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View Full Version : Chiefs Plain and Simple: We Need The Rams To Select Dorsey


Marco Polo
04-24-2008, 06:50 PM
I think for us to get the maximum value at #5 and select Long/Gholston, we need the Rams to select Dorsey.

If the Rams select Long, the Falcons will almost certainly pick Dorsey. Dorsey is now a pipe dream.

However, if the Rams select Dorsey, there is a strong chance the Falcons pick Ryan at 3. If that situation happens, we are guaranteed to get either Long or Gholston.

Win-win for the Long/Gholston scenario. But for that to happen, the Rams need to select Dorsey.

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 06:54 PM
Agreed, the Raiders would likely pick Gholston/Long anyway

Basileus777
04-24-2008, 06:56 PM
Agreed, the Raiders would likely pick Gholston/Long anyway

And drafting whichever of those left which be great. I agree, the Rams drafting Dorsey or the Falcons drafting Ryan is key for us.

kcfan82
04-24-2008, 06:58 PM
Funny how it all hinges on Adam Carriker....

The Rams get Dorsey they move Carriker back outside, and if they take Long they keep him at DT.

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 06:59 PM
If those main guys are gone i'd be disappointed if we didn't draft Ellis, i really don't think i want Ryan right now.

Basileus777
04-24-2008, 07:01 PM
If those main guys are gone i'd be disappointed if we didn't draft Ellis, i really don't think i want Ryan right now.

Definitely. I'll go crazy if we reach for an OT like Albert instead of taking Ellis.

catfish307
04-24-2008, 07:02 PM
I'd rather have Dorsey over Gholston but he wont make it to #5 and the Falcons will take Ryan.

big nasty kcnut
04-24-2008, 07:14 PM
Yes we need long now. Then get a good ol

Mecca
04-24-2008, 07:33 PM
Must just me but I don't think Chris Long is all that great.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 07:34 PM
Must just me but I don't think Chris Long is all that great.
It's just you.

eazyb81
04-24-2008, 07:39 PM
Eh, I'm not all that pumped about taking Long or Gholston. Frankly, I think they're both a bit overrated.

Right now I really want Ryan, but if we're set on Ellis then I'd be fine with him as well.

eazyb81
04-24-2008, 07:39 PM
Must just me but I don't think Chris Long is all that great.

He reminds me of Justin Smith. A good all-around DE, but not a superstar.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 07:42 PM
He reminds me of Justin Smith. A good all-around DE, but not a superstar.

That is exactly what I think about him..

Long isn't very risky but his upside isn't nearly the same, I question if he can ever be a dominant game changing player. I think he'll be a good player...not sure about anything more.

wazu
04-24-2008, 07:46 PM
I'm hoping for Clady. Don't believe the anti-hype. He's not a reach, and won't be there at 17.

stlchiefs
04-24-2008, 07:47 PM
A Post-Dispatch reporter for the Ram's here in St. Louis says it looks like the Ram's will be taking Dorsey. It could also be a smokescreen for all you know.

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bernies-extra-points/bernies-extra-points/2008/04/rams-pick-looks-like-dorsey/

Marco Polo
04-24-2008, 07:47 PM
I'm hoping for Clady. Don't believe the anti-hype. He's not a reach, and won't be there at 17.

This is honestly the first time I've heard this on the planet.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 07:48 PM
I'm hoping for Clady. Don't believe the anti-hype. He's not a reach, and won't be there at 17.

If they take him at 5 I will find where you live and castrate you.

oaklandhater
04-24-2008, 07:53 PM
This is honestly the first time I've heard this on the planet.

alot of draftbords haveing us take otah or clady with 5 which is a reach = Classic Carl.

ceebz
04-24-2008, 07:53 PM
Not high on C.Long or Gholston. I don't think Long is of elite ability and Gholston is being overrated because of his workouts.

I really like the scenario where the Chiefs drop back to seven and pick up Ellis.

UncleChief83
04-24-2008, 07:54 PM
i dont see a lot of fans here that are sold on ryan. I think matt ryan has a lot fo tangibles of being a solid professional QB in the the NFL. He had some solid years at BC. He's not a one year wonder. Him and Brohm are the only QBs that had several good years in college. I know we need a lot of needs, but a top 5 QB? we wont be in this position again for a while i bet. OL is deep in this draft. I mean, at this point, I'd be pretty satisfied with whoever we get at 5. i know we'll get a very good player at 5. Is it just me? Come on, why are there a lot of people not sold on him?

Mecca
04-24-2008, 07:55 PM
You are aware that Gholston in 2 seasons had 22 sacks and 30 tackles for loss right?

It's like people don't think he produced, makes no sense.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 07:55 PM
i dont see a lot of fans here that are sold on ryan. I think matt ryan has a lot fo tangibles of being a solid professional QB in the the NFL. He had some solid years at BC. He's not a one year wonder. Him and Brohm are the only QBs that had several good years in college. I know we need a lot of needs, but a top 5 QB? we wont be in this position again for a while i bet. OL is deep in this draft. I mean, at this point, I'd be pretty satisfied with whoever we get at 5. i know we'll get a very good player at 5. Is it just me? Come on, why are there a lot of people not sold on him?

Because see people here like Brittle Croyle, or think unless the guy is John Elway they don't want to draft him with a top 5 pick.

Molitoth
04-24-2008, 07:56 PM
screw that, we need the Rams to pick anyone but Long or Dorsey. I hope they take Ellis or Gholston.

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 07:56 PM
You are aware that Gholston in 2 seasons had 22 sacks and 30 tackles for loss right?

It's like people don't think he produced, makes no sense.

but but but he has no position and is under sized/merriman wanna be

Marco Polo
04-24-2008, 07:56 PM
alot of draftbords haveing us take otah or clady with 5 which is a reach = Classic Carl.

I'm sorry, what I meant was this was the first post I've seen where a Chiefs fan actually wants Clady at 5

Deberg_1990
04-24-2008, 07:56 PM
Come on, why are there a lot of people not sold on him?

Because hes not John Elway. ROFL

Marco Polo
04-24-2008, 07:57 PM
screw that, we need the Rams to pick anyone but Long or Dorsey. I hope they take Ellis or Gholston.

While I certainly agree with you, we have to be realistic about it.

kcfan82
04-24-2008, 07:57 PM
You are aware that Gholston in 2 seasons had 22 sacks and 30 tackles for loss right?

It's like people don't think he produced, makes no sense.

I agree, those people listen too much to Kevin Kietzman.

ceebz
04-24-2008, 07:59 PM
You are aware that Gholston in 2 seasons had 22 sacks and 30 tackles for loss right?

It's like people don't think he produced, makes no sense.
I watch you point out that Allen disappears in games all the time. Well, so does Gholston, except he does it at the college level.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 07:59 PM
I think it's funny when a guy has an awesome workout and produced that doesn't mean he's just a workout warrior. It means he's a productive player with ridiculous upside. Not every guy who is productive is Tamba Hali without much upside or a mostly finished product.

BigVE
04-24-2008, 08:00 PM
Funny thing is most expert draft boards still haven't caught up with the fact that we now have pick 17 too. THAT alone changes alot of strategies.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:00 PM
I watch you point out that Allen disappears in games all the time. Well, so does Gholston, except he does it at the college level.

And how many games of Gholston have you seen....I love when people read scouting reports and pick and choose what they want to hear or listen to some guy on TV.

ceebz
04-24-2008, 08:01 PM
And how many games of Gholston have you seen....I love when people read scouting reports and pick and choose what they want to hear or listen to some guy on TV.

My apologies, I forgot you were an NFL scout.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:02 PM
Are these stats correct? Gholston tackles 37? 37?! Long 79!

for loss 14 19

sacks 15.5 14.5

and gholston went sackless in 5 games racking up multi sack games against inferior comprtition. I like the guy just saying. He seems inconsistent, and not so good vs the run.

Ignore my layout I;m drunk.

BigVE
04-24-2008, 08:03 PM
There are soooo many scenarios that could work out in our favor. Why? Because we have SO many needs. Depending on who is already gone of course I would be happy with any of these: (my personal favorites in order) Dorsey, Ellis, Long, Gholston, Ryan. Ellis is my pick.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:03 PM
Remember Virginia plays 3-4 and Long is much more of the man there where Gholston is playing with other 1st round talent, don't overrate college stats.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:05 PM
My apologies, I forgot you were an NFL scout.

he'll get his chance to show us what he's got in the draft challenge.

Coogs
04-24-2008, 08:05 PM
I think for us to get the maximum value at #5 and select Long/Gholston, we need the Rams to select Dorsey.

If the Rams select Long, the Falcons will almost certainly pick Dorsey. Dorsey is now a pipe dream.

However, if the Rams select Dorsey, there is a strong chance the Falcons pick Ryan at 3. If that situation happens, we are guaranteed to get either Long or Gholston.

Win-win for the Long/Gholston scenario. But for that to happen, the Rams need to select Dorsey.

And I want the Rams to select Long so we have a shot at Ryan. Go figure! :shrug:

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:06 PM
I wish he'd have a better comeback than that, really argue your point don't go "oh yea what the hell do you know?" Because I can do that same shit back to you....it was a simple question how many games of his have you watched?

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:09 PM
Remember Virginia plays 3-4 and Long is much more of the man there where Gholston is playing with other 1st round talent, don't overrate college stats.

I thought payers stats should be better with a good surounding cast.

kcfan82
04-24-2008, 08:11 PM
Are these stats correct? Gholston tackles 37? 37?! Long 79!

for loss 14 19

sacks 15.5 14.5

and gholston went sackless in 5 games racking up multi sack games against inferior comprtition. I like the guy just saying. He seems inconsistent, and not so good vs the run.

Ignore my layout I;m drunk.


It's also safe to mention the ACC stunk up the NCAA this year.

Coogs
04-24-2008, 08:11 PM
I wish he'd have a better comeback than that, really argue your point don't go "oh yea what the hell do you know?" Because I can do that same shit back to you....it was a simple question how many games of his have you watched?


Watched ESPN SportsCenter Special tonight on ESPN 2. They were all pretty much saying Gholston is overrated as well... but I know, what do they know.

Anyway, they had us taking Ryan at 5. And at 17 they gave us Otah with Albert still on the board. Kiper thought they were nuts for not giving us Albert who was still available at that pick.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:14 PM
Remember Virginia plays 3-4 and Long is much more of the man there where Gholston is playing with other 1st round talent, don't overrate college stats.

And LOng is DE in the 3-4 which makes his stats much more impressive, he wasn't playing linebacker.

ceebz
04-24-2008, 08:14 PM
he'll get his chance to show us what he's got in the draft challenge.

meh, whatever. I'm not here to get into some internet pissing match. I just find it irritating that whenever someone doesn't share the same exact opinion as Mecca, immediately they're some football n00b, who's never seen a college game before.

I never said Gholston was nothing more than a workout warrior. He's just shown that he will disappear in games, for whatever reason. Plain and simple, I think Ellis is the better fit for KC. I see Gholston as more of a stand up OLB in a 3-4.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:14 PM
Who were the guys?

If it was Schelereth and Wiley.....that's all I need to know. That ESPN cast grates on me, they could really just do soundbites and it'd be the same thing.

Schelerth:You have to go Oline here.
Wiley:It's all about the line.
Hodge;Factor back!
Jaws; THIS IS WHAT YOU DO TO WIN IN THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.
Tom Jackson: That's right Boom.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:16 PM
I thought payers stats should be better with a good surounding cast.

That's not true really, like people question Rivers stats, they're lower because of the rest of his team.

When you play with other good players you respect their ability to make plays and play your spot and assignment. When you are by far the best and only plaer on your team you go running all over the field to make plays...

ceebz
04-24-2008, 08:16 PM
I wish he'd have a better comeback than that, really argue your point don't go "oh yea what the hell do you know?" Because I can do that same shit back to you....it was a simple question how many games of his have you watched?


ROFL You can't be for real. I've watched several of Gholston's games. Am I qualified enough to have an opinion now? :rolleyes:

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:17 PM
It's also safe to mention the ACC stunk up the NCAA this year.
Youngstown St. (Sep. 1) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Akron (Sep. 8) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
at Washington (Sep. 15) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Northwestern (Sep. 22) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
at Minnesota (Sep. 29) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
at Purdue (Oct. 6) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Kent (Oct. 13) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Michigan State (Oct. 20) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
at Penn State (Oct. 27) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Wisconsin (Nov. 3) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Illinois (Nov. 10) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
at Michigan (Nov. 17) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
LSU (Jan. 7)

Who on this list besides Mich, and LSU do you consider to be tough competition.

Sure-Oz
04-24-2008, 08:17 PM
Who were the guys?

If it was Schelereth and Wiley.....that's all I need to know. That ESPN cast grates on me, they could really just do soundbites and it'd be the same thing.

Schelerth:You have to go Oline here.
Wiley:It's all about the line.
Hodge;Factor back!
Jaws; THIS IS WHAT YOU DO TO WIN IN THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.
Tom Jackson: That's right Boom.

It was those two and that former Titans GM, he was the one that actually made both of our picks...gholston was picked ahead as well as Long at #2...

I really don't want Ryan or a QB that high this year, it should be defense then OL with the 2nd 1st rounder imo

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:17 PM
You guys do know that Gholston is every bit as big as Allen righ? He's bigger than Freeney, I don't get this whole, "he's to small he's a LB" thing.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:17 PM
That's not true really, like people question Rivers stats, they're lower because of the rest of his team.

When you play with other good players you respect their ability to make plays and play your spot and assignment. When you are by far the best and only plaer on your team you go running all over the field to make plays...

I would think that would make the other team AVOID you. wouldn't you?

Coogs
04-24-2008, 08:18 PM
Who were the guys?

If it was Schelereth and Wiley.....that's all I need to know.

It was those two and the former GM of the Titans. Kiper and McShay were there to throw in their cirtique for each pick.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:19 PM
It was those two and that former Titans GM, he was the one that actually made both of our picks...gholston was picked ahead as well as Long at #2...

I really don't want Ryan or a QB that high this year, it should be defense then OL with the 2nd 1st rounder imo

I saw one of those earlier where Reese who was a Gm gave us Ryan and then Schelereth and Wiley went on a tangent about how a QB has no immediate impact and we should take a OT even if it means reaching.

I want to know why a team this bad that obviously isn't going to contend this year should be concerned about immediate impact.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:19 PM
Hell they would game plan for you. nice try .

Chiefs Pantalones
04-24-2008, 08:19 PM
We need a speed rusher. If we draft Chris Long that will be like having two Tamba Hali's. Gholston is gonna be a great one.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:20 PM
I would think that would make the other team AVOID you. wouldn't you?

Chris Long was a very productive player I'm not going to say he wasn't if you want to say he was more productive than Gholston that's fine because he was, but I'm not sure how he translates to this level. Not saying he will suck I'm not not sure he translates as a great player.

ceebz
04-24-2008, 08:20 PM
I really don't want Ryan or a QB that high this year,

I agree. Lets start to put some pieces in place so that when we do bring a QB in, he'll have a chance at succeeding.

kcfan82
04-24-2008, 08:23 PM
Youngstown St. (Sep. 1) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Akron (Sep. 8) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
at Washington (Sep. 15) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Northwestern (Sep. 22) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
at Minnesota (Sep. 29) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
at Purdue (Oct. 6) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Kent (Oct. 13) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Michigan State (Oct. 20) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
at Penn State (Oct. 27) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Wisconsin (Nov. 3) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
Illinois (Nov. 10) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
at Michigan (Nov. 17) 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
LSU (Jan. 7)

Who on this list besides Mich, and LSU do you consider to be tough competition.

Wasn't Illinois a BCS team?

Coogs
04-24-2008, 08:23 PM
I agree. Lets start to put some pieces in place so that when we do bring a QB in, he'll have a chance at succeeding.

Reese made a comment on that with regard to taking the QB early vs filling out the team and then adding the QB. Said if your whole team is in place besides the QB, then it may be another 3 years before your team is ready to compete for a title why you are waiting for the QB to grow into the job. Better to take the QB early and let him grow with the team. Makes sense to me.

J Diddy
04-24-2008, 08:24 PM
meh, whatever. I'm not here to get into some internet pissing match. I just find it irritating that whenever someone doesn't share the same exact opinion as Mecca, immediately they're some football n00b, who's never seen a college game before.

I never said Gholston was nothing more than a workout warrior. He's just shown that he will disappear in games, for whatever reason. Plain and simple, I think Ellis is the better fit for KC. I see Gholston as more of a stand up OLB in a 3-4.

well if he disappears in games he'd be a perfect replacement for allen

ceebz
04-24-2008, 08:28 PM
Reese made a comment on that with regard to taking the QB early vs filling out the team and then adding the QB. Said if your whole team is in place besides the QB, then it may be another 3 years before your team is ready to compete for a title why you are waiting for the QB to grow into the job. Better to take the QB early and let him grow with the team. Makes sense to me.

Except that this team isn't anywhere near 'being filled out.' It'll be three years before this team is ready to contend for a playoff spot. I don't think there's any risk in waiting until next year to grab a QB, unless, you're convinced Ryan is the guy.

Deberg_1990
04-24-2008, 08:29 PM
I wonder if fans back in 1989 argued this much for the Chiefs to take Mandarich, Deon Sanders, Broderick Thomas or DT? ROFL

Chiefs Pantalones
04-24-2008, 08:29 PM
Reese made a comment on that with regard to taking the QB early vs filling out the team and then adding the QB. Said if your whole team is in place besides the QB, then it may be another 3 years before your team is ready to compete for a title why you are waiting for the QB to grow into the job. Better to take the QB early and let him grow with the team. Makes sense to me.

I agree with this. If Long, Dorsey, Gholston and Ryan were all there at #5 I'd draft Ryan. I think Ryan will be gone or traded up to be taken though.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:30 PM
I wonder if fans back in 1989 argued this much for the Chiefs to take Mandarich, Deon Sanders, Broderick Thomas or DT? ROFL

If the team was like it is now this board would clammer for Mandarich.

Gravedigger
04-24-2008, 08:30 PM
I'm up for Chris Long simply because of his determination. Ghoulston is a hoss but he seems to be slower getting around the corner. Either one will be a great pick I just think Chris Long with be more like a Jared Allen with a crazy redneck motor.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:31 PM
I'm up for Chris Long simply because of his determination. Ghoulston is a hoss but he seems to be slower getting around the corner. Either one will be a great pick I just think Chris Long with be more like a Jared Allen with a crazy redneck motor.

Did you just say you like him more because he's white?

ceebz
04-24-2008, 08:31 PM
You guys do know that Gholston is every bit as big as Allen righ? He's bigger than Freeney, I don't get this whole, "he's to small he's a LB" thing.

Who said he wasn't big enough? I just don't remember Gholston having much success when lined up over a tackle unless he was able to run around them.

But, seeing as how you've probably watched every OSU game Gholston's ever played in, along with his High School highlight reel, you probably have a more informed opinion. :D

UncleChief83
04-24-2008, 08:32 PM
Reese made a comment on that with regard to taking the QB early vs filling out the team and then adding the QB. Said if your whole team is in place besides the QB, then it may be another 3 years before your team is ready to compete for a title why you are waiting for the QB to grow into the job. Better to take the QB early and let him grow with the team. Makes sense to me.

couldnt agree with you more. if we get a chance to draft a future franchise QB, then do it. You cant let an opportunity like that get away. Or we might build this team's O line up and trade for a veteran QB like we did early 2000s. that got us two good years and a QB with a concussion problem. Another possibility is we keep drafting 3rd rounders like Croyle. As a KC fan, we've haven't had a franchise QB for quite a while. I dont know if many of you are seeing this.

kcfan82
04-24-2008, 08:34 PM
I wonder if fans back in 1989 argued this much for the Chiefs to take Mandarich, Deon Sanders, Broderick Thomas or DT? ROFL

I was pissed that KC took Derrick Thomas over Broderick Thomas......

If I were GM I would have really ****ed that one up for KC, being an NU homer and all.

ceebz
04-24-2008, 08:35 PM
If the team was like it is now this board would clammer for Mandarich.
lmao.

Hey Mecca, what are your feelings on Booty as an NFL quarterback? Am I nuts for thinking the kid has the tools to be a good professional QB?

I ask because I haven't seen too much of him, but, I have liked what I have seen.

BigVE
04-24-2008, 08:35 PM
couldnt agree with you more. if we get a chance to draft a future franchise QB, then do it. You cant let an opportunity like that get away. Or we might build this team's O line up and trade for a veteran QB like we did early 2000s. that got us two good years and a QB with a concussion problem. Another possibility is we keep drafting 3rd rounders like Croyle. As a KC fan, we've haven't had a franchise QB for quite a while. I dont know if many of you are seeing this.

Who says a "franchise QB" has to be taken in round 1? Brohm and Flacco could end up being THE stud QB's of the draft and most likely will NOT be picked up in round one.

dirk digler
04-24-2008, 08:36 PM
I just finished listening to Petro's Red Zone show from yesterday and he had media people from the 3 teams ahead of the Chiefs to do a mock draft. Before I reveal the picks each one of them said that if their respective team was picking first they all would have selected Jake Long. So it appears the consensus #1 player in this years draft is Jake Long. It would have been nice for the Chiefs to draft the guy but oh well.

BTW there is nothing shocking in these picks:

1. Long (obviously)
2. Rams: Chris Long
3. Falcons: Dorsey
4. Raiders: McFadden

The Raiders guy said though he could see Al picking Sedrick Ellis

Deberg_1990
04-24-2008, 08:36 PM
I was pissed that KC took Derrick Thomas over Broderick Thomas......

If I were GM I would have really ****ed that one up for KC, being an NU homer and all.


hahaha....funny you mention that, because i do remember that being the debate at the time. WHich Thomas will be better?? LOL

Coogs
04-24-2008, 08:37 PM
Except that this team isn't anywhere near 'being filled out.' It'll be three years before this team is ready to contend for a playoff spot. I don't think there's any risk in waiting until next year to grab a QB, unless, you're convinced Ryan is the guy.

That is what they have to weigh out up at Arrowhead. In all reality, we are going to be pretty bad this next season barring a damn miracle. And there are some pretty good candidates early in the draft next season for us to chose from at the top of the draft. Oher, Selvie, Laurinites (sp) to name three that could all be a great pick for our team. Hopefully if we stick with Croyle, we have a winner because it would be a shame to have had a shot at the QB this year, and have to adress that position next year and miss out on the likes of one of those three.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:38 PM
I'm up for Chris Long simply because of his determination. Ghoulston is a hoss but he seems to be slower getting around the corner. Either one will be a great pick I just think Chris Long with be more like a Jared Allen with a crazy redneck motor.

I think Long id the better DE, but slower around the corner? I have no idea what would make you think that. Gholston is a flash, but i9 think that's all he's got is that.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 08:39 PM
lmao.

Hey Mecca, what are your feelings on Booty as an NFL quarterback? Am I nuts for thinking the kid has the tools to be a good professional QB?

I ask because I haven't seen too much of him, but, I have liked what I have seen.

He's a backup, he has the tools but it just won't happen. He has a good arm he's technically sound but he just makes bad throws or bad decisions to often.

My Mandarich comment was a joking poke at OT homers.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:40 PM
Who says a "franchise QB" has to be taken in round 1? Brohm and Flacco could end up being THE stud QB's of the draft and most likely will NOT be picked up in round one.

My money is on Brohm. The guy changed systems, and did very well.

kcfan82
04-24-2008, 08:40 PM
I think Long id the better DE, but slower around the corner? I have no idea what would make you think that. Gholston is a flash, but i9 think that's all he's got is that.

Well when you couple that with a 600 lb bench and a 35 inch vertical...

Long is more agile according to measurements, Gholston is stronger and has more straight line speed.

Deberg_1990
04-24-2008, 08:41 PM
I just think Chris Long with be more like a Jared Allen with a crazy redneck motor.

Why do all good white players have to be crazy rednecks?? :)

Chiefs Pantalones
04-24-2008, 08:41 PM
I just finished listening to Petro's Red Zone show from yesterday and he had media people from the 3 teams ahead of the Chiefs to do a mock draft. Before I reveal the picks each one of them said that if their respective team was picking first they all would have selected Jake Long. So it appears the consensus #1 player in this years draft is Jake Long. It would have been nice for the Chiefs to draft the guy but oh well.

BTW there is nothing shocking in these picks:

1. Long (obviously)
2. Rams: Chris Long
3. Falcons: Dorsey
4. Raiders: McFadden

The Raiders guy said though he could see Al picking Sedrick Ellis

If all that holds true we should draft Ryan. I'm on the Ryan or Gholston bandwagon. I think both have franchise changing talent for the picks that would be left at the 5 spot anyway.

kcfan82
04-24-2008, 08:41 PM
hahaha....funny you mention that, because i do remember that being the debate at the time. WHich Thomas will be better?? LOL


It was a huge deal, and because back then CFB wasn't on ESPN gameplan alot of the midwest saw Nebraska every week.

But my god that is one that Carl got right.... Brodrick went to Tampa and flamed out I believe.

Deberg_1990
04-24-2008, 08:42 PM
My money is on Brohm. The guy changed systems, and did very well.


Well, ive said all along....


If the Chiefs pass on Ryan, i definately think they will draft a QB somewhere in the 2-4th round range. They know full well they cant rely on Croyle 100% and he needs competition.

UncleChief83
04-24-2008, 08:43 PM
Who says a "franchise QB" has to be taken in round 1? Brohm and Flacco could end up being THE stud QB's of the draft and most likely will NOT be picked up in round one.

like a third rounder like croyle? brohm is also a very good QB with a lot of potential, I'm just sold that Ryan is better. Flacco is ok. I dont know why we put so much faith in Croyle. I dont believe next years class will have a QB as good as Ryan or Brohm. Or we can keep trading for QBs like Bono, Gannon, Grbac, and Green. Have two good years here and there, thats fine with me (sarcasm)!

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:43 PM
Well when you couple that with a 600 lb bench and a 35 inch vertical...

Long is more agile according to measurements, Gholston is stronger and has more straight line speed.

Check ou the highlight reel. Gholsto blasts off the ball. I rteally like that aspect of his game, but think he's one dimensional.

Please don't give me the DT line.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:44 PM
Well, ive said all along....


If the Chiefs pass on Ryan, i definately think they will draft a QB somewhere in the 2-4th round range. They know full well they cant rely on Croyle 100% and he needs competition.

Yep. At this point, and with these picks, you can take a chance on a guy like Brohm.

dirk digler
04-24-2008, 08:44 PM
If all that holds true we should draft Ryan. I'm on the Ryan or Gholston bandwagon. I think both have franchise changing talent for the picks that would be left at the 5 spot anyway.

I agree. I would like Ryan, Gholston or Ellis. It would be nice if Chris Long fell to us but I doubt we get that lucky.

Now watch Herm and Carl ****ing draft Clady or Alberts and I will go apeshit. The draft is really deep for the O-Line so they better not reach with their first pick

catfish307
04-24-2008, 08:44 PM
Let Ryan go and get a QB later in the draft. There are a lot more 1st round dud QB's and I think that we can find one later. There are no real stud QB's even in this draft as far as I can see. First priority is to shore up the O line because not even Farve, Elway or Brady could be worth a sh*t with the line we have. Add some defense then find a QB.

UncleChief83
04-24-2008, 08:45 PM
Well, ive said all along....


If the Chiefs pass on Ryan, i definately think they will draft a QB somewhere in the 2-4th round range. They know full well they cant rely on Croyle 100% and he needs competition.

hopefully we can nab ryan, but im all for brohm too. Croyle was not as half as good as these two guys in college, funny how a lot of fans want to give Brodie a chance.

UncleChief83
04-24-2008, 08:48 PM
Let Ryan go and get a QB later in the draft. There are a lot more 1st round dud QB's and I think that we can find one later. There are no real stud QB's even in this draft as far as I can see. First priority is to shore up the O line because not even Farve, Elway or Brady could be worth a sh*t with the line we have. Add some defense then find a QB.

Ryan looks like a stud and Brohm has some upside. lets not forget either, QBs take time to build, O lines can come in and start right away. I'm just a little torn on Ryan or getting a good D line with our number 5 pick

kcfan82
04-24-2008, 08:50 PM
Check ou the highlight reel. Gholsto blasts off the ball. I rteally like that aspect of his game, but think he's one dimensional.

Please don't give me the DT line.

I won't be upset if we take Long if he is available, but it's obvious that we are probably going to end up with a great DE/DT choice if we decide to use the first pick.

The thing I like about Gholston is his strength and speed, and he has alot of upside IMO.

What I don't want to do is reach for an Olineman or take a QB like Ryan when you have guys like Brohm sitting around in a later round.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 08:54 PM
hopefully we can nab ryan, but im all for brohm too. Croyle was not as half as good as these two guys in college, funny how a lot of fans want to give Brodie a chance.

The difference is we don't hase to pass on an elite player to find out if Brohm is worth it. Ryan on the other hand.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-24-2008, 08:54 PM
I agree. I would like Ryan, Gholston or Ellis. It would be nice if Chris Long fell to us but I doubt we get that lucky.

Now watch Herm and Carl ****ing draft Clady or Alberts and I will go apeshit. The draft is really deep for the O-Line so they better not reach with their first pick

I'm not that big on Chris Long. Like I mentioned before, I think drafting him would be like drafting another Hali. We need a speed rusher on the right side to replace Allen. Gholston is a game changer. I could be wrong, but the guy will be a stud.

If Ryan's there though I'd draft him.

And I'll be pissed too if we draft an olineman at the 5 spot. I'll be pissed if we trade down too. The only way I'd try to get more picks is to trade Wesley or another player, but not any of our own. We aren't very good at drafting, lets not push our luck risk trading down haha.

Coogs
04-24-2008, 08:55 PM
What I don't want to do is reach for an Olineman or take a QB like Ryan when you have guys like Brohm sitting around in a later round.

I posted this in the other thread about QB's started by Mecca. Imagine this is last season, and Ryan is the QB for LSU. His WR's are Bowe, the guy that went in the first round to the Chargers, and Doucett. He has great RB's behind him. And his O-line is not to shabby either.

My guess is the Dolphins would have already signed him and we would be in the Jake Long derby.

Fish
04-24-2008, 08:57 PM
hopefully we can nab ryan, but im all for brohm too. Croyle was not as half as good as these two guys in college, funny how a lot of fans want to give Brodie a chance.

Funny how a lot of fans want to give up on Brodie without giving him a fair chance.

dirk digler
04-24-2008, 08:58 PM
I'm not that big on Chris Long. Like I mentioned before, I think drafting him would be like drafting another Hali. We need a speed rusher on the right side to replace Allen. Gholston is a game changer. I could be wrong, but the guy will be a stud.

If Ryan's there though I'd draft him.

And I'll be pissed too if we draft an olineman at the 5 spot. I'll be pissed if we trade down too. The only way I'd try to get more picks is to trade Wesley or another player, but not any of our own. We aren't very good at drafting, lets not push our luck risk trading down haha.

We can agree to disagree on Long but I agree with the rest of your post.

The funny thing is all I hear from Carl, Herm and all the Chief mouthpieces is how important this draft is and how this is going to change the franchise yet we still have Carl and Herm making the ****ing picks. They could be the only team drafting and still **** it up.

kcfan82
04-24-2008, 08:59 PM
I posted this in the other thread about QB's started by Mecca. Imagine this is last season, and Ryan is the QB for LSU. His WR's are Bowe, the guy that went in the first round to the Chargers, and Doucett. He has great RB's behind him. And his O-line is not to shabby either.

My guess is the Dolphins would have already signed him and we would be in the Jake Long derby.

You're probably right.... However Ryan did have a great Oline this year by CFB standards. I'm not sure who his WR's were but I remember hearing he's thrown an obscene amount of picks.

Coogs
04-24-2008, 09:02 PM
You're probably right.... However Ryan did have a great Oline this year by CFB standards. I'm not sure who his WR's were but I remember hearing he's thrown an obscene amount of picks.

He had a freshman at RT this season that looked like a screed door against VT in the first game anyway. And the RG didn't look a whole lot better.

kcfan82
04-24-2008, 09:04 PM
He had a freshman at RT this season that looked like a screed door against VT in the first game anyway. And the RG didn't look a whole lot better.

Earlier this season they were talking about how BC had two sure fire NFL Olineman on that team?

I can't say I follow BC much, but I have a couple of friends who are alums.

Coogs
04-24-2008, 09:06 PM
Earlier this season they were talking about how BC had two sure fire NFL Olineman on that team?

I can't say I follow BC much, but I have a couple of friends who are alums.

Cherilus is going to make it. And the freshman may eventually make it since he is good enough to start as a freshman, but Ellis took him to school during the VT game.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:07 PM
Must just me but I don't think Chris Long is all that great.

No, it's not just you. His absolute upside is Jared Allen. Gholston's is Derrick Thomas/Bruce Smith, as we agreed.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 09:08 PM
I'm not that big on Chris Long. Like I mentioned before, I think drafting him would be like drafting another Hali. We need a speed rusher on the right side to replace Allen. Gholston is a game changer. I could be wrong, but the guy will be a stud.

If Ryan's there though I'd draft him.

And I'll be pissed too if we draft an olineman at the 5 spot. I'll be pissed if we trade down too. The only way I'd try to get more picks is to trade Wesley or another player, but not any of our own. We aren't very good at drafting, lets not push our luck risk trading down haha.

I'm sure parcells took all that into consideration when he came to the conclusion that he is not worthy.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:09 PM
Are these stats correct? Gholston tackles 37? 37?! Long 79!

for loss 14 19

sacks 15.5 14.5

and gholston went sackless in 5 games racking up multi sack games against inferior comprtition. I like the guy just saying. He seems inconsistent, and not so good vs the run.

Ignore my layout I;m drunk.

Are you a motherf*cking retard?? Only here could someone say Wisconsin and Michigan are inferior competition to Youngstown f*cking State, and this is the second goddamned time I've heard some proto-mongoloid make this f*cking knuckledgragging argument...F*CK!!

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:12 PM
I'm sure parcells took all that into consideration when he came to the conclusion that he is not worthy.

Bill Parcells 2006 Draft:

Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Jason Hatcher
Skyler Green
Pat Watkins
Montavius Stanley
Pat McQuistan
EJ Whitley

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 09:12 PM
No, it's not just you. His absolute upside is Jared Allen. Gholston's is Derrick Thomas/Bruce Smith, as we agreed.

The thing is though, that it's a pretty sure thing that what you see is what you get with long. With gholston it's a gamble on what he might be.

BTW Bruce Smith, and DT are quite different players which kinda bolsters my theory of not knowing exactly what you're getting.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 09:14 PM
Bill Parcells 2006 Draft:

Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Jason Hatcher
Skyler Green
Pat Watkins
Montavius Stanley
Pat McQuistan
EJ Whitley

Yea, you're right. Parcells knows Jack about building a team.

Good lord.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:16 PM
Did you just say you like him more because he's white?

Are you surprised?

Marco Polo
04-24-2008, 09:17 PM
Here is the latest on the Rams draft selection:

Rams & Dorsey * Updated (http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bernies-extra-points/bernies-extra-points/2008/04/rams-pick-looks-like-dorsey/)

By Bernie Miklasz (bjmiklasz@post-dispatch.com)
04/24/2008 1:59 pm


Good evening from Rams Park…
Earlier in the day I wrote that Rams fans should get used to the idea of LSU defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey being the team’s No. 1 choice (and second overall) in Saturday’s NFL Draft.
I rated the chance of that happening at about 80 percent, but also offered reasons why it could turn in an opposite direction.
And I promised to update if anything changed, which is what I am doing now.
Dorsey is the No. 1 player on their board, so if the Rams follow their own ratings, Dorsey is the guy.
But I am told that there is a strong pocket of support at Rams Park for Virginia defensive end Chris Long… so for the Rams fans who want Long, keep the faith, because you still have a chance.
Among those who matter at Rams Park, Dorsey has more in his corner, so I guess it just comes down to who wins the civil internal debate between now and Saturday.
I still believe Dorsey is the favorite, but someone in authority at Rams Park clearly has been aggressively leaking Long’s name to members of the national media, as the intrigue continues to build.
I’ve made the case for Dorsey, but as I wrote in Thursday’s column, I wouldn’t knock the selection of Chris Long or Ohio State defensive end Vernon Gholston. All have impressive physical attributes and are impressive people.
Still I find this to be a curious situation, considering that the Rams have ranked Dorsey No. 1.
Perhaps it comes down to the perception that the Rams need a DE more than a DT.
Still, a team stacking a board in a certain way after months of research and meetings, then tossing out their own ranking seems a little peculiar, but the Rams continue to be one of the most eccentric organizations in professional sports.
Who knows? When I asked two questions in Thursday’s news conference to try and determine who would have the final say in the draft room in the event that there’s a split in the opinions, I couldn’t get a straight answer from VP of Personnel Billy Devaney.
As I wrote earlier, three things could scotch the Dorsey-STL connection:
1. If the Rams had any last-minute second thoughts about Dorsey’s medical issues (namely a stress fracture of his lower leg). But on Thursday, Devaney reiterated the team’s confidence in Dorsey’s viability and reminded reporters that the team had done of thorough job of investigating Dorsey’s injury history. “We exhausted eveything,” Devaney said. “And we signed off on everything about Glenn Dorsey.” Coach Scott Linehan added that the Rams wouldn’t have a problem in playing last year’s No. 1 pick, Adam Carriker, at defensive end if they had to. Linehan pointed out that Carriker was an All-American DE at Nebraska. Carriker took most of his Rams’ rookie snaps at DT, but did see time at DE down the stretch.
2. If Rams president John Shaw insisted that the team draft another player, namely Arkansas RB Darren McFadden. Shaw likes McFadden, but isn’t going to push for Devaney, the scouts and the coaches to go with McFadden over Dorsey.
3. Of course, the Rams could be blown away by a late offer for the No. 2 overall choice… but Devaney and coach Scott Linehan each say the offer would have to be something extraordinary to get them to move off No. 2. Devaney said he’d especially be apprehensive about sliding down as far as No. 10, where New Orleans picks. The Saints have expressed interest in the Rams’ pick. But so far, nothing close has emerged that would give the Rams second thoughts about keeping the pick and opting for Dorsey.
The dream scenario of Atlanta giving the Rams a second-round pick to move up a spot (with the Rams sliding down to No. 3 overall) seems to be a longshot. But if Atlanta really wants Dorsey (and there are conflicting reports on that), then it makes sense for the Rams to float the notion that Dorsey is their guy, hoping to lure the Falcons into a serious trade discussion.
And now we can add a fourth reason to the list of why the Rams may draft Long instead of Dorsey: it could happen if those who want Long at Rams Park ultimately prevail in the debate. And no matter what the decision is, the Rams will present a united front after the decision is made.
If anything else changes, I’ll pass it along…
–B

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:17 PM
Yea, you're right. Parcells knows Jack about building a team.

Good lord.

If you think that Bill Parcells is anything other than a mediocre evaluator of talent, you need to have your head checked, because everyone in the media is doing your thinking for you.

Look at that list again and tell me who contributes to their team (here's a hint: they got one blocking tight end out of an entire draft).

UncleChief83
04-24-2008, 09:18 PM
Funny how a lot of fans want to give up on Brodie without giving him a fair chance.

I'm not arguing he hasnt had a fair chance, but the guy is not a starting QB in this league. He barely won at Alabama if you can remember. He throws off his back foot all the time. He doesnt have good vision or may just have bad judgement. You honestly can't believe that this is our future QB right?

Marco Polo
04-24-2008, 09:19 PM
And another:

CBS Sportslines Pete Prisco is reporting that the Saints are willing to deal their starting LT, Jammal Brown, and their 10th overall pick to move up to 2nd overall. http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10797100/rss

Mecca
04-24-2008, 09:21 PM
The Saints tell you that LT isn't that important...

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:21 PM
The thing is though, that it's a pretty sure thing that what you see is what you get with long. With gholston it's a gamble on what he might be.

BTW Bruce Smith, and DT are quite different players which kinda bolsters my theory of not knowing exactly what you're getting.

The point is that he can be a dynamic game changer like either one. Bruce Smith was about 20lbs heavier than Gholston, but had the same freakish strength and a litany of pass rushing moves.

The point of drafting with the #5 pick isn't to go the safe route, although thanks for proving my point for me. You guys have the same draft approach as you do in the regular season: no risk, no balls, 8-8. God forbid we take a chance on a true rebuild or a dynamic game-changing player.

I'd rather not draft the NFL equivalent of Tyler Hansbrough.

Basileus777
04-24-2008, 09:21 PM
And another:

CBS Sportslines Pete Prisco is reporting that the Saints are willing to deal their starting LT, Jammal Brown, and their 10th overall pick to move up to 2nd overall. http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10797100/rss

That can't be right. No one is stupid enough to give up a pro-bowl LT and the 10th pick for anyone in this draft. Maybe Brown and a 2nd or 3rd, anything more is just idiocy. Brown is better than any OT in this draft.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 09:22 PM
The point is that he can be a dynamic game changer like either one. Bruce Smith was about 20lbs heavier than Gholston, but had the same freakish strength and a litany of pass rushing moves.

The point of drafting with the #5 pick isn't to go the safe route, although thanks for proving my point for me. You guys have the same draft approach as you do in the regular season: no risk, no balls, 8-8. God forbid we take a chance on a true rebuild or a dynamic game-changing player.

I'd rather not draft the NFL equivalent of Tyler Hansbrough.

He's gonna be Justin Smith......

Rausch
04-24-2008, 09:25 PM
He's gonna be Justin Smith......

Grossly overpaid?...

Mecca
04-24-2008, 09:25 PM
Grossly overpaid?...

Possibly, lets remember that guy was the 2nd overall pick.

Silock
04-24-2008, 09:26 PM
We need to select Dorsey or Ellis. We need a strong DT that can collapse the pocket because it's obvious we can't find one in FA. We had Hali and a great DE in JA and got NO pressure. We need help on the interior of the Dline first.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:26 PM
He's gonna be Justin Smith......

And all of these devout cowards will be perfectly happy with him getting 8 sacks each year while Gholston is getting twice that number.

It fits in perfectly with the 8-8 mentality.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 09:27 PM
And all of these devout cowards will be perfectly happy with him getting 8 sacks each year while Gholston is getting twice that number.

It fits in perfectly with the 8-8 mentality.

Well as long as he is a good country boy.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 09:27 PM
If you think that Bill Parcells is anything other than a mediocre evaluator of talent, you need to have your head checked, because everyone in the media is doing your thinking for you.

Look at that list again and tell me who contributes to their team (here's a hint: they got one blocking tight end out of an entire draft).
1 24 (24) Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL)
4 28 (127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5* 34 (171) Clint Oldenburg OL Colorado State University
6 6 (180) Justin Rogers DE Southern Methodist University
6 28 (202) Mike Richardson CB Notre Dame
6* 34 (208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6* 35 (209) Corey Hilliard T Oklahoma State
7 1 (211) Oscar Lua ILB USC
7* 37 (247) Mike Elgin OL University of Iowa
* - Compensatory pick

Here's the Pats 2007 draft. You think that because someone has one bad draft that he doesn't know what he's doing.

That's about as dumb as an internet poster implying that he 's a better evaluator of talent than Bill parcells.

I can't believe how absolutely convinced you guys are. It's actually pretty comedic.

UncleChief83
04-24-2008, 09:33 PM
You're probably right.... However Ryan did have a great Oline this year by CFB standards. I'm not sure who his WR's were but I remember hearing he's thrown an obscene amount of picks.

his receiving corp was not ok, not great, but barely good.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 09:33 PM
The point is that he can be a dynamic game changer like either one. Bruce Smith was about 20lbs heavier than Gholston, but had the same freakish strength and a litany of pass rushing moves.

The point of drafting with the #5 pick isn't to go the safe route, although thanks for proving my point for me. You guys have the same draft approach as you do in the regular season: no risk, no balls, 8-8. God forbid we take a chance on a true rebuild or a dynamic game-changing player.

I'd rather not draft the NFL equivalent of Tyler Hansbrough.

It's also funny how everyone has an opinion, but if it doesn't fall in line with what you think, then it is followed by condecension.
Thank you for your OPINION Mecca Jr, but it's no more valid than anyone elses.

Basileus777
04-24-2008, 09:33 PM
I think the reason so many teams are interested in Long is that they are afraid to draft a bust because of how much top picks are being paid today. Look at this quote by Phil Savage about Chris Long:

"He may not reach the heights of some of these other people. But at that part of the draft I would always try to hit the double off the wall and not swing for the fence because the money is so high."

The ridiculous money these rookies are getting is making GMs more conservative with high picks. I wanted Long too, but now I'm leaning towards Gholston. When you have a top 5 pick you need to go for the most talented player you can. Long doesn't have that great first step you need to be a dominant pass rusher. He's going to be a solid to very good player, but not someone LTs are going to fear.

Basileus777
04-24-2008, 09:35 PM
his receiving corp was not ok, not great, but barely good.

He also threw over 600 passes, making those 19 INTs a little more understandable.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 09:38 PM
And all of these devout cowards will be perfectly happy with him getting 8 sacks each year while Gholston is getting twice that number.

It fits in perfectly with the 8-8 mentality.

*Be sure to make your all world picks in the draft challenge, so we can look back, and see how much smarter you are than Bill Parcells.

BTW name calling is for children, and professional wrestlers. Grow up a little, and prove your merrit in the challenge.

UncleChief83
04-24-2008, 09:38 PM
He also threw over 600 passes, making those 19 INTs a little more understandable.

yeah thats true. oh and i meant to say his receivers were OK, i said it kind of funny.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:40 PM
1 24 (24) Brandon Meriweather S Miami (FL)
4 28 (127) Kareem Brown DT Miami (FL)
5* 34 (171) Clint Oldenburg OL Colorado State University
6 6 (180) Justin Rogers DE Southern Methodist University
6 28 (202) Mike Richardson CB Notre Dame
6* 34 (208) Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6* 35 (209) Corey Hilliard T Oklahoma State
7 1 (211) Oscar Lua ILB USC
7* 37 (247) Mike Elgin OL University of Iowa
* - Compensatory pick

Here's the Pats 2007 draft. You think that because someone has one bad draft that he doesn't know what he's doing.

That's about as dumb as an internet poster implying that he 's a better evaluator of talent than Bill parcells.

I can't believe how absolutely convinced you guys are. It's actually pretty comedic.

So now we are evaluating classes after one season??

I'd also like to know why passing up Orlando Pace for James Farrior and Stephen Jackson for Julius Jones makes him a better than mediocre evaluator of talent.

Lets look at his '04 draft:

Julius Jones
Jacob Rodgers
Stephen Peterman
Bruce Thornton
Sean Ryan
Nathan Jones
Patrick Crayton


That's pretty f*cking terrible

His '03 draft was ok in that he got a pro bowler with the 5th pick (Newman) and Witten in the third round, but outside of that, no one is even a contributor on their team right now.

His '05 Draft was the one where he actually found some good players.

Apparently a .250 batting average now qualifies as a good evaluator of talent. Nice.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 09:40 PM
I think the reason so many teams are interested in Long is that they are afraid to draft a bust because of how much top picks are being paid today. Look at this quote by Phil Savage about Chris Long:

"He may not reach the heights of some of these other people. But at that part of the draft I would always try to hit the double off the wall and not swing for the fence because the money is so high."

The ridiculous money these rookies are getting is making GMs more conservative with high picks. I wanted Long too, but now I'm leaning towards Gholston. When you have a top 5 pick you need to go for the most talented player you can. Long doesn't have that great first step you need to be a dominant pass rusher. He's going to be a solid to very good player, but not someone LTs are going to fear.

I hate the safe mentality it's how you get a mediocre team and not a great one.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:41 PM
*Be sure to make your all world picks in the draft challenge, so we can look back, and see how much smarter you are than Bill Parcells.

BTW name calling is for children, and professional wrestlers. Grow up a little, and prove your merrit in the challenge.

It's already on record. Check the Draft Planet forum.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:42 PM
I hate the safe mentality it's how you get a mediocre team and not a great one.

These fans truly aspire for mediocrity. They truly do.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 09:44 PM
So now we are evaluating classes after one season??

I'd also like to know why passing up Orlando Pace for James Farrior and Stephen Jackson for Julius Jones makes him a better than mediocre evaluator of talent.

Lets look at his '04 draft:

Julius Jones
Jacob Rodgers
Stephen Peterman
Bruce Thornton
Sean Ryan
Nathan Jones
Patrick Crayton


That's pretty f*cking terrible

His '03 draft was ok in that he got a pro bowler with the 5th pick (Newman) and Witten in the third round, but outside of that, no one is even a contributor on their team right now.

His '05 Draft was the one where he actually found some good players.

Apparently a .250 batting average now qualifies as a good evaluator of talent. Nice.
Half the players fromNEs 2007 class arent even on the roster..

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 09:45 PM
These fans truly aspire for mediocrity. They truly do.

A safe pick, and a sure fire player are not one in the same.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 09:47 PM
These fans truly aspire for mediocrity. They truly do.

More "you don't know shit posts". What a surprise.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 09:52 PM
It's already on record. Check the Draft Planet forum.

You have to make them on tha clock in the challenge. You don't even know who will be available.

Anyone can say I want this guy this guy, and this guy.

They might not even be available. You know like mecca, and his Cromartie pick.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:54 PM
Half the players fromNEs 2007 class arent even on the roster..

Are you really surprised when almost all of their picks, save Meriweather (who I personally think won't amount to much) were compensatory selections in late rounds??

As I said though, Parcells has an established record in Dal that you can critique. 1 is a statistical outlier, 4 drafts is a pretty good way to evaluate someone's ability in the modern NFL, and his was largely saved by JJ's checkbook.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 09:57 PM
You have to make them on tha clock in the challenge. You don't even know who will be available.

Anyone can say I want this guy this guy, and this guy.

They might not even be available. You know like mecca, and his Cromartie pick.

Well I tell you what. Why don't you look at where I made some of the picks in that draft, where they were rated then, and where they are now.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 10:03 PM
Well I tell you what. Why don't you look at where I made some of the picks in that draft, where they were rated then, and where they are now.

Dude how many mocks actually turn out like the actual draft?

Zouk
04-24-2008, 10:13 PM
Apparently a .250 batting average now qualifies as a good evaluator of talent. Nice.

Based on your judging criteria, I bet you won't find a single person you think is a good drafter. I could play the game you played with anyone - Polian, AJ Smith, you name it. They have all had bad drafts and bad picks. And I mean Tim Biakabatuka / Rae Carruth / Erik Flowers bad.

If you think the guy who picked DeMarcus Ware, Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Marion Barber in the 4th, Jason Witten in the 3rd, Laveranuse Coles in the 3rd, Jason Fabini in the 4th, Jason Ferguson in the 7th, Troy Brown in the 8th, Curtis Martin in the 3rd, Lawyer Milloy in the 2nd, Tedy Bruschi in the 3rd, and a boatload of championship players with the NYG is a bad evaluator of talent - I think you're way off.

Even in the draft you cited as awful, Crayton, Reeves, and Jones were probably 3 of the 5 best picks in the entire 7th round.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 10:21 PM
Dude how many mocks actually turn out like the actual draft?

My top 31 players:

1. Glenn Dorsey
2. Vernon Gholston
3. Sedrick Ellis
4. Matt Ryan
5. Chris Long
6. Chris Williams
7. Jake Long
8. Keith Rivers
9. Darren McFadden
10. D. Rodgers-Cromartie
11. Leodis McKelvin
12. Rashard Mendenhall
13. Branden Albert
14. Jonathan Stewart
15. Derrick Harvey
16. Jeff Otah
17. Phillip Merling
18. Kenny Phillips
19. James Hardy
20. Jerod Mayo
21. Devin Thomas
22. Mike Jenkins
23. Gosder Cherilus
24. Kentwan Balmer
25. Antoine Cason
26. Quentin Groves
27. Brian Brohm
28. Dan Conner
29. Reggie Smith
30. Felix Jones
31. Curtis Lofton

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 10:27 PM
Based on your judging criteria, I bet you won't find a single person you think is a good drafter. I could play the game you played with anyone - Polian, AJ Smith, you name it. They have all had bad drafts and bad picks. And I mean Tim Biakabatuka / Rae Carruth / Erik Flowers bad.

If you think the guy who picked DeMarcus Ware, Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Marion Barber in the 4th, Jason Witten in the 3rd, Laveranuse Coles in the 3rd, Jason Fabini in the 4th, Jason Ferguson in the 7th, Troy Brown in the 8th, Curtis Martin in the 3rd, Lawyer Milloy in the 2nd, Tedy Bruschi in the 3rd, and a boatload of championship players with the NYG is a bad evaluator of talent - I think you're way off.

Even in the draft you cited as awful, Crayton, Reeves, and Jones were probably 3 of the 5 best picks in the entire 7th round.

#1) I said he was nothing more than mediocre. Good< does not = bad. He's a system guy, no more no less. He believes in a 3-4 system and sticks to his theory.

#2) Parcells didn't draft Coles,

#3) 1 out of 4 drafts dude. As your boy once said "you are what you are".

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 10:29 PM
For what it's worth, if you are looking for the gold standard in player evaluation it is:

1) Bill Polian
2) Ted Thompson
3) AJ Smith

I love how people think Bill Parcells is unassailable because he's Bill Parcells. The guy is a has-been. The media likes him because he's a good quote, but he didn't win a playoff game in 4 years with Dallas (with a huge payroll and an aggressive owner), and hasn't built a championship team since the days of Vanilla Ice.

Extra Point
04-24-2008, 10:29 PM
Mendenhall is in the top 10.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 10:30 PM
My top 31 players:

1. Glenn Dorsey
2. Vernon Gholston
3. Sedrick Ellis
4. Matt Ryan
5. Chris Long
6. Chris Williams
7. Jake Long
8. Keith Rivers
9. Darren McFadden
10. D. Rodgers-Cromartie
11. Leodis McKelvin
12. Rashard Mendenhall
13. Branden Albert
14. Jonathan Stewart
15. Derrick Harvey
16. Jeff Otah
17. Phillip Merling
18. Kenny Phillips
19. James Hardy
20. Jerod Mayo
21. Devin Thomas
22. Mike Jenkins
23. Gosder Cherilus
24. Kentwan Balmer
25. Antoine Cason
26. Quentin Groves
27. Brian Brohm
28. Dan Conner
29. Reggie Smith
30. Felix Jones
31. Curtis Lofton

All I'm saying is prove it on draft day.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=181345
We can all look back, and see how we did.

Zouk
04-24-2008, 10:36 PM
#1) I said he was nothing more than mediocre. Good< does not = bad. He's a system guy, no more no less. He believes in a 3-4 system and sticks to his theory.

#2) Parcells didn't draft Coles,

#3) 1 out of 4 drafts dude. As your boy once said "you are what you are".

1) When asked the most important thing he learned from Bill Belichick, the new GM of the Falcons said he learned the importance of sytem-specific scouting. I think that's what you're talking about here.

2) Parcells was GM, Al Groh was coach for the 2000 Draft with the Jets.

3) I agree he is what he is. A guy who drafts and develops championship
players and wins with them.

But my biggest point was that your curve is way too harsh. You want to bash Parcells for Julius Jones and Jacob Rogers (whose career was ruined by a knee injury, if I remember right) in that 2004 draft - look at the guys drafted after Jones at pick 43:

12 44 Bob Sanders Colts DB Iowa
13 45 Jake Grove Raiders C Virginia Tech
14 46 Justin Smiley 49ers G Alabama
15 47 Tank Johnson Bears DT Washington
16 48 Dontarrious Thomas Vikings LB Auburn
17 49 Keiwan Ratliff Bengals DB Florida
18 50 Devery Henderson Saints WR Louisiana State
19 51 Dwan Edwards Ravens DT Oregon State
20 52 Jacob Rogers Cowboys T USC
21 53 Michael Boulware Seahawks LB Florida State
22 54 Darius Watts Broncos WR Marshall
23 55 Greg Jones Jaguars RB Florida State
24 56 Madieu Williams Bengals DB Maryland
25 57 Antwan Odom Titans DE Alabama
26 58 Shawntae Spencer 49ers DB Pittsburgh
27 59 Sean Jones Browns DB Georgia
28 60 Courtney Watson Saints LB Notre Dame
29 61 Kris Wilson Chiefs TE Pittsburgh
30 62 Keary Colbert Panthers WR USC
31 63 Marquise Hill Patriots DE Louisiana State

You'd probably call 4 out of 5 of those picks bad. Everyone's an idiot.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 10:37 PM
For what it's worth, if you are looking for the gold standard in player evaluation it is:

1) Bill Polian
2) Ted Thompson
3) AJ Smith

I love how people think Bill Parcells is unassailable because he's Bill Parcells. The guy is a has-been. The media likes him because he's a good quote, but he didn't win a playoff game in 4 years with Dallas (with a huge payroll and an aggressive owner), and hasn't built a championship team since the days of Vanilla Ice.
Ted Thompson says. What anyone else thinks is completely irrelevent, as to how you stack your board, and that it should be stacked for your team, and who fits your team.
For example: Rodgers- Cromartie does not fit in with our team, but his workouts, have blasted him up your board.

I think he's awesome, but at the end of the season, he was ranked in the mid second. He's goes to the Combine, and now he's mid first.
I don't rank my players that way, but that's just me, and I don't claim to know more than Bill Parcells.

Mecca
04-24-2008, 10:40 PM
Ted Thompson always says you draft the best players available and not for position or for need either....

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 10:44 PM
Ted Thompson always says you draft the best players available and not for position or for need either....

Correct, and I agree 100%. Fitting your team has nothing to do with your needs. BPA is relative to what style of football you play. Schemes, and what not.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 10:45 PM
Correct, and I agree 100%.

:spock:

Zouk
04-24-2008, 10:49 PM
I agree Ted Thompson has done a very nice job with the Packers. But let's look at his 1st day picks with the Packers:

2005
1. Aaron Rodgers- who knows?
2. Nick Collins - non-notable starting safety
2. Terrence Murphy - already out of football I think

2006
1. AJ Hawk - about what you'd expect from top 5 pick
2. Darryn Colledge - ended last season as a bench player
2. Greg Jennings - fantastic pick
3. Abdul Hodge - backup, inactive for most games last year
3. Jason Spitz - in and out of starting lineup

2007
1. Justin Harrell - inactive for most games last year
2. Brandon Jackson - gave them little
3. James Jones - nice potential, made plays
3. Aaron Rouse - played almost no defensive snaps

My prediction is that if the Packers go 8-8 or worse without Favre, people will stop talking about him as a great drafter.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 10:50 PM
:spock:

I never said anything to the contrary. You just don't comprehend what I said. I never said for need. I said for Scheme. fitting your team.

You know like rating a 3-4 LB really high when you run a 4-3, and no I'm not talking about Gholston. I think he can play DE, or 3-4 LB

CoMoChief
04-24-2008, 10:56 PM
My roomate (hardcore Rams fan) has been saying all this week that the Rams have primarily focused on Dorsey and have since the combine. My roomate says the talk in the Rams organization is that they are selecting Dorsey.

IMO this all has depends on who OAK picks at 4 if they pick there at all.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 10:59 PM
I never said anything to the contrary. You just don't comprehend what I said. I never said for need. I said for Scheme. fitting your team.

You know like rating a 3-4 LB really high when you run a 4-3, and no I'm not talking about Gholston. I think he can play DE, or 3-4 LB

Actually, you don't seem to understand how that statement can be interpreted.
You do realize that Thompson said you take the best player regardless of position or need. He's arguing for being true to your board, but he didn't make any inferences to how player build affects the board.

I actually agree with you here, but you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

I think Dorsey has a higher grade than Gholston, but I chose Gholston with #1 because of the scheme that the Dolphins are insistent upon running.

beach tribe
04-24-2008, 11:09 PM
Actually, you don't seem to understand how that statement can be interpreted.
You do realize that Thompson said you take the best player regardless of position or need. He's arguing for being true to your board, but he didn't make any inferences to how player build affects the board.

I actually agree with you here, but you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

I think Dorsey has a higher grade than Gholston, but I chose Gholston with #1 because of the scheme that the Dolphins are insistent upon running.

I agree with this completely, and said nothing of position, or need, just that boards must be stacked diffrently based on philosophy. Your board looks like a Kiper overall player rating. Not a board board set up for the Chiefs.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-24-2008, 11:21 PM
I agree with this completely, and said nothing of position, or need, just that boards must be stacked diffrently based on philosophy. Your board looks like a Kiper overall player rating. Not a board board set up for the Chiefs.

Which is why I said it was top 32 players and not 32 players for The Kansas City Chiefs.

DaKCMan AP
04-25-2008, 06:31 AM
The Rams picking Dorsey is the absolute best scenario for us. If the Rams select Dorsey I see 3 possible scenarios:

Scenario 1:
Rams - Glenn Dorsey
Falcons - Matt Ryan
Duhs - McFadden/Long/Gholston

Scenario 2:
Rams - Glenn Dorsey
Jets - Vernon Gholston
Duhs - McFadden/Long

Scenario 3:
Rams - Glenn Dorsey
Jets - Matt Ryan
Duhs - McFadden/Long/Gholston

No matter which way you look at it, if the Rams select Glenn Dorsey we are guaranteed one of Chris Long, Vernon Gholston or Matt Ryan. Of course, Ellis will be there too. :)

Rams: take the best player in the draft, Glenn Dorsey.

Wilson8
04-25-2008, 06:38 AM
Saints dangling Brown, hoping to move up for Dorsey
April 24, 2008
By Pete Prisco
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
The New Orleans Saints are trying hard to move up in Saturday's draft for a shot to draft defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey of LSU, and one of the pieces they are shopping in a trade is left tackle Jammal Brown, according to a league source.
Brown, who has 43 starts in his three seasons in the league, is considered one of the better young tackles in the game, although his play dropped off some in 2007.
Brown went to the Pro Bowl in 2006 as a second-year player and was named to the All-Pro team. The decision to include Brown in trade talks shows the seriousness of the Saints and their want for Dorsey.
To get to Dorsey, the Saints would likely have to work out a deal with the St. Louis Rams to get the second pick. The Rams also like Dorsey, so it might be tough to pry that pick away. The Saints own the 10th pick in the first round, and Dorsey would certainly be gone by then.
The Atlanta Falcons, who own the third pick, are also interested in Dorsey. They could move up to the second spot to make sure the Saints don't jump them to get Dorsey.
Brown was the 13th player taken in the 2006 NFL Draft. He started at right tackle as a rookie, so he can play both.
In 2006, Brown was charged with domestic abuse after his wife dialed 911 and told police her husband had struck here. The charges were later dropped.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10797100/rss

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2008, 06:43 AM
Are the Saints insane?

Wilson8
04-25-2008, 06:44 AM
This could actually help the Chiefs in the second round too. If St. Louis gets Brown they are less likely to draft an offensive tackle prior to the Chiefs second round pick. One more offensive tackle for the Chiefs to pick from.