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View Full Version : perfect example of why our economy is tanking....


penguinz
04-10-2008, 09:06 AM
We've been hearing tales of suburban McGhost-Towns that were submerged by a tidal wave of foreclosures at the height of the subprime meltdown and are now just sitting there, the lawns turning brown one by one.

Tess Vigeland from Marketplace Money found one of these mythical towns and interviewed some of the residents. With so many houses standing empty, one of the few remaining families has decided to stop paying their mortgage. You might expect tears, but the Sinclairs say it feels "great" to be living rent free with a "bank full of money":

Sinclair: If they reduced our interest rate back to 4.25, we might be able to make the payments, but I don't think we're going to.
Vigeland: Now, why not?

Sinclair: We would do it if the equity was there, but in a case where we're already so behind... Imagine that for five years, say, we're gonna pay four grand a month and then we're just gonna be back up at what we bought the house for. We feel like we're throwing away money.

The Sinclairs say they want to take responsibility for their debts, but right now it makes more financial sense not to.

Sinclair: I mean, you ask a good question. Is it really the right thing to do to let the mortgage companies take up the difference? That's a really tough ethical question.

Dan says he experienced the various stages of grief, including denial and anger. Now he's just relieved.

Sinclair: We went through months of being skinflints, because we knew that we were going into the red, so we didn't buy anything. All the sudden, we had a bank full of money and we're living rent-free, but we know that's not really our money.

Vigeland: How does that feel?

Esmeralda Sinclair: Great! Like he said, we were so tight with money...

Dan: It does feel great, because all the sudden, we feel like we have a little margin now where we can go out to dinner, get a babysitter...

Vigeland: But you're not paying your mortgage. You're not paying the biggest obligation you have. How does that feel good?

Esmeralda: We already went through the guilt. This is really what we need to do, not what we wanted to do, but what we need to do.

http://consumerist.com/378108/life-in-a-subprime-ghost-town-not-paying-the-mortgage-feels-great

xbarretx
04-10-2008, 09:10 AM
I think no response is necessary on that one :shrug: however, I would pseudo side with the homeowners in that case. The market correction needs to continue and weed out all the :cuss: loans that were given out. on the other hand..people need to take responsibility for making bad decisions and the people who arent paying need to lose everything. you make your bed you sleep in it!

Dartgod
04-10-2008, 09:11 AM
Our our guberment wants to bail these idiots out. :shake:

Frazod
04-10-2008, 09:12 AM
Nice. I hope they get a lovely box to live in with their brats when the mortgage company finally gets around to kicking their deadbeat asses out on the street.

Dartgod
04-10-2008, 09:13 AM
Nice. I hope they get a lovely box to live in with their brats when the mortgage company finally gets around to kicking their deadbeat asses out on the street.
C'mon Fraz! The mememe's of the world want us to feel sorry for these people and offer a helping hand.

Radar Chief
04-10-2008, 09:15 AM
C'mon Fraz! The mememe's of the world want us to feel sorry for these people and offer a helping hand.

It’s everyone else’s fault they’re in this trouble anyway.

El Jefe
04-10-2008, 09:15 AM
Nice. I hope they get a lovely box to live in with their brats when the mortgage company finally gets around to kicking their deadbeat asses out on the street.

QFT

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 09:44 AM
Always look on the bright side of life *whistles*
Not bailing them out means, a lot more affordable homes for millions more.

StcChief
04-10-2008, 09:48 AM
thanks CALIFORNIA I guess it's not the place be. /Jed Clampett

oldandslow
04-10-2008, 09:48 AM
People like this might make us crazy, but are they any worse than the greedy bastards who gave people like this the loans to begin with.

It is gonna cost me more in tax dollars to bail out the bear-stearns of the world than what these piss-ants are billing.

Swanman
04-10-2008, 09:51 AM
Sure, the mortgage companies gave out mortgages that people couldn't afford after a certain point, but that's on the consumer to know on the front-end what the deal is. I was offered all kinds of 3-4% interest-only loans when I bought my house 4 years ago, but I was smart enough to realize that after a certain number of years, there would be a balloon payment due and there was no rate cap on the potential interest rate increase.

The bailout just pisses me off. You should not reward people that make idiotic short-sighted decisions.

There was a sob story on CNN recently about a woman that lost her job and couldn't afford to pay her mortgage. I started feeling sorry for her until I read that she bought a $500,000 house on a salary of $70k.

Swanman
04-10-2008, 09:52 AM
Always look on the bright side of life *whistles*
Not bailing them out means, a lot more affordable homes for millions more.

I'm going to be in the market for a house in the next couple years, so part of me is loving this whole thing. It could shave a couple hundred grand off the price of house in Chicagoland.

StcChief
04-10-2008, 09:53 AM
Sure, the mortgage companies gave out mortgages that people couldn't afford after a certain point, but that's on the consumer to know on the front-end what the deal is. I was offered all kinds of 3-4% interest-only loans when I bought my house 4 years ago, but I was smart enough to realize that after a certain number of years, there would be a balloon payment due and there was no rate cap on the potential interest rate increase.

The bailout just pisses me off. You should not reward people that make idiotic short-sighted decisions.

There was a sob story on CNN recently about a woman that lost her job and couldn't afford to pay her mortgage. I started feeling sorry for her until I read that she bought a $500,000 house on a salary of $70k.

the overpriced crap in CA is the biggest real estate scam, I't been going on forever.

Brock
04-10-2008, 09:54 AM
Lesson for those who pay their bills: You're suckers.

Bob Dole
04-10-2008, 09:55 AM
Sure, the mortgage companies gave out mortgages that people couldn't afford after a certain point, but that's on the consumer to know on the front-end what the deal is. I was offered all kinds of 3-4% interest-only loans when I bought my house 4 years ago, but I was smart enough to realize that after a certain number of years, there would be a balloon payment due and there was no rate cap on the potential interest rate increase.

The bailout just pisses me off. You should not reward people that make idiotic short-sighted decisions.

There was a sob story on CNN recently about a woman that lost her job and couldn't afford to pay her mortgage. I started feeling sorry for her until I read that she bought a $500,000 house on a salary of $70k.

Or the one CBS had on that got divorced and remained in the house that she and her husband had been buying, then took out a second to remodel, then refinanced both into one of those interest-only mortgages 5 years ago.

Boo ****ing hoo... You lived beyond your means and now you have to move into something you can actually afford. So sad, you stupid bitch.

Bill Lundberg
04-10-2008, 09:58 AM
I'm going to be in the market for a house in the next couple years, so part of me is loving this whole thing. It could shave a couple hundred grand off the price of house in Chicagoland.

It will also shave a couple hundred grand off of the sale price of your existing home.

Radar Chief
04-10-2008, 10:02 AM
Lesson for those who pay their bills: You're suckers.

QFT. Sadley. :shake:

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 10:08 AM
People like this might make us crazy, but are they any worse than the greedy bastards who gave people like this the loans to begin with.

It is gonna cost me more in tax dollars to bail out the bear-stearns of the world than what these piss-ants are billing.

That's right. It's just a matter of robbing us, for our own good of course.:grr:

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 10:09 AM
It will also shave a couple hundred grand off of the sale price of your existing home.

Not if your a first time house buyer.

jiveturkey
04-10-2008, 10:12 AM
Is the gov really bailing these people out?

I'm still pissed that rates keep dropping and my savings account is getting is ass handed to it. Economy boosters never seem to do anything for billing paying suckers like my wife and I.

Mr. Laz
04-10-2008, 10:26 AM
wow ..... GOP BJ's all-around

Bill Lundberg
04-10-2008, 10:29 AM
Not if your a first time house buyer.

Right. I'm assuming he is a homeowner now since he said he bought a house 4 years ago. Please try to pay attention :)

markk
04-10-2008, 10:34 AM
this bailout is going to be just like katrina where everyone complains that aid isnt coming fast enough so they just hand it out to anyone and everyone abuses it.

bottom line, dont live beyond your means

PhillyChiefFan
04-10-2008, 10:36 AM
I feel sympathetic for them, but honestly they took on something that I wouldn't in a million years. From an economic standpoint, they should get everything that is coming for them, but so should the mortgage companies that risked basically everything by taking the chance on subprime mortgages.

It makes me furious that now all of the sudden, the taxpayers and mortgage payers of this country now are going to basically be digging the greedy a*sholes of Bear Stearns, out of the dirt.

On that note, I believe that stuff like this should be drilled into HIGH SCHOOL students heads. If it wouldn't be for my dad teaching me everything I needed to know about finances and that large purchases should be made with a firm financial grounding, I would be financially illiterate.

For the most part, students coming out of High School are CLUELESS to the pitfalls of the financial world. Credit cards are the devil, and don't buy it if you couldn't pay for it in cash. Unless is it for good credit i.e. a house WITHIN YOUR MEANS!!! that is all.

PhillyChiefFan
04-10-2008, 10:37 AM
bottom line, dont live beyond your means

Exactly!! :clap:

Frosty
04-10-2008, 10:39 AM
bottom line, dont live beyond your means

What!!! That's downright unamerican! :cuss:




;)

Psyko Tek
04-10-2008, 10:39 AM
it's not so much these idiots that piss me off, though they do
it's the government bailing out the financial institutes.

if my business tanks 'cause I do stupid things, Like give loans to people who can't afford it, I am just screwed

that's what really pisses me off

didn't anybody see this coming?
or did they just see a quick way to make a buck and screw the guy whose gotta clean up their mess

Radar Chief
04-10-2008, 10:44 AM
wow ..... GOP BJ's all-around

:eek: The "left", ladies and gentlemen.

Brock
04-10-2008, 10:48 AM
wow ..... GOP BJ's all-around

Got your chapstick ready?

PhillyChiefFan
04-10-2008, 10:59 AM
it's not so much these idiots that piss me off, though they do
it's the government bailing out the financial institutes.

if my business tanks 'cause I do stupid things, Like give loans to people who can't afford it, I am just screwed

that's what really pisses me off

didn't anybody see this coming?
or did they just see a quick way to make a buck and screw the guy whose gotta clean up their mess

Yea, and Bear Stearns CEO is saying that they "have to be saved to save the economy", how sad is that? They made piss pour decisions and drove their company into the ground and Johnny Q. Taxpayer has to clean up their mistake. For the sake of future generations I HOPE Wall Street learned a lesson and won't make such stupid mistakes again. But they probably will, maybe not in real estate but somewhere.

Fish
04-10-2008, 10:59 AM
http://www.youwalkaway.com/

Geez...........

PhillyChiefFan
04-10-2008, 11:03 AM
http://www.youwalkaway.com/

Geez...........

Beautiful!!! So now we are telling our kids that its ok not to face your obligations and that with the wave of a wand it can be wiped away. Someone has to pay for it, why should it be me?!?! :deevee:

wow...

Dartgod
04-10-2008, 11:13 AM
Beautiful!!! So now we are telling our kids that its ok not to face your obligations and that with the wave of a wand it can be wiped away. Someone has to pay for it, why should it be me?!?! :deevee:

wow...
We've created this society of personal irresponsibility and it doesn't end with these fools that borrowed beyond their means. Its everywhere!

Swanman
04-10-2008, 11:19 AM
It will also shave a couple hundred grand off of the sale price of your existing home.

The nice part for me is that I'm in a townhome now that is much cheaper than the house I'm looking to buy, so the decrease in price of the home I plan to buy will be much greater than the drop in price of my townhome. You'd be exactly right if the move is more lateral in price.

PhillyChiefFan
04-10-2008, 11:19 AM
Like Credit Card use? I know when I graduated college I had over 1500 in debt and I was pissed at myself! My friend who graduated with me laughed I said why how much are you in:
...21,000...without student loans included. Then he went out and bought a brand new Honda Civic.

Swanman
04-10-2008, 11:21 AM
I heard a little while back that Hillary was campaigning for a 90-day moratorium on foreclosures. That's great for those 90 days, but on day 91, there will be about 3 trillion foreclosures. She acts like the idiots that are living beyond their means will magically become more wealthy in 90 days to be able to afford their homes (which is especially idiotic given the downward trend of the economy).

Stewie
04-10-2008, 11:25 AM
They're just using the Wall Street method of finance. Where are the Bear Stearns people who packaged these sub-prime loans and made $millions in bonuses and profit? Bear just has friends in high places that will cover their ass using your tax dollars.

Tuesday, April 8th, 2008
Jim Rogers: More Pain for the Greenback, and the Failure of the Federal Reserve
By Keith Fitz-Gerald
Investment Director
Money Morning/The Money Map Report


SINGAPORE - By bailing out Wall Street and applying "band-aids" to the economy, the U.S. Federal Reserve may well be causing its own downfall - even as it hastens the demise of the greenback as a viable global currency, investment guru Jim Rogers told Money Morning during an exclusive interview.

Because of such strategic missteps, U.S. consumers could be facing a long and painful economic malaise, similar to the "lost decade" of 1990s Japan, or the stagflation-riddled 1970s in the United States, Rogers said.
Make no mistake: If that happens, there are two clear culprits - current Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, and his predecessor, Alan Greenspan.
Bernanke "and Greenspan together will probably bring [about] the end of the Federal Reserve," Rogers said during the interview in Singapore. "We’ve had two central banks in America that failed [and] this third central bank will probably fail, too, because of Bernanke and Greenspan. The Federal Reserve [just] put $200 billion more onto its balance sheet of mortgages. Now I don’t know how big they can expand their balance sheet, but if they keep doing it, there’s only so much - and they just bought Bear Stearns (BSC)."

Rogers first made a name for himself with The Quantum Fund, a hedge fund that’s often described as the first real global investment fund, which he and partner George Soros founded in 1970. Over the next decade, Quantum gained 4,200%, while the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index climbed about 50%.

It was after Rogers "retired" in 1980 that the investing masses got to see him in action. Rogers traveled the world (several times), and penned such bestsellers as "Investment Biker" and the just-released "Bull in China." And he made some historic market calls: Rogers predicted China’s meteoric growth a good decade before it became apparent and he subsequently foretold of the powerful updraft in global commodities prices that’s fueled a year-long bull market in the agriculture, energy and mining sectors.
Given Rogers’ prescience - not to mention all the uncertainty facing U.S. investors right now - we thought it was well worth a sit-down with the noted guru, even though it meant traveling all the way to Singapore, where he now lives with his family, to do so.


During that interview here in Singapore, Rogers also said that:
Although the United States faces perhaps its most daunting economic challenges in at least a generation, "in America, most people do not understand that there is a problem."
Because of these weak-dollar efforts - as well as the billion-dollar bailouts - "America is now the largest debtor the world has ever seen."
Although the central bank seems intent on engineering a U.S. economic rebound by creating an ultra-weak dollar, no country in history has ever emerged from a serious financial crisis by "debasing its currency."The bottom line: The strategies that the central bank is currently employing are nothing short of "outrageous," Rogers said.
"You know, I’ve read the Federal Reserve Act," he said. "Nowhere does it say [the central bank is] supposed to bail out investment banks! Nowhere does it say you should bail out Wall Street. Their mandate was to have a sound currency, and then it was later expanded to have employment - to help employment. But nowhere does it say: ‘Bail out investment banks.’"
Let’s take a look at some of the highlights of the Money Morning interview with investor and author Jim Rogers.

Keith Fitz-Gerald (Q): There’s a confluence of money flowing into and around China. Do you believe that the U.S., with all its current problems, will get left out?

Jim Rogers: Absolutely.

The U.S. dollar is a terribly flawed currency. I’m trying to get all of my money out of U.S. dollars. I don’t know why anybody would put money into the U.S. dollar, and by extension into the U.S., as we stand here today. The U.S. is probably the largest debtor nation the world has ever seen!

The United States’ foreign debts are increasing at the rate of $1 trillion U.S. dollars every 15 months. U.S. foreign debt is over $13 trillion, and rising rapidly. It’s the official policy of the central bank to debase the currency. They’re trying to drive down the value of the dollar.

Q: The government has succeeded wildly, so far.
Rogers: You haven’t seen anything yet!
They’re trying to drive down the dollar. I’m trying to be patriotic. I’m trying to sell dollars. That’s what they want. I’m trying to help them drive down the value of the currency.

All Americans should. There are certainly probably good reasons to put some money in dollars. For instance, if you have to buy cotton, you have to have dollars.

But for the most part - I, anyway - am joining other people who’re trying to avoid the U.S. dollar, because Washington has sent a very clear signal: "We want the dollar to decline. We’re gonna do our best to make it decline."

Well, everybody has to make their own decision. I’m trying to do what the Federal Reserve wants me to do, and I’m selling dollars.

Q: My take is that former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan and current Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke may go down as the worst central bank chairmen in history. Do you see it differently?

Rogers: and Greenspan together will probably bring [about] the end of the Federal Reserve. We’ve had two central banks in America that failed. This third central bank will probably fail, too, because of Bernanke and Greenspan.

The Federal Reserve last week put $200 billion more onto its balance sheet of mortgages. Now I don’t know how big they can expand their balance sheet, but if they keep doing it, there’s only so much - [and] they just bought Bear Stearns.

There’s just so much they can do. Maybe that balance sheet is infinite. I doubt it. And it can be said to be infinite; they just print money like Zimbabwe or someplace. But that has to come to an end, eventually.
Maybe Bernanke is going to get into his helicopter and fly around collecting rents now. Maybe when they repossess all the property, he’s going to be the rent collector. But then when they eventually take on all the car loans, I guess he’s going to be collecting car payments, too. And credit card debt, when they take over all the credit card payments, I guess he’ll be hauling us all out saying: "Your credit card’s overdue."
This is insanity.

[B]Q: Is there a circumstance under which you could see the U.S. recovering, or do you think this country is doomed to be an economic also-ran?

Rogers: Historically, nations that have gotten themselves into this kind of situation have only gotten out following a crisis or a semi-crisis, or some gigantic stroke of luck.

The U.K. got out because they discovered the North Sea. Now you give me the largest oil field in the world, or one of the largest oil fields in the world, I’ll show you a good time, too.

So if you have a stroke of luck [you can escape these kinds of problems], but otherwise, nobody’s ever sorted out these problems without some kind of gigantic crisis or semi-crisis first.

In America, most people do not understand there is a problem! The few who know there’s something going on don’t understand what it is. Most of them who understand it actually think it’s good that the currency’s declining. America’s not going to do anything until things get very, very bad.

Others that offer the rejoinder to this - that the declining dollar makes America competitive - [that] has worked in the short term. But no country has ever restored itself by debasing its currency, not in the long term, not even the medium term.

Many places have tried to debase their currency as a solution. It’s never worked, other than maybe in the short-term, for a while.

Q: Are we looking at a Japanese-style lost economic decade?
Rogers: The Federal Reserve is making the same mistakes that the Japanese made. They’re trying to say: "We won’t let anybody fail. We’ll print a lot of money. We’ll drive interest rates to zero. And we don’t want anybody to fail. We’ll put on as many Band-Aids as we have to."
Well, putting Band-Aids on a cancer patient is not a good solution.
So whether it’s like the ’90s in Japan, or the ’70s in America, remains to be seen.

[One-time U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman] Arthur Burns, who headed the central bank in the ’70s, did exactly what Bernanke’s doing. He raced in and printed money and said: "Oh, everything’s gonna be OK."
But the economy never recovered, inflation went through the roof, and the dollar was under duress. Eventually they had to bring in Paul Volcker and interest rates went over 20%. And eventually they killed inflation and they solved the problem.

They’re making exactly the same mistakes that Burns made. For whatever reason, though, this problem is going to last longer than previous difficulties in America. And it’s probably going to be worse.

Because, now, America is a debtor nation. Now we’re the largest debtor nation in the world. At least in the ’70s, we were still a creditor nation. Japan could survive because they were the largest creditor in the world at the time. So they didn’t fall off the face of the earth.

America’s now the largest debtor the world has ever seen. What’s happening in the U.S. is not going to be fun.

Q: Should the Fed be stepping in like it has in recent months?

Rogers: It’s outrageous that Bernanke’s sitting there. You know, I’ve read the Federal Reserve Act. Nowhere does it say [the central bank is] supposed to bail out investment banks! Nowhere does it say you should bail out Wall Street. Their mandate was to have a sound currency, and then it was later expanded to have employment - to help employment. But nowhere does it say: ‘Bail out investment banks.’

Investment banks have been failing for centuries. The world hasn’t come to an end… even when investment banks have failed. They just caused a setback, and so what!

Recessions are usually good for the system. They clean out the excesses. And my God there’ve been excesses on Wall Street in the past 10 years. You don’t see a bunch of 29-year-old cotton farmers driving around in Maseratis and flying in private planes to exotic locations. Well, you see a lot of guys on Wall Street doing that.

And the idea that we’re now supposed to bail them out is ludicrous! I don’t see any of those guys sending their bonus checks back.

Huge amounts were made in the debt markets. We now know [that money was made] at least incorrectly, if not fraudulently, and yet, now we’re supposed to bail them out. It’s bad enough they get to keep their money. But the outrageous part is that it will cost more to try to prevent a recession than to have the recession.

We have safety nets in place, now. We did in the ’70s in America and the Japanese did in the ’90s. I think there’s good evidence that it will cost more to try to prevent the problems than to have the problems.

Q: That’s a very interesting thought that had not occurred to me before.

Rogers: Well, we’ll see if it’s right. In nature, there’s the natural phenomenon of forest fires. The forest fires are pretty terrible when they’re going on. But nature invented them to clean out the forest so that the forest could then come and grow from a new, sound foundation. That’s what recessions do, too. They’re a natural phenomenon.
Nobody likes it when we have them any more than anybody likes a forest fire. But in the end, everybody’s better off. Bernanke thinks he can stop this; he’s going to very well destroy the system by trying to save it.

Q: Could you see a segment of the financial system surviving this? Or do you think that there will be such catastrophic change that we won’t recognize it till several years from now?

Rogers: Ask me again in five years, 10 years. That was true after the ’30s, certainly. It was true even after the ’60s. Very few people went to Wall Street in the ’70s, very few. A whole generation ignored Wall Street in the ’30s and in the ’70s.

Will that happen again? Probably, because of things we’ve been discussing.

So there will be big changes, of course. If you’re in the field that deals with - and works out - bankruptcies, you’ve got a great future - on Wall Street, or in the legal profession. If you’re in commodities, you have a great future. Some sectors of the financial community are going to do well. Many others are going to disappear and/or do badly.

Q: How low could the dollar go?

Rogers: I have no idea. You just have to watch it as it evolves. Politicians and bureaucrats can do unbelievably stupid things, and have [done so] throughout history.

They will usually do things that are so stupid nobody can believe them, but it happens. You have to watch and see as it goes.

Amnorix
04-10-2008, 11:30 AM
No reaosn for them to pay the mortgage. Bank should bounce them. Everyone needs to cut their losses.

A market economy assumes everyone does that which is financially reasonable for them. Continuing to pay that mortgage is silly.

They were stupid to buy it, and the bank was stupid to extend them to that level.

Amnorix
04-10-2008, 11:36 AM
Oh, and P.S., this doesn't really tie into why the economy is in trouble. Perhaps I should say it this way -- what you posted is more about an EFFECT of our economic troubles, than a CAUSE, but it is somewhat cyclical of course.

Amnorix
04-10-2008, 11:38 AM
They're just using the Wall Street method of finance. Where are the Bear Stearns people who packaged these sub-prime loans and made $millions in bonuses and profit? Bear just has friends in high places that will cover their ass using your tax dollars.

Tuesday, April 8th, 2008
Jim Rogers: More Pain for the Greenback, and the Failure of the Federal Reserve
By Keith Fitz-Gerald
Investment Director
Money Morning/The Money Map Report


SINGAPORE - By bailing out Wall Street and applying "band-aids" to the economy, the U.S. Federal Reserve may well be causing its own downfall - even as it hastens the demise of the greenback as a viable global currency, investment guru Jim Rogers told Money Morning during an exclusive interview.

Because of such strategic missteps, U.S. consumers could be facing a long and painful economic malaise, similar to the "lost decade" of 1990s Japan, or the stagflation-riddled 1970s in the United States, Rogers said.
Make no mistake: If that happens, there are two clear culprits - current Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, and his predecessor, Alan Greenspan.
Bernanke "and Greenspan together will probably bring [about] the end of the Federal Reserve," Rogers said during the interview in Singapore. "We’ve had two central banks in America that failed [and] this third central bank will probably fail, too, because of Bernanke and Greenspan. The Federal Reserve [just] put $200 billion more onto its balance sheet of mortgages. Now I don’t know how big they can expand their balance sheet, but if they keep doing it, there’s only so much - and they just bought Bear Stearns (BSC)."



And the economic mismanagement of the federal budget is lbameless. BULLS**T!! Structural deficits hurt hte economy and the strenght of the dollar. As much as anything else, the Fed tries to fix weaknesses caused by federal budgetary mismaangement.

Stewie
04-10-2008, 11:40 AM
And the economic mismanagement of the federal budget is lbameless. BULLS**T!! Structural deficits hurt hte economy and the strenght of the dollar. As much as anything else, the Fed tries to fix weaknesses caused by federal budgetary mismaangement.

I think you need to re-read what he's saying.

Carlota69
04-10-2008, 11:41 AM
When I bought my home a couple of years ago, my mortgage and real estate agent told me that they got me the payment I needed, but it was going to cost me a few thousand a year. I asked how much? They said no more than 3k a year tacked onto my loan. They also said that I had 3 years before the arm would hit and I would be able refinance before it came. I've refinanced before, I understand that process and thought I could do it.

I DID NOT go to school or have ANY training in the real estate or Mortgage business. I trusted those who have. I trusted those who supposedly understand all the numbers and crap. If you can't trust those who work in that industry and understand the ins and outs of the biz, who can you trust?

I was the perfect person to prey upon. I have a busy life and I understand my business, but I left it up to them to give me the real deal about theirs and my purchase.

Huge mistake on my part.

I found out, after it was too late, that all the homes around my home (In a brand new neighborhood--the home across the stret wasn'teven finshed), were in foreclosure and my property value has dropped dramatically. My home, which was 333k, is now worth maybe 150k. Plus, the lender took my entire downpayment and didnt apply it to my loan (that numbers thing I dont understand). So instead of my loan balance being around 317k, after downpayment, it was 333k still, after one year. And it was going up not 2-3k a year, but more like 17k a year. Again, I didnt understand the math, and they told me the 2-3k number while they were supposed to be showing me "truth in lending"

Also I bought a brand new home, in a brand new neighborhood. Becasue of the foreclosures around me, the people who could afford to live there were , shall we call them gang-bangers? i had 2 shootings on my street withing 2 months of living there ( there were only 4 homes on my street BTW). Homes around me were getting broken into left and right. I would drive to my home and see cars sitting in the street with their windows shot out. It was like Escape from NY.

So, not only am I in a bad loan, not only am I 160k under in my BRAND NEW HOME IN MY BRAND NEW NEIGHBORHOOD (and I mean my house was only 6 months old), but now I live in a dangerous area?

I'm a single woman, living alone.

What would you do?

My lender, told me to walk away. he told me it was my only choice. "Stop the bleeding" is exactly what he told me to do.

Oh, and we aren't being bailed out--yet anyways. But I love how the banks are.

markk
04-10-2008, 11:43 AM
i agree with that. these people are idiots for buying more than they can afford or signing something they dont understand, but if the bank isn't going to throw them out why wouldn't they stay there with no rent? of course they are going to.

based on how happy they are to have money in their checking while defaulting on a loan of 100 times that much... i think we will probably see these people in bankruptcy court at least once more in their lifetimes.

i wish them best of luck with their walmart greeter positions at age 87

SBK
04-10-2008, 11:44 AM
This kind of stuff is why anyone who tells you we're near the bottom is either a:lying or b: a realtor.

And if they're b: a realtor you can be sure that they are a: lying no matter what they're telling you. LMAO

Brock
04-10-2008, 11:46 AM
What would you do?

My lender, told me to walk away. he told me it was my only choice. "Stop the bleeding" is exactly what he told me to do.

Oh, and we aren't being bailed out--yet anyways. But I love how the banks are.


Burn it down.

stumppy
04-10-2008, 11:47 AM
The worthless bastaiges were/are probably smoking in the house anyways.

Carlota69
04-10-2008, 11:47 AM
Burn it down.

LOL--My brother offered to do that. I'm not going too--but what a thought.

SBK
04-10-2008, 11:48 AM
When I bought my home a couple of years ago, my mortgage and real estate agent told me that they got me the payment I needed, but it was going to cost me a few thousand a year. I asked how much? They said no more than 3k a year tacked onto my loan. They also said that I had 3 years before the arm would hit and I would be able refinance before it came. I've refinanced before, I understand that process and thought I could do it.

I DID NOT go to school or have ANY training in the real estate or Mortgage business. I trusted those who have. I trusted those who supposedly understand all the numbers and crap. If you can't trust those who work in that industry and understand the ins and outs of the biz, who can you trust?

I was the perfect person to prey upon. I have a busy life and I understand my business, but I left it up to them to give me the real deal about theirs and my purchase.

Huge mistake on my part.

I found out, after it was too late, that all the homes around my home (In a brand new neighborhood--the home across the stret wasn'teven finshed), were in foreclosure and my property value has dropped dramatically. My home, which was 333k, is now worth maybe 150k. Plus, the lender took my entire downpayment and didnt apply it to my loan (that numbers thing I dont understand). So instead of my loan balance being around 317k, after downpayment, it was 333k still, after one year. And it was going up not 2-3k a year, but more like 17k a year. Again, I didnt understand the math, and they told me the 2-3k number while they were supposed to be showing me "truth in lending"

Also I bought a brand new home, in a brand new neighborhood. Becasue of the foreclosures around me, the people who could afford to live there were , shall we call them gang-bangers? i had 2 shootings on my street withing 2 months of living there ( there were only 4 homes on my street BTW). Homes around me were getting broken into left and right. I would drive to my home and see cars sitting in the street with their windows shot out. It was like Escape from NY.

So, not only am I in a bad loan, not only am I 160k under in my BRAND NEW HOME IN MY BRAND NEW NEIGHBORHOOD (and I mean my house was only 6 months old), but now I live in a dangerous area?

I'm a single woman, living alone.

What would you do?

My lender, told me to walk away. he told me it was my only choice. "Stop the bleeding" is exactly what he told me to do.

Oh, and we aren't being bailed out--yet anyways. But I love how the banks are.

The lesson in this, that all of us get at some point in our lives is that you cannot take advice from someone that is selling you something. For your realtors and mortgage brokers they made A LOT of money, so their interest wasn't you, it was your money. Tough lesson for each of us, and more expensive for some than for others.

Yes, it's dirty, but I would be confident you won't find yourself in this situation again.

Carlota69
04-10-2008, 11:53 AM
The lesson in this, that all of us get at some point in our lives is that you cannot take advice from someone that is selling you something. For your realtors and mortgage brokers they made A LOT of money, so their interest wasn't you, it was your money. Tough lesson for each of us, and more expensive for some than for others.

Yes, it's dirty, but I would be confident you won't find yourself in this situation again.

No, never again. I learned a very difficult lesson. And yes, they are people taking advantage of the situation, banks and customers alike. But some of us aren't. We made a bad decision, took bad advice, and got ****ed. And now we pay the consequences. My lender is unwilling to work with me regarding this home. They dont care. They aren't bailing me out, even though they are getting bailed out.

Point being, not all of us who are going thru this are raping the system. I'm certainly not. But I am getting raped.

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 11:59 AM
I really feel for you Carlota.
I added up one day what one pays to a bank for a home, and you pay a heck of a lot over the value of a home even when not in a speculative market.

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 12:00 PM
This kind of stuff is why anyone who tells you we're near the bottom is either a:lying or b: a realtor.

And if they're b: a realtor you can be sure that they are a: lying no matter what they're telling you. LMAO

Yup! I agree.

Amnorix
04-10-2008, 12:02 PM
I really feel for you Carlota.
I added up one day what one pays to a bank for a home, and you pay a heck of a lot over the value of a home even when not in a speculative market.


Rule of thumb is 2x the loan amount for a 15 year mortgage, and 3x for a 30.

But why that's unfair or unethical I've no idea. Especially at current rates which are fairly low by historical standards.

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 12:02 PM
They're just using the Wall Street method of finance. Where are the Bear Stearns people who packaged these sub-prime loans and made $millions in bonuses and profit? Bear just has friends in high places that will cover their ass using your tax dollars.

Yup! And the new regs being concocted are sowing the seeds for the next crisis.

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 12:05 PM
Rule of thumb is 2x the loan amount for a 15 year mortgage, and 3x for a 30.

But why that's unfair or unethical I've no idea. Especially at current rates which are fairly low by historical standards.

Because it's an opinion. You do know that an opinion is neither right or wrong to all but depends on what one wants out of something, right?

I don't like paying a lot of interest. I played my cards smart. Lived in a 3 family in Boston in a hot market, and transferred that to a lot more house for a lot less and hardly any mortgage. And I don't buy the tax write-off benefit either. Bottom line: You never save more than you spend.

Chiefmanwillcatch
04-10-2008, 12:07 PM
This whole subprime bullshit is directly correlated to low affordable loans to buy homes for blacks.

Congress pushed this legislation. The democrats were behind this.

We are paying for SOCIALISM.

Carlota69
04-10-2008, 12:09 PM
I really feel for you Carlota.
I added up one day what one pays to a bank for a home, and you pay a heck of a lot over the value of a home even when not in a speculative market.

And thats the thing. The average person doesnt know that. And I am the average person.

I was talking to a mortgage lender recently and we chatted about all this crap. He asked me how am I suppose to understand the mortgage industry, being in a completely different field? It took him 8 months of full blown studying it before he truly knew it. How am I with no training?

I love how people like me are called stupid. Granted, it wont happen again, but I dont know how to fix an engine. I have to trust the mechanic to tell me the truth about my car. I dont know how to read a Xray. I have to trust the doctor to tell me what it says. I dont know how to fuile alawsuit. I have to trust a lawyer for that. Does that make me stupid?

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 12:13 PM
And thats the thing. The average person doesnt know that. And I am the average person.

I was talking to a mortgage lender recently and we chatted about all this crap. He asked me how am I suppose to understand the mortgage industry, being in a completely different field? It took him 8 months of full blown studying it before he truly knew it. How am I with no training?

I love how people like me are called stupid. Granted, it wont happen again, but I dont know how to fix an engine. I have to trust the mechanic to tell me the truth about my car. I dont know how to read a Xray. I have to trust the doctor to tell me what it says. I dont know how to fuile alawsuit. I have to trust a lawyer for that. Does that make me stupid?

You got taken. I think the other side is guilty. However, it's not rocket science to add up the interest. The thing most didn't understand was that it was a speculative market. People think if they don't buy now at such great low interest they'll be left out. I'm just too darn conservative to take a risk for an adjustable rate on such things. In fact I only lived on 20% of my own income before I had a kid.

Carlota69
04-10-2008, 12:21 PM
You got taken. I think the other side is guilty. However, it's not rocket science to add up the interest. The thing most didn't understand was that it was a speculative market. People think if they don't buy now at such great low interest they'll be left out. I'm just too darn conservative to take a risk for an adjustable rate on such things. In fact I only lived on 20% of my own income before I had a kid.

Believe me, I will not be had again. I learned my lesson, and I will pay for it. But, I'm not a mathmetician. When those numbers popped up, I was told a different story. Since numbers are German to me, I believed what I was told.

never again.

SBK
04-10-2008, 12:23 PM
No, never again. I learned a very difficult lesson. And yes, they are people taking advantage of the situation, banks and customers alike. But some of us aren't. We made a bad decision, took bad advice, and got ****ed. And now we pay the consequences. My lender is unwilling to work with me regarding this home. They dont care. They aren't bailing me out, even though they are getting bailed out.

Point being, not all of us who are going thru this are raping the system. I'm certainly not. But I am getting raped.

If your bank had a brain they'd redo your loan to the value of the house and call it a day. That way they'd avoid a foreclosure---since they're going to lose either way.

But this is a bank we're talking about. They can lose big and just wait on Congress to pay em back.

Carlota69
04-10-2008, 12:28 PM
If your bank had a brain they'd redo your loan to the value of the house and call it a day. That way they'd avoid a foreclosure---since they're going to lose either way.

But this is a bank we're talking about. They can lose big and just wait on Congress to pay em back.

Exactly. And whats funny is this bank is the one who is suffering the most--American Home Mortgage. I dont get it either.

Amnorix
04-10-2008, 12:55 PM
Because it's an opinion. You do know that an opinion is neither right or wrong to all but depends on what one wants out of something, right?

I don't like paying a lot of interest. I played my cards smart. Lived in a 3 family in Boston in a hot market, and transferred that to a lot more house for a lot less and hardly any mortgage. And I don't buy the tax write-off benefit either. Bottom line: You never save more than you spend.

Nobody enjoys paying interest, and regardless of tax write offs, etc., it's true that you never save more than you spend on any tax break.

Obviously, debt avoidance is a good thing, especially at onerous rates such as CC debt.

Selling a house in Boston and moving to nearly anywhere else in the US is often going to get you more house for less. Of course, you probably had less income elsewhere, too, but your cost of living was likely alot lower too. It's something people in the Northeast do frequently, hwich is why people are steadily moving south and west. That and the cold.... :D

Chiefmanwillcatch
04-10-2008, 01:01 PM
When I bought my home a couple of years ago, my mortgage and real estate agent told me that they got me the payment I needed, but it was going to cost me a few thousand a year. I asked how much? They said no more than 3k a year tacked onto my loan. They also said that I had 3 years before the arm would hit and I would be able refinance before it came. I've refinanced before, I understand that process and thought I could do it.

I DID NOT go to school or have ANY training in the real estate or Mortgage business. I trusted those who have. I trusted those who supposedly understand all the numbers and crap. If you can't trust those who work in that industry and understand the ins and outs of the biz, who can you trust?

I was the perfect person to prey upon. I have a busy life and I understand my business, but I left it up to them to give me the real deal about theirs and my purchase.

Huge mistake on my part.

I found out, after it was too late, that all the homes around my home (In a brand new neighborhood--the home across the stret wasn'teven finshed), were in foreclosure and my property value has dropped dramatically. My home, which was 333k, is now worth maybe 150k. Plus, the lender took my entire downpayment and didnt apply it to my loan (that numbers thing I dont understand). So instead of my loan balance being around 317k, after downpayment, it was 333k still, after one year. And it was going up not 2-3k a year, but more like 17k a year. Again, I didnt understand the math, and they told me the 2-3k number while they were supposed to be showing me "truth in lending"

Also I bought a brand new home, in a brand new neighborhood. Becasue of the foreclosures around me, the people who could afford to live there were , shall we call them gang-bangers? i had 2 shootings on my street withing 2 months of living there ( there were only 4 homes on my street BTW). Homes around me were getting broken into left and right. I would drive to my home and see cars sitting in the street with their windows shot out. It was like Escape from NY.

So, not only am I in a bad loan, not only am I 160k under in my BRAND NEW HOME IN MY BRAND NEW NEIGHBORHOOD (and I mean my house was only 6 months old), but now I live in a dangerous area?

I'm a single woman, living alone.

What would you do?

My lender, told me to walk away. he told me it was my only choice. "Stop the bleeding" is exactly what he told me to do.

Oh, and we aren't being bailed out--yet anyways. But I love how the banks are.

Shit Corlata.

Hope everything turns out ok.

and I always wonder what my patience would be with filthy criminal elements in the neighborhood.

Keep a handgun with you.

SBK
04-10-2008, 01:08 PM
Selling a house in Boston and moving to nearly anywhere else in the US is often going to get you more house for less. Of course, you probably had less income elsewhere, too, but your cost of living was likely alot lower too. It's something people in the Northeast do frequently, hwich is why people are steadily moving south and west. That and the cold.... :D

People are fleeing the tax man in the NE to come to the lower/no tax regions of the country. :D

bowener
04-10-2008, 01:12 PM
I dont really have an opinion on the mortgage companies at this moment (too young really) but I have been reading up on my federal income tax and what seems to be coming across is that I dont need to be paying it, neither do you... I am confused by it, so somebody please help me out.

These are some of the things that I come across:
http://www.truthusa.org/articles/irs/irs2004.htm
http://theselfishbitch.wordpress.com/2007/02/23/never-pay-federal-income-tax-again/
http://www.smartvoter.org/1998jun/ca/state/vote/rivera_e/paper1.html

Is this like an urban legend? I wanted to go into law, but may have changed my mind recently, but it is things like this that make me want to go into it. I want to stop people from getting ****ed over something they perceive as being true or something the must do.

Apparently this is a group who filed suit: http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTPLawsuit/InfoCenter.htm

Adept Havelock
04-10-2008, 01:14 PM
I dont really have an opinion on the mortgage companies at this moment (too young really) but I have been reading up on my federal income tax and what seems to be coming across is that I dont need to be paying it, neither do you... I am confused by it, so somebody please help me out.

These are some of the things that I come across:
http://www.truthusa.org/articles/irs/irs2004.htm
http://theselfishbitch.wordpress.com/2007/02/23/never-pay-federal-income-tax-again/
http://www.smartvoter.org/1998jun/ca/state/vote/rivera_e/paper1.html

Is this like an urban legend? I wanted to go into law, but may have changed my mind recently, but it is things like this that make me want to go into it. I want to stop people from getting ****ed over something they perceive as being true or something the must do.

Perform a search on the planet for "alnorth" and "tax protestors". You'll find all the debunkings you need.

bowener
04-10-2008, 01:18 PM
Perform a search on the planet for "alnorth" and "tax protestors". You'll find all the debunkings you need.

Thanks, is it pretty helpful, and incase it doesnt work when I search, is it true?

edit: Also, I think your avatar is pretty ****ing funny! I try and use that argument any time I can in my classes.

Adept Havelock
04-10-2008, 01:19 PM
Thanks, is it pretty helpful, and incase it doesnt work when I search, is it true?

Not true. There's a pretty good discussion of it in this thread back when Wesley Snipes was making this argument.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=179241


edit: Also, I think your avatar is pretty ****ing funny! I try and use that argument any time I can in my classes.


Thank you kindly. I'm very fond of it. :D

If you're familiar with the satirist Terry Pratchett, he's got a great scene in one of his books (The Last Hero) where "Death" is discussing that "thought experiment". It's a classic.

Frazod
04-10-2008, 01:21 PM
Here's some good advice - if you're buying a home, HIRE A F#CKING LAWYER.

The mortgage broker and the realtor make their money up front, whether you're in a deal that will screw you later or not. Their best interests are not tied to your best interests; do NOT take what they tell you at face value. Your attorney, OTOH, works for your best interests alone.

I know most people think lawyers are the debbil, but a lawyer who saves you from getting screwed like Carlota did most assuredly is not.

Amnorix
04-10-2008, 01:28 PM
People are fleeing the tax man in the NE to come to the lower/no tax regions of the country. :D


Actually, Massachusetts (for one) is thoroughly average for the US for overall tax burden. Taxachusetts no more.

RI mgiht be up there a fair bit. Maine and NH are probably at or below average tax burden.

Amnorix
04-10-2008, 01:28 PM
Here's some good advice - if you're buying a home, HIRE A F#CKING LAWYER.

The mortgage broker and the realtor make their money up front, whether you're in a deal that will screw you later or not. Their best interests are not tied to your best interests; do NOT take what they tell you at face value. Your attorney, OTOH, works for your best interests alone.

I know most people think lawyers are the debbil, but a lawyer who saves you from getting screwed like Carlota did most assuredly is not.


What you say is true, but usually lawyers on residential real estate aren't giving financial advice.

Frazod
04-10-2008, 01:30 PM
What you say is true, but usually lawyers on residential real estate aren't giving financial advice.

A good one will, or at least have access to someone who can if you have questions.

Mr. Laz
04-10-2008, 01:33 PM
:eek: The "left", ladies and gentlemen.

hate personal bail outs, but can't get enough corporate bail outs. /GOP

hate social welfare, but love corporate welfare /GOP

SBK
04-10-2008, 01:55 PM
hate personal bail outs, but can't get enough corporate bail outs. /GOP

hate social welfare, but love corporate welfare /GOP

Don't kill criminals, kill unborn children / DNC

Reward laziness, punish hard work and achievement / DNC

Push racist policy in the name of equality / DNC

Always believe your enemies but never trust your own country / DNC

:evil:

Awaiting your negative rep....LMAO

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 02:01 PM
Actually, Massachusetts (for one) is thoroughly average for the US for overall tax burden. Taxachusetts no more.

RI mgiht be up there a fair bit. Maine and NH are probably at or below average tax burden.
Oh well, Mitt just turned some of those taxes into user fees.
I also hear MittCare is becoming a disaster with long waits.
Marxachusettts is a better word, imo.

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 02:06 PM
Nobody enjoys paying interest, and regardless of tax write offs, etc., it's true that you never save more than you spend on any tax break.

Obviously, debt avoidance is a good thing, especially at onerous rates such as CC debt.

Selling a house in Boston and moving to nearly anywhere else in the US is often going to get you more house for less. Of course, you probably had less income elsewhere, too, but your cost of living was likely alot lower too. It's something people in the Northeast do frequently, hwich is why people are steadily moving south and west. That and the cold.... :D

Cold had nothing to do with it for me. I'm a skiier and frankly I'm colder in my home here in winter, with the back being nearly all glass because we're not set up to deal with it. I actually overdress in the mornings when I wake up, then go outside where it's a bit warmer. In fact, I wear an old fur coat for my robe here in the winter. Gotta get some use out of it! ROFL

Stewie
04-10-2008, 02:43 PM
hate personal bail outs, but can't get enough corporate bail outs. /GOP

hate social welfare, but love corporate welfare /GOP

This problem has nothing to do with politics. It's the greed of bankers, and the Fed was all too happy to keep real negative rates. There's also alot of fraud involved in bundling mortgages with credit ratings of AAA that never should have been rated that high.

The Fed, not the government, bailed out (actually bought) Bear Stearns and have continued to bail out others. It doesn't matter if it's the banks or the individual being bailed out, the bank is going to get their money one way or another because the Fed IS the big banks.

Carlota69
04-10-2008, 03:04 PM
Shit Corlata.

Hope everything turns out ok.

and I always wonder what my patience would be with filthy criminal elements in the neighborhood.

Keep a handgun with you.

Thanks. I appreciate the advice and the good wishes.

However, I'm not looking for sympathy. My mistake overall, and I have to pay the consequences. And I will.

Even though I could still live int he home "rent free' so to speak, I chose not too. I'm not about a free ride. I turned the house over to the bank. I decieded the best was to voulntarily turn it over and move. It was a matter of time before the crime element got to me. I wasn't willing to lose more than I already had--if you know what I mean.

My point of sharing my story was to bring to light the plight of someone in my shoes. I hear time and time again about how stupid we are, and somehow, becasue we dont understand the ins and out of the biz, we deserve what we get. I'm not sure how fair that judgement is. And it is a judgement.

Like i said, when I take my car to the mechanic, I have to trust that he knows what he's talking about, becasue I ddint study engines. I thought I could trust my real estate agent. They do have some ethics code. I know that. Mine didnt follow his.

People like me are going to pay the consequences for not understanding. But the real estate, mortgage lenders and banks should as well.

And next time you hear about someone losing their home, maybe you'll reserve judgement, instead of just blindly calling them an idiot.

Amnorix
04-10-2008, 03:10 PM
Oh well, Mitt just turned some of those taxes into user fees.
I also hear MittCare is becoming a disaster with long waits.
Marxachusettts is a better word, imo.


Not really, but since you'd think Texas is one step away from Communism, I won't bother to argue it with you.

Radar Chief
04-10-2008, 03:16 PM
hate personal bail outs, but can't get enough corporate bail outs. /GOP

hate social welfare, but love corporate welfare /GOP


Bitching about it all being someone else’s fault on the topic started because a homeowner is refusing responsibility. /only Laz

BucEyedPea
04-10-2008, 03:21 PM
Not really, but since you'd think Texas is one step away from Communism, I won't bother to argue it with you.

More words in my mouth? I never said that anywhere. Another a lying lawyer just create conflict. It's true though. I read an article outlining all of them by a watch-dog group for small govt in Mass. Oh and many people in this country think of Mass as I stated.

banyon
04-10-2008, 03:27 PM
How many trees did we have in 1800 again? Lincoln probably destroyed a lot of the trees back then with his rampant mass rapings of them, animals, women, and children. That's why we have more trees today.

HemiEd
04-10-2008, 03:32 PM
Our our guberment wants to bail these idiots out. :shake:

**** them, that means you and I, who acted within our means are bailing them out. File bankruptcy you stupid ****s!

HemiEd
04-10-2008, 03:47 PM
Actually, Massachusetts (for one) is thoroughly average for the US for overall tax burden. Taxachusetts no more.

RI mgiht be up there a fair bit. Maine and NH are probably at or below average tax burden.

That is actually required here in Illinois, because the Realestate agents have no obligation to tell the truth. However, in Kansas, the agents are held to rules governing their industry, similar to insurance agents. I think the real issue, buyer beware, but certain states protect you better.

Amnorix
04-11-2008, 05:47 AM
I dont really have an opinion on the mortgage companies at this moment (too young really) but I have been reading up on my federal income tax and what seems to be coming across is that I dont need to be paying it, neither do you... I am confused by it, so somebody please help me out.

These are some of the things that I come across:
http://www.truthusa.org/articles/irs/irs2004.htm
http://theselfishbitch.wordpress.com/2007/02/23/never-pay-federal-income-tax-again/
http://www.smartvoter.org/1998jun/ca/state/vote/rivera_e/paper1.html

Is this like an urban legend? I wanted to go into law, but may have changed my mind recently, but it is things like this that make me want to go into it. I want to stop people from getting ****ed over something they perceive as being true or something the must do.

Apparently this is a group who filed suit: http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTPLawsuit/InfoCenter.htm


Forget it. It's half-baked bulls**t.

Amnorix
04-11-2008, 05:49 AM
A good one will, or at least have access to someone who can if you have questions.


True. But you'll have to ask. It's not part of what they expect to do, but obviously if they're any good, they'll gladly do what they can to help.

Amnorix
04-11-2008, 05:51 AM
More words in my mouth? I never said that anywhere. Another a lying lawyer just create conflict. It's true though. I read an article outlining all of them by a watch-dog group for small govt in Mass. Oh and many people in this country think of Mass as I stated.


It's an exaggeration. A bit of tongue-in-cheek. Geez, get over yourself.

And yes, I'm sure they do. But ever since Dukakis Massachusetts has realigned itself and isn't as out of whack as people think. Perceptions, of course, take a long time to change.

I'm not saying it's Idaho, of course...

PhillyChiefFan
04-11-2008, 07:12 AM
What changes will be made in the future to stop this from happening?

Do you think changes will be made such as were made after 1929? (FDIC and the like)

Was just thinking about what will happen to this country in the future due to the massive housing/credit crisis.

patteeu
04-11-2008, 07:57 AM
I don't have a problem with people who find themselves seriously upside down in their loan through no fault of their own, walking away from a mortgage as a business decision. It's a painful decision to have to make and those who make it aren't really getting any great deal, they're just cutting their losses.

go bowe
04-11-2008, 10:27 AM
How many trees did we have in 1800 again? Lincoln probably destroyed a lot of the trees back then with his rampant mass rapings of them, animals, women, and children. That's why we have more trees today.lincoln?

that's not lincoln...

there's only one man who could accomplish such a feat...





wait for it...





rich scanlon!!