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View Full Version : Jets/Patriots feud could benefit Chiefs


Count Alex's Losses
04-14-2008, 08:49 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/04/14/draft/

Cool stuff. Carl, stop laughing and draft someone good in the second round.


The Jets pick sixth in the first round. The Patriots pick seventh. Let me tell you a story about the last time New England picked directly behind the Jets high in a draft. It was 2001. New England held the 50th pick, New York the 49th. The Patriots very much wanted Iowa tackle Matt Light in the second round, but worried that the Jets might want Light too. New England personnel chief Scott Pioli called Light with the draft at the 47th pick and asked if he'd heard from any other teams recently. "Yeah,'' Light said. "I've got the Jets on the other line.'' Pioli thanked him, hung up, and the Patriots called the Lions, at 48, and swapped picks, giving Detroit a sixth-rounder in return. New England ended up with Light, who went on to become a three-time Super Bowl starter at left tackle. New York picked running back LaMont Jordan.

Now, when this story has been discussed over the years, the Jets have been quick to say they wouldn't necessarily have taken Light. (To which I say, "Maybe.'' Or "Yeah, right. And Joe Namath took knitting classes every night in Manhattan.'')

We can argue about New York's intent in 2001, but I can tell you this year's first round is already causing angst with the Patriots and Jets. As in the draft seven years ago, this draft finds the Jets and Patriots with similar needs. Not exactly the same needs -- the Jets might look at tackle and quarterback here, two spots the Pats won't pick in the first round -- but there are similar players very high on each team's draft boards. Glenn Dorsey. Vernon Gholston. Sedrick Ellis. Chris Long. Keith Rivers.

Moreover, the two organizations are warring clans now, after Spygate and the Deion Branch tampering charges, and that leads to an interesting scenario. Rich Cimini of the New York Daily News and Mike Reiss of the Boston Globe have written intelligently about the two teams trying to trade down. Cimini says because the Jets have spent so much guaranteed money this offseason, they'll be looking to shed the sixth slot in the draft; makes sense, I think, partly because of the estimated $20 million in guarantees the sixth pick will command.
However, after spending a good chunk of the weekend on the phone, I think the opposite could happen. I think if a player each team loves is sitting there when Kansas City goes on the clock at five, both could try to trade with the Chiefs to get the guy they want.

"We'll have our phone lines open,'' Chiefs president Carl Peterson said with a chuckle Saturday. "I can tell you if the guy we've targeted at five is not there, we'll definitely be interested in trading down.''
Wait: You need to add this proviso, Carl -- if you know the guy you want isn't going to be taken by the Jets or Pats, you've got to try to trade down just as hard.

Lots of teams trade little pieces of draft information this time of year. But you can be sure that the Patriots and Jets will be ultra-secretive when talking to friends in the league. They simply don't want their arch-enemy to know what they're thinking. Peterson also realizes that if New England is kept guessing about who the Jets want, and if the Patriots guess about who New York wants, he might be able to get either team to trade up. The Chiefs can win by keeping their lips zipped, and by dropping hints to the Pats and Jets that they'd better move into the fifth spot if they want to be sure to get the guy they love.

My theory is Peterson likes Jake Long and Matt Ryan. Also, there's a slight chance he might want Boise State's Ryan Clady, who is probably a better left-tackle prospect than Long. The way I see it, Long will be long gone by the fifth spot ... But if Atlanta doesn't take Ryan, he'll be there at 5. And should the Chiefs move down, Ryan would probably still be available at 6 and 7 too.

Here's what I love about this story: Don't put it past the Jets and the Patriots to try to trump each other.

Amnorix
04-14-2008, 08:52 AM
I really don't see the Pats giving up what it takes to move up. Maybe, maybe, MAYBe for Ghoulston, if they feel they really need to go LB, and have him graded alot higher than anybody else, and he's available at 5.

I'm expecting them to move back, to be honest...

cadmonkey
04-14-2008, 09:25 AM
I am expecting the Patriots to stay right where they are and take Gholston

Amnorix
04-14-2008, 09:35 AM
I am expecting the Patriots to stay right where they are and take Gholston


You think he'll last that long? If he's there, I agree, but i'm worried he won't be there. All else being equal, the Jets would take him I'm sure, but they may not be able to spend on a "luxury" like a pass-rushing specialist type, instead needing to fill more obvious needs along the defensive line, etc.

donkhater
04-14-2008, 10:00 AM
Honestly, this is the first draft ever I have no strong feelings for who the Chiefs select. They have so many holes that anyone they take (as long as it isn't a super reach) would be fine with me.

Hell, even if they took Clady with the pick at #5 I wouldn't be that upset. If he truly is the best LT in the draft and KC can't find a partner to trade down with, it's not a terrible move. People here might not like it, but it isn't bad-bad.

Now if they took a WR, S, TE, RB or Guard with their first pick I'd be upset just because there doesn't seem to be talented enough players to be had that high (outside of RB). But anything else I'd be on board with, even Keith Rivers.

Coogs
04-14-2008, 10:22 AM
The Patriots have an extra pick in round 3 at #69 from Oakland. That pick is about equal in value to swapping #5 and #7. I don't expect it to happen, but wouldn't be shocked if it did.

Frosty
04-14-2008, 10:23 AM
I could see the Jets swapping with Oakland to get Matt Ryan in front of the Chiefs. QB is a pretty big need for them and they are supposedly high on him.

DaKCMan AP
04-14-2008, 10:25 AM
I could see the Jets swapping with Oakland to get Matt Ryan in front of the Chiefs. QB is a pretty big need for them and they are supposedly high on him.

That would be fine with me. It would mean we don't draft Ryan and that we get one of Dorsey, Long, Long, Ellis and that the 'duhs don't.

Chiefnj2
04-14-2008, 10:45 AM
Screw the Jets. They unloaded Herm on us and got a 4th rounder. That's got to be one of the greatest steals of all time. I'd give the Pats the #5 spot for free, plus Herm.

markk
04-14-2008, 10:47 AM
if we take clady at 5 there should be rioting in kansas city and a mob showing up at arrowhead demanding reprisal. he will be there 10 picks later i bet

beach tribe
04-14-2008, 10:58 AM
Honestly, this is the first draft ever I have no strong feelings for who the Chiefs select. They have so many holes that anyone they take (as long as it isn't a super reach) would be fine with me.

Hell, even if they took Clady with the pick at #5 I wouldn't be that upset. If he truly is the best LT in the draft and KC can't find a partner to trade down with, it's not a terrible move. People here might not like it, but it isn't bad-bad.

Now if they took a WR, S, TE, RB or Guard with their first pick I'd be upset just because there doesn't seem to be talented enough players to be had that high (outside of RB). But anything else I'd be on board with, even Keith Rivers.
Draft boards should be stacked according to how valuable a player is to that team. Not what the media, fans, or other teams think. If you can trade down, and still get your guyit is a bonus. If not, choose your guy.
That's what a certain GM in Green Bay says anyway.

Fat Elvis
04-14-2008, 10:59 AM
if we take clady at 5 there should be rioting in kansas city and a mob showing up at arrowhead demanding reprisal. he will be there 10 picks later i bet


I think Ryan Clady has an alternate spelling of his name. It goes something like this: Trezelle Jenkins.

beach tribe
04-14-2008, 11:00 AM
if we take clady at 5 there should be rioting in kansas city and a mob showing up at arrowhead demanding reprisal. he will be there 10 picks later i bet
I doubt it. He won't make 15. He would likely be a bronco at 12.

patteeu
04-14-2008, 11:04 AM
if we take clady at 5 there should be rioting in kansas city and a mob showing up at arrowhead demanding reprisal. he will be there 10 picks later i bet

If we (a) want Clady, (b) don't have a pick 10 picks later, and (c) can't find a partner for a trade down, the only pick we can use to get him is pick #5.

Imagine the team who passed on Ricky Williams in 1999 and took Anthony MacFarland instead or the team who passed on Quenten Jammer to reach for Albert Haynesworth in 2002. Personally, I'm glad the Chiefs got Derrick Johnson instead of Cadillac Williams in 2005.

I just hope that the guy they take ends up earning his draft position AFTER he's picked rather than before the draft begins.

beach tribe
04-14-2008, 11:06 AM
If we (a) want Clady, (b) don't have a pick 10 picks later, and (c) can't find a partner for a trade down, the only pick we can use to get him is pick #5.

Imagine the team who passed on Ricky Williams in 1999 and took Anthony MacFarland instead or the team who passed on Quenten Jammer to reach for Albert Haynesworth in 2002. Personally, I'm glad the Chiefs got Derrick Johnson instead of Cadillac Williams in 2005.

I just hope that the guy they take ends up earning his draft position AFTER he's picked rather than before the draft begins.

Righteo.

Frazod
04-14-2008, 11:10 AM
It sure would be nice to be on the beneficial end of such shenanigans. I'm still pissed at how Cleveland traded up with Dallas and swooped in right ahead of us in the first and second round last year. Bastards.

Sure-Oz
04-14-2008, 11:11 AM
It sure would be nice to be on the beneficial end of such shenanigans. I'm still pissed at how Cleveland traded up with Dallas and swooped in right ahead of us in the first and second round last year. Bastards.

Yeah me too, that sucked...we probably would've drafted quinn or atleast taken offers

Brock
04-14-2008, 11:14 AM
What would you get for a move down from 5 to 7? A 3rd or 4th round pick? Also, Carl Peterson is ****ing retarded.

beach tribe
04-14-2008, 11:14 AM
Yeah me too, that sucked...we probably would've drafted quinn or atleast taken offers

Maybe on draft day, but in hindsight, I'd rather have Bowe.

DaKCMan AP
04-14-2008, 11:14 AM
It sure would be nice to be on the beneficial end of such shenanigans. I'm still pissed at how Cleveland traded up with Dallas and swooped in right ahead of us in the first and second round last year. Bastards.

Yeah me too, that sucked...we probably would've drafted quinn or atleast taken offers

Instead we ended up with some bum named Dwayne Bowe.

beach tribe
04-14-2008, 11:15 AM
The Patriots have an extra pick in round 3 at #69 from Oakland. That pick is about equal in value to swapping #5 and #7. I don't expect it to happen, but wouldn't be shocked if it did.

Something like this. EDIT: answering Brock.

Frazod
04-14-2008, 11:24 AM
Instead we ended up with some bum named Dwayne Bowe.

I have no problem with that (although the trade value would have been there). However, in the second round, they snaked us out of Wright. THAT sucked.

Chiefnj2
04-14-2008, 11:27 AM
My gut tells me KC falls back a little to grab an extra 3rd rounder and takes Otah with the first.

beach tribe
04-14-2008, 11:32 AM
My gut tells me KC falls back a little to grab an extra 3rd rounder and takes Otah with the first.

I'm cool with that.

keg in kc
04-14-2008, 12:07 PM
I have no problem with that (although the trade value would have been there). However, in the second round, they snaked us out of Wright. THAT sucked.That's the one that bothered me. I wasn't a big Quinn fan, so I thanked them for that one, but I got the impression from Herm that we had Wright targetted. To get that close...

A trade down wouldn't bother me at all, if we can do it and if we get good value. We have so many holes to fill that multiple 1st and/or 2nd/3rd round picks would be too much to pass up in my mind. But we can't let Dallas, for instance, take us to the cleaner because we're too desperate to go backwards.

But it would have to be great value. I don't want the Chiefs dropping out of the top 10 for a 4th and 5th, and I'm not sure a 3rd's enough, either...

Cave Johnson
04-14-2008, 12:59 PM
I have no problem with that (although the trade value would have been there). However, in the second round, they snaked us out of Wright. THAT sucked.

Just like CP snaked us out of Satale, too.

Sure-Oz
04-14-2008, 01:03 PM
Instead we ended up with some bum named Dwayne Bowe.

I'm not complaining trust me....

Sure-Oz
04-14-2008, 01:04 PM
Maybe on draft day, but in hindsight, I'd rather have Bowe.

Definetly...

Hell of a pick and i had good hopes for him anyway, but anyone that saw Quinn on the board before that trade was salivating at the thought of us drafting him

Dicky McElephant
04-14-2008, 01:05 PM
What did Cleveland exactly give up to Dallas? Was it this years 1st round pick and last years 2nd?

Hoover
04-14-2008, 01:08 PM
I was praying to god that we wouldn't draft Quinn.

I'll be praying this year that we don't draft Matt Ryan.

I'm just not sold on those two guys for what they cost,

Coogs
04-14-2008, 01:15 PM
How about a double trade down on draft day. This one with the Pats to get the #7 overall pick and the #69 pick in the 3rd round the Pats have from the Faiders.

Then... GBN has their new mock draft out today which has Cincinnati moving up from #9 to #7 for the #77 pick in the 3rd round.

That would give us #9, #35, #66, #69, and #77 in the first 3 rounds. Could fill a lot of spots with those selections.

cadmonkey
04-14-2008, 01:27 PM
You think he'll last that long? If he's there, I agree, but i'm worried he won't be there. All else being equal, the Jets would take him I'm sure, but they may not be able to spend on a "luxury" like a pass-rushing specialist type, instead needing to fill more obvious needs along the defensive line, etc.

Well, if he's not there then we take the #1 CB on the board. Either way, we are not moving anywhere and fill one of our huge needs.

ceebz
04-14-2008, 02:09 PM
I was praying to god that we wouldn't draft Quinn.

I'll be praying this year that we don't draft Matt Ryan.

I'm just not sold on those two guys for what they cost,

I agree completely. I personally think Booty may be the best pro prospect in this year's draft. However, regardless of which QB you perceive as the best prospect, I think we can all agree that none of them are worth a top five pick.

Bowser
04-14-2008, 02:17 PM
How about a double trade down on draft day. This one with the Pats to get the #7 overall pick and the #69 pick in the 3rd round the Pats have from the Faiders.

Then... GBN has their new mock draft out today which has Cincinnati moving up from #9 to #7 for the #77 pick in the 3rd round.

That would give us #9, #35, #66, #69, and #77 in the first 3 rounds. Could fill a lot of spots with those selections.

Sounds good, but that's WAAAY more money Carl wants to shell out to rookies.

Amnorix
04-14-2008, 02:18 PM
Well, if he's not there then we take the #1 CB on the board. Either way, we are not moving anywhere and fill one of our huge needs.


"huge". Dude, we went 18-1. We have needs, but they're not really that huge compared to what other teams drafting near the top of the draft board have to deal with. Or, at least, we have far fewer needs.

Don't forget HOW we built this monster team of ours -- collecting picks from toher teams more desperate than ours. We have this #7 pick because the Niners were operating in the short term, and we were operating in the long.

If someone much lower down offers us a 1st this year (say late teens/early 20s) and a #1 next year, you can bet the Pats will be movin' on down, unless they LOVE the guy at #7 and think he is vastly better than anyone at #18 or whatever.

The Rick
04-14-2008, 02:21 PM
How about a double trade down on draft day. This one with the Pats to get the #7 overall pick and the #69 pick in the 3rd round the Pats have from the Faiders.

Then... GBN has their new mock draft out today which has Cincinnati moving up from #9 to #7 for the #77 pick in the 3rd round.

That would give us #9, #35, #66, #69, and #77 in the first 3 rounds. Could fill a lot of spots with those selections.
:hmmm:

DaKCMan AP
04-14-2008, 02:29 PM
I personally think Booty may be the best pro prospect in this year's draft.

ROFL

ceebz
04-14-2008, 02:39 PM
ROFLCome on, it wasn't that funny. :D

SBK
04-14-2008, 02:56 PM
Don't forget HOW we built this monster team of ours -- collecting picks from toher teams more desperate than ours.

Same way the Broncos did. By violating the rules.....:evil:

SBK
04-14-2008, 02:57 PM
Come on, it wasn't that funny. :D

You are right about that. It wasn't funny, it was retarded.

ceebz
04-14-2008, 03:05 PM
You are right about that. It wasn't funny, it was retarded.

This year's qb class is below average, IMO. I don't see why it's "retarded" to think Booty may be the best of them. :rolleyes:

Amnorix
04-14-2008, 03:33 PM
Oh, and I think 2 of our 3 DLinemen have contracts up in 2009, so don't be surprised if we go DL too.

SBK
04-14-2008, 04:05 PM
This year's qb class is below average, IMO. I don't see why it's "retarded" to think Booty may be the best of them. :rolleyes:

Maybe you're just smarter than EVERY GM, SCOUT, AND NFL team? If Booty was considered the best you'd have people talking about him being the best wouldn't you?

Halfcan
04-14-2008, 05:30 PM
so we trade down and lose a Dorsey, Ryan or Long-sounds just like the dumbshit antics Carl would pull.

Sure-Oz
04-14-2008, 07:34 PM
Trade down and draft Owen Schmidt with our late 1st rounder, thats all LJ needs

el borracho
04-14-2008, 07:40 PM
If we trade down we had better negotiate something along the lines of a future 1st. I will be severely disappointed if we trade out of the top 5 for an extra 3rd round pick.