PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Props to CP!!! We essentially got 2 1st rounders for JA!


DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 05:37 AM
We received the Vikings 1st round pick #17 overall and BOTH of their 3rd round picks (#73 and #82).

Now, follow along here:

If you take the draft value chart, the combined value of the two 3rd round picks is 405 pts which is equivalent to the #17 or #18 pick in the 2nd round this year.

Now, a 1st round pick NEXT YEAR (2009) is equivalent to a 2nd round pick THIS YEAR (2008), meaning the #17 or #18 pick in the 2nd round is equivalent to the #17 or #18 pick overall in 2009.

Strictly from a draft value chart standard, we received the #17 overall pick in 2008 and the #17 or #18 pick overall in 2009.

Just giving credit where credit is due, and we are in great position now (if our draft board is setup correctly - a big if) to get SEVEN (7) of the top 100 players in the draft.

:)

Tuckdaddy
04-23-2008, 05:48 AM
This was good for us. Allen is a risky investment. We will be able to load up on talent.

Fruit Ninja
04-23-2008, 05:52 AM
Doesn't deserve any ****ing props. Booo freaking boo for this trade.

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 05:56 AM
Doesn't deserve any ****ing props. Booo freaking boo for this trade.

The guy didn't want to be here. He wouldn't sign a long term contract. As Herm would say "GET OVER IT!" CP was able to trade a guy who didn't want to be here and is now the highest paid defensive player in the league for the value of 2 1st round picks. Three additional players in the top 82 picks of a deep draft is another shot of B12 for a rebuilding team.

bkkcoh
04-23-2008, 05:59 AM
The guy didn't want to be here. He wouldn't sign a long term contract. As Herm would say "GET OVER IT!" CP was able to trade a guy who didn't want to be here and is now the highest paid defensive player in the league for the value of 2 1st round picks. Three additional players in the top 82 picks of a deep draft is another shot of B12 for a rebuilding team.

We got something from him and he wasn't a cancer in the locker room.

On top of it all, we don't have to worry about JA getting another DUI or doing something stupid and receiving a 1 year suspension!!!! :banghead:

bkkcoh
04-23-2008, 06:00 AM
This was good for us. Allen is a risky investment. We will be able to load up on talent.

Now if CP isn't realing doing the drafting in KC we will be in better shape!!!!

Otter
04-23-2008, 06:16 AM
Carl's a loser, screw him.

Congrats to JA, he may see a Super Bowl now and is rich to boot.

The Poz
04-23-2008, 06:18 AM
The guy didn't want to be here. He wouldn't sign a long term contract. As Herm would say "GET OVER IT!" CP was able to trade a guy who didn't want to be here and is now the highest paid defensive player in the league for the value of 2 1st round picks. Three additional players in the top 82 picks of a deep draft is another shot of B12 for a rebuilding team.
I wouldn't be praising Carl here, he was the reason why the best DE in the game wanted out in the first place. He should have extented his contract right after the commish announced his 2 game suspension - could have gotten fair value then.
The way I see it, when you have studs on the O or D line, you don't run them out of town thinking they will be easily replaced through the draft.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with what we got for him in this trade, I just wish it shouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place - thanks Carl, you dink.

Fairplay
04-23-2008, 06:19 AM
I hate to see Jared go. He was the best we had on our defense no question.

Things change, people move on for whatever reasons. The NFL is a business. Don't take it personal.

I think we got the best deal we could really ask for in my humble opinion.

What it really comes down to is what players we draft. That can only be answered in another year or two i think.

This will be a very interesting draft day.

This might make a few people mad but i say trade down a few spots, still be able to pick up Clady and get another two picks, oh yeah!!

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 06:25 AM
I wouldn't be praising Carl here, he was the reason why the best DE in the game wanted out in the first place. He should have extented his contract right after the commish announced his 2 game suspension - could have gotten fair value then.
The way I see it, when you have studs on the O or D line, you don't run them out of town thinking they will be easily replaced through the draft.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with what we got for him in this trade, I just wish it shouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place - thanks Carl, you dink.

True, it is partly CP's doing that Allen did not want to remain here. However, I can understand WHY CP would be somewhat hesitant to give a guy $72 million the same year he's getting punished for his 2nd DUI.

However, what's done is done there and if you look at it as what it's been this entire year - Allen wanted out - CP did a great job at getting excellent compensation.

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 06:27 AM
This might make a few people mad but i say trade down a few spots, still be able to pick up Clady and get another two picks, oh yeah!!

No thanks. We have 13 picks and need to get a top-5 player. If we want someone in the 12-15 range I'd rather we traded UP from #17 than DOWN from #5.

Dave Lane
04-23-2008, 06:29 AM
Its a pipe dream to say this is the same as 2 1st. I'd rather have 2 3rd than one 2nd based on the curse of the 2nd rounder for the Chiefs.

Dave

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 06:30 AM
Its a pipe dream to say this is the same as 2 1st. I'd rather have 2 3rd than one 2nd based on the curse of the 2nd rounder for the Chiefs.

Dave

It's not a pipe dream. Going strictly by the NFL draft value chart the #73 and #82 picks this year are equivalent to the #17 or #18 overall pick next year.

Chiefnj2
04-23-2008, 06:40 AM
It's not a pipe dream. Going strictly by the NFL draft value chart the #73 and #82 picks this year are equivalent to the #17 or #18 overall pick next year.

Nobody will give you their 1st in 2009 for two thirds.

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 06:45 AM
Nobody will give you their 1st in 2009 for two thirds.

Straight up? No. However, you can package those two 3rds to move up into the 2nd round - and teams have traded next year's 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick.

patteeu
04-23-2008, 06:47 AM
I wouldn't be praising Carl here, he was the reason why the best DE in the game wanted out in the first place. He should have extented his contract right after the commish announced his 2 game suspension - could have gotten fair value then.
The way I see it, when you have studs on the O or D line, you don't run them out of town thinking they will be easily replaced through the draft.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with what we got for him in this trade, I just wish it shouldn't have gotten to this point in the first place - thanks Carl, you dink.

I don't think you can give all the credit to Carl for getting us to this point. JA deserves a good share of it. JA is the one how racked up a couple of DUIs. JA is the one who got pissy when the team refused to give him a major contract on the heals of a substance abuse suspension even though he still had a year left to play out on his contract. And JA is the one who showed up to the 101 banquet in a freaking tuxedo t-shirt, for goodness sake.

My preference would have been for the Chiefs and JA to work out a reasonable deal to keep JA in Chiefs red for a long time, but JA made the choice that he didn't want to be here.

CoMoChief
04-23-2008, 06:47 AM
If Matt Ryan is there at our pick we should consider trading down to BAL pick.

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 06:49 AM
Straight up? No. However, you can package those two 3rds to move up into the 2nd round - and teams have traded next year's 1st round pick for a 2nd round pick.

In fact, just last year Indy traded a 4th round pick and next year's (now 2008) 1st round pick for the 49ers 2nd round pick.

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 06:50 AM
I don't think you can give all the credit to Carl for getting us to this point. JA deserves a good share of it. JA is the one how racked up a couple of DUIs. JA is the one who got pissy when the team refused to give him a major contract on the heals of a substance abuse suspension even though he still had a year left to play out on his contract. And JA is the one who showed up to the 101 banquet in a freaking tuxedo t-shirt, for goodness sake.

My preference would have been for the Chiefs and JA to work out a reasonable deal to keep JA in Chiefs red for a long time, but JA made the choice that he didn't want to be here.

Absolutely. Both sides are responsible for how it transpired to this point, but once it got there CP made the best of it in the compensation received.

Fairplay
04-23-2008, 06:52 AM
No thanks. We have 13 picks and need to get a top-5 player. If we want someone in the 12-15 range I'd rather we traded UP from #17 than DOWN from #5.



Im actually looking at this through King Carls perspective.

(El cheapskate)

If he traded down it would mean less money to pay out. I don't really agree with this, but certainly would not put it past would him. Would you?

keg in kc
04-23-2008, 06:54 AM
No thanks. We have 13 picks and need to get a top-5 player. If we want someone in the 12-15 range I'd rather we traded UP from #17 than DOWN from #5.I'd like to see us stay at 5 and go DOWN from 17, if that's in any way possible.

alanm
04-23-2008, 06:59 AM
Don't tell me you actually believe that the Chiefs are going to somehow work this to their advantage?
They'll piss these picks away like they do every year. Likely drafting a bunch of camp fodder and over paid bench warmers. :banghead:

KCUnited
04-23-2008, 07:03 AM
Carl could've easily traded Allen for a 1st and a 3rd and think that he would have if the Vikes would've taking a harder stance. I think with this deal Carl can save face if we can get the Oline rebuilt. Not only did we get a 1st and 2 3rds and a better 6th, but if we can get the Oline rebuilt it gets us more bang for our buck with LJ and probably just prolonged his career by 2 years.

Rain Man
04-23-2008, 07:03 AM
I've never quite understood the logic of saying that a 2nd-round pick this year is equivalent to a 1st-round pick next year. Draft picks aren't like money; there's no inflation to dwindle a player's value. Other than the risk that the NFL will shut down, it's merely a decision between immediate gratification and delayed gratification.

I recognize that in 2008 it's nicer to have a player on the field right now, but from a big-picture perspective the goal is to put the best players on the field over a specific time period. In 2018, it will be nicer to have another guy on the field then.

Ask the Redskins and the Chargers if it really helped them when Bobby Beathard would acquire 2nd-round picks on draft day by trading his next year's 1st-round picks. I don't think it was a good idea.

Put another way, how many of you would trade our 1st round pick in 2016 for a 7th-round pick next week? I would hope that no one would.

HypnotizedMonkey
04-23-2008, 07:09 AM
Carl will get no gratitude from me. I don't think any number of draft picks could equal the talent level of Jared Allen... especially since you don't know who you're getting, and even if you DID know who you were getting, they could end up being a failure. We lost a TON of leadership in this deal. So what if he WAS problematic... he rebounded like a TRUE champion to turn his life around AND lead the league in sacks.

Call me hard-headed... but marquee players are what fill the seats.
I say PROPS to Carl for driving a marquee player out of town while setting the stage for it to happen again...
Carl... go ahead and run D-Bowe off too... he looks promising.

This move does make our inevitable #1 spot in next year's draft a bit more affordable, though... good thinking Carl. 4 years after he signs he will hate your a$$ and want to leave too!

Congrats to JA for successfully jumping from a sinking ship and getting his well-deserved payday. He will be missed on my side of the Chiefs Planet.

In closing... I'm picking the Vikings to win the SuperBowl this year... I might end up watching more of THEM than the Chiefs... for shame.

BigChiefFan
04-23-2008, 07:09 AM
So now we have even more holes to fill. I'm glad we got some value for him, but we won't be able to replace him with a player of equal value, so the team will be even worse, IMO.

TEX
04-23-2008, 07:10 AM
I've never quite understood the logic of saying that a 2nd-round pick this year is equivalent to a 1st-round pick next year. Draft picks aren't like money; there's no inflation to dwindle a player's value. Other than the risk that the NFL will shut down, it's merely a decision between immediate gratification and delayed gratification.

I recognize that in 2008 it's nicer to have a player on the field right now, but from a big-picture perspective the goal is to put the best players on the field over a specific time period. In 2018, it will be nicer to have another guy on the field then.

Ask the Redskins and the Chargers if it really helped them when Bobby Beathard would acquire 2nd-round picks on draft day by trading his next year's 1st-round picks. I don't think it was a good idea.

Put another way, how many of you would trade our 1st round pick in 2016 for a 7th-round pick next week? I would hope that no one would.

I'm with ya.
That being said, once things got to where they are with JA, I'm glad we got what we got THIS year.

chief52
04-23-2008, 07:13 AM
I've never quite understood the logic of saying that a 2nd-round pick this year is equivalent to a 1st-round pick next year. Draft picks aren't like money; there's no inflation to dwindle a player's value. Other than the risk that the NFL will shut down, it's merely a decision between immediate gratification and delayed gratification.

I recognize that in 2008 it's nicer to have a player on the field right now, but from a big-picture perspective the goal is to put the best players on the field over a specific time period. In 2018, it will be nicer to have another guy on the field then.

Ask the Redskins and the Chargers if it really helped them when Bobby Beathard would acquire 2nd-round picks on draft day by trading his next year's 1st-round picks. I don't think it was a good idea.

Put another way, how many of you would trade our 1st round pick in 2016 for a 7th-round pick next week? I would hope that no one would.

I have never understood it either. I think they got a good value for JA, but in no way did we get the value of 2 first rounders. Could those two third round choices be packaged to move up to a #1? No, you can not get someone to do that. You can read all you want in to a chart, the bottom line is will teams give you that value? The answer quite clearly is no...well, unless maybe you get Cerrano and Snyder of the Redskins on the line. No telling what dumb and dumber might do.

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 07:14 AM
I've never quite understood the logic of saying that a 2nd-round pick this year is equivalent to a 1st-round pick next year.

If you look at how teams trade picks that is how they're valued.

For example, the Colts traded a 2007 4th round pick and their 2008 1st round pick for a 2007 2nd round pick.

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 07:16 AM
I have never understood it either. I think they got a good value for JA, but in no way did we get the value of 2 first rounders. Could those two third round choices be packaged to move up to a #1? No, you can not get someone to do that. You can read all you want in to a chart, the bottom line is will teams give you that value? The answer quite clearly is no...well, unless maybe you get Cerrano and Snyder of the Redskins on the line. No telling what dumb and dumber might do.

You don't get it. It would take 2 trades. If you look at trades that happen EVERY SINGLE YEAR, teams have traded two 3rd round picks to move up to the 2nd round and teams trade NEXT YEAR's 1st round pick (and sometimes more) for a 2nd round pick.

It's not like I'm pulling this out of my ass, those two types of trades happen all the time.

chief52
04-23-2008, 07:17 AM
If you look at how teams trade picks that is how they're valued.

For example, the Colts traded a 2007 4th round pick and their 2008 1st round pick for a 2007 2nd round pick.

Who were they trading with? You act as though all choices in a specific round are equal. That is where your logic is flawed.

JBucc
04-23-2008, 07:24 AM
THe 7th rounder we got for Tynes is worth a 1st rounder in 2074! Way to go CArl!

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 07:25 AM
Who were they trading with? You act as though all choices in a specific round are equal. That is where your logic is flawed.

LMAO

Where the hell did I ever say that? I was saying the 2 3rd round picks this year are equal draft-trade value of the #17 or #18 pick next year, not any 1st round pick next year.

This how that trade worked out:

Colts received pick #42 (10th pick in 2nd round) (480 pts) and traded pick #126 (30th pick in 4th round) (46 pts) and 2008 first round pick which turned out to be #29 (640pts, but 320 since it's a year later).

The tricky part when dealing future picks is you don't know what position in the round that pick will be. If the Colts 1st round pick this year had been #15 the trade would have been equal value-wise. Higher and the 49ers get the advantage, lower and the Colts get it.

Dave Lane
04-23-2008, 07:29 AM
Put another way, how many of you would trade our 1st round pick in 2016 for a 7th-round pick next week? I would hope that no one would.

I'd trade a 7th now for a 1st then!

Dave

Rain Man
04-23-2008, 07:35 AM
If you look at how teams trade picks that is how they're valued.

For example, the Colts traded a 2007 4th round pick and their 2008 1st round pick for a 2007 2nd round pick.


Yeah, I recognize that it happens, but I think it's more a factor of other things than a "time value of draft picks" phenomenon.

My suspicion is that it happens for two reasons:

1. Some GM sees a guy that he just can't live without, and he thinks the guy is undervalued in the current round. If it's the fourth-round, and he's graded a guy as 2nd round talent, he's going to be glad to give up a 3rd next year to get him.

2. Some GM is desperate to fill a hole right now, while another GM has a more long-term perspective, in which case the first guy is paying a premium to get a pick now.

If it's true that there is a time value for draft picks, then there will always be a market for a trade if you provide a perceived good value. If I was in Carl Peterson's oily shoes, and I knew that I would never be fired in the short term no matter how badly I performed, I would do the following. (I'm making up the years, so you can put in whatever year is a fair trade according to "conventional wisdom".) I'm dead serious about this.

A. Every year, I would trade my 7th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 10 years from now.

B. Every year, I would trade my 6th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 8 years from now.

C. Every year, I would trade my 5th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 6 years from now.

D. Every year, I would trade my 4th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 4 years from now.

E. Every year, I would trade my 3rd-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 2 years from now.

F. Every year, I would trade my 2nd-round draft pick for a 1st round pick the following year.

Your team would probably not fare overly well for a few years, but once you got the system up and running, you would enter every single season with 7 first-round draft picks. If there really is a time value to draft picks, this system is guaranteed to work.

Tuckdaddy
04-23-2008, 07:36 AM
Don't tell me you actually believe that the Chiefs are going to somehow work this to their advantage?
They'll piss these picks away like they do every year. Likely drafting a bunch of camp fodder and over paid bench warmers. :banghead:

WTF? Herm has had good drafts not bad ones. Did I miss the year where Allen led us to the SB? I would have loved to keep JA like everyone else but he got two dui's in the same year and then wanted a ton of cash. Got pissed when the Chiefs decided to hold off on it and then got more pissed, shooting off at the mouth saying " I will not sign a long term deal with the Chiefs."

Fugg him! Good on the King to get more picks for his alcoholic ass. In the next two years he will fugg up and miss one of them.

Anyong Bluth
04-23-2008, 07:47 AM
Fact the facts people:

We couldn't keep JA. The guy has just as much to blame for getting 2 DUI's while in KC as Carl for being an @sshat. Do I think he's cleaned it up, and probably not going to get in trouble again? Yes, I think he's grown up and probably will stay out of trouble, while being a productive player for at least 3-5 years.

So, are we going to be doing squat in the next 2-3 years? Probably not.
Do you want to pay 1 player the highest salary of any Def. player in the league to play here while he's going to be in his prime on a chitty team that's rebuilding- only to watch his salary cap numbers jump absurdly just as we hopefully have turned the corner and fielding a competitive squad? Not to mention the odds are that JA will no longer be the top DE in the league, and his cap number not equal to his value.

I loved the guy, and it sucks, but if you're looking long term, it's probably a good thing- assuming we don't make horrible picks.

theboweshow
04-23-2008, 08:01 AM
I've been thinking... Professional sports players lack any type of loyalty to their fans! Jared Allen = perfect example. Allen decided he wanted out of the red and gold because of something CP did. Carl Peterson doesn't pay his salary. We, the fans, pay his salary. I'm tired of rooting for a team, when every few years everyone is gone and you're looking at all new faces and you root for these new guys simply because of the color of jersey they are wearing. I see both the pros and cons of this trade and I'm glad it has happened. I won't be rooting for Jared as a Viking, but I will say this. Thank you Jared for the 3 draft picks we got out of your unloyal ass!! Have a drink on me!

StcChief
04-23-2008, 08:11 AM
Carl's a loser, screw him.

Congrats to JA, he may see a Super Bowl now and is rich to boot.

Carl is the blind squirrel who finds a nut every once in a while.... not sure of his input on JA draft anyway.

Glad he got good value for him in the end.

El Jefe
04-23-2008, 08:21 AM
Doesn't deserve any ****ing props. Booo freaking boo for this trade.

I agree with you on this point, I think it sucks we traded one of the best DE's in the league. If you logically think about it, it is one heck of a deal for us. You have a player who doesn't want to play with you and isn't going to sign a long term deal with you, it makes sense to get rid of him at optimum value which is what we did.

Frosty
04-23-2008, 08:21 AM
I would do the following. (I'm making up the years, so you can put in whatever year is a fair trade according to "conventional wisdom".) I'm dead serious about this.

A. Every year, I would trade my 7th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 10 years from now.

B. Every year, I would trade my 6th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 8 years from now.

C. Every year, I would trade my 5th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 6 years from now.

D. Every year, I would trade my 4th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 4 years from now.

E. Every year, I would trade my 3rd-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 2 years from now.

F. Every year, I would trade my 2nd-round draft pick for a 1st round pick the following year.

Your team would probably not fare overly well for a few years, but once you got the system up and running, you would enter every single season with 7 first-round draft picks. If there really is a time value to draft picks, this system is guaranteed to work.

I think Bobby Beathard tried out your system when he was with San Diego.

ChiefsFan4Life
04-23-2008, 08:23 AM
Yeah, I recognize that it happens, but I think it's more a factor of other things than a "time value of draft picks" phenomenon.

My suspicion is that it happens for two reasons:

1. Some GM sees a guy that he just can't live without, and he thinks the guy is undervalued in the current round. If it's the fourth-round, and he's graded a guy as 2nd round talent, he's going to be glad to give up a 3rd next year to get him.

2. Some GM is desperate to fill a hole right now, while another GM has a more long-term perspective, in which case the first guy is paying a premium to get a pick now.

If it's true that there is a time value for draft picks, then there will always be a market for a trade if you provide a perceived good value. If I was in Carl Peterson's oily shoes, and I knew that I would never be fired in the short term no matter how badly I performed, I would do the following. (I'm making up the years, so you can put in whatever year is a fair trade according to "conventional wisdom".) I'm dead serious about this.

A. Every year, I would trade my 7th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 10 years from now.

B. Every year, I would trade my 6th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 8 years from now.

C. Every year, I would trade my 5th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 6 years from now.

D. Every year, I would trade my 4th-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 4 years from now.

E. Every year, I would trade my 3rd-round draft pick for a 1st round pick 2 years from now.

F. Every year, I would trade my 2nd-round draft pick for a 1st round pick the following year.

Your team would probably not fare overly well for a few years, but once you got the system up and running, you would enter every single season with 7 first-round draft picks. If there really is a time value to draft picks, this system is guaranteed to work.

Your system assumes someone else would be willing to make those trades with you every year - not gonna happen

Mr. Laz
04-23-2008, 08:25 AM
wow ..... that's some serious spin ROFL

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 08:26 AM
wow ..... that's some serious spin ROFL

It's basic math based upon a standard chart and precedence.

Adept Havelock
04-23-2008, 09:43 AM
Don't tell me you actually believe that the Chiefs are going to somehow work this to their advantage?
They'll piss these picks away like they do every year. Likely drafting a bunch of camp fodder and over paid bench warmers. :banghead:

That's my concern, but Mecca Pena tells me we should just BELIEVE! :banghead:


I've never quite understood the logic of saying that a 2nd-round pick this year is equivalent to a 1st-round pick next year. Draft picks aren't like money; there's no inflation to dwindle a player's value. Other than the risk that the NFL will shut down, it's merely a decision between immediate gratification and delayed gratification.

I recognize that in 2008 it's nicer to have a player on the field right now, but from a big-picture perspective the goal is to put the best players on the field over a specific time period. In 2018, it will be nicer to have another guy on the field then.

Ask the Redskins and the Chargers if it really helped them when Bobby Beathard would acquire 2nd-round picks on draft day by trading his next year's 1st-round picks. I don't think it was a good idea.

Put another way, how many of you would trade our 1st round pick in 2016 for a 7th-round pick next week? I would hope that no one would.


I will gladly pay you Tuesday, for a draft pick today.

.

Chief Henry
04-23-2008, 09:51 AM
We have all these wonderful draft picks with numnuts picking them. I'm not sold on this
deal at all---yet.

Chiefnj2
04-23-2008, 10:02 AM
It seems like the people that support the move are the armchair draft day guys. It gives them 3 more days to play GM and generate new and different mock drafts.

Chief Wiggum
04-23-2008, 10:10 AM
This doesn't make any sense to me. Take away the fact the two thirds could arguably be considered a first round pick next year - the value of the trade still sucks. My point being, there are arguably 4 cornerstone positions on each team: QB, LT, CB, and DE. The only cornerstone we had locked up we just traded away on the hope that we can fill the spot with a couple of people. Why do I see a Simms & Siavii type failure here. We lucked out on JA because we picked him to be a long snapper - not because we saw him becoming a franchise DE.

I understand the guy had two DUIs, but in my mind there's less risk in him getting a third then us flopping on a high-end DL pick. JA wasn't pissed at the Chiefs, he was pissed at CP - just like all of freakin' Chiefs Nation. Don't tell me we couldn't have patched the relationship up if we got rid of Carl after the season. Instead, we keep the guy who keeps people out of the stands, and get rid of the guy who fills them.

I'm pissed...

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 10:11 AM
I understand the guy had two DUIs, but in my mind there's less risk in him getting a third then us flopping on a high-end DL pick. JA wasn't pissed at the Chiefs, he was pissed at CP - just like all of freakin' Chiefs Nation. Don't tell me we couldn't have patched the relationship up if we got rid of Carl after the season. Instead, we keep the guy who keeps people out of the stands, and get rid of the guy who fills them.

I'm pissed...

JA's had 4 DUI's.

Chief Wiggum
04-23-2008, 10:13 AM
Yeah, but only two pose a risk to the Chiefs.

Molitoth
04-23-2008, 10:14 AM
Don't tell me we couldn't have patched the relationship up if we got rid of Carl after the season.


Like that was going to happen... you really think Carl is going somewhere?

Tiger's Fan
04-23-2008, 10:16 AM
An already questionable defense just got a hell of a lot worse. Chances are not one of our now 13 picks will be as talented as JA is. Theres no other way to look at this than being a failure on CP's and the FO's part.

beach tribe
04-23-2008, 10:16 AM
"Get over it"

I will be pissed about this until one of these picks is a probowler, and at least one other is a solid starter.

I have very little faith that that will happen, but I've never been devoid of hope, although it's getting close.

If we bomb this draft.................oh my god.

Brock
04-23-2008, 10:17 AM
Theres no other way to look at this than being a failure on CP's and the FO's part.

Obviously, there are several other ways to look at it. Clearly.

PHOG
04-23-2008, 10:17 AM
Yeah, but only two pose a risk to the Chiefs.

Out of curiosity, what is a 3rd DUI in Missouri worth?

milkman
04-23-2008, 10:17 AM
I think Bobby Beathard tried out your system when he was with San Diego.

Actually, Beathard was the guy trading away future firsts.

Brock
04-23-2008, 10:18 AM
Yeah, but only two pose a risk to the Chiefs.

Wha? Jared taking the wrong cold medicine will get him kicked out for a year. This isn't limited to drinking, or DUIs.

alanm
04-23-2008, 10:19 AM
That's my concern, but Mecca Pena tells me we should just BELIEVE! :banghead:





I will gladly pay you Tuesday, for a draft pick today.

.
I gave up on the Chiefs today. Trading their best player for a chance to draft a couple of maybe's who of course they've proven that they don't have a clue when it comes to the draft. This team has officially become a joke.
I'm so f*cking pissed I'm seriously considering caring about the Bronco's now since I have to watch them every week regardless.
Why the f*ck should I renew Sunday Ticket when my team doesn't give a shit about what they put on the field.
At least the Bronco's care about winning.
Oh I know. I'm supposed to get over it. :spock:

milkman
04-23-2008, 10:20 AM
Carl is the blind squirrel who finds a nut every once in a while.... not sure of his input on JA draft anyway.

Glad he got good value for him in the end.

What Carl has done over the years is allowed his head coach and coordinators strongly influence his decisions in the early rounds, and then let Chuck Cook and the scouting staff influence his later round decisions.

What we've seen over the years is that Marty, Gunt and Dick sucked ass at talent evaluation, and that Chuck Cook and his staff have a pretty good eye.

Chief Wiggum
04-23-2008, 10:20 AM
Like that was going to happen... you really think Carl is going somewhere?

No - I'm not delusional, but it's not Jared's fault that the Chiefs are stupid for keeping Carl around. Jared is being made out to be argumentative and combative with the Chiefs when he never should have had to deal with Carl in the first place.

Unfortunately, I've resigned myself to the fact that Carl Peterson has some serious blackmail on the Hunt family and won't be leaving until his contract with Satan is up...

Chief Wiggum
04-23-2008, 10:22 AM
Out of curiosity, what is a 3rd DUI in Missouri worth?

A first round pick in 2010.

Frosty
04-23-2008, 10:23 AM
Actually, Beathard was the guy trading away future firsts.

I'm pretty sure that's what I was saying, since that was the gist of Rainman's "system".

beach tribe
04-23-2008, 10:23 AM
What Carl has done over the years is allowed his head coach and coordinators strongly influence his decisions in the early rounds, and then let Chuck Cook and the scouting staff influence his later round decisions.

What we've seen over the years is that Marty, Gunt and Dick sucked ass at talent evaluation, and that Chuck Cook and his staff have a pretty good eye.

Still CP's fault for letting them have too much controll.

At the end of the day Carl is responsible.

alanm
04-23-2008, 10:24 AM
I've been thinking... Professional sports players lack any type of loyalty to their fans! Jared Allen = perfect example. Allen decided he wanted out of the red and gold because of something CP did. Carl Peterson doesn't pay his salary. We, the fans, pay his salary. I'm tired of rooting for a team, when every few years everyone is gone and you're looking at all new faces and you root for these new guys simply because of the color of jersey they are wearing. I see both the pros and cons of this trade and I'm glad it has happened. I won't be rooting for Jared as a Viking, but I will say this. Thank you Jared for the 3 draft picks we got out of your unloyal ass!! Have a drink on me!
Right now I hope Jared breaks his leg stepping out for his morning paper.
And Carl has a cerebral hemorrhage and keels over dead.:evil:

xbarretx
04-23-2008, 10:31 AM
Wha? Jared taking the wrong cold medicine will get him kicked out for a year. This isn't limited to drinking, or DUIs.

Yep, i think since you changed your Avatar people dont take you as serious. j/k

i agree 100% and i think anyone complaing about this deal is just doing so for the sake or argument.

the fans like JA..

i think JA likes the fans here in KC...

JA doesnt like CP.. nor does the fans....

trading as was done is the best scenerio given that JA has the contract he wants, the chiefs dont have to shell out 31 mill Gaurnteed(sp) and we get some really good picks and a CHANCE to have a very good draft. so JA leaves KC the fans are happy b/c its on good terms for us and we dont get shafted like Tait....

call me old fashion but theres really nothing to complain about. we are NOT going to be a contender this year and possible 09 as well. why pay all that cash to have him sit here, while we in 5 games? :shrug:

in conclusion... right on brock!

Adept Havelock
04-23-2008, 10:31 AM
I gave up on the Chiefs today. Trading their best player for a chance to draft a couple of maybe's who of course they've proven that they don't have a clue when it comes to the draft. This team has officially become a joke.
I'm so f*cking pissed I'm seriously considering caring about the Bronco's now since I have to watch them every week regardless.
Why the f*ck should I renew Sunday Ticket when my team doesn't give a shit about what they put on the field.
At least the Bronco's care about winning.
Oh I know. I'm supposed to get over it. :spock:

I'm not quite there, but I can certainly sympathize.

alanm
04-23-2008, 11:13 AM
I don't think you can give all the credit to Carl for getting us to this point. JA deserves a good share of it. JA is the one how racked up a couple of DUIs. JA is the one who got pissy when the team refused to give him a major contract on the heals of a substance abuse suspension even though he still had a year left to play out on his contract. And JA is the one who showed up to the 101 banquet in a freaking tuxedo t-shirt, for goodness sake.

My preference would have been for the Chiefs and JA to work out a reasonable deal to keep JA in Chiefs red for a long time, but JA made the choice that he didn't want to be here.
F*ck Allen.
And Carl can go f*ck off and die.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 11:30 AM
I gave up on the Chiefs today. Trading their best player for a chance to draft a couple of maybe's who of course they've proven that they don't have a clue when it comes to the draft. This team has officially become a joke.
I'm so f*cking pissed I'm seriously considering caring about the Bronco's now since I have to watch them every week regardless.
Why the f*ck should I renew Sunday Ticket when my team doesn't give a shit about what they put on the field.
At least the Bronco's care about winning.
Oh I know. I'm supposed to get over it. :spock:

Yeah, I find it extremely short sighted, to think this was a good deal. The Chief's have only had two impact defensive players, in the last two decades that they drafted of this caliber. DT and JA, you can NOT trade him, but they did.

Brock
04-23-2008, 11:33 AM
You didn't just compare Derrick Thomas to Jared Allen....jesus....

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 11:35 AM
You didn't just compare Derrick Thomas to Jared Allen....jesus....

Yes, I have done it on this board numerous times. Got a problem with it?

Brock
04-23-2008, 11:36 AM
Yes, I have done it on this board numerous times. Got a problem with it?

No, I'm very tolerant of special needs people.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 11:37 AM
No, I'm very tolerant of special needs people. whatever

Dick Bull
04-23-2008, 11:37 AM
No, I'm very tolerant of special needs people.


:)

Brock
04-23-2008, 11:38 AM
whatever

Like, yah.

Nightfyre
04-23-2008, 12:11 PM
To those unsure about why a draft pick today is worth more than a draft pick tomorrow:

There is obviously value to having a commodity NOW rather than in a year. Money is one such commodity. There is interest, even in a fixed money supply system. Granted, if you feel the next years commodity will be more or less valuable due to other circumstances, that risk premium will be factored into the rate at which you lend, borrow or trade.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 12:27 PM
Like, yah.

Now reread my post, maybe it has had time to sink in.

Brock
04-23-2008, 12:29 PM
Now reread my post, maybe it has had time to sink in.

Your posts says that Jared Allen is the same caliber of player as Derrick Thomas. I re-read it, it's still retarded.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 12:35 PM
Your posts says that Jared Allen is the same caliber of player as Derrick Thomas. I re-read it, it's still retarded.

Ok let me rephrase it for you. Do you not think JA is the second best defensive player the Chiefs have drafted since CP took over?

DT being the best, I know you got that part.

My point is, these type of impact players don't come along every three draft picks, even if they were all firsts.

GoHuge
04-23-2008, 12:39 PM
Now we just gotta hope they don't f**k it up.

Brock
04-23-2008, 12:41 PM
Ok let me rephrase it for you. Do you not think JA is the second best defensive player the Chiefs have drafted since CP took over?

Yeah, and Trent Green is the second best quarterback they've ever had in franchise history.

FringeNC
04-23-2008, 12:43 PM
Good trade. It makes no sense to throw all that money at JA at this point in the talent cycle.

It's unfortunate that CP didn't realize last year that LJ also should have been traded. If we were going to keep one and trade one, keeping Allen makes far more sense. Nonetheless, still a good trade. Better to learn late than never.

From Minnesota's perspective, I am a little confused. Did I miss something, or is Tavaris Jackson still their starting QB? If so, why bother with Allen?

Dick Bull
04-23-2008, 12:44 PM
Ok let me rephrase it for you. Do you not think JA is the second best defensive player the Chiefs have drafted since CP took over?

DT being the best, I know you got that part.

My point is, these type of impact players don't come along every three draft picks, even if they were all firsts.



<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR class=colhead align=right ?><TD align=left>SPLIT</TD><TD>TOT</TD><TD>SOLO</TD><TD>AST</TD><TD>SACK</TD><TD>STF</TD><TD>STFY</TD><TD>FF</TD><TD>BK</TD><TD>INT</TD><TD>YDS</TD><TD>AVG</TD><TD>LNG</TD><TD>TD</TD><TD>PD</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>2007</TD><TD>65</TD><TD>56</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>15.5</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>10</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysptblthbody1 align=right height=18><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left>Season</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left>Team</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl> G</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Solo</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Ast</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Total</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Sack</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>YdsL</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Int</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Yds</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>IntTD</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>DefTD</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>FFum</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>PD</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl>Sfty</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left>2000</TD><TD class=yspscores align=left>Kansas City</TD><TD class=yspscores>13</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>37</TD><TD class=yspscores>9</TD><TD class=yspscores>46</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>14.0</TD><TD class=yspscores>73</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD><TD class=yspscores>2</TD><TD class=yspscores>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


JA had 19 more tackles in 1 more game and 1.5 more sacks than eric hicks

I guess that's worth 70 million

Chiefnj2
04-23-2008, 12:48 PM
Your posts says that Jared Allen is the same caliber of player as Derrick Thomas. I re-read it, it's still retarded.


It's not that retarded. Thomas had a bunch of pro bowl quality defensive players to take some of the pressure off of him. We'll see what kind of #'s Allen can put up in Minny.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 12:55 PM
Yeah, and Trent Green is the second best quarterback they've ever had in franchise history.

Did you miss your meds today? WTF does that have to do with draft percentage? We got three ****ing draft picks for the guy, the chances are not very good that any of them will be close to his caliber. That is, if you think history can teach us anything.

Dave Lane
04-23-2008, 12:59 PM
You don't get it. It would take 2 trades. If you look at trades that happen EVERY SINGLE YEAR, teams have traded two 3rd round picks to move up to the 2nd round and teams trade NEXT YEAR's 1st round pick (and sometimes more) for a 2nd round pick.

It's not like I'm pulling this out of my ass, those two types of trades happen all the time.

I think everyone knew the Colts pick was going to be like a 2nd rounder anyway. ie 30th pick or so...

Dave

Brock
04-23-2008, 01:00 PM
Did you miss your meds today? WTF does that have to do with draft percentage? We got three ****ing draft picks for the guy, the chances are not very good that any of them will be close to his caliber. That is, if you think history can teach us anything.

It doesn't have anything to do with draft percentage. It has to do with you acting like comparing a good player to a legendary one is going to fly. It isn't. Hell, if you don't think the team can build a team through the draft, then you must be pretty ****ing stupid to waste your time paying any attention to it.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2008, 01:01 PM
Did you miss your meds today? WTF does that have to do with draft percentage? We got three ****ing draft picks for the guy, the chances are not very good that any of them will be close to his caliber. That is, if you think history can teach us anything.

Why do any of them have to be of Allen's caliber? (and that in itself is debatable)

Three solid starters at (insert positions here) will do more for the rebirth of this franchise than Jared Allen could possibly do by himself.

ChiefsCountry
04-23-2008, 01:14 PM
Ok let me rephrase it for you. Do you not think JA is the second best defensive player the Chiefs have drafted since CP took over?


No, Dale Carter was way better than Jared Allen.

RustShack
04-23-2008, 01:20 PM
We beat the Vikings in the Super bowl, I'm calling it.

xbarretx
04-23-2008, 01:21 PM
To those unsure about why a draft pick today is worth more than a draft pick tomorrow:

There is obviously value to having a commodity NOW rather than in a year. Money is one such commodity. There is interest, even in a fixed money supply system. Granted, if you feel the next years commodity will be more or less valuable due to other circumstances, that risk premium will be factored into the rate at which you lend, borrow or trade.

bird in the hand is worth two in the bush ;) that i can understand :clap:

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 01:24 PM
No, Dale Carter was way better than Jared Allen.

Dale Carter was Defensive Rookie of the Year in 2002, a 4x Pro-Bowl selection (1994-1997) and a 4x All-Pro (1994-1997) before screwing off with drugs in 1998.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 01:36 PM
It doesn't have anything to do with draft percentage. It has to do with you acting like comparing a good player to a legendary one is going to fly. It isn't. Hell, if you don't think the team can build a team through the draft, then you must be pretty ****ing stupid to waste your time paying any attention to it.

Oh go **** yourself. You IGNORED the point and are nitpicking at a detail. I have been paying attention to it for a long time, and learn from the history.
DT was legendary yes, and very much on the decline before his passing. JA is the best defensive player since him, without question and does not have 10 years in the NFL.

I did not want this rebuilding with Herm at the helm, but am still paying attention.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 01:38 PM
Why do any of them have to be of Allen's caliber? (and that in itself is debatable)

Three solid starters at (insert positions here) will do more for the rebirth of this franchise than Jared Allen could possibly do by himself.

So how many solid starters has Herm gleaned from his 3rd round picks so far? 2nd?

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 01:38 PM
No, Dale Carter was way better than Jared Allen.

LMAO

DaKCMan AP
04-23-2008, 01:40 PM
So how many solid starters has Herm gleaned from his 3rd round picks so far? 2nd?

How dare we give them 2-3 years to become solid starters. I mean, Jared Allen was an all-pro already his rookie year!

DJJasonp
04-23-2008, 01:42 PM
True, it is partly CP's doing that Allen did not want to remain here. However, I can understand WHY CP would be somewhat hesitant to give a guy $72 million the same year he's getting punished for his 2nd DUI.

However, what's done is done there and if you look at it as what it's been this entire year - Allen wanted out - CP did a great job at getting excellent compensation.

I'd give props to Carl.....only if he would have done the same for Larry Johnson.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2008, 01:55 PM
So how many solid starters has Herm gleaned from his 3rd round picks so far? 2nd?

It's been TWO YEARS.

How do you evaluate a draft class in less than two years?

Again, people are letting their hate for Herm and Peterson cloud the issue.

We have 6 of the first 82 picks in the draft.

It's one of the deepest drafts on record at positions we desperately need.

This draft class will do more for the rebirth of the Kansas City Chiefs than Jared Allen alone could ever do.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 02:26 PM
This draft class will do more for the rebirth of the Kansas City Chiefs than Jared Allen alone could ever do.

The Chiefs didn't get 13 picks for Jared Allen, they got the second of their 1st round picks and a couple of the thirds. If I understand correctly, the 6ths were swapped to give Minnesota better position in that round.

So the Jared Allen trade is mid first and most of two thirds, nothing more.

The way I see it, if the Chiefs draft JA's replacement with the #5 pick, they lost ground.

Oh boy, bring on the Herm is a draft genious crew, he has 13 picks! Medlock anyone?

Brock
04-23-2008, 02:28 PM
He only looks like a draft day genius because he replaced a complete moron in that regard.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2008, 02:35 PM
The Chiefs didn't get 13 picks for Jared Allen, they got the second of their 1st round picks and a couple of the thirds. If I understand correctly, the 6ths were swapped to give Minnesota better position in that round.

So the Jared Allen trade is mid first and most of two thirds, nothing more.

The way I see it, if the Chiefs draft JA's replacement with the #5 pick, they lost ground.

Oh boy, bring on the Herm is a draft genious crew, he has 13 picks! Medlock anyone?

What you're missing Ed, is that if Chris Long or Vernon Gholston is there at 5, they are likely the Chiefs BPA, and they would have taken them REGARDLESS of whether Allen was here or not.

And people would bitch about getting an elite talent.

Just like people are going to bitch about getting that same elite talent if we're "replacing" Allen.

To think this trade is only a success if we don't use the 5th pick on a DE?

Insane.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 02:40 PM
What you're missing Ed, is that if Chris Long or Vernon Gholston is there at 5, they are likely the Chiefs BPA, and they would have taken them REGARDLESS of whether Allen was here or not.

And people would bitch about getting an elite talent.

Just like people are going to bitch about getting that same elite talent if we're "replacing" Allen.

To think this trade is only a success if we don't use the 5th pick on a DE?

Insane.

I read it different, but hey I guess that is what makes it fun. Prior to this trade, I think they might have gone several different directions. Now, they are probably locked on to VG IMO.

Heck, according to some on here, he is the best player in the draft. Could be, I don't know, but it has been 20 years since a top 5 pick.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2008, 02:45 PM
I read it different, but hey I guess that is what makes it fun. Prior to this trade, I think they might have gone several different directions. Now, they are probably locked on to VG IMO.

Heck, according to some on here, he is the best player in the draft. Could be, I don't know, but it has been 20 years since a top 5 pick.

I'm looking at this completely different than most people.

Before the trade, there was a real threat that they'd make a huge mistake and reach for a offensive lineman, based on need, passing on better players like Long and Gholston. Even though DE was (and obviously still is) a huge need with only Hali and Allen on the roster.

Now, I feel this all but forces them to take the best player available.

I'd be shocked if either Long or Gholston isn't there.

And in the end, getting the best player at the 5 slot is more important to me than worrying about whether we're using a pick to replace Allen.

I'm betting they draft 2-3 DE's in this draft. Might as well get the best.

alanm
04-23-2008, 02:46 PM
You didn't just compare Derrick Thomas to Jared Allen....jesus....
Jared hasn't dominated games like Thomas did. He's got the potential to but it seems in retrospect that he dominated 1st halves of games. He got his 2 sacks and eased off. You can go back and look at most of the games and find that to be the case. Just saying.
And just saying I wish he were still a Chief. :(

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 02:46 PM
He only looks like a draft day genius because he replaced a complete moron in that regard.

Yep, that moron spent his second 4th on the guy, that just turned into a 1st and two 3rds for Hermie.

Waiting on the "he was only drafted to be a long snapper" bull shit.

Sure-Oz
04-23-2008, 02:49 PM
Jared hasn't dominated games like Thomas did. He's got the potential to but it seems in retrospect that he dominated 1st halves of games. He got his 2 sacks and eased off. You can go back and look at most of the games and find that to be the case. Just saying.
And just saying I wish he were still a Chief. :(

JA couldn't touch DT...apparently he had zero 4th qtr sacks last year?

Brock
04-23-2008, 02:49 PM
Yep, that moron spent his second 4th on the guy, that just turned into a 1st and two 3rds for Hermie.

Waiting on the "he was only drafted to be a long snapper" bull shit.

Yeah, that almost makes up for Ryan Sims, Eddie Freeman, Junior Siavii, Kris Wilson, Julian Battle, Kawika Mitchell, and the fact that he wanted some stiff instead of Larry Johnson.

88TG88
04-23-2008, 02:52 PM
Its a pipe dream to say this is the same as 2 1st. I'd rather have 2 3rd than one 2nd based on the curse of the 2nd rounder for the Chiefs.

Dave

I agree

alanm
04-23-2008, 02:54 PM
It's been TWO YEARS.

How do you evaluate a draft class in less than two years?

Again, people are letting their hate for Herm and Peterson cloud the issue.

We have 6 of the first 82 picks in the draft.

It's one of the deepest drafts on record at positions we desperately need.

This draft class will do more for the rebirth of the Kansas City Chiefs than Jared Allen alone could ever do.
I know and understand your points to a fault.
Buy the way I feel at the moment with the Chiefs has me lacking in confidence that they will execute a good draft. :shake:

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2008, 02:58 PM
I know and understand your points to a fault.
Buy the way I feel at the moment with the Chiefs has me lacking in confidence that they will execute a good draft. :shake:


Then there's absolutely no reason to be a fan. Not trying to be a dick, but it's true.

You build a Championship team through the draft.

If you don't trust the execution of that draft, you don't trust that they'll EVER win a Championship.

If that's the case, why waste your time?

You're obviously not getting any enjoyment out of it.

Adept Havelock
04-23-2008, 03:10 PM
I know and understand your points to a fault.
Buy the way I feel at the moment with the Chiefs has me lacking in confidence that they will execute a good draft. :shake:

Right there with you. Don't mind the folks who tell you to give up because you don't BELIEVE!

It's got to be faith, as Carl and Herm's track record sure don't show anything to base it on. I've never been much for blind faith or wishful thinking contrary to history, but that's me.

We outlasted Steadman, we can outlast Peterson. Someday this franchise will have decent leadership (I hope). I won't give up on a team I've backed since the 60's, and I doubt you will either.

I just stopped spending money on it until that change arrives.

ChiefaRoo
04-23-2008, 03:12 PM
I'm glad the big dumb cowboy is gone. Mark my words he's going to get a leg injury. He will break down in the next two seasons. Don't get me wrong I hope he doesn't but the way he is built and plays exposes his legs to blockers. I think this will be an outstanding trade IF KC drafts well.

Boozer76
04-23-2008, 03:21 PM
Hey guys, Your resident infrequent friendly Jets fan checking in to weigh in my 2 cents.

This move has it's pros and cons to both sidesw. First off, what the heck are the Vikings thinking? Does anyone really believe they were a solid pass rushing DE away from being a true top tier NFC contender? I certainly don't, but I digress....

On the bad side of this trade-As good as prospects like Chris Long and Gholston look, there's no way that either one will step in and produce as well as Allen has. Not as a rookie. With this trade going down, it almost forces the Ciefs to replace him with their 5th overall pick. Will Chris Long or Gholston and a mid round pick be better than Allen and a 5th overall pick? I doubt it. As for the 3rd rounders, yes they are a nice addition. But 3rd rounders tend to be 50/50 crap shoots for the most part. For every stud drafted in the 3rd round there are 100 Derrick Straits playing in the CFL within just a few years of being drafted.

On the good side-Allen is one infraction from sitting out a full season. That is a costly risk for a guy who is now the highest paid DE in football. Furthermore, if Peterson and Herm manage to strike gold with 2 players in the first round alone, they will be much better off in the long term. If the 3rd rounders turn out to be decent contributors as well it really can be a big help to turn the Chiefs back into the powerhouse they once were along with those first rounders.

All in all, what I really think this deal does is puts both Herm and CP's jobs on the line. To trade the most prolific guy on your D, and arguably on the entire team is a very risky move. They had better have done their homework in this draft and get a couple prolific players in the first round. If their draft picks don't become studs and Allen lights it up in Minny then CP and DuhHerm are going to be out the door.

Either way, good luck to you guys in the draft and if at all possible, let Chris Long slide past you to the Jets ;).

BigChiefFan
04-23-2008, 03:24 PM
Hey guys, Your resident infrequent friendly Jets fan checking in to weigh in my 2 cents.

This move has it's pros and cons to both sidesw. First off, what the heck are the Vikings thinking? Does anyone really believe they were a solid pass rushing DE away from being a true top tier NFC contender? I certainly don't, but I digress....

On the bad side of this trade-As good as prospects like Chris Long and Gholston look, there's no way that either one will step in and produce as well as Allen has. Not as a rookie. With this trade going down, it almost forces the Ciefs to replace him with their 5th overall pick. Will Chris Long or Gholston and a mid round pick be better than Allen and a 5th overall pick? I doubt it. As for the 3rd rounders, yes they are a nice addition. But 3rd rounders tend to be 50/50 crap shoots for the most part. For every stud drafted in the 3rd round there are 100 Derrick Straits playing in the CFL within just a few years of being drafted.

On the good side-Allen is one infraction from sitting out a full season. That is a costly risk for a guy who is now the highest paid DE in football. Furthermore, if Peterson and Herm manage to strike gold with 2 players in the first round alone, they will be much better off in the long term. If the 3rd rounders turn out to be decent contributors as well it really can be a big help to turn the Chiefs back into the powerhouse they once were along with those first rounders.

All in all, what I really think this deal does is puts both Herm and CP's jobs on the line. To trade the most prolific guy on your D, and arguably on the entire team is a very risky move. They had better have done their homework in this draft and get a couple prolific players in the first round. If their draft picks don't become studs and Allen lights it up in Minny then CP and DuhHerm are going to be out the door.

Either way, good luck to you guys in the draft and if at all possible, let Chris Long slide past you to the Jets ;).
Pretty good post. I agree with alot of what you said.

Chief Wiggum
04-23-2008, 03:25 PM
I know this is the minority opinion on this thread right now, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say JA is in the same leagues as DT. Here me out: I don't think JA is as good as DT was, however, JA didn't have the threat opposite of him that DT did with Neil Smith. Let's face it, Hali last year was a liability when teams realized they could run on him - they shifted blocking protection to JAs side because of it. Smith could really bring it and teams couldn't shift blockers as much to help on Thomas.

Further, DT's numbers fell off when Smith left and he was being called out as a liability against the run (although, the same could arguably be said about Allen). Also, I discount the fact that JA had no sacks in the 4th quarter this year. An important statistic, yes, but skewed by the fact teams were running the ball more trying to run out the clock against us.

Look, I don't think JA is as good as DT, but I think he's about the closest we've had to him since DT's death. I hope the picks we have this year pan out. I do have faith in Herm and Kuharich having a decent draft. I just know how hard cornerstone DEs are to come by.

BigChiefFan
04-23-2008, 03:29 PM
I know this is the minority opinion on this thread right now, but I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say JA is in the same leagues as DT. Here me out: I don't think JA is as good as DT was, however, JA didn't have the threat opposite of him that DT did with Neil Smith. Let's face it, Hali last year was a liability when teams realized they could run on him - they shifted blocking protection to JAs side because of it. Smith could really bring it and teams couldn't shift blockers as much to help on Thomas.

Further, DT's numbers fell off when Smith left and he was being called out as a liability against the run (although, the same could arguably be said about Allen). Also, I discount the fact that JA had no sacks in the 4th quarter this year. An important statistic, yes, but skewed by the fact teams were running the ball more trying to run out the clock against us.

Look, I don't think JA is as good as DT, but I think he's about the closest we've had to him since DT's death. I hope the picks we have this year pan out. I do have faith in Herm and Kuharich having a decent draft. I just know how hard cornerstone DEs are to come by. That's a fair approach. I tend to agree.

KC Tattoo
04-23-2008, 04:11 PM
We received the Vikings 1st round pick #17 overall and BOTH of their 3rd round picks (#73 and #82).

Now, follow along here:

If you take the draft value chart, the combined value of the two 3rd round picks is 405 pts which is equivalent to the #17 or #18 pick in the 2nd round this year.

Now, a 1st round pick NEXT YEAR (2009) is equivalent to a 2nd round pick THIS YEAR (2008), meaning the #17 or #18 pick in the 2nd round is equivalent to the #17 or #18 pick overall in 2009.

Strictly from a draft value chart standard, we received the #17 overall pick in 2008 and the #17 or #18 pick overall in 2009.

Just giving credit where credit is due, and we are in great position now (if our draft board is setup correctly - a big if) to get SEVEN (7) of the top 100 players in the draft.

:)


All this for a fourth round long snapper, brilliant! He didn't even preform as a long snapper Ha ha ha.:evil: