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View Full Version : Chiefs What do you trade Allen for, legitimately?


Direckshun
04-17-2008, 12:51 PM
Poll to come.

Direckshun
04-17-2008, 12:52 PM
Remember -- this is not what you WANT, but what you think is legit.

StcChief
04-17-2008, 12:53 PM
2008 #1 2009 #1

Mr. Plow
04-17-2008, 12:53 PM
1st & 3rd. Picks would have to be 15 or lower.

keg in kc
04-17-2008, 12:54 PM
Since we're talking about teams that draft in the 15-20 range, I wouldn't trade him for less than a 1st and 2nd this year or a 1st this year and next (equivalent trade values in my mind).

Micjones
04-17-2008, 12:55 PM
A #1 and a #3.

Hoover
04-17-2008, 12:56 PM
It would take a 1st and 2nd this year, or a 1st and 4th this year, and a 2nd next year

Bob Dole
04-17-2008, 01:07 PM
Makes a whole lot of sense to go to the trouble to FRANCHISE a guy and then let him go for less compensation than is outlined in the CBA.

Adept Havelock
04-17-2008, 01:09 PM
It would take a 1st and 2nd this year, or a 1st and 4th this year, and a 2nd next year

At the very least, IMO.

I'm sure Carl will manage to come away with far less than that.

keg in kc
04-17-2008, 01:10 PM
I'm sure Carl will manage to come away with far less than that.That's what I'm concerned about.

I don't mind trading Allen. But it better be for substantial value and it better be the other guys getting the short end of the stick.

stlchiefs
04-17-2008, 01:11 PM
From my understanding of draft value isn't a 1st this year and 1st next year equal to a 1st and 2nd this year? In a trade if we went for a 1st and 1st I'd want a stipulation that if their 1st next year was under #20 or so we'd get an additional pick (4th round or so).

Bowser
04-17-2008, 01:11 PM
Makes a whole lot of sense to go to the trouble to FRANCHISE a guy and then let him go for less compensation than is outlined in the CBA.

Thank you.

IF we trade him, and IF we get less than two first round picks, we will be the laughing stock of the NFL (OK, more of a laughing stock). And IF this happens, Clark needs to walk straight into Carl's office and shitcan him on the spot.

Rain Man
04-17-2008, 01:12 PM
NEVEERRR!!!1

CupidStunt
04-17-2008, 01:13 PM
Two 1s. You have to get the pick for next year and pray Tarvaris Jackson stinks out the joint.

eazyb81
04-17-2008, 01:13 PM
1st and 2nd this year or 1st this year and 1st next year.

bowener
04-17-2008, 01:15 PM
2008 #1 2009 #1

Thats what I want. A full on anal-cornholing of the other team, maybe even squeeze their balls a little more and get some juice out of them... a 3rd rounder this year??? Too much?

DaKCMan AP
04-17-2008, 01:15 PM
Thank you.

IF we trade him, and IF we get less than two first round picks, we will be the laughing stock of the NFL (OK, more of a laughing stock). And IF this happens, Clark needs to walk straight into Carl's office and shitcan him on the spot.

Deion Branch, the Pats franchise player, was traded for a single 1st round pick in 2006.

Zouk
04-17-2008, 01:16 PM
I think people may be failing to understand the discount that 1 night away from a yearlong suspension represents. I wouldn't be shocked if it was the 1st round pick only.

bowener
04-17-2008, 01:17 PM
Deion Branch, the Pats franchise player, was traded for a single 1st round pick in 2006.

Branch wasnt the player that Allen is. Granted he wasnt the drunk either.

FD
04-17-2008, 01:17 PM
None of those is enough, IMO, you need to be ridiculously compensated for a player like Allen.

bowener
04-17-2008, 01:17 PM
I think people may be failing to understand the discount that 1 night away from a yearlong suspension represents. I wouldn't be shocked if it was the 1st round pick only.

Very true. But it seems the Vikes think they are one player away or there abouts... so do understand the smell of desperation by a new owner to win big fast.

alpha_omega
04-17-2008, 01:18 PM
Nothing short of 2 #1's.

Bowser
04-17-2008, 01:18 PM
Deion Branch, the Pats franchise player, was traded for a single 1st round pick in 2006.

Stupid, imo, unless that was their intent in the first place - thinking that they could get by without him, or that the player had "peaked". I certainly hope the Chiefs don't feel that way about Allen the player.

ChiTown
04-17-2008, 01:19 PM
I think people may be failing to understand the discount that 1 night away from a yearlong suspension represents. I wouldn't be shocked if it was the 1st round pick only.

and I think you are failing to understand what the CBA says for compensation of Franchised player's. I'd be completely shocked if we get anything less than 2 1's or a 1 and 2 this year

Psyko Tek
04-17-2008, 01:19 PM
ask way too much
we don't want to get rid of him
so the other team better really want him

Zouk
04-17-2008, 01:19 PM
Very true. But it seems the Vikes think they are one player away or there abouts... so do understand the smell of desperation by a new owner to win big fast.

ESPN's article seems to indicate that it's Minnesota's 1st plus more, so I guess my worst fears won't be realized.

Zouk
04-17-2008, 01:21 PM
and I think you are failing to understand what the CBA says for compensation of Franchised player's. I'd be completely shocked if we get anything less than 2 1's or a 1 and 2 this year

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Browns-acquire-Williams-from-Packers?urn=nfl,69338

DaKCMan AP
04-17-2008, 01:26 PM
Branch wasnt the player that Allen is. Granted he wasnt the drunk either.

Since 2004 only 2 franchised players were traded:

Deion Branch - to Seattle for a 1st round pick

John Abraham - to Atlanta for a 1st round pick (#29 overall)

Bowser
04-17-2008, 01:31 PM
Since 2004 only 2 franchised players were traded:

Deion Branch - to Seattle for a 1st round pick

John Abraham - to Atlanta for a 1st round pick (#29 overall)

That's dumb. Why settle for less than what the CBA allows you?

Rooster
04-17-2008, 01:33 PM
From the Bucs I want this years 1st and 2nd plus the rights to Jake Plummer.

From the Vikes I want this years 1st next years 1st and the number to the Love Boat place.

Old Dog
04-17-2008, 01:39 PM
'08 1st, '09 1st, conditional '09 4th if the '09 first is #21 or below

DaKCMan AP
04-17-2008, 01:40 PM
That's dumb. Why settle for less than what the CBA allows you?

Because you have a disgruntled player who wants to leave and other teams aren't willing to give up 2 #1's?

Bacon Cheeseburger
04-17-2008, 01:40 PM
I think people may be failing to understand the discount that 1 night away from a yearlong suspension represents. I wouldn't be shocked if it was the 1st round pick only.
B-b-b-but he says he's cured. Doesn't his word mean anything?

Chiefnj2
04-17-2008, 01:42 PM
If Carl wasn't willing to give up Wesley for a 4th round pick last year, there is no way he will be reasonable enough to get rid of Allen.

markk
04-17-2008, 01:56 PM
you guys are insane if you think we're getting two firsts for him. when was the last time any player was actually traded for two firsts?

if we get offered a first and second this year we should absolutely accept. I'd take a first this year and a second next year, or some other combination

CupidStunt
04-17-2008, 02:00 PM
you guys are insane if you think we're getting two firsts for him. when was the last time any player was actually traded for two firsts?


When was the last time an elite DE was traded?

Borderline guys like Corey Williams get traded for second-round picks these days. The market is there for Allen. Remember, with Allen the Vikings must think they're championship contenders. The No. 17 pick this year and the No. 25-32 pick next year is NOT THAT MUCH to pay for an elite pass-rusher.

It's doubtful that the Chiefs get two players who combine to produce more than Allen.

patteeu
04-17-2008, 02:00 PM
I'm skeptical of the reports. All it sounds like to me is that Jared Allen and his agent are aggressively pursuing potential trade partners and they want us to know that they've found at least 1 or 2 teams interested enough to call Carl up and inquire. He didn't really acknowledge that the Chiefs were interested enough to give in on the two 1st round pick price tag that JA is wearing right now. For this reason, I'm still cautiously optimistic that a deal won't really happen.

In this poll, I said two 1sts because the Chiefs don't have any choice but to accept that deal if they can't match any offers made to Allen. I can't see how it makes sense to trade Allen even at that price though, unless they are really worried about him falling off the wagon.

el borracho
04-17-2008, 02:23 PM
If it were up to me, I wouldn't trade Allen even for two 1sts, unless those 1sts were in the top half of the draft (each higher than 15).

Anything less and I am going to freak out:

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Pestilence
04-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Two 1st round picks and Chad Greenway.

beach tribe
04-17-2008, 02:44 PM
I can't believe some people would pull the trigger on a first, and third.

Those two picks have to be the equivelent of damn near, if not, the best DE in the game today.

Guess what, They won't.

Direckshun
04-17-2008, 02:45 PM
Keep in mind that two 1sts, one of them being 2009's, is essentially the same value as a 1st and 2nd in this year's Draft.

Next year's 1st, if the Vikes land Allen, will be in the 20-25 range. In the second round this year, the Vikes have pick #17.

So, virtually the same talent...

ChiefsCountry
04-17-2008, 02:45 PM
1st and 3rd in this year's draft would be about the norm. Team arent going to give two first rounders for any player anymore.

markk
04-17-2008, 02:46 PM
Two 1st round picks and Chad Greenway.

they counter with two thirds and dimitrius underwood

Mile High Mania
04-17-2008, 02:47 PM
I don't think a R1 pick will be received for the guy, unless it's in the mid 20's or later...

I would think maybe a late R1 and R3 maybe... I think some of you are being way too optimistic.

Bowser
04-17-2008, 02:49 PM
If it were me, the first offer would be to ask for the Vike's first rounders in '08 and '09, giving them Jared Allen and a sixth rounder. I would go NO LOWER than their first and second rounders this year, with maybe switching draft positions in the third round.

dirk digler
04-17-2008, 02:51 PM
1st and 3rd in this year's draft would be about the norm. Team arent going to give two first rounders for any player anymore.

I would probably do that deal but it would have to be in this year's draft not next years.

BigRedChief
04-17-2008, 02:52 PM
If it were me, the first offer would be to ask for the Vike's first rounders in '08 and '09, giving them Jared Allen and a sixth rounder. I would go NO LOWER than their first and second rounders this year, with maybe switching draft positions in the third round.
The best deal being reported is a 1st this year and a 2nd in 2009.

JBucc
04-17-2008, 02:55 PM
I'd take a 1st in 3rd in this years draft. A first this year and a first next year would also work, but a first this year is a must.

KCChiefsMan
04-17-2008, 02:56 PM
trade a proven player at DE and draft a couple of busts in exchange. no thanks, I don't trust Carl drafting a player that could touch JA

Bowser
04-17-2008, 02:56 PM
The best deal being reported is a 1st this year and a 2nd in 2009.

Not good enough.

ChiefsCountry
04-17-2008, 02:58 PM
The best deal being reported is a 1st this year and a 2nd in 2009.

That would basically be the same as a 1st and 3rd this year.

Direckshun
04-17-2008, 02:58 PM
no thanks, I don't trust Carl drafting a player that could touch JA
...you do realize Carl drafted JA, right?

beach tribe
04-17-2008, 03:00 PM
...you do realize Carl drafted JA, right?
I knew that was comingROFL

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.............

Direckshun
04-17-2008, 03:10 PM
Best deal I've heard are the Vikings offering their 1st and their 2nd in next year's Draft.

Bucs are offering a 1st this year and a 5th in 2009.

MTG#10
04-17-2008, 03:12 PM
Who cares? We'll still have Bobby Sippio.

sedated
04-17-2008, 03:15 PM
Could we get 2 first-rounders if we throw in his restaurant?

Pestilence
04-17-2008, 03:15 PM
What about a 1st and 3rd this year....and their 2nd next year?

Direckshun
04-17-2008, 03:16 PM
I don't even know if I'd turn down a 1st and 2nd round pick in 2009.

We are rebuilding....

CupidStunt
04-17-2008, 03:21 PM
We really should use Minnesota to drive the price up, but how serious is Tampa Bay? People only look at the three-pick difference in this year's draft, but the Vikings will be much better than the Bucs. I'd be surprised if the Bucs crack seven wins this coming season. A 2008 first-rounder, fourth-rounder and a 2009 second-rounder would be alright. Ideally, I'd love to get Tampa's 2009 first-rounder. I just don't like that team too much, and would love to get a shot at a top prospect next year.

sedated
04-17-2008, 03:22 PM
This rebuilding talk is crap.

We could have a dominant DE for the next 6-8 years. If we are good in 3 years, he'll be 29 and most likely at the peak of his career.

Direckshun
04-17-2008, 03:24 PM
I would love to get a shot at a top prospect next year.
Where do you think the Chiefs will be drafting?

Chest Rockwell
04-17-2008, 03:26 PM
What about a 1st and 3rd this year....and their 2nd next year?

Their 2nd this year is equal to both their 3rds AND their 4th according to the value chart. I'd do their 1st and 2nd this year. If they want to feck around with anything else, I'd tell 'em 1st and 3rd this year and a 2nd and 3rd next (going with the school of thought that next years picks are devalued a round that basically equates to 1st, both 3rds and 4th this year...which is same value as 1st and 2nd).

This is a situation where you absolutely do not accept anything less than what you want.

Pestilence
04-17-2008, 03:34 PM
Their 2nd this year is equal to both their 3rds AND their 4th according to the value chart. I'd do their 1st and 2nd this year. If they want to feck around with anything else, I'd tell 'em 1st and 3rd this year and a 2nd and 3rd next (going with the school of thought that next years picks are devalued a round that basically equates to 1st, both 3rds and 4th this year...which is same value as 1st and 2nd).

This is a situation where you absolutely do not accept anything less than what you want.


What about a 1st and 3rd this year....and a conditional 2nd next year? If he gets more than 10 sacks...then we get a 1st rounder. If not...then we get a 2nd.

keg in kc
04-17-2008, 03:34 PM
What about a 1st and 3rd this year....and a conditional 2nd next year? If he gets more than 10 sacks...then we get a 1st rounder. If not...then we get a 2nd.I'd be all over that.

J Diddy
04-17-2008, 03:37 PM
This rebuilding talk is crap.

We could have a dominant DE for the next 6-8 years. If we are good in 3 years, he'll be 29 and most likely at the peak of his career.


yeah but would you rather have a dominant de or 2 to 3 starters

Adept Havelock
04-17-2008, 03:40 PM
yeah but would you rather have a dominant de or 2 to 3 starters

I'm far from convinced Carl/Herm can turn those picks from a trade into 2 or 3 starters. What have you seen that makes you think they can? :shrug:

J Diddy
04-17-2008, 03:42 PM
I'm far from convinced Carl/Herm can turn those picks from a trade into 2 or 3 starters. What have you seen that makes you think they can? :shrug:

The jury's still out on the majority of the players, but I like herms drafts better than the predecessors

thurman merman
04-17-2008, 03:42 PM
absolutely nothing.

i never have, and never will, understand the idea of trading a proven player for unproven draft picks.

chop
04-17-2008, 03:43 PM
I posted this in another thread but this is probably the better place to put the link.

This is what mostly Viking fans (some Tampa Bay and 1 Jax fan) are saying about possibly getting Allen.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=222893&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Count Zarth
04-17-2008, 03:44 PM
I posted over at purple pride a few minutes ago.

http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?board=52.0

stlchiefs
04-17-2008, 03:44 PM
yeah but would you rather have a dominant de or 2 to 3 starters

2 or 3 starters out of 2 or 3 picks? ROFL What world are you living in? Even 1st round draft picks are a 50/50 shot. This management can't even draft a Kicker when there are only 2 draft worthy kickers to choose from.

vailpass
04-17-2008, 03:46 PM
IMHO A first this year and a third next year would be an excellent deal for a DE who will never sign another contract with KC. What if JA gets hurt this year, or his production goes down? Do you want to use up the tag on him every year?

If Carl never intends to give JA the big-time contract then it would seem to make sense to get something for him while you can. Past trades of tagged players indicate a first and third are a very solid deal.

stlchiefs
04-17-2008, 03:46 PM
I posted this in another thread but this is probably the better place to put the link.

This is what mostly Viking fans (some Tampa Bay and 1 Jax fan) are saying about possibly getting Allen.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=222893&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Screw those Purple Headed Monster Eaters

stlchiefs
04-17-2008, 03:49 PM
IMHO A first this year and a third next year would be an excellent deal for a DE who will never sign another contract with KC. What if JA gets hurt this year, or his production goes down? Do you want to use up the tag on him every year?

If Carl never intends to give JA the big-time contract then it would seem to make sense to get something for him while you can. Past trades of tagged players indicate a first and third are a very solid deal.

Or we could send the worthless GM packing who has given us plenty of years of this chit and brought everything to this point.

vailpass
04-17-2008, 03:52 PM
Or we could send the worthless GM packing who has given us plenty of years of this chit and brought everything to this point.

Wonder if Cowher would have any interest in the GM role for his old team?

stlchiefs
04-17-2008, 03:55 PM
Wonder if Cowher would have any interest in the GM role for his old team?

Why waste him as GM? Carl and Herm can pack together for their trip to UCLA if we could get Bill.

KurtCobain
04-17-2008, 04:18 PM
I want two firsts, but I think Carl'll pull off this years 2nd and next years 1st.

BIG_DADDY
04-17-2008, 04:19 PM
If they would take Carl and Herm with him they can have him for free.

KurtCobain
04-17-2008, 04:23 PM
If they would take Carl and Herm with him they can have him for free.

I'm up for it. I'll give 'em LJ and Gunther too.

Mecca
04-17-2008, 04:23 PM
The problem with this is while Allen is a top of the line player teams become less likely to give up the farm because they have to give up picks and pay him the ridiculous contract he wants and he has the deal with being 1 strike away..

Allen has outside factors that lower his overall value, if he had none the Chiefs likely wouldn't be looking to deal him. His off the field behavior is spurring this...

Bowser
04-17-2008, 04:25 PM
The problem with this is while Allen is a top of the line player teams become less likely to give up the farm because they have to give up picks and pay him the ridiculous contract he wants and he has the deal with being 1 strike away..

Allen has outside factors that lower his overall value, if he had none the Chiefs likely wouldn't be looking to deal him. His off the field behavior is spurring this...

So why are the Bucs and Vikes so interested, if he is so "high risk"?

Chiefnj2
04-17-2008, 04:28 PM
I don't see why the Vikings would do more than a 1st and 3rd. The Vikings are in position to draft Merling in the first (or perhaps Harvey in the unlikely event he slides). They could use the third on a DE as well (Brian Johnston). Not proven commodities, but a lot less money and the guys wouldn't be a strike away from a year long suspension.

Mecca
04-17-2008, 04:30 PM
So why are the Bucs and Vikes so interested, if he is so "high risk"?

Good question.....Minnesota has some pressure to win right now, Tampa who knows.

If I was a fan of one of those teams I'd be very very leery of making the move.

Adept Havelock
04-17-2008, 04:44 PM
Good question.....Minnesota has some pressure to win right now, Tampa who knows.

If I was a fan of one of those teams I'd be very very leery of making the move.

I can understand why you would support it, though. It would add another gaping hole and set back the team even further, giving you even more reasons to kvetch. :p

ChiefsCountry
04-17-2008, 04:51 PM
Minnesota needs to win now so they can get a new stadium.

Mecca
04-17-2008, 04:54 PM
I can understand why you would support it, though. It would add another gaping hole and set back the team even further, giving you even more reasons to kvetch. :p

LOL, man I want the Chiefs to be good and paying a guy who I feel will probably get a year suspension what he wants isn't a good way to get there in my view.

Bowser
04-17-2008, 04:58 PM
If Jared goes to the Vikes, that defense will be scary good.

ChiefsCountry
04-17-2008, 04:58 PM
If Allen didnt have the drinking problem cloud hanging over him, the Chiefs would be all over keeping him IMO. But the financial risk of putting that much into a player where one little slip up could cost him and the team big is too much. Minnesota can take the risk bc Allen wouldnt be their franchise guy - Kevin Williams and Adrian Peterson are.

Mecca
04-17-2008, 04:59 PM
If Allen didnt have the drinking problem cloud hanging over him, the Chiefs would be all over keeping him IMO. But the financial risk of putting that much into a player where one little slip up could cost him and the team big is too much. Minnesota can take the risk bc Allen wouldnt be their franchise guy - Kevin Williams and Adrian Peterson are.

They are also in a position where they are closer and Peterson probably won't have a long career so their view on it is much different than our teams.

Short Leash Hootie
04-17-2008, 05:01 PM
I think it's hilarious that everyone assumes Allen is an alcoholic...just because the dude liked to party and get drunk doesn't mean he's hiding fifths of vodka in his locker looking to Maurice Clarett it before practice...his suspension was a wake up call and the dude is done...he's a smart guy.

Pestilence
04-17-2008, 05:02 PM
If this trade goes down.....I'm drafting the Viking's DEF in FF.

Pestilence
04-17-2008, 05:02 PM
I think it's hilarious that everyone assumes Allen is an alcoholic...just because the dude liked to party and get drunk doesn't mean he's hiding fifths of vodka in his locker looking to Maurice Clarett it before practice...his suspension was a wake up call and the dude is done...he's a smart guy.

Hmm.....coincidence that it came in his contract year? And he owns a bar.....

Mecca
04-17-2008, 05:04 PM
Hmm.....coincidence that it came in his contract year? And he owns a bar.....

The bar thing and his "cured" speak are huge red flags....

People think Allen is a big kid and he acts that way most of the time, even if he means well immaturity is not a good thing...it could lead to him getting busted yet again.

Skip Towne
04-17-2008, 05:05 PM
I think it's hilarious that everyone assumes Allen is an alcoholic...just because the dude liked to party and get drunk doesn't mean he's hiding fifths of vodka in his locker looking to Maurice Clarett it before practice...his suspension was a wake up call and the dude is done...he's a smart guy.

Chiefaroo said Jared is a big, dumb cowboy.

Short Leash Hootie
04-17-2008, 05:06 PM
cured? What necessarily makes anyone thinks he even needed to be cured? There is a big time difference between a partier and an alcoholic...alcoholism is a disease...I know plenty of people who party 4 or 5 times a week in their 20's that aren't alcoholics...I know plenty of people with 1 or 2 DUI's that aren't alcoholics...if someone gave me 6 or 7 figures to have my name on a sports bar I'd take it in a second...

Chiefnj2
04-17-2008, 05:09 PM
Having a funny personality means he is immature?

I didn't realize there were so many doctors on this board who met and examined Allen and were able to conclude he is in fact an alcoholic.

I also didn't realize what a bunch of tea totalers we had on the board. I guess people don't party and drink too much in the midwest when they are ages 21-25.

Short Leash Hootie
04-17-2008, 05:13 PM
Having a funny personality means he is immature?

I didn't realize there were so many doctors on this board who met and examined Allen and were able to conclude he is in fact an alcoholic.

I also didn't realize what a bunch of tea totalers we had on the board. I guess people don't party and drink too much in the midwest when they are ages 21-25.

Exactly, I chuckle everytime mentions his alcohol abuse...what friggin' alcohol abuse? No one knows whether or not Jared was a problem drinker or not...he used awful judgment on more than one occasion and paid the price for that...it appears as if he's learned his lesson...

Pestilence
04-17-2008, 05:15 PM
Exactly, I chuckle everytime mentions his alcohol abuse...what friggin' alcohol abuse? No one knows whether or not Jared was a problem drinker or not...he used awful judgment on more than one occasion and paid the price for that...it appears as if he's learned his lesson...

And that lesson just happened to be learned when he wanted a new contract.

Chiefnj2
04-17-2008, 05:22 PM
And that lesson just happened to be learned when he wanted a new contract.

Yeah, getting a new contract and being traded to a team that is more of a contender than KC is a hard lesson to swallow.

Rain Man
04-17-2008, 05:35 PM
Carl's plan is to rebuild with young, good players, and to do so he's going to jettison our best young player. BURRRRRRN HIMMMMMMM!

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-17-2008, 05:45 PM
Their 1st and 3rd this year, and their 2nd and 6th next year.

Chiefnj2
04-17-2008, 05:53 PM
Their 1st and 3rd this year, and their 2nd and 6th next year.

Why give up so much for a player that the team doesn't want?

Brock
04-17-2008, 05:57 PM
Why give up so much for a player that the team doesn't want?

If they didn't want him why did they franchise him?

wazu
04-17-2008, 06:02 PM
There is no price that is worth it. You could draft 3 first rounders and be lucky if one of them ever comes close to Jared Allen's level. Allen is arguably the best pass rusher in the NFL right now, and he's still young. This is pure madness.

Rain Man
04-17-2008, 06:08 PM
There is no price that is worth it. You could draft 3 first rounders and be lucky if one of them ever comes close to Jared Allen's level. Allen is arguably the best pass rusher in the NFL right now, and he's still young. This is pure madness.

Yep.

Apparently, Carl and Jared are in a "this town isn't big enough for the two of us" battle, and Jared is the noble Robin Hood and Carl is the wicked king.

Keep Carl Peterson and lose Jared Allen?

or

Keep Jared Allen and lose Carl Peterson?

and we're going to lose our best player in order to keep the franchise's greatest deficit.

We need a United Nations intervention or something. I can't even make fun of Matt Millen any more.

Chiefaholic
04-17-2008, 06:16 PM
Keep in mind that the Chiefs have the right to match any offer on the table. If the Vikes or Bucs offer Freeney money, then take the draft compensation. If it's reasonable, then match the offer. Money cures ill feelings toward a team when they see all the extra zero's in their account balance.

I don't want top see Jared leave. But, if he's bound and determined that he'll never sign with KC if franchised and wants Freeney money, take your lumps and take the draft compensation.

Pestilence
04-17-2008, 06:37 PM
Keep in mind that the Chiefs have the right to match any offer on the table. If the Vikes or Bucs offer Freeney money, then take the draft compensation. If it's reasonable, then match the offer. Money cures ill feelings toward a team when they see all the extra zero's in their account balance.

I don't want top see Jared leave. But, if he's bound and determined that he'll never sign with KC if franchised and wants Freeney money, take your lumps and take the draft compensation.

Not if they agree to a trade for him. There is no way that Minnesota or Tampa Bay are going to offer him a contract right now because we could either match it or they have to give us two 1st round picks. They're talking about just trading him period.

Chiefnj2
04-17-2008, 06:41 PM
If they didn't want him why did they franchise him?

So they can try to get something of value for him? Because you lied to your fan base and indicated a desire to resign him?

jjchieffan
04-17-2008, 06:56 PM
I would not take less than a 1 and a 2. The only reason I would consider that would be to get the extra pick this year instead of next. If the picks are in the bottom half of the round, additional compensation would be required. In fact, the position of the picks would be a big factor. If Miami, St. Louis, or Atlanta wanted to trade I think a first and a 3rd would be us coming out great.

wazu
04-17-2008, 07:09 PM
Wow. You people have an unbelievable amount of trust in Carl's drafting ability.

morphius
04-17-2008, 07:10 PM
Obviously it should cost Carl his job for any trade. When you lose your best player on D because of a personality conflict, and your job is to make the team better, not chase off the few decent players we have left, well, its time to go.

buddha
04-17-2008, 07:18 PM
Everybody who posts something like, "it would take two first round picks" really don't have a grasp on reality. Jared is a good player. Is he a great player? No. Sorry...I hate to burst your bubbles. We love him because he was a total over achiever, but he is not an elite DE. Please don't quote sack totals to me. I know what his stats are. He was the only pass rusher KC had for the better part of his career. That might have something to do with those stats, don't you think? We aren't talking about Bruce Smith here. You aren't going to get two 1st round picks...period. If KC can get Chris Long with their own first pick and Ryan Clady or somebody similar with their 1st round pick from the trade, how would that be a crappy deal? All people do is bitch about how KC doesn't do anything dramatic...no big deals. Fine. Here is a blockbuster that could really end up benefiting KC. I didn't think this was a bad idea from the beginning. We have many areas of need...get a grip!

Chiefnj2
04-17-2008, 07:32 PM
He was the only pass rusher KC had for the better part of his career. That might have something to do with those stats, don't you think? !

You make no sense whatsoever. Since Eric Hicks was the only pass rusher KC had before Allen, why didn't he consistently put up big #'s of sacks and forced fumbles?

Adept Havelock
04-17-2008, 07:40 PM
Obviously it should cost Carl his job for any trade. When you lose your best player on D because of a personality conflict, and your job is to make the team better, not chase off the few decent players we have left, well, its time to go.

Well said.

OnTheWarpath58
04-17-2008, 07:48 PM
Obviously it should cost Carl his job for any trade. When you lose your best player on D because of a personality conflict, and your job is to make the team better, not chase off the few decent players we have left, well, its time to go.

Jeff, they aren't trading him over a personality conflict.

They're trading him over $80-100M and the knowledge that if he has ANY contact with alcohol or drugs, he takes a year-long vacation.

Chest Rockwell
04-17-2008, 07:52 PM
Everybody who posts something like, "it would take two first round picks" really don't have a grasp on reality. Jared is a good player. Is he a great player? No. Sorry...I hate to burst your bubbles. We love him because he was a total over achiever, but he is not an elite DE. Please don't quote sack totals to me. I know what his stats are. He was the only pass rusher KC had for the better part of his career. That might have something to do with those stats, don't you think? We aren't talking about Bruce Smith here. You aren't going to get two 1st round picks...period. If KC can get Chris Long with their own first pick and Ryan Clady or somebody similar with their 1st round pick from the trade, how would that be a crappy deal? All people do is bitch about how KC doesn't do anything dramatic...no big deals. Fine. Here is a blockbuster that could really end up benefiting KC. I didn't think this was a bad idea from the beginning. We have many areas of need...get a grip!

Obviously he's being overvalued for a lot of reason by a lot of people, and obviously we really don't actually know what the situation is exactly at this point.

I'd love to see the guy stick around, but won't be terribly butt-hurt to see him go. I'd rather see the team get something for him than franchise him again then watch him walk for free.

What we do know is he obviously doesn't want to be in KC long term, and he is a bit of a risk.

I'm not so sure that anyone is "so interested" in him at this point. The more I'm hearing about this, the more it sounds like Jared and his agent have gone out and solicited interest, but it's obviously not enough interest that someone's willing to give him an offer sheet. Two 1s is way too steep a price, but if someone was really "that interested" I'm sure they'd come up with something better than a 1st and 3rd or 1st and 5th (which is all just rumor at this point anyway).

It seems like the teams that are interested are only interested if they can try to take advantage of the circumstances and get a bargain.

OnTheWarpath58
04-17-2008, 07:58 PM
Obviously he's being overvalued for a lot of reason by a lot of people, and obviously we really don't actually know what the situation is exactly at this point.

I'd love to see the guy stick around, but won't be terribly butt-hurt to see him go. I'd rather see the team get something for him than franchise him again then watch him walk for free.

What we do know is he obviously doesn't want to be in KC long term, and he is a bit of a risk.

I'm not so sure that anyone is "so interested" in him at this point. The more I'm hearing about this, the more it sounds like Jared and his agent have gone out and solicited interest, but it's obviously not enough interest that someone's willing to give him an offer sheet. Two 1s is way too steep a price, but if someone was really "that interested" I'm sure they'd come up with something better than a 1st and 3rd or 1st and 5th (which is all just rumor at this point anyway).

It seems like the teams that are interested are only interested if they can try to take advantage of the circumstances and get a bargain.

Excellent post.

stlchiefs
04-17-2008, 08:07 PM
There is no price that is worth it. You could draft 3 first rounders and be lucky if one of them ever comes close to Jared Allen's level. Allen is arguably the best pass rusher in the NFL right now, and he's still young. This is pure madness.

Exactly. I'd add more but it has all been said. The guy is an effing stud and nothing is guaranteed with draft picks.

stlchiefs
04-17-2008, 08:10 PM
He was the only pass rusher KC had for the better part of his career. That might have something to do with those stats, don't you think?

So what the Chiefs never tried to rush the QB before JA came along? Bullchit, he is the only guy who has been able to produce these kind of numbers because of his talent. They've played plenty of guys at DE, none with JAs ability. Hali has had 2 years now and showed promise his 1st year, but faded last year, not JA stats.

Bowser
04-17-2008, 08:21 PM
Everybody who posts something like, "it would take two first round picks" really don't have a grasp on reality. Jared is a good player. Is he a great player? No. Sorry...I hate to burst your bubbles. We love him because he was a total over achiever, but he is not an elite DE. Please don't quote sack totals to me. I know what his stats are. He was the only pass rusher KC had for the better part of his career. That might have something to do with those stats, don't you think? We aren't talking about Bruce Smith here. You aren't going to get two 1st round picks...period. If KC can get Chris Long with their own first pick and Ryan Clady or somebody similar with their 1st round pick from the trade, how would that be a crappy deal? All people do is bitch about how KC doesn't do anything dramatic...no big deals. Fine. Here is a blockbuster that could really end up benefiting KC. I didn't think this was a bad idea from the beginning. We have many areas of need...get a grip!

The highlighted part is total horseshit. Allen was the ONE GUY on this defense that could cause opponents to worry.

Otter
04-17-2008, 08:28 PM
I'm having trouble understanding why the Chiefs would want to get rid of a 26 year old great DL with game changing ability.

He'll be 28 by the time they have a chance to be good again if they do things right which I don't hold much confidence but wouldn't Tony Gonzalez be a better idea if their going to go down this road?

OnTheWarpath58
04-17-2008, 08:32 PM
I'm having trouble understanding why the Chiefs would want to get rid of a 26 year old great DL with game changing ability.

He'll be 28 by the time they have a chance to be good again if they do things right which I don't hold much confidence but wouldn't Tony Gonzalez be a better idea if their going to go down this road?

Would you give $100M of YOUR OWN MONEY to someone with his off the field history?

He's been clean (supposedly) for 9 months. Does that erase years of risky behavior?

morphius
04-17-2008, 08:50 PM
Jeff, they aren't trading him over a personality conflict.

They're trading him over $80-100M and the knowledge that if he has ANY contact with alcohol or drugs, he takes a year-long vacation.
unless of course they can get that stipulation into his contract...

Mecca
04-17-2008, 08:52 PM
unless of course they can get that stipulation into his contract...

The players union would never allow it, even if he'd sign it, they'd never allow it to go through.

Otter
04-17-2008, 09:02 PM
Would you give $100M of YOUR OWN MONEY to someone with his off the field history?

He's been clean (supposedly) for 9 months. Does that erase years of risky behavior?

Tough to call without an idea of what's going through his head on preventing the mistake he made in the past from happening again.

The guy is a twenty something millionaire with a wild streak and he's gonna party, that's part of the package. It's pretty simple to call a cab . hitch a ride with a friend or hire a limo service when you're looking to get banged up. If that's the worst you have to worry about I'd want him on my team.