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irishjayhawk
03-29-2008, 11:36 AM
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/16/mccain-stumbles-on-hiv-prevention/

SOMEWHERE in NORTHERN IOWA — The unthinkable has happened. Senator John McCain met a question, while sitting with reporters on his bus as it rumbled through Iowa today, that he couldn’t – or perhaps wouldn’t – answer.


Did he support the distribution of taxpayer-subsidized condoms in Africa to fight the transmission of H.I.V.?


What followed was a long series of awkward pauses, glances up to the ceiling and the image of one of Mr. McCain’s aides, standing off to the back, urgently motioning his press secretary to come to Mr. McCain’s side.


The upshot was that Mr. McCain said he did not know this subject well, did not know his position on it, and relied on the advice of Senator Tom Coburn, a physician and Republican from Oklahoma.


His press secretary, Brian Jones, later reported that Mr. McCain had a record of voting against using government money to finance the distribution of condoms.


All this took place on the second day of the reprise of the “Straight Talk Express” bus trips that Mr. McCain made a central part of his campaign in 2000. It also comes as Mr. McCain has eagerly been trying to ease strains with social conservatives in the party who, for the most part, do not support using government money to pay for condoms.


A transcript of the encounter follows. (Weaver is John Weaver, his senior adviser, and Brian is Mr. Jones, his press secretary):
Reporter: “Should U.S. taxpayer money go to places like Africa to fund contraception to prevent AIDS?”


Mr. McCain: “Well I think it’s a combination. The guy I really respect on this is Dr. Coburn. He believes – and I was just reading the thing he wrote– that you should do what you can to encourage abstinence where there is going to be sexual activity. Where that doesn’t succeed, than he thinks that we should employ contraceptives as well. But I agree with him that the first priority is on abstinence. I look to people like Dr. Coburn. I’m not very wise on it.”


(Mr. McCain turns to take a question on Iraq, but a moment later looks back to the reporter who asked him about AIDS.)
Mr. McCain: “I haven’t thought about it. Before I give you an answer, let me think about. Let me think about it a little bit because I never got a question about it before. I don’t know if I would use taxpayers’ money for it.”


Q: “What about grants for sex education in the United States? Should they include instructions about using contraceptives? Or should it be Bush’s policy, which is just abstinence?”


Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “Ahhh. I think I support the president’s policy.”


Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”


Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”
Q: “I mean, I think you’d probably agree it probably does help stop it?”


Mr. McCain: (Laughs) “Are we on the Straight Talk express? I’m not informed enough on it. Let me find out. You know, I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was. Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception – I’m sure I’m opposed to government spending on it, I’m sure I support the president’s policies on it.”


Q: “But you would agree that condoms do stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Would you say: ‘No, we’re not going to distribute them,’ knowing that?”


Mr. McCain: (Twelve-second pause) “Get me Coburn’s thing, ask Weaver to get me Coburn’s paper that he just gave me in the last couple of days. I’ve never gotten into these issues before.”
This went on for a few more moments until a reporter from the Chicago Tribune broke in and asked Mr. McCain about the weight of a pig that he saw at the Iowa State Fair last year.

BucEyedPea
03-29-2008, 11:41 AM
Does anyone really care if McCain supported such a thing or not when running for president? I don't. I mean I do to a degree but it I were to evaluate importances this would be pretty low with our current problems.

irishjayhawk
03-29-2008, 11:42 AM
Does anyone really care if McCain supported such a thing or not when running for president? I don't. I mean I do to a degree but it I were to evaluate importances this would be pretty low with our current problems.

It's more if he doesn't know something this easy, how can we expect him to solve hard problems.

chiefforlife
03-29-2008, 12:04 PM
While the issue may not be high on our list of problems, the lack of his own thought process should be.
He has no idea where he stands or if he stands on the issue? I have to check with someone else to see what I think?
I wouldnt say it would sink a campaign but it is disturbing.

alanm
03-29-2008, 12:10 PM
I can speak for McCain. "Of all the problems we have going on in this country today. That would rank down somewhere on page 10,029. What kind of dumb muthaf*cking question is that?" Slaps reporter upside the head.%(/

HolmeZz
03-29-2008, 12:13 PM
The actual issue isn't important, but the fact he can't recall a position that his campaign says he has a record of voting against isn't a good sign.

plbrdude
03-29-2008, 12:13 PM
i would rather hear that than a complete fabrication of evading enemy fire on the front lines. "oops i mis-spoke, it really wasn't that dangerous" now that should sink a campaign. but as of yet it hasn't.

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 12:21 PM
Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”


Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

:spock: :shake: :Lin:

Can't risk pissing off the lunatic fringe by suggesting condoms might help stop the spread of AIDS.

Yes, I'm aware it's not a 100% barrier, but that wasn't the question.

As for sinking the campaign, no. Though I think it's a solid indicator showing he's spineless on this issue. It also leaves me concerned about how many other basic facts he'd deny or ignore in order to placate "social" conservatives.

plbrdude, very true.

Look at it this way, even if she wins the nomination I can already see the McCain ad playing tape of her repeated lies about the event over the actual footage. :D

Stewie
03-29-2008, 12:33 PM
Sink a campaign? Hardly. I don't expect anyone to have every answer to every question on the tip of their tongue. The HIV problem in Africa is not solved by sending pallets of condoms, no matter what the New York Times wants to shove down your throat.

Where did this writer get his degree? The simplest grammar is out of his grasp.

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 12:36 PM
Sink a campaign? Hardly. I don't expect anyone to have every answer to every question on the tip of their tongue. The HIV problem in Africa is not solved by sending pallets of condoms, no matter what the New York Times wants to shove down your throat.

Where did this writer get his degree? The simplest grammar is out of his grasp.


They didn't ask him if condoms would "solve" the AIDS crisis in Africa.

They asked him if he believed that condoms helped to prevent the spread of AIDS.

He punted.

That's pathetic, but par for the course for any politico I suppose. Especially a congresscritter.


Stewie, I must have missed the part of the article that suggested AIDS would be stopped solely by contraception. Could you point it out?

I see a comment about funding contraception to "prevent the spread of AIDS". However,the author specifically asks if McCain believes it can "help" prevent that spread, so it seems pretty clear to me the author doesn't believe AIDS would be stopped solely by contraception.

Brock
03-29-2008, 12:37 PM
What's wrong with what he said?

patteeu
03-29-2008, 12:39 PM
Absolutely. This has got to be the end of McCain. How can he possibly recover?

LMAO

chiefforlife
03-29-2008, 12:40 PM
What's wrong with what he said?

Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”


Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 12:43 PM
What's wrong with what he said?

So you don't have a problem with ignoring/claiming ignorance of the common (and factual) knowledge that condoms can help control the spread of AIDS?

Talk about low expectations. :shake:

Brock
03-29-2008, 12:43 PM
Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”


Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

I guess it's easy to read it after the fact and understand what he reporter asked, but I have to say that's a ****ed up phrasing of a question.

kstater
03-29-2008, 12:44 PM
He probably doesn't know too much about condoms. They probably weren't around when he was still able to have sex.

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 12:46 PM
I guess it's easy to read it after the fact and understand what he reporter asked, but I have to say that's a ****ed up phrasing of a question.

Yeah...."Do you think contraceptives help limit the spread of AIDS" is really a tough and complicated question.

I don't believe it was confusion. IMO, it was pretty clearly pandering to the "Condoms lead to TEH DEBBIL" crowd.

What a pathetic slate of candidates we have. :shake:

Brock
03-29-2008, 12:47 PM
I don’t know if I would use taxpayers’ money for it.”


I'm quite certain I wouldn't.

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm quite certain I wouldn't.

Nor would I, but I wouldn't be spineless enough to claim I didn't know if they helped limit the spread of AIDS or not.

Sorry, unless you've been living a cave (or denial) since the 1980's, there's no way you've not been exposed repeatedly to that fact.

Brock
03-29-2008, 12:51 PM
Anyway, to answer the question, it's not going to sink his campaign because nobody's listening to what he says right now. Secondly, aids and africa? With the issues this country is facing right now, who gives a shit about that?

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 12:53 PM
With the issues this country is facing right now, who gives a shit about that?

For better and worse, apparently both political parties do.

Where they differ is on how to address it, not so much if it should be addressed.

Brock
03-29-2008, 12:56 PM
For better and worse, apparently both political parties do.

Where they differ is on how to address it, not so much if it should be addressed.

WTF? Is this 1993? Nobody is talking about this.

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 12:59 PM
WTF? Is this 1993? Nobody is talking about this.

A simple Google search begs to differ. Just because you aren't talking about this, doesn't mean nobody is.

For example:

Saving Lives, Creating Hope

The U.S. President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief provides treatment, care and hope for millions of people around the world infected with HIV.

http://science.america.gov/science/health/hivaids.html

Perhaps you missed all the back-and-forth on the issue last summer as well, when legislation was in the works on it. Much of the debate centered around the issue of contraception and if it should be included in the efforts. (Common sense suggests that if you are going to spend money to limit the spread of AIDS, you would include contraception in the discussion. JMO.)

:shrug:

chagrin
03-29-2008, 01:09 PM
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/16/mccain-stumbles-on-hiv-prevention/

I don't know dude, shouldn't the campaign of a guy who openly supports a racist, radical freak preacher be sunk as well?

HolmeZz
03-29-2008, 01:29 PM
I don't know dude, shouldn't the campaign of a guy who openly supports a racist, radical freak preacher be sunk as well?

I think you're talking about the same guy.

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 01:31 PM
I think you're talking about the same guy.

I think he's talking about both of them. ;)

Dallas Chief
03-29-2008, 01:39 PM
Grasping at straws folks... This one deosn't have legs.

KC Tattoo
03-29-2008, 02:10 PM
:skip:McCain is just old, bet if someone would sneak up behind him and go "Boo" he would have a heart attack.

Stewie
03-29-2008, 02:15 PM
They didn't ask him if condoms would "solve" the AIDS crisis in Africa.

They asked him if he believed that condoms helped to prevent the spread of AIDS.

Stewie, I must have missed the part of the article that suggested AIDS would be stopped solely by contraception. Could you point it out?

If it doesn't solve the problem then it's not an answer. My house is under 20 feet of water! Yeah, but with my solution it will only be 15 feet. Ain't I smart?!

This is just a dumbass journalist trying to make a splash and make a politician look stupid. And just how big was that pig? It's quite apparent that his questions were THE MOST IMPORTANT because the pig question was next. Oh, well there was a question about Iraq, but dammit we need to know about condoms!

irishjayhawk
03-29-2008, 02:38 PM
If it doesn't solve the problem then it's not an answer. My house is under 20 feet of water! Yeah, but with my solution it will only be 15 feet. Ain't I smart?!

This is just a dumbass journalist trying to make a splash and make a politician look stupid. And just how big was that pig? It's quite apparent that his questions were THE MOST IMPORTANT because the pig question was next. Oh, well there was a question about Iraq, but dammit we need to know about condoms!

I don't think journalists have to make politicians look stupid. They do it too well on their own.

And I love how everyone is so willing to forgive a huge lapse of judgment and say it has nothing to do with a Presidency when it's what WASN'T said that's the bigger issue; pandering so much to the religious right that you can't even allude to the fact that condoms actually help the issue.

Wow.

Stewie
03-29-2008, 02:41 PM
I don't think journalists have to make politicians look stupid. They do it too well on their own.

And I love how everyone is so willing to forgive a huge lapse of judgment and say it has nothing to do with a Presidency when it's what WASN'T said that's the bigger issue; pandering so much to the religious right that you can't even allude to the fact that condoms actually help the issue.

Wow.

Dude! Do you know what "Giving a shot" in Africa means?

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 02:46 PM
If it doesn't solve the problem then it's not an answer. My house is under 20 feet of water! Yeah, but with my solution it will only be 15 feet. Ain't I smart?!

This is just a dumbass journalist trying to make a splash and make a politician look stupid. And just how big was that pig? It's quite apparent that his questions were THE MOST IMPORTANT because the pig question was next. Oh, well there was a question about Iraq, but dammit we need to know about condoms!

:rolleyes:

None of which changes the simple fact that dodging a simple question like "Do you believe condoms help limit the spread of AIDS" is a fu**ing spineless congresscritter answer, however you try to spin it.

Especially from the "straight-talk" express.

I'm not sure which offering is worse this year, the Dems or the GOP. Nothing but a bunch of congresscritters. :shake:

I don't think journalists have to make politicians look stupid. They do it too well on their own.


No kidding.

irishjayhawk
03-29-2008, 02:46 PM
Again, it's the little things:

The Top Ten Craziest Things John McCain Has Said While You Weren't Watching

By Cliff Schecter, AlterNet
Posted on March 29, 2008, Printed on March 29, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/story/80622/

John McCain has been saying a lot of downright nutty things lately. You've probably come across some of them, such as his admitted lack of knowledge about economics or his excitement at the prospect of remaining in Greater Mesopotamia for the next ten decades. Yet, alas, much of his craziness has been lost in the fog of the ongoing battle between Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination. So here's a recap of some nuggets of wisdom you may have missed -- from McCain's mouth to Bellevue's Ears.


10. Responding to a student who criticized his remark about our staying in Iraq for 100 years, McCain quipped (http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080229/NATION/244843635/1002), "No American argues against our military presence in Korea or Japan or Germany or Kuwait or other places, or Turkey, because America is not receiving casualties."


I guess Ron Paul isn't American. Or Dennis Kucinich. Or many others who have questioned the mindset behind keeping our troops abroad forever, which is what an empire does, not a republic. Although, perhaps more people don't argue "against our military presence" in the other spots he named, because, you know, those wars weren't based on 100 percent fabricated evidence and didn't make us less safe after they were done. Just a thought.


9. John McCain is "very proud to have Pastor John Hagee's support."


Just FYI, John Hagee makes Jeremiah Wright seem like Richard Simmons (http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1393).

Hagee has called the Catholic Church the "Great Whore," an "apostate church," the "Antichrist," and a "false cult system." And let's not even get into what he has said about Jews.


8. "In the shorter term," said McCain, "if you somehow told American businesses and families, 'Look, you're not going to experience a tax increase in 2010,' I think that's a pretty good short-term measure."


This is McCain's statement in suport of making permanent the tax cuts he voted and railed against (http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2008/03/03/mccain_s_economic_plan/index.html) in 2001 and 2003. Back then they were only a giveaway to the rich and "budget-busters." Now that we are much further along in borrowing our economy from the Chinese, and the rich have become even richer, they are a way to stimulate the economy by putting money in the hands of working Americans.


7. "This is a Catholic Voter Alert. Governor George Bush has campaigned against Senator John McCain by seeking the support of Southern fundamentalists who have expressed anti-Catholic views. Several weeks ago, Governor Bush spoke at Bob Jones University in South Carolina. Bob Jones has made strong anti-Catholic statements, including calling the Pope the anti-Christ, the Catholic Church a satanic cult! John McCain, a pro-life senator, has strongly criticized this anti-Catholic bigotry, while Governor Bush has stayed silent while seeking the support of Bob Jones University. Because of this, one Catholic pro-life congressman has switched his support from Bush to McCain, and many Michigan Catholics support John McCain for president."


This was a John McCain for president campaign robo-call (http://archive.salon.com/politics2000/feature/2000/02/22/bigot/index.html) in 2000. Today, as we pointed out, he hangs with the Rev. Hagee who thinks Catholicism is a "cult" and the "Antichrist." How romantic.


6. "Everybody says that they're against the special interests. I'm the only one the special interests don't give any money to."


Here are some examples (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/21/mccain-special-interest-money/) of Sen. McCain's epic battle with special-interest money: According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain has taken nearly $1.2 million in campaign contributions from the telephone utility and telecom service industries, more than any other senator. McCain sides with the telecom companies on retroactive immunity.
McCain is also the single largest recipient of campaign contributions from Ion Media Networks -- formerly Paxson Communication -- receiving $36,000 from the company and employees from 1997 to mid-year 2006.


5. McCain listened intently (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-trailmccain14mar14,1,6668862.story), pausing a second before delivering what could be a defining answer. "The other one will do just fine."


For what important reason was Sen. McCain interrupting an explanation to the press of his positions on Iraq and national security to take a cell phone from an aide? Why his wife needed to buy them a new barbecue grill.


4. During a Nov. 28, 2007, Republican debate Sen. McCain angrily denounced torture and offered unmitigated support of the Army field manual's restrictions, saying they "are working, and working effectively."


So naturally and quite logically, he voted against applying these same standards to the CIA (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/editorials/stories/DN-mccain_14edi.ART.State.Edition1.4685013.html). Apparently these rules won't work effectively for spooks, just the men and women on the front lines.


3. McCain, while speaking at a town hall meeting (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/mccain_i_worry_that_al_qaeda_w.php) in a suburb of Philadelphia, was asked if he had concerns that anti-American insurgents in Iraq might commit increased acts of violence in September or October with a plan in mind to tip the November election to the Democrats. "Yes, I worry about it," McCain said.


How did he figure out what the insurgents -- which his policies in Iraq have helped create -- are up to? When they attacked us on 9/11, and the warning signs were all ignored by President Bush and his then National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, he was punished with winning a second term. So, of course, militants, who follow john McCain's campaign like Republicans do the signs of the Rapture, are closely planning their events because they know the exact opposite will be the result this time.


2. Let's go back to the videotape: "I'm the only one the special interests don't give any money to."


Not only have we proven this (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/21/mccain-special-interest-money/) false, but perhaps many can't give money because they all work on his campaign. His campaign manager, Rick Davis, lobbyist. Top advisor, Charlie Black, lobbyist. The operative currently running his Senate office, Mark Buse, former lobbyist. And so it goes. Here is what one observer had to say (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4440418&page=1). "It's an interesting dichotomy. On the one hand, he's presenting himself as the crusader against special interests and yet, on the other hand, he's surrounded himself with senior advisers that are lobbyists," said Sheila Krumholz of the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan, non-profit research group focused on money in politics.


1. And finally, McCain's craziest, coolest, most unstoppable McCain Moment: The senator said, while in Jordan (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/18/a_mccain_gaffe_in_jordan.html), that it was "common knowledge and has been reported in the media that al-Qaeda is going back into Iran and receiving training and are coming back into Iraq from Iran, that's well known. And it's unfortunate." A few moments later, Sen. Joseph Lieberman, admiringly gazing at McCain until that moment, stepped up and whispered something in the presidential candidate's ear. McCain then blurted out: "I'm sorry, the Iranians are training extremists, not al-Qaeda."


Phew. Glad trusty Joe Lieberman was there to explain to the man of "experience," a man who wants to lead the free world, that Sunnis (Al Qaeda) and Shia (Iran) not only don't work together but are in direct conflict. We have only been at war there for five years, so I wouldn't expect Sen. McCain to concern himself with such trivial matters.

Stewie
03-29-2008, 02:55 PM
Again, it's the little things:

Wow! Only 10? I can come up with that many from Hillary/Obama in the past two weeks!

irishjayhawk
03-29-2008, 02:57 PM
Wow! Only 10? I can come up with that many from Hillary/Obama in the past two weeks!

Nice try.

Please, by all means, keep defending a spineless congressional slug.

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 02:57 PM
Wow! Only 10? I can come up with that many from Hillary/Obama in the past two weeks!

So we're agreed they are all three a sack of crap? Good.



Please, by all means, keep defending a spineless congressional slug.

Last time I looked, there were three of those in this election.

irishjayhawk
03-29-2008, 02:57 PM
So we're agreed they are all three a sack of crap? Good.

:clap:

Baby Lee
03-29-2008, 03:54 PM
The question was whether condoms helps stem the spread of HIV in Africa.
Wouldn't suprise me that folks who are given them in some communities over there washed them out and reused them like socks, or told the woman that possession of a condom was a governmental license for as much sex as he demanded.
AIDS is such a problem in Africa because women are trusting their husbands, while the husbands are catting around all over town, not owning up to it 'til the moles show up on their scratchy scalps.

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 04:20 PM
The question was whether condoms helps stem the spread of HIV in Africa.
Wouldn't suprise me that folks who are given them in some communities over there washed them out and reused them like socks, or told the woman that possession of a condom was a governmental license for as much sex as he demanded.
AIDS is such a problem in Africa because women are trusting their husbands, while the husbands are catting around all over town, not owning up to it 'til the moles show up on their scratchy scalps.

You are correct about the problem of AIDS in Africa.

You are incorrect about the question asked.

The reporter responded to McCain's statement about supporting Bush's policy by saying: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence."

He then asked: "Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”" No mention of "Africa" at all.

Not that it matters much. It's a simple thing to unroll a condom over a fake schlong to teach the proper usage, in Africa or the US.

McCain dodged a common-sense answer. Why?

IMO, to placate the nutjob fringe that is outraged by the notion of condoms.

Do you have anything showing the question asked was "Do you think condoms help stop the spread of HIV in Africa as you've claimed? I've googled this and the the accounts I've found all match this one. Did you find something else showing the question asked addressed Africa?

BucEyedPea
03-29-2008, 04:21 PM
I don't consider McCain not knowing the answer important at all either.
There's too many issues to know the answer to, that's why they have committees—to study one issue in depth. Not every congresscritter can answer to each and every issue off the top of his head. That's just a jack of all trades and a master of none.

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 04:29 PM
I don't consider McCain not knowing the answer important at all either.
There's too many issues to know the answer to, that's why they have committees—to study one issue in depth. Not every congresscritter can answer to each and every issue off the top of his head. That's just a jack of all trades and a master of none.

If you actually believe he didn't know the answer to that question, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

I don't buy it for a second. There is no way any reasonably informed person who has been an adult since the 1980's hasn't been exposed to that information repeatedly, unless they are living under a rock or in denial. We're not talking about a member of a faith that refuses technology and the media, or a unabomber type mountain man recluse.

He's a pandering Congresscritter, just like Obama and Clinton.

I simply don't believe he "didn't know". I feel pretty certain he punted because he didn't want to answer for fear of offending some lunatics who think condoms lead to evil. Same reason he embraces the anti-catholic/anti-semite Hagee, and is just as contemptible IMO as Obama for his embrace of Wright.

I don't think it will impact much on his candidacy, but I find a willingness to feign ignorance on something so common-knowledge concerning and pathetic. Especially considering the pride he takes in being a so-called "Straight Talker".

BucEyedPea
03-29-2008, 04:55 PM
Adept, I didn't say whether or not I believed his answer. My pov has been all along that I don't think his knowing or not is a campaign sinker. I don't care if he's pandering here or not. I didn't read the lead post that closely because I got the gist of the matter near the start.

However, that being said, you'd be surprised what some congresscritters don't know. They don't even know their Constitution let alone what goes in Africa on condom use and Aids. IMO it's not even our govt's matter.
( I thought drug needles were also carriers too.)

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 05:03 PM
Adept, I didn't say whether or not I believed his answer.
The reason I said that is this statement of yours assumes he didn't.

I don't consider McCain not knowing the answer important at all either.

:shrug:

My pov has been all along that I don't think his knowing or not is a campaign sinker.
As I've said, I agree with this.

I don't care if he's pandering here or not. I didn't read the lead post that closely because I got the gist of the matter near the start.

I'm mainly amused that some folks seem to have a little difficulty accepting the fact that straight-talking McCain is just as much of a weasel congresscritter as Obama and Clinton. Sure, he gave honorable service to his country, and suffered greatly in that service. For that he has my thanks.

However, he's since become just another lying politico, and for that he has my contempt (as do Clinton and Obama). This (IMO) claim of ignorance is just another clear sign of it, as is his decision to stand with Hagee and kissing Falwell's ass (figuratively speaking) a little while back.

Baby Lee
03-29-2008, 05:42 PM
The reporter responded to McCain's statement about supporting Bush's policy by saying: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence."

He then asked: "Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”" No mention of "Africa" at all.
.
SOMEWHERE in NORTHERN IOWA — The unthinkable has happened. Senator John McCain met a question, while sitting with reporters on his bus as it rumbled through Iowa today, that he couldn’t – or perhaps wouldn’t – answer.


Did he support the distribution of taxpayer-subsidized condoms in Africa to fight the transmission of H.I.V.?


What followed was a long series of awkward pauses, glances up to the ceiling and the image of one of Mr. McCain’s aides, standing off to the back, urgently motioning his press secretary to come to Mr. McCain’s side.

vailpass
03-29-2008, 06:01 PM
So McCain wanted to consult his experts, gather data, and formulate a cogent response rather than sprinkle fairy dust and spew forth with the bullshit?
Craziness.

Jenson71
03-29-2008, 06:02 PM
Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”
Q: “I mean, I think you’d probably agree it probably does help stop it?”
Mr. McCain: (Laughs) “Are we on the Straight Talk express? I’m not informed enough on it.


That's probably one of the most honest things we could ever see in a campaign.

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 06:11 PM
Yes, that appeared in the article BL, but that wasn't the question the author put to McCain (though it likely was his intent).

The actual question asked of McCain:

Q: “So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?”

Mr. McCain: (Long pause) “You’ve stumped me.”

If any of you actually believe he doesn't know if Condoms help prevent the spread of HIV, I've got a very nice bridge to sell you.

He's a pandering POS, just like Obama and Clinton. Funny how hard that is for some folks to accept.

I suppose that shouldn't surprise me. It's just like meme defending Clinton and the Obama folks rallying around him. Few folks can bring themselves to admit "their guy" in a race is just as FOS as the others.

BucEyedPea
03-29-2008, 06:22 PM
The reason I said that is this statement of yours assumes he didn't.

:shrug:

As I've said, I agree with this.


I'm mainly amused that some folks seem to have a little difficulty accepting the fact that straight-talking McCain is just as much of a weasel congresscritter as Obama and Clinton. Sure, he gave honorable service to his country, and suffered greatly in that service. For that he has my thanks.

However, he's since become just another lying politico, and for that he has my contempt (as do Clinton and Obama). This (IMO) claim of ignorance is just another clear sign of it, as is his decision to stand with Hagee and kissing Falwell's ass (figuratively speaking) a little while back.

Oh I don't think he isn't a weasel at all. I certainly don't believe him on tax cuts, border security before amnesty or conservative SC appointees either (hear he has issues with Alito). But those are issues that are more important to me. I could give a rats ass about condoms/aids. As for Hagee and Falwell, I think he's pandering to them too.

alanm
03-29-2008, 06:23 PM
Did he support the distribution of taxpayer-subsidized condoms in Africa to fight the transmission of H.I.V.?
I believe that this was the specific question. If I was asked the question I would of said yes and how soon will the European Union be getting around to funding them. :)

Adept Havelock
03-29-2008, 06:43 PM
I believe that this was the specific question. If I was asked the question I would of said yes and how soon will the European Union be getting around to funding them. :)

Amazing how both you and BL can ignore the question that was actually asked in the transcript.

I do like your answer to the question he wasn't asked. :D

. I could give a rats ass about condoms/aids.

As could I, as far as the Government so concerned.

My concern is with a candidate for President who punts on such a common-sense question, likely because he is pandering to some fringe nutjobs.

a1na2
03-29-2008, 08:45 PM
It's more if he doesn't know something this easy, how can we expect him to solve hard problems.

Tell me, what do condoms in Africa have to do with the daily needs of the U.S.?

Nothing? OMG what will we do?

If you are so concerned why don't you start an organization and ship as many cases of them over that you can?

This has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen you bring up, but then as a flaming liberal you will do anything to attack the opposition.

plbrdude
03-29-2008, 09:08 PM
at this stage of the game i wish, i really wish there was someone to look to and say," they're the one. the nation will be better off with them in charge." my self, i don't see anything good for the nation with any of these three. our choice seems to be more war that the nation can't afford, or turning us into a socialist state where all citizens are dependent on the government. why does it seem that only the common citizen is worried about our borders, illegal aliens, actually winning the war in iraq and getting out, reversing the largest trade deficit in the history of mankind, and a few other things? because these guys don't seem to be.

banyon
03-29-2008, 09:09 PM
Tell me, what do condoms in Africa have to do with the daily needs of the U.S.?
.

About as much as Iraq does.

BucEyedPea
03-30-2008, 06:29 AM
My concern is with a candidate for President who punts on such a common-sense question, likely because he is pandering to some fringe nutjobs.
Well, I kinda thought this was your real problem with it. The sex aspect. It's probably why it was asked too—to embarrass. Reporters are liberal usually. I think Mac did say he wouldn't want to spend govt money on it whether or not it did help. But a question like that to a presidential candidate should be irrelevant, as its outside his role.

Baby Lee
03-30-2008, 07:11 AM
I suppose that shouldn't surprise me. It's just like meme defending Clinton and the Obama folks rallying around him. Few folks can bring themselves to admit "their guy" in a race is just as FOS as the others.

Oh I'm so sorry, I had no idea you were under the impression that McCain was 'my guy.'

Baby Lee
03-30-2008, 07:13 AM
at this stage of the game i wish, i really wish there was someone to look to and say," they're the one. the nation will be better off with them in charge." my self, i don't see anything good for the nation with any of these three. our choice seems to be more war that the nation can't afford, or turning us into a socialist state where all citizens are dependent on the government. why does it seem that only the common citizen is worried about our borders, illegal aliens, actually winning the war in iraq and getting out, reversing the largest trade deficit in the history of mankind, and a few other things? because these guys don't seem to be.

Well, if Guiliani hadn't ran the bone-headedest campaign in history. . . [sigh]

irishjayhawk
03-30-2008, 08:33 AM
Well, I kinda thought this was your real problem with it. The sex aspect. It's probably why it was asked too—to embarrass. Reporters are liberal usually. I think Mac did say he wouldn't want to spend govt money on it whether or not it did help. But a question like that to a presidential candidate should be irrelevant, as its outside his role.

How can you say it's out of his role? I mean look at Bush and his insistence at a abstinence only policy.

Plus, in this case, it's how he answered and what he didn't say that's more of concern.

Adept Havelock
03-30-2008, 09:48 AM
Well, I kinda thought this was your real problem with it. The sex aspect.

No, as I've said repeatedly in this thread my problem is with his willingness to feign (IMO) ignorance on a common-sense hygene/science question to pander to a fringe group. His willingness to punt on a politically touchy but common-sense question shows me he's as much a weasel as Obama or Clinton.

If he'll do it on this subject, who know where else he will feign ignorance or ignore basic scientific truths to placate another fringe group?

That is my "problem" with it.

I'm not sure how asking someone if they believe condoms help prevent the spread of AIDS is "embarrassing", but apparently your mileage differs. That's fine, I just find it curious that would embarrass someone who is already discussing the subject of abstinence/contraception as it pertains to an existing Federal Policy.

Now if the reporter had asked him what brand he preferred back when he was cheating on his wife with his current one, I could see the reason for embarrassment. That also would have been well "over the line" for the reporter IMO, so I'm glad he only put a simple question about science to him, likely in an attempt to discern his motivation for supporting the current "abstinence" only policy.

After all, if he believed they were not effective, it would make sense to not support teaching their use in AIDS prevention. However, if he did believe they were effective (as they are, and I strongly suspect he knows that, as does almost every reasonably informed person) and supports that policy anyway, I question his motives as it's not a logical position.

Oh I'm so sorry, I had no idea you were under the impression that McCain was 'my guy.'

As Rudy wasn't running, I figured you were more likely to vote for McCain than Obama or Clinton.

Please accept my apologies for my presumption.


Plus, in this case, it's how he answered and what he didn't say that's more of concern.

Precisely.

Baby Lee
03-30-2008, 10:17 AM
As Rudy wasn't running, I figured you were more likely to vote for McCain than Obama or Clinton.
More like I no longer have 'a guy.'
Hillary is not an option in any known universe.
Obama hasn't convinced me he'll anything more than 'listen' to alternative views before pushing every fiscally liberal policy he can. I doubt he'll raise my ire on anything socially, so he's fine there.
McCain has not only a nanny-state pedigree, but a bone headed approach to nanny-stating. That is nanny-stating with legislation that has more negative side-effects than the positives it seeks to promote. If he gets my vote, it'll be for the hope of fiscal restraint and for the Supreme Court nominations, pretty much a joyless affair, though.

Adept Havelock
03-30-2008, 10:20 AM
More like I no longer have 'a guy.'
Hillary is not an option in any known universe.
Obama hasn't convinced me he'll anything more than 'listen' to alternative views before pushing every fiscally liberal policy he can. I doubt he'll raise my ire on anything socially, so he's fine there.
McCain has not only a nanny-state pedigree, but a bone headed approach to nanny-stating. That is nanny-stating with legislation that has more negative side-effects than the positives it seeks to promote. If he gets my vote, it'll be for the hope of fiscal restraint and for the Supreme Court nominations, pretty much a joyless affair, though.

Sounds like we're about in the same boat, though with slightly different motivations. I do agree Obama is probably the best (or at least the lesser of three evils) on Social issues, but he and McCain's nanny-statism is a concern.

I think McCain might be a mild improvement over the other two on spending (though after the last 7 years, I'm far from confident about that), and think he'd be decent about keeping a split/centrist SC. If I pull the lever for him, it's mainly because I don't want one party controlling the legislature and executive ever again. Both have shown in the last decade and a half they simply can't be trusted with it.

Mr. Laz
03-30-2008, 11:34 AM
the lack of his own thought process should be.

yep