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jAZ
04-16-2008, 08:01 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16/hillary-clinton-on-workin_n_97017.html?view=print

Hillary Clinton On Southern Working Class Whites In 1995: "Screw 'Em"

April 16, 2008 02:21 PM

During the past week, Sen. Hillary Clinton has presented herself as a working class populist, the politician in touch with small town sentiments, compared to the elitism of her opponent, Sen. Barack Obama.

But a telling anecdote from her husband's administration shows Hillary Clinton's attitudes about the "lunch-bucket Democrats" are not exactly pristine.

In January 1995, as the Clintons were licking their wounds from the 1994 congressional elections, a debate emerged at a retreat at Camp David. Should the administration make overtures to working class white southerners who had all but forsaken the Democratic Party? The then-first lady took a less than inclusive approach.

"Screw 'em," she told her husband. "You don't owe them a thing, Bill. They're doing nothing for you; you don't have to do anything for them."

The statement -- which author Benjamin Barber witnessed and wrote about in his book, "The Truth of Power: Intellectual Affairs in the Clinton White House" -- was prompted by another speaker raising the difficulties of reaching "Reagan Democrats." It stands in stark contrast to the attitude the New York Democrat has recently taken on the campaign trail, in which she has presented herself as the one candidate who understands the working-class needs.

"I don't think [Obama] really gets it that people are looking for a president who stands up for you and not looks down on you," she said this week.

But those who were at the event say the 1995 episode fits into her larger viewpoint. As Harry Boyte, the director of the University of Minnesota's Center for Democracy and Citizenship who was at the retreat, told The Huffington Post: "[Hillary Clinton] sees herself as the champion of the oppressed, but there is always a kind of good guy versus bad guy mentality. The comment before that was that 'the Reagan Democrats are our enemies and they weren't on our side,' and she was agreeing with that comment. She said we should write them off: screw them."

A spokesperson for Clinton said the quote was taken out of context and did not reflect her true political philosophy. "This quote differs from the recollection of others who were in the room at the time this comment was allegedly made," said Jay Carson. "To be clear, that's not how she felt then and it's not how she feels now, and the proof is in how she has lived her life, the work she has done and the policies she has pushed and pursued over the last 35 years."

Asked to produce a witness who would say that Clinton had been misquoted, Carson wrote: "So, you've got two guys we've barely heard of remembering a verbatim quote from 13 years ago?... Sounds totally and completely reliable."

Barber's book was published in 2001.

Perhaps even more telling than Hillary Clinton's proclamation, however, were the words from her husband that followed. As reported by Barber, Clinton "stepped in, calm and judicious, not irritated, as if rehearsing an old but honorable debate he had been having with his wife for decades."

I know how you feel. I understand Hillary's sense of outrage. It makes me mad too. Sure, we lost our base in the South; our boys voted for Gingrich. But let me tell you something. I know these boys. I grew up with them. Hardworking, poor, white boys, who feel left out, feel that our reforms always come at their expense. Think about it, every progressive advance our country has made since the Civil War has been on their backs. They're the ones asked to pay the price of progress. Now, we are the party of progress, but let me tell you, until we find a way to include these boys in our programs, until we stop making them pay the whole price of liberty for others, we are never going to unite our party, never really going to have change that sticks.

If the tone and tenor of the above sounds familiar, it's because the message, Boyte says, is remarkably similar to what Obama was trying to convey in his now controversial remarks about small town America.

"Well, yeah, absolutely," said Boyte, when asked if Obama and Bill Clinton were expressing the same political viewpoint (Boyte said he and his organization are neutral in the presidential race). "I think Obama's better-or-worse versions of this have always been that people are complicated. It comes from an organizing perspective. You don't write off people, everyone is complicated. It just depends on the issue. And that's what Bill Clinton was saying. He was a sentimental populist."

Not to be lost in all this, as Boyte notes, is that Hillary Clinton has consistently been a "champion for the people who were helpless and powerless." But there is a political component to the mindset.

"Hillary Clinton has a very strong customer view: the citizen is the customer and the government the vendor," said Boyte. "You can see it in Mark Penn's frame. In fact, last Christmas she had an ad of herself writing checks to different groups."

Update: Jake Tapper, over at ABC, had highlighted the "screw em" quote back in October. His article was in reference to comments Sen. Clinton had made about Mississippi. Considering events this past week, the issue has taken on increased relevance.

Late Update: The Clinton campaign put me in touch with Don Baer, President Clinton's speech writer at the time, who had attended the same meeting. He says: "I don't remember anything along those lines, at all. And I certainly don't remember Senator Clinton saying anything like that... they have their recollections of that, that is their business. The conversation, from my perspective, was moderated in tone."

He did not, it should be noted, directly challenge the interpretations of Barber and Boyte.

Baer's comments came at roughly the same moment that The New Republic published a blog post by Alan Wolfe, a professor of political science at Boston College, who was also at the retreat and says he too heard the quote. Noting Carson's remark -- "So, you've got two guys we've barely heard of remembering a verbatim quote from 13 years ago?... Sounds totally and completely reliable" -- Wolfe writes: "Make that three. I was there. I hope people have heard of me. And Barber and Boyte have it right."

Adept Havelock
04-16-2008, 08:21 PM
I'm sure that people will realize that Hillary couldn't possibly have said anything so crass, so brazen, so......ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

Sorry, I should have known I couldn't get through that without cracking up.

Ultra Peanut
04-16-2008, 08:45 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Chiefnj2
04-16-2008, 09:09 PM
I believe her actual quote was "**** those inbred bible thumping, gun humping, abortion clinic bombing, banjo playing, web footed one tooth Republicans."

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-16-2008, 11:04 PM
I understand her frustration at the time. Reagan Democrats aren't Democrats.

She'd actually gain points in my book if she turned full heel and just started blasting them rather than apologizing. It'd be more honest.

HolmeZz
04-16-2008, 11:12 PM
We'll see if this gets blown up like Obama's comments(which actually had an intellectual point).

irishjayhawk
04-16-2008, 11:20 PM
We'll see if this gets blown up like Obama's comments(which actually had an intellectual point).

Pay attention. The media favors Obama. They absolutely will get blown up.

banyon
04-16-2008, 11:21 PM
In the debate Obama also replied saying he thought it was unfair the way people characterized Hillary when she replied to a reporter saying should she stay home and bake cookies.

He also pointed out that saying he knew a guy that had been associated with the Weathermen underground 40 years ago when he was 8 years old was really not fair when her husband Bill had himself pardoned 2 of the weathermen.

He replied to these attacks pretty deftly I thought.

jAZ
04-17-2008, 12:54 AM
More working-class authenticity...

http://blogs.mcall.com/penn_ave/2008/04/supporter-in-cl.html

Supporter in Clinton attack ad not registered in Pa.

Posted by Josh Drobnyk at 6:12:11 PM on April 15, 2008

Barack Obama can take some solace out of Hillary Clinton’s new television ad in Pennsylvania. At least one of her supporters featured in the spot hammering Obama for his small town comments isn’t registered to vote in Pennsylvania.

Clyde Thomas, who sports a goatee in the ad and says, “the good people of Pennsylvania deserve a lot better than what Barack Obama said,” is actually registered in New Jersey. He voted there for Clinton Feb. 5. He only recently moved to Bethlehem, Pa.

“It shouldn’t be a big deal. I explained it to the campaign,” Thomas said in an interview. “I see Pennsylvanians for what they are. I grew up with the values of Pennsylvanians.”

He added: “I am from a perspective of someone coming into Pennsylvania new like Barack Obama is, and seeing how great they are and how they welcome me.”

Thomas said he was born in Scranton, but has lived his entire life in Somerville, N.J. He is a 46-year-old unemployed environmental engineer, having gotten his degree from the University of Scranton.

He said he has been volunteering for the campaign in recent weeks, handing out literature and making phone calls. He said the campaign approached him about appearing in the ad, which was filmed in Bethlehem, a city of about 72,000 residents in eastern Pennsylvania where Bethlehem Steel once stood tall.

“They gave me no script,” he said.

Asked about the fact that Thomas isn’t registered in Pennsylvania, Clinton campaign spokesman Mark Nevins said: “Clyde has deep roots in Pennsylvania and is moving back to the state after having voted in New Jersey in their primary for Hillary Clinton.”

Thomas said he plans to register to vote in Pennsylvania ahead of the November election.

Otter
04-17-2008, 03:58 AM
After watching the whole Barry vs. Billery debate I can tell you from someone who is totally unbiased that it was a push. Whatever the numbers are now is what's going to transpire come the election.

It's great how the illegal immigration factor is totally being ignored but handguns and whether your white or black dominate the table.

We have 1.2 million unemployed US citizens yet Billery and Barry in their infinite wisdom somehow see the need for illegal occupants to fill jobs.

I wonder who benefits from that one?

Sorry to change the subject on you Jaz but that's a sore point with me.

So does your vote go to Larry, Moe or Curly?

MichaelH
04-17-2008, 04:18 AM
Anyone that thinks that Hillary Clinton is an honest and caring person is an idiot. She's a perfect politician in that she plays the game that's needed to line her own pockets. I say screw them all, I'm voting for Bono.

Saggysack
04-17-2008, 05:59 AM
After watching the whole Barry vs. Billery debate I can tell you from someone who is totally unbiased

Yeah, I can see that.

Baby Lee
04-17-2008, 06:35 AM
Why does jAZ hate strong intelligent women?

memyselfI
04-17-2008, 06:38 AM
So in 1995 Clinton was bashing Kotter Dems while Obama was meeting with Bill Ayers.

One means something while the other doesn't?

Otter
04-17-2008, 06:53 AM
Yeah, I can see that.

Care to elaborate?

Chief Henry
04-17-2008, 07:43 AM
Not too long ago Bill Ayres said that he wish he would have done more!!!
More of what? Bombings thats what.

On 9-11, yes that 9-11 he showed no remorse for bombing and killing people.

The dems are in quandry thats for sure grob

Baby Lee
04-17-2008, 07:59 AM
I understand her frustration at the time. Reagan Democrats aren't Democrats.

She'd actually gain points in my book if she turned full heel and just started blasting them rather than apologizing. It'd be more honest.

She didn't say 'I'm frustrated.' She told the President of the United States that he didn't owe a sector of citizens anything.

banyon
04-17-2008, 08:07 AM
Not too long ago Bill Ayres said that he wish he would have done more!!!
More of what? Bombings thats what.

On 9-11, yes that 9-11 he showed no remorse for bombing and killing people.

The dems are in quandry thats for sure grob

Obama said that?

Chief Henry
04-17-2008, 08:18 AM
Obama said that?

I wonder who said that ?

banyon
04-17-2008, 08:20 AM
I wonder who said that ?

I was just wondering what standard we were holding people to. Does this mean that anything anybody connected with McCain said, no matter how tenuous the connection, is also important for us to bring up?

banyon
04-17-2008, 08:38 AM
OH I SEE.

http://www.nigelsmith.net/assets/images/head_up_arse.jpg

Saggysack
04-17-2008, 08:43 AM
Care to elaborate?

Not really, no.

Chief Henry
04-17-2008, 08:47 AM
OH I SEE.

http://www.nigelsmith.net/assets/images/head_up_arse.jpg

You need to shave big boy. I know your pizzed at how the curtain is being
pulled back on your favorite candidate. Don't take it out on me. I'm not the one that has fallen for his drivel and nothingness.

banyon
04-17-2008, 08:51 AM
You need to shave big boy. I know your pizzed at how the curtain is being
pulled back on your favorite candidate. Don't take it out on me. I'm not the one that has fallen for his drivel and nothingness.

He wasn't my favorite candidate. And I note you still didn't answer my question, so it's apparent where you're coming from, your juvenile language aside.

patteeu
04-17-2008, 08:59 AM
Hillary is put off by working class people who voted Republican. Obama is put off by working class people who believe in a right to bear arms, who have religious faith, and who oppose illegal immigration. One of these things is more reasonable than the other, IMO.

NewChief
04-17-2008, 09:06 AM
Hillary is put off by working class people who voted Republican. Obama is put off by working class people who believe in a right to bear arms, who have religious faith, and who oppose illegal immigration. One of these things is more reasonable than the other, IMO.

The only thing that's unreasonable here is your parsing of Obama's words to mean that he was "put off" by them. I can see how, though, in your upside down world that empathy or understanding would be the same as "screw 'em."

Otter
04-17-2008, 09:10 AM
Not really, no.

Then shut your pie hole

Chief Henry
04-17-2008, 09:19 AM
He wasn't my favorite candidate. And I note you still didn't answer my question, so it's apparent where you're coming from, your juvenile language aside.

If you watched the debate, then you know who said it. I'm guessing you've already googled who said it and you aready know what a dispicable man he his.

Have a good day being a bitter man in fly over country.

Mr. Laz
04-17-2008, 09:19 AM
I believe her actual quote was "**** those inbred bible thumping, gun humping, abortion clinic bombing, banjo playing, web footed one tooth Republicans."

hey .... if she would of said that then she might of gotten my vote.

patteeu
04-17-2008, 09:43 AM
The only thing that's unreasonable here is your parsing of Obama's words to mean that he was "put off" by them. I can see how, though, in your upside down world that empathy or understanding would be the same as "screw 'em."

Obama listed 5 different things that people "cling" to to explain their economic frustrations. You don't use that word and then mix things you approve of in a list with racism and xenophobia. That list is a window into Obama's true identity. He's got problems with some aspect of guns, religion, anti-immigrant sentiments, racism, and protectionism.

FWIW, I don't think it means he is against all religion. I think it means he's "put off" by conservative religiosity (anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, abstinence, etc.)

The only reason this statement should give liberals reason to pause is the indication that he sees protectionist sentiment as undesirable. For liberals who are strong protectionists (e.g. big labor), they should take this statement as a warning that Obama is more of a free trader than he lets on (to anyone but the Canadians of course).

Saggysack
04-17-2008, 09:54 AM
Then shut your pie hole

Hmmm, how to respond.

I could go with, Oh, one of those guys, huh? An internet tough guy, huh?
Why don't you come make me Mr. internet tough guy. Or I could go with, Not really, no.

Which would you choose?

NewChief
04-17-2008, 09:56 AM
Obama listed 5 different things that people "cling" to to explain their economic frustrations. You don't use that word and then mix things you approve of in a list with racism and xenophobia. That list is a window into Obama's true identity. He's got problems with some aspect of guns, religion, anti-immigrant sentiments, racism, and protectionism.


ROFL ROFL ROFL

You can actually type that window into his true identity line with a straight face? I don't think he has problems with it. I think he sees those issues as rallying points for conservative working and middle class people that eclipse the positive issues that liberals offer that same class of people. In other words, they're so wrapped up in god, guns, and gays that they often vote against their own economic self-interest. This is the thesis of Thomas Frank's What's the Matter with Kansas, and I'd hazard a guess that is where Obama got the line from.

BucEyedPea
04-17-2008, 10:09 AM
I think he sees those issues as rallying points for conservative working and middle class people that eclipse the positive issues that liberals offer that same class of people.

Those people do not see the things liberals offer as positive though. Liberals see them as positive. That's the problem here.
Those guys see liberals ( I prefer leftists) as trying to change their lifestyle and ways or worse as meddling social engineering when they just want to be left alone. The two worlds envision completely different paradigms...and they oppose each other more than complement each other. They can't be reconciled. Obama cannot change them or this.

Otter
04-17-2008, 10:12 AM
Hmmm, how to respond.

I could go with, Oh, one of those guys, huh? An internet tough guy, huh?
Why don't you come make me Mr. internet tough guy. Or I could go with, Not really, no.

Which would you choose?

Not sure how this turned into a pissing match, I'm guessing it was the "pie hole" comment. Sorry that's the way I talk, I assure you it wasn't a SaggySack exclusive.

I'll go into gentleman mode here; explain your comment or I'll consider the subject dropped.

BucEyedPea
04-17-2008, 10:13 AM
Obama is put off by working class people who believe in a right to bear arms, who have religious faith, and who oppose illegal immigration. One of these things is more reasonable than the other, IMO.
Was he put off or making an observation? Sounded more like an observation to me from a liberal pov was all.

patteeu
04-17-2008, 10:36 AM
ROFL ROFL ROFL

You can actually type that window into his true identity line with a straight face? I don't think he has problems with it. I think he sees those issues as rallying points for conservative working and middle class people that eclipse the positive issues that liberals offer that same class of people. In other words, they're so wrapped up in god, guns, and gays that they often vote against their own economic self-interest. This is the thesis of Thomas Frank's What's the Matter with Kansas, and I'd hazard a guess that is where Obama got the line from.

So you don't think he believes there's anything wrong with (a) being against most forms of gun control, (b) being opposed to gay marriage, almost all abortions, condom distribution, safe sex education in schools, (c) racism, (d) anti-immigrant sentiments, and (e) favoring serious protectionism? I do. It makes no sense to combine things you approve of with things you disapprove of in the same list and then use a verb with such strongly negative connotations as the word "cling".

I don't expect you to be offended by what Obama believes because I know you're a fairly liberal guy and with the possible exception of the protectionism part of his statement, he's saying nothing particularly offensive to orthodox lefties, IMO. But I'm not going to go along with the charade that Obama is everything to all people. His statement was condescending and elitist in addition to being predominantly left-friendly and those with conservative values are correct to interpret them that way and aren't offbase to take offense.

patteeu
04-17-2008, 10:39 AM
Was he put off or making an observation? Sounded more like an observation to me from a liberal pov was all.

It was a condescending observation about how some dopes in the working class foolishly vote Republican because they're attracted to positions that Obama and other elitist lefties are put off by.

BucEyedPea
04-17-2008, 11:23 AM
It was a condescending observation about how some dopes in the working class foolishly vote Republican because they're attracted to positions that Obama and other elitist lefties are put off by.
I heard the tone of that and it didn't sound condescending to me.Sounded more matter-of-fact. Bur you're entitled to that view.
How is it any less condescending, than those on the right with their pet peeves about those who support the left...spoken with belligerence and anger?

jAZ
04-17-2008, 11:31 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=77631&stc=1&d=1208440736

You don't have to agree with this to think this is really funny.

patteeu
04-17-2008, 11:31 AM
I heard the tone of that and it didn't sound condescending to me.Sounded more matter-of-fact. Bur you're entitled to that view.
How is it any less condescending, than those on the right with their pet peeves about those who support the left...spoken with belligerence and anger?

I don't know, how is it?

BucEyedPea
04-17-2008, 11:34 AM
I dunno. I asked you.

Really,pat it's a guilt by association thing and it's a substitute for real arguments.

NewChief
04-17-2008, 11:34 AM
You don't have to agree with this to think this is really funny.

Did you catch Michelle Obama on Colbert? Hilarious riff on the snob/elitist thing:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/16/michelle-obama-charms-colbert/

“Everybody knows you and your husband are elitists,” Mr. Colbert said right off the bat. “Tell me about your elite upbringing on the South Side of Chicago. How many silver spoons in your mouth?”
“We had four spoons,” deadpanned Mrs. Obama during her late night talk show debut.
She added: “And then my father got a raise at the plant, and we had five spoons.”
“That sounds posh,” replied Mr. Colbert.

patteeu
04-17-2008, 11:35 AM
You don't have to agree with this to think this is really funny.

I'm glad you can set politics aside for a moment and appreciate it. I thought it was fairly clever.

One of the things that struck me about it was the way aloof pose displayed in the picture. I was watching an Obama political appearance the other day and he was standing behind and off to the side of the person at the podium who was introducing him. As he stood there, he had that face-upturned and head turned slightly to the side pose just like in this picture. I haven't seen Obama enough since then to notice whether this is a standard pose for him or not.

Saggysack
04-17-2008, 11:35 AM
Not sure how this turned into a pissing match, I'm guessing it was the "pie hole" comment. Sorry that's the way I talk, I assure you it wasn't a SaggySack exclusive.

I'll go into gentleman mode here; explain your comment or I'll consider the subject dropped.

Nah, I just trying to bring myself a laugh. No pissing match.

Nobody is unbiased. It's against human nature. The bias may be subtle enough that it doesn't affect the persons decision making, but there is still a bias.

keg in kc
04-17-2008, 11:36 AM
It's like bizarroworld, people on ChiefsPlanet defending Hillary Clinton.

BucEyedPea
04-17-2008, 11:54 AM
“Everybody knows you and your husband are elitists,” Mr. Colbert said right off the bat. “Tell me about your elite upbringing on the South Side of Chicago. How many silver spoons in your mouth?”
LMAO That's hilarious.



FWIW I think what the right means by "elites" is the "intellectuals" who claim to know better what is right or good for the average person instead of himself. Then they tinker with people's lifestyles by passing laws forcing them to abide by what the intellectuals feel are improvements or "making things better." What is better is a matter of opinion.

jAZ
04-17-2008, 12:24 PM
I'm glad you can set politics aside for a moment and appreciate it. I thought it was fairly clever.

One of the things that struck me about it was the way aloof pose displayed in the picture. I was watching an Obama political appearance the other day and he was standing behind and off to the side of the person at the podium who was introducing him. As he stood there, he had that face-upturned and head turned slightly to the side pose just like in this picture. I haven't seen Obama enough since then to notice whether this is a standard pose for him or not.

Since you are giving up the joke and getting serious. Who gives a crap. We all know it's politically impactful to others, but seriously, anyone who gives a crap about it over policy issues. Explain why.

Donger
04-17-2008, 12:31 PM
Since you are giving up the joke and getting serious. Who gives a crap. We all know it's politically impactful to others, but seriously, anyone who gives a crap about it over policy issues. Explain why.

70% how you look
20% how you sound
10% what you say

Baby Lee
04-17-2008, 12:36 PM
I heard the tone of that and it didn't sound condescending to me.Sounded more matter-of-fact. Bur you're entitled to that view.
How is it any less condescending, than those on the right with their pet peeves about those who support the left...spoken with belligerence and anger?

Condescension has nothing to do with a lack or overabundance of emotion.

If condescension has a hallmark, it'd probably be it's 'matter of fact' transmission.

Like say, "you can't blame BEP for her lack of semantic savvy, she's a girl." ;)

HolmeZz
04-17-2008, 12:52 PM
The only people who gave a shit about Obama's comments were:

1) Hillary and McCain supporters(I think they're one in the same now)

2) Anyone who interpreted him to be talking about people's personal lives and not speaking about those things in political terms

patteeu
04-17-2008, 01:06 PM
Since you are giving up the joke and getting serious. Who gives a crap. We all know it's politically impactful to others, but seriously, anyone who gives a crap about it over policy issues. Explain why.

Does it have policy implications when President Bush stumbles over his words and makes a funny grammatical error? Not really. But it obviously can have a big political impact and some people might even argue that it makes him less capable of representing our country well than a more polished speaker.

Did it matter when President Bush and Dick "Big Time" Cheney exchanged unflattering remarks about Adam Clymer? It shouldn't in terms of policy, but I'm sure that some people were offended by the phrase "major league asshole".

Obama's aloof stance, if it's typical, may well exacerbate his problem with people who think he's an elitist. Does it have anything to do with policy? Not really. Is it something to consider in a President? Sure (although I personally don't care about it).

BucEyedPea
04-17-2008, 01:14 PM
Condescension has nothing to do with a lack or overabundance of emotion.

If condescension has a hallmark, it'd probably be it's 'matter of fact' transmission.

Like say, "you can't blame BEP for her lack of semantic savvy, she's a girl." ;)
No I don't think a "matter of fact" is a hallmark necessarily either.

Granted he observes the world as a liberal would so it's to be expected he'd see those things that way. He doesn't agree with it. That doesn't imply condescension or smugness. I think tone and how it's said has something to do with it.

banyon
04-17-2008, 02:46 PM
If you watched the debate, then you know who said it. I'm guessing you've already googled who said it and you aready know what a dispicable man he his.

Have a good day being a bitter man in fly over country.

Says the great metropolitan from Iowa. :spock:


In any event I'll take your refusal to answer the question about McCain as a concession that you're not willing to hold your candidate to the same standard.

Otter
04-17-2008, 11:29 PM
Nah, I just trying to bring myself a laugh. No pissing match.

Nobody is unbiased. It's against human nature. The bias may be subtle enough that it doesn't affect the persons decision making, but there is still a bias.

On the issues important to me they are both equally worthless. Hence why I "think" I can look at them unbiased.

No offense meant on the previos comments.

Logical
04-18-2008, 01:20 AM
Not too long ago Bill Ayres said that he wish he would have done more!!!
More of what? Bombings thats what.

On 9-11, yes that 9-11 he showed no remorse for bombing and killing people.

The dems are in quandry thats for sure grob

Hey wait the towers came down because jets crashed into them and fire, so how could more bombing enter the picture?

Saggysack
04-18-2008, 02:42 AM
On the issues important to me they are both equally worthless. Hence why I "think" I can look at them unbiased.

No offense meant on the previos comments.

Just to make sure I'm following you right.

You believe the on issues important to you, both from Hillary and Obama are both equally worthless on those issues?

Wouldn't stating you think they are worthless, show a bias? I mean, how can one think something is worthless if they aren't biased against it.

Chief Henry
04-18-2008, 09:12 AM
Hey wait the towers came down because jets crashed into them and fire, so how could more bombing enter the picture?


:spock:

Chief Henry
04-18-2008, 09:13 AM
Says the great metropolitan from Iowa. :spock:


In any event I'll take your refusal to answer the question about McCain as a concession that you're not willing to hold your candidate to the same standard.


Banyon, I bet you can't wait untill you get back to eastern KS ROFL

Otter
04-18-2008, 07:47 PM
Just to make sure I'm following you right.

You believe the on issues important to you, both from Hillary and Obama are both equally worthless on those issues?

Wouldn't stating you think they are worthless, show a bias? I mean, how can one think something is worthless if they aren't biased against it.

Saggy you sound like a philosophy major and I quit smoking pot years ago. Well unless someone has some good white widow and I'm in Vegas.

Billery and Barry are both the equivalent of Carl Peterson to me and I'm equally unimpressed. The playing field is level.