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View Full Version : NFL Draft If JA is traded...Gholston is our pick at 5


CanadaKC
04-21-2008, 11:25 PM
I can't see Jake Long dropping to us...Dorsey and Chris Long will be gone...all the other OT's are a reach with this pick...Edwards is apparantly in love with the guy...I can see it coming...:eek:

SBK
04-21-2008, 11:30 PM
I think if Allen is gone Herm will pick a booger. I think he'll pick a booger if Allen stays too.

DaneMcCloud
04-21-2008, 11:31 PM
I'll take Gholston over Clady.

T-post Tom
04-21-2008, 11:43 PM
didn't u hear carl at the last presser? McIntosh is a stud and OT is not a position of need! ;) Or something like that... I do believe that Gholston appears to be "the real deal" in a very non-greghill kinda way

Tribal Warfare
04-21-2008, 11:44 PM
.Edwards is apparantly in love with the guy...I can see it coming...


Where does it say that because they're other sources saying they like Ryan and Ellis too?

Guru
04-21-2008, 11:44 PM
If you didn't hear this at WPI then it cannot possibly be true.

BigRock
04-22-2008, 12:12 AM
Who says Herm loves Gholston? I've read the total opposite of that, and the big knock on Gholston the past few weeks is he doesn't show up as often as you'd like on the game film. Herm's a big game film guy.

J Diddy
04-22-2008, 12:15 AM
If you didn't hear this at WPI then it cannot possibly be true.


I cannot tell you what I heard at wpi

They have killers you know.

J Diddy
04-22-2008, 12:16 AM
Who says Herm loves Gholston? I've read the total opposite of that, and the big knock on Gholston the past few weeks is he doesn't show up as often as you'd like on the game film. Herm's a big game film guy.


I think herm does a good job confusing everyone, I just wish he'd give it a break gameday

WPI
04-22-2008, 03:33 AM
Right.. Duh.... CP's son?

PhillyChiefFan
04-22-2008, 07:42 AM
So even if we do get a 1st rounder and a 3rd for Jared Allen we have to expend one of those picks replacing him so basically all we would get is a 3rd round pick for a top tier DE and their pick is what, #17??

I like Gholston, I'm a PSU fan so its a love/hate thing but he is solid. I just think its a shame that we are going to get rid of JA for an untested NFL rookie, who we are still going to have to give #5 money to.

DaKCMan AP
04-22-2008, 07:47 AM
So even if we do get a 1st rounder and a 3rd for Jared Allen we have to expend one of those picks replacing him so basically all we would get is a 3rd round pick for a top tier DE and their pick is what, #17??


No. We don't have to spend one of those picks replacing him. If the BPA at #5 is Chris Long, fine. Otherwise we should still take Jake Long, Glenn Dorsey or Sedrick Ellis (Gholston or Ryan if the FO really believes they're the BPA). We should make the exact same pick at #5 regardless of whether JA is traded or not.

PhillyChiefFan
04-22-2008, 07:54 AM
No. We don't have to spend one of those picks replacing him. If the BPA at #5 is Chris Long, fine. Otherwise we should still take Jake Long, Glenn Dorsey or Sedrick Ellis (Gholston or Ryan if the FO really believes they're the BPA). We should make the exact same pick at #5 regardless of whether JA is traded or not.

I completely agree, I was going off of the thread title to draft Gholston. Was simply making that very point, that if we drafted Gholston basically we would have only gotten a 3rd rounder for Allen. If I were drafting I would draft BPA also. I believe Ellis will be there at 5 but if Long is there I would grab him in a heartbeat, I love his tenacity and power.

C. Long wouldn't be an upgrade to JA but would certainly compliment the line. but I agree, I would draft as if JA was still on the line. And upgrade interior DL or if J. Long is there grab him for OL.

bkkcoh
04-22-2008, 07:57 AM
Who says Herm loves Gholston? I've read the total opposite of that, and the big knock on Gholston the past few weeks is he doesn't show up as often as you'd like on the game film. Herm's a big game film guy.

Being in buckeye country, I would have to agree with that, there is no way he is going to justify being a top 15 pick in the 1st round. He is way overrated. Where was he against LSU? O$U plays such a weak schedule most of thier players don't perform in the NFL at the star level like they are projected.

Chiefs, please don't waste your pick on Gholston..... :banghead:

Spectre
04-22-2008, 08:01 AM
Sounds like the Chiefs are about to make another stellar roster move. LMAO.

suds79
04-22-2008, 08:02 AM
Uh please no.

If a trade doesn't happen and it plays out like in the example, IMO Ellis or Ryan would be better picks as far as BPA.

DaKCMan AP
04-22-2008, 08:04 AM
Being in buckeye country, I would have to agree with that, there is no way he is going to justify being a top 15 pick in the 1st round. He is way overrated. Where was he against LSU? O$U plays such a weak schedule most of thier players don't perform in the NFL at the star level like they are projected.

Chiefs, please don't waste your pick on Gholston..... :banghead:

Don't tell that to kcchiefsfangolj who would take Gholston over Chris Long (and just about anyone else) LMAO


I see Gholston as a smaller, but stronger and more athletic Derrick Harvey.

Chiefnj2
04-22-2008, 08:21 AM
Pay $22M for an untested rookie DE and trade away the established player who was asking for guaranteed money in the neighborhood of 30 million. Yep, that about makes sense for the Chiefs.

OnTheWarpath58
04-22-2008, 08:48 AM
People are getting carried away with this.

What if Gholston is the BPA at 5?

What if they were planning on picking him regardless of what happens with JA?

People are so quick to say we're wasting a pick to "replace" Allen.....

We don't NEED to replace Allen. We need the best players we can get regardless. If it happens to be a DE, so be it.

Brock
04-22-2008, 08:55 AM
Who says Herm loves Gholston? I've read the total opposite of that, and the big knock on Gholston the past few weeks is he doesn't show up as often as you'd like on the game film. Herm's a big game film guy.

Peter King says Edwards likes Gholston.

Chiefnj2
04-22-2008, 08:57 AM
People are getting carried away with this.

What if Gholston is the BPA at 5?

What if they were planning on picking him regardless of what happens with JA?

People are so quick to say we're wasting a pick to "replace" Allen.....

We don't NEED to replace Allen. We need the best players we can get regardless. If it happens to be a DE, so be it.

They don't have a strict BPA list. They have clusters damnit.

KCUnited
04-22-2008, 08:59 AM
I wish I was confident that this team would take the BPA, but I have a feeling whether Jared is on this team or not, we will be drafting for need, and that is Oline.

eazyb81
04-22-2008, 09:00 AM
People are getting carried away with this.

What if Gholston is the BPA at 5?

What if they were planning on picking him regardless of what happens with JA?

People are so quick to say we're wasting a pick to "replace" Allen.....

We don't NEED to replace Allen. We need the best players we can get regardless. If it happens to be a DE, so be it.

Sure we don't NEED to replace Allen, but I can understand people who are pissed at getting rid of one of the best DEs in football and replacing him with an untested DE who at best will play like Allen at basically the same price.

OnTheWarpath58
04-22-2008, 09:00 AM
They don't have a strict BPA list. They have clusters damnit.

Clusters, BPA, I don't give a shit.

The point stands.

People just need something to bitch about, and if we draft C. Long or Gholston, it's going to be because we needed to replace Allen, not because they were the best player for the team in the "cluster" that was available.

OnTheWarpath58
04-22-2008, 09:01 AM
Sure we don't NEED to replace Allen, but I can understand people who are pissed at getting rid of one of the best DEs in football and replacing him with an untested DE who at best will play like Allen at basically the same price.

So what if they were planning on drafting one of them and keeping Allen?

What difference does it make?

People are just hung up on replacing Allen.

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 09:31 AM
Being in buckeye country, I would have to agree with that, there is no way he is going to justify being a top 15 pick in the 1st round. He is way overrated. Where was he against LSU? O$U plays such a weak schedule most of thier players don't perform in the NFL at the star level like they are projected.

Chiefs, please don't waste your pick on Gholston..... :banghead:

You shut your mouth when your talking to me (Wedding Crashers). No way Gholston is overrated, some say he disappears, show me a DE that doesn't disappear sometime during the game, if they stop running at you, your tackles are going to go down, because your not going to be able to run down everybody. He pressured Flynn quite a bit in the LSU game, I will hand it to Flynn he got rid of the ball very well when he was pressured. Uh OSU players dont play well in the NFL????????? Ever heard of Mike Vrabel, Terry Glenn, Chris Carter, Eddie George, AJ Hawk, Shawn Spring, Antoine Winfield, Ahmed Plummer, Mike Doss, Jack Tatum. I mean seriously come on, you can say players from all schools have been rated high and never projected to what they "should of been" in the NFL.

Just a taste of what Gholston has done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE2y_ypR9wQ&NR=1

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 09:36 AM
Don't tell that to kcchiefsfangolj who would take Gholston over Chris Long (and just about anyone else) LMAO


I see Gholston as a smaller, but stronger and more athletic Derrick Harvey.


It's true I do like Gholston over C.Long. I would like to have Gholston, but if we keep JA, I will say what I have said all year, I would take Glenn Dorsey in a heartbeat. I would take Sed Ellis also if we keep JA. Chris Long isn't going to be there when we draft anyway so your point about me liking Gholston is moot.

boogblaster
04-22-2008, 09:53 AM
We need OL... We need OL... We need OL .....

Son of Logical
04-22-2008, 09:55 AM
Ok, I have watched tape of Gholston, and I am left unimpressed. I do think he is a round 1 type of guy, but not at number 5 to us. If we trade JA to Minnesota, and get their pick. I would like to see us get either Dorsey or Ellis at 5 (I would like to get Chris Long but I think that he is going to be gone), and get Clady at 17. I don't think Clady is top 5 talent, but after looking more into the guy I think at 17 he could really help this team. This way we have studs on both sides of the line, and we all know if you have a great line on both sides you win ball games.

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 10:03 AM
Ok, I have watched tape of Gholston, and I am left unimpressed. I do think he is a round 1 type of guy, but not at number 5 to us. If we trade JA to Minnesota, and get their pick. I would like to see us get either Dorsey or Ellis at 5 (I would like to get Chris Long but I think that he is going to be gone), and get Clady at 17. I don't think Clady is top 5 talent, but after looking more into the guy I think at 17 he could really help this team. This way we have studs on both sides of the line, and we all know if you have a great line on both sides you win ball games.

Your idea of tape would be? Not another youtube only homer, eh? Not attacking you or anything at all like that, I get tired of people who say they watch tape when all they do is watch a youtube clip. I am the first to say if my opinion on someone is speculation or I have actually watched the person play and really watched them, not just listened for when their name was announced.

Anyong Bluth
04-22-2008, 10:10 AM
WTFITPOT....


Give up a known top notch DE who we have to pay big money to so we can give up big money to a top 5 pick that hasn't proven chit that we just had to use that pcik to replace our All Pro DE... =stupid.

I don't think Jake or Chris Long will be there at 5. If Dorsey somehow is there at 5 I think we take that pick, but also unlikely. If Matt Ryan is available at 5, I think we'll be hearing from Baltimore about wanting to trade up to pick him up, and we could more than likely get their 2nd- at least their 3rd. Carl can hold the fact that they are getting a shot at the top QB in the draft- which doesn't slot as evenly b/c the premium placed on the position. If that happens, I think we take Ellis at #8. Baltimore could call our bluff, but I could see Carl and Herm being like, that's fine, he grades out and is a position of possible need, so Baltimore can't feel totally confident sitting tight at 8.

With our 2nd 1st rounder (presumably from the Vikings) I think we look at taking an OT or CB- whichever position has a player that grades out higher for us- unless of course someone is on the board that we think has slid way too far based upon their talent.

That would probably mean we would picks in the 2nd round of:
#35 our original
#38 Baltimore's pick

#47 Minnesota's pick. If we're moving JA before on on draft day, I think they won't take anything less, and would be more than willing to let the Vikings try to sign him to an offer sheet after the draft- which they'd give up 2 #1's but 2 years off and their value drops- which Carl would probably take, but I could totally see him matching just to say F-off to them, but I think Herm would like the idea of 2 extra 1's over the next 2 years.

CanadaKC
04-22-2008, 10:11 AM
It's beginning to look like the perfect storm, as I said in my original post, for us to draft Gholston. The Longs will both be gone before we pick, Dorsey looks to be gone as well, and I don't see us taking Ryan at #5. All the other O-line talent is a reach at #5...and Gholston is the next BPA. If Parcells thinks Gholston is the second coming of Demarcus Ware...that's a pretty good sign of how good this kid is. I just hope Carl can somehow get a 1st and at least a 2nd for JA...

Sure-Oz
04-22-2008, 10:14 AM
It's beginning to look like the perfect storm, as I said in my original post, for us to draft Gholston. The Longs will both be gone before we pick, Dorsey looks to be gone as well, and I don't see us taking Ryan at #5. All the other O-line talent is a reach at #5...and Gholston is the next BPA. If Parcells thinks Gholston is the second coming of Demarcus Ware...that's a pretty good sign of how good this kid is. I just hope Carl can somehow get a 1st and at least a 2nd for JA...

I hope we take the BPA, even if it is Gholston, but if it's between Ryan and Gholston id want Ryan more...im just ready for teh draft to get here!

bkkcoh
04-22-2008, 10:33 AM
You shut your mouth when your talking to me (Wedding Crashers). No way Gholston is overrated, some say he disappears, show me a DE that doesn't disappear sometime during the game, if they stop running at you, your tackles are going to go down, because your not going to be able to run down everybody. He pressured Flynn quite a bit in the LSU game, I will hand it to Flynn he got rid of the ball very well when he was pressured. Uh OSU players dont play well in the NFL????????? Ever heard of Mike Vrabel, Terry Glenn, Chris Carter, Eddie George, AJ Hawk, Shawn Spring, Antoine Winfield, Ahmed Plummer, Mike Doss, Jack Tatum. I mean seriously come on, you can say players from all schools have been rated high and never projected to what they "should of been" in the NFL.

Just a taste of what Gholston has done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE2y_ypR9wQ&NR=1


Step away from the kool-aid and put the cup down, don't drink anymore.

If I had a couple of players to choose from, 1 from a conference like the Big 10 or a team from the SEC, I would take the player from the SEC. It is a stronger conference from top to bottom and would be tested more week-in and week-out.

Considering how strong of a team that OSU was supposed to have, they sure have flopped when it comes to bowl games.

I am not saying that there haven't been some good players from O$U, but consider they are seriously overrated coming out of O$U.

Anyong Bluth
04-22-2008, 10:35 AM
It's beginning to look like the perfect storm, as I said in my original post, for us to draft Gholston. The Longs will both be gone before we pick, Dorsey looks to be gone as well, and I don't see us taking Ryan at #5. All the other O-line talent is a reach at #5...and Gholston is the next BPA. If Parcells thinks Gholston is the second coming of Demarcus Ware...that's a pretty good sign of how good this kid is. I just hope Carl can somehow get a 1st and at least a 2nd for JA...

Too bad I think JA is still a bigger bad@ss than Ware. NFL sackleader when only playing 14 games, stout against the run, doesn't take plays off, and even contributes on offense- not to mention showing some real heart and getting guys fired up. Can't fault the guy for hating Carl- everyone else around here does, which is why he should be forced to stay, just like we, as fans, have been held at siege by the D-bag for nearly 20 years.

Suck that we can't get either the top DT or OT, but if we can do the move with Baltimore and really look at stockpiling a bunch of fresh guys, I'd feel at least a bit better. I assume we're gonna suck next year, and will have a better idea of how Brody will work out- which means we could be primed for a higher or probably at least = pick to this year to take the top QB next year.

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 10:35 AM
Step away from the kool-aid and put the cup down, don't drink anymore.

If I had a couple of players to choose from, 1 from a conference like the Big 10 or a team from the SEC, I would take the player from the SEC. It is a stronger conference from top to bottom and would be tested more week-in and week-out.

Considering how strong of a team that OSU was supposed to have, they sure have flopped when it comes to bowl games.

I am not saying that there haven't been some good players from O$U, but consider they are seriously overrated coming out of O$U.

:stupid:

chiefscafan
04-22-2008, 10:39 AM
ok all the highlight film i've watched on Gohlston I have one question is he big enough to play de in the nfl?

Anyong Bluth
04-22-2008, 10:40 AM
By the way... wouldn't BPA probably be McFadden, since he's probably going to be there based on the latest projections.

Here's one time I wouldn't take BPA b/c we can't move them at all, and I'm a firm believer that b/c of the shelf life of RB's they are rarely worth going after that high. Give me a solid line up front that you can pay less to open holes and an avg back can look pretty damn good.

That said- watching Petersen last year was pretty sick- luckily they have a pretty sweet line blocking and oh ya- T-Rich lead blocking for him!

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 10:42 AM
It's beginning to look like the perfect storm, as I said in my original post, for us to draft Gholston. The Longs will both be gone before we pick, Dorsey looks to be gone as well, and I don't see us taking Ryan at #5. All the other O-line talent is a reach at #5...and Gholston is the next BPA. If Parcells thinks Gholston is the second coming of Demarcus Ware...that's a pretty good sign of how good this kid is. I just hope Carl can somehow get a 1st and at least a 2nd for JA...

Well see the thing is everyone freaks out because you make them think wether or not they would take one person. Some are all over one guy and some hate that guy or think he is trash. Like I have said I would be happy to have Gholston, but I would take Dorsey and Ellis over him because, If we keep JA and put one of those studs on the line, we are going to have one of the better D-Lines in the league. I have even grown to the thought of having Matt Ryan, not over either of the Longs, Dorsey, Ellis, or Gholston, but I think I wouldn't be driven to throw my tv out the window if we took Ryan.

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 10:43 AM
ok all the highlight film i've watched on Gohlston I have one question is he big enough to play de in the nfl?

6'4 264 of pure muscle and athleticism, yes he is definetely big enough and strong enough to play DE LOL.

bkkcoh
04-22-2008, 10:44 AM
:stupid:



I see it is too late, the kool-aid has already impacted your thinking process.


When O$U stops getting their schedule from the bakery then come and talk to me.


Indiana, Minnesote, Purdue, Northwestern are really tough teams. Michigan used to be their only question mark on their schedule. and then you throw in teams like Akron and Youngstown State in the mix, that is the true icing on the cake.

I realize that schools make their schedules years in advance, but some of them are truly sad.

Most of the college programs are guilty of this though.

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 10:50 AM
I see it is too late, the kool-aid has already impacted your thinking process.


When O$U stops getting their schedule from the bakery then come and talk to me.


Indiana, Minnesote, Purdue, Northwestern are really tough teams. Michigan used to be their only question mark on their schedule. and then you throw in teams like Akron and Youngstown State in the mix, that is the true icing on the cake.

I realize that schools make their schedules years in advance, but some of them are truly sad.

Most of the college programs are guilty of this though.

Oh I guess USC is a nobody? Once again :stupid: I dont know whats worse reading your crap or DaKcMans garbage.

ChiefButthurt
04-22-2008, 10:58 AM
Somebody help me with this logic. Why in the hell would you trade away Jared Allen and then make your priority a DE in the first pick??? Hell I thought the team was more entertaining losing 38 to 35, then the current condition of the team. BUILD THE ****ING O-LINE PLEASE.

DaKCMan AP
04-22-2008, 10:58 AM
Oh I guess USC is a nobody? Once again :stupid: I dont know whats worse reading your crap or DaKcMans garbage.

By garbage you must mean high-quality, educated, intelligent viewpoint. ;)

DaKCMan AP
04-22-2008, 11:00 AM
Somebody help me with this logic. Why in the hell would you trade away Jared Allen and then make your priority a DE in the first pick??? Hell I thought the team was more entertaining losing 38 to 35, then the current condition of the team. BUILD THE ****ING O-LINE PLEASE.

1. DE doesn't become a 'priority' - it's still BPA available at #5.

2. Refer to #1 to realize that there isn't a viable OL option at the #5 pick.

bkkcoh
04-22-2008, 11:02 AM
Oh I guess USC is a nobody? Once again :stupid: I dont know whats worse reading your crap or DaKcMans garbage.

and we will see how they do against them.

Who else have they scheduled that was either in the pre-season top 25 or ended the previous season in the top-25?

ChiefButthurt
04-22-2008, 11:03 AM
1. DE doesn't become a 'priority' - it's still BPA available at #5.

2. Refer to #1 to realize that there isn't a viable OL option at the #5 pick.

Understood. However, I know everyone must see the irony of that choice. A sellout of the defense. Trade away a solid player and you gotta replace them immediately with your only hope for the future...the draft. Just puzzling.

bkkcoh
04-22-2008, 11:05 AM
Oh I guess USC is a nobody? Once again :stupid: I dont know whats worse reading your crap or DaKcMans garbage.

TACKLES FOR LOSS TOT YSU AKRON WASH NU MINN PUR KENT MSU PSU WIS ILL MICH LSU
Gholston, V......... 15-1 0.5-1 1.0-5 - 2.0-23 - - 2.0-9 - 1.0-7 4.0-32 - 4.0-21 1.0-15

TOTAL TACKLES TOT YSU AKRON WASH NU MINN PUR KENT MSU PSU WIS ILL MICH LSU
Gholston, V......... 25-12 2-2 1-1 1-0 3-0 1-1 1-0 2-2 1-1 1-0 4-0 3-2 1-4 1-2



Those numbers are worthy of a #5 pick in the 1st round?
he wure was good against no-name opponents, wasn't he......

O$U Stats Link (http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/fls/17300/stats/football/2007/indgbg.htm#IGBG.TFL)

the Talking Can
04-22-2008, 11:10 AM
is Ghoulston really the next Merriman?

seems like after Merriman, everyone is searching for the next "Merriman" and guys who aren't as good have their value inflated..wasn't Merriman the #17-ish pick?

same with Adrien Peterson...because of him people are hot for McFadden when there is little reason or evidence to draft any RB that high...

I'd still much rather have Ellis than Ghoulston, if we aren't going to take Ryan....simply based on the value of their positions and wanting to finally shore up the middle of our defense

ChiefButthurt
04-22-2008, 11:12 AM
TACKLES FOR LOSS UA-A YSU AKRON WASH NU MINN PUR KENT MSU PSU WIS ILL MICH LSU
Gholston, V......... 15-1 0.5-1 1.0-5 - 2.0-23 - - 2.0-9 - 1.0-7 4.0-32 - 4.0-21 1.0-15

TOTAL TACKLES UA-A YSU AKRON WASH NU MINN PUR KENT MSU PSU WIS ILL MICH LSU
Gholston, V......... 25-12 2-2 1-1 1-0 3-0 1-1 1-0 2-2 1-1 1-0 4-0 3-2 1-4 1-2



Those numbers are worthy of a #5 pick in the 1st round?
he wure was good against no-name opponents, wasn't he......

O$U Stats Link (http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/fls/17300/stats/football/2007/indgbg.htm#IGBG.TFL)

Forget it....you're not going to convince the Buckeye haters. We'll see someone in the championship game in 09. :clap:

DaKCMan AP
04-22-2008, 11:19 AM
We'll see someone in the championship game in 09. :clap:

ROFLROFLROFL

chiefscafan
04-22-2008, 11:19 AM
well yes i know his ht weight but all I hear is he is a fit for 3-4 ds

how does he fit in our cover 2 4-3?

DaKCMan AP
04-22-2008, 11:22 AM
well yes i know his ht weight but all I hear is he is a fit for 3-4 ds

how does he fit in our cover 2 4-3?

He's 2" taller and about the same weight as Dwight Freeney.

Son of Logical
04-22-2008, 11:52 AM
Your idea of tape would be? Not another youtube only homer, eh? Not attacking you or anything at all like that, I get tired of people who say they watch tape when all they do is watch a youtube clip. I am the first to say if my opinion on someone is speculation or I have actually watched the person play and really watched them, not just listened for when their name was announced.

No, I don't watch youtube. I actually kind of pay attention to OSU games, I knew Michael Whiley and ever since he went there I have somewhat followed OSU. I watched accouple of their games in 07, and yes he stood out, but he didn't dominate. A player that goes in the top 5 should dominate, I just never saw that from him. Maybe my watching tape thing was a little ambiguous, maybe "after watching him play this year" would of been better. I wouldn't be pissed if we picked him, but I think Dorsey or Ellis would be better.

Anyong Bluth
04-22-2008, 12:08 PM
Forget it....you're not going to convince the Buckeye haters. We'll see someone in the championship game in 09. :clap:


Not arguing that tOSU isn't a quality squad, but why doesn't the Big10 do themselves a favor and get a damn Conf Championship game, and quit embarrassing themselves by backing into title games only to look like a joke and making the entire Big10 look overrated?

The BCS should require any team playing in the title game to be required to play a conf. championship game. If they don't, they can be selected for a different BCS game but not the title game.

As someone that doesn't have a dog in this fight, from my outside opinion, I'd have to agree that I think SEC players tend to make better pro players than the B10. Just my opinion, and that's just based off my gut instinct.

suds79
04-22-2008, 12:49 PM
By the way... wouldn't BPA probably be McFadden, since he's probably going to be there based on the latest projections.

Good question. But no we don't and here's why.

I certainly hope the Chiefs are taking this into account when determining the BPA.

IMO, part of evaluating BPA goes into what position they play. Ex: QB is a bigger impact position than say Safety. So if you have a QB and a Safety you rate pretty equal in the quality department, the push goes easily to QB because it's a much bigger impact position.

Now for McFadden. IMO, his BPA raiting (or whatever you call it) slips because RBs have a short life in the NFL and they're easy to find in the mid rounds (ex: Kolby Smith)

So that takes his value down.

Teams have got to take into account the position guys play.

Tribal Warfare
04-22-2008, 12:59 PM
Peter King says Edwards likes Gholston.

Others say he Likes Ellis too

OnTheWarpath58
04-22-2008, 01:01 PM
Others say he Likes Ellis too

I think that the Dolphins have set this whole thing into motion, and it works out great for us.

J. Long
Dorsey
Ryan
C. Long
Ellis

AustinChief
04-22-2008, 01:06 PM
I would definitely take Gholston over Ellis... but I certainly wouldn't throw a fit if Ellis is the pick.

Gholston will be a beast in the NFL.

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 01:22 PM
TACKLES FOR LOSS TOT YSU AKRON WASH NU MINN PUR KENT MSU PSU WIS ILL MICH LSU
Gholston, V......... 15-1 0.5-1 1.0-5 - 2.0-23 - - 2.0-9 - 1.0-7 4.0-32 - 4.0-21 1.0-15

TOTAL TACKLES TOT YSU AKRON WASH NU MINN PUR KENT MSU PSU WIS ILL MICH LSU
Gholston, V......... 25-12 2-2 1-1 1-0 3-0 1-1 1-0 2-2 1-1 1-0 4-0 3-2 1-4 1-2



Those numbers are worthy of a #5 pick in the 1st round?
he wure was good against no-name opponents, wasn't he......

O$U Stats Link (http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/fls/17300/stats/football/2007/indgbg.htm#IGBG.TFL)



:lame: Your feeble attempts at trying to show me up are terrible. If you want to play the "stats are the most important thing" then lets play. The best DT in the draft according to bkkcoh is Tervor Laws because his stats are better than any DT's in the draft. :rolleyes:

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 01:23 PM
ROFLROFLROFL

It sure as hell wont be you guys so I dont know what your laughing at.

DaKCMan AP
04-22-2008, 01:30 PM
It sure as hell wont be you guys so I dont know what your laughing at.

We have a much better shot than OSU. It'll be either us or UGA.

bkkcoh
04-22-2008, 01:34 PM
:lame: Your feeble attempts at trying to show me up are terrible. If you want to play the "stats are the most important thing" then lets play. The best DT in the draft according to bkkcoh is Tervor Laws because his stats are better than any DT's in the draft. :rolleyes:

Not at all, I just don't by all of the Gholston is a god talk. that is all.

A defensive end shold average more then 3 tackles a game, should they?

Like I said, quit drinking the kool-aid, there maybe hope afterall.....

bkkcoh
04-22-2008, 01:35 PM
No, I don't watch youtube. I actually kind of pay attention to OSU games, I knew Michael Whiley and ever since he went there I have somewhat followed OSU. I watched accouple of their games in 07, and yes he stood out, but he didn't dominate. A player that goes in the top 5 should dominate, I just never saw that from him. Maybe my watching tape thing was a little ambiguous, maybe "after watching him play this year" would of been better. I wouldn't be pissed if we picked him, but I think Dorsey or Ellis would be better.

Thank you for helping me try to make that point.

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 01:35 PM
We have a much better shot than OSU. It'll be either us or UGA.

Wow you must be smoking crack if you think you have a better chance than us, we lost one good player to the draft and that is Gholston. We have the best CB in the country as well as the best LB in the country. As well as one of the best O-Lines and Beanie Wells is going to make a run at the Heisman if he stays healthy. I dont know if you have heard of one of the recruits we picked up his name is Terrelle Pryor, I think he is supposed to be ok ;)

OnTheWarpath58
04-22-2008, 01:36 PM
Not at all, I just don't by all of the Gholston is a god talk. that is all.

A defensive end shold average more then 3 tackles a game, should they?

Like I said, quit drinking the kool-aid, there maybe hope afterall.....

The God that is Jared Allen averaged a whopping FOUR tackles per game last year.

Micjones
04-22-2008, 01:38 PM
I'd take Gholston if Allen were traded.

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 01:41 PM
Not at all, I just don't by all of the Gholston is a god talk. that is all.

A defensive end shold average more then 3 tackles a game, should they?

Like I said, quit drinking the kool-aid, there maybe hope afterall.....

Im not drinking any kool aid, I never said Gholston was the best in the draft, never even said he was the best DE in the draft. You need to stop all the OSU bashing your doing and focus on the subject at hand. You go from Gholston is overrated to every player that came from OSU has been way overrated and never lived up to billing.

If your gauging Gholston's ability on his tackle numbers, what do you think about Dwight Freeney who isnt the best against the run, or even JA who was questioned against the run? Your not going to get a perfect DE who gets every tackle and every sack, most DE's accel in either or. Now some DE's do get more tackles because of sheer desire and a great never stop motor, but not everyone puts up ungodly numbers in both.

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 01:44 PM
The God that is Jared Allen averaged a whopping FOUR tackles per game last year.

Wow bkkcoh, is OTW on the kool aid too?

DaKCMan AP
04-22-2008, 02:16 PM
Wow you must be smoking crack if you think you have a better chance than us, we lost one good player to the draft and that is Gholston. We have the best CB in the country as well as the best LB in the country. As well as one of the best O-Lines and Beanie Wells is going to make a run at the Heisman if he stays healthy. I dont know if you have heard of one of the recruits we picked up his name is Terrelle Pryor, I think he is supposed to be ok ;)

Umm.. getting blown out 2 years in a row is not going to help your chances in the polls. If OSU loses 1 game they're out. I don't know if you've heard of Tim Tebow, but he won the Heisman and he's back. There's also some guy named Percy Harvin and a great senior TE/WR Cornelius Ingram. Our offense is going to be sick this season. Nearly unstoppable. Our defense will be much improved with a year of experience and a bunch of top recruits. LB Brandon Spikes is a man among boys and will be a top-15 pick in next year's draft. That, playing in the SEC and having a much easier schedule than last year gives us the edge. The game for the entire country to circle on their calendars is Fla/Ga in Jax. Can't wait to go to that one.

But, you were right about OSU beating Florida and about OSU beating LSU, so I guess you'll be right about this too. ;)

BigRock
04-22-2008, 02:51 PM
Peter King says Edwards likes Gholston.
I think King is the only person saying that, and he's the same guy who said a week ago not to believe anything coming out of KC because they're going to be angling to get both the Jets and Pats to move up.

Suggesting Herm likes Gholston only helps that cause along, so why King would believe it and repeat it is anyone's guess.

bkkcoh
04-22-2008, 02:52 PM
The God that is Jared Allen averaged a whopping FOUR tackles per game last year.

He was missing from some games also. I realize that there isn't any player that plays 100% on EVERY SINGLE PLAY. But a playmaker makes more plays, more consistently.

I don't think Gholston is on the level.

Chiefnj2
04-22-2008, 02:56 PM
The God that is Jared Allen averaged a whopping FOUR tackles per game last year.

Did Allen get to play against Kent State, Youngstown , Akron and the Golden Gophers?

Gholston isn't consistent enough to be considered with a top 5 pick as a 4-3 DE.

SBK
04-22-2008, 03:03 PM
OSU might make the big game because they play in DIV 2.

Then again, there is that early season game at USC.....Which means OSU plays 1 good team this year.

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 03:06 PM
Umm.. getting blown out 2 years in a row is not going to help your chances in the polls. If OSU loses 1 game they're out. I don't know if you've heard of Tim Tebow, but he won the Heisman and he's back. There's also some guy named Percy Harvin and a great senior TE/WR Cornelius Ingram. Our offense is going to be sick this season. Nearly unstoppable. Our defense will be much improved with a year of experience and a bunch of top recruits. LB Brandon Spikes is a man among boys and will be a top-15 pick in next year's draft. That, playing in the SEC and having a much easier schedule than last year gives us the edge. The game for the entire country to circle on their calendars is Fla/Ga in Jax. Can't wait to go to that one.

But, you were right about OSU beating Florida and about OSU beating LSU, so I guess you'll be right about this too. ;)


I never guranteed anything, I said I thought they would win, and we got beat both times, and it sucked, and you move on. Well at least I can always take pleasure in knowing you were the idiot who guranteed that Michigan wouldn't beat Florida, and what ended up happening in that game? Mr. Heisman wasn't doing to well on his back, and old Percy was puking his guts up because he was so exhausted, but thats not because the Big 10 has any speed, because we all know that the Big 10 cant hang with SEC Speed :rolleyes:. No, you think you know everything about anything, and you strut around her like a rooster with his feathers out, trying to get everyone to aknowledge how brilliant and smart you are. Your not impressing many people around here. ROFL

El Jefe
04-22-2008, 03:10 PM
Did Allen get to play against Kent State, Youngstown , Akron and the Golden Gophers?
Gholston isn't consistent enough to be considered with a top 5 pick as a 4-3 DE.

What a smartass. It's always fun when idiot's like yourself start saying stupid crap like "JA would dominate that College schedule". Well I would hope that he would considering he is in the NFL.:rolleyes:

DaKCMan AP
04-22-2008, 03:11 PM
I never guranteed anything, I said I thought they would win, and we got beat both times, and it sucked, and you move on. Well at least I can always take pleasure in knowing you were the idiot who guranteed that Michigan wouldn't beat Florida, and what ended up happening in that game? Mr. Heisman wasn't doing to well on his back, and old Percy was puking his guts up because he was so exhausted, but thats not because the Big 10 has any speed, because we all know that the Big 10 cant hang with SEC Speed :rolleyes:. No, you think you know everything about anything, and you strut around her like a rooster with his feathers out, trying to get everyone to aknowledge how brilliant and smart you are. Your not impressing many people around here. ROFL

LMAO I love to gurantee things, strut around her and get aknowledged.

I do appreciate you noticing how brilliant and smart I am.

Chiefnj2
04-22-2008, 03:29 PM
What a smartass. It's always fun when idiot's like yourself start saying stupid crap like "JA would dominate that College schedule". Well I would hope that he would considering he is in the NFL.:rolleyes:

So what is your excuse for why Gholston couldn't dominate poor teams (and good teams like LSU)?

bkkcoh
04-23-2008, 06:55 AM
What a smartass. It's always fun when idiot's like yourself start saying stupid crap like "JA would dominate that College schedule". Well I would hope that he would considering he is in the NFL.:rolleyes:

So what is your excuse for why Gholston couldn't dominate poor teams (and good teams like LSU)?

Well???

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 09:36 AM
Story Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/stewart_mandel/04/23/2008draft/1.html)


Linebacker
Overrated: Vernon Gholston, Ohio State

A) I couldn't find a pure linebacker I thought was overrated, but some are projecting Gholston to play such in a 3-4. B) I've never understood all the fuss over this guy. I've watched a lot of Ohio State games over the past two years and only once did I see him truly dominate a contest. That was last year's Michigan game, when he had three sacks. (He did have four sacks against Wisconsin, but that game was on the Big Ten Network, so I can't be sure it actually took place.) Most notably, Gholston was a non-factor in both of the Buckeyes' BCS title-game appearances the past two seasons (against Florida in 2006 and LSU in '07). What am I missing here?

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 09:39 AM
Wasn't ghostlon double teamed at times too? I still think he can be a hell of a player and wouldnt bitch if we got him...esp if long and dorsey are not there. I wouldnt mind ellis either

Tribal Warfare
04-24-2008, 09:41 AM
Wasn't ghostlon double teamed at times too? I still think he can be a hell of a player and wouldnt bitch if we got him...esp if long and dorsey are not there. I wouldnt mind ellis either


IMO KC is targeting DE Brian Johnston in the later rounds, so a possible trade down with the Jets/Pats would be feasible to to select Ellis

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 09:45 AM
IMO KC is targeting DE Brian Johnston in the later rounds, so a possible trade down with the Jets/Pats would be feasible to to select Ellis

Whatever is best for the team, but i like Gholstons physical tools and potential as well, but ive all along leaned toward ellis since i didnt think we'd grab dorsey or long..

I am pretty excited to see how everything plays out

DaKCMan AP
04-24-2008, 09:47 AM
IMO KC is targeting DE Brian Johnston in the later rounds, so a possible trade down with the Jets/Pats would be feasible to to select Ellis

I'd love to get Johnston sometime on the 2nd day.

Chiefnj2
04-24-2008, 09:50 AM
IMHO, a 4-3 team will be better off with Harvey than Gholston. Gholston is a top 15 pick because of his workouts, not because of game film.

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 09:51 AM
Well???

Well what? You can make an excuse for anything. I could say well he didn't dominate because he was just one piece of the best defense in the country last year. Rated either first or second in 11 defensive categories, he played with arguably the best LB and CB in the country. He played on a line that was very deep, and our defense was very good at stopping the run. Did you even watch the BCS, Gholston pressured Flynn all night and was double teamed all night as well. Like I previously stated Flynn did a heck of a job avoiding sacks and getting rid of the ball. So since Dorsey didn't dominate the BCS game either should we not pick him because he didn't have 20 tackles and 10 sacks like you think anyone buddy who is good on the line should get?

You were border line lame with half of the stuff you posted earlier in this thread, and now your just lame. We get the point you don't like Gholston and think he is very overrated, you said what you thought, and everyone knows what you think. So now if you could do us a favor and shut up about it, you would be a lot less annoying.

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 09:52 AM
I'd love to get Johnston sometime on the 2nd day.

Who is this johnston guy? What round is he probably going to get picked

Tribal Warfare
04-24-2008, 09:55 AM
Who is this johnston guy? What round is he probably going to get picked



http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=182224

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 10:01 AM
IMHO, a 4-3 team will be better off with Harvey than Gholston. Gholston is a top 15 pick because of his workouts, not because of game film.

So his two sacks on Jake Long where he just destroyed Long really doesn't matter, I mean Jake long isn't very good right? Every one of his knocks have been posted in this thread about 10 times over. You can find negatives on any player out there. You act as if Gholston was some scrub who just went to the combine put up some good numbers and vaulted himself in the first round. If you didn't hear Gholstons name throughout the season then you either dont watch college football or dont listen to any talk radio. He isnt some flash in the pan.

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 10:02 AM
I'd love to get Johnston sometime on the 2nd day.

Likewise, he would be a pretty good pickup.

Chiefnj2
04-24-2008, 10:08 AM
IMHO, a 4-3 team will be better off with Harvey than Gholston. Gholston is a top 15 pick because of his workouts, not because of game film.

So his two sacks on Jake Long where he just destroyed Long really doesn't matter, I mean Jake long isn't very good right? Every one of his knocks have been posted in this thread about 10 times over. You can find negatives on any player out there. You act as if Gholston was some scrub who just went to the combine put up some good numbers and vaulted himself in the first round. If you didn't hear Gholstons name throughout the season then you either dont watch college football or dont listen to any talk radio. He isnt some flash in the pan.

He had a great game against Long. No doubt about it. What about the last two championship games? The Illinois game? Other games where he disappeared against unknown players?

melbar
04-24-2008, 10:10 AM
Well what? You can make an excuse for anything. I could say well he didn't dominate because he was just one piece of the best defense in the country last year. Rated either first or second in 11 defensive categories, he played with arguably the best LB and CB in the country. He played on a line that was very deep, and our defense was very good at stopping the run. Did you even watch the BCS, Gholston pressured Flynn all night and was double teamed all night as well. Like I previously stated Flynn did a heck of a job avoiding sacks and getting rid of the ball. So since Dorsey didn't dominate the BCS game either should we not pick him because he didn't have 20 tackles and 10 sacks like you think anyone buddy who is good on the line should get?

You were border line lame with half of the stuff you posted earlier in this thread, and now your just lame. We get the point you don't like Gholston and think he is very overrated, you said what you thought, and everyone knows what you think. So now if you could do us a favor and shut up about it, you would be a lot less annoying.

That first part reminds me of Sims. Benifiting from great players around him.

So what are you saying at the bottom? Sit down and STFU if you dont like Gholston, but those of you who have a hard on for him are free to speak?:shake:

DaKCMan AP
04-24-2008, 10:12 AM
That first part reminds me of Sims. Benifiting from great players around him.

So what are you saying at the bottom? Sit down and STFU if you dont like Gholston, but those of you who have a hard on for him are free to speak?:shake:

There isn't anyone within 100 light years of Julius Peppers' talent on the OSU dline playing with Gholston. LBs and CBs are extremely talented, but LBs and CBs benefit from stellar DL play much more than a DE/DT benefits from great LB or secondary play.

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 10:23 AM
Well what? You can make an excuse for anything. I could say well he didn't dominate because he was just one piece of the best defense in the country last year. Rated either first or second in 11 defensive categories, he played with arguably the best LB and CB in the country. He played on a line that was very deep, and our defense was very good at stopping the run. Did you even watch the BCS, Gholston pressured Flynn all night and was double teamed all night as well. Like I previously stated Flynn did a heck of a job avoiding sacks and getting rid of the ball. So since Dorsey didn't dominate the BCS game either should we not pick him because he didn't have 20 tackles and 10 sacks like you think anyone buddy who is good on the line should get?

You were border line lame with half of the stuff you posted earlier in this thread, and now your just lame. We get the point you don't like Gholston and think he is very overrated, you said what you thought, and everyone knows what you think. So now if you could do us a favor and shut up about it, you would be a lot less annoying.


Why are you so bitter at someone going against your beloved buckeye player? I am not afraid to admit when there is a MU Tiger that is good, but over-rated. Why can't O$U fans admit that.

So lame is stating raw facts, I guess it would have been better if it would have been put in proper context, right? or is lame just not thinking the same way you do regarding O$U football?

There isn't anyone within 100 light years of Julius Peppers' talent on the OSU dline playing with Gholston. LBs and CBs are extremely talented, but LBs and CBs benefit from stellar DL play much more than a DE/DT benefits from great LB or secondary play.

And that is what the Chiefs were trying to do with all of the drafting of the d-linemen in the last 3 - 4 years, they just were successful in executing thier plan successfully.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 10:37 AM
is Ghoulston really the next Merriman?

seems like after Merriman, everyone is searching for the next "Merriman" and guys who aren't as good have their value inflated..wasn't Merriman the #17-ish pick?

same with Adrien Peterson...because of him people are hot for McFadden when there is little reason or evidence to draft any RB that high...

I'd still much rather have Ellis than Ghoulston, if we aren't going to take Ryan....simply based on the value of their positions and wanting to finally shore up the middle of our defense

Gholston is a much better prospect than Merriman.

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 10:39 AM
That first part reminds me of Sims. Benifiting from great players around him.

So what are you saying at the bottom? Sit down and STFU if you dont like Gholston, but those of you who have a hard on for him are free to speak?:shake:

Uhhh NO! Im talking to bkkcoh, we have alread argued about many points over Gholston, he seems to want to bring up the same points over and over again and then wants me to reply like I have to defend myself. Your free to like or dislike whoever you want to, but after you made your point, is there anything for you to gain to continually argue over points that you already made? I could give a rats ass who likes Gholston and who doesn't to be honest, I just get tired of people who bring up the same point over and over and continue to beat the dead horse into the ground. Yes I realize no one is forcing me to read this garbage but it is very annoying from my point of view.

the Talking Can
04-24-2008, 10:39 AM
Gholston is a much better prospect than Merriman.

fine by me, if its true....

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 10:40 AM
Gholston is a much better prospect than Merriman.

Im thinking you want gholston at #5, who else would you rather have if we don't pick him

I like the potential he offers

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 10:40 AM
I want to know how Gholston's stock is elevated by those shitty teams he played against like Michigan and Wisconsin, where he had a combined 7 sacks.

Boy, those D-III programs really inflated his numbers.

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 10:41 AM
Why are you so bitter at someone going against your beloved buckeye player? I am not afraid to admit when there is a MU Tiger that is good, but over-rated. Why can't O$U fans admit that.

So lame is stating raw facts, I guess it would have been better if it would have been put in proper context, right? or is lame just not thinking the same way you do regarding O$U football?



And that is what the Chiefs were trying to do with all of the drafting of the d-linemen in the last 3 - 4 years, they just were successful in executing thier plan successfully.

You seriously are a joke, I think you posted one post that actually had stats in it. Once again I dont give a rats ass if you dont like Gholston. I would just appreciate if I didn't have to treat you like an ADD kid and give you attention everytime you post something new and then say WELL? Maybe I should write in crayon so you can follow with me better, would that be more benficial to you?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 10:42 AM
Im thinking you want gholston at #5, who else would you rather have if we don't pick him

I like the potential he offers

I took him at #1 in our CP mock draft. After that I'd go this way:

Dorsey
Ellis
C. Long
Ryan
Keith Rivers
Chris Williams
Shoot myself in the face
Ryan Clady
Branden Albert

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 10:43 AM
I want to know how Gholston's stock is elevated by those shitty teams he played against like Michigan and Wisconsin, where he had a combined 7 sacks.

Boy, those D-III programs really inflated his numbers.

LMAO.

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 10:43 AM
I took him at #1 in our CP mock draft. After that I'd go this way:

Dorsey
Ellis
C. Long
Ryan
Keith Rivers
Chris Williams
Shoot myself in the face
Ryan Clady
Branden Albert

ROFL 7th choice i wouldnt want clady and albert at 5 either

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 10:45 AM
That first part reminds me of Sims. Benifiting from great players around him.

So what are you saying at the bottom? Sit down and STFU if you dont like Gholston, but those of you who have a hard on for him are free to speak?:shake:

You know why you should STFU?? Because after being told multiple times that your take was bullshit, you still had the dumbassery to suggest that Gholston lacks a motor when his non-stop motor was right on any reputable scouting report you'd find about him.

If he was benefitting so much, why did LSU design their entire gameplan around stopping/neutralizing Gholston?

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 10:46 AM
You seriously are a joke, I think you posted one post that actually had stats in it. Once again I dont give a rats ass if you dont like Gholston. I would just appreciate if I didn't have to treat you like an ADD kid and give you attention everytime you post something new and then say WELL? Maybe I should write in crayon so you can follow with me better, would that be more benficial to you?

Seriously, why do you have to be so condescending in your tone? if I irritate you so much, just ignore me.

It ISN"T that I think Gholstson isn't a good player, IMHO, and it is just that, an opinion, he isn't worthy of a top 5 pick. I would love to see him go to Oakland and fail horribly. But that isn't because he is an O$U player, I want to see Oakland fail horribly.


I want to know how Gholston's stock is elevated by those shitty teams he played against like Michigan and Wisconsin, where he had a combined 7 sacks.

Boy, those D-III programs really inflated his numbers.

The only reason his stock has elevated is that his numbers were staggering and opened some eyes. How many players who have been known, but had a great workout at the combine or college's pro days, been a flop at the pro level.

He didn't play well enough against Youngstown State to have his numbers elevated.......

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 10:52 AM
The only reason his stock has elevated is that his numbers were staggering and opened some eyes. How many players who have been known, but had a great workout at the combine or college's pro days, been a flop at the pro level.

He didn't play well enough against Youngstown State to have his numbers elevated.......

I have officially seen it all. A prospects performance against the #1 overall pick and the Michigan Wolverines is less important than what numbers he put up against Youngstown State


YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS

http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/mcenroe_not_serious.jpg

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 10:52 AM
Im thinking you want gholston at #5, who else would you rather have if we don't pick him

I like the potential he offers


At #5, I think it would be a waste to draft on potential! With the state of the Chiefs, they can't really afford to do that.

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 10:53 AM
Seriously, why do you have to be so condescending in your tone? if I irritate you so much, just ignore me.

It ISN"T that I think Gholstson isn't a good player, IMHO, and it is just that, an opinion, he isn't worthy of a top 5 pick. I would love to see him go to Oakland and fail horribly. But that isn't because he is an O$U player, I want to see Oakland fail horribly.

Im not condescending, more or less irritated. I would ignore you but this is the first thread that you have annoyed me in, and likewise I probably have annoyed you. All Im saying is that once you make your point, that you think someone isn't any good, then you hear the rebuttal is there any reason to keep rehashing things you have already posted and been answered on? I understand people aren't going to agree 100% of the time online, it's a cultural boiling pot of opinions and personalities, thats what half the fun is. Sometimes you have to realize you are getting no further on a certain subject and just drop it which is what I have tried to do, yet my actions did not pay off, as I have posted yet again.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 11:02 AM
At #5, I think it would be a waste to draft on potential! With the state of the Chiefs, they can't really afford to do that.

What potential?

The guy had 14 sacks in a better conference than Chris Long, and he's a much better athlete.

This isn't like we are drafting Mike Mamula.

You can't just try and draft Tamba Hali every time and expect to build a championship team. When you are drafting early you need to draft difference makers, and that's something Gholston is and Long will never be.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 11:03 AM
I have officially seen it all. A prospects performance against the #1 overall pick and the Michigan Wolverines is less important than what numbers he put up against Youngstown State


YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS

http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/mcenroe_not_serious.jpg

Now THAT'S ****ing funny right there.

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 11:05 AM
Seriously, why do you have to be so condescending in your tone? if I irritate you so much, just ignore me.

It ISN"T that I think Gholstson isn't a good player, IMHO, and it is just that, an opinion, he isn't worthy of a top 5 pick. I would love to see him go to Oakland and fail horribly. But that isn't because he is an O$U player, I want to see Oakland fail horribly.




The only reason his stock has elevated is that his numbers were staggering and opened some eyes. How many players who have been known, but had a great workout at the combine or college's pro days, been a flop at the pro level.

He didn't play well enough against Youngstown State to have his numbers elevated.......

What a moot point.

Coogs
04-24-2008, 11:38 AM
You know why you should STFU?? Because after being told multiple times that your take was bullshit, you still had the dumbassery to suggest that Gholston lacks a motor when his non-stop motor was right on any reputable scouting report you'd find about him.

If he was benefitting so much, why did LSU design their entire gameplan around stopping/neutralizing Gholston?

I know I am going to regret posting this, but this is just his weaknesses from the NFLDraftCountdown site...

Weaknesses:
Needs to be more consistent...Questionable awareness and instincts...Undersized if he were to play defensive end...Does not have a lot of experience dropping into coverage...Has some work to do when it comes to technique...May have to learn a new position at the pro level...At times he gets by on his natural ability...Does not have an elite burst...Some durability issues...A better athlete than football player?

DaKCMan AP
04-24-2008, 11:44 AM
What potential?

The guy had 14 sacks in a better conference than Chris Long, and he's a much better athlete.

This isn't like we are drafting Mike Mamula.

You can't just try and draft Tamba Hali every time and expect to build a championship team. When you are drafting early you need to draft difference makers, and that's something Gholston is and Long will never be.

:spock:

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 11:51 AM
I know I am going to regret posting this, but this is just his weaknesses from the NFLDraftCountdown site...

Weaknesses:
Needs to be more consistent...Questionable awareness and instincts...Undersized if he were to play defensive end...Does not have a lot of experience dropping into coverage...Has some work to do when it comes to technique...May have to learn a new position at the pro level...At times he gets by on his natural ability...Does not have an elite burst...Some durability issues...A better athlete than football player?

You're regretting that you didn't post the whole thing. It looks pretty contradictory to me.

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 11:57 AM
You're regretting that you didn't post the whole thing. It looks pretty contradictory to me.

Good old Coogs wouldn't do that, would he? :)

Coogs
04-24-2008, 12:05 PM
You're regretting that you didn't post the whole thing. It looks pretty contradictory to me.

No that is not why I would regret posting something in a Gholston thread. The reason I would regret it is because I don't enjoy being cussed at because I have a different opinion. That is one thing about the Planet that I do not like.

And yes it is contradictory. Nearly every single writeup on every single player is that way.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 12:08 PM
No that is not why I would regret posting something in a Gholston thread. The reason I would regret it is because I don't enjoy being cussed at because I have a different opinion. That is one thing about the Planet that I do not like.

And yes it is contradictory. Nearly every single writeup on every single player is that way.

Exactly.

So just pointing out the negatives is a bit disingenuous, isn't it?

I have no problem with your opinion, you're definitely entitled to it.

But me and the majority of the free world don't agree with it.

And, as Herm would say, at the end of the day, it's OK.

:D

Chiefnj2
04-24-2008, 12:10 PM
newerascouting questions his consistency:

Additional Comments: Visually, there isn’t a doubt that Gholston is the most impressive player in the draft. He’s built incredibly strong and is a fast, pass rushing force. Dig a little deeper, though, and you find a player who is somewhat one-dimensional. During his final season, Gholston only registered 15.5 tackles for a loss with eight coming in two games (Wisconsin, Michigan). Gholston needs to become more consistent. He’ll struggle against the run and doesn’t always pursue when the play is far away. He’s shown the ability to be either a 4-3 end or a 3-4 rush linebacker. He’s fast off the snap and agile. He’s also shown the ability to drop back in coverage, but it shouldn’t be considered too much of an asset.

Chiefnj2
04-24-2008, 12:16 PM
The Sporting News' breakdown of Gholston when the college season ended and before workouts:

War Room analysis
Against the run: Shows flashes of being a solid run stuffer, but is inconsistent and gets swallowed up by big blockers. Struggles to maintain leverage on the corner; seems to only want to rush upfield. Takes plays off. Must get stronger. Grade: 6.0

Pass rush: Has NFL speed. Gets upfield in a hurry to disrupt the pocket. Shows a variety of pass-rush moves that rely on agility, but will not be able to bull rush many NFL linemen. Grade: 8.0

Initial quickness: When focused, shows explosive quickness off the snap; is inconsistent, though. When opponents run at him play after play, seems to slow down by the fourth quarter. After initial move, tends to go half-speed. Grade: 7.5

Run/pass recognition: Seems locked in on pass rush, and is slow to react to runs. Rarely moves well laterally to chase plays, laboring down the line unless ballcarrier comes back to him. Even when keying on the run, struggles to help much and will blow containment assignments. Grade: 6.0

Pursuit/tackling: Is biggest area of concern. Is slow in pursuit, and does not hustle to the opposite sideline. When focused, was a dominant college player; however, he often disappeared in games. Is a good tackler when playing hard, but is inconsistent. Grade: 6.0

Bottom line: Gholston could fit in a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme and has the size and speed to be productive at defensive end, defensive tackle or rush linebacker. A dynamic athlete, Gholston can dominate some games and disappear totally in others. Many NFL teams will be wary of his inconsistent effort and focus. He is sure to wow GMs and coaches in pre-draft workouts, so some team surely will draft him much higher than his on-field production warrants. Gholston should be used only as a pass-rush specialist for a year or two as he develops

Coogs
04-24-2008, 12:25 PM
Exactly.

So just pointing out the negatives is a bit disingenuous, isn't it?

I have no problem with your opinion, you're definitely entitled to it.

But me and the majority of the free world don't agree with it.

And, as Herm would say, at the end of the day, it's OK.

:D

He only asked for something pointing out he took plays off... or something along those lines, I'm not going to look it up again.

And I really don't care that I go out on a limb by myself or a with a limited few. I just don't appreciate being refered to as a "dumbass" or something along those lines for having my own opinion.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 12:27 PM
So, which player will The Sporting News select to go in the first round this year who won't even be drafted?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 12:29 PM
He only asked for something pointing out he took plays off... or something along those lines, I'm not going to look it up again.

And I really don't care that I go out on a limb by myself or a with a limited few. I just don't appreciate being refered to as a "dumbass" or something along those lines for having my own opinion.

A dumbass is someone who says that Gholston lacks a motor when it's considered one of his greatest strengths and the same friggin' argument has been made 10 times on here in the last two days.

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 12:34 PM
What potential?

The guy had 14 sacks in a better conference than Chris Long, and he's a much better athlete.

This isn't like we are drafting Mike Mamula.

You can't just try and draft Tamba Hali every time and expect to build a championship team. When you are drafting early you need to draft difference makers, and that's something Gholston is and Long will never be.

Im thinking you want gholston at #5, who else would you rather have if we don't pick him

I like the potential he offers


The potential was what Sure-Oz's comments, not mine.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 12:36 PM
And any scouting report that says Vernon Gholston could play D-Tackle should be burned and then pissed on.

Coogs
04-24-2008, 12:36 PM
A dumbass is someone who says that Gholston lacks a motor when it's considered one of his greatest strengths and the same friggin' argument has been made 10 times on here in the last two days.

As I was saying.

I made a point yesterday that some of the talking heads on TV said if you watch the tape of Gholston... he disappears. And for taking their word for it, I was tossed into the dumbass group.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 12:37 PM
Chris Long is the safe pick; Gholston is the kind of guy you build an entire defense around.

I'm not surprised that most people on here want to go with the safe, low-risk prospect.

Chiefnj2
04-24-2008, 12:39 PM
A dumbass is someone who says that Gholston lacks a motor when it's considered one of his greatest strengths and the same friggin' argument has been made 10 times on here in the last two days.

You were provided the multiple sources that you said didn't exist. It's time to STFU and STFD.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 12:40 PM
As I was saying.

I made a point yesterday that some of the talking heads on TV said if you watch the tape of Gholston... he disappears. And for taking their word for it, I was tossed into the dumbass group.

You gotta consider your sources. Merril Hoge shouldn't be trusted to start an electric weed-eater, let alone give draft advice.

It's the same thing with TSN. When your source says that a guy who is 265 could play DT, they need to have their head examined.

It's like trusting Athan for draft advice (completely homer-filled mock), or Adam Teicher. Look at that mock Teicher made today. If that doesn't speak to a complete lack of understanding of what the purpose of the draft is, I don't know what does.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 12:40 PM
As I was saying.

I made a point yesterday that some of the talking heads on TV said if you watch the tape of Gholston... he disappears. And for taking their word for it, I was tossed into the dumbass group.

Not saying it's right, but probably because you formed your opinion on what some TV talking head said, instead of forming your own opinion.

Regardless, your good by me. Opinions is what makes this place go.

suds79
04-24-2008, 12:40 PM
Chris Long is the safe pick; Gholston is the kind of guy you build an entire defense around.

I'm not surprised that most people on here want to go with the safe, low-risk prospect.

Is it possible that most people want to go for Chris Long because they feel he's simply better? Just curious.

That seems to be the word from a lot of analysis. Now before I get the "those draft experts don't know sh!t" common blast, I will say that I would take their word over any BB poster.

It mean it is their job to research this stuff 24 - 7.

Coogs
04-24-2008, 12:42 PM
Not saying it's right, but probably because you formed your opinion on what some TV talking head said, instead of forming your own opinion.

I don't have any tape to form my own opinion on. I watch a lot of college football too. But Ohio State is not one of the teams I enjoy watching, so I usually watch another game instead. And I am cool with you OTW58. :toast:

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 12:42 PM
You were provided the multiple sources that you said didn't exist. It's time to STFU and STFD.

Look, you ignorant c*nt. If you want to put your stock in a scouting report that says that Gholston could play D-Tackle, well I suggest you might as well have unprotected sex with a bisexual heroin-addicted Botswanan prostitute.


Scott Wright >> Direckshun>>> Mel Kiper >>> A drooling retard >>>> The Sporting News.

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 12:43 PM
Chris Long is the safe pick; Gholston is the kind of guy you build an entire defense around.

I'm not surprised that most people on here want to go with the safe, low-risk prospect.

Chris Long seems to be more of a finished product and ready to go where as gholston is a freak and could get tons better, or regress....if its up to me i would rather go with gholston first

JBucc
04-24-2008, 12:44 PM
I think Gholston would be great as a 3-4 pass rusher where he could bull rush the QB, run downhill. But I haven't seen many moves from him to think he'll be a great 4-3 DE. When I watch him he's very stiff and just relies completely on his speed to run by someone, no spins, no rips or sidesteps. Doesn't use his hands very well. He's not a Dwight Freeney or Osi Umenyiora type player with a good set of moves to get by someone to go along with speed.

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 12:44 PM
I don't have any tape to form my own opinion on. I watch a lot of college football to. But Ohio State is not one of the teams I enjoy watching, so I usually watch another game instead. And I am cool with you OTW58. :toast:

Being in the Columbus area, O$U was on the tube every game (have Direct TV) and Gholston did hide at times in games....

Is it possible that most people want to go for Chris Long because they feel he's simply better? Just curious.

That seems to be the word from a lot of analysis. Now before I get the "those draft experts don't know sh!t" common blast, I will say that I would take their word over any BB poster.

It mean it is their job to research this stuff 24 - 7.

Exactly, and most of the time they are former players.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 12:45 PM
I don't have any tape to form my own opinion on. I watch a lot of college football to. But Ohio State is not one of the teams I enjoy watching, so I usually watch another game instead. And I am cool with you OTW58. :toast:

This guy looks pretty crappy in pursuit to me. And it looks like he sucks against the run:

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'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 12:48 PM
I think Gholston would be great as a 3-4 pass rusher where he could bull rush the QB, run downhill. But I haven't seen many moves from him to think he'll be a great 4-3 DE. When I watch him he's very stiff and just relies completely on his speed to run by someone, no spins, no rips or sidesteps. Doesn't use his hands very well. He's not a Dwight Freeney or Osi Umenyiora type player with a good set of moves to get by someone to go along with speed.

Do you think that Osi Umenyiora came out of Troy with a complete arsenal of pass-rushing moves??

Gholston also has freakish strength, he's not just an around the edge rusher.

There is not one single player in this draft who is a complete product. At some point you have to trust your own coaches to develop a player and maximize his abilities. It doesn't matter whether it's a QB, WR, or DE.

If I gave you someone with the athletic tools of Gholston or Chris Long and you were a D-Line coach, you'd have to think that most of them would salivate to get the attempt to develop an athletic talent like Gholston.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 12:50 PM
Being in the Columbus area, O$U was on the tube every game (have Direct TV) and Gholston did hide at times in games....

Well what do you know.

So did Jared Allen, yet everyone thinks he's the greatest ****ing player to ever wear a pair of cleats.

I'd be willing to bet that if you had tape of each of Chris Long's games, there would be some that he was gameplanned for and didn't have a great game, or just flat out had a down game.

It happens.

Some of you guys are acting like he's a lazy ass Ryan Sims type.

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 12:53 PM
....

There is not one single player in this draft who is a complete product. At some point you have to trust your own coaches to develop a player and maximize his abilities. It doesn't matter whether it's a QB, WR, or DE.

...


And with the Chief's braintrust, we should be able to trust them. Granted with the exception of the drafting of the kicker last year, the last 2 years have been a little better results then previous years. :toast:

Not sure as to if it is Herm's influence or what, but for some reason, overall the drafting has been getting better.

Chiefnj2
04-24-2008, 12:54 PM
ESPN insider:
"It can get frustrating studying Gholston on film because he's inconsistent. There are times when he is flat-out dominant and there are other times that he will disappear."

Dan Pompei:
"The only problem with Gholston is inconsistency, and for that reason he is a risky pick."

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 12:54 PM
Well what do you know.

So did Jared Allen, yet everyone thinks he's the greatest ****ing player to ever wear a pair of cleats.

I'd be willing to bet that if you had tape of each of Chris Long's games, there would be some that he was gameplanned for and didn't have a great game, or just flat out had a down game.

It happens.

Some of you guys are acting like he's a lazy ass Ryan Sims type.

IMHO and that is all it is. GEESH

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 12:56 PM
And with the Chief's braintrust, we should be able to trust them. Granted with the exception of the drafting of the kicker last year, the last 2 years have been a little better results then previous years. :toast:

Not sure as to if it is Herm's influence or what, but for some reason, overall the drafting has been getting better.

Yeah, but before we start sucking each other's dicks we should always remember that >Bad does not = Good.

Coogs
04-24-2008, 12:56 PM
ESPN insider:
"It can get frustrating studying Gholston on film because he's inconsistent. There are times when he is flat-out dominant and there are other times that he will disappear."

Dan Pompei:
"The only problem with Gholston is inconsistency, and for that reason he is a risky pick."


Brace yourself! ;)

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 12:59 PM
Brace yourself! ;)

No doubt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:


Yeah, but before we start sucking each other's dicks we should always remember that >Bad does not = Good.


Agreed :toast:

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 01:00 PM
ESPN insider:
"It can get frustrating studying Gholston on film because he's inconsistent. There are times when he is flat-out dominant and there are other times that he will disappear."

Dan Pompei:
"The only problem with Gholston is inconsistency, and for that reason he is a risky pick."

Inconsistency does not = laziness. Hate to break it to you, but even Bruce Smith had stretches of games where he wasn't heard from, and so did Derrick Thomas.

Before Gholston played football, he wanted to be a professional bodybuilder (I know, shocker). I think that says a lot about the guy. Juice or not, bodybuilding is an activity that requires a ridiculous amount of work ethic and dedication. He's not some guy who was just born a football player--he's a very hard worker and the scouts back that up. If you have a guy that is a genetic freak and a hard worker, you have dynamite on your hands.

I just want to know why a guy who had 0 sacks in the 4th quarter and no sacks in over 1/3 of his games is all of a sudden a gold standard.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 01:01 PM
IMHO and that is all it is. GEESH


I'm not knocking you, per se.

I'm making a point. People are looking to nitpick the **** out of these guys. They are Top 5 picks for a reason, yet some of these draft monkeys make it out like he's undraftable.

Jared Allen, though no one has the stones to admit it, disappeared in the 3rd/4th quarter of games.

Dwight Freeney gets a huge payday, and his production falls off.

It happens to so-called "elite" players that have been in the NFL for years, yet this kid is getting crucified over it?

Not to mention, you've got scouts/writers saying that his motor is his biggest asset, and others saying it's his biggest weakness.

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 01:02 PM
I'm not knocking you, per se.

I'm making a point. People are looking to nitpick the **** out of these guys. They are Top 5 picks for a reason, yet some of these draft monkeys make it out like he's undraftable.

Jared Allen, though no one has the stones to admit it, disappeared in the 3rd/4th quarter of games.

Dwight Freeney gets a huge payday, and his production falls off.

It happens to so-called "elite" players that have been in the NFL for years, yet this kid is getting crucified over it?

Not to mention, you've got scouts/writers saying that his motor is his biggest asset, and others saying it's his biggest weakness.

Allen had zero sacks in the 4th qtr last year, that struck me as a "wtf?"

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 01:06 PM
Allen had zero sacks in the 4th qtr last year, that struck me as a "wtf?"

And if memory serves correct, he only had either 1.5 or 2.5 in the third quarter.

Most of our games were close going into the 4th, so the "well, teams just ran on us" argument goes right out the window.

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 01:07 PM
I'm not knocking you, per se.

I'm making a point. People are looking to nitpick the **** out of these guys. They are Top 5 picks for a reason, yet some of these draft monkeys make it out like he's undraftable.

Jared Allen, though no one has the stones to admit it, disappeared in the 3rd/4th quarter of games.

Dwight Freeney gets a huge payday, and his production falls off.

It happens to so-called "elite" players that have been in the NFL for years, yet this kid is getting crucified over it?

Not to mention, you've got scouts/writers saying that his motor is his biggest asset, and others saying it's his biggest weakness.

QFT. bkkcoh, seems as if Im not the only one who doesn't agree with you eh?

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 01:08 PM
And if memory serves correct, he only had either 1.5 or 2.5 in the third quarter.

Most of our games were close going into the 4th, so the "well, teams just ran on us" argument goes right out the window.

sounds right...if i recall counting sacks from him last year in the 1st half just off the top of my head i thought he had around 9 or 10

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 01:08 PM
QFT. bkkcoh, seems as if Im not the only one who doesn't agree with you eh?


All I am saying is that I don't think he is worthy of a top 10 pick. It almost seems as if there are more people that agree with my stance then yours. But that isn't the point. Is it?????

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 01:09 PM
All I am saying is that I don't think he is worthy of a top 10 pick. It almost seems as if there are more people that agree with my stance then yours. But that isn't the point. Is it?????

Gholston won't get out of the top 10, even if we pass him...if NE covets him at 7 that has to say something

keg in kc
04-24-2008, 01:10 PM
Weekly World News has a story breaking on the 2000-year old paternity suit between Mary and Joseph. Apparently modern DNA study reveals Gholston as the father.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 01:11 PM
All I am saying is that I don't think he is worthy of a top 10 pick. It almost seems as if there are more people that agree with my stance then yours. But that isn't the point. Is it?????

HUH?

I've yet to see ANYTHING that suggests Gholston isn't a Top 10 pick.

I haven't seen any legit sites mock have him go any later than 7 to NE.

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 01:11 PM
Gholston won't get out of the top 10, even if we pass him...if NE covets him at 7 that has to say something


But as stated in another Gholston thread, he isn't a good fit for the Chief's defense unless we go to a 3 -4 type of defense, I don't think we can take a chance on another undersized DE like Hali.

HUH?

I've yet to see ANYTHING that suggests Gholston isn't a Top 10 pick.

I haven't seen any legit sites mock have him go any later than 7 to NE.

NE is in a totally different position then the Chiefs, if the Chiefs were solid and didn't have any glaring holes, I would understand taking a chance on Gholston, but not in the position the Chief's are in.

Gholston may end up as a multi-time all-pro. But so did a lot of other teams that have passed up on players like Brady, Montana and such. Drafting and scouting isn't an exact science at all.

Coogs
04-24-2008, 01:11 PM
Not to mention, you've got scouts/writers saying that his motor is his biggest asset, and others saying it's his biggest weakness.
Which means it is probably somewhere in the middle? :shrug:

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 01:14 PM
Which means it is probably somewhere in the middle? :shrug:

Agree.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 01:16 PM
But as stated in another Gholston thread, he isn't a good fit for the Chief's defense unless we go to a 3 -4 type of defense, I don't think we can take a chance on another undersized DE like Hali.

He's the same size as Jared Allen.

Allen slimmed down to around 265 last year. Gholston's combine weight was 266.

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 01:22 PM
He's the same size as Jared Allen.

Allen slimmed down to around 265 last year. Gholston's combine weight was 266.

Right....i think the height is 3" shorter for gholston but the dude is built like a freakin diesel

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 01:46 PM
He's the same size as Jared Allen.

Allen slimmed down to around 265 last year. Gholston's combine weight was 266.

There is more to fitting into a system then size.

Are you saying that the players are identical?

Brock
04-24-2008, 01:47 PM
There is more to fitting into a system then size.

Are you saying that the players are identical?

I'm not. Gholston is stronger and faster.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 01:51 PM
I'm not. Gholston is stronger and faster.

Exactly.

Jared Allen didn't fit the profile of a NFL DE in a 4-3 scheme either.

Christ, he was drafted as a long snapper.

If Gholston doesn't fit a 4-3 scheme, then why are the Rams and Raiders hot and heavy over him?

DaKCMan AP
04-24-2008, 01:54 PM
Exactly.

Jared Allen didn't fit the profile of a NFL DE in a 4-3 scheme either.

Christ, he was drafted as a long snapper.

If Gholston doesn't fit a 4-3 scheme, then why are the Rams and Raiders hot and heavy over him?

The Rams are in heat over the best player in the draft, Glenn Dorsey, and no one has any clue as to who the Raiders want.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 02:01 PM
The Rams are in heat over the best player in the draft, Glenn Dorsey, and no one has any clue as to who the Raiders want.

The Rams have been split, according to reports here. Haslett wants Dorsey, while the football operations/scouting department wants Long. Gholston's been mentioned as Linehan's pick.

I've heard several times that the Raiders will take Gholston over McFadden.

DaKCMan AP
04-24-2008, 02:03 PM
The Rams have been split, according to reports here. Haslett wants Dorsey, while the football operations/scouting department wants Long. Gholston's been mentioned as Linehan's pick.

I've heard several times that the Raiders will take Gholston over McFadden.

I wouldn't be upset if St. Louis grabbed Gholston.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 02:04 PM
Threads like this just get me progressively more pissed as the week goes on.

All the guys in here bashing Gholston were pretty much nowhere to be found on Draft Planet, then they mysteriously show up 4 days from the draft, read one scouting report from a hackneyed source, and suddenly they know he's not a fit for a 4-3.

Yet, were they actually to think outside of the LD room for a second, they'd see that Gholston is stronger and faster than Allen, has the same size as Freeney, and is stronger, is a protocockf*ckingtypical size for a Cover 2 DE.

I'm growing weary of playing the role of 'tard wrangler.

OnTheWarpath58
04-24-2008, 02:05 PM
Threads like this just get me progressively more pissed as the week goes on.

All the guys in here bashing Gholston were pretty much nowhere to be found on Draft Planet, then they mysteriously show up 4 days from the draft, read one scouting report from a hackneyed source, and suddenly they know he's not a fit for a 4-3.

Yet, were they actually to think outside of the LD room for a second, they'd see that Gholston is stronger and faster than Allen, has the same size as Freeney, and is stronger, is a protocockf*ckingtypical size for a Cover 2 DE.

I'm growing weary of playing the role of 'tard wrangler.

Like the new av.

Has motor, but lacks a motor.

LOL

DaKCMan AP
04-24-2008, 02:06 PM
Threads like this just get me progressively more pissed as the week goes on.

All the guys in here bashing Gholston were pretty much nowhere to be found on Draft Planet, then they mysteriously show up 4 days from the draft, read one scouting report from a hackneyed source, and suddenly they know he's not a fit for a 4-3.

Yet, were they actually to think outside of the LD room for a second, they'd see that Gholston is stronger and faster than Allen, has the same size as Freeney, and is stronger, is a protocockf*ckingtypical size for a Cover 2 DE.

I'm growing weary of playing the role of 'tard wrangler.


Don't bother telling them that he's 2" taller and the same weight as Dwight Freeney out of college. A little slower, but a lot stronger.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 02:08 PM
Like the new av.

Has motor, but lacks a motor.

LOL

It just goes to show how accurate those reports were a few years back that said most of our population is functionally illiterate.

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 02:13 PM
All I am saying is that I don't think he is worthy of a top 10 pick. It almost seems as if there are more people that agree with my stance then yours. But that isn't the point. Is it?????

What have you been smoking? Some on here think he might not warrant a five for our team, but I havent seen anyone say he wasn't a top 10 pick (besides yourself :rolleyes:). But that isn't the point. Is it?????

El Jefe
04-24-2008, 02:14 PM
Threads like this just get me progressively more pissed as the week goes on.

All the guys in here bashing Gholston were pretty much nowhere to be found on Draft Planet, then they mysteriously show up 4 days from the draft, read one scouting report from a hackneyed source, and suddenly they know he's not a fit for a 4-3.

Yet, were they actually to think outside of the LD room for a second, they'd see that Gholston is stronger and faster than Allen, has the same size as Freeney, and is stronger, is a protocockf*ckingtypical size for a Cover 2 DE.

I'm growing weary of playing the role of 'tard wrangler.


QFT brother.

bkkcoh
04-24-2008, 03:00 PM
What have you been smoking? Some on here think he might not warrant a five for our team, but I havent seen anyone say he wasn't a top 10 pick (besides yourself :rolleyes:). But that isn't the point. Is it?????


If there wasn't a team that was predominately a 3 - 4 defense picking in the top 10, then, IMHO he isn't worthy of a top 10 pick.

SBK
04-24-2008, 03:19 PM
I never figured KC would have a shot at Gholston because I was sure Parcells would take him at #1.

Now that he's not gone at #1 I'm really hoping he's there at 5. The only guy I would want more is Dorsey, but I don't see him falling at all.

Chiefmanwillcatch
04-24-2008, 03:47 PM
HERM WANTS D-END THAT WILL STOP RUN.

JA wasn't resigned probably because HERM didn't really care for him.

CHRIS LONG!

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 03:51 PM
HERM WANTS D-END THAT WILL STOP RUN.

JA wasn't resigned probably because HERM didn't really care for him.

CHRIS LONG!

God knows, when the Phoenix Suns traded for Shaq, they did it for his three point shooting ability.

Chiefmanwillcatch
04-24-2008, 04:05 PM
God knows, when the Phoenix Suns traded for Shaq, they did it for his three point shooting ability.

Stopping the run is key in his schemes.

melbar
04-24-2008, 07:26 PM
Uhhh NO! Im talking to bkkcoh, we have alread argued about many points over Gholston, he seems to want to bring up the same points over and over again and then wants me to reply like I have to defend myself. Your free to like or dislike whoever you want to, but after you made your point, is there anything for you to gain to continually argue over points that you already made? I could give a rats ass who likes Gholston and who doesn't to be honest, I just get tired of people who bring up the same point over and over and continue to beat the dead horse into the ground. Yes I realize no one is forcing me to read this garbage but it is very annoying from my point of view.

FAir enough. I'm a little sensitive on this subject because I'm personally tired of being cursed at or called an idiot because I dont agree with someone about a particular player. Lets have a discussion thats why we're here.

Basileus777
04-24-2008, 07:31 PM
Gholston has the size to play in the 4-3, thats not really an issue. He wasn't the greatest against the run in college, but it wasn't because of his size, he just didn't play the run exceptionally well. I wouldn't really call it a weakness though, he's just inconsistent. He should be able to improve on this. It'd be a bigger concern if we were drafting him to play linebacker.

The question about Gholston is his effort and consistency, his physical tools are out out this world. But you can bring up the same questions of consistency about nearly all defensive line prospects. If everyone talented DE destroyed all the lesser OTs they played in college they would all be racking up 30 sacks a year. In general, trench players have a tendency to take plays off. Chris Long is about the only prospect in recent memory that was highly rated that people didn't feel that way about.

I'd rather have Long, but if we draft Gholston I'd be thrilled.

melbar
04-24-2008, 07:36 PM
I have officially seen it all. A prospects performance against the #1 overall pick and the Michigan Wolverines is less important than what numbers he put up against Youngstown State


YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS

http://www.affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/mcenroe_not_serious.jpg

Seriously, if you cant see the validity of a guy having a good game against a great player and then sucking against players who will be lucky to be drafted and why that is cause for concern, what else can be said?

Chiefnj2
09-28-2009, 03:07 PM
Before the Sanchez love-fest, it was Gholston. Who will it be in the 2010 draft??

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-28-2009, 03:15 PM
Before the Sanchez love-fest, it was Gholston. Who will it be in the 2010 draft??

Eric Berry.

Deberg_1990
09-28-2009, 03:17 PM
Someone should bump the threads where people were trashing Matt Ryan. ROFL

Gonzo
09-28-2009, 03:18 PM
Before the Sanchez love-fest, it was Gholston. Who will it be in the 2010 draft??

3rd one down...


http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/faq.php?faq=bannable#faq_ban_thread_spam

ChiefsCountry
09-28-2009, 03:19 PM
Someone should bump the threads where people were trashing Matt Ryan. ROFL

Please don't, I didn't like Matt Ryan at all at BC, and he made me eat alot of crow. It was a great decision by Atlanta for sure. :clap:

Brock
09-28-2009, 03:22 PM
You'll certainly have the usual "Spend every draft pick on the best offensive lineman available" crowd.

El Jefe
09-28-2009, 03:31 PM
Eric Berry.

THIS. I like Berry a lot too, and I would love to have him as a Chief.

Frazod
09-28-2009, 03:32 PM
I suppose it's too late to go back in time and keep Allen, isn't it?

:deevee:

sedated
09-28-2009, 04:11 PM
I suppose it's too late to go back in time and keep Allen, isn't it?

:deevee:

speaking of bumping old threads, someone should bump the ones trashing Allen as soon as he got dealt.

IIRC, the overwhelming attitude was that he was over-rated and doomed for a year-long suspension.

HemiEd
09-28-2009, 04:15 PM
There were at least two of us pissed about the trade. Rainman, and myself included.

It would be fine for those threads to be bumped.

Frazod
09-28-2009, 04:23 PM
I was happy as hell when we got Dorsey. But since he seems to be the Ryan Leaf of defensive linemen, now I'm just a little unhappy. :grr:

Valiant
09-28-2009, 04:32 PM
speaking of bumping old threads, someone should bump the ones trashing Allen as soon as he got dealt.

IIRC, the overwhelming attitude was that he was over-rated and doomed for a year-long suspension.

I don't think anyone said he was overated, If anything that he had better perform better with that Dline in Minnesota.. Hell the guy went drinking all the time here, he needed new scenery to calm down or was told that the local government would have his back if he did fuck up..

googlegoogle
09-28-2009, 05:26 PM
Gholston is a bust according to this article.

http://www.newsday.com/columnists/bob-glauber/just-showing-up-not-enough-for-gholston-1.1421026

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-28-2009, 05:52 PM
Actually, Gholston is improving with every game, and Rex Ryan is really pleased with his progress.

He's playing as a two-gap down lineman, LOLB, and ILB.

There are some pretty good posts by really knowledgeable football guys on jetnation (D2112's board) that spell out his growth and development.

MoreLemonPledge
09-28-2009, 06:03 PM
Hindsight is hilarious.