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View Full Version : Are there conservative Democrats or liberal Republicans?


Jenson71
04-08-2008, 04:46 PM
Are there any today? Were there ever? What would they stand for? Who are some examples?

Saggysack
04-08-2008, 05:30 PM
Personally, I don't think there are any true conservatives or a true liberals. It is my belief that each one of us have both liberal and conservative beliefs.

Example: Conservatives are liberal handing out tax cuts. Liberals are conservative handing out tax cuts.

Taco John
04-08-2008, 05:42 PM
Government doesn't "hand out" a tax cut. They can only stop "handing" people's money in.

whoman69
04-08-2008, 06:16 PM
Arlen Specter, Joe Lieberman come to mind.

alanm
04-08-2008, 09:24 PM
Arlen Specter, Joe Lieberman come to mind.
Zell Miller, Ben Nelson of Nebraska.

Logical
04-08-2008, 09:31 PM
Most California govenors qualify whether Republican or Democrat, hard to be either completely one way or the other in CA the state populace is to diverse.

penchief
04-08-2008, 09:35 PM
Heck, yeah. I'm more conservative than most republicans. The reason I get labeled a communist is because I argue against political corruption, unethical business practices, and the brazen shittiness with which the current administration enables so much corruption.

SBK
04-08-2008, 09:48 PM
Heck, yeah. I'm more conservative than most republicans. The reason I get labeled a communist is because I argue against political corruption, unethical business practices, and the brazen shittiness with which the current administration enables so much corruption.

You've never struck me as conservative, maybe I'm alone in that?

Taco John
04-08-2008, 11:35 PM
You've never struck me as conservative, maybe I'm alone in that?


He's conservative for a communist.

SBK
04-08-2008, 11:48 PM
He's conservative for a communist.

LMAO

I read this poll and was thinking, are there any conservative republicans anymore?

J Diddy
04-09-2008, 12:06 AM
I think I would consider myself a conservative democrat.

ClevelandBronco
04-09-2008, 12:28 AM
I think I would consider myself a conservative democrat.

I'm probably a somewhat liberal Republican in a lot of ways. (Mostly socially, with the unequivocal exception of Roe v. Wade.) What do you think makes you a conservative Democrat?

tiptap
04-09-2008, 07:52 AM
Is Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) a liberal? Is Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) a moderate? What about the other 98 senators? Where do they fit on the ideological spectrum? Let's look at some numbers. Hundreds of interest groups rate all members of Congress on how they vote on bills of special importance to them. If you vote with them all the time, you get a 100% rating. If you vote against them all the time, you get a 0% rating. These numbers are then distributed to their membership in an attempt to get members to vote for good members of Congress and against bad ones.

These ratings give us a tool to rate all the senators (there are too many House members to do this unless I can find a volunteer). Below seven representative liberal groups have been chosen and their ratings of all the senators given. The last column is the mean value. If you are a liberal, a high score is good (always votes correctly). If you are a conservative, a low score is good (never sucked in by that liberal stuff).

There are many noteworthy items to be found here. To start with, it is all blue on top and all red on the bottom (with senators Sanders and Lieberman counting as honorary Democrats since they caucus with the Democrats). With three exceptions, all Republicans are less liberal than the most conservative Democrat, Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD). The three exceptions are the two ladies from Maine, Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) and Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME), who are strongly pro-choice. If NARAL and abortion were not in the list, they would drop dramatically. The other Republican who floated to the top is Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA), who, unlike John McCain, really is a maverick.

To start with, the Senate is incredibly polarized. Younger readers may not believe this, but it was not always so. In the 1950s and 1960s, the Senate was far less ideological. Northern Republicans like Jacob Javits (R-NY) were actually quite liberal and southern Democrats like Sen. James Eastland (D-MS) were still angry with the Republicans for freeing the slaves. In those days, the great divide was north-south, not Democrats-Republicans. Only when Richard Nixon began implementing his Southern strategy (i.e., using racism to win the votes of poor Southern whites) did we get to the current polarization.

So, what about Obama, Clinton, and McCain? Obama at 80% and Clinton at 82% are (1) not far apart and (2) among the least liberal Democrats. In contrast, John McCain at 9% is one of the most conservative Republicans. When McCain campaigned this year as a true conservative, he was telling the truth. He is more conservative than Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY), the minority leader, and more conservative than all the senators from Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia, not known as hotbeds of liberalism. Conclusion: when people say Obama and Clinton are liberals, that's not true; when people say McCain is a conservative, that is true.

That aside, there are some real anomalies here. For example, Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-ND) is quite liberal, more so than the Barbaras (Boxer and Mikulski, both of whom are known as real firebrands). But Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD) is the most conservative Democrat, despite the demographics of the two states being pretty similar. Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT), who is often referred to in the blogosphere as a crypto-Republican actually has a more liberal rating than the other senator from Connecticut, Chris Dodd, who ran for President as a liberal.

Among Republicans, Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN) is one of the most liberal, despite coming from a rock-ribbed Republican state. And Lugar's record of being one of the Senate's few grown-ups on foreign policy issues does not even play a role here. And what about Sen. Orrin Hatch (R) of Utah? He ranks in the top quarter of Republicans. Surprise.

http://electoral-vote.com/

Go to site for the lists.

tiptap
04-09-2008, 08:04 AM
This article echoes what I have said about this for years. Even down to tracing the split to the Nixon Southern Strategy. The difference is that this has come full circle. By the next election cycle the North South, Democrat Republican, Union states Confederate states will outline the countries split. (minus Florida)

patteeu
04-09-2008, 08:21 AM
Heck, yeah. I'm more conservative than most republicans. The reason I get labeled a communist is because I argue against political corruption, unethical business practices, and the brazen shittiness with which the current administration enables so much corruption.

No, I think it's based more on the way you paraphrase the communist manifesto in every other post. :p

Taco John
04-09-2008, 08:27 AM
No, I think it's based more on the way you paraphrase the communist manifesto in every other post. :p

Down with the bourgeois! Power to the proletariat! (it is, after all, the Ben Franklin / Libertarian way... ROFL)

BucEyedPea
04-09-2008, 08:43 AM
This article echoes what I have said about this for years. Even down to tracing the split to the Nixon Southern Strategy. The difference is that this has come full circle. By the next election cycle the North South, Democrat Republican, Union states Confederate states will outline the countries split. (minus Florida)

We are UNIQUE :D!!

penchief
04-09-2008, 02:30 PM
He's conservative for a communist.

Heh, that's actually a good one.

tiptap
04-14-2008, 08:42 AM
In a follow up to the liberal ranking of Senators, here is a conservative ranking. Go to site to see the actual list. (tiptap)



"The candidates are skirmishing about whether the people in rural Pennsylvania are depressed about having their jobs shipped overseas. Maybe they could stop bickering long enough to suggest what they would do about the problem? Is it too much to expect that during a campaign the candidates would talk about their approaches to dealing with the nation's problems? You might expect that either one could score points by saying: "If I am elected, this is what I am going to do to help you..." But instead it looks like Lee Atwater is alive and well in Pennsylvania. In the absence of any polls today or any actual political news on the presidential front, let's go back to the discussion of the Senate started last week.

On April 9 we listed how liberal interest groups rated all the senators. Today we have ratings from the conservative interest groups. What is most striking is how polarized the Senate has become. With one exception, Ben Nelson (D-NE), even the least conservative Republican is more conservative than the most conservative Democrat. It was not like this at all in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. It is not so much that the Democrats have become more liberal as that the Republican party has been completely purged of the likes of Dwight Eisenhower, Nelson Rockefeller, Jacob Javits, and many other moderate Republicans. While Democrats have rid themselves of people like Sen. James Eastland (D-MS) and Sen. John Stennis (D-MS), there are still plenty of conservative Democrats around and not so many liberal firebrands like Barbara Boxer (D-CA). This incredible polarization is why the Senate has basically ceased to function. It used to be that most senators worked across the aisle. Now if a senator has lunch with a senator from the other party he or she can count on this as forming the basis for an attack ad come reelection time.

Also of note is that Barack Obama, with a conservative rating of 11% and Hillary Clinton, at 9%, hardly differ at all, and neither is anywhere near being the most liberal or most conservative Democrat. Interestingly enough, John McCain, at 73%, comes off as more moderate when rated by the conservative groups than when rated by the liberal groups. One might have thought that since the liberal groups clearly dislike McCain's voting record, the conservative groups would embrace it, but that is not the case. The difference could lie in precisely which votes each group counted.

The much-maligned Joe Lieberman (I-CT), whom progressives think of as a crypto-Republican, is slightly less conservative than their hero, Russ Feingold (D-WI).

Consider this: Of the 49 Republican senators, the one in the middle of the list, Richard Shelby (R-AL), has a conservative rating of 83%. The middle Democrat (counting Lieberman and Bernie Sanders as Democrats) is Ron Wyden (D-OR) at 10%. That's a 73% gap between the median Republican and the median Democrat. Is it any wonder than the Senate can't get anything done any more? The problem isn't that the senators can't agree on abortion and gay marriage. Nobody expects them to. The real problem is that this incessant ideological warfare on a few hot-button issues has kept the Senate from doing business on many other issues where left to their own devices, the senators could probably find common ground. After all, if John McCain (73% conservative rating) and Teddy Kennedy (7% conservative rating) could sit down together and write an immigration bill, a lot is possible.

Additional ratings from other interest groups can be found at www.vote-smart.org.

The eight groups used in this study are:
ACU - American Conservative Union
ATR - Americans for Tax Reform
CWA - Concern Women for America
Club4 - Club for Growth
Eagle - Eagle Forum
FRC - Family Research Council
RTL - Right to Life
TVC - Traditional Values Coalition"

http://electoral-vote.com/

Baby Lee
04-14-2008, 08:49 AM
The difficulty is defining what is liberal or conservative.
One person is thinking 'how much government intervention do you espouse?' Another is musing 'does he wear flashy clothes, or is he a dockers and button down shirt man?' Yet another 'does he listen to hip-hop or classical?' Then there's the 'does he pray and oppose abortion' contingent.

eazyb81
04-14-2008, 08:57 AM
What about people that are fiscally conservative and socially liberal?

StcChief
04-14-2008, 10:09 AM
of course they are the "middle independents" that change in every election.

they aren't very vocal.