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View Full Version : I feel like I've been kicked in da nuts


Nzoner
04-14-2008, 06:56 PM
It took over a year and a half to land one of the best salespeople in my city.I basically offered him whatever it took and he was set up very nice and just starting to get on a roll and actually pay for himself being here and now he tells me he's accepted another offer to be a GM for a few local radio stations.

Seriously,I'm happy for him but also feel like I've been kicked in the nuts.I'm trying to get myself up but it just seems like everytime I take one step forward it's two steps back within a matter of days.

Good salespeople are hard to find and as I'm finding out even harder to keep, :( and being in business for yourself truly gives you the best and worst of times.

el borracho
04-14-2008, 06:58 PM
I'm sorry to hear that, Joe. You want I should break his legs or something?

Nzoner
04-14-2008, 07:04 PM
I'm sorry to hear that, Joe. You want I should break his legs or something?

Nah,but maybe you could make him an offer he can't refuse :D

Coach
04-14-2008, 07:09 PM
Sorry to hear. Too bad that I'm not much of a sales type of a person, since I don't have a clue on what's being sold, or being done. Heh.

redbrian
04-14-2008, 07:13 PM
From a salesman’s perspective I can relate to your guy.

I get a call from a headhunter at least once a month trying to pry me away from my current employer.

I am presently in negotiation with another company which if we agree to terms I will be leaving my current employer very shortly.

I have a little regret as I truly like my current boss, but the offer is much better than the present company could ever offer and after having been laid off from three previous companies I really don’t have a lot of loyalty anymore.

I do understand your pain however as it does take any salesman a ramp up period to start performing and you do have money invested in this guy.

Good luck to you as it seems there is no recession for good salesmen in today’s market.

Nzoner
04-14-2008, 07:15 PM
Sorry to hear. Too bad that I'm not much of a sales type of a person, since I don't have a clue on what's being sold, or being done. Heh.

I don't believe a woman has ever given birth to a salesperson,if someone wants to do it bad enough it's like anything else,learn it and master it.

Nzoner
04-14-2008, 07:20 PM
From a salesman’s perspective I can relate to your guy.

I get a call from a headhunter at least once a month trying to pry me away from my current employer.

I am presently in negotiation with another company which if we agree to terms I will be leaving my current employer very shortly.

I have a little regret as I truly like my current boss, but the offer is much better than the present company could ever offer and after having been laid off from three previous companies I really don’t have a lot of loyalty anymore.

I do understand your pain however as it does take any salesman a ramp up period to start performing and you do have money invested in this guy.

Good luck to you as it seems there is no recession for good salesmen in today’s market.

I really appreciate that,and I've often wondered had I never started my own company how many headhunters would've approached me by now.

Ari Chi3fs
04-14-2008, 07:29 PM
Sorry to hear about that Joe... But, I really think I will make a great Radio Station GM.

chagrin
04-14-2008, 07:38 PM
Too bad, and I just got a new gig at JP Morgan CHASE :D

Friendo
04-14-2008, 07:51 PM
in your industry in particular it's hard to find good ones. as peeps mature however, monetary compensation or a "title" isn't necessarily the prime motivator...a factor often overlooked by employers imo. good luck--you seem like a good dude to work for/with.

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 09:25 AM
in your industry in particular it's hard to find good ones. as peeps mature however, monetary compensation or a "title" isn't necessarily the prime motivator...a factor often overlooked by employers imo. good luck--you seem like a good dude to work for/with.

Are you referring to the sales industry as a whole or advertising in particular?

Also as a business owner/employer I'm always wanting to learn more so in your opinion what other motivators are you referring to?

Thanks.

Demonpenz
04-15-2008, 09:31 AM
you made him listen to heart..didn't you?

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 09:32 AM
you made him listen to heart..didn't you?

:shake: he was an 80's hair band fan

Phobia
04-15-2008, 09:47 AM
Bummer. I know how excited you were for this guy and how long you've been looking for that relationship.

I experienced something similar recently in that I really needed a project manager type to help me run multiple jobs simultaneously. This guy had all the experience and skills and I was thrilled. I gave him double what I was paying any other individual and turned him loose despite my tendency to micro-manage. I thought I was doing well.

Turns out he liked to be micro-managed. He got upset that I wasn't in contact enough. I either didn't listen to what he was saying or I was too hell-bent on cramming that square peg into my round hole that I never saw it.

Fortunately, I didn't invest a ton of money and time in him but where I thought my future growth needs were taken care of for 2008, I'm back to square one.

Clearly, I need to listen better. When something appears to be working out better than I deserve, I need to continue to cultivate it. I have a position of power/comfort in several of my relationships because those individuals need me more than I need them and sometimes that arrogance can be my demise for relationships that need more massaging.

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 09:52 AM
I either didn't listen to what he was saying or I was too hell-bent on cramming that square peg into my round hole that I never saw it.

I've been questioning myself alot on this as well.I want to think that since he had radio in his blood(16 years previous) that this opportunity was too good to pass up no matter what I would've done.

Aw well,we pick ourselves up and go on,but I'm going to need a bigger shovel on this one to dig my way out.

Thanks for the input dude.

cmh6476
04-15-2008, 09:57 AM
I've done lots of networking. Call me :)

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 09:59 AM
I've done lots of networking. Call me :)

Dude I cater to Republicans and Democrats :)

cmh6476
04-15-2008, 10:00 AM
Dude I cater to Republicans and Democrats :)

me too :)

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 10:01 AM
me too :)

Well if you're seriously looking to change careers send me a resume or call as interviews are always free.

Radar Chief
04-15-2008, 10:57 AM
Sorry to hear. Too bad that I'm not much of a sales type of a person, since I don't have a clue on what's being sold, or being done. Heh.


Sounds like you’re as qualified as any other salesman I’ve ever met. ;)

keg in kc
04-15-2008, 11:00 AM
Sorry to hear it Joe, but you'll come out of it okay in the end.

Braincase
04-15-2008, 11:04 AM
It's probably due to that sticker you have on your toilet. Time to pay homage to the Jayhawks and remove the curse that afflicts you.

Demonpenz
04-15-2008, 11:05 AM
always
be
closing

Otter
04-15-2008, 11:21 AM
I have a position of power/comfort in several of my relationships because those individuals need me more than I need them and sometimes that arrogance can be my demise for relationships that need more massaging.

Look no further Phil!!!

http://www.citynoise.org/upload/11796.jpg

Otter
04-15-2008, 11:25 AM
Sorry, couldn't resist the joke and sorry to hear about the problems. If you know the guy well and trust him to give an honest and sincere reason to why he left, I'd ask him.

It's kind of a shot to the ego but in the long run it might be easier than trying to figure out what went wrong yourself. Viewing yourself through someone else's eyes while humbling can also be enlightening.

Maybe you'll find out it was something as simple as he always wanted to work in radio as well.

:shrug:

Gonzo
04-15-2008, 11:28 AM
For a Coke a day, you could have leather......

xbarretx
04-15-2008, 11:51 AM
It took over a year and a half to land one of the best salespeople in my city.I basically offered him whatever it took and he was set up very nice and just starting to get on a roll and actually pay for himself being here and now he tells me he's accepted another offer to be a GM for a few local radio stations.

Seriously,I'm happy for him but also feel like I've been kicked in the nuts.I'm trying to get myself up but it just seems like everytime I take one step forward it's two steps back within a matter of days.

Good salespeople are hard to find and as I'm finding out even harder to keep, :( and being in business for yourself truly gives you the best and worst of times.

eww i have personally cleared all my sales experience off my résumé to avoid being contacted for sales positions. im a young guy working on my Masters... and i wont be bothered by commision only positons.

its a shame b/c FEW in sales TRULY understand the importance of Empathy and what exactily good customer service is. :shake:

xbarretx
04-15-2008, 11:53 AM
Look no further Phil!!!

http://www.citynoise.org/upload/11796.jpg

yep no more of "those" in KC thanks to the Trafficking FBI crack down last year.

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 11:58 AM
and i wont be bothered by commision only positons.

its a shame b/c FEW in sales TRULY understand the importance of Empathy and what exactily good customer service is. :shake:

Because he was one of the few like myself who does understand the importance he was on salary,commission,gas allowance and health benefits for himself and family.He was making good money,alas the radio stations offered him even more.

xbarretx
04-15-2008, 12:00 PM
Because he was one of the few like myself who does understand the importance he was on salary,commission,gas allowance and health benefits for himself and family.He was making good money,alas the radio stations offered him even more.

:hmmm: then I feel your pain bro. :grouphug:

given the current job market and lack of confidence....the rule stays true "cash baby, is king"

BIG_DADDY
04-15-2008, 12:02 PM
Just call me Mr. Sales. I gotta tell you though, as hard as it is to find a good salesman it's equally hard to fing an employer who won't try and find a way to try and steal some of their money back after putting a compensation plan together for you. That is why I went into business for myself. I spent my entire life in sales being lied to.

Friendo
04-15-2008, 12:09 PM
Are you referring to the sales industry as a whole or advertising in particular?

Also as a business owner/employer I'm always wanting to learn more so in your opinion what other motivators are you referring to?

Thanks.


Advertising, and as you know, radio advertising in particular.

Motivators--does he have kids, and what ages are they? Not being micro-managed, and having the time off as I need it (as long as I'm hitting numbers)is what's important to me. We don't do a lot of the dog & pony stuff (live remotes, etc) so I'm not required to be at the smiley-face events. I also have a significant input into PD and marketing issues. Partnership/buy-in stake, and don't have to compete with my own company (ie-numerous other slspeeps).

I take it you didn't feel comfortable asking for a non-compete?

ottawa_chiefs_fan
04-15-2008, 12:13 PM
eww i have personally cleared all my sales experience off my résumé to avoid being contacted for sales positions. im a young guy working on my Masters... and i wont be bothered by commision only positons.

its a shame b/c FEW in sales TRULY understand the importance of Empathy and what exactily good customer service is. :shake:

QFT - you obviously know what you are talking about - good, consistent, relationship-building sales comes down to one word - empathy - the more you feel your customer's pain, joy, whatever - the more successful you will be....pretty simple really - but soooooooooooooo hard to find....

Friendo
04-15-2008, 12:18 PM
QFT - you obviously know what you are talking about - good, consistent, relationship-building sales comes down to one word - empathy - the more you feel your customer's pain, joy, whatever - the more successful you will be....pretty simple really - but soooooooooooooo hard to find....

Job-security for the savvy!

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 12:19 PM
Advertising, and as you know, radio advertising in particular.

Motivators--does he have kids, and what ages are they? Not being micro-managed, and having the time off as I need it (as long as I'm hitting numbers)is what's important to me. We don't do a lot of the dog & pony stuff (live remotes, etc) so I'm not required to be at the smiley-face events. I also have a significant input into PD and marketing issues. Partnership/buy-in stake, and don't have to compete with my own company (ie-numerous other slspeeps).

I take it you didn't feel comfortable asking for a non-compete?

Actually I'm in print advertising,he was in radio and I brought him to print and after one year he was really starting to get on a roll.He was in radio for 16 years prior and although the adjustment was a little tough on him he was making big strides,I guess the radio blood in him just won over,plus they're making him the GM so it's another step up the rung.

As for the motivators,he knew he had the time he needed for family,I strongly believe if a sales rep is hitting the numbers then let them be,each of us has our own way of doing things and as long as we're producing then the freedom of time off or getting personal things done on company time is a perk that goes along.

ROYC75
04-15-2008, 12:20 PM
Joe, I know the feeling . I took a guy, offered him good money, he worked for awhile and we doubled our sales....... He quits and opens up his own business 4 months later trying to use my same customers but found out he couldn't make it without my help. My customers were loyal to me and then he wanted to come back, I told him he was nuts and to seek elsewhere.

At least your guy isn't directly affecting your sales as much as my guy did.

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 12:22 PM
At least your guy isn't directly affecting your sales as much as my guy did.

There's a bonus,he's moving 40 miles from here.

xbarretx
04-15-2008, 12:34 PM
QFT - you obviously know what you are talking about - good, consistent, relationship-building sales comes down to one word - empathy - the more you feel your customer's pain, joy, whatever - the more successful you will be....pretty simple really - but soooooooooooooo hard to find....

i agree and disagree with that being hard to find. i think its hard b/c too many companies hire people for the wrong reasons. They need to hire for Aptitude , uniqueness, and motivations (i.e. what the employee wants to get out of the job). When i was in sales i TRULY wanted to help people. Its exactly like you state it.."feel their pain and feel there joy" at heart I am a people pleaser that’s why im good at what I do (b/c im always doing what I can to help). I think if companies can revamp there recruitment practices and get off the "good old boy" system.... things would change because there’s always someone else offering more money and less micromanagement.

i switched my customer service and sales experience and moved into Logistics about 4 years ago because too often did my company NOT put the customer first. When that doesn’t happen it honestly f's my day and i leave feeling like s**t. another caveat to sales is i was able to quench my thirst for knowledge by constantly getting to know (truly) my customers. that’s my way of taking ownership as well as customer service to the next level. that’s how you build bonds with customers and developed loyal ones.

now that i left customer service/sales im trying to get into auditing (internal audit) because i can still have customer interaction AND constantly learn. luckily my company ...which is so good "you can hear a pin drop" is large thus has potential for continuous opportunity. the funny thing however is that my love for customer service isn’t helping my company (which is famous for bad customer service) :(

p.s. big thanks for the compliment. :toast: knowing that stuff is hard but knowing to appreciate it is even tougher :thumb:

dj56dt58
04-15-2008, 12:45 PM
you can hire me..I can sell anything. If your looking for a degree though u gotta wait 2 years..I'll be expecting a 500,000 sign on bonus and a brand new bmw

xbarretx
04-15-2008, 12:48 PM
you can hire me..I can sell anything. If your looking for a degree though u gotta wait 2 years..I'll be expecting a 500,000 sign on bonus and a brand new bmw

job market for recent grads in slow..... trust me :(

the good news for you and I is that ill be finished with my MBA Jan 2010 and with two years for yours (not sure what degree?).....the market should be "bull" again (instead of Bear) which will help career Aspirations 10 fold!

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 01:29 PM
you can hire me..I can sell anything. If your looking for a degree though u gotta wait 2 years..I'll be expecting a 500,000 sign on bonus and a brand new bmw


I prefer people without degrees,easier to train and have not been brainwashed with what higher education refers to as sales/marketing.

True sales is about honesty,the customer and wanting to help people,you do that you will be successful,class over.

xbarretx
04-15-2008, 01:40 PM
I prefer people without degrees,easier to train and have not been brainwashed with what higher education refers to as sales/marketing.

True sales is about honesty,the customer and wanting to help people,you do that you will be successful,class over.

look at my posts, thats how i roll. but i had to change field due to lack of opportunity. as for non grads, why not just hire non marketing grads? im working on my MBA and most of my classes are finance related. I of course have taken a mktg/adv class now and then but its not my major. my point is that hiring non grads is as dumb as hiring people that have done the exact job your hiring for in the past. doing so does not bring about change and progress in the work force and leads to unhappy works who succumb to draconian laws of micromanagement. recruitment should be about the traits mentioned earlier. i don’t care if you have a double PHD in sales or you don’t....if you don’t have a genuine need to help the customer then your calling IS NOT SALES.

sorry for rambling... i just hate when people don’t hire grads just as people who only hire for not specialized degrees (i.e. ONLY a finance degree). if your a geologist then yes you probably look for that or a related degree. im not up to my dam ears in student loan debt and having spent 5 years in college so someone can tell me im stubborn. especially when customer service is the one thing i take passion in executing correctly.

no harm no foul Nzoner :toast:

so yes if that guy is as you described him ... you were indeed kicked in the junk and i feel your pain bro :grouphug:

rochambeau
rochambeau
rochambeau

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 02:51 PM
look at my posts, thats how i roll. but i had to change field due to lack of opportunity. as for non grads, why not just hire non marketing grads? im working on my MBA and most of my classes are finance related. I of course have taken a mktg/adv class now and then but its not my major. my point is that hiring non grads is as dumb as hiring people that have done the exact job your hiring for in the past. doing so does not bring about change and progress in the work force and leads to unhappy works who succumb to draconian laws of micromanagement. recruitment should be about the traits mentioned earlier. i don’t care if you have a double PHD in sales or you don’t....if you don’t have a genuine need to help the customer then your calling IS NOT SALES.

sorry for rambling... i just hate when people don’t hire grads just as people who only hire for not specialized degrees (i.e. ONLY a finance degree). if your a geologist then yes you probably look for that or a related degree. im not up to my dam ears in student loan debt and having spent 5 years in college so someone can tell me im stubborn. especially when customer service is the one thing i take passion in executing correctly.

no harm no foul Nzoner :toast:

so yes if that guy is as you described him ... you were indeed kicked in the junk and i feel your pain bro


Dude I said I prefer people without degrees(and I was referring to marketing degrees only,sorry) I'll gladly interview someone with a degree as well,I've just had a couple of former employees with marketing degrees that thought they knew more than me and I deal with some of the same arrogance on a daily basis when it comes to advertising agency people.

Don't mean any offense to anyone I just believe the bottom line for successful sales is YOU LOVE PEOPLE AND USE MONEY not vice versa.

xbarretx
04-15-2008, 02:57 PM
Don't mean any offense to anyone I just believe the bottom line for successful sales is YOU LOVE PEOPLE AND USE MONEY not vice versa.

no harm no foul bro, if your the boss and you belief that stuff then i bet its a pleasure to work for you. TOO OFTEN mgmt doesnt realize that (truly realize) and as such the customers and employees suffer thus the business suffers.

:thumb: your all right in my book Nzoner!

Bwana
04-15-2008, 04:18 PM
Heh, If I lived in your area, I would be giving you a jingle. I am soooo burned out on my gig right now. I have been in the top 5% in sales for years with this company and they just keep cutting things back on the bonus money. Time to spend a little time at monster.com and make a move soon Joe.

Good luck in your search.

xbarretx
04-15-2008, 05:30 PM
Heh, If I lived in your area, I would be giving you a jingle. I am soooo burned out on my gig right now. I have been in the top 5% in sales for years with this company and they just keep cutting things back on the bonus money. Time to spend a little time at monster.com and make a move soon Joe.

Good luck in your search.

if your looking for sales Monster is your friend. i mentioned i had to remove all my sales and CS experience b/c all i got was sales offers. :cuss: what makes people think a full time working goign to school full time and raising two toddlers can afford commision only?

:shake: and you want to talk about cutting bonus's then look away from "the pin drop" company (i fear saying their name b/c its really a good company, just had bad leadership) :shake: raise... WTF is that? quarterly bonus.... WTF is that? cost of living ... HU? that exists? again the pay sucks but i enjoy working for the company.

Bwana
04-15-2008, 05:41 PM
if your looking for sales Monster is your friend. i mentioned i had to remove all my sales and CS experience b/c all i got was sales offers.

I love dealing with people and have always done very well with sales. I am going to be damn picky who I go to work for for my next gig through. I have already turned down over a dozen offers. My next job is going to be on my terms. My present job has mutated into a two headed snake and my opportunity to be in the field selling has been greatly reduced.

xbarretx
04-15-2008, 08:23 PM
I love dealing with people and have always done very well with sales. I am going to be damn picky who I go to work for for my next gig through. I have already turned down over a dozen offers. My next job is going to be on my terms. My present job has mutated into a two headed snake and my opportunity to be in the field selling has been greatly reduced.


i feel your pain bro :(

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 09:14 PM
Heh, If I lived in your area, I would be giving you a jingle. I am soooo burned out on my gig right now. I have been in the top 5% in sales for years with this company and they just keep cutting things back on the bonus money. Time to spend a little time at monster.com and make a move soon Joe.

Good luck in your search.

I'm about ready to say fock it and join the search with you,this being married to your business partner is bullshit.

Bwana
04-15-2008, 09:17 PM
I'm about ready to say fock it and join the search with you,this being married to your business partner is bullshit.

Heh, research the threads of me in the auto brokerage business. Owning ones own business can be "a little wild west."

stevieray
04-15-2008, 09:23 PM
bummer, joe....

Being self employed, we all know that when it's good, it's great, and when it's bad..it sucks...I still wouldn't trade it for the world...

good luck in your search, but after seeing what you are offering, I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for...I'd be very tempted if I lived in St Joe...

Bacon Cheeseburger
04-15-2008, 09:45 PM
I'm about ready to say fock it and join the search with you,this being married to your business partner is bullshit.

Good luck with that. After being self-employed for eight years I'm not having much luck finding a permanent job. I think it may be because I think a little too highly of myself. Then again, your line of work probably hasn't been flooded with cheap labor from south of the border for the last decade...

Nzoner
04-15-2008, 09:54 PM
Good luck with that. After being self-employed for eight years I'm not having much luck finding a permanent job. I think it may be because I think a little too highly of myself. Then again, your line of work probably hasn't been flooded with cheap labor from south of the border for the last decade...

You want to make a few extra bucks helping me sell fireworks this season?

Bacon Cheeseburger
04-15-2008, 10:18 PM
You want to make a few extra bucks helping me sell fireworks this season?
If things don't pick up for me soon I'd certainly consider it.

KcMizzou
04-15-2008, 10:27 PM
It's gettin' rough all around. I made a call to Jay Wolfe (a car dealership) the other day to buy a part, and some dude answered, "Hello?"

I told him, "I must have the wrong number, I was trying to reach Jay Wolfe." He told me I had the right number, but they'd just gone out of business the day before.

At my place, we hit our bonus 10 out of 12 months last year, yet now they're pushing us hard to get our gross profit % up.... and our bonus target has been raised by around 50k a month.

I'd think they'd be congratulating us on a job well done.

Friendo
04-15-2008, 10:49 PM
It's gettin' rough all around. I made a call to Jay Wolfe (a car dealership) the other day to buy a part, and some dude answered, "Hello?"

I told him, "I must have the wrong number, I was trying to reach Jay Wolfe." He told me I had the right number, but they'd just gone out of business the day before.

At my place, we hit our bonus 10 out of 12 months last year, yet now they're pushing us hard to get our gross profit % up.... and our bonus target has been raised by around 50k a month.

I'd think they'd be congratulating us on a job well done.



I'm guessing there's shareholder ROI involved?

Mr. Flopnuts
04-16-2008, 01:17 AM
It's gettin' rough all around. I made a call to Jay Wolfe (a car dealership) the other day to buy a part, and some dude answered, "Hello?"

I told him, "I must have the wrong number, I was trying to reach Jay Wolfe." He told me I had the right number, but they'd just gone out of business the day before.

At my place, we hit our bonus 10 out of 12 months last year, yet now they're pushing us hard to get our gross profit % up.... and our bonus target has been raised by around 50k a month.

I'd think they'd be congratulating us on a job well done.

Sounds like a sweat shop. MORE, MORE, MORE!!! America baby, you gotta love it.

Nzoner
04-16-2008, 08:03 AM
It's gettin' rough all around.

Yeah,in my line of work I visit with up to 20 business owners in a day sometimes and the negativity and depressing crap some of them share is a load to have to carry around.Don't get me wrong I have the empathy for them like we've been talking about,however,some of them don't even want to try and do anything about business being bad i.e. advertising with a publication like ours going to over 80,000 mailboxes.

Demonpenz
04-16-2008, 08:11 AM
When I go back to St. Joseph it is like traveling back in time 10 years. Technology, Business vision, etc.

Nzoner
04-16-2008, 09:27 AM
When I go back to St. Joseph it is like traveling back in time 10 years. Technology, Business vision, etc.

No shit dude we are the caboose when it comes to all of that.

Toad
04-16-2008, 09:17 PM
One of the largest lessons I've learned in the sales guys I've hired is that the old cliche to find the best "fit" is true. If you focus on the numbers side of a guy to hard, you'll miss whether he/she is good for you or your company. I learned the hard way to steer clear of hiring those "all world" sales guys.

I've learned to look for consistency, integrity, work ethic, etc...

Rausch
04-16-2008, 09:20 PM
You want to make a few extra bucks helping me sell fireworks this season?

I don't find something soon I'll offer to wait tables on your deck...