PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Jared Allen is a Viking


Pages : 1 [2]

xbarretx
04-22-2008, 11:03 PM
Like the guy said to me, you'll never convince some people no matter how many points you are right on.

Jared Allen was their drinking buddy player they related to and that's that.

given that Mec, whos your new picks for 5 and 17?

Thig Lyfe
04-22-2008, 11:03 PM
This sucks.

I mean, yeah, stockpiling picks is a good way to build a team, and they weren't about to win anything anyway, but...

Jared Allen was the single most exciting player on this team last year. Oftentimes he was the only bright spot in otherwise dark and depressing games. Now he's wearing another uniform.

Carl just can't seem to keep his best players long enough to win anything. It's a miracle Tony G has stayed on for as long as he has, and at this point, you gotta feel guilty for wanting him to hang on with such an incompetent team.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:04 PM
given that Mec, whos your new picks for 5 and 17?

Sedrick Ellis and Chris Williams. I know you didn't ask me, but too bad. :p

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:05 PM
This sucks.

I mean, yeah, stockpiling picks is a good way to build a team, and they weren't about to win anything anyway, but...

Jared Allen was the single most exciting player on this team last year. Oftentimes he was the only bright spot in otherwise dark and depressing games. Now he's wearing another uniform.

Carl just can't seem to keep his best players long enough to win anything. It's a miracle Tony G has stayed on for as long as he has, and at this point, you gotta feel guilty for wanting him to hang on with such an incompetent team.

It was stupid for Allen to get the kind of money he did with the risk he poses. He's gettin hammered as we speak. Bank on it.

Mizzou_8541
04-22-2008, 11:05 PM
So does this mean the planet will have to change the picture of JA sacking a QB?

xbarretx
04-22-2008, 11:05 PM
Sedrick Ellis and Chris Williams. I know you didn't ask me, but too bad. :p

its ok, thats a good answer Flop.. so no need to worry about it :) :hail:

Mecca
04-22-2008, 11:06 PM
given that Mec, whos your new picks for 5 and 17?

Depends whos there.....

Give me who you think the top 4 picks are and I'll give you who I'd take.

BigRock
04-22-2008, 11:06 PM
We're swapping sixth rounders too.
CARL, YOU SACK OF SHIT

OnTheWarpath58
04-22-2008, 11:06 PM
CARL, YOU SACK OF SHIT

ROFL

BigRedChief
04-22-2008, 11:07 PM
The Vikings two 3rds on the draft value chart = the 2 round pick at the #17 slot almost exactly. So the bottom line is that King Carl got a mid round 1st and a 2nd for Allen. Thats pretty good for someone that said publically would not play for you anymore.

And the Vikes supposely gave JA freeny type money. $30 million gauranteed.

Smed1065
04-22-2008, 11:07 PM
Why is the search function not working?

I tried to use it for month now. :cuss:





:D

Basileus777
04-22-2008, 11:08 PM
He got 31 mil guaranteed (74 total), more than Freeney. He's now the "highest-paid defensive player in the NFL." Considering that price, we got excellent value for him. Great trade.

wazu
04-22-2008, 11:08 PM
I do have to say, as opposed as I was to this when it broke, I'm quite happy now. In effect we got 3 first day draft picks for a guy that was not only a major suspension risk, but made it quite clear to the Chiefs he wasn't going to resign. EVER.

That is such B.S. What's he gonna do? Retire at 26? We could franchise him forever.

noa
04-22-2008, 11:10 PM
That is such B.S. What's he gonna do? Retire at 26? We could franchise him forever.

That would be a terrible decision. We'd be spending out the wazoo. That's why long term contracts are better than just franchising your best player every year.

Ari Chi3fs
04-22-2008, 11:10 PM
Whoever the Chiefs pick at 5 and 17 will assuredly be busts.

Wreckloose
04-22-2008, 11:11 PM
1st and 2 thirds, swap sixths.

Mecca
04-22-2008, 11:12 PM
You guys are funny, he isn't worth that much money with no off the field issues be happy.

wazu
04-22-2008, 11:13 PM
That would be a terrible decision. We'd be spending out the wazoo. That's why long term contracts are better than just franchising your best player every year.

It wouldn't come to that long term. It's just leverage that the Chiefs had to get him signed.

noa
04-22-2008, 11:13 PM
What are the 6th round picks in actual numbers?

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:13 PM
That is such B.S. What's he gonna do? Retire at 26? We could franchise him forever.

The way the franchise tag works we would increase his top 5 salary by 20% every year. It's really not feasable to do it more than 2 years. If he doesn't sign, we can't keep franchising him. I really didn't want to trade him, but since it became apparent it was unavoidable, I think we got a phenominal return on it.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:13 PM
I would've liked to see Bryant McKinnie added to that though.

noa
04-22-2008, 11:14 PM
I wonder if we are swapping the 6th we got from the Bucs

xbarretx
04-22-2008, 11:14 PM
Depends whos there.....

Give me who you think the top 4 picks are and I'll give you who I'd take.

Long, Ryan, Dorsey, Mcfadden? who knows.. im still surprised that Miami is going with J Long....

The Bad Guy
04-22-2008, 11:14 PM
This is a great, great deal.

OnTheWarpath58
04-22-2008, 11:15 PM
That is such B.S. What's he gonna do? Retire at 26? We could franchise him forever.

Sure, if you're willing to increase his pay every year by 20%, which is what the league requires you to do when you franchise the same player in consecutive years.


EDIT: Sorry Flopnuts.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:15 PM
You guys are funny, he isn't worth that much money with no off the field issues be happy.

I agree. Minnesota is risking everything on him. They pretty much have no draft this year now, and just committed 30 million to a guy that has the mentality of a teenager. This could easily blow up in their faces. IMO they're taking much more risk than we are.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:16 PM
Mecca, draft goes like this:

J. Long
C. Long
Dorsey
McFadden

Who do you take?


How about:

J. Long
Gholston
Dorsey
C. Long

Mecca
04-22-2008, 11:16 PM
Long, Ryan, Dorsey, Mcfadden? who knows.. im still surprised that Miami is going with J Long....

Gholston is my top player in that scenario, everyone always wants another DT, this guy has that kind of ability.

bowener
04-22-2008, 11:16 PM
damn! Im away cooking some 3 cheese manicotti for my girl and come back to this rad ass news!! This is a major step for the chiefs. I hope they dont **** it up.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:16 PM
Sure, if you're willing to increase his pay every year by 20%, which is what the league requires you to do when you franchise the same player in consecutive years.


EDIT: Sorry Flopnuts.

I knew you'd notice it too. :D

DenverDanChiefsFan
04-22-2008, 11:17 PM
I believe he was in his prime (1991) of course I'm too lazy to look it upWalker - drafted in 1989 by Dallas - traded to Minny during the season in 1989 - guess he wasn't really that young (???)

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:18 PM
Gholston is my top player in that scenario, everyone always wants another DT, this guy has that kind of ability.

You'd take Gholston over C. Long? I think you're nuts. To each his own though.

xbarretx
04-22-2008, 11:19 PM
Gholston is my top player in that scenario, everyone always wants another DT, this guy has that kind of ability.

:hmmm: to be honest, as long as you didnt say Clady... im happy ..yes im terrible :P

thanks Mec .. CANT WAIT TILL SAT!!!!!!!!!

i wish my buds were into football like i am.... ill be having a draft party.....with my myself and i LMAO .. oh wait :sulk: ;)

wazu
04-22-2008, 11:20 PM
I agree. Minnesota is risking everything on him. They pretty much have no draft this year now, and just committed 30 million to a guy that has the mentality of a teenager. This could easily blow up in their faces. IMO they're taking much more risk than we are.

Wanna take bets on which team goes further in the playoffs? We are going to risk our money on a bunch of unproven rookies instead. Allen will be the league's best pass-rushing DE for the next four years. WTF knows what we'll get out of the almighty "Pick 17" and a couple of 3rd rounders. What will it be? Siavii 2? Kris Wilson 2? Ryan Sims 2? Eddie Freeman 2? So many wonderful options. We should go ahead and trade Dwayne Bowe while we're at it. Maybe we'll strike gold and get a guy just like Dwayne Bowe with the picks we get in return.

keg in kc
04-22-2008, 11:20 PM
My hope is that this turns out to be a mini-me version of the Hershel Walker trade.

beach tribe
04-22-2008, 11:20 PM
Didn't want to see it happen, but I think we got the best of this deal.
Carl, and Herm have a golden opportunity to win some fans with this draft.

Don't hold your breath.

J Diddy
04-22-2008, 11:21 PM
Walker - drafted in 1989 by Dallas - traded to Minny during the season in 1989 - guess he wasn't really that young (???)


ok I'm not lazy anymore

he was drafted in 85 and traded in 89

in his 4th year he was in his prime

thank you

Count Alex's Wins
04-22-2008, 11:22 PM
Here's some information about the trade proceedings.

According to our league source, the Chiefs were not going to send Allen to the Vikings for anything less than three picks in this year’s draft. The Vikings countered by offering two picks before adding an additional choice Monday, but one of those was in 2009 (a second-rounder). With this year’s draft deep at positions of need, Kansas City wanted all three picks in 2008.

Chiefs President Carl Peterson was unable to sign Allen to a long-term contract, but made sure that the NFL’s leading sacker was dealt for a fair price.

Allen gets his wish to play for the Vikings and the long-term security he sought a year ago when contract negotiations with the Chiefs went south for good.

The decision to deal Allen wasn’t easy for the Chiefs. Last week, head coach Herm Edwards said, “Sometimes you have to give up a good player to get more good players.”

Edwards and Peterson also had to sell the idea to trade Allen to owner Clark Hunt. Per our source, Hunt was involved in the process and was convinced that the short-term loss of Allen could be overcome with the addition of three draft picks.

beach tribe
04-22-2008, 11:22 PM
#5 C. Long/Ellis

#17 Otah.

J Diddy
04-22-2008, 11:22 PM
Wanna take bets on which team goes further in the playoffs? We are going to risk our money on a bunch of unproven rookies instead. Allen will be the league's best pass-rushing DE for the next four years. WTF knows what we'll get out of the almighty "Pick 17" and a couple of 3rd rounders. What will it be? Siavii 2? Kris Wilson 2? Ryan Sims 2? Eddie Freeman 2? So many wonderful options. We should go ahead and trade Dwayne Bowe while we're at it. Maybe we'll strike gold and get a guy just like Dwayne Bowe with the picks we get in return.

lol

sounds like the sand from your vagina spilled into your beer

Rain Man
04-22-2008, 11:23 PM
Please just shut the NFL down. I don't want to waste any more time on it.

This is the second-worst thing to ever happen to the Chiefs, and it was negotiated by the worst.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:23 PM
Wanna take bets on which team goes further in the playoffs? We are going to risk our money on a bunch of unproven rookies instead. Allen will be the league's best pass-rushing DE for the next four years. WTF knows what we'll get out of the almighty "Pick 17" and a couple of 3rd rounders. What will it be? Siavii 2? Kris Wilson 2? Ryan Sims 2? Eddie Freeman 2? So many wonderful options. We should go ahead and trade Dwayne Bowe while we're at it. Maybe we'll strike gold and get a guy just like Dwayne Bowe with the picks we get in return.

Yeah, I definitely understand your frustration. I was right there with you a couple of days ago. It's a risk. I just think it's a lesser risk than resigning a guy that has a history of tripping over his own feet off the field. What we got for him was more than I ever expected. I will say, I'm glad the examples you used for draft busts were all the selections of a senile old man stomping grapes somewhere in PA right now. I think we're gonna be just fiiiiiiiiiiine.

the Talking Can
04-22-2008, 11:24 PM
Wanna take bets on which team goes further in the playoffs? We are going to risk our money on a bunch of unproven rookies instead. Allen will be the league's best pass-rushing DE for the next four years. WTF knows what we'll get out of the almighty "Pick 17" and a couple of 3rd rounders. What will it be? Siavii 2? Kris Wilson 2? Ryan Sims 2? Eddie Freeman 2? So many wonderful options. We should go ahead and trade Dwayne Bowe while we're at it. Maybe we'll strike gold and get a guy just like Dwayne Bowe with the picks we get in return.

maybe we should all wear black lipstick and listen to goth music....

given that you believe we'll screw up all our draft picks anyways, what difference does Allen make?

xbarretx
04-22-2008, 11:24 PM
lol

sounds like the sand from your vagina spilled into your bear

BURN!!!!!!!! LMAO

p.s. you mean beer right? :toast:

Mecca
04-22-2008, 11:24 PM
I'm not crazy about Chris Long, I think he'll be solid but I don't think he'll ever be a dominant game changer.

the Talking Can
04-22-2008, 11:25 PM
My hope is that this turns out to be a mini-me version of the Hershel Walker trade.

it is...the only thing we have to do is draft right...

2 years worth of picks in one year....wow

Easy 6
04-22-2008, 11:25 PM
I hate to lose the guy, what a beast he can be...that Vikes line is going to be SICK.

But...if he's gone he's gone, not much i can do about it except get excited about what looks like an outstanding deal...unless of course, we blow those picks.

It IS going to be a fun draft this year.

xbarretx
04-22-2008, 11:25 PM
Please just shut the NFL down. I don't want to waste any more time on it.

This is the second-worst thing to ever happen to the Chiefs, and it was negotiated by the worst.

:grouphug:

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:26 PM
I'm not crazy about Chris Long, I think he'll be solid but I don't think he'll ever be a dominant game changer.

Well, I hope you're right. I think he's gonna be a Raider.

Rain Man
04-22-2008, 11:26 PM
A sad haiku:


Jared Allen's gone.
So is my hope for the Chiefs
Fire Peterson

xbarretx
04-22-2008, 11:26 PM
I'm not crazy about Chris Long, I think he'll be solid but I don't think he'll ever be a dominant game changer.

wasnt the argument for gholston that the Chiefs wont know how to use him right? :hmmm: no clue on that myself but i think Gun could think of a few things :)

beach tribe
04-22-2008, 11:26 PM
I'm not crazy about Chris Long, I think he'll be solid but I don't think he'll ever be a dominant game changer.

Don't forget to make your picks in the challenge.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:27 PM
it is...the only thing we have to do is draft right...

2 years worth of picks in one year....wow

Spread out nice and even over every round but the 2nd. 5 picks in the first 80? And both 1st rounders are non playoff selections. Inside the first 20. This could be the start of something very special.

Mecca
04-22-2008, 11:28 PM
wasnt the argument for gholston that the Chiefs wont know how to use him right? :hmmm: no clue on that myself but i think Gun could think of a few things :)

Gholston is taylor made for a cover 2, either way he has elite upside. Gholston physically is a hybrid of great players.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:28 PM
A sad haiku:


Jared Allen's gone.
So is my hope for the Chiefs
Fire Peterson

Not bad.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:29 PM
Gholston is taylor made for a cover 2, either way he has elite upside. Gholston physically is a hybrid of great players.

So you'd take him over Ellis. I think I disagree. Would you take him over Dorsey? If so, I revert to an earlier post. You're nuts. If he ends up here, again I hope you're right.

CrazyPhuD
04-22-2008, 11:30 PM
Interesting ESPN tidbits about sack leaders...wonder if JA will buck the trend...

After The Rush

The Vikings better hope that Jared Allen doesn't suffer the same fate as every other sack champion recently. They have all posted fewer sacks the year after winning the crown.

Year

Player, Team

Sacks

Next year
2007 Jared Allen, KC 15.5 ?
2006 Shawne Merriman, SD 17 12.5
2005 Derrick Burgess, OAK 16 11
2004 Dwight Freeney, IND 16 11
2003 Michael Strahan, NYG 18.5 4
2002 Jason Taylor, MIA 18.5 13
2001 Michael Strahan, NYG 22.5 11
2000 La'Roi Glover, NO 17 8

wazu
04-22-2008, 11:30 PM
Yeah, I definitely understand your frustration. I was right there with you a couple of days ago. It's a risk. I just think it's a lesser risk than resigning a guy that has a history of tripping over his own feet off the field. What we got for him was more than I ever expected. I will say, I'm glad the examples you used for draft busts were all the selections of a senile old man stomping grapes somewhere in PA right now. I think we're gonna be just fiiiiiiiiiiine.

I will say Herm's drafts have been better than Vermeil's, but they aren't exactly super so far. I held back on trashing his picks because I think it's too early to judge. Tank and Turk weren't world-beaters their first year, but I think they still have a chance to be good. Tamba is just good enough to be a solid start IMO. I think he's peaked, though. Bonecrusher shows flashes, but hasn't really exceeded expectations. Page and Bowe are obviously big wins so far. We'll see, but drafting a bunch of guys like the ones listed above doesn't sound to me like a formula for taking the league by storm via the draft.

I guess the most frustrating part to me is that when we DO manage to hit big in the case of a guy like Jared Allen, we piss it away and opt to roll the dice all over again. The guy just turned 26, and he's a bona fide superstar at his position. This is insanity.

Mecca
04-22-2008, 11:31 PM
So you'd take him over Ellis. I think I disagree. Would you take him over Dorsey? If so, I revert to an earlier post. You're nuts. If he ends up here, again I hope you're right.

I probably would, I love Ellis SC and all but a player like Gholston is very rare.

xbarretx
04-22-2008, 11:31 PM
Gholston is taylor made for a cover 2, either way he has elite upside. Gholston physically is a hybrid of great players.

http://www.ncaagridirongab.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/gholston-50.jpg

http://photo.the-ozone.net/photos/2007_2008/Football/07-09-01-FB-0080.jpg


i just wish he play offense so he could pimp slap Roidman in the teeth :cuss: j/k .. no wait im serious....

dude eats his wheeties (sp) is all i can say :clap:

wazu
04-22-2008, 11:32 PM
given that you believe we'll screw up all our draft picks anyways, what difference does Allen make?

Allen was a draft pick. We hit big, but in the end found a way to screw it up anyway. Isn't that unbelievably frustrating to anybody besides me and Rainman? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:33 PM
I will say Herm's drafts have been better than Vermeil's, but they aren't exactly super so far. I held back on trashing his picks because I think it's too early to judge. Tank and Turk weren't world-beaters their first year, but I think they still have a chance to be good. Tamba is just good enough to be a solid start IMO. I think he's peaked, though. Bonecrusher shows flashes, but hasn't really exceeded expectations. Page and Bowe are obviously big wins so far. We'll see, but drafting a bunch of guys like the ones listed above doesn't sound to me like a formula for taking the league by storm via the draft.

I guess the most frustrating part to me is that when we DO manage to hit big in the case of a guy like Jared Allen, we piss it away and opt to roll the dice all over again. The guy just turned 26, and he's a bona fide superstar at his position. This is insanity.

I don't disagree with one thing you said. No one is wrong to feel the way they feel about this situation. It sucks. I'm just choosing to be optimistic this time.

xbarretx
04-22-2008, 11:33 PM
Allen was a draft pick. We hit big, but in the end found a way to screw it up anyway. Isn't that unbelievably frustrating to anybody besides me and Rainman? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

no mr Zoolander quote ;)

if our teams going to suck...why make the same mistake twice this year. look we went 4 - 12 but at least LJ had his payday.....

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:35 PM
I probably would, I love Ellis SC and all but a player like Gholston is very rare.

Gholston is a monster. I really hope we don't trade out of 5. We're guaranteed one of the following: C. Long/Dorsey/Ellis/Gholston

The Bad Guy
04-22-2008, 11:36 PM
Allen was a draft pick. We hit big, but in the end found a way to screw it up anyway. Isn't that unbelievably frustrating to anybody besides me and Rainman? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

You are.

You don't tie up 30 million in guarantees to a guy one dumb move away from being suspended an entire year.

xbarretx
04-22-2008, 11:37 PM
Gholston is a monster. I really hope we don't trade out of 5. We're guaranteed one of the following: C. Long/Dorsey/Ellis/Gholston

and that Flop is the brass tacks... /end of thread ;)

the Talking Can
04-22-2008, 11:39 PM
Allen was a draft pick. We hit big, but in the end found a way to screw it up anyway. Isn't that unbelievably frustrating to anybody besides me and Rainman? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

this chain of events started when Allen got a DUI and got suspended....you can blame Carl, but you have to blame Allen first...

Allen screwed up...you're just used to blaming the Chiefs

we got 3 first day picks for an alki who didn't want to be here...this is Carl's best deal ever....

Mr. Flopnuts
04-22-2008, 11:40 PM
this chain of events started when Allen got a DUI and got suspended....you can blame Carl, but you have to blame Allen first...

Allen screwed up...you're just used to blaming the Chiefs

we got 3 first day picks for an alki who didn't want to be here...this is Carl's best deal ever....

I really think it looks that way.

Rain Man
04-22-2008, 11:44 PM
Allen was a draft pick. We hit big, but in the end found a way to screw it up anyway. Isn't that unbelievably frustrating to anybody besides me and Rainman? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

Everyone seems to think we're going to get solid starters out of those third-round picks. You know, like Marvin Minnis and Gary Stills and Julian Battle and Greg Favors and Pat Barnes and Troy Dumas from Carl's previous picks.

It's not even a Carl thing. The odds of a third-round pick becoming a starter are low, much less becoming a star. And yes, I know about Will Shields. I also know about Powerball winners.

SBK
04-22-2008, 11:45 PM
this chain of events started when Allen got a DUI and got suspended....you can blame Carl, but you have to blame Allen first...

Allen screwed up...you're just used to blaming the Chiefs

we got 3 first day picks for an alki who didn't want to be here...this is Carl's best deal ever....

I hate to agree (not with you, but that Carl did something right)....But this was a prison rape.

BIG K
04-22-2008, 11:47 PM
this chain of events started when Allen got a DUI and got suspended....you can blame Carl, but you have to blame Allen first...

Allen screwed up...you're just used to blaming the Chiefs

we got 3 first day picks for an alki who didn't want to be here...this is Carl's best deal ever....

I will miss JA but, I have to agree in principle with this post. JA created this chain of events with his problem. I may be in the minority here but, it seems to me that the Chiefs just picked up three fresh meats to help rebuild.

If the Chiefs were one or five players away from winning the Superbowl and this trade occured, I would be driving to MO to cap some rounds. Given the state of the team in rebuild mode though, I am happy with this...

cdcox
04-22-2008, 11:47 PM
Everyone seems to think we're going to get solid starters out of those third-round picks. You know, like Marvin Minnis and Gary Stills and Julian Battle and Greg Favors and Pat Barnes and Troy Dumas from Carl's previous picks.

It's not even a Carl thing. The odds of a third-round pick becoming a starter are low, much less becoming a star. And yes, I know about Will Shields. I also know about Powerball winners.

Look at it on the bright side:

If this does turn out to be Babe Ruth to the Yankees trade we already have a down payment that will cover half of the curse.

Rain Man
04-22-2008, 11:48 PM
Who wants to bet me that the three guys we draft will go to more pro bowls than Allen? I'll take Allen, you get the three draft picks.

Mr. Kotter
04-22-2008, 11:49 PM
this chain of events started when Allen got a DUI and got suspended....you can blame Carl, but you have to blame Allen first...

Allen screwed up...you're just used to blaming the Chiefs

we got 3 first day picks for an alki who didn't want to be here...this is Carl's best deal ever....


Hey, bitch....

This may be the ONE and only time I agree with your silly ass. Unless I vote for Obama in November too....

Heh. :p



As far as this Allen ordeal...you've nailed my thoughts, 100% dead-on though.

:thumb:

beach tribe
04-22-2008, 11:49 PM
Everyone seems to think we're going to get solid starters out of those third-round picks. You know, like Marvin Minnis and Gary Stills and Julian Battle and Greg Favors and Pat Barnes and Troy Dumas from Carl's previous picks.

It's not even a Carl thing. The odds of a third-round pick becoming a starter are low, much less becoming a star. And yes, I know about Will Shields. I also know about Powerball winners.

I always wondered what it would be like to be a fan of the 72 bucks, 90's bengals, the Lions in general. I used to laugh at them. I guess what goes around comes around.

Rain Man
04-22-2008, 11:50 PM
Look at it on the bright side:

If this does turn out to be Babe Ruth to the Yankees trade we already have a down payment that will cover half of the curse.

Does the curse start with Peterson showing up, or can we actually count the Steadman years, too?

CanadaKC
04-22-2008, 11:50 PM
RainMan...I feel for ya bud...but we'll just have to wait and see how the next 4-5 years turns out...then we can examine the legacy of Carl at much more depth.

Mecca
04-22-2008, 11:51 PM
Does the curse start with Peterson showing up, or can we actually count the Steadman years, too?

What if they take Gholston and he plays like he's Derrick Thomas and is even better than Allen what will you say then?

the Talking Can
04-22-2008, 11:51 PM
Who wants to bet me that the three guys we draft will go to more pro bowls than Allen? I'll take Allen, you get the three draft picks.

so what?

I don't care about probowls, I care about building a championship team....if we draft well, we'll take a giant step in that direction...

BIG K
04-22-2008, 11:51 PM
Everyone seems to think we're going to get solid starters out of those third-round picks. You know, like Marvin Minnis and Gary Stills and Julian Battle and Greg Favors and Pat Barnes and Troy Dumas from Carl's previous picks.

It's not even a Carl thing. The odds of a third-round pick becoming a starter are low, much less becoming a star. And yes, I know about Will Shields. I also know about Powerball winners.

Trust me, I am not giving any credit to CP or others but, in the past, the Chiefs seemed to build their team through FA, and then hopeffully, some draft picks would work out.

I like the idea of at least ATTEMPTING to build through the draft, and see how FA works out. What possibly could it hurt Mr. Rainman? Everything else has failed....

wazu
04-22-2008, 11:52 PM
we got 3 first day picks for an alki who didn't want to be here...this is Carl's best deal ever....

An "alki"...who no longer drinks at all. Great deal. And if dealing away the team's best player for a 1st and two 3rds qualifies as Carl's best deal ever, then I think that pretty much explains how this team got to where it is now.

The Chiefs have now hit rock bottom, and are entering a new era. One where we deal our young superstars for "prospects". This sounds a lot like following the Royals in the 90s.

Mecca
04-22-2008, 11:53 PM
Alki's who open bars and say they are cured are generally people who end up drinking more...

You have to look at this logically.

wazu
04-22-2008, 11:53 PM
I like the idea of at least ATTEMPTING to build through the draft, and see how FA works out. What possibly could it hurt Mr. Rainman? Everything else has failed....

I love the idea of building through the draft. JARED ALLEN CAME TO US THROUGH THE DRAFT! Of course, if you send away the picks that hit, it kinda negates any success that is achieved via the draft.

Rain Man
04-22-2008, 11:54 PM
What if they take Gholston and he plays like he's Derrick Thomas and is even better than Allen what will you say then?

Then I'll say, "If we had kept Allen instead of trading him and drafting those two backup cornerbacks, Allen and Gholston would have won that first-round playoff game against Indianapolis in 2009."

Mecca
04-22-2008, 11:55 PM
I can't wait till Allen gets suspended this way the foresight and hindsight will be together unlike with Larry Johnson.

CanadaKC
04-22-2008, 11:55 PM
Adam..please see "Patriots" before you make you're argument about building through the draft...

the Talking Can
04-22-2008, 11:57 PM
An "alki"...who no longer drinks at all. Great deal. And if dealing away the team's best player for a 1st and two 3rds qualifies as Carl's best deal ever, then I think that pretty much explains how this team got to where it is now.

The Chiefs have now hit rock bottom, and are entering a new era. One where we deal our young superstars for "prospects". This sounds a lot like following the Royals in the 90s.

we've sucked ass for 15 years, and now we're finally rebuilding and all you can do is piss and moan like nothing has changed...


sorry, if you don't see what's going on I can't help you....enjoy your misery, go sign up to be a friend on Allen's myspace page...

KCwolf
04-22-2008, 11:57 PM
I really think it looks that way.


That's A good Bingo....

cdcox
04-22-2008, 11:57 PM
Does the curse start with Peterson showing up, or can we actually count the Steadman years, too?

Does Russia get to count the Lenin years?

wazu
04-22-2008, 11:57 PM
Alki's who open bars and say they are cured are generally people who end up drinking more...

You have to look at this logically.

Really? How many have you known? I can count on one finger the number of alcoholics I know who completely quit drinking, and that individual never started again. He serves alcohol to people at parties he throws, always makes sure there's plenty in the fridge and cupboard for his guests, but doesn't touch it himself.

I haven't known any that opened a bar, but if the goal is to go out drinking there are easier ways than by opening your own bar. I don't see the connection as being that damning.

Mecca
04-22-2008, 11:58 PM
we've sucked ass for 15 years, and now we're finally rebuilding and all you can do is piss and moan like nothing has changed...


sorry, if you don't see what's going on I can't help you....enjoy your misery, go sign up to be a friend on Allen's myspace page...

I think it's partially because this team hasn't won people become attached to name players like it's all they have and that becomes the most important thing more than winning because they don't believe we'll ever win.

markk
04-22-2008, 11:59 PM
he was not going to stay. we didn't get something for nothing. we got a sh*tload for nothing

Rain Man
04-23-2008, 12:00 AM
Trust me, I am not giving any credit to CP or others but, in the past, the Chiefs seemed to build their team through FA, and then hopeffully, some draft picks would work out.

I like the idea of at least ATTEMPTING to build through the draft, and see how FA works out. What possibly could it hurt Mr. Rainman? Everything else has failed....

I sincerely hope that the Chiefs roll quadruple boxcars and get three great starters out of this. I really do. I just look at the odds and see a very high likelihood that we'll rue this day.

Most important to me is the fact that rising stars want to leave this team because of issues with our front office. It has nothing to do with money, nothing to do with Kansas City, nothing to do with anything other than a dislike for our general manager - and our general manager has a job for life.

wazu
04-23-2008, 12:00 AM
he was not going to stay.

Was he going to retire? Because that was pretty much his only choice as long as the Chiefs kept the franchise tag over his head.

wazu
04-23-2008, 12:02 AM
I think it's partially because this team hasn't won people become attached to name players like it's all they have and that becomes the most important thing more than winning because they don't believe we'll ever win.

No, it isn't. It's because Jared Allen is a freaking force to be reckoned with. It seems like damned near every time something goes our way on defense, he is in the middle of it.

Whoever they draft at 17 better be the second coming. Because, as mentioned, the two backup corners we get in round 3 are not going to fill the void that has just been created on this team.

the Talking Can
04-23-2008, 12:03 AM
I sincerely hope that the Chiefs roll quadruple boxcars and get three great starters out of this. I really do. I just look at the odds and see a very high likelihood that we'll rue this day.

Most important to me is the fact that rising stars want to leave this team because of issues with our front office. It has nothing to do with money, nothing to do with Kansas City, nothing to do with anything other than a dislike for our general manager - and our general manager has a job for life.

Allen is one player...and he's an immature alcoholic who left because he was "dissed"...like a dumb 15 yr old...

Gonzo, LJ, Priest, Shields, Waters etc. all got their money and all understood the process, the game....

Allen took it all personally and started pounding his fists and crying...stop blaming people for his behavior....

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 12:07 AM
3-13 here we come.

ChiefsCountry
04-23-2008, 12:08 AM
Most important to me is the fact that rising stars want to leave this team because of issues with our front office. It has nothing to do with money, nothing to do with Kansas City, nothing to do with anything other than a dislike for our general manager - and our general manager has a job for life.

Every other star player the Chiefs have drafted under Peterson, the Chiefs paid them expect Dale Carter. If Peterson didnt think Allen was such a risk, he would have paided him IMO.

markk
04-23-2008, 12:08 AM
Was he going to retire? Because that was pretty much his only choice as long as the Chiefs kept the franchise tag over his head.

yeah, i'm sure he would have just played under the tag forever.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-23-2008, 12:08 AM
3-13 here we come.

Sweet. Michael Oher will go a long ways in continuing this rebuild. We should be ready to make a long run by 2010.

ChiefsCountry
04-23-2008, 12:08 AM
3-13 here we come.

We were all ready going to be bad, with or without Allen.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-23-2008, 12:09 AM
Every other star player the Chiefs have drafted under Peterson, the Chiefs paid them expect Dale Carter. If Peterson didnt think Allen was such a risk, he would have paided him IMO.

I wish someone would paided me.

Mecca
04-23-2008, 12:11 AM
No, it isn't. It's because Jared Allen is a freaking force to be reckoned with. It seems like damned near every time something goes our way on defense, he is in the middle of it.

Whoever they draft at 17 better be the second coming. Because, as mentioned, the two backup corners we get in round 3 are not going to fill the void that has just been created on this team.

That attitude of the 3rd round picks being backups is just what I'm talking about.

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 12:11 AM
We were all ready going to be bad, with or without Allen.

I know, i was guessing 5-11, but actually looking better. Now it hink 3-13 and we will be worse. Offenses are so going to run over the Chiefs. We will be going back to the 2003 defense. Our Dline will NOT be good enough. They wont even be average imo. I guess the good thing though is soon Carl and Herm will be gone.

Mr. Kotter
04-23-2008, 12:12 AM
3-13 here we come.

Maybe....for 2008. :shrug:

For 2009....and beyond? I like the potential impact of 13 or more picks from a very STRONG draft.....what, possibly 6-7 starters for the next five or six years, added to two pretty strong draft classes for 2006 and 2007?

I like the potential of that.... :hmmm:

Rain Man
04-23-2008, 12:13 AM
Every other star player the Chiefs have drafted under Peterson, the Chiefs paid them expect Dale Carter. If Peterson didnt think Allen was such a risk, he would have paided him IMO.

All six of them in his 20-year career.

the Talking Can
04-23-2008, 12:15 AM
3-13 here we come.

we were headed there anyway.....

and I'll gladly take another top 5 pick

Rain Man
04-23-2008, 12:17 AM
Here are the third-round picks from the last ten years. Rebuild away.

Year Round Pick Player Name Team Position College
2007 3 1 65 Quentin Moses Raiders DE Georgia
3 2 66 Usama Young Saints DB Kent State
3 3 67 James Marten Cowboys T Boston College
3 4 68 Quincy Black Buccaneers LB New Mexico
3 5 69 Buster Davis Cardinals LB Florida State
3 6 70 Ryan Harris Broncos T Notre Dame
3 7 71 Lorenzo Booker Dolphins RB Florida State
3 8 72 Marcus McCauley Vikings DB Fresno State
3 9 73 Jacoby Jones Texans WR Lane
3 10 74 Yamon Figurs Ravens WR Kansas State
3 11 75 Laurent Robinson Falcons WR Illinois State
3 12 76 Jason Hill 49ers WR Washington State
3 13 77 Matt Spaeth Steelers TE Minnesota
3 14 78 James Jones Packers WR San Jose State
3 15 79 Mike Walker Jaguars WR Central Florida
3 17 80 Paul Williams Titans WR Fresno State
3 18 81 Jay Alford Giants DT Penn State
3 19 82 DeMarcus 'Tank' Tyler Chiefs DT North Carolina State
3 20 83 Charles Johnson Panthers DE Georgia
3 21 84 Jonathan Wade Rams DB Tennessee
3 22 85 Brandon Mebane Seahawks DT California
3 23 86 Marshall Yanda Ravens G Iowa
3 24 87 Stewart Bradley Eagles LB Nebraska
3 25 88 Andy Alleman Saints G Akron
3 26 89 Aaron Rouse Packers DB Virginia Tech
3 27 90 Tony Hunt Eagles RB Penn State
3 28 91 Mario Henderson Raiders T Florida State
3 29 92 Trent Edwards Bills QB Stanford
3 30 93 Garrett Wolfe Bears RB Northern Illinois
3 31 94 Michael Okwo Bears LB Stanford
3 32 95 Daymeion Hughes Colts DB California
3 33 96 Anthony Waters Chargers LB Clemson
3 34 97 Ray McDonald 49ers DT Florida
3 35 98 Quinn Pitcock Colts DT Ohio State
3 36 99 Johnnie Lee Higgins Raiders WR Texas-El Paso
2006 3 1 65 Charles Spencer Texans T Pittsburgh
3 2 66 Eric Winston Texans T Miami (FL)
3 3 67 Abdul Hodge Packers LB Iowa
3 4 68 Claude Wroten Rams DT Louisiana State
3 5 69 Paul McQuistan Raiders G Weber State
3 6 70 Ashton Youboty Bills DB Ohio State
3 7 71 Chris Gocong Eagles DE Cal Poly
3 8 72 Leonard Pope Cardinals TE Georgia
3 9 73 Dusty Dvoracek Bears DT Oklahoma
3 10 74 Brian Calhoun Lions RB Wisconsin
3 11 75 Jason Spitz Packers C Louisville
3 12 76 Anthony Schlegel Jets LB Ohio State
3 13 77 Jon Alston Rams LB Stanford
3 14 78 Travis Wilson Browns WR Oklahoma
3 15 79 Jerious Norwood Falcons RB Mississippi State
3 16 80 Clint Ingram Jaguars LB Oklahoma
3 17 81 Charlie Whitehurst Chargers QB Clemson
3 18 82 Derek Hagan Dolphins WR Arizona State
3 19 83 Anthony Smith Steelers DB Syracuse
3 20 84 Brandon Williams 49ers WR Wisconsin
3 21 85 Brodie Croyle Chiefs QB Alabama
3 22 86 Dave Thomas Patriots TE Texas
3 23 87 David Pittman Ravens DB Northwestern State
3 24 88 James Anderson Panthers LB Virginia Tech
3 25 89 Rashad Butler Panthers T Miami (FL)
3 26 90 Maurice Stovall Buccaneers WR Notre Dame
3 27 91 Frostee Rucker Bengals DE USC
3 28 92 Jason Hatcher Cowboys DE Grambling State
3 29 93 Dominique Byrd Rams TE USC
3 30 94 Freddie Keiaho Colts LB San Diego State
3 31 95 Willie Reid Steelers WR Florida State
3 32 96 Gerris Wilkinson Giants LB Georgia Tech
3 33 97 Eric Smith Jets DB Michigan State
2005 3 1 65 Frank Gore 49ers RB Miami (FL)
3 2 66 Oshiomogho Atogwe Rams DB Stanford
3 3 67 Charlie Frye Browns QB Akron
3 4 68 Courtney Roby Titans WR Indiana
3 5 69 Andrew Walter Raiders QB Arizona State
3 6 70 Channing Crowder Dolphins LB Florida
3 7 71 Alex Smith Buccaneers TE Stanford
3 8 72 Stanley Wilson Lions DB Stanford
3 9 73 Vernand Morency Texans RB Oklahoma State
3 10 74 Justin Tuck Giants DE Notre Dame
3 11 75 Eric Green Cardinals DB Virginia Tech
3 12 76 Karl Paymah Broncos DB Washington State
3 13 77 Ryan Moats Eagles RB Louisiana Tech
3 14 78 Kirk Morrison Raiders LB San Diego State
3 15 79 Evan Mathis Panthers G Alabama
3 16 80 Dustin Fox Vikings DB Ohio State
3 17 81 Richie Incognito Rams C Nebraska
3 18 82 Alfred Fincher Saints LB Connecticut
3 19 83 Chris Henry Bengals WR West Virginia
3 20 84 Ellis Hobbs Patriots DB Iowa State
3 21 85 David Greene Seahawks QB Georgia
3 22 86 Kevin Everett Bills TE Miami (FL)
3 23 87 Scott Starks Jaguars DB Wisconsin
3 24 88 Sione Pouha Jets DT Utah
3 25 89 Atiyyah Ellison Panthers DT Missouri
3 26 90 Jordan Beck Falcons LB Cal Poly
3 27 91 Chris Colmer Buccaneers T North Carolina State
3 28 92 Vincent Burns Colts DE Kentucky
3 29 93 Trai Essex Steelers T Northwestern
3 30 94 Adam Snyder 49ers G Oregon
3 31 95 Darryl Blackstock Cardinals LB Virginia
3 32 96 Brandon Jones Titans WR Oklahoma
3 33 97 Domonique Foxworth Broncos DB Maryland
3 34 98 Leroy Hill Seahawks LB Clemson
3 35 99 Dustin Colquitt Chiefs P Tennessee
3 36 100 Nick Kaczur Patriots G Toledo
3 37 101 Maurice Clarett Broncos RB Ohio State
2004 3 1 64 Darnell Dockett Cardinals DE Florida State
3 2 65 Nate Kaeding Chargers K Iowa
3 3 66 Nick Hardwick Chargers C Purdue
3 4 67 Stuart Schweigert Raiders DB Purdue
3 5 68 Ben Hartsock Colts TE Ohio State
3 6 69 Gilbert Gardner Colts LB Purdue
3 7 70 Joey Thomas Packers DB Montana State
3 8 71 Randy Starks Titans DT Maryland
3 9 72 Donnell Washington Packers DT Clemson
3 10 73 Keith Smith Lions DB McNeese State
3 11 74 Tim Anderson Bills DT Ohio State
3 12 75 Max Starks Steelers T Florida
3 13 76 Derrick Strait Jets DB Oklahoma
3 14 77 Derrick Hamilton 49ers WR Clemson
3 15 78 Bernard Berrian Bears WR Fresno State
3 16 79 Marquis Cooper Buccaneers LB Washington
3 17 80 Caleb Miller Bengals LB Arkansas
3 18 81 Chris Cooley Redskins TE Utah State
3 19 82 Devard Darling Ravens WR Washington State
3 20 83 Stephen Peterman Cowboys G Louisiana State
3 21 84 Sean Locklear Seahawks G North Carolina State
3 22 85 Jeremy LeSueur Broncos DB Michigan
3 23 86 Jorge Cordova Jaguars LB Nevada
3 24 87 B.J. Sander Packers P Ohio State
3 25 88 Darrion Scott Vikings DE Ohio State
3 26 89 Matt Ware Eagles DB UCLA
3 27 90 Matt Schaub Falcons QB Virginia
3 28 91 Tony Hargrove Rams DE Georgia Tech
3 29 92 Rich Gardner Titans DB Penn State
3 30 93 Keyaron Fox Chiefs LB Georgia Tech
3 31 94 Travelle Wharton Panthers T South Carolina
3 32 95 Guss Scott Patriots DB Florida
3 33 96 Landon Johnson Bengals LB Purdue
2003 3 1 65 Kelley Washington Bengals WR Tennessee
3 2 66 Cory Redding Lions DE Texas
3 3 67 Antwan Peek Texans LB Cincinnati
3 4 68 Lance Briggs Bears LB Arizona
3 5 69 Jason Witten Cowboys TE Tennessee
3 6 70 Gerald Hayes Cardinals LB Pittsburgh
3 7 71 Nate Burleson Vikings WR Nevada-Reno
3 8 72 Vincent Manuwai Jaguars G Hawaii
3 9 73 Wayne Hunter Seahawks T Hawaii
3 10 74 Kevin Curtis Rams WR Utah State
3 11 75 Seth Wand Texans T Northwest Missouri State
3 12 76 Mike Seidman Panthers TE UCLA
3 13 77 Musa Smith Ravens RB Georgia
3 14 78 Wade Smith Dolphins T Memphis
3 15 79 Kenny Peterson Packers DE Ohio State
3 16 80 Courtney Van Buren Chargers G Arkansas-Pine Bluff
3 17 81 Derrick Dockery Redskins G Texas
3 18 82 Ricky Manning Panthers DB UCLA
3 19 83 Sam Williams Raiders LB Fresno State
3 20 84 Chris Crocker Browns DB Marshall
3 21 85 B.J. Askew Jets RB Michigan
3 22 86 Willie Grant Saints LB Ohio State
3 23 87 Taylor Whitley Dolphins G Texas A&M
3 24 88 Dave Ragone Texans QB Louisville
3 25 89 Andrew Williams 49ers DE Miami (FL)
3 26 90 Donald Strickland Colts DB Colorado
3 27 91 Vishante Shiancoe Giants TE Morgan State
3 28 92 Julian Battle Chiefs DB Tennessee
3 29 93 Chris Brown Titans RB Colorado
3 30 94 Angelo Crowell Bills LB Virginia
3 31 95 Billy McMullen Eagles WR Virginia
3 32 96 Justin Fargas Raiders RB USC
3 33 97 Chris Simms Buccaneers QB Texas
2002 3 1 66 Fred Weary Texans C Tennessee
3 2 67 Matt Schobel Bengals TE Texas Christian
3 3 68 Andre Goodman Lions DB South Carolina
3 4 69 Saleem Rasheed 49ers LB Alabama
3 5 70 Willie Offord Vikings DB South Carolina
3 6 71 Ben Leber Chargers LB Kansas State
3 7 72 Roosevelt Williams Bears DB Tuskegee
3 8 73 Will Witherspoon Panthers LB Georgia
3 9 74 Joseph Jefferson Colts DB Western Kentucky
3 10 75 Derek Ross Cowboys DB Ohio State
3 11 76 Melvin Fowler Browns C Maryland
3 12 77 Rocky Calmus Titans LB Oklahoma
3 13 78 Jeff Hatch Giants T Pennsylvania
3 14 79 Rashad Bauman Redskins DB Oregon
3 15 80 Will Overstreet Falcons DE Tennessee
3 16 81 Josh McCown Cardinals QB Sam Houston State
3 17 82 James Allen Saints LB Oregon State
3 18 83 Charles Hill Texans DT Maryland
3 19 84 Lamar Gordon Rams RB North Dakota State
3 20 85 Kris Richard Seahawks DB USC
3 21 86 Marquis Walker Buccaneers WR Michigan
3 22 87 Cliff Russell Redskins WR Utah
3 23 88 Chris Baker Jets TE Michigan State
3 24 89 Akin Ayodele Jaguars LB Purdue
3 25 90 Seth McKinney Dolphins C Texas A&M
3 26 91 Brian Westbrook Eagles RB Villanova
3 27 92 Marques Anderson Packers DB UCLA
3 28 93 Terrence Metcalf Bears G Mississippi
3 29 94 Chris Hope Steelers DB Florida State
3 30 95 Eric Crouch Rams WR Nebraska
3 31 96 Dorsett Davis Broncos DT Mississippi State
3 32 97 Coy Wire Bills DB Stanford
3 33 98 Dennis Johnson Cardinals DE Kentucky
2001 3 1 63 Derrick Burgess Eagles DE Mississippi
3 2 64 Adrian Wilson Cardinals DB North Carolina
3 3 65 James Jackson Browns RB Miami (FL)
3 4 66 Sean Brewer Bengals TE San Jose State
3 5 67 Tay Cody Chargers DB Florida State
3 6 68 Mike Gandy Bears G Notre Dame
3 7 69 Eric Kelly Vikings DB Kentucky
3 8 70 Sedrick Hodge Saints LB North Carolina
3 9 71 Bhawoh Jue Packers DB Penn State
3 10 72 Torrance Marshall Packers LB Oklahoma
3 11 73 Eric Westmoreland Jaguars LB Tennessee
3 12 74 Steve Smith Panthers WR Utah
3 13 75 Eric Downing Chiefs DT Syracuse
3 14 76 Ron Edwards Bills DT Texas A&M
3 15 77 Marvin Minnis Chiefs WR Florida State
3 16 78 William Peterson Giants DB Western Illinois
3 17 79 Kareem McKenzie Jets T Penn State
3 18 80 Kevan Barlow 49ers RB Pittsburgh
3 19 81 Kenny Smith Saints DT Alabama
3 20 82 Heath Evans Seahawks RB Auburn
3 21 83 Brian Allen Rams LB Florida State
3 22 84 Dwight Smith Buccaneers DB Akron
3 23 85 Travis Minor Dolphins RB Florida State
3 24 86 Brock Williams Patriots DB Notre Dame
3 25 87 Reggie Hayward Broncos DE Iowa State
3 26 88 Morlon Greenwood Dolphins LB Syracuse
3 27 89 DeLawrence Grant Raiders DE Oregon State
3 28 90 Shad Meier Titans TE Kansas State
3 29 91 Cory Bird Colts DB Virginia Tech
3 30 92 Casey Rabach Ravens C Wisconsin
3 31 93 Willie Blade Cowboys DT Mississippi State
3 32 94 James Boyd Jaguars DB Penn State
3 33 95 Jonas Jennings Bills T Georgia
2000 3 1 63 Travis Prentice Browns RB Miami (OH)
3 2 64 Lloyd Harrison Redskins DB North Carolina State
3 3 65 Giovanni Carmazzi 49ers QB Hofstra
3 4 66 Ron Dugans Bengals WR Florida State
3 5 67 Mark Simoneau Falcons LB Kansas State
3 6 68 Erron Kinney Titans TE Florida
3 7 69 Dez White Bears WR Georgia Tech
3 8 70 Chris Cole Broncos WR Texas A&M
3 9 71 Darwin Walker Cardinals DT Tennessee
3 10 72 Kendrick Clancy Steelers DT Mississippi
3 11 73 Ron Dixon Giants WR Lambuth (TN)
3 12 74 Steve Warren Packers DT Nebraska
3 13 75 Chris Redman Ravens QB Louisville
3 14 76 J.R. Redmond Patriots RB Arizona State
3 15 77 Hank Poteat Steelers DB Pittsburgh
3 16 78 Laveranues Coles Jets WR Florida State
3 17 79 JaJuan Dawson Browns WR Tulane
3 18 80 Darrell Jackson Seahawks WR Florida
3 19 81 Reuben Droughns Lions RB Oregon
3 20 82 Leander Jordan Panthers G Indiana (PA)
3 21 83 Damion McIntosh Chargers T Kansas State
3 22 84 Ben Kelly Dolphins DB Colorado
3 23 85 Gregory Wesley Chiefs DB Arkansas-Pine Bluff
3 24 86 Jeff Ulbrich 49ers LB Hawaii
3 25 87 Dustin Lyman Bears LB Wake Forest
3 26 88 Doug Chapman Vikings RB Marshall
3 27 89 Corey Moore Bills LB Virginia Tech
3 28 90 Nate Webster Buccaneers LB Miami (FL)
3 29 91 David Macklin Colts DB Penn State
3 30 92 T.J. Slaughter Jaguars LB Southern Mississippi
3 31 93 Byron Frisch Titans DE Brigham Young
3 32 94 John St. Clair Rams C Virginia
1999 3 1 62 Daylon McCutcheon Browns DB USC
3 2 63 Brandon Burlsworth Colts G Arkansas
3 3 64 Doug Brzezinski Eagles G Boston College
3 4 65 Cory Hall Bengals DB Fresno State
3 5 66 Rex Tucker Bears T Texas A&M
3 6 67 Chris Watson Broncos DB Eastern Illinois
3 7 68 Rich Coady Rams DB Texas A&M
3 8 69 Steve Heiden Chargers TE South Dakota State
3 9 70 Jared DeVries Lions DT Iowa
3 10 71 D'Wayne Bates Bears WR Northwestern
3 11 72 Grey Ruegamer Dolphins C Arizona State
3 12 73 Joey Porter Steelers DE Colorado State
3 13 74 Kris Farris Steelers T UCLA
3 14 75 Gary Stills Chiefs LB West Virginia
3 15 76 Marquis Smith Browns DB California
3 16 77 Brock Huard Seahawks QB Washington
3 17 78 Marty Booker Bears WR N.E. Louisiana
3 18 79 Dan Campbell Giants TE Texas A&M
3 19 80 Martin Gramatica Buccaneers K Kansas State
3 20 81 Zach Piller Oilers G Florida
3 21 82 Karsten Bailey Seahawks WR Auburn
3 22 83 Tom Burke Cardinals LB Wisconsin
3 23 84 Larry Atkins Chiefs DB UCLA
3 24 85 Dat Nguyen Cowboys LB Texas A&M
3 25 86 Shawn Bryson Bills RB Tennessee
3 26 87 Mike McKenzie Packers DB Memphis
3 27 88 Anthony Cesario Jaguars G Colorado State
3 28 89 Chike Okeafor 49ers DE Purdue
3 29 90 David Loverne Jets G San Jose State
3 30 91 Tony George Patriots DB Florida
3 31 92 Jeff Paulk Falcons RB Arizona State
3 32 93 Travis McGriff Broncos WR Florida
3 33 94 Cletidus Hunt Packers DT Kentucky State
3 34 95 Amos Zereoue Steelers RB West Virginia
1998 3 1 62 Chuck Wiley Panthers DE Louisiana State
3 2 63 Jon Ritchie Raiders RB Stanford
3 3 64 Olin Kreutz Bears C Washington
3 4 65 Leonard Little Rams DE Tennessee
3 5 66 Chris Conrad Steelers T Fresno State
3 6 67 Scott Frost Jets DB Nebraska
3 7 68 Robert Hicks Bills T Mississippi State
3 8 69 Skip Hicks Redskins RB UCLA
3 9 70 Brian Alford Giants WR Purdue
3 10 71 E.G. Green Colts WR Florida State
3 11 72 Jeremiah Trotter Eagles LB Stephen F. Austin
3 12 73 Mitch Marrow Panthers DE Pennsylvania
3 13 74 Jammi German Falcons WR Miami (FL)
3 14 75 Steve Foley Bengals LB N.E. Louisiana
3 15 76 Ahman Green Seahawks RB Nebraska
3 16 77 Dainon Sidney Oilers DB Alabama-Birmingham
3 17 78 Mike Goff Bengals G Iowa
3 18 79 Brad Jackson Dolphins LB Cincinnati
3 19 80 Ramos McDonald Vikings DB New Mexico
3 20 81 Chris Floyd Patriots RB Michigan
3 21 82 Larry Shannon Dolphins WR East Carolina
3 22 83 Greg Spires Patriots DE Florida State
3 23 84 Jamie Duncan Buccaneers LB Vanderbilt
3 24 85 Allen Rossum Eagles DB Notre Dame
3 25 86 Jonathan Quinn Jaguars QB Middle Tennessee State
3 26 87 Kevin Williams Jets DB Oklahoma State
3 27 88 Rashaan Shehee Chiefs RB Washington
3 28 89 Chris Ruhman 49ers T Texas A&M
3 29 90 Jonathan Brown Packers DE Tennessee
3 30 91 Brian Griese Broncos QB Michigan
3 31 92 Hines Ward Steelers WR Georgia

Chiefs Pantalones
04-23-2008, 12:17 AM
This is a terrible deal. Bad compensation.

I hate this team. We're ****ed, ****ed this, **** Carl, **** Clark, **** Herm, **** this.

DaWolf
04-23-2008, 12:17 AM
1) The only void on this team is a lack of a World Championship since '69.

2) If a guy doesn't want to be here and is going to cry about getting disrespected after this team was the only team that touched him in the draft despite his problems in college and after tow DUI's, let him go.

3) Get people in here who want to play and who want to win and who want to be here and be coached.

Now that Allen has his money, let's see if he works his butt off to remain one of the top players in the league, or if his performance drops. It should be interesting to see. Nevertheless, he was a force last year and we were still 4-12. If this trade translates into three solid contributors to a winning team in 2 years, it will be well worth it.

Meanwhile, this is what everyone here was crying for the Chiefs to do back when we were hovering around 8-8 or 7-9 or 9-7. Let's actually go through with this plan and see if it gets us any further than the other plans did. Cause we all know nothing else has worked for almost 40 years...

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 12:18 AM
Maybe....for 2008. :shrug:

For 2009....and beyond? I like the potential impact of 13 or more picks from a very STRONG draft.....what, possibly 6-7 starters for the next five or six years, added to two pretty strong draft classes for 2006 and 2007?

I like the potential of that.... :hmmm:
We have to nail on these picks though. We gave up someone who could possibly be one of the all time greats for a question mark. Knowing the Chiefs though, this shit will some how backfire. I just expect it i guess.


I just want Herm and Carl gone. THen all will be ok.

wazu
04-23-2008, 12:18 AM
That attitude of the 3rd round picks being backups is just what I'm talking about.

This isn't an "attitude". This is just observation. Below is a list of all 3rd round picks we have taken in the last 10 years.

2007 - Tank Tyler
2006 - Brodie Croyle
2005 - Dustin Colquit
2004 - Keyaron Fox
2003 - Julian Battle
2001 - Eric Downing
2001 - Snoop Minnis
2000 - Greg Wesley
1999 - Gary Stills
1999 - Larry Atkins
1998 - Rashaan Shehee

Need I go on?

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 12:19 AM
This is a terrible deal. Bad compensation.

I hate this team. We're ****ed, ****ed this, **** Carl, **** Clark, **** Herm, **** this.I am with you on this. I hate this ****ing deal.

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 12:20 AM
we were headed there anyway.....

and I'll gladly take another top 5 pick

I will take it as well, but i dont ever wanna ****ing go through what we did last year. Shit is going to be deja vu all over again. Soon we will have so many top 5 picks that Carl will do something ****ing retarded so he doesnt have to pay them.

Mecca
04-23-2008, 12:21 AM
This isn't an "attitude". This is just observation. Below is a list of all 3rd round picks we have taken in the last 10 years.

2007 - Tank Tyler
2006 - Brodie Croyle
2005 - Dustin Colquit
2004 - Keyaron Fox
2003 - Julian Battle
2001 - Eric Downing
2001 - Snoop Minnis
2000 - Greg Wesley
1999 - Gary Stills
1999 - Larry Atkins
1998 - Rashaan Shehee

Need I go on?

"We can't draft"

Really man just give up, teams that can't draft will never win anything. You are basically proving my argument for me though..

I also don't think some people in this thread study the draft or realize how deep it is when some of the statements I've seen.

Frazod
04-23-2008, 12:21 AM
I feel sick over this. :shake:

J Diddy
04-23-2008, 12:23 AM
This isn't an "attitude". This is just observation. Below is a list of all 3rd round picks we have taken in the last 10 years.

2007 - Tank Tyler
2006 - Brodie Croyle
2005 - Dustin Colquit
2004 - Keyaron Fox
2003 - Julian Battle
2001 - Eric Downing
2001 - Snoop Minnis
2000 - Greg Wesley
1999 - Gary Stills
1999 - Larry Atkins
1998 - Rashaan Shehee

Need I go on?

the last 2 are all that matter

the Talking Can
04-23-2008, 12:23 AM
christ people

if you're whining about our draft picks then Allen makes no difference....

we'll never draft enough good players, according to you stupid nihilists...

we have the best opportunity since Marty left to actually build a team...

you people are ****ing miserable

Chiefs Pantalones
04-23-2008, 12:23 AM
1) The only void on this team is a lack of a World Championship since '69.

2) If a guy doesn't want to be here and is going to cry about getting disrespected after this team was the only team that touched him in the draft despite his problems in college and after tow DUI's, let him go.

3) Get people in here who want to play and who want to win and who want to be here and be coached.

1. No shit.

2. He wants to get paid like every other star player, don't blame him for his whining. Carl is shit.

3. No one wants to play on a shitty assed ran team, I don't care who you are. The only way you can get someone to play for a team like the Chiefs is to a. draft them, b. pay them a lot of money. All we got going for us in that regard is drafting them, because we sure as hell don't want to pay them.

The Chiefs are always going to ****ing suck. It's just apart of life.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-23-2008, 12:23 AM
I feel sick over this. :shake:

Read the Gholston thread.

Mecca
04-23-2008, 12:24 AM
Read the Gholston thread.

Nah man Gholston isn't a dumb white country boy that wants to go drinkin all the time.

markk
04-23-2008, 12:26 AM
even if we kept allen, if you think we will never draft anyone who was good we will never improve from 4-12 anyway

Mecca
04-23-2008, 12:27 AM
Also Allen isn't worth the money he got without his off the field issues let alone with them, some of you guys are looking at this like Jared Allen is your best friend and not like he's a immature football player that brought this shit on himself.

wazu
04-23-2008, 12:28 AM
the last 2 are all that matter

I like both of those picks, actually. I liked the picks when they happened. But I wouldn't trade Jared Allen for both of them combined, or both of them combined plus Tamba Hali. Or both of them combined, plus Tamba Hali, plus Dwayne Bowe.

And I also don't believe they are all that matter. Two halfway decent years in a row that the jury are still out on is not enough to convince me that the promoted head of scouting who gave us all of the bonehead busts of the past is suddenly a draft wizard that warrants trading away a young superstar.

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 12:28 AM
1. No shit.

2. He wants to get paid like every other star player, don't blame him for his whining. Carl is shit.

3. No one wants to play on a shitty assed ran team, I don't care who you are. The only way you can get someone to play for a team like the Chiefs is to a. draft them, b. pay them a lot of money. All we got going for us in that regard is drafting them, because we sure as hell don't want to pay them.

The Chiefs are always going to ****ing suck. It's just apart of life.

Its starting to look like that. Its pretty tough being a Chiefs fan. I just dont see this as good. I am pretty upset about this. Well football upset. lol

the Talking Can
04-23-2008, 12:29 AM
1. No shit.

2. He wants to get paid like every other star player, don't blame him for his whining. Carl is shit.

3. No one wants to play on a shitty assed ran team, I don't care who you are. The only way you can get someone to play for a team like the Chiefs is to a. draft them, b. pay them a lot of money. All we got going for us in that regard is drafting them, because we sure as hell don't want to pay them.

The Chiefs are always going to ****ing suck. It's just apart of life.

Carl paid Waters, Shields, LJ, Gonzo, Priest (coming off an injury), Williams (when he sat out a year), Green, Wesley, etc...

all got their money, all had issues, all understood the negotiating process...

Allen got a DUI, got Suspended, and then cried like a baby and left when Carl wouldn't give him 30 Mill guaranteed the exact second he asked for it....

when is anyone going to hold this alcoholic 13 year old accountable for anything???

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-23-2008, 12:29 AM
Here are the third-round picks from the last ten years. Rebuild away.



Ok.

Bolded picks are very good players that can start on contending teams.

This is just from two draft classes, and I was very conservative in my grades.

2005 3 1 65 Frank Gore 49ers RB Miami (FL)
3 2 66 Oshiomogho Atogwe Rams DB Stanford
3 3 67 Charlie Frye Browns QB Akron
3 4 68 Courtney Roby Titans WR Indiana
3 5 69 Andrew Walter Raiders QB Arizona State
3 6 70 Channing Crowder Dolphins LB Florida
3 7 71 Alex Smith Buccaneers TE Stanford
3 8 72 Stanley Wilson Lions DB Stanford
3 9 73 Vernand Morency Texans RB Oklahoma State
3 10 74 Justin Tuck Giants DE Notre Dame
3 11 75 Eric Green Cardinals DB Virginia Tech
3 12 76 Karl Paymah Broncos DB Washington State
3 13 77 Ryan Moats Eagles RB Louisiana Tech
3 14 78 Kirk Morrison Raiders LB San Diego State
3 15 79 Evan Mathis Panthers G Alabama
3 16 80 Dustin Fox Vikings DB Ohio State
3 17 81 Richie Incognito Rams C Nebraska
3 18 82 Alfred Fincher Saints LB Connecticut
3 19 83 Chris Henry Bengals WR West Virginia
3 20 84 Ellis Hobbs Patriots DB Iowa State
3 21 85 David Greene Seahawks QB Georgia
3 22 86 Kevin Everett Bills TE Miami (FL)
3 23 87 Scott Starks Jaguars DB Wisconsin
3 24 88 Sione Pouha Jets DT Utah
3 25 89 Atiyyah Ellison Panthers DT Missouri
3 26 90 Jordan Beck Falcons LB Cal Poly
3 27 91 Chris Colmer Buccaneers T North Carolina State
3 28 92 Vincent Burns Colts DE Kentucky
3 29 93 Trai Essex Steelers T Northwestern
3 30 94 Adam Snyder 49ers G Oregon
3 31 95 Darryl Blackstock Cardinals LB Virginia
3 32 96 Brandon Jones Titans WR Oklahoma
3 33 97 Domonique Foxworth Broncos DB Maryland
3 34 98 Leroy Hill Seahawks LB Clemson
3 35 99 Dustin Colquitt Chiefs P Tennessee
3 36 100 Nick Kaczur Patriots G Toledo
3 37 101 Maurice Clarett Broncos RB Ohio State
2004 3 1 64 Darnell Dockett Cardinals DE Florida State
3 2 65 Nate Kaeding Chargers K Iowa
3 3 66 Nick Hardwick Chargers C Purdue
3 4 67 Stuart Schweigert Raiders DB Purdue
3 5 68 Ben Hartsock Colts TE Ohio State
3 6 69 Gilbert Gardner Colts LB Purdue
3 7 70 Joey Thomas Packers DB Montana State
3 8 71 Randy Starks Titans DT Maryland
3 9 72 Donnell Washington Packers DT Clemson
3 10 73 Keith Smith Lions DB McNeese State
3 11 74 Tim Anderson Bills DT Ohio State
3 12 75 Max Starks Steelers T Florida
3 13 76 Derrick Strait Jets DB Oklahoma
3 14 77 Derrick Hamilton 49ers WR Clemson
3 15 78 Bernard Berrian Bears WR Fresno State
3 16 79 Marquis Cooper Buccaneers LB Washington
3 17 80 Caleb Miller Bengals LB Arkansas
3 18 81 Chris Cooley Redskins TE Utah State
3 19 82 Devard Darling Ravens WR Washington State
3 20 83 Stephen Peterman Cowboys G Louisiana State
3 21 84 Sean Locklear Seahawks G North Carolina State
3 22 85 Jeremy LeSueur Broncos DB Michigan
3 23 86 Jorge Cordova Jaguars LB Nevada
3 24 87 B.J. Sander Packers P Ohio State
3 25 88 Darrion Scott Vikings DE Ohio State
3 26 89 Matt Ware Eagles DB UCLA
3 27 90 Matt Schaub Falcons QB Virginia
3 28 91 Tony Hargrove Rams DE Georgia Tech
3 29 92 Rich Gardner Titans DB Penn State
3 30 93 Keyaron Fox Chiefs LB Georgia Tech
3 31 94 Travelle Wharton Panthers T South Carolina
3 32 95 Guss Scott Patriots DB Florida
3 33 96 Landon Johnson Bengals LB Purdue

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 12:29 AM
Also Allen isn't worth the money he got without his off the field issues let alone with them, some of you guys are looking at this like Jared Allen is your best friend and not like he's a immature football player that brought this shit on himself.

i could care less about Allen the person. He has never did shit for me personally. I still think it was freaking stupid to trade him. He may not be worth it, but **** it, i dont write the checks. That part does not concern me. I just dont think you get rid of your best player for a question mark. Shit is just like lets make a deal, whats behind door number 1.?? we dont ****ing know.

wazu
04-23-2008, 12:29 AM
Also Allen isn't worth the money he got without his off the field issues let alone with them, some of you guys are looking at this like Jared Allen is your best friend and not like he's a immature football player that brought this shit on himself.

I don't feel one bit sorry for Jared Allen. He's not my best friend. I just like seeing the Chiefs win, and I believe having an unstoppable pass-rushing fiend at DE helps that cause.

J Diddy
04-23-2008, 12:29 AM
1. No shit.

2. He wants to get paid like every other star player, don't blame him for his whining. Carl is shit.

3. No one wants to play on a shitty assed ran team, I don't care who you are. The only way you can get someone to play for a team like the Chiefs is to a. draft them, b. pay them a lot of money. All we got going for us in that regard is drafting them, because we sure as hell don't want to pay them.

The Chiefs are always going to ****ing suck. It's just apart of life.


so you think that we should have given a guy a 70 million dollar contract, 30 of which was guaranteed who went on record saying he didn't want to be here and would never sign a long term contract if it wasn't done by july

as well as that whole he just bought a ****ing bar, and he's 1 dui or any other bad boy offense from being suspended

all the mean while trying to replinish a bad team's roster

i think you're steadman

Mecca
04-23-2008, 12:31 AM
Hamas even being conservative you should bold Frank Gore...

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 12:32 AM
so you think that we should have given a guy a 70 million dollar contract, 30 of which was guaranteed who went on record saying he didn't want to be here and would never sign a long term contract if it wasn't done by july

as well as that whole he just bought a ****ing bar, and he's 1 dui or any other bad boy offense from being suspended

all the mean while trying to replinish a bad team's roster

i think you're steadmanThat first part is just all business talk. Its all bullshit. He said he liked it in KC over and over again.

Frazod
04-23-2008, 12:32 AM
Read the Gholston thread.

Works for me. I just hate letting go of a proven commodity.

I also hope Carl doesn't f#ck up negotiations. Christ, we'll have TWO first rounders we need to get to camp on time.

*shudder*

:eek:

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 12:33 AM
I don't feel one bit sorry for Jared Allen. He's not my best friend. I just like seeing the Chiefs win, and I believe having an unstoppable pass-rushing fiend at DE helps that cause.What are you always told? Winning games starts in the trenches. Well thats where he ****ing plays and we just weaken that area? Maybe he he was about 29-30 years old, but he's only 26.

J Diddy
04-23-2008, 12:35 AM
That first part is just all business talk. Its all bullshit. He said he liked it in KC over and over again.


yep he liked it so much he looked over at the neighbors wife

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-23-2008, 12:36 AM
Hamas even being conservative you should bold Frank Gore...

I thought I did.

He's a top 8 back.

Mr. Flopnuts
04-23-2008, 12:37 AM
Hamas even being conservative you should bold Frank Gore...

I'd say Max Starks too.

Rausch
04-23-2008, 12:40 AM
Works for me. I just hate letting go of a proven commodity.

I also hope Carl doesn't f#ck up negotiations. Christ, we'll have TWO first rounders we need to get to camp on time.

*shudder*

:eek:

These are the types of problems I can deal with.

At least we won't be trading one of them for the Niners/Rams b/u QB this year...

the Talking Can
04-23-2008, 12:42 AM
I'd say Max Starks too.

and Chris Henry
and Darnell Docket

Rausch
04-23-2008, 12:43 AM
No one says we have to stand pat with the thirds. We have enough picks to move up. Hell, we could have three 1st round picks by the time the Chiefs are on the clock...

wazu
04-23-2008, 12:43 AM
At least we won't be trading one of them for the Niners/Rams b/u QB this year...

I agree completely on this. I don't think we should trade away our picks. Just don't give up our young superstars!

There is just no balance at all with this organization. Sell out everything for offense with one coach, sell out everything for defense with the next. Mortgage the future for free agents with one coach, cut ties with our best young player with the next. It's a world of extremes with the Chiefs. "Rebuilding? OMG let's get rid of everybody and bring in 13 rookies!" Just the latest flailing in a pattern of team management that always looks like desperation.

Rain Man
04-23-2008, 12:44 AM
Ok.

Bolded picks are very good players that can start on contending teams.

This is just from two draft classes, and I was very conservative in my grades.



You picked 14 players out of 70, and I don't think any were pro bowlers. (Maybe Cooley?)

For two 3rd rounders, that translates into:

4% chance of getting 2 starters
32% chance of getting 1 starter.
64% chance of getting 0 starters

Mr. Flopnuts
04-23-2008, 12:45 AM
Works for me. I just hate letting go of a proven commodity.

I also hope Carl doesn't f#ck up negotiations. Christ, we'll have TWO first rounders we need to get to camp on time.

*shudder*

:eek:

If we get Dorsey AND Chris Williams, or Gholston, or Ellis and Chris Williams. We're gonna be in good shape IMO. Then 2 more 3rds to see what else happens.

DaWolf
04-23-2008, 01:00 AM
While the third rounder history may not be spectacular for us, the only thing that matters is what Herm's current regime comes up with. It may continue to suck or it may be great. We'll see. Jury is still out on Herm's prior thirds.

And let's not forget that Jared Allen was had in the fourth round. So it's not like good players aren't there for the taking. Our damn scouts just better be on the ball this year (and next) if we're going to get winning players out of this.

The other thing is that we don't necessarily have to stay in the third with this trade. It gives us ammo to move up back to the second round if we need, or even up from 17...

Rausch
04-23-2008, 01:05 AM
The other thing is that we don't necessarily have to stay in the third with this trade. It gives us ammo to move up back to the second round if we need, or even up from 17...

Hell, from round 2 to round 1. I know the idea is to accumualte picks but if you can manage 3 1st rounders...damn...:)

Manila-Chief
04-23-2008, 01:26 AM
God I love how people bitch because we traded a guy who was ONE STRIKE away from being suspended for awhile.

Take the picks and draft people who WANT to be here.

And Kingless will make those he drafts mad and they will leave as well.

Now, what player will we be able to get at #17 that will be the equal of Allen?

I think it is stupid mistake. Kingless will have to pay the 5th. pick almost the amount Allen received ... and who knows if the drafted players will produce or not???

With that said ... I'm okay with the trade ... it will most likely help us lose more games and thus cause Clark to clean house. Or, it will just be out luck for all these draft choices to help us get back to 9-7 ... just enough to allow Carl/Herm to hang around but not good enough to win a championship. Allen is an excellent player. But, these are our Chiefs!!!!!

dirk digler
04-23-2008, 01:31 AM
Wow this kind of sucks. I wish JA well and I wish he could have stayed here but those 3 picks can come in handy this weekend.

It will definitely be an interesting draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-23-2008, 01:49 AM
You picked 14 players out of 70, and I don't think any were pro bowlers. (Maybe Cooley?)

For two 3rd rounders, that translates into:

4% chance of getting 2 starters
32% chance of getting 1 starter.
64% chance of getting 0 starters

Stick to making long polls.

I was very conservative. It's probably closer to 20.

And for the record, five Pro Bowlers out of that group.

DaneMcCloud
04-23-2008, 01:53 AM
And Kingless will make those he drafts mad and they will leave as well.

Now, what player will we be able to get at #17 that will be the equal of Allen?

I think it is stupid mistake. Kingless will have to pay the 5th. pick almost the amount Allen received ... and who knows if the drafted players will produce or not???

With that said ... I'm okay with the trade ... it will most likely help us lose more games and thus cause Clark to clean house. Or, it will just be out luck for all these draft choices to help us get back to 9-7 ... just enough to allow Carl/Herm to hang around but not good enough to win a championship. Allen is an excellent player. But, these are our Chiefs!!!!!

Uh, this is circular logic.

At first, you say this is a stupid mistake. Then you say you're okay with it.

Which is it?

FTR, it was a GREAT trade for the Chiefs. The Chiefs get an additional first round talent to address the offensive or defensive line AND they get more ammunition to move up or stay put for more players in the third.

AND they don't have the burden of an unhappy player who's one strike away from missing an entire season of football. Oh, and while he's in his prime.

Win. Win. Win.

DaneMcCloud
04-23-2008, 01:55 AM
I agree completely on this. I don't think we should trade away our picks. Just don't give up our young superstars!

There is just no balance at all with this organization. Sell out everything for offense with one coach, sell out everything for defense with the next. Mortgage the future for free agents with one coach, cut ties with our best young player with the next. It's a world of extremes with the Chiefs. "Rebuilding? OMG let's get rid of everybody and bring in 13 rookies!" Just the latest flailing in a pattern of team management that always looks like desperation.

Um, when you hire a coach, you sell out for his philosophy.

It happens EVERYWHERE and in every city in the NFL.

Sorry you don't like it :rolleyes:

Logical
04-23-2008, 02:04 AM
Dayum 13 draft pick, 6 on the first day. It will take a Herculean effort by Carl to completely f*ck this up. Basically he has to pick 1 pro-bowl quality player and one quality everydown starter along with 1 so so starter to exceed expectations for the Chiefs.

At least at the end of the day we will have a lot of fighting amongst ourselves.:evil:

Logical
04-23-2008, 02:07 AM
Um, when you hire a coach, you sell out for his philosophy.

It happens EVERYWHERE and in every city in the NFL.

Sorry you don't like it :rolleyes:

In fairness Adam has a point about the extremes. Weird thing is I thought we were selling out for defense, now we have turned that applecart over as well.

Ultra Peanut
04-23-2008, 02:34 AM
Carl paid Waters, Shields, LJ, Gonzo, Priest (coming off an injury), Williams (when he sat out a year), Green, Wesley, etc...

all got their money, all had issues, all understood the negotiating process...

Allen got a DUI, got Suspended, and then cried like a baby and left when Carl wouldn't give him 30 Mill guaranteed the exact second he asked for it....

when is anyone going to hold this alcoholic 13 year old accountable for anything???As long as there are idiots like the Vikings out there willing to pay him more than Dwight ****ing Freeney, probably never.

Jayhawkerman2001
04-23-2008, 03:44 AM
i dont know what to say... I just dont know what to say... This has got to be one of the dumbest moves this organization has ever made... **** the chiefs, **** carl peterson and **** the hunts man... **** em!!

DaneMcCloud
04-23-2008, 04:26 AM
i dont know what to say... I just dont know what to say... This has got to be one of the dumbest moves this organization has ever made... **** the chiefs, **** carl peterson and **** the hunts man... **** em!!

And finally, the leader of the peanut gallery arrives.

Glad you could make it :shake:

PS - Hey dumbf*ck, it's Colombia, not Columbia

KC_Connection
04-23-2008, 04:29 AM
For purposes of rebuilding, which is what this team should have been doing for a while now, this is a fantastic trade.

Warrior5
04-23-2008, 04:55 AM
No one says we have to stand pat with the thirds. We have enough picks to move up. Hell, we could have three 1st round picks by the time the Chiefs are on the clock...

Exactly... a lot can happen in the next 3 days.

Warrior5
04-23-2008, 05:00 AM
Dayum 13 draft pick, 6 on the first day. It will take a Herculean effort by Carl to completely f*ck this up. Basically he has to pick 1 pro-bowl quality player and one quality everydown starter along with 1 so so starter to exceed expectations for the Chiefs.

At least at the end of the day we will have a lot of fighting amongst ourselves.:evil:

After watching this near melt-down with the Allen trade, I'll be sure to have plenty of popcorn ready for Saturday

It won't matter who the Chiefs pick; someone's going to go into Tourette's mode. Should be entertaining...

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 05:59 AM
This isn't a wonderful trade. This is a stupid trade, but oh well. Its done.

rad
04-23-2008, 06:40 AM
You're a moron.

If Jared Allen is so great and carries no risk with his off the field behavior, why did we only get an offer from ONE of the other THIRTY-ONE teams in the league?

It says a lot about his perceived value around the league.

NO ONE ELSE thought he was worth more than a 1st/3rd.

Take the homer glasses off.


Because he didn't get a chance to visit any other teams?

That's like saying "I picked up the hottest bitch at the bar last night" and she was the only girl IN the bar.....

Tell your mom I said hi....

Rain Man
04-23-2008, 07:28 AM
Stick to making long polls.

I was very conservative. It's probably closer to 20.

And for the record, five Pro Bowlers out of that group.


Okay, go with 20 out of 70. The odds of getting 2 starters with the third-round picks goes up to 8%, 1 starter to 41%, and 0 starters to 51%.

5 pro bowlers? The odds of getting 2 pro bowlers with the third round picks is 0.5% (1 in 200), the odds of getting 1 pro bowler is 13%, and the odds of getting 0 pro bowlers is 86%.

Now add in the 100% chance that we lost 1 pro bowler/starter already, and the well-less-than 100% chance that our 17th pick will turn into a multi-year starter, and I'll consider us very lucky to break even.

I hope we beat the odds. I really do. But I think some people enjoy the draft so much that they've convinced themselves that everyone in the top X rounds is NFL talent, and that's simply not the case. Unless this draft is some magical once-in-a-hundred-lifetimes exception, most of the third-round picks will run down a few punts and then go sell cars for a living.

nychief
04-23-2008, 07:33 AM
was I the only one that observed our utter lack of talent last year? I love JA but he is one player, we simply had to up grade our over all talent just to be able to compete. This is a sad day, for sure... but, this was a necessary evil.

Que Card QB
04-23-2008, 07:35 AM
Medlock 2.

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 07:38 AM
was I the only one that observed our utter lack of talent last year? I love JA but he is one player, we simply had to up grade our over all talent just to be able to compete. This is a sad day, for sure... but, this was a necessary evil.

Pretty much. I love the type of player JA is and his production, but once you resign yourself to the fact that he did not want to be here we received excellent compensation. We have 7 picks in the top 101 selections - drafting well can really improve this team immediately.

Skip Towne
04-23-2008, 08:17 AM
Do the Insiders at WPI have any idea?

Goatse is an insider at WPI. Does that answer your question?

NY CHIEF
04-23-2008, 08:28 AM
Hey anyone that does not want to be here bye bye...... I think carl did a great job considering JA is a few drinks away from not playing :clap:

penguinz
04-23-2008, 08:32 AM
Goatse is an insider at WPI. Does that answer your question?Nice :thumb:

BigChiefFan
04-23-2008, 08:37 AM
Carl really did a good job of pulling the wool over some people's eyes. I keep hearing JA didn't want to be here-everything I've heard says he WANTED to be here-this is all about Carl's ego being challenged so he ships JA out-nothing more.

Count Alex's Wins
04-23-2008, 08:48 AM
Who wants to bet me that the three guys we draft will go to more pro bowls than Allen? I'll take Allen, you get the three draft picks.

Super Bowl > Pro Bowl

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2008, 08:50 AM
Because he didn't get a chance to visit any other teams?

That's like saying "I picked up the hottest bitch at the bar last night" and she was the only girl IN the bar.....

Tell your mom I said hi....

Does he have to visit to have compensation offered?

Nope.

The fact that Minnesota CALLED PETERSON and expressed interest in the form of a compensation offer is what got Allen's ass on a plane to Minnesota.

He was supposed to be in Tampa on Monday, yet he wasn't - on Monday OR Tuesday.

Could it be that his agent told him not to bother because they hadn't offered anything better than what the Vikings had?

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2008, 08:53 AM
Carl really did a good job of pulling the wool over some people's eyes. I keep hearing JA didn't want to be here-everything I've heard says he WANTED to be here-this is all about Carl's ego being challenged so he ships JA out-nothing more.


Speaking of wool over the eyes.....

Jared Allen didn't want to be here LAST YEAR.

This is the SECOND time he's requested to be traded.


4 DWI's?

Nah, he's going to change.

2 requests to be traded?

Nah, he really wants to be here.


People are letting their hate for Peterson get in the way of common ****ing sense.

markk
04-23-2008, 08:56 AM
Super Bowl > Pro Bowl

now there is a good post

BigChiefFan
04-23-2008, 08:57 AM
Speaking of wool over the eyes.....

Jared Allen didn't want to be here LAST YEAR.

This is the SECOND time he's requested to be traded.


4 DWI's?

Nah, he's going to change.

2 requests to be traded?

Nah, he really wants to be here.


People are letting their hate for Peterson get in the way of common ****ing sense. The request of the trade was to force carl to address him-Carl got egg on his face, so his ego won out. Look, I'm glad we got something in return, but I don't buy all the crap that he didn't want to be here. That's a MYTH.

Chiefnj2
04-23-2008, 09:00 AM
Carl really did a good job of pulling the wool over some people's eyes. I keep hearing JA didn't want to be here-everything I've heard says he WANTED to be here-this is all about Carl's ego being challenged so he ships JA out-nothing more.

He didn't want to be in KC last year, but yet he attended all voluntary workouts, etc.

StcChief
04-23-2008, 09:04 AM
time well tell if we can draft well enough and get another DE of his player caliber.

Chiefnj2
04-23-2008, 09:10 AM
The next few days and months will unfold as follows:

Wed - Fri : Acceptance of the trade. Lots of excitement with the extra picks in the draft.

Sat - Sun: Anger at the horrible draft choices.

Mon - August: Acceptance of the draft picks (except the 5th pick who is holding out - he's a greedy SOB) and rationalization of various reaches taken by Herm and Carl. "The more I read about Benjamin Winesapp the more I like him. His numbers were better than Gholston's against Akron. I think Herm found a diamond in the rough."

Sept - Dec: Anger. "Winesapp sucks ass. At least we'll have a top 10 pick this year. That'll turn things around."

wazu
04-24-2008, 06:48 PM
The next few days and months will unfold as follows:

Wed - Fri : Acceptance of the trade. Lots of excitement with the extra picks in the draft.

Sat - Sun: Anger at the horrible draft choices.

Mon - August: Acceptance of the draft picks (except the 5th pick who is holding out - he's a greedy SOB) and rationalization of various reaches taken by Herm and Carl. "The more I read about Benjamin Winesapp the more I like him. His numbers were better than Gholston's against Akron. I think Herm found a diamond in the rough."

Sept - Dec: Anger. "Winesapp sucks ass. At least we'll have a top 10 pick this year. That'll turn things around."

Perfect.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 06:54 PM
Okay, go with 20 out of 70. The odds of getting 2 starters with the third-round picks goes up to 8%, 1 starter to 41%, and 0 starters to 51%.

5 pro bowlers? The odds of getting 2 pro bowlers with the third round picks is 0.5% (1 in 200), the odds of getting 1 pro bowler is 13%, and the odds of getting 0 pro bowlers is 86%.

Now add in the 100% chance that we lost 1 pro bowler/starter already, and the well-less-than 100% chance that our 17th pick will turn into a multi-year starter, and I'll consider us very lucky to break even.

I hope we beat the odds. I really do. But I think some people enjoy the draft so much that they've convinced themselves that everyone in the top X rounds is NFL talent, and that's simply not the case. Unless this draft is some magical once-in-a-hundred-lifetimes exception, most of the third-round picks will run down a few punts and then go sell cars for a living.

Dude, almost half of those guys are starter quality.


I really want you to break this down mathematically:

Let's say that everyone drafted in the first two rounds is starter quality. That means each team gets 2 starters every year on average. Now, the average life for an NFL player is about 4 years, but we'll go with 6 just to help you out.

You've gotten 12 starters out of 22 in six years, and half of them are on the downside of their life expectancy.

Where the hell else do you think those other players will come from??

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 07:03 PM
How many 1st rounders do the Colts have??

8. And they draft better than anyone.


Ryan Diem was a 4th Rounder, Ugoh a mid-2nd rounder, Lilja was a scrap heap player, Saturday was undrafted, Raheem Brock was a 7th rounder, Robert Mathis was a 5th rounder, Gary Brackett was undrafted, Freddie Keiaho was a 3rd rounder, Antoine Bethea was a 6th rounder, Bob Sanders was a 2nd rounder.


Why don't you look and see where the Chargers got Gates, Vincent Jackson, Shaun Phillips, Jamaal Williams, Olshansky, McNeil, and Nick Hardwick.

They are all impact players and none of them were 1st rounders.

ChiefaRoo
04-24-2008, 07:05 PM
Who is this Jared Allen guy everyone is talking about?

MTG#10
04-24-2008, 07:24 PM
Who is this Jared Allen guy everyone is talking about?
Some redneck that looks queer in purple.

ChiefaRoo
04-24-2008, 07:44 PM
Some redneck that looks queer in purple.


Yee Haw!!! WINE 'EM, DINE 'EM.......

KChiefsQT
04-24-2008, 08:43 PM
No more Jared Allen fantasies... :(
Another KC Jersey of mine gone down in flames.... :(
No more rodeo round up... :(
Geez, probably no more Sacks either... :(
Boo.... :(

Skip Towne
04-24-2008, 08:46 PM
Who is this Jared Allen guy everyone is talking about?

He's the guy you called a big, dumb cowboy.

J Diddy
04-24-2008, 09:29 PM
The request of the trade was to force carl to address him-Carl got egg on his face, so his ego won out. Look, I'm glad we got something in return, but I don't buy all the crap that he didn't want to be here. That's a MYTH.


dude

he said, not his agent, I love the fans but I think it's time for me to move on

He said that during the season

Rain Man
04-24-2008, 09:36 PM
Dude, almost half of those guys are starter quality.


I really want you to break this down mathematically:

Let's say that everyone drafted in the first two rounds is starter quality. That means each team gets 2 starters every year on average. Now, the average life for an NFL player is about 4 years, but we'll go with 6 just to help you out.

You've gotten 12 starters out of 22 in six years, and half of them are on the downside of their life expectancy.

Where the hell else do you think those other players will come from??


The starters come from the fact that some proportion of players in each round become starters. Some proportion - far less than 100 percent.

If you trade a starter for someone who might be a starter, you will at best break even on a pure numbers basis, and the odds are that you will lose.

You went through that list of third-rounders and told me how many were starters. (I think that was you - someone did.)

You get starters by having a bunch of picks and playing the odds. It's free to play the odds when you don't have to give up anything for the picks, so every year every team gets seven free pulls on the draft slot machine. (The Broncos get more since they always get compensatory picks for cheating.)

Everyone wins when the slot machine pulls are free. In our case, we had to pay to get three pulls on the slot machine. The odds tell us that we'll lose. Maybe we'll beat the odds and win, but the odds are clearly against us.

Rain Man
04-24-2008, 09:40 PM
Dude, almost half of those guys are starter quality.


I really want you to break this down mathematically:

Let's say that everyone drafted in the first two rounds is starter quality. That means each team gets 2 starters every year on average. Now, the average life for an NFL player is about 4 years, but we'll go with 6 just to help you out.

You've gotten 12 starters out of 22 in six years, and half of them are on the downside of their life expectancy.

Where the hell else do you think those other players will come from??

One other note: the average career of a starter is notably longer than the average NFL career. Starters last a lot longer because teams can't draft anyone better, so they can extend their careers. This means that a starter is worth more.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:59 PM
One other note: the average career of a starter is notably longer than the average NFL career. Starters last a lot longer because teams can't draft anyone better, so they can extend their careers. This means that a starter is worth more.

I don't know how many times you'll hear it uttered, but it rings true again: the bulk of every successful team is built in rounds 2-5. This isn't Major League Baseball. Draft picks hit far more often and are much less risky (although they still carry some risk) than they do in other sports.

Some of the guys I didn't embolden were guys like Landon Johnson, who averaged over 100 tackles a year, Sean Locklear, who is one of the best lineman for the Seahawks, Bernard Berrian, Max Starks, Stu Schweigart, Alex Smith, Eric Green, Trai Essex, Leroy Hill, and guys like Brandon Jones and Ryan Moats are contributors.

ChiefaRoo
04-24-2008, 10:03 PM
He's the guy you called a big, dumb cowboy.


;) hi skip, you old dog. It's been awhile.

Just for the record, I like cowboys but I hate dumb.

sedated
04-24-2008, 10:06 PM
No more Jared Allen fantasies... :(

I've had dreams of his sacks too

Count Alex's Wins
02-14-2009, 04:01 PM
The last few days, this has really begun to sink in. Allen finally feels like the past. No longer a part of the franchise. It feels SHITTY.

:)

JuicesFlowing
02-14-2009, 04:03 PM
Why don't you bump the first ever CP thread?

unothadeal
02-14-2009, 04:10 PM
Worst.

Thread.

Ever.

Ultra Peanut
02-14-2009, 04:29 PM
This was a p. good trade.

Count Alex's Wins
02-14-2009, 04:32 PM
We traded Allen, Carl and Herm as it turned out. I'll take it.

JASONSAUTO
02-14-2009, 04:33 PM
WTF

unothadeal
02-14-2009, 04:44 PM
.

DJ's left nut
02-14-2009, 06:03 PM
And finally, the leader of the peanut gallery arrives.

Glad you could make it :shake:

PS - Hey dumbf*ck, it's Colombia, not Columbia


No, dumbf*ck, Colombia is the country in South America, Columbia is the city in Missouri.

Random bumps are fun.

Count Alex's Wins
04-11-2009, 06:53 PM
Missing Jared.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ugONWUI4JNQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ugONWUI4JNQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Could he play 3-4 OLB?

Hog Farmer
04-11-2009, 06:55 PM
Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kyle DeLexus
04-11-2009, 06:57 PM
Man me 3

CupidStunt
04-11-2009, 07:34 PM
No, dumbf*ck, Colombia is the country in South America, Columbia is the city in Missouri.

Random bumps are fun.

:LOL:

Tiger's Fan
04-11-2009, 07:43 PM
No, dumbf*ck, Colombia is the country in South America, Columbia is the city in Missouri.

Random bumps are fun.

Thats classic shit right there.

Ari Chi3fs
10-05-2009, 11:16 PM
saddest thread ever.

Sure-Oz
10-05-2009, 11:18 PM
Hes had like 3 duis since this trade

OctoberFart
10-07-2009, 03:53 PM
I bet this thread is full of all sorts of rationalization.

Pablo
10-07-2009, 03:57 PM
You fucking dick.

CoMoChief
10-07-2009, 04:09 PM
ROFL who bumped this ....cough Ari?!?!....cough

Chiefnj2
10-07-2009, 04:18 PM
That's not even one of the best ones to bump. Someone had a poll asking if the trade was good and only 12 people really disagreed with the trade.

I also like the fact that the myth still exists that Allen didn't want to be in KC. KC never even attempted to sign him long term. Damn retards.

"But Peterson downplayed talk that he and Allen had a tense relationship or any kind of clash. Peterson said he and Chiefs vice president Denny Thum met with Allen but that there were no negotiations.

“There was nothing at that particular time that was on the table. Sometimes, it takes a little time for those things to happen,” Peterson said. “It was still our plan to work on a multi-year contract for Jared.”

“He’s never said to me, ‘Carl, I’ll never play as a Kansas City Chief,’ ” Peterson said. “Maybe he told you (reporters). Maybe he told Herm (Edwards). But he’s never told me that.”"

Fritz88
10-07-2009, 04:21 PM
Good luck JA.