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ct
04-23-2008, 03:45 PM
I was just projecting a bit on holes to fill on this team, it occured to me how quickly Herm has trimmed and filled the starter spots with his own guys.

DE - Tamba, Gholston perhaps, most likely an '08 draftee or Turk
DT - Boone, Tank/Turk
LB - DJ, Edwards, Harris
CB - Surtain, Brackenridge? or draftee
S - Pollard and Page, possible Wesley still starts but I'm not counting on it.

On Defense, I count only 2 starters from pre-Herm era, DJ and Surtain, or 3 if you want to count Donnie Edwards as well. I'm gonna say 2, since Edwards did rejoin the team after Herm arrived. Also interesting that of those 9 "Herm guys", only 3 are FAs, so 6 of 11 projected starters on defense are Herm draftees/UDFAs in 3 years.

OT - McIntosh and '08 draftee (Clady, Otah, Williams, Cherilius, maybe Svitek, but I doubt it)
OG - Waters and '08 draftee (maybe Taylor, but I doubt it)
C - Niswanger, maybe Smith, maybe '08 draftee. I project Rudy at this point.
QB - Croyle, maybe Ryan, maybe Brohm, but I doubt it.
RB - LJ
FB - Who the hell knows, but I'll project Hoyte for now.
WR - Bowe, Webb/Darling, maybe '08 draftee. I project Webb or a rookie to start.
TE - Gonzo

On Offense, only 3 starters, Waters, LJ, and Gonzo predate Herm's arrival. Of the remaining 8, only 2 are FAs, leaving 6 of 11 starters are Herm draftees/UDFAs in 3 years.

12 draftees or UDFAs for Herm in 3 years. Starters, not roster spots, starters!

Molitoth
04-23-2008, 03:48 PM
I doubt it.

Vegas_Dave
04-23-2008, 03:50 PM
is this good or bad???

el borracho
04-23-2008, 03:57 PM
is this good or bad???

2-14 in 2008.

Spott
04-23-2008, 04:01 PM
2-14 in 2008.

Not to mention increased ticket prices to watch the team go 2-14.

BigChiefFan
04-23-2008, 04:10 PM
If that's his great team, he's in for a rude awakening once they hit the field. Our defense is going to be atrocious without a pass rush. I like Gholston, but our rush defense already sucks, I'm concerned we'll become even worse if we were to pick him. I'm sold on Ellis, or Dorsey should he fall.

Reerun_KC
04-23-2008, 04:49 PM
<TABLE class="sortable stats_table small_text" id=coaching_results><THEAD><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffcc" onmouseout=uhl(this);><TH class=" sort_default_asc" align=left table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="0">Year</TH><TH class=" sort_default_asc" onmouseover="Tip('Player\'s age on December 31st of that year')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="1">Age</TH><TH class=" sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" align=left table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="2">Tm</TH><TH class=" sort_default_asc" onmouseover="Tip('League
NFL - National Football League
AFL - American Football League
AAFC - All-American Football Conference
APFA - American Professional Football Association')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="3">Lg</TH><TH class="" onmouseover="Tip('Games played')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="4">G</TH><TH class="" onmouseover="Tip('Games Won')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="5">W</TH><TH class="" onmouseover="Tip('Games Lost')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="6">L</TH><TH class="" onmouseover="Tip('Tie Games')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="7">T</TH><TH class=" hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip('Win-Loss Percentage of team
For coaches, minimum to qualify for leading is 50 games.
After 1972, ties are counted as half-wins and half-losses.
Prior, the league didn\'t count them as games in W-L% calculations.')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="8">W-L%</TH><TH class="" onmouseover="Tip('Playoff games coached in')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="9">G plyf</TH><TH class="" onmouseover="Tip('All Playoff Wins')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="10">W plyf</TH><TH class="" onmouseover="Tip('Playoff games lost')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="11">L plyf</TH><TH class=" show_partial_when_sorting hide_non_quals" onmouseover="Tip('Win-Loss Percentage of team in playoffs
For coaches, minimum to qualify for leading is 4 games.
Includes games in the pre-Super Bowl era.')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="12">W-L%</TH><TH class=" sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" onmouseover="Tip('Team\'s Finish in Division')" align=middle table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="13">Rank</TH><TH class=" sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" align=left table_number="1" sorttable_columnindex="14">Notes</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>2001 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2001/)</TD><TD align=right>47</TD><TD align=left>New York Jets (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2001.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2001_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>10</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>.625</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>.000</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=left></TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>2002 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2002/)</TD><TD align=right>48</TD><TD align=left>New York Jets (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2002.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2002_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>9</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>.563</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>.500</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=left></TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>2003 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2003/)</TD><TD align=right>49</TD><TD align=left>New York Jets (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2003.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2003_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>10</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>.375</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=left></TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>2004 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2004/)</TD><TD align=right>50</TD><TD align=left>New York Jets (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2004.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2004_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>10</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>.625</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>.500</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=left></TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>2005 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005/)</TD><TD align=right>51</TD><TD align=left>New York Jets (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2005.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2005_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>12</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>.250</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=left></TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>2006 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006/)</TD><TD align=right>52</TD><TD align=left>Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2006.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2006_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>9</TD><TD align=right>7</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>.563</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>.000</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=left></TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>2007 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007/)</TD><TD align=right>53</TD><TD align=left>Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2007.htm)</TD><TD align=left>NFL</TD><TD align=right>16 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2007_games.htm)</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD align=right>12</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>.250</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD align=left></TD></TR></TBODY><TFOOT><TR class=" stat_total" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>7 yrs</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=left></TD><TD align=left></TD><TD align=right>112</TD><TD align=right>52</TD><TD align=right>60</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD class=" " align=right>.464</TD><TD align=right>6</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>4</TD><TD class=" " align=right>.333</TD><TD align=right>2.6</TD><TD align=left>Avg Finish</TD></TR><TR class=" stat_total" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>5 yrs</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=left>NYJ</TD><TD align=left></TD><TD align=right>80</TD><TD align=right>39</TD><TD align=right>41</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD class=" " align=right>.488</TD><TD align=right>5</TD><TD align=right>2</TD><TD align=right>3</TD><TD class=" " align=right>.400</TD><TD align=right>2.6</TD><TD align=left></TD></TR><TR class=" stat_total" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=left>2 yrs</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=left>KAN</TD><TD align=left></TD><TD align=right>32</TD><TD align=right>13</TD><TD align=right>19</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD class=" non_qual" align=right>.406</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>1</TD><TD class=" non_qual" align=right>.000</TD><TD align=right>2.5</TD><TD align=left></TD></TR></TFOOT></TABLE>
Games over .500: -8
Super Bowl Wins: 0
Overall Championships: 0
Conference Championships: 0
Division Championships: 1

Reerun_KC
04-23-2008, 04:50 PM
Stats don't lie...

Herm isnt good....

Fish
04-23-2008, 04:52 PM
ROFL

We're 3 days away from the biggest and most important draft in Chiefs history and the retarts are whining about Herm.....

This place rocks....

el borracho
04-23-2008, 05:02 PM
If disliking a career loser head coach makes me "retarted" then I am a Down syndrome mother-effer. I will complain about Herm and/ or Carl as much as I like until they are either gone or do something to change my mind (improbable, based on history).

jettio
04-23-2008, 05:03 PM
It seems to me that we will field a better starting 22 than last year. Jarred Allen is the only one missing who made a lot of good plays last year.

Wesley is better than he gets credit for, and he may be cut by June. But not many good plays left with the rest of the dearly departed.

If Herm drafts tough guys that like playing football, this team will be competitive in 12 of its games next year and should win 6-8 of them. The total victories would seem to depend on how well LJ and Croyle play.

If LJ regains his old form, and Croyle plays well, the 2008 Chiefs could get to 9 wins. Considering the players released, it is hard to imagine that the Chiefs don't get more wins in 2008 than in 2007.

Brock
04-23-2008, 05:04 PM
If disliking a career loser head coach makes me "retarted" then I am a Down syndrome mother-effer. I will complain about Herm and/ or Carl as much as I like until they are either gone or do something to change my mind (improbable, based on history).

It's fine, if you really want to model yourself on Reerun.

el borracho
04-23-2008, 05:06 PM
I don't believe that Reerun and I are the only two who dislike Herm and/ or Carl.

Brock
04-23-2008, 05:09 PM
I don't believe that Reerun and I are the only two who dislike Herm and/ or Carl.

No, but he is the only one whose every post is about that very subject.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 05:10 PM
2-14 in 2008.

Yep, he has established a consistent patern.

HemiEd
04-23-2008, 05:12 PM
If disliking a career loser head coach makes me "retarted" then I am a Down syndrome mother-effer. I will complain about Herm and/ or Carl as much as I like until they are either gone or do something to change my mind (improbable, based on history).

This is now the Chiefs SB! 13 picks by the Genious!

Count Alex's Losses
04-23-2008, 05:17 PM
I don't believe that Reerun and I are the only two who dislike Herm and/ or Carl.

That doesn't invalidate everything they do.

el borracho
04-23-2008, 05:17 PM
No, but he is the only one whose every post is about that very subject.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to find the positives when it comes to the Chiefs or see any reason for excitement. Why Carl is still "wearing many hats" and why Mr. 52-60, crappy game day decision-maker is still the head coach I have no idea. This team is a downer.

Count Alex's Losses
04-23-2008, 05:18 PM
I am finding it increasingly difficult to find the positives when it comes to the Chiefs or see any reason for excitement. Why Carl is still "wearing many hats" and why Mr. 52-60, crappy game day decision-maker is still the head coach I have no idea. This team is a downer.

I've said it about a dozen times now but here it is again. If you really hate them that much, and believe they suck, they'll screw up this bounty of picks and be gone in 2 years.

el borracho
04-23-2008, 05:21 PM
That doesn't invalidate everything they do.

Maybe I'm just a sourpuss.

MahiMike
04-23-2008, 06:29 PM
Considering we had the most prolific offense in history before he came here and we were a couple guys away from a SB, I'd say I'm not impressed w/Herm's 7 year plan...

Fish
04-23-2008, 06:37 PM
Considering we had the most prolific offense in history before he came here and we were a couple guys away from a SB, I'd say I'm not impressed w/Herm's 7 year plan...

ROFL

Mr. Laz
04-23-2008, 06:38 PM
there will be more excuses later about why this isn't Herm's or Carl's fault ..... Don't worry.

OnTheWarpath58
04-23-2008, 06:44 PM
Considering we had the most prolific offense in history before he came here and we were a couple guys away from a SB, I'd say I'm not impressed w/Herm's 7 year plan...

If by a "couple" of guys, you mean 11 on defense, then maybe what I just read makes sense.

This team was NEVER close to a SB with Vermiel.

DenverDanChiefsFan
04-23-2008, 06:44 PM
2-14 in 2008.
Exactly - watching the shit remanents of the DV (geriatric) I look forward to the HE team.

Reerun_KC
04-23-2008, 06:52 PM
It's fine, if you really want to model yourself on Reerun.
Say what you want biggins, but I am not going to waver my distain for Herm... I haven't let up from day one, nor will I... Plus when you can back it up with stats and history, it is a pretty easy debate...

It sucks... This is some of the darkest days of the Chiefs I can remember. Yes I have been a fan going on 20 years now..

Just like some of you didn't like DV and continually bash his tenure here in KC, I will do the same for this lame duck we have now.

Reerun_KC
04-23-2008, 06:59 PM
I've said it about a dozen times now but here it is again. If you really hate them that much, and believe they suck, they'll screw up this bounty of picks and be gone in 2 years.

they should be gone in two years anyway... Carls time is done... Herm cant and will not lead a team to a superbowl...

All one can hope for is they leave enough talent for a new GM and a real NFL coach...........................

DenverDanChiefsFan
04-23-2008, 07:07 PM
Say what you want biggins, but I am not going to waver my distain for Herm... I haven't let up from day one, nor will I... Plus when you can back it up with stats and history, it is a pretty easy debate...

It sucks... This is some of the darkest days of the Chiefs I can remember. Yes I have been a fan going on 20 years now..

Just like some of you didn't like DV and continually bash his tenure here in KC, I will do the same for this lame duck we have now.

I love the kids responses. The first coach I really remenber is Wiggins (1975). Holy shit - the Chiefs sucked durihg this time - I was ****ing 2 when they won the SB

Reerun_KC
04-23-2008, 07:11 PM
I love the kids responses. The first coach I really remenber is Wiggins (1975). Holy shit - the Chiefs sucked durihg this time - I was ****ing 2 when they won the SB

ROFL....


Well those damned kids! LMAO....

Sadly, I dont remember the Jack Steadman years.. Lucky for me from what I hear the elders say.

I wasnt even born when the Chiefs won the superbowl!!!111eleven11!!!!

KCChiefsFan88
04-23-2008, 08:41 PM
Herm ran the Jets franchise into the ground before bailing on them. Entrusting Dictator Carl and Herm with the task of rebuilding a franchise is pretty scary

MadMax
04-23-2008, 08:52 PM
This is now the Chiefs SB! 13 picks by the Genious!


Is he a mastermind? A diabolical genious like " booger eater Shanarat " ? Be afraid I am. :eek: He does have a swole head btw. :) Kinda in an elongated sorta way.

BigChiefFan
04-23-2008, 09:47 PM
Considering we had the most prolific offense in history before he came here and we were a couple guys away from a SB, I'd say I'm not impressed w/Herm's 7 year plan...
Kick ass!:D

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-23-2008, 10:18 PM
Considering we had the most prolific offense in history before he came here and we were a couple guys away from a SB, I'd say I'm not impressed w/Herm's 7 year plan...

wait a minute, so if herm wasn't coach trent, roaf, and shields would still be here playing offense at a high level????? you can hate herm all you want, but this offense was going to collapse no matter who took over. we got old on offense....get over it!!!

Reerun_KC
04-23-2008, 11:08 PM
wait a minute, so if herm wasn't coach trent, roaf, and shields would still be here playing offense at a high level????? you can hate herm all you want, but this offense was going to collapse no matter who took over. we got old on offense....get over it!!!

Your right, but what pisses me off is Carl was so ****ing short sighted that he didnt find replacements and have them at least in the depth chart, while DV had to prove he was the mastermind behind the explosive offense... Carl had zero plans for the future with DV, they let it ride on that moment.

Then trade for a coach that was going to get shit canned for ineptness in NYJ...

:doh!: What was he thinking?

Pasta Giant Meatball
04-23-2008, 11:13 PM
Your right, but what pisses me off is Carl was so ****ing short sighted that he didnt find replacements and have them at least in the depth chart, while DV had to prove he was the mastermind behind the explosive offense... Carl had zero plans for the future with DV, they let it ride on that moment.

Then trade for a coach that was going to get shit canned for ineptness in NYJ...

:doh!: What was he thinking?

hey there is no room in this conversation for logic....trent, big willie, and shields were gonna play for all eternity in some people's minds (including carls)