun attacks, only to be introduced to the very real idea that they were correct all along about the Clinton's maniacal ploitical ambitions. Obama wasn't my first choice by a long shot, but anyone who would support this woman at this point has fatally flawed logic.

memyselfI
03-28-2008, 04:46 PM
You're about 3 weeks too late to be proclaimed some sort of prophet. I said this a while ago when the controversy first broke. I confess that I didn't come up with it myself. I believe I saw it on TPM or some other site. My slant wasn't quite as calculated as yours, in that I just said it could turn into a good thing as it puts the Muslim question to rest and gives him a platform to frame himself as a Christian in the media.

Actually, I remember your post and other POVs similar to that being expressed and I agreed with you that it was beneficial to Baaarack to be seen being attacked as a Christian.

What I couldn't figure out and what I've heard the media ask numerous times is why would he allow the Pastor Wright issue to fester under the surface for such a long time without taking the bull by the horn and diffusing the issue by being preemptive and proactive about it.

But then, he rightly calculated that this issue would come out and infuriate some people and open up the race issue at which time he could use that as a means to divert the religion issue. He finally talks about the race issue an issue he'd practically tripped over himself running from early on. An issue he'd angrily accuse people of trying raise. An issue he had in his back pocket waiting to play as his trump card.

How, because no one is really arguing about what kind of Christian is he that would attend a church that believes the things he does. Instead the issue has been framed along the race issue. Which, I think his speech was his proactive way of framing how the Wright issue would be discussed. Because if we start examining his Christian beliefs we are treading too close to the religion issue again and that opens up the Muslim thing again. Rather, keep people focused on the race card and that will keep them busy for awhile.

I think the religion aspect is going to be HUGE in the GE. I think the RW is sitting on the Muslim/Liberation theology thing and will be playing that along with his 'radical' and 'anti-American' upbringing.

I said months ago when the RW is done with him he will look nothing like the Baaarack so many have come to know and love. The question will be if people will still stand by him as he gets redefined.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-28-2008, 06:27 PM
Actually, I remember your post and other POVs similar to that being expressed and I agreed with you that it was beneficial to Baaarack to be seen being attacked as a Christian.

What I couldn't figure out and what I've heard the media ask numerous times is why would he allow the Pastor Wright issue to fester under the surface for such a long time without taking the bull by the horn and diffusing the issue by being preemptive and proactive about it.

But then, he rightly calculated that this issue would come out and infuriate some people and open up the race issue at which time he could use that as a means to divert the religion issue. He finally talks about the race issue an issue he'd practically tripped over himself running from early on. An issue he'd angrily accuse people of trying raise. An issue he had in his back pocket waiting to play as his trump card.

How, because no one is really arguing about what kind of Christian is he that would attend a church that believes the things he does. Instead the issue has been framed along the race issue. Which, I think his speech was his proactive way of framing how the Wright issue would be discussed. Because if we start examining his Christian beliefs we are treading too close to the religion issue again and that opens up the Muslim thing again. Rather, keep people focused on the race card and that will keep them busy for awhile.

I think the religion aspect is going to be HUGE in the GE. I think the RW is sitting on the Muslim/Liberation theology thing and will be playing that along with his 'radical' and 'anti-American' upbringing.

I said months ago when the RW is done with him he will look nothing like the Baaarack so many have come to know and love. The question will be if people will still stand by him as he gets redefined.

There really is nothing you won't say, no low you won't stoop to, just to attempt to win an argument (which you can't win, which is even more hilarious). It's almost like you're a salesman who is trying to push a crappy car off on us, and when we have very real objections, you just start pulling obscure and invented "facts" out of your ass to keep us on the car lot.

If you had any self-awareness, you'd realize how stupid you make yourself look every time you grab a shovel and hit the "submit reply" button. Alas, you'd rather just dig yourself a deeper hole.

I'm eagerly awaiting watching you incinerate yourself once you near the core.

memyselfI
03-28-2008, 06:31 PM
I think this is a pretty reasonable stance for a person to hold, and the thing that just drives me crazy is why you can't stick to these arguments. Why start threads about Obama being a secret Muslim? Why start threads twisting his wifes words? I'm not trying to censor you, just saying what bothers me and what I think probably bothers some other Obama supporters, too.

I think there are a fair amount of the Obama supporters who are wiling to debate and engage on the issues, but its hard not to just get angry at you when you start such inflammatory threads. You have very real concerns and seem to do a good job expressing them in this post, but when you start those threads that verge on conspiracy theory, I think it just makes some people even more angry and makes real discussion harder. Look how long it took us in this thread to get at a reasonable discussion.

What tends to happen is you start an inflammatory thread. The Obama supporters laugh at you and ridicule you. Then the anti-Obama people make fun of the Obama supporters for defending him and call them sheep and yadayadayada. Meanwhile, nobody is talking about anything real. Just slinging around personal accusation.

Well thank you but arguing practical points to people who are not interested in hearing them is not much fun. At least with the 'inflammatory' thread they are moved to try to prove their Obama love by coming to his defense. :D

Seriously, every one of the points I have just made has previously been made in the 'inflammtory threads' or in the mundane ones...

alanm
03-28-2008, 08:09 PM
Was Barry a MUSLIM at one point in his life ?
I'm guessing that the way everyone here is attacking Denise the answer would be that yes Barry was a Muslim but isn't entirely truthful about it. :shrug:

Chief Henry
03-29-2008, 07:14 AM
I'm guessing that the way everyone here is attacking Denise the answer would be that yes Barry was a Muslim but isn't entirely truthful about it. :shrug:


If he was a Muslim. Why is he afraid to admit it NOW ?

Why doe she not hold up the Quran right now and start quoting from it ?

Calcountry
03-29-2008, 04:41 PM
She really needs to get a life.

go bowe
03-29-2008, 07:22 PM
Wow. Dense sucking on Hog Farmer's dick.

Whoever thought they'd see that?sucking the farmer's dick...

or the hogs' dicks?

so many to suck, so little time...

RINGLEADER
03-30-2008, 10:12 AM
If any Obama supporter found out that he was hiding a muslim past would it matter to you? Would it matter to other Democrats? Would it matter to Independents?

Obama's problem is that each little revelation (and I'm not including this in the mix) undercuts support from certain groups that, in their totality, will make it hard for him to win in November.