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Buck
04-19-2008, 01:10 PM
So I am at the casino last night and I'm playing poker.

My very last hand ( I had pre-determined that my last hand was going to be the dealer button), I am dealt a K,10 Offsuit. I put in my $2 to stay in the hand.

The flop comes, K, 10, 4

I should mention there are about 7 people still in the hand.

I bet $15, one guy calls me, another guy goes all in.

I call his all in.

The guy who called me calls the all in too. Now I am all in ( i had the same amount of chips as the first all in guy).

So we flip our cards, and I have the best hand by far. I have K, 10. The all in guy has K, 7. THe last guy has 6, 9.

The 9 he had was a diamond, the K and 10 were diamonds, the turn was a diamond, and the river was a diamond.

I lost to a god damned bullshit flush.

My friend who was watching was convinced he was counting cards (He had a huge stack of chips).

So anyways, is counting cards even possible in poker? I dont think it is, but I'm not that poker-saavy.

KurtCobain
04-19-2008, 01:11 PM
**** if i know

Stewie
04-19-2008, 01:13 PM
Card counters don't care about suit.

Buck
04-19-2008, 01:14 PM
Well if they dont care about the suit, I guess since he had such a huge stack he was waiting on a 7,8 for the straight.

OnTheWarpath58
04-19-2008, 01:14 PM
How could you count cards in poker when the deck is shuffled every hand?

Dude just got lucky.

Sully
04-19-2008, 01:14 PM
Since you are only playing with one deck, it's not "counting" in the same way that blackjack is, but...yeah.
Every card you see gives you information on what is left in the deck. You use that information to make decisions based on odds.


But it sounds like this guy was just playing with a big stack and had little to lose by calling yout two.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2008, 01:16 PM
Card counting is done in every hand in poker in a way. You basically play the odds of a certain hand and count how many "outs" you have in order to do so.

That guy wasn't counting cards though. He made a 16-1 bet (the odds of him hitting runner-runner for that flush) when the most he was going to get was 3-1. That's a losing proposition for him that he got goddamn lucky on.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2008, 01:16 PM
Since you are only playing with one deck, it's not "counting" in the same way that blackjack is, but...yeah.
Every card you see gives you information on what is left in the deck. You use that information to make decisions based on odds.


But it sounds like this guy was just playing with a big stack and had little to lose by calling yout two.

If he's not playing tournament poker, that's a retarded move.

Buck
04-19-2008, 01:17 PM
Yeah, That was a $250 hand too, I cant believe that shit. I'm pissed that he stayed in the hand on that shit.

OnTheWarpath58
04-19-2008, 01:17 PM
Card counting is done in every hand in poker in a way. You basically play the odds of a certain hand and count how many "outs" you have in order to do so.

That guy wasn't counting cards though. He made a 16-1 bet (the odds of him hitting runner-runner for that flush) when the most he was going to get was 3-1. That's a losing proposition for him that he got goddamn lucky on.


Exactly.

Sully
04-19-2008, 01:18 PM
If he's not playing tournament poker, that's a retarded move.
Mostly true.
But we don't know how Cro and the other guy were playing the rest of the night, either. He may have just guessed they played a certain way with those bets, and made the decision based off of that.

BWillie
04-19-2008, 01:18 PM
No, you can't count cards in hold'em silly. How could you? They shuffle the cards each time the cards are dealt. You can only use the cards that are seen to calculate your odds.

First of all, if you are going to play on the button, 90% of the time you want to be raising preflop. You have position right here, utilize it.

How much was the all-in here? Were you playing deep stacks? Did anybody have two diamonds in their hand on the flop? With two diamonds on the flop, calling two all-in's in front of you isn't that bad of a call if that was the case because you have alot of money in the pot and decent odds on your money.

Shit happens. Just remember that if people didn't make bad plays you wouldn't win any money in poker. Drunk and shitty people may increase the variance of your cash flow, but you'll be way ahead in the long run. But chances are if you have to ask if they are counting cards you'll be way behind in the long run.

OnTheWarpath58
04-19-2008, 01:20 PM
Mostly true.
But we don't know how Cro and the other guy were playing the rest of the night, either. He may have just guessed they played a certain way with those bets, and made the decision based off of that.

I don't care if the other players are the biggest fish I've ever played with, I'm not calling any all-in bet hoping to hit either runner-runner perfect to hit an inside straight, or runner-runner diamonds to catch a flush, especially when his flush wasn't very high. (9)

Retarded doesn't begin to explain that play.

Buck
04-19-2008, 01:20 PM
No, you can't count cards in hold'em silly. How could you? They shuffle the cards each time the cards are dealt.

First of all, if you are going to play on the button, 90% of the time you want to be raising preflop. You have position right here, utilize it.

How much was the all-in here? Were you playing deep stacks? Did anybody have two diamonds in their hand on the flop? With two diamonds on the flop, calling two all-in's in front of you isn't that bad of a call if that was the case because you have alot of money in the pot and decent odds on your money.

Shit happens. Just remember that if people didn't make bad plays you wouldn't win any money in poker. Drunk and shitty people may increase the variance of your cash flow, but you'll be way ahead in the long run. But chances are if you have to ask if they are counting cards you'll be way behind in the long run.

The All In was about $70 after the initial $15 bet.

He had 1 diamond pre-flop.

There is no drinking allowed at said casino.

And I had been playing ultra-conservative all night.

Sully
04-19-2008, 01:22 PM
I don't care if the other players are the biggest fish I've ever played with, I'm not calling any all-in bet hoping to hit either runner-runner perfect to hit an inside straight, or runner-runner diamonds to catch a flush, especially when his flush wasn't very high. (9)

Retarded doesn't begin to explain that play.

I wouldn't, either. And I agree that it's mostly retarded. But there is at least one person I play with regularly that I will call and all in with almost anything with. I was just exploring that possibility.

But yeah... he jsut got beat on a bad call...

BWillie
04-19-2008, 01:25 PM
The All In was about $70 after the initial $15 bet.

He had 1 diamond pre-flop.

There is no drinking allowed at said casino.

And I had been playing ultra-conservative all night.

I wouldn't dwell on it Cro, I've lost a hand that gave $1050 to the winner one time and I had the best hand. I don't think you did anything wrong

Stewie
04-19-2008, 01:26 PM
I give advice like a pro, but look at my Casino cash!

Buck
04-19-2008, 01:27 PM
I wouldn't dwell on it Cro, I've lost a hand that gave $1050 to the winner one time and I had the best hand. I don't think you did anything wrong

Yeah it just sucks. Going into the casino I was aware that I had never left with any money playing poker, and I was sure this was the first time it was going to happen. Just left a rotten taste in my mouth.

I win 0% of the time at the casino playing poker
I win 75% of the time at the casino playing black jack

I need to stick to black jack

BWillie
04-19-2008, 01:29 PM
Yeah it just sucks. Going into the casino I was aware that I had never left with any money playing poker, and I was sure this was the first time it was going to happen. Just left a rotten taste in my mouth.

I win 0% of the time at the casino playing poker
I win 75% of the time at the casino playing black jack

I need to stick to black jack

I like to go to Roullette and place 20 on black and red at the same time, then howl at the spinner to go green. It never goes green. Well, not usually.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2008, 01:33 PM
Cro, if it makes you feel any better, when I was in Vegas I had pocket kings get cracked three times in a row by Q4, KJ suited, and AQ (post flop).

The first two were limit games that I capped the raising with preflop, last was a no-limit game with a queen high flop, and I put the guy all-in on the flop after raising to 8x the BB pre-flop (so I knew he had two good overs or a higher PP).

Buck
04-19-2008, 01:34 PM
Cro, if it makes you feel any better, when I was in Vegas I had pocket kings get cracked three times in a row by Q4, KJ suited, and AQ (post flop).

The first two were limit games that I capped the raising with preflop, last was a no-limit game with a queen high flop, and I put the guy all-in on the flop after raising to 8x the BB pre-flop (so I knew he had two good overs or a higher PP).

Its not really the amount of money that I lost that bothers me, its just the fact that I lost on such a bs hand. At least your guys hands (Save the Q4) were ok pockets.

Bwana
04-19-2008, 01:36 PM
LMAO

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2008, 02:02 PM
Its not really the amount of money that I lost that bothers me, its just the fact that I lost on such a bs hand. At least your guys hands (Save the Q4) were ok pockets.

The AQ hand was a 5 outer. He had about an 18% chance to win when he put his money in post-flop. The KJ beat my hand about 14% of the time.

manchambo
04-19-2008, 02:06 PM
I concur with the opinions stated above that (i) every decent poker player "counts" in the sense of figuring the odds based on the visible cards, and (ii) anyone who knows how to do so would not have made the call he made based on the odds.

He was a terrible player who donkey-beat you. Sucks mightily but it happens. If he continued playing like that, and you played reasonably, you would eventually take his money.

HypnotizedMonkey
04-19-2008, 02:10 PM
sometimes the cards are there, sometimes they aren't... this had more to do with luck, it seems.

KCChiefsMan
04-19-2008, 03:02 PM
the guy who called with 1 diamond is a moron who got lucky. He had to think he could have 10 outs I guess, but to get them runner runner is very unlikely. Cash games are tough to play good cards because you have a lot of people who are there just to gamble and not play intelligently.

Valiant
04-19-2008, 03:04 PM
Its called gambling for a reason.. I chase shit all the time.. You either win or you don't.. Would have felt great if it were reversed though right??

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:13 PM
Mostly true.
But we don't know how Cro and the other guy were playing the rest of the night, either. He may have just guessed they played a certain way with those bets, and made the decision based off of that.

he was on a friggin' pair draw...what decision was he basing anything off of? If he CALLED two all ins, that's flat out ridiculous and he simply must be retarded and not have any clue what he's doing...like I said, he was on a pair draw with UNDERCARDS.

I assume the hand went like this, Cro just is shit at telling poker stories...

Dude has the big stack...Cro said he was on the dealer button, in a 7 person hand...and he said he made the $15 bet...indicating it was checked to him and he made, what the 6 9 of diamonds guy figured to be, a typical dealer button bet trying to take the pot down since everyone checked...then one guy before the big stack with 6 9 of diamonds calls (weak move unless he's slow playing a monster - and it was considering he had the shitty hand K 7) which enticed Mr. Big Stack to flex his cock muscle because he has all the chips and dare these two weak moves (dealer button bet, and then a weak call) by going all in - which in this case seems like a pretty decent move because assuming Cro, on the button, flopped an absolute monster is far from likely, and he probably thought going over the top for that much would make Cro fold w/e shit he had with his dealer button move...and any logical player that had any common sense would fold that K7 in a heartbeat because they shouldn't even be in the hand in the first place...

Did he end up sucking out? Absolutely...that's a disgusting beat...but I don't think it's a bad move given the circumstances...I usually don't make bluffs when I essentially have zero outs, but that's because I don't really play that style of poker...but casino poker, especially low limit, is a whole other beast...I suggest playing 5/10 limit at a casino if you don't have a bankroll...much more relaxing game.

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:18 PM
The All In was about $70 after the initial $15 bet.

He had 1 diamond pre-flop.

There is no drinking allowed at said casino.

And I had been playing ultra-conservative all night.

This is why he made the move...he had a lot of chips, and he made a pretty standard bluff in this case...you had been playing ultra conservative...so let's assume the 7 hand pre-flop action was all limp, limp, limp, check...he's going to put you on K weak tops...and since you are super conservative, he knows you're folding anything but a monster (which you had), so the chances of him taking down a $50+ dollar pot were pretty good given the circumstances of the hand...even though if I'm him, with virtually no outs, I'm worried about the flat call behind you because that indicates to me guy #2 with K7 is on a diamond draw and in low limit poker no one folds a flush draw...so then, even if he gets you to fold, he might have two live cards against said flush draw but he's still a huge underdog.

It wasn't a great bluff by any means...it would have been a good move had there not been a flat call...but that guy has to think flat call has K7 or worse to make that move because in that type of setting what else will he fold for a reraise? He's calling JQ, he's calling KJ, he's calling a diamond draw...it's much easier to put you on a bullshit hand or get you out of a draw because you had been playing ultra conservative...but the other guy makes it a sketchy bluff at best.

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:20 PM
I don't care if the other players are the biggest fish I've ever played with, I'm not calling any all-in bet hoping to hit either runner-runner perfect to hit an inside straight, or runner-runner diamonds to catch a flush, especially when his flush wasn't very high. (9)

Retarded doesn't begin to explain that play.

That's because it wasn't the play...

Cro was on the dealer button, the dude that made the all in play was the one with the 69 of diamonds...he got caught in a bluff...

It's happened to me on many occasions over the years...though I usually just throw my hand into the muck so no one can see it ROFL

Casinos aren't like TV poker...you don't have to show your all in hand until the river has been flipped, and that's by choice...so if I lose the hand, unless they sucked out on me they aren't seeing it =)

OnTheWarpath58
04-19-2008, 03:23 PM
That's because it wasn't the play...

Cro was on the dealer button, the dude that made the all in play was the one with the 69 of diamonds...he got caught in a bluff...

It's happened to me on many occasions over the years...though I usually just throw my hand into the muck so no one can see it ROFL

Casinos aren't like TV poker...you don't have to show your all in hand until the river has been flipped, and that's by choice...so if I lose the hand, unless they sucked out on me they aren't seeing it =)


I dealt poker for 4 years in STL casinos.

Trust me, I know how things work.

And FWIW, I've seen MUCH worse beats than that.

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:28 PM
Cro, if it makes you feel any better, when I was in Vegas I had pocket kings get cracked three times in a row by Q4, KJ suited, and AQ (post flop).

The first two were limit games that I capped the raising with preflop, last was a no-limit game with a queen high flop, and I put the guy all-in on the flop after raising to 8x the BB pre-flop (so I knew he had two good overs or a higher PP).

I was in Vegas playing the 4/8 NL game at the Bellagio...was pretty drunk...one off the button with a few limpers ahead of me and I did something I NEVER do...I limped with 69 of diamonds just for the **** of it...I had about $800 in my stack...up about $200 from my buy in...four people see the flop which is 7d 8d 9c...the big blind leads $25, fold, I raise to $80, dude behind me goes all in (he only had $125 or so) and the initial better goes all in as well ($400 or so)...sober me lays this down in an instant...because my straight probably is dead and my diamonds might be dead other than the two straight flush cards...but very intoxicated me thinks about it, convinces myself neither has a set or diamonds and I call because I'm a moron and the EV was way off and the odds were not in my favor one bit...

of course the BB has 6 10, which gives me a chance to split and all the other dude has it 7 8...so I was actually drawing much more live than I figured...9 flush outs and 3 split outs...but neither hit and then I proceeded to lose the rest of my stack with AA a few hands later to a flop of J 7 4 with someone having pocket 44...but shit, that's why when I'm playing poker for real, I never touch a drop of alcohol...

KCChiefsMan
04-19-2008, 03:28 PM
That's because it wasn't the play...

Cro was on the dealer button, the dude that made the all in play was the one with the 69 of diamonds...he got caught in a bluff...

It's happened to me on many occasions over the years...though I usually just throw my hand into the muck so no one can see it ROFL

Casinos aren't like TV poker...you don't have to show your all in hand until the river has been flipped, and that's by choice...so if I lose the hand, unless they sucked out on me they aren't seeing it =)

I must have read it wrong, I thought the guy with the 69 with 1 diamond called the all in. I guess he was bluffing and got lucky.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2008, 03:29 PM
If the guy wanted to really push Cro and the other guy, he wouldn't have pushed all of his chips in, because he's overplaying his bluff. What he should have done was bet 2/3 of their stack, not just shove into the middle. It's still a bet of strength that forces them to make a decision for all their chips, but it doesn't seem as reckless or bullyish as an all-in push.

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:31 PM
I dealt poker for 4 years in STL casinos.

Trust me, I know how things work.

And FWIW, I've seen MUCH worse beats than that.

I was playing poker in Windsor when I was 19...I was watching a hand, and this is truly hilarious, a BIG hand at the big limit table...a guy has 38 of diamonds...the other guy has AJ of diamonds...the flop comes Ac 5d 10d (or something like that)...the 38 guy calls the all in eventually on the flop, the pot is easily $3000+...the guy hits a running 3 and an 8...the dude with the AJ kicks his chair about 20 feet and storms out of the casino...no one even said a word to the dude about it...

I usually stick to 10/20 limit...lot of fish, lot of big pots, and if you know how to play and how to maximize, you can make some pretty good money doing it...and it's much more relaxing than no limit because you don't have any superheros making Jamie Gold moves on every hand...

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2008, 03:32 PM
Oh, and FTR, limit is a god awful game. You can't push anyone off of a hand, and because of that even monster preflop hands will lose more often than not.

The only way to consistently win in limit is to maximize value when you have good drawing hands like high flushes. Most of the time, it's like trying to run the 100 meter dash in a minefield.

Buck
04-19-2008, 03:32 PM
That's because it wasn't the play...

Cro was on the dealer button, the dude that made the all in play was the one with the 69 of diamonds...he got caught in a bluff...

It's happened to me on many occasions over the years...though I usually just throw my hand into the muck so no one can see it ROFL

Casinos aren't like TV poker...you don't have to show your all in hand until the river has been flipped, and that's by choice...so if I lose the hand, unless they sucked out on me they aren't seeing it =)

No, here is how it went.

After seeing the pockets, there were 7 in w/ the $2 initial call.

After the flop (K,10, 4), everybody checked, until me, on the dealer button bet $15. The guy next to me folded, the next guy called the $15(6,9), then fold, fold, fold, all-in (K,7), then to me (i call the all-in and we had the same amount of chips). So it goes back to the guy w/ 6,9 and he called our all-ins.

Then he turned and river'd a diamond.

Lucky SOB

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-19-2008, 03:35 PM
No, here is how it went.

After seeing the pockets, there were 7 in w/ the $2 initial call.

After the flop (K,10, 4), everybody checked, until me, on the dealer button bet $15. The guy next to me folded, the next guy called the $15(6,9), then fold, fold, fold, all-in (K,7), then to me (i call the all-in and we had the same amount of chips). So it goes back to the guy w/ 6,9 and he called our all-ins.

Then he turned and river'd a diamond.

Lucky SOB

That's just a f*cking awful play every inch of the way. You really couldn't play a hand of poker any worse.

However, Cro, if it's good enough to call it's good enough to raise, and you really should have preflop.

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:35 PM
If the guy wanted to really push Cro and the other guy, he wouldn't have pushed all of his chips in, because he's overplaying his bluff. What he should have done was bet 2/3 of their stack, not just shove into the middle. It's still a bet of strength that forces them to make a decision for all their chips, but it doesn't seem as reckless or bullyish as an all-in push.

Hey, of course...I totally agree...100%...it was an easy to read, I'm the table bully bluff...

I often laugh because I compare 10/20 and even 20/40 limit at the casino to be a comparable game skill wise to say...$0.50/$1.00 or $1/$2 limit on Full Tilt.

No joke...there are awful, awful, awful players playing at every Casino, especially in the low limit games like this one...

The most disturbing play in the entire hand is not the dude pushing all in, and not Cro insta-calling...it's the guy with K7 proceeding to call both all ins like he has any chance in the world of hitting anything or being ahead at that given time...what in God's name is he doing?

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:37 PM
Oh, and FTR, limit is a god awful game. You can't push anyone off of a hand, and because of that even monster preflop hands will lose more often than not.

The only way to consistently win in limit is to maximize value when you have good drawing hands like high flushes. Most of the time, it's like trying to run the 100 meter dash in a minefield.

You're not playing the right limits..limit poker isn't a bluffing game like NL, but you can still push people off hands and it has every bit as much strategy as NL...I once hated limit as well until I really started getting into it...I make MUCH more money playing limit than I do playing NL...

And yes, I'll take 9/10 suited in a loose game over AA or KK every time...but I'm also not the one that will call down with AA every time just because I want everyone to know how screwed I got by someone drawing out on me...I hate those people...

Play 10/20 limit or 20/40 limit and tell me that you can't push people off of hands...you're nuts.

Buck
04-19-2008, 03:37 PM
That's just a f*cking awful play every inch of the way. You really couldn't play a hand of poker any worse.

However, Cro, if it's good enough to call it's good enough to raise, and you really should have preflop.

You think I should have raised a K,10 off-suited preflop?

Buck
04-19-2008, 03:38 PM
Hey, of course...I totally agree...100%...it was an easy to read, I'm the table bully bluff...

I often laugh because I compare 10/20 and even 20/40 limit at the casino to be a comparable game skill wise to say...$0.50/$1.00 or $1/$2 limit on Full Tilt.

No joke...there are awful, awful, awful players playing at every Casino, especially in the low limit games like this one...

The most disturbing play in the entire hand is not the dude pushing all in, and not Cro insta-calling...it's the guy with K7 proceeding to call both all ins like he has any chance in the world of hitting anything or being ahead at that given time...what in God's name is he doing?

The K7 guy didn't call the all-ins, he was the initial all-in guy.

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:39 PM
That's just a f*cking awful play every inch of the way. You really couldn't play a hand of poker any worse.

However, Cro, if it's good enough to call it's good enough to raise, and you really should have preflop.

especially from the button...

But I still can't see this being how the hand went down...unless the guy had $10,000 dollars at a $100 max table and he was just plain f*cking around...he had to be the guy that went all in first...Cro is just steaming about the beat so he doesn't remember it right...we've all had those bad beat stories that aren't nearly as bad as we make them out to be when telling friends =)

Buck
04-19-2008, 03:41 PM
especially from the button...

But I still can't see this being how the hand went down...unless the guy had $10,000 dollars at a $100 max table and he was just plain f*cking around...he had to be the guy that went all in first...Cro is just steaming about the beat so he doesn't remember it right...we've all had those bad beat stories that aren't nearly as bad as we make them out to be when telling friends =)

God Damnit.

Im labeling the guy who beat me Player A and the guy with K7 Player B

I bet $15 after the flop, Player A called my $15, Player B pushed all in, I called the all in (which pushed me all in), Player B called the all in.

Player B won the hand, but didn't put either of us all in

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:42 PM
You think I should have raised a K,10 off-suited preflop?

from the button with 6 limpers...absolutely...or fold...because you're going to often find yourself in predicaments like this one...you never want to see any hand outside of suited connectors with that many people pre-flop...

Otherwise I suggest folding K10 offsuit because that hand will get you in trouble way more than it will have you reaping the benefits.

This particular case scenario is just flat out awful luck...I rarely ever limp pre-flop...even if I want to play a shitty hand (I'm tight aggressive while playing NL) like J3 with good position just to simply win the hand with continuation bets you always raise like you have it...

OnTheWarpath58
04-19-2008, 03:43 PM
I was playing poker in Windsor when I was 19...I was watching a hand, and this is truly hilarious, a BIG hand at the big limit table...a guy has 38 of diamonds...the other guy has AJ of diamonds...the flop comes Ac 5d 10d (or something like that)...the 38 guy calls the all in eventually on the flop, the pot is easily $3000+...the guy hits a running 3 and an 8...the dude with the AJ kicks his chair about 20 feet and storms out of the casino...no one even said a word to the dude about it...

I usually stick to 10/20 limit...lot of fish, lot of big pots, and if you know how to play and how to maximize, you can make some pretty good money doing it...and it's much more relaxing than no limit because you don't have any superheros making Jamie Gold moves on every hand...

You haven't witnessed a bad beat until you've dealt one that costs someone $25k in a pot-limit omaha game.

My boss asked security to escort me to their office until the guy who had lost had left the casino.

Then they had a plainclothes officer drive me home.

Just one of the many reasons I don't deal anymore.

Buck
04-19-2008, 03:43 PM
from the button with 6 limpers...absolutely...or fold...because you're going to often find yourself in predicaments like this one...you never want to see any hand outside of suited connectors with that many people pre-flop...

Otherwise I suggest folding K10 offsuit because that hand will get you in trouble way more than it will have you reaping the benefits.

This particular case scenario is just flat out awful luck...I rarely ever limp pre-flop...even if I want to play a shitty hand (I'm tight aggressive while playing NL) like J3 with good position just to simply win the hand with continuation bets you always raise like you have it...

Right, but since I was on the button, and I didn't think that K,10 was that great of a hand with so many people in, I felt the $2 call was not that huge of a bet to see the flop.

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:43 PM
God Damnit.

Im labeling the guy who beat me Player A and the guy with K7 Player B

I bet $15 after the flop, Player A called my $15, Player B pushed all in, I called the all in (which pushed me all in), Player B called the all in.

Player B won the hand, but didn't put either of us all in
I've played millions of hold 'em hands and I'm flat out telling you that makes no sense...

If that truly happened, then wow, awful...don't know what to say...but I can't possibly fathom that being the case...just makes no sense...he's on a pair draw with a few perfect/perfect draws (maybe)...even the biggest fish aren't that ridiculous.

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:45 PM
You haven't witnessed a bad beat until you've dealt one that costs someone $25k in a pot-limit omaha game.

My boss asked security to escort me to their office until the guy who had lost had left the casino.

Then they had a plainclothes officer drive me home.

Just one of the many reasons I don't deal anymore.

Hysterical.

And speaking of pot limit omaha...this is the game you want to master if you want to make easy money...

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:46 PM
Right, but since I was on the button, and I didn't think that K,10 was that great of a hand with so many people in, I felt the $2 call was not that huge of a bet to see the flop.

I would've bumped it to $13 since you had position hoping to get at least the blinds to fold, and maybe another limper or two...

If I'm playing the button I'm raising the button every time...

Buck
04-19-2008, 03:47 PM
I've played millions of hold 'em hands and I'm flat out telling you that makes no sense...

If that truly happened, then wow, awful...don't know what to say...but I can't possibly fathom that being the case...just makes no sense...he's on a pair draw with a few perfect/perfect draws (maybe)...even the biggest fish aren't that ridiculous.

Im flat out telling you thats exactly what happened.

I know it doesn't make any sense and thats why it pisses me off.

You might not believe me, but that is exactly what happened.

OnTheWarpath58
04-19-2008, 03:48 PM
Hysterical.

And speaking of pot limit omaha...this is the game you want to master if you want to make easy money...

Omaha in any form is far and away my favorite game.

Especially in Vegas. Half of the table had no ****ing clue what they are doing.

"What do you mean my pair of kings is no good?"

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:48 PM
Im flat out telling you thats exactly what happened.

I know it doesn't make any sense and thats why it pisses me off.

You might not believe me, but that is exactly what happened.

well if it makes you feel any better I promise you he left with no money as well...

Buck
04-19-2008, 03:48 PM
I would've bumped it to $13 since you had position hoping to get at least the blinds to fold, and maybe another limper or two...

If I'm playing the button I'm raising the button every time...

You do make a good point, I am not really an expert when it comes to poker, however I usually do take every house game I ever play. But at the casino I have a problem with losing.

I guess its because of idiots who go all In on a pair of kings.

Short Leash Hootie
04-19-2008, 03:50 PM
Omaha in any form is far and away my favorite game.

Especially in Vegas. Half of the table had no ****ing clue what they are doing.

"What do you mean my pair of kings is no good?"

Yep.

A lot of people play with the hold 'em mentality and they are simply dead money...

"I can't fold the 3rd nuts! That would be insane!"

Shit, there are times I fold the stone cold nuts on the flop...

mcan
04-19-2008, 04:45 PM
No, he's not counting cards, or he would have realized that the chances of him making his flush was terrible.

(10/47 x 9/46) = About 4%

KCChiefsMan
04-19-2008, 04:58 PM
God Damnit.

Im labeling the guy who beat me Player A and the guy with K7 Player B

I bet $15 after the flop, Player A called my $15, Player B pushed all in, I called the all in (which pushed me all in), Player B called the all in.

Player B won the hand, but didn't put either of us all in

I hear what you are saying, so the guy called 2 all ins in front of him with 69 with no pair and really no draw. I can't even imagine why he thought that would be a good call, especially against 2 all ins. There are morons who can make this game frustrating but in the long run they will lose.

You played the hand right, but I know how frustrating it is to lose to blind luck like that.

KCChiefsMan
04-19-2008, 05:00 PM
Yep.

A lot of people play with the hold 'em mentality and they are simply dead money...

"I can't fold the 3rd nuts! That would be insane!"

Shit, there are times I fold the stone cold nuts on the flop...

if you hit the nuts on the flop and fold it sometimes? You gotta get your money in when you are ahead man!

JohnnyV13
04-19-2008, 05:20 PM
I would've bumped it to $13 since you had position hoping to get at least the blinds to fold, and maybe another limper or two...

If I'm playing the button I'm raising the button every time...

I don't raise the button every time pre flop when I choose to play the button, because I want to gain more "credibility" for better hands on the button. When I limp on the button, usually it will be with a hand like suited connectors, where having more players isn't necessarily a bad thing.

However, with 7 callers and if I decide to play K 10 off, I definitely will raise. You need to knock out some of the total crap hands and you need to get a better read where you are in the hand. For example, if a middle or early position has A J off, A 10 or a medium pocket pair, they could have limped. Yet, facing a bunch of limpers and a button raise, this guy is likely to push a substantial re raise. Now, at least, I have an idea what I'm facing and will have a better chance to put him on a hand after the flop. Depending on game circumstances and the player, I might toss my K 10, call or re raise.

Or, I could simply steal the hand right there (unlikely in a low limit casino cash game), or set myself up for all kinds of plays after the flop if other players simply call me down.

JohnnyV13
04-19-2008, 05:36 PM
Yep.

A lot of people play with the hold 'em mentality and they are simply dead money...

"I can't fold the 3rd nuts! That would be insane!"

Shit, there are times I fold the stone cold nuts on the flop...


I love pot limit omaha, especially players who think they have a strong hand if they hit 2 pair on the flop.

Buck
04-19-2008, 05:41 PM
I don't raise the button every time pre flop when I choose to play the button, because I want to gain more "credibility" for better hands on the button. When I limp on the button, usually it will be with a hand like suited connectors, where having more players isn't necessarily a bad thing.

However, with 7 callers and if I decide to play K 10 off, I definitely will raise. You need to knock out some of the total crap hands and you need to get a better read where you are in the hand. For example, if a middle or early position has A J off, A 10 or a medium pocket pair, they could have limped. Yet, facing a bunch of limpers and a button raise, this guy is likely to push a substantial re raise. Now, at least, I have an idea what I'm facing and will have a better chance to put him on a hand after the flop. Depending on game circumstances and the player, I might toss my K 10, call or re raise.

Or, I could simply steal the hand right there (unlikely in a low limit casino cash game), or set myself up for all kinds of plays after the flop if other players simply call me down.

Exactly, I admit I am not the greatest hold em player. I dont know the strategy that well.

Pic
04-19-2008, 07:53 PM
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/Picturesspeaklouder/donkey.jpg