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AJKCFAN
04-24-2008, 04:53 PM
Now more than ever, draft is vital to Chiefs' future
By Bill Williamson
ESPN.com

Jared Allen is the type of player around whom NFL franchises are built.

He is a defensive end, a position teams crave. He is 26. He led the league with 15 sacks last season. He is a fiery leader who never takes a play off. Allen is a perfect building block for a team that is trying to rebuild.

The Chiefs are in a rebuilding mode, so the trade of Allen to Minnesota appears to be a step backward for a franchise in need of franchise-type players. Because of Allen's desire for a new deal and the Chiefs' desire not to give it to him, the two sides have parted ways.

Losing Allen will hurt the Chiefs. But there is a way out for Kansas City. There is a way to survive the loss of a special player like Allen.

The Chiefs have to find three studs in this weekend's draft. After getting three picks -- a first-rounder and two third-rounders from Minnesota in exchange for Allen -- the Chiefs have the ability to get these players. Kansas City now has an NFL-high 13 picks in the seven-round draft. Six of the picks are in the first 82 choices. The Chiefs will have made six choices in the time AFC West foes Oakland and San Diego have made only one pick each.

Kansas City has an opportunity to rebuild and soften the punch of losing Allen by parlaying its load of picks into three great players. These are the players the Chiefs should target -- Chris Long, Ryan Clady and Joe Flacco.

It may require some on-the-clock maneuvering, but the Chiefs have the ammo. If the Chiefs can tuck themselves into bed Saturday night with this threesome secured, then the Allen trade would have been worth it.

Hashmarks

ESPN.com's Bill Williamson and our team of bloggers have the Jared Allen blockbuster trade covered from all the angles. Hashmarks
With the fifth overall pick, the Chiefs need to find their replacement for Allen. The top choice here is Long, son of Hall of Famer Howie. Long is similar to Allen. His motor never stops and he's a quarterback magnet. There is no guarantee Long will be there at No. 5, however. St. Louis at No. 2, or Oakland at No. 4 could nab him. If Long is gone, Ohio State defensive end Vernon Gholston should be on the board at No. 5 and he'll do just fine for the Chiefs in their need to replace Allen, but Long is the preference.


There are rumblings around the league the Chiefs stockpiled picks in the Allen trade in an attempt to trade up to No. 2 to steal Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan from the Falcons, who have the No. 3 pick. Although Ryan is a fine player, the Chiefs need to get their stud defensive lineman early instead. They can get their quarterback later while also grabbing other top defensive and offensive linemen.



The Chiefs must work on fixing their O-line problems at No. 17. The word around the league is the Chiefs covet Clady, the gigantic left tackle from Boise State. Kansas City may have to move up four to six spots to secure Clady, who would be the first block in reconstructing what used to be a great offensive line.



Kansas City then needs to work its way back into the first round and take a quarterback. The team needs to create competition for Brodie Croyle. The third-round pick in 2006 has yet to show he can be a franchise quarterback. With a load of draft picks, this is the time to find Croyle's competition.



Although Louisville's Brian Brohm and Michigan's Chad Henne are options, Kansas City should look at Delaware's Flacco, who many teams think is a shade below Ryan as a can't-miss prospect. Depending on what the Chiefs have to give up to get Clady, they could perhaps offer their second-round pick, No. 35, and one or two of their three third-rounders to trade into the back end of the first round to grab Flacco.



The rebuilding process in Kansas City will be off the ground and the trade of Allen will be validated if the Chiefs can pull off all of this.

Douche Baggins
04-24-2008, 04:58 PM
Wow, if we traded up for Ryan...they better be right.

Brock
04-24-2008, 05:00 PM
How come every one of these journalists, from the lowest moronic blogger (Nick), to the top guys at ESPN, cannot even agree on who these teams are supposedly hot and heavy for?

Mr. Arrowhead
04-24-2008, 05:01 PM
if we get a qb, i rather get a good OT with pick 11 like williams, Clady, or Alberts then wait in the 2nd round and get Flacco or Brohm

Micjones
04-24-2008, 05:10 PM
I think we should draft Ryan at #5 overall and look for OT help at 17.
Chris Williams should be there.

Direckshun
04-24-2008, 05:10 PM
LOL

kstater
04-24-2008, 05:11 PM
God help us if we trade up for Ryan.

Micjones
04-24-2008, 05:12 PM
LOL

Insightful.

Brock
04-24-2008, 05:15 PM
God help us if we trade up for Ryan.

He just might.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 05:16 PM
None of the top players should be passed up for Ryan. Just my opinion.

Pestilence
04-24-2008, 05:17 PM
Ummm....who says we have to trade up into the 1st round to get a QB?

You can easily get:

1a. Long/Ellis/Gholston
1b. C.Williams/Otah
2. Flacco/Henne


I'm not saying that we should go after these guys...but you don't have trade up all the time.

Micjones
04-24-2008, 05:18 PM
Ummm....who says we have to trade up into the 1st round to get a QB?

You can easily get:

1a. Long/Ellis/Gholston
1b. C.Williams/Otah
2. Flacco/Henne


I'm not saying that we should go after these guys...but you don't have trade up all the time.

Long/Williams/Flacco works for me.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 05:19 PM
Ummm....who says we have to trade up into the 1st round to get a QB?

You can easily get:

1a. Long/Ellis/Gholston
1b. C.Williams/Otah
2. Flacco/Henne


I'm not saying that we should go after these guys...but you don't have trade up all the time.

Yup.;)

HolmeZz
04-24-2008, 05:20 PM
I could live with taking Ryan at 5. Trading up for him would be inexcusable though.

ChiliConCarnage
04-24-2008, 05:27 PM
I read this earlier today and thought most of it was good except the Flacco part. I think taking Long or Gholston at 5 would be smart if available. It's a reach for most of the OT's. Trading up to Buffalo's 11 and getting our pick of the OT's would be great.

Next years draft looks to be sparse on top DT's and QB's. Something we'd have to find a way to address if it went down this way.

Delano
04-24-2008, 05:42 PM
The Chiefs have to find three studs in this weekend's draft. After getting three picks -- a first-rounder and two third-rounders from Minnesota in exchange for Allen -- the Chiefs have the ability to get these players. Kansas City now has an NFL-high 13 picks in the seven-round draft. Six of the picks are in the first 82 choices. The Chiefs will have made six choices in the time AFC West foes Oakland and San Diego have made only one pick each.

That excited me for a few seconds. Then I figured all that spare time during the draft will give rival fans the opportunity to scrutinize and mock KC's picks.

SBK
04-24-2008, 05:48 PM
That excited me for a few seconds. Then I figured all that spare time during the draft will give rival fans the opportunity to scrutinize and mock KC's picks.

Nope, they'll be saying "dammit" repeatedly.

banyon
04-24-2008, 05:49 PM
No Flacco for me thanks.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 07:30 PM
If they take Chris Long, Ryan Clady and Joe Flacco I will be pissed beyond belief way to pick 3 players that I don't want any of them.

Chiefmanwillcatch
04-24-2008, 07:46 PM
One Espn guy said the Vanderbilt OT is the best in this draft.

HolmeZz
04-24-2008, 07:51 PM
If they take Chris Long, Ryan Clady and Joe Flacco I will be pissed beyond belief way to pick 3 players that I don't want any of them.

:| You don't want Chris Long?

Mecca
04-24-2008, 07:52 PM
:| You don't want Chris Long?

Depends who else is there but I've discussed a few times why I don't like him that much. I think he'll be good but not a game changing great player...

banyon
04-24-2008, 07:53 PM
Depends who else is there but I've discussed a few times why I don't like him that much. I think he'll be good but not a game changing great player...

Justin Smith 2?

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:04 PM
Justin Smith 2?

There ya go.

HolmeZz
04-24-2008, 08:12 PM
Depends who else is there but I've discussed a few times why I don't like him that much. I think he'll be good but not a game changing great player...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4421569&postcount=8

Chris Long is going to be a star.......I think he's about the safest pick in the draft.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:21 PM
He is safe, and that star thing I've pulled back on that.....I think solid is what I'll say now solid-good.

shaneo69
04-24-2008, 08:57 PM
Next years draft looks to be sparse on top DT's and QB's. Something we'd have to find a way to address if it went down this way.

Tebow will still be available when we have the 1st overall pick.

HolmeZz
04-24-2008, 09:31 PM
Tebow will still be available when we have the 1st overall pick.

He said top QBs. The implication was that they be good NFL prospects.

Dylan
04-24-2008, 10:03 PM
If you’re looking for something to do, check out this blog.

Journalists at major news organizations are prohibited from affliating with any news outlet in print or online other than their own.

jonny gets to blog under an assumed name -- On this Web page, jonny introduces you to Bob McGinn, one of the top sports writers in the country -- johnny delivers good information that McGinn published and information McGinn did not publish on this year's draft.

The piece is called "What scouts actually believe (about the draft)." I'm also leaving a link to the first article that I Googled on McGinn's background.

If you want to see why major news organizations have no problem publishing McGinn's articles from Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, check out how he scouts out other teams. I was hysterical when a fan wrote, "How come this guy isn't writing for the Daily News. This was the best informational article I've ever seen about the Giants." LOL... TRUE...

2008 Draft information:
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=286671

Bob McGinn covers the Packers for Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. His background:
http://www.dailypress.net/page/content.detail/id/502920.html

A sample of what you get, when he breaks down your team:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2008/01/16/2008-01-16_how_the_milwaukee_journal_sentinel_is_sc-2.html

OMG... I hope it makes sense -- I gotta go... :D

Extra Point
04-24-2008, 10:10 PM
The biggest surprise in the draft (or un-draft) is the QB from Tulsa. That kid is the shit.

banyon
04-24-2008, 10:18 PM
Interesting links Dylan. Like the snippet about Frank Okam:

10. FRANK OKAM, Texas (6-4, 335, 5.27, 4) - Enormous run stuffer. "He's got ability to do whatever he wants to do," one scout said. "Those guys, if they're that massive and have some quickness to them, they're hard to block." Had 10 sacks and 160 tackles in 50 games (39 starts). "I'm going to give him to you," another scout said. Plans to attend law school; scored 39 on the Wonderlic. "That's probably why he doesn't play better," a third scout said. "He probably realizes he could get hurt inside there. The guys that are dumb, they don't care."

Logical
04-24-2008, 10:19 PM
I read this earlier today and thought most of it was good except the Flacco part. I think taking Long or Gholston at 5 would be smart if available. It's a reach for most of the OT's. Trading up to Buffalo's 11 and getting our pick of the OT's would be great.

Next years draft looks to be sparse on top DT's and QB's. Something we'd have to find a way to address if it went down this way.Not when you will be picking first like the Chiefs will next year (fingers crossed that I am wrong and we are picking 2nd).

oaklandhater
04-25-2008, 04:45 AM
If they take Chris Long, Ryan Clady and Joe Flacco I will be pissed beyond belief way to pick 3 players that I don't want any of them.

I'm sorry mecca I usually agree with everything you say but if we get that draft it would probably be the most solid draft ever in chiefs history.

BigRedChief
04-25-2008, 05:18 AM
If they think Ryan is the man and Brodie can't cut it in the NFL they have to go get Ryan. This is as close as we will probably ever get to landing the consensus top QB in a draft.

But if this ESPN rumor is true, King Carl screwed up again. And he has set us back another year or two. Or if Brodie isn't the man he has set us back a year or two.

PhillyChiefFan
04-25-2008, 05:44 AM
I read this earlier today and thought most of it was good except the Flacco part. I think taking Long or Gholston at 5 would be smart if available. It's a reach for most of the OT's. Trading up to Buffalo's 11 and getting our pick of the OT's would be great.

Next years draft looks to be sparse on top DT's and QB's. Something we'd have to find a way to address if it went down this way.

Welcome to the planet!

I would love Long/Williams/Brohm, and I really don't think that we stockpiled all of these picks to throw weight around. Edwards went on record saying that we need 7 or 8 starters. History has shown that many of those 13 picks will be busts, if we are going to start over Long/Williams/Brohm would be a great start IMO. Gholston is smaller than Long, and we already have a small DE.

PhillyChiefFan
04-25-2008, 05:44 AM
If they think Ryan is the man and Brodie can't cut it in the NFL they have to go get Ryan. This is as close as we will probably ever get to landing the consensus top QB in a draft.

But if this ESPN rumor is true, King Carl screwed up again. And he has set us back another year or two. Or if Brodie isn't the man he has set us back a year or two.

Do you think we should trade picks to grab Ryan?

BigRedChief
04-25-2008, 05:59 AM
Do you think we should trade picks to grab Ryan?
If Herm thinks Ryan is the man and doesn't really know if Brodie is the man? Yes, we should make the trade.

I don't know if Brodie is the man or not. We haven't seen him enough to make a decision. But Herm has seen him for two years in practice, see how he preps for games, gets along with teammates in the locker room etc.

If they do this we are set back another year or two in re-building and they are admitting a mistake in Brodie. So even if they think this they probably won't pull the trigger. We just have to hope Brodie is the man.

PhillyChiefFan
04-25-2008, 06:04 AM
If Herm thinks Ryan is the man and doesn't really know if Brodie is the man? Yes, we should make the trade.

I don't know if Brodie is the man or not. We haven't seen him enough to make a decision. But Herm has seen him for two years in practice, see how he preps for games, gets along with teammates in the locker room etc.

If they do this we are set back another year or two in re-building and they are admitting a mistake in Brodie. So even if they think this they probably won't pull the trigger. We just have to hope Brodie is the man.

Well said. I personally don't believe that Brodie is it. However, I feel like I should give him his due, he had an abysmal oline, if we have protection for him I would like to think that he could be a good QB.

No matter what happens, we should get a top flight player, provided we don't reach that is.

StcChief
04-25-2008, 07:41 AM
no reach BPA. all day. Our needs are great in all areas. 13 picks, if 7 hit we had a great draft.

Chiefnj2
04-25-2008, 08:05 AM
So much BS in the last 48 hours. This guy says the Chiefs covet Clady while everyone else says they covet Albert & Otah.

markk
04-25-2008, 08:07 AM
5. ellis/long/whoever
17. williams
rd 2 - brohm
thereafter - more o/d linemen

mlyonsd
04-25-2008, 08:09 AM
This is the part I like...
The Chiefs will have made six choices in the time AFC West foes Oakland and San Diego have made only one pick each.



Don't screw it up Carl.

ROYC75
04-25-2008, 08:14 AM
Do you think we should trade picks to grab Ryan?


No, I could live with Flacco or Henne and keep the picks .......... If we move up any, it will be minimal to secure one of them.

tiptap
04-25-2008, 08:16 AM
So do you need the QB that is the engine of the offense. The offense of the Colts and New England represent that kind of need in the offense by the QB. On the other hand you can have a HB be the engine. This example would be San Diego and Pittsburgs winning year. The mismatch comes from the play of the running game generated by the RB or by the line play.

Both offenses need the other part like Colts running game in a big lead or your QB is capable of doing it in the air to get back in the game for a team like Steelers. KC's offense is suppose to be more like Pittsburg. If that is the case in evaluating QB talent, unless it is overwhelmingly clear that the QB is the best talent and in years, you don't reach because the QB's just has to be good. Get the best talent. I think that is the case here. Ryan may be good but I don't think he is that much better than Brodie. I think our need is on the line play both sides. Get it done there.

Delano
04-25-2008, 08:23 AM
Just out of curiosity, does Chris Williams have the skills to play other line positions, other than left tackle?

Molitoth
04-25-2008, 08:27 AM
If they take Chris Long, Ryan Clady and Joe Flacco I will be pissed beyond belief way to pick 3 players that I don't want any of them.

Stupid.

TEX
04-25-2008, 08:39 AM
I understand Long & Clady, but the Chiefs better not move up to take Ryan. If he falls to us at # 5 - great. If not, we can take a QB later. If we're gonna move up, it should be to # 11 to try and get Williams. I also don't agree with trading back into the 1st for Flacco. We can simply use one of our 3rds for Ainge instead, to provide competition for Croyle.

I'll be very happy if we get Long, (Williams/Clady), Ainge at the end of the day. Or if we don't even get a QB and get a strong CB prospect with Long,(Williams/Clady).

I do think that Croyle needs the competition (Actually I think he needs to be replaced), but that can be done later.

PhillyChiefFan
04-25-2008, 08:59 AM
Just out of curiosity, does Chris Williams have the skills to play other line positions, other than left tackle?

As I understand it Long, Clady, Otah and Williams are the only true LT top talents. I would love to get Williams at 17...but I would be happy to get Clady there too, but I highly doubt that Clady will be there. Williams is 6-6 320...then move him to RT next year and grab Oher!

Chiefnj2
04-25-2008, 09:11 AM
Just out of curiosity, does Chris Williams have the skills to play other line positions, other than left tackle?

He projects best to the LOT spot. He's got good feet, but isn't a particularly nasty mauler that you would like at ROT or guard.

Chiefnj2
04-25-2008, 09:12 AM
As I understand it Long, Clady, Otah and Williams are the only true LT top talents. I would love to get Williams at 17...but I would be happy to get Clady there too, but I highly doubt that Clady will be there. Williams is 6-6 320...then move him to RT next year and grab Oher!

I'd add Baker as a LT as well. You don't start at LOT for 4 years in a program at USC by being an average player.

markk
04-25-2008, 09:15 AM
this just in... i have a source claiming that if Ryan is available at 5, the chiefs will listen to any other offers but tenatively have an agreement to swap with Baltimore for a 2nd round pick, and that the Chiefs intend to target Clady at 8.

take it for what it's worth. i have no reason to doubt this individual but they have no specific credibility other than being in a position where some info might pass by them. And this individual was correct about thinking Bowe would be the pick last year...

PhillyChiefFan
04-25-2008, 09:17 AM
I'd add Baker as a LT as well. You don't start at LOT for 4 years in a program at USC by being an average player.

Ah baker slipped my mind, you are correct. I believe he will be a good NFL LT, maybe an even better RT.

PhillyChiefFan
04-25-2008, 09:19 AM
this just in... i have a source claiming that if Ryan is available at 5, the chiefs will listen to any other offers but tenatively have an agreement to swap with Baltimore for a 2nd round pick, and that the Chiefs intend to target Clady at 8.

take it for what it's worth. i have no reason to doubt this individual but they have no specific credibility other than being in a position where some info might pass by them.

Say we do take Clady, I'd like to know some other people's thoughts on #17 then ???

markk
04-25-2008, 09:34 AM
Say we do take Clady, I'd like to know some other people's thoughts on #17 then ???

No idea. Maybe our Guard will still be there.

ChiefButthurt
04-25-2008, 10:05 AM
Hmmmm....let me see. We had a top shelf DE last year and a shitty team with a poor O-line. Sooooo we trade that player away and talk about replacing that player with the #5 pick in the draft. If they have two ounces of brain, they will stick with the offense needs, no matter who is available. As my mother would say....."you made this bed....now ****ing lie in it".

PhillyChiefFan
04-25-2008, 10:37 AM
Hmmmm....let me see. We had a top shelf DE last year and a shitty team with a poor O-line. Sooooo we trade that player away and talk about replacing that player with the #5 pick in the draft. If they have two ounces of brain, they will stick with the offense needs, no matter who is available. As my mother would say....."you made this bed....now ****ing lie in it".

Your mother is a wise woman. Stick to the original plan and draft offensively. If we draft at #5 a DE to replace JA, then basically all we got is 2 3rd rounders for the best DE in the AFC if not the NFL.

markk
04-25-2008, 11:07 AM
i think they should take the best player available with each pick. we have too many holes to try to plug holes.

crazycoffey
04-25-2008, 11:15 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=4421569&postcount=8



ROFL - I love it. Mecca, as always, showing how full of crap he is. Just a pot stirring A-hole

markk
04-25-2008, 12:25 PM
ROFL - I love it. Mecca, as always, showing how full of crap he is. Just a pot stirring A-hole

that's funny. but no different than others i guess. everyone seems to get high and low and high again on these players over time

Mecca
04-25-2008, 02:18 PM
I'm not allowed to change my opinion apparently....

Anyhow even of Long is better than I expect I don't like those 3 it isn't solid or even good. Flacco is the classic QB who busts and I don't see it at all with Ryan Clady.

KChiefs1
12-27-2008, 10:51 AM
still an interesting article to read.

Pestilence
12-27-2008, 11:16 AM
Long, Clady and Flacco. Imagine if we got them.

milkman
12-27-2008, 11:20 AM
Long, Clady and Flacco. Imagine if we got them.

I still don't like Long.

He gets a lot of help against speed rushers still, and I don't really see that changing anytime soon.

jidar
12-27-2008, 11:22 AM
If they take Chris Long, Ryan Clady and Joe Flacco I will be pissed beyond belief way to pick 3 players that I don't want any of them.

oooucchhh

That has to be one of the most wrong draft posts in the history of this board.

Brock
12-27-2008, 11:23 AM
I'm not allowed to change my opinion apparently....

Anyhow even of Long is better than I expect I don't like those 3 it isn't solid or even good. Flacco is the classic QB who busts and I don't see it at all with Ryan Clady.

You probably ought to change it again.

Mr. Laz
12-27-2008, 11:28 AM
I still don't like Long.

He gets a lot of help against speed rushers still, and I don't really see that changing anytime soon.
he's talking about getting CHRIS Long not jake

DE Long
OT Clady
QB Flacco

milkman
12-27-2008, 11:34 AM
he's talking about getting CHRIS Long not jake

DE Long
OT Clady
QB Flacco

In that case,


Never mind.

DaneMcCloud
12-27-2008, 11:47 AM
If they take Chris Long, Ryan Clady and Joe Flacco I will be pissed beyond belief way to pick 3 players that I don't want any of them.

Best post ever!

Mecca, the draft genius.

:D

Mr. Laz
12-27-2008, 11:58 AM
Best post ever!

Mecca, the draft genius.

:D

heh .... someone needs to have that as their signature to remind the "king of kings" that he's not as smart as he INSISTS he is

Short Leash Hootie
12-27-2008, 12:37 PM
I'm not allowed to change my opinion apparently....

Anyhow even of Long is better than I expect I don't like those 3 it isn't solid or even good. Flacco is the classic QB who busts and I don't see it at all with Ryan Clady.

our chiefsplanet draft guru ladies and gentlemen!

blueballs
12-27-2008, 12:39 PM
Clark just scratched Mecca
off the short list

doomy3
12-27-2008, 12:41 PM
But, but, but don't forget Mecca wanted us to draft Cromartie. He still has that...

Short Leash Hootie
12-27-2008, 12:47 PM
But, but, but don't forget Mecca wanted us to draft Cromartie. He still has that...

he came back down to earth this year...

Mr. Flopnuts
12-27-2008, 01:00 PM
Oh

RINGLEADER
12-27-2008, 01:08 PM
Sorry but I don't get the love affair with Flacco. Only reason he doesn't have more INTs is because of the defense. Whenever he has to bring the team from behind or posts more than 30 throws the team loses and he throws multiple picks. He's 3-5 when he throws more than 25 times. For the season (starting 15 games) Tyler Thigpen has more TDs in 9 games than Flacco has in 15 and, if you extrapolate his numbers out, he has maybe 3 more INTs. If Flacco had played for the Chiefs with this defense he'd have about 25 INTs by now. As far as accuracy goes they're almost the same (high 50's) and Thigpen's passer rating since becoming the full-time starter is almost ten points higher.

Still don't understand why people want to use a high draft pick to develop a QB when we already have a QB who can fit that role nicely (without burning a high draft pick).

cdcox
12-27-2008, 01:30 PM
Sorry but I don't get the love affair with Flacco. Only reason he doesn't have more INTs is because of the defense. Whenever he has to bring the team from behind or posts more than 30 throws the team loses and he throws multiple picks. He's 3-5 when he throws more than 25 times. For the season (starting 15 games) Tyler Thigpen has more TDs in 9 games than Flacco has in 15 and, if you extrapolate his numbers out, he has maybe 3 more INTs. If Flacco had played for the Chiefs with this defense he'd have about 25 INTs by now. As far as accuracy goes they're almost the same (high 50's) and Thigpen's passer rating since becoming the full-time starter is almost ten points higher.

Still don't understand why people want to use a high draft pick to develop a QB when we already have a QB who can fit that role nicely (without burning a high draft pick).

I agree with you that Flacco still has a long way to go to proving that he was a good draft choice. In the same way, Thigpen still has a long way to go to prove that he is a franchise QB. Either could further develop or either could bust out.

I'd still rather take a QB worthy of a top 5 pick and take my chances on developing a true franchise QB, than hope one of these guys develop. While Flacco or Thigpen could reach franchise level, the chances are much better that they plateau out somewhere near the Kerry Collins, Jim Harbaugh, Bill Kenny range. Good enough to fool you into thinking you have a QB, but never quite getting there. I could be wrong about these two, but if I had to call it, that's the way I see it right now.

BCD
12-27-2008, 01:36 PM
Flacco is the classic QB who busts and I don't see it at all with Ryan Clady.ROFL

BCD
12-27-2008, 01:39 PM
Long, Clady and Flacco. Imagine if we got them.Yup. Clady is a push, however, since Albert is just as good.

BCD
12-27-2008, 01:40 PM
Clark just scratched Mecca
off the short listLMAO

BCD
12-27-2008, 01:43 PM
Still don't understand why people want to use a high draft pick to develop a QB when we already have a QB who can fit that role nicely (without burning a high draft pick).All kinds of stupid in this post...

bowener
12-27-2008, 01:44 PM
Yup. Clady is a push, however, since Albert is just as good.

I consider Albert to be better. He may have given up 4 more sacks, but having this coaching staff has to give you at least a 5 sack disadvantage, maybe even 6 or 7. So if that is the case, he is at least 1/2 a sack better than Clady thus far in his career, aaaaaaaaaaannd he has done this not only with Herm and Co. but he has yet to commit an illegal-donkey-block, which in my book makes him ROTY material.

JASONSAUTO
12-27-2008, 02:10 PM
I'm not allowed to change my opinion apparently....

Anyhow even of Long is better than I expect I don't like those 3 it isn't solid or even good. Flacco is the classic QB who busts and I don't see it at all with Ryan Clady.

well at least mecca was right:rolleyes:

mylittlepony
12-27-2008, 02:33 PM
Vince Young and Joe Thomas were both probowlers their first year and followed it up how? They were both great picks or no?

JASONSAUTO
12-27-2008, 02:39 PM
Vince Young and Joe Thomas were both probowlers their first year and followed it up how? They were both great picks or no?

what's wrong with joe thomas?

DaneMcCloud
12-27-2008, 02:48 PM
Vince Young and Joe Thomas were both probowlers their first year and followed it up how? They were both great picks or no?

Vince Young was a replacement Pro Bowl QB in 2007, his second year.

And he's a head case.

Basileus777
12-27-2008, 02:51 PM
what's wrong with joe thomas?

He's played like shit this year.

JASONSAUTO
12-27-2008, 02:58 PM
He's played like shit this year.

i'm not sure thats how its gone down, but i've only seen a couple of their games

mylittlepony
12-27-2008, 03:19 PM
i'm not sure thats how its gone down, but i've only seen a couple of their games

Freeny handled him pretty good. But in all honesty they have faced alot harder schedule this year. He has lined up against:

M.Williams
D.Freeny
D.Ware
M.Kiwanuka
T.Suggs
J.Harrison

Thats a pretty good group right there.

Mecca
12-27-2008, 04:28 PM
ROFL

Laugh all you want, but given the situation that he came from, I will play the odds on that every single time and say pass.

Guys who go from 3rd round picks to 1st round picks on arm strength and workouts should raise flags, will some of them workout, sure. Or you could end up with Kyle Boller, you play the odds on that situation.

With the draft you're playing odds, Flacco to me was an extremely risky proposition, I think Chris Long is close to maxed out and Ryan Clady got drafted to a team that suits him well, I don't think he'd look quite that good without that scheme.

bsp4444
12-27-2008, 04:41 PM
Laugh all you want, but given the situation that he came from, I will play the odds on that every single time and say pass.

Guys who go from 3rd round picks to 1st round picks on arm strength and workouts should raise flags, will some of them workout, sure. Or you could end up with Kyle Boller, you play the odds on that situation.

With the draft you're playing odds, Flacco to me was an extremely risky proposition, I think Chris Long is close to maxed out and Ryan Clady got drafted to a team that suits him well, I don't think he'd look quite that good without that scheme.

Wow! That was close, for a minute I thought you might have made some bad judgement in your pre-draft analysis. But you have put ALL those contradictions to rest.

Dude, can't you just say you are surprised they are doing as well as they are and you may have been mistaken!

Mecca
12-27-2008, 04:47 PM
Wow! That was close, for a minute I thought you might have made some bad judgement in your pre-draft analysis. But you have put ALL those contradictions to rest.

Dude, can't you just say you are surprised they are doing as well as they are and you may have been mistaken!

I'm not surprised, the draft is a guessing game, it's like trying to predict the weather. You make educated guesses based off history and what you know of a said player, even if you're really good at it you're going to be wrong alot.

doomy3
12-27-2008, 05:56 PM
I'm not surprised, the draft is a guessing game, it's like trying to predict the weather. You make educated guesses based off history and what you know of a said player, even if you're really good at it you're going to be wrong alot.

And if you're not very good at it at all, but think you know everything about it, then you're going to miss on 3 picks all in one post.

crazycoffey
12-27-2008, 06:36 PM
heh .... someone needs to have that as their signature to remind the "king of kings" that he's not as smart as he INSISTS he is


I must admit, I'm surprised that I'm not doing this....

crazycoffey
12-27-2008, 06:39 PM
With the draft you're playing odds,

Exactly the point I've tried making with you many times, the problem is I see the odds comparable to playing roulette with one chip and you probably Think its like betting on craps when someone else is throwing the dice.

Ultra Peanut
12-27-2008, 08:45 PM
Honestly, Mecca's right.

boogblaster
12-27-2008, 09:20 PM
The needs have been narrowed down some .. hopefully some more good young guys and a few free agents with something left in the tank will come our way ...

Basileus777
12-27-2008, 09:32 PM
No one on this board was ever in a position to judge Flacco as a prospect. No one here ever saw him play; anyone's opinion on him was just gut feeling or conjecture based on scouting reports.

And Flacco was a late first round pick anyway; not all that risky of a pick.

I'm still not sold on Long. Clady however, has been impressive and attributing it to Denver's scheme is bit misleading. A good portion of the league uses zone blocking schemes now, and those schemes don't affect pass blocking which is where Clady has been the most impressive.

cdcox
12-27-2008, 09:42 PM
Some of you are acting like Flacco has arrived. Far, far from it. It's way too early to tell if he was a good pick or not.

ChiefsCountry
12-27-2008, 09:43 PM
No one on this board was ever in a position to judge Flacco as a prospect. No one here ever saw him play; anyone's opinion on him was just gut feeling or conjecture based on scouting reports.


I watched him play UNI and Southern Illinois. So that blows that theory out of the water.

Basileus777
12-27-2008, 09:46 PM
I watched him play UNI and Southern Illinois. So that blows that theory out of the water.

Well I guess that's what happens when you generalize too much. But how many other people commenting on Flacco as a prospect actually saw him play?

ChiefsCountry
12-27-2008, 09:47 PM
Well I guess that's what happens when you generalize too much. But how many other people commenting on Flacco as a prospect actually saw him play?

Well he did play on ESPN 4 times.

DenverDanChiefsFan
12-27-2008, 10:00 PM
Well he did play on ESPN 4 times.Are you seriously saying that you can judge a kids college carreer on 4 nationally televised games?

WTF do NFL teams have scouting departments then. Seems really easy your way.:shake:

ChiefsCountry
12-27-2008, 10:04 PM
Are you seriously saying that you can judge a kids college carreer on 4 nationally televised games?

WTF do NFL teams have scouting departments then. Seems really easy your way.:shake:

Hmm he asked if people saw him. Some of you are just trying to stir shit up in these draft discussions I swear.

beach tribe
12-28-2008, 02:23 AM
If they take Chris Long, Ryan Clady and Joe Flacco I will be pissed beyond belief way to pick 3 players that I don't want any of them.

LOL you really know you're shit.

BCD
12-28-2008, 03:02 AM
With the draft you're playing odds, ______ to me was an extremely risky proposition, I think _______ is close to maxed out and _______ got drafted to a team that suits him well, I don't think he'd look quite that good without that scheme.I suppose you could just use this for an auto-response for the next time you wiff. Just fill in the blanks...

beach tribe
12-28-2008, 03:05 AM
I suppose you could just use this for an auto-response for the next time you wiff. Just fill in the blanks...

Nope. That's the last time you'll hear him give a definitive opinion on anyone.

Douche Baggins
12-28-2008, 03:09 AM
In defense of Mecca, he only whiffed on one of them definitively. The other two could still be busts...

Mecca
12-28-2008, 04:39 AM
You win some you lose some, we can all toot our horns after 1 year but really we'll see in 3 years, the view of Tamba Hali today is wildly different than it was at the end of his 1st season.

EyePod
12-28-2008, 07:24 AM
But, but, but don't forget Mecca wanted us to draft Cromartie. He still has that...

DRC is one of the best rookie corners. He would have been a waste in the Cover 2. If Herm leaves, he may have been great here though. 2nd, I'm sure everyone thought Flacco would be terrible. And he hasn't been great. He has been ehh. The Ravens are really coddling him. They aren't stupid like us, and making him throw 900% of the time, esp. when we have a pro-bowl back at RB. I still don't like Flacco. Now Matt Ryan on the other hand... jesus christ he is a stud who I thought would be terrible.

EyePod
12-28-2008, 07:29 AM
Well I guess that's what happens when you generalize too much. But how many other people commenting on Flacco as a prospect actually saw him play?

A classmate of mine's family is best friends with the Flacco's. They have barbecue's together all of the time. She's seen him play before... I can get her on here! ;)

58-4ever
12-28-2008, 07:40 AM
A classmate of mine's family is best friends with the Flacco's. They have barbecue's together all of the time. She's seen him play before... I can get her on here! ;)

OMG, you are soooo kewl!!

milkman
12-28-2008, 07:49 AM
Are you seriously saying that you can judge a kids college carreer on 4 nationally televised games?

WTF do NFL teams have scouting departments then. Seems really easy your way.:shake:

There aren't any of us that see every player more than a few times, except for the people who are the fans of specific college teams.

We all have to form opinions on far more limited info than pro scouts.

The chances are greater that we will be wrong for us, but it's all we have to work with.

But if we didn't express our opinions, then what the hell would we have to talk about?

I'll take the chance to be wrong for the entertainment of the debate.

And of course when I'm right. I'm going to pat myself on the back like I'm some kind of CP genious.

ChiefsCountry
12-28-2008, 07:51 AM
DRC is one of the best rookie corners. He would have been a waste in the Cover 2. If Herm leaves, he may have been great here though. 2nd, I'm sure everyone thought Flacco would be terrible. And he hasn't been great. He has been ehh. The Ravens are really coddling him. They aren't stupid like us, and making him throw 900% of the time, esp. when we have a pro-bowl back at RB. I still don't like Flacco. Now Matt Ryan on the other hand... jesus christ he is a stud who I thought would be terrible.

Wrong Cromartie.