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irishjayhawk
04-03-2008, 10:21 PM
There Is No Gas Shortage

But Washington, Wall Street, and ethanol and oil and gas companies want you to think there is, says automotive expert Ed Wallace

by Ed Wallace (http://www.businessweek.com/print/bios/Ed_Wallace.htm)
"They see speculation in the market, I see decline in global inventories. I don't think this is a big surprise, that we've had a jump in price when there has been a decrease in crude inventories."— Energy Secretary Sam Bodman, <cite>Bloomberg News</cite>, Mar. 5, 2008

"It should be obvious to you all that the [gasoline] demand is outstripping supply, which causes prices to go up." — President George W. Bush, Associated Press, Mar. 5, 2008

One wonders if verifiable facts ever get in the way of this administration's statements on issues that are critical to the average American's wellbeing. After all, last time I checked, when politicians are elected to public office, or appointed, as is Energy Secretary Samuel W. Bodman, they must take an oath to the American people before assuming their new positions. How can they forget a sacred oath so quickly? Were they daydreaming when they took it, so it never meant anything to begin with? Maybe it's just another promise you have to make to get into office: When you're securely incumbent you can ignore even solemn oaths you took.


Obviously, the two quotes that led this article came from discussions concerning the current high price for oil on the futures market. Bodman appears to be protecting the speculators in oil, as opposed to looking after the interests of all Americans. President Bush, apparently, has never talked to the Energy Dept.'s Energy Information Agency to see whether gasoline demand is actually up. More troubling, the writer of that particular Associated Press article obviously didn't look up the EIA's numbers to verify the President's assertions. They weren't accurate.


1. There Is No Shortage
Gasoline reserves on hand are at the highest levels since the early 1990s, which is remarkable considering the nation's refineries have been cutting back on the production of gasoline because their margins have declined. In fact, average gasoline reserves on hand have risen since this past October, while oil reserves in this country have gone up virtually every week this year—and only fog in the Houston Ship Channel that kept oil tankers from unloading their crude one week kept it from being every week.


In the same Bloomberg article that quotes from Bodman's CNBC appearance on Mar. 4, he also said that it was thanks to ethanol that the gasoline problem isn't even worse. He then added that the fact that making ethanol is forcing up prices of other farm commodities, including hog and chicken feed, is "nowhere near as important as trying to relieve pressure on [gasoline] supplies."


Of course, there is no pressure on gasoline supplies in this country as of today, but Bodman's statement must have made eyes roll among the executives at Pilgrim's Pride PPC (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?symbol=PPC); the Pittsburg, (Tex.) poultry producer announced 1,100 layoffs on Mar. 13, closing one processing plant and 6 of their 13 distribution centers because their company's outlay for chicken feed went up $600 million last fiscal year and was on track to increase by another $700 million this year.


Here's the scorecard, in case you missed it. There's no shortage of gasoline or oil in the U.S. today, and we have near-record reserves on hand. Meanwhile the Congressional mandate for ethanol has jacked up the price of chicken feed for Pilgrim's Pride, which is the U.S.'s largest processor of chickens and turkeys—by $1.3 billion. And that's for just one company processing chicken. This is what passes for acceptable to our Energy Secretary?


2. Demand Is DOWN, Yet Prices Are UP
Just so we can all get on the same page, here are the verifiable facts on oil supplies, production, and gasoline demand.



In January of this year, the U.S. used 4% less petroleum than we did a year ago. (Oil demand was down 3.2% in February.) Furthermore, demand has been falling slowly since July of last year. Ronald Bailey of Reason Online has pointed out that worldwide production of oil has risen 2.5% in the first quarter, while worldwide demand has grown by only 2%.
Production is expected to increase by 3.3% in the second quarter, and by as much as 4.1% by the third quarter. The net result is that the U.S. daily buffer for oil production against demand, which was a paltry 1.5 million barrels as recently as 2005, is now up to 3 million barrels in excess capacity today.</pagebr></p>


</pagebr></p> So what is going on here? Why would our Energy Secretary say there's a supply and demand problem when none exists? Why would he say that speculators have little or nothing to do with the incredibly high price of oil and gasoline, when it's clear they do? President Bush—a former oilman—gives the ever-growing demand for gasoline as the primary reason prices are so high, yet that notion can be dispelled with one minute of research. That's the problem with rhetoric; it rarely matches the facts.


3. Speculation is Up, and the Dollar Is Down
On the same day the President and our Energy Secretary made those foolish comments, no less an authority than ExxonMobil (XOM (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?symbol=XOM)) Chief Executive Officer Rex Tillerson (http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=1127018&symbol=XOM) was quoted by Marketwatch as saying, "The record run in oil prices is related more to speculation and a weakening dollar than supply and demand in the market." He added, "In terms of fundamentals, fear of supply reliability is overblown."


As for the speculators, in 2000 approximately $9 billion was invested in oil futures, while today that number has gone up to $250 billion. Now, if any publicly traded company had an additional $241 billion put into its stock in the same period, its stock would rise out of sight too—even if the company was not worth anywhere near that amount of market capitalization.
Moving on to the weak U.S. dollar as a primary cause for skyrocketing oil prices—there is "some" truth in that statement. But consider this: The dollar has depreciated 30% against the world's currencies since 2002, while the price of oil has gone up 500%. So is it the weak dollar that has caused a 500% increase in the price of oil, or is it the extra $241 billion worth of speculation? You can make the call on that one.
Possibly just to ensure oil prices don't respond to real-world market conditions, Goldman Sachs (GS (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?symbol=GS)) forecast on Mar. 7 that turbulence in the oil market could cause oil to spike as high as $200 a barrel. This flies in the face of all known information—but then again, Goldman Sachs is the world's biggest trader of energy derivatives, and its Goldman Sachs Commodities Index is a widely watched barometer of energy and commodities prices.


What Is Washington Thinking?
Rounding out the list of experts discussing our oil and gasoline situation is Bill Klesse (http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=371573&symbol=VLO), head of San Antonio (Tex.) Valero Energy (VLO (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?symbol=VLO)). He spoke in San Diego a week after those comments from Goldman Sachs, the President, and Secretary Bodman. Believe it or not, Klesse said poor margins may cause Valero to sell one-third of its refinery operations; he stated that poor margins in recent months had caused planned refinery expansions—which would have produced 500,000 more barrels per day—to be canceled. Moreover, according to a report from Reuters on Mar. 11, 2008, Klesse recently released the information that gasoline production has been curtailed in response to slowing demand.
Imagine that: Refiners cut gasoline production, yet gasoline reserves have grown to their largest since late 1992. So much for "surging demand."

Klesse also called for the government to start imposing a tariff on imported gasoline to protect U.S. refiners' profits. Protectionism? As famed economist John Kenneth Galbraith correctly said, "In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich."
</pagebr></p> Which takes us back to the original question: Why is Washington doing everything it can to convince us there is a shortage when there isn't one? After all, the only people they're protecting are those heavily invested in oil futures—and that's to the detriment of all other Americans.


We're Paying for What?
When it became undeniable that poor decision-making by company executives had put a respected 85-year-old U.S. institution in financial peril, why did the Federal Reserve rush in to save investment bank Bear Stearns (BSC (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?symbol=BSC))? Of course, we need to restore confidence in our financial institutions, but why protect the personal assets of those who were responsible for the mess? Both the corporation's officers and its board members should contribute their personal assets toward saving the bank they put in the ditch—the bank all of us are going to pay to bail out.
Instead, the Bush administration is protecting those responsible for creating yet another speculative bubble in oil futures, and is protecting investors in the ethanol industry—much to the detriment of food-processing companies such as Pilgrim's Pride. And the net result of all this is that the prices of crude and gasoline rise ever higher thanks to a "shortage" that does not exist, while food costs are soaring thanks in part to the ethanol mandate.


The Federal Reserve lowers interest rates, but the cost of mortgages goes up six weeks in a row—and last month Bank of America (BAC (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?symbol=BAC)) credit-card holders started being charged more than 24% interest on new purchases.
This is what they call "Republican Prosperity?" Ronald Reagan was both right and wrong when he said, "Government is not the solution, government is the problem." And government is still the problem. Instead of a fair and open market they gave us a free-for-all marketplace with no regulations at all, which lately these "bubble boys" have sent south for all of us.


One would guess that Washington missed the obvious: Protect all U.S. consumers and you're also protecting business expansion.
Ed Wallace (https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cm&tf=0&ui=1&to=wheels570@sbcglobal.net) holds a Gerald R. Loeb Award for business journalism, bestowed by the Anderson School of Business at UCLA. His column heads the Sunday Drive section of the Fort Worth <cite>Star-Telegram</cite>, and he is a member of the American Historical Society. The automotive expert for KDFW Fox 4 in Dallas, Wallace hosts the top-rated talk show <cite>Wheels</cite>, Saturdays from 8 a.m. to 1 p.m. on 570 KLIF AM in Dallas.





Now, an aside question for BEP and TJ with their ultra capitalism Isn't this a way that capitalism goes awry?

jAZ
04-04-2008, 08:33 AM
Now, an aside question for BEP and TJ with their ultra capitalism Isn't this a way that capitalism goes awry?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_failure

Market failure
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Market failure is a term used by economists to describe the condition where the allocation of goods and services by a free market is not efficient. Market failure can be viewed as a scenario in which individuals' pursuit of self-interest leads to bad results for society as a whole.

penchief
04-04-2008, 08:40 AM
Basically the point I've been trying to make all along.

oldandslow
04-04-2008, 08:42 AM
Free Market Evangelical belief system is no different than any other religion.

The Holy Spirit is simply replaced by the Invisible Hand.

Radar Chief
04-04-2008, 09:09 AM
I’d be interested in Donger’s opinion. IIRC, he’s been saying that there is a pricing bubble that has to burst at some point.

Donger
04-04-2008, 10:36 AM
The present high price of crude (and therefore gasoline and other refined products) has very little to do with supply and demand.

Bowser
04-04-2008, 10:40 AM
The present high price of crude (and therefore gasoline and other refined products) has very little to do with supply and demand.

I don't understand how price of crude being refined today has to do with what we have in reserve and on hand.


These guys running sleeper tractors cross country are paying $1200+ everytime they run dry to fill up. Unbelievable.

Donger
04-04-2008, 10:46 AM
I don't understand how price of crude being refined today has to do with what we have in reserve and on hand.


These guys running sleeper tractors cross country are paying $1200+ everytime they run dry to fill up. Unbelievable.

Because the crude being refined now is going to replace the oil and gas we have on hand. That's true with the buying of crude, too.

Taco John
04-04-2008, 10:50 AM
Now, an aside question for BEP and TJ with their ultra capitalism Isn't this a way that capitalism goes awry?


We don't have free market capitalism in this country. We have a progressive "mixed" economy - which means capitalism mixed with socialism. Clearly, it doesn't work great. The problem is, the capitalist part takes all the blame for the problems. This is because the capitalist part is out in the open. The socialist part happens on the back-end where nobody can see it.

Bowser
04-04-2008, 10:53 AM
Because the crude being refined now is going to replace the oil and gas we have on hand. That's true with the buying of crude, too.

Sounds like a scam. Barrels sitting around that were refined at 70/barrel (or less) are getting treated like they were refined at whatever price is set today? How does that work?

jAZ
04-04-2008, 10:54 AM
The present high price of crude (and therefore gasoline and other refined products) has very little to do with supply and demand.
Why tell us what it's not, IYO. Tell us what you think it is.

Donger
04-04-2008, 10:56 AM
Sounds like a scam. Barrels sitting around that were refined at 70/barrel (or less) are getting treated like they were refined at whatever price is set today? How does that work?

I think we've had this discussion before, but look at it this way:

The gasoline retailer sees that his next shipment of gasoline (which will replace his present stock) is going to cost him $0.10 more per gallon. So, he immediately raises the price of his present gasoline stock to compensate for what he knows he will have to pay to replace it.

Taco John
04-04-2008, 10:58 AM
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Donger
04-04-2008, 10:58 AM
Why tell us what it's not, IYO. Tell us what you think it is.

Speculation. I do not believe that the fundamentals of oil presently support the high price of crude. Not even close, IMO. The weak dollar and speculation drove the price up and is keeping it up.

I do believe that it will drop to where the fundamentals support it: ~$60-70/barrel.

Bowser
04-04-2008, 11:00 AM
I think we've had this discussion before, but look at it this way:

The gasoline retailer sees that his next shipment of gasoline (which will replace his present stock) is going to cost him $0.10 more per gallon. So, he immediately raises the price of his present gasoline stock to compensate for what he knows he will have to pay to replace it.

I get that, but I'm talking about the supplies we have on hand, already paid for.


And yes, this, and every other subject regarding gasoline, has surely been discussed to death around here. Heh.

Donger
04-04-2008, 11:01 AM
I get that, but I'm talking about the supplies we have on hand, already paid for.


And yes, this, and every other subject regarding gasoline, has surely been discussed to death around here. Heh.

Same thing. The gasoline in the tanks at your local station has been paid for, but the retailer will adjust the price of THAT gas based on what his replacement costs will be.

mlyonsd
04-04-2008, 11:09 AM
Same thing. The gasoline in the tanks at your local station has been paid for, but the retailer will adjust the price of THAT gas based on what his replacement costs will be.

I wonder what the average time in seconds/minutes it takes the retailer to raise the price at the pump when he finds out the next replacement shipment is going to be a dime more a gallon, compared to the average time in days/weeks he takes to reduce the price when replacement costs are going down.

irishjayhawk
04-04-2008, 11:15 AM
Same thing. The gasoline in the tanks at your local station has been paid for, but the retailer will adjust the price of THAT gas based on what his replacement costs will be.

I might believe that if the gas stations were independent of the oil companies. Seeing as they really aren't....

irishjayhawk
04-04-2008, 11:19 AM
I wonder what the average time in seconds/minutes it takes the retailer to raise the price at the pump when he finds out the next replacement shipment is going to be a dime more a gallon, compared to the average time in days/weeks he takes to reduce the price when replacement costs are going down.

:doh!:

Very good point.

Donger
04-04-2008, 11:23 AM
I wonder what the average time in seconds/minutes it takes the retailer to raise the price at the pump when he finds out the next replacement shipment is going to be a dime more a gallon, compared to the average time in days/weeks he takes to reduce the price when replacement costs are going down.

Asymmetric price adjustment.

Donger
04-04-2008, 11:28 AM
I might believe that if the gas stations were independent of the oil companies. Seeing as they really aren't....

The vast majority of gas stations are not owned by the oil companies.

Carlota69
04-04-2008, 11:34 AM
So, what this thread is telling me is, everytime I go to the gas pumps and grab my ankles, I'm getting ****ed with sand vasoline? Or is it saying that I get real lube?

I'm gathering the former...

Donger
04-04-2008, 11:36 AM
So, what this thread is telling me is, everytime I go to the gas pumps and grab my ankles, I'm getting ****ed with sand vasoline? Or is it saying that I get real lube?

I'm gathering the former...

Don't forget: the stations make a few cents on each gallon sold. The high prices are NOT their fault. It all starts with the price of crude, so to be accurate, you are literally being bent over the barrel.

Carlota69
04-04-2008, 11:51 AM
Don't forget: the stations make a few cents on each gallon sold. The high prices are NOT their fault. It all starts with the price of crude, so to be accurate, you are literally being bent over the barrel.

So, I'm bent over the barrel--Well I knew I was getting ****ed. Now you're telling me I'm getting splinters too?

BucEyedPea
04-04-2008, 11:52 AM
Barrel of laughs here. LMAO

BucEyedPea
04-04-2008, 12:34 PM
Now, an aside question for BEP and TJ with their ultra capitalism Isn't this a way that capitalism goes awry?
Except we don't have what I think you mean by "ultra capitalism." We have cartel capitalism. What we've also said is that there is also inflation, which is related to govt borrowing including for this war among other things and a declining dollar both of which are making things more expensive.

Most of all you're paying for a war young man. I've also said before war affects confidence in supplies to suppliers will also raise rates. Other factors: The dollar's value is down too. These are also factors and are related, not to a market, but to the acts of govt. The market is simply responding to these acts. The American military machine also puts a big demand on oil too. So govt IS a BIG part of the problem on higher prices—not oil companies.

Here's a short read by Ron Paul on how our govt can help the situation as in a legitimate govt actions over price fixing, higher taxes or subsidies for more expensive ethanol, or mandates for vehicles for better mileage which many people would buy anyway to save or funding of alt fuels. ( the govt chose more expensive and less enviro friendly ethanol...typical)

What congress can do for oil prices. (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul336.html)

Basically he says reassess our foreign policy, cut spending, cut borrowing, balance budgets, eliminate regulations that interfere with the market development of alternative fuels, end all subsidies and special benefits to energy companies, eliminate federal gas taxes at the pump. These things will allow the market to work.

Taco John
04-04-2008, 01:18 PM
Now, an aside question for BEP and TJ with their ultra capitalism Isn't this a way that capitalism goes awry?

I just want to re-iterate, since you brought it up. The system that we are operating in is NOT capitalism. It's progressivism. The problems that we're seeing in oil are not problems of capitalism. They're problems that belong to the the progressivist "mixed market" philosophy.

What Buc posted is well worth reading...


Here's a short read by Ron Paul on how our govt can help the situation as in a legitimate govt actions over price fixing, higher taxes or subsidies for more expensive ethanol, or mandates for vehicles for better mileage which many people would buy anyway to save or funding of alt fuels. ( the govt chose more expensive and less enviro friendly ethanol...typical)

What congress can do for oil prices. (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul336.html)

Basically he says reassess our foreign policy, cut spending, cut borrowing, balance budgets, eliminate regulations that interfere with the market development of alternative fuels, end all subsidies and special benefits to energy companies, eliminate federal gas taxes at the pump. These things will allow the market to work.

penchief
04-04-2008, 03:36 PM
I just want to re-iterate, since you brought it up. The system that we are operating in is NOT capitalism. It's progressivism. The problems that we're seeing in oil are not problems of capitalism. They're problems that belong to the the progressivist "mixed market" philosophy.

What Buc posted is well worth reading...

Except that you're blaming the bogeyman for something that belongs to your egocentric ideology. It isn't progressives who are benefitting. Progressives, like myself, want government to work for the overall good. We don't want government to cater to crooked businessmen who have paid for access to power.

You are so full of shit when you blame the results of right wing opportunism on left wing progressivism. Buck up and take responsibility for the damage that has been done by the intentional loopholes within your ideology. The Cheneyburtons of the world are the creation of your philosophy of economic Darwinism and not the intentions of those who strive for equity, IMHO.

BucEyedPea
04-04-2008, 03:40 PM
The Cheneyburtons of the world are the creation of your philosophy of economic Darwinism and not the intentions of those who strive for equity, IMHO.

What's wrong with that? I'd think you'd like it as it gets rid of the poor. ( double entendre)

penchief
04-04-2008, 03:41 PM
What's wrong with that? I'd think you'd like it as it gets rid of the poor. ( double entendre)

Because it's inherently anti-libertarian. That is the same ideology that ultimately leads to economic slavery.

BucEyedPea
04-04-2008, 03:43 PM
Because it's inherently anti-libertarian. That is the same ideology that ultimately leads to economic slavery.

You mean left-libertarian? Those guys hate free-markets and private property more than the communists.:evil:

Taco John
04-04-2008, 03:43 PM
Except that you're blaming the bogeyman for something that belongs to your egocentric ideology. It isn't progressives who are benefitting. Progressives, like myself, want government to work for the overall good. We don't want government to cater to crooked businessmen who have paid for access to power.

That's because it's a ****ing naive ideology. "We want to empower government to 'make things fair', and hope that it doesn't corrupt them." In a perfect world where everybody thought of everybody else first, progressivism would be great. In the real world, where everybody thinks of themselves first, progressivism is a ****ing stupid ideology that will always end up mired in corruption and thus failure.


You are so full of shit when you blame the results of right wing opportunism on left wing progressivism.

Opportunism isn't right wing or left wing. It's human nature.


Buck up and take responsibility for the damage that has been done by the intentional loopholes within your ideology. The Cheneyburtons of the world are the creation of your philosophy of economic Darwinism and not the intentions of those who strive for equity, IMHO.

You're abosultely wrong. My ideology doesn't give the power to these types that your ideology does. Progressivism has created a monster. Look at the power you've given government. Your ideology was the foot in the door to make it possible.

penchief
04-04-2008, 04:00 PM
You mean left-libertarian? Those guys hate free-markets and private property more than the communists.:evil:

I don't agree. IMO, left libertarians believe in a true free-market (not one that is dominated by those who have the most influence). The free market is a concept that should be accessible to all, not just those who have the inside track.

You fail to recognize the reality of what is really going on. You think that everything is based on pure theory. Well, the truth is that pure theory is exploited by those who have influence. That is why those who have economic influence advocate the same theories that you advocate.

Until you are able to recognize the phallacies that exist within that theory, you will not be able to understand why reality is the best teacher of all. When reality confronts theory, I am right and you are wrong when it comes to our contemporary debate.

Taco John
04-04-2008, 04:10 PM
I don't agree. IMO, left libertarians believe in a true free-market (not one that is dominated by those who have the most influence).

:spock::doh!:

Until you are able to recognize the phallacies...


:spock::doh!::drool:



:LOL:

Taco John
04-04-2008, 04:11 PM
I don't agree. IMO, left libertarians believe in a true free-market (not one that is dominated by those who have the most influence). The free market is a concept that should be accessible to all, not just those who have the inside track.

You fail to recognize the reality of what is really going on. You think that everything is based on pure theory. Well, the truth is that pure theory is exploited by those who have influence. That is why those who have economic influence advocate the same theories that you advocate.

Until you are able to recognize the phallacies that exist within that theory, you will not be able to understand why reality is the best teacher of all. When reality confronts theory, I am right and you are wrong when it comes to our contemporary debate.



Communism at it's finest... A rather dumb form of it... But communism none the less.

penchief
04-04-2008, 04:28 PM
That's because it's a ****ing naive ideology. "We want to empower government to 'make things fair', and hope that it doesn't corrupt them."

No.....we want government to ensure that things are NOT unfair and to PREVENT corruption. What is wrong with that? It's time to live with honesty.

In a perfect world where everybody thought of everybody else first, progressivism would be great. In the real world, where everybody thinks of themselves first, progressivism is a ****ing stupid ideology that will always end up mired in corruption and thus failure.

In our current world where everybody thinks of themself first and dismisses everyone else, that is true. But we would be much better off than we are now if we were to look at the bigger picture. The problem exists because we allow our self-interests to interfere with our civic duty. And because we are a self-centered, throw-away society, we don't give two shits about our fellow human beings.

Opportunism isn't right wing or left wing. It's human nature.

I agree that opportunism is an open door. However, you can't convince me that a progressive would stand in the same shoes as GW Bush and do the same thing. He did what he did because he's an opportunist. Not because he's looking out for you and me.

penchief
04-04-2008, 04:32 PM
:spock::doh!:




:spock::doh!::drool:



:LOL:

Nice response.

penchief
04-04-2008, 04:33 PM
Communism at it's finest... A rather dumb form of it... But communism none the less.

Another nice response by someone who considers himself an authority. Keep up the good work comrade.

Taco John
04-04-2008, 04:37 PM
I agree that opportunism is an open door. However, you can't convince me that a progressive would stand in the same shoes as GW Bush and do the same thing. He did what he did because he's an opportunist. Not because he's looking out for you and me.

I wouldn't dare try to convince you of that. I'm not saying that progressives would stand in the same shoes as Bush and do the same thing. I'm saying they would empower the government and then lose an election or two or three or fifty, and then act stupid and indignant about it when the people they are losing to start to pull on the powerful levers that they've created and corruption ensues.

Progressivism is a noble but ultimately stupid idea. The only answer to the stupidity and corruption that is the end-product of progressivism is limited constitutional government.

penchief
04-04-2008, 05:00 PM
I wouldn't dare try to convince you of that. I'm not saying that progressives would stand in the same shoes as Bush and do the same thing. I'm saying they would empower the government and then lose an election or two or three or fifty, and then act stupid and indignant about it when the people they are losing to start to pull on the powerful levers that they've created and corruption ensues.

Pure speculation. You are proving that you are a product of the times. We already know what the influence of money has done to our government and our media. Why not just go ahead and admit that you are a victim of propaganda and the corporate influenced media?

Progressivism is a noble but ultimately stupid idea. The only answer to the stupidity and corruption that is the end-product of progressivism is limited constitutional government.

Progressivism is the noble ideal of our times. Greed is anti-progressivism. Greed is the self-destructive result that we are currently expreriencing with BushRon, Cheneyburton, etc.

Greed is a narrow and lonely highway. America is traversing that path as we speak. When all is said and done, we will find ourselves gasping for air. Why not just give it up and admit that you're advocating the will of those who want to occupy everyone's else's breathing air?

jAZ
04-04-2008, 05:03 PM
Speculation. I do not believe that the fundamentals of oil presently support the high price of crude. Not even close, IMO. The weak dollar and speculation drove the price up and is keeping it up.

I do believe that it will drop to where the fundamentals support it: ~$60-70/barrel.

A while back, when it was a about $70-90/barrell, weren't you running around here blaming a lack of refining capacity and "regulations" from for the price?

Donger
04-04-2008, 05:12 PM
A while back, when it was a about $70-90/barrell, weren't you running around here blaming a lack of refining capacity and "regulations" from for the price?

I think you are confusing the price of gasoline and the price of crude. When the refineries are operating at near 100% capacity, the price of gasoline goes up, crude doesn't necessarily. That was the case last spring. So, yes, last year I was stating that the high price of gas was due to refinery issues, not so much the price of crude. The refinery (after the sale of crude) was the bottleneck. The last figure I saw was that our refineries are at something like 90% right now.

Crude is high right now because of speculation. Gas is high because of the high price of crude.

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2008, 01:09 AM
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RockChalk Jayhawk, KU!
RockChalk Jayhawk, KU!

ROCKCHALK JAYHAWK, KKK-UUUU!!!



Go Jayhawks!

:KU: