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View Full Version : Chiefs An even newer Jared Allen thread - with free casino cash - VOTE NOW


OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 07:19 PM
So, since this place is at DefCon 4 with the news of an impending Jared Allen trade, I ask the fine frazzled folks of ChiefsPlanet a simple question.

Using the same circumstances, his on the field talent, his off the field troubles and his contract demands.....

If Jared Allen played for another team, say the Seahawks.

Would you be advocating that the Chiefs trade a 1st/3rd draft picks and spend $100M to get him? Assume we're picking 15-20 like Minnesota.

Adept Havelock
04-18-2008, 07:24 PM
I read the poll before reading the post. Switch my answer. I would make that trade. Considering his play level, I think it's worth the risk.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-18-2008, 07:25 PM
I read the poll before reading the post. Switch my answer. I would make that trade. Considering his play level, I think it's worth the risk.

Same.

doomy3
04-18-2008, 07:25 PM
No way. I wouldn't make that trade for hardly anyone.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 07:27 PM
You don't get casino cash for voting on polls anymore.


Did someone hear something?

I didn't either. Carry on.

:cuss:

88TG88
04-18-2008, 07:32 PM
Gax ?

Mecca
04-18-2008, 07:37 PM
I vote no...I'd be livid if my team was giving up all that..

I discussed this on another board with fans of many teams and one response was "If the Vikings want a DE that bad they can come take Peppers for that same deal"

Bowser
04-18-2008, 07:38 PM
I vote no...I'd be livid if my team was giving up all that..

I discussed this on another board with fans of many teams and one response was "If the Vikings want a DE that bad they can come take Peppers for that same deal"

Even if your team was just a stud DE away from winning it all?

Mecca
04-18-2008, 07:38 PM
Even if your team was just a stud DE away from winning it all?

I'd rather have 4 players than 1....

Otter
04-18-2008, 07:39 PM
I'd trade Carl for a first rounder then run really fast before the suckers find out what they took.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 07:46 PM
Gax ?


ROFL

Whoops.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 07:47 PM
Even if your team was just a stud DE away from winning it all?

Please tell me you don't think that Minnesota is Jared Allen away from contending for a championship.....

Mecca
04-18-2008, 07:50 PM
Please tell me you don't think that Minnesota is Jared Allen away from contending for a championship.....

They aren't even Jared Allen away from beating the Packers for the division.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 07:51 PM
They aren't even Jared Allen away from beating the Packers for the division.

Couldn't agree more.

Take those picks and that money and go out and get a QB, some OLmen and some better wideouts than Bernard ****ing Berrian.

The defense isn't the problem in Minnesota.

Bowser
04-18-2008, 07:52 PM
Please tell me you don't think that Minnesota is Jared Allen away from contending for a championship.....

Not even. But in this hypothetical, I was asking that assuming that his team WAS one player away.

Mecca
04-18-2008, 07:53 PM
Which team do you want to be like, the Packers a team that traded Corey Williams for more than he was worth. Doesn't overpay players, has built their team through the draft and is very good in the draft...

Or the Vikings who spend a bunch of jack in FA and are willing to trade multiple high picks for a high priced player with off the field issues..

Hrm I think that answer should be easy seeing as the Packers are a better team and in better position..

KCFalcon59
04-18-2008, 07:55 PM
I read the poll before reading the post. Switch my answer. I would make that trade. Considering his play level, I think it's worth the risk.

I jumped the gun. Voted before reading the post. Damnit. :cuss: Switch my vote please.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 07:56 PM
Not even. But in this hypothetical, I was asking that assuming that his team WAS one player away.

Personally, I don't believe in the "one player away" bit.

Look at the Patriots. They were favorites to win it all even before they traded for Welker and Moss.

We all know what happened.....

Woodrow Call
04-18-2008, 07:59 PM
Not a chance. Way too big of gamble on guy with his history.

Guru
04-18-2008, 08:00 PM
Jared Allen sucks. No friggin way1!!!!

Bowser
04-18-2008, 08:04 PM
You know what the problem with this debate is? Like I said earlier - both sides are right, and one can't get a leg up on the other. You, Mecca, Brock, and Warpath, can't stand here screaming that it's the best thing to trade him while we can, without acknowledging what Allen brings to the table, and those against trading him can't say keeping him wouldn't be without risk because of his past problems. Proverbial rock and a hard place.


Here's a question for those who want to jettison him because of his baggage - Would you give Jared Allen a contract greater than Dwight Freeney's, if he had no past DUI's?

Skip Towne
04-18-2008, 08:05 PM
Cough up the casino cash sucker.

Mecca
04-18-2008, 08:07 PM
You know what the problem with this debate is? Like I said earlier - both sides are right, and one can't get a leg up on the other. You, Mecca, Brock, and Warpath, can't stand here screaming that it's the best thing to trade him while we can, without acknowledging what Allen brings to the table, and those against trading him can't say keeping him wouldn't be without risk because of his past problems. Proverbial rock and a hard place.


Here's a question for those who want to jettison him because of his baggage - Would you give Jared Allen a contract greater than Dwight Freeney's, if he had no past DUI's?

No, Allen has had 1 oustanding year while Freeney was a multiple time Pro Bowler with several outstanding years.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 08:08 PM
You know what the problem with this debate is? Like I said earlier - both sides are right, and one can't get a leg up on the other. You, Mecca, Brock, and Warpath, can't stand here screaming that it's the best thing to trade him while we can, without acknowledging what Allen brings to the table, and those against trading him can't say keeping him wouldn't be without risk because of his past problems. Proverbial rock and a hard place.


Here's a question for those who want to jettison him because of his baggage - Would you give Jared Allen a contract greater than Dwight Freeney's, if he had no past DUI's?

Nope.

IMO, he's had one phenomenal season, one pretty solid season, and 2 average/below average seasons.

A guy that wants to get paid like Freeney better be putting up 12-13 sacks a year.

Years of 9 and 7.5 doesn't cut it for that kinda cash, IMO.

Christ, Tamba Hali had more sacks in 2006 than Allen.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 08:09 PM
Cough up the casino cash sucker.


Why?

You can't take it with you, Skip.

:p

Bowser
04-18-2008, 08:10 PM
Nope.

IMO, he's had one phenomenal season, one pretty solid season, and 2 average/below average seasons.

A guy that wants to get paid like Freeney better be putting up 12-13 sacks a year.

Years of 9 and 7.5 doesn't cut it for that kinda cash, IMO.

Christ, Tamba Hali had more sacks in 2006 than Allen.

You can't be basing that on sacks alone. Jared is the complete package at defensive end.

Mecca
04-18-2008, 08:12 PM
You can't be basing that on sacks alone. Jared is the complete package at defensive end.

It doesn't help that Allen is a bunch player, even if you love him you can't deny this.

He will get 3 or 4 sacks in 1 game then completely disappear for others.

Bowser
04-18-2008, 08:15 PM
It doesn't help that Allen is a bunch player, even if you love him you can't deny this.

He will get 3 or 4 sacks in 1 game then completely disappear for others.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT SACKS! He plays the run constantly, bats down passes, casues fumbles, chases down backs, whatever you need.

Do you think his overall skillset is greater than Freeney's, and if not, why?

Skip Towne
04-18-2008, 08:17 PM
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT SACKS! He plays the run constantly, bats down passes, casues fumbles, chases down backs, whatever you need.

Do you think his overall skillset is greater than Freeney's, and if not, why?

You forgot he catches TD passes.

Bowser
04-18-2008, 08:19 PM
You forgot he catches TD passes.

Well played, Skip. He was our second leading receiver in TD catches for Tight Ends last year. :)

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 08:20 PM
You can't be basing that on sacks alone. Jared is the complete package at defensive end.

Why not?

That's what everyone else is basing it on?

Had he had another ho-hum 8-9 sack season, no one would be advocating giving him anywhere NEAR Freeney money.

Bottom line is that he's produced at a Freeney-type level for ONE year.

I don't think the Chiefs are in the wrong here. They put the tag on him knowing that if he ****ed up again, they'd be covered. It also gave Allen another year to prove to the team that he's clean.

But then Jared went running his mouth about not signing a long term deal if he played under the tag.

Someone who actually wanted to be here would have taken his $9M, put his head down, realized he was getting a 4th chance, stayed clean, and gotten that huge contract. Instead, he basically gives the team an ultimatum.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 08:22 PM
It doesn't help that Allen is a bunch player, even if you love him you can't deny this.

He will get 3 or 4 sacks in 1 game then completely disappear for others.

Or completely disappear in the 2nd half, when the defense needs him most.

Smed1065
04-18-2008, 08:27 PM
So do we have all but 1 piece or do we have our record from last year?

Bwana
04-18-2008, 08:30 PM
No, hell no, **** no, no way in hell.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 08:30 PM
IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT SACKS! He plays the run constantly, bats down passes, casues fumbles, chases down backs, whatever you need.

Do you think his overall skillset is greater than Freeney's, and if not, why?

Freeney caused 10 more forced fumbles and 8 more sacks than Allen did his first 4 years.

I'll give you the passes batted down, Allen holds a huge edge in that 25-11. Though he should, considering he's a half a foot taller than Freeney.

Bottom line?

Freeney has been consistent. His LOWEST sack total in his first 4 years was 11.

The same 11 that is the second highest season total for Allen, who's had 2 years below 10 - one of them being well below 10, two years ago.

Smed1065
04-18-2008, 08:39 PM
I voted no but I do not see him getting a $100 million either from anybody.

gta0012
04-18-2008, 08:39 PM
Well get more.

My guess:

1/3rd this year.

Conditional 1-3 pick next year? something like that

Bowser
04-18-2008, 08:59 PM
Freeney caused 10 more forced fumbles and 8 more sacks than Allen did his first 4 years.

I'll give you the passes batted down, Allen holds a huge edge in that 25-11. Though he should, considering he's a half a foot taller than Freeney.

Bottom line?

Freeney has been consistent. His LOWEST sack total in his first 4 years was 11.

The same 11 that is the second highest season total for Allen, who's had 2 years below 10 - one of them being well below 10, two years ago.

Well, Allen has been consistent as well, with kicking it up to the next level this past year. It's not out of the realm of possibility to think that he is reaching a level that he will maintain for the next few years.

You make good points about him, but we'll just agree to disagree what his worth is (and can be). Just to be official, I understand the risks he brings with him, and understand why the Chiefs would try to trade him now, in his prime (even if I do think it sucks to give away an impact player on a team that needs every impact player it can get his hands on).

Bowser
04-18-2008, 09:01 PM
Now give me my casino cash!


:D

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 09:03 PM
Well, Allen has been consistent as well, with kicking it up to the next level this past year. It's not out of the realm of possibility to think that he is reaching a level that he will maintain for the next few years.

You make good points about him, but we'll just agree to disagree what his worth is (and can be). Just to be official, I understand the risks he brings with him, and understand why the Chiefs would try to trade him now, in his prime (even if I do think it sucks to give away an impact player on a team that needs every impact player it can get his hands on).

Fair enough, really the only place we're not in agreement is over his consistency.

A guy who wants to be paid like an elite DE who's a year removed from a pedestrian 7.5 sacks doesn't scream consistency to me.

Like you said, agree to disagree.

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 09:04 PM
Now give me my casino cash!


:D

You didn't vote.

Bowser
04-18-2008, 09:04 PM
You didn't vote.

Public vote! Shit!

OnTheWarpath58
04-18-2008, 09:05 PM
Public vote! Shit!

:D

Chiefnj2
04-18-2008, 09:19 PM
So, Allen is asking for 100 million guaranteed? The lengths some people go to support their position. Why not ask a poll - would you rather keep Jared Allen or get a 1st and 3rd and take Ben Moffit with the 1st and a kicker with the 3rd.

OnTheWarpath58
04-19-2008, 02:11 PM
Interesting poll results.

Smed1065
04-19-2008, 02:15 PM
The main difference is we do not have to give up the picks. I voted no but I also am curious to see what he does get paid as well.

OnTheWarpath58
04-19-2008, 02:18 PM
The whole point is that there are people bitching that if we don't get two firsts we're getting ripped off, while those same people wouldn't be willing to trade a 1st/3rd and have to pay him to come here.

beach tribe
04-19-2008, 02:49 PM
I'd rather have 4 players than 1....

But would like Carl peterson to pick those 4 players for you.

Buehler445
04-19-2008, 02:55 PM
I voted "No," but it is an interesting thought process. I think it is too high of price for US to pay, because undoubtedly, we need every pick we have plus about 85 more. OTOH, I don't think the Chiefs should get rid of him because he is young and ascending (hopefully), and lord knows we don't have any of those. Moreover the replacement that we get for him (assumedly first round) may not be as good as him, so the third round would have to compensate for that too. I know it is impossible, but I don't think it is a good deal for anyone.

Good question OTW. Rep.

Mecca
04-19-2008, 02:56 PM
But would like Carl peterson to pick those 4 players for you.

Obviously no, but all I can say to that is they have to be serious and dead on about this because screwing this up is the kind of thing that gets people fired, it is not a typical safe Carl move.

Buehler445
04-19-2008, 02:59 PM
But would like Carl peterson to pick those 4 players for you.

OK, so what is the deal now? Last I had heard, it was a 1st and one of their 3rds. Are there more picks involved now?

keg in kc
04-19-2008, 03:03 PM
Obviously no, but all I can say to that is they have to be serious and dead on about this because screwing this up is the kind of thing that gets people fired, it is not a typical safe Carl move.Like his coaching or not, Herm has gradually worked some real change on this franchise. I think there was some resistance to it in 2006 and 2007, but it doesn't much resemble the way it was from from about 1991 through 2005. This is not a Carl kind of move, and neither is getting almost nobody in free agency, accruing as many picks as possible and making a clear effort at developing the team almost entirely through the draft. Herm's mentioned several times the last few weeks about how there's only 60 players on the roster, and how that means we'll be bringing in not only draft picks but a shit ton of UDFA's, and how much of an opportunity all those guys will get.

It's bizarroworld.

Mecca
04-19-2008, 03:05 PM
If this was business as usual Carl Chiefs, they would have paid Allen and signed a bunch of FA's after going 4-12 to excite the fan base because that is the safe thing to do...

This while being the right thing to do is much riskier.

stlchiefs
04-19-2008, 03:13 PM
Maybe it has been asked, but I didn't take the time to read. Is this a 1st and 3rd this year or next? This information greatly affects my ability to truthfully answer the poll.

OnTheWarpath58
04-19-2008, 03:14 PM
Maybe it has been asked, but I didn't take the time to read. Is this a 1st and 3rd this year or next? This information greatly affects my ability to truthfully answer the poll.

This year.

Remember, assume we're picking around 15-20 like the Vikings and Bucs are.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2008, 03:19 PM
Jesus Christ, this Freeney talk is getting ridiculous. Freeney is one of the most overrated players in the entire league and people are talking about him like he's healing lepers. The guy is a one-dimensional pass rush specialist who plays on a marquee team.

stlchiefs
04-19-2008, 03:59 PM
I'd say no. Currently the Chiefs don't have the team for it to make sense for them to trade multiple high picks for 1 player. If we were were pretty set all around and needed a game changer on defense (as the Vikes apparently think they are), hell yeah.

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 04:05 PM
Nope.

IMO, he's had one phenomenal season, one pretty solid season, and 2 average/below average seasons.

A guy that wants to get paid like Freeney better be putting up 12-13 sacks a year.

Years of 9 and 7.5 doesn't cut it for that kinda cash, IMO.

Christ, Tamba Hali had more sacks in 2006 than Allen.

Please. Allen was great against the run in 2006 and had a ton of pressures and batted balls at the line...his stats might not have been there but I clearly remember telling friends Jared Allen was the most valuable player on this team, not Larry Johnson...and that was after the 7.5 sack season.