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tmax63
04-19-2008, 08:36 AM
In reading all the threads and drivel concerning Jared Allen I see a common theme in almost all of them. The pro-trade side seems to think that KC didn't really disrepect JA and that he brought it on himself and had unrealistic expectations after his actions, and the anti-trade side who feels the Chiefs have/are disrespecting JA by not paying whatever it takes to keep him and aren't respecting the fans by trying to keep him. This difference in opinion among the board begs these questions. What does respect mean to you? Are the Chiefs disrespecting JA? If respect is lost, can you get it back?
Seems like more people die today than in the past over feelings of disrepect and I wonder if the meaning of respect is changing.

Molitoth
04-19-2008, 09:53 AM
Carl doesn't want to make the same mistake that he did with LJ. Once players get thier big checks, performance tends to drop.

Brock
04-19-2008, 10:04 AM
My personal experience is that giving money to drunks and drug addicts is a bad idea. They'll disappoint every time.

keg in kc
04-19-2008, 10:09 AM
I think there's also a question of whether people believe the respect his on-field behavior earns is enough to wash away the stink of his off-field problems. It's performance versus the potential of suspension.

But I don't think it's any kind of slant to JA or the fans that this is happening. It's just business, and I think this was inevitable going all the way to last year, when he didn't get a big contract while he was suspended. So for me, it's an issue of pragmatism. The trade's going to happen, so I don't waste time thinking about which side's right and which one wrong. I just deal with the reality of the trade and will formulate my opinion on the success or failure of it based on the compensation the team receives.

Tiger's Fan
04-19-2008, 10:18 AM
Around this same time last year, everyone was clamoring for JA to prove himself off and on the field before resigning him to a lucrative contract. It seems to me that he did just that, improving his performance on the field, and staying out of trouble off it. Now that we're here again, a year later, it seems most want to just unload him. Perhaps some don't recognize an elite talent when they're confronted with one. I personally don't think theres one player in this draft that will have the affect on the field that JA does. A known commodidy like JA can't easily be replaced. Yet people have faith that a moron like Herm Edwards has the mental capacity to do just that in the draft. And the hypocricy of people in regards to drinking and driving is hilarious. I don't drink anymore myself, but I've had a DUI in the past, and was labeled an "alcoholic" because of it. I didn't attend meetings, make an oath of sobriety, or have myself commited because of it. Yet here I am, a little older, and wiser. And still not an alcoholic. Letting JA leave is just another in a long line of Carl Peterson collosal ****ups.

Brock
04-19-2008, 10:23 AM
And the hypocricy of people in regards to drinking and driving is hilarious. I don't drink anymore myself, but I've had a DUI in the past, and was labeled an "alcoholic" because of it. I didn't attend meetings, make an oath of sobriety, or have myself commited because of it. Yet here I am, a little older, and wiser. And still not an alcoholic. Letting JA leave is just another in a long line of Carl Peterson collosal ****ups.

If you quit drinking after one DUI, you're probably not an alcoholic. What if it took you three times to allegedly quit? What if your employer didn't want you around because of your drinking problem? What if your drinking caused you to be drafted in the 4th round instead of the second, and you still didn't quit? Would you consider yourself an alcoholic at that point?

I also love how the people who drink and drive don't believe that anyone else has never done it.

nychief
04-19-2008, 10:26 AM
sell high

StcChief
04-19-2008, 10:28 AM
sell highexactly.... now is the time.

EyePod
04-19-2008, 10:30 AM
I say that with the recent problems with lots of big name players (Vick, Pacman), NFL teams are very worried about their own players. Jared should just take the 1 year deal from the franchise and then if there are no problems next season, then we can talk about a huge contract the season after. I think he is being unreasonable because he screwed up. This season was tainted because of the missed two games (of which we lost). The fans who are saying that the Chiefs aren't respecting JA forget about the fact that we lost those two games. It's not about respect either way. Jared ****ed up and he needs to pay his penance.

milkman
04-19-2008, 10:40 AM
Around this same time last year, everyone was clamoring for JA to prove himself off and on the field before resigning him to a lucrative contract. It seems to me that he did just that, improving his performance on the field, and staying out of trouble off it. Now that we're here again, a year later, it seems most want to just unload him. Perhaps some don't recognize an elite talent when they're confronted with one. I personally don't think theres one player in this draft that will have the affect on the field that JA does. A known commodidy like JA can't easily be replaced. Yet people have faith that a moron like Herm Edwards has the mental capacity to do just that in the draft. And the hypocricy of people in regards to drinking and driving is hilarious. I don't drink anymore myself, but I've had a DUI in the past, and was labeled an "alcoholic" because of it. I didn't attend meetings, make an oath of sobriety, or have myself commited because of it. Yet here I am, a little older, and wiser. And still not an alcoholic. Letting JA leave is just another in a long line of Carl Peterson collosal ****ups.

You're related to KCChiefsfan88, aren't you?

keg in kc
04-19-2008, 10:41 AM
Around this same time last year, everyone was clamoring for JA to prove himself off and on the field before resigning him to a lucrative contract. It seems to me that he did just that, improving his performance on the field, and staying out of trouble off it. Now that we're here again, a year later, it seems most want to just unload him..I don't think it's a matter of whether he's proven himself. The problem is that Jared apparently decided a year ago that he wasn't signing. Sour grapes because he didn't get a new deal, and because Peterson had the temerity to call him an "at risk player" (which he was, at the time). So this isn't a new issue that popped up overnight, and it isn't as much about the Chiefs letting it go, or not wanting to pay him, as it is Allen wanting to go.

I think you can debate the franchise responsibility for not paying him last year and generating this issue to start with, but the question now is really one of whether it's the right move to try to acquire picks for a player who openly refuses to sign with them long term. It's a matter of whether you think it's smarter to franchise him repeatedly or to trade him and get maximum value, in either case acknowledging that he simply doesn't want to play for you, or cooperate in any way as far as negotiations go.

brent102fire
04-19-2008, 10:48 AM
Carl doesn't want to make the same mistake that he did with LJ. Once players get thier big checks, performance tends to drop.

LJ's performance didn't drop because he was less dedicated or because he got some extra $$$$. His performance dropped because he was given an old, dilapidated, makeshift O-line to work with. No one in the NFL or college could have run any better behind the O-line he was given last year. I don't fault LJ for anything.

stevieray
04-19-2008, 10:49 AM
LJ's performance didn't drop because he was less dedicated or because he got some extra $$$$. His performance dropped because he was given an old, dilapidated, makeshift O-line to work with. No one in the NFL or college could have run any better behind the O-line he was given last year. I don't fault LJ for anything.

Kolby Smith was able to...

Baconeater
04-19-2008, 10:54 AM
Respect is a privilege, not a right, it needs to be earned. A lot of people don't seem to understand that.

dirk digler
04-19-2008, 10:56 AM
I understand both sides of this issue and the business side says trade him and get what you can.

But on the flip side I can sympathize with Jared because I also believe strongly in loyalty and when someone promises you something and then decides not to honor that then that is a question of integrity and honesty.

The Chiefs have neither.

stevieray
04-19-2008, 10:58 AM
I understand both sides of this issue and the business side says trade him and get what you can.

But on the flip side I can sympathize with Jared because I also believe strongly in loyalty and when someone promises you something and then decides not to honor that then that is a question of integrity and honesty.

The Chiefs have neither.

BS. No DUI's, he would already have the fat contract.

I'm sick of the player being bigger than the game.

dirk digler
04-19-2008, 11:00 AM
BS. No DUI's, he would already have the fat contract.

I'm sick of the player being bigger than the game.

I agree Stevie. But after the second one he had a meeting with Carl and was promised or told certain things and Jared did what he was asked. He held up his end of the deal and now Carl is pretty much saying FU.

It goes back to Carl and the Chiefs having no integrity or honesty.

milkman
04-19-2008, 11:04 AM
Respect is a privilege, not a right, it needs to be earned. A lot of people don't seem to understand that.

Unfortunately, in today's world, money=respect.

milkman
04-19-2008, 11:06 AM
Kolby Smith was able to...

While I disagree pretty much with brent's post, Kolby Smith averaged about 3.5 yards a carry, and LJ about 3.6, IIRC, so, no, that isn't exactly correct.

Brock
04-19-2008, 11:09 AM
I agree Stevie. But after the second one he had a meeting with Carl and was promised or told certain things and Jared did what he was asked. He held up his end of the deal and now Carl is pretty much saying FU.

It goes back to Carl and the Chiefs having no integrity or honesty.

You mean the third one. The rest is just Jared saying "Look, I'm cured!".

BigChiefFan
04-19-2008, 11:12 AM
I agree Stevie. But after the second one he had a meeting with Carl and was promised or told certain things and Jared did what he was asked. He held up his end of the deal and now Carl is pretty much saying FU.

It goes back to Carl and the Chiefs having no integrity or honesty.

That's right-JA even said he wanted to stay in KC-Carl is pulling his tough SOB, slime-ball character again. Why should I be surprised by all of this-it's not like Carl is a man of integrity-he's a ****ing liar.

dirk digler
04-19-2008, 11:13 AM
You mean the third one. The rest is just Jared saying "Look, I'm cured!".

So if you and I made a promise to each other and you held up your end and I didn't come through on mine you wouldn't be pissed at me? I highly doubt that. It is a pretty simple concept actually.

Now on the flip I understand the Chiefs unwillingness to give a big money contract to a high risk player. That is fine but then why tell Jared they would if he did x,y, and z?

It comes back to integrity and honesty.

Baconeater
04-19-2008, 11:29 AM
Unfortunately, in today's world, money=respect.
In that case, you'd better find a way to earn more casino cash if you want my respect.

stevieray
04-19-2008, 11:39 AM
While I disagree pretty much with brent's post, Kolby Smith averaged about 3.5 yards a carry, and LJ about 3.6, IIRC, so, no, that isn't exactly correct.

If a rookie can come off the bench and can pretty much match the vet's numbers....?

milkman
04-19-2008, 11:59 AM
If a rookie can come off the bench and can pretty much match the vet's numbers....?

I'm just pointing out that Smith didn't outperform LJ, as you suggested.

I like Smith, and think he has potential to be a pretty good RB, but he didn't "run any better" behind the Chiefs line.

stevieray
04-19-2008, 12:04 PM
I'm just pointing out that Smith didn't outperform LJ, as you suggested.

I like Smith, and think he has potential to be a pretty good RB, but he didn't "run any better" behind the Chiefs line.

I didn't suggest that he was better, just that he, as a rookie, was able to create as much yards as LJ., which in reality says more about LJ's inability to overcome inferior blocking.

milkman
04-19-2008, 12:05 PM
In that case, you'd better find a way to earn more casino cash if you want my respect.

Eh....casino cash ain't real, and I gave all mine to junior a couple of weeks ago.

milkman
04-19-2008, 12:08 PM
I didn't suggest that he was better, just that he, as a rookie, was able to create as much yards as LJ., which in reality says more about LJ's inability to overcome inferior blocking.

I misunderstood, but in my defense, you weren't clear.

LJ's performance didn't drop because he was less dedicated or because he got some extra $$$$. His performance dropped because he was given an old, dilapidated, makeshift O-line to work with. No one in the NFL or college could have run any better behind the O-line he was given last year. I don't fault LJ for anything.

Kolby Smith was able to...

stevieray
04-19-2008, 12:10 PM
I misunderstood, but in my defense, you weren't clear.
:doh!:

I see now...thanks..