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C-Mac
04-25-2008, 09:22 AM
McShay's blog...

DE Chris Long will be the Chiefs' pick if he's available, but should he be off the board Kansas City will want to retreat. swapping first-round picks with New Orleans and bringing [Jamaal]Brown into the fold would be an attractive scenario, as the Chiefs could then opt for another offensive lineman at No. 10 or get a much better value on their preferred defensive end, Derrick Harvey. And don't forget that extra picks beyond the swap of first-rounders would likely be included as well, so this would be a hard deal for Kansas City to turn down.

C-Mac
04-25-2008, 09:23 AM
Saints dangling Brown, hoping to move up for Dorsey
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10797100/rss

Pete Prisco April 24, 2008
By Pete Prisco
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

The New Orleans Saints are trying hard to move up in Saturday's draft for a shot to draft defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey of LSU, and one of the pieces they are shopping in a trade is left tackle Jammal Brown, according to a league source.

Brown, who has 43 starts in his three seasons in the league, is considered one of the better young tackles in the game, although his play dropped off some in 2007.

Brown went to the Pro Bowl in 2006 as a second-year player and was named to the All-Pro team. The decision to include Brown in trade talks shows the seriousness of the Saints and their want for Dorsey.

To get to Dorsey, the Saints would likely have to work out a deal with the St. Louis Rams to get the second pick. The Rams also like Dorsey, so it might be tough to pry that pick away. The Saints own the 10th pick in the first round, and Dorsey would certainly be gone by then.

The Atlanta Falcons, who own the third pick, are also interested in Dorsey. They could move up to the second spot to make sure the Saints don't jump them to get Dorsey.

Brown was the 13th player taken in the 2006 NFL Draft. He started at right tackle as a rookie, so he can play both.

In 2006, Brown was charged with domestic abuse after his wife dialed 911 and told police her husband had struck here. The charges were later dropped.

eazyb81
04-25-2008, 09:25 AM
So Kiper and McShay both are now saying we want Derrick Harvey?

eazyb81
04-25-2008, 09:25 AM
Also, I don't see why we're involved in this. Dorsey will not be available at 5.

Mr. Laz
04-25-2008, 09:26 AM
if the Saints can get Dorsey by moving up to our pick then we should just take Dorsey.

BigChiefFan
04-25-2008, 09:27 AM
Anyone else think McShay has mutiple personalities? My God, McSchtick, pick a mock and stick with it. It's pretty obvious he doesn't know what the Chiefs are going to do.

Rooster
04-25-2008, 09:28 AM
if the Saints can get Dorsey by moving up to our pick then we should just take Dorsey.

Exactly.

eazyb81
04-25-2008, 09:29 AM
if the Saints can get Dorsey by moving up to our pick then we should just take Dorsey.

Yep. This makes zero sense.

Sure-Oz
04-25-2008, 09:33 AM
**** the Saints, i'd rather us go after Dorsey

Reerun_KC
04-25-2008, 09:35 AM
After this year, Chiefs fans will have their own version of the Jets draft day Youtube...

The meltdown this year is going to be priceless...

Time to pop up some popcorn, this is going to be good!

Frazod
04-25-2008, 09:36 AM
I'll be glad when this is over. All this friggin speculation is driving my crazy. :banghead:

oaklandhater
04-25-2008, 09:37 AM
After this year, Chiefs fans will have their own version of the Jets draft day Youtube...

The meltdown this year is going to be priceless...

Time to pop up some popcorn, this is going to be good!

the meltdown wont be to bad as long has our number 5 is a d-linemen or a qb named ryan.

El Jefe
04-25-2008, 09:37 AM
After this year, Chiefs fans will have their own version of the Jets draft day Youtube...

The meltdown this year is going to be priceless...

Time to pop up some popcorn, this is going to be good!

It is going to be awesome to watch this place erupt.

keg in kc
04-25-2008, 09:38 AM
Thankfully 36-hours from now we won't have to speculate any more.

oaklandhater
04-25-2008, 09:39 AM
I'll be glad when this is over. All this friggin speculation is driving my crazy. :banghead:

same here seems like every mock I read has us takeing otah clady albert or tradeing down with our 5th pick makes me want to vomit.

Mr. Arrowhead
04-25-2008, 09:39 AM
If the saints did this, it make zero sense. We know how hard good young LT are to come by.

oaklandhater
04-25-2008, 09:42 AM
It is going to be awesome to watch this place erupt.

I fail to see how seeing our dreams Crushed and Smashed is azsome.

Then to top it all off some @$$hole chief fans will try to tell us the front office knows more then us and not to judge this draft till 2-3 years down the road even thought every one knows its shit.

SithCeNtZ
04-25-2008, 09:43 AM
Am I the only one who kind of likes the deal? I don't think we could go wrong either way, but picking up a sure thing at tackle while still getting the 10th pick plus whatever other picks they throw in is a pretty good deal. I wouldn't be upset if we took it.

The Bad Guy
04-25-2008, 09:45 AM
After this year, Chiefs fans will have their own version of the Jets draft day Youtube...

The meltdown this year is going to be priceless...

Time to pop up some popcorn, this is going to be good!

I know you look forward to misery, but go **** yourself.

Reerun_KC
04-25-2008, 09:55 AM
I fail to see how seeing our dreams Crushed and Smashed is azsome.

Then to top it all off some @$$hole chief fans will try to tell us the front office knows more then us and not to judge this draft till 2-3 years down the road even thought every one knows its shit.
Its not awesome.. Seeing the team you love for so many years, just fail and bottom out is not awesome...

But if it means that Carl and Herm will be gone within one, God help us, 2 years.. Then so be it..

This is the biggest draft in recent history for the Chiefs, if they screw it up, Which Herm and Carl can, then we will finally have life and a new beginning at Arrowhead when these 2 asshats are removed...

Mr. Laz
04-25-2008, 09:59 AM
The meltdown this year is going to be priceless...!It is going to be awesome Its not awesome.. :hmmm:

Pestilence
04-25-2008, 10:00 AM
So if Dorsey is gone....maybe they want to go after Ellis?

DaKCMan AP
04-25-2008, 10:00 AM
Its not awesome.. Seeing the team you love for so many years, just fail and bottom out is not awesome...

But if it means that Carl and Herm will be gone within one, God help us, 2 years.. Then so be it..

This is the biggest draft in recent history for the Chiefs, if they screw it up, Which Herm and Carl can, then we will finally have life and a new beginning at Arrowhead when these 2 asshats are removed...

You want the Chiefs to screw up their "biggest draft in recent history"? :spock:

nychief
04-25-2008, 10:02 AM
the raiders want to trade also... this is going to get really interesting.

The Bad Guy
04-25-2008, 10:03 AM
Let me go on record as saying that if the Saints want to give up a young, very good LT, who makes peanuts, plus their 10 for our 5, I would do it in about one second.

Fish
04-25-2008, 10:04 AM
Its not awesome.. Seeing the team you love for so many years, just fail and bottom out is not awesome...

But if it means that Carl and Herm will be gone within one, God help us, 2 years.. Then so be it..

This is the biggest draft in recent history for the Chiefs, if they screw it up, Which Herm and Carl can, then we will finally have life and a new beginning at Arrowhead when these 2 asshats are removed...

But what would you have to bitch about then? Carl and Herm represent your existence on this board. They are your yin. They complete you.......

jjchieffan
04-25-2008, 10:06 AM
Its not awesome.. Seeing the team you love for so many years, just fail and bottom out is not awesome...

But if it means that Carl and Herm will be gone within one, God help us, 2 years.. Then so be it..

This is the biggest draft in recent history for the Chiefs, if they screw it up, Which Herm and Carl can, then we will finally have life and a new beginning at Arrowhead when these 2 asshats are removed...

We are already in bad shape. This draft is going to potentially pull us out of that. As much as I despise Peterson, I do not want to see him screw this draft up to get rid of him. We are in the position we are in now due to the drafting in the Vermeil years. If we screw this one up, God only knows when we will be able to rebound from it.

BigChiefFan
04-25-2008, 10:07 AM
So if Dorsey is gone....maybe they want to go after Ellis?
That's what I think, as well.

keg in kc
04-25-2008, 10:07 AM
Let me go on record as saying that if the Saints want to give up a young, very good LT, who makes peanuts, plus their 10 for our 5, I would do it in about one second.I can't believe they'd ever make that offer.

DeezNutz
04-25-2008, 10:08 AM
Let me go on record as saying that if the Saints want to give up a young, very good LT, who makes peanuts, plus their 10 for our 5, I would do it in about one second.

I'm with you. Unless I'm missing something, we know that Brown can play at a very high level, and we'd still be in position to get an impact player at the 10 spot. This would be a great move, IMO. The only reason not to do this would be if you thought the player you could take at #5 has hall-of-fame potential.

Brown is a game-changer, so you'd have to be confident that you're getting more than just this not to take the deal. That said, I don't think the Saints would really be interested in dealing with us, particularly if Dorsey is their target.

Reerun_KC
04-25-2008, 10:13 AM
But what would you have to bitch about then? Carl and Herm represent your existence on this board. They are your yin. They complete you.......
I was here before Herm arrived and will be here after Herm is gone...

I dont think Chiefsplanet existed in 1988, so you have me on the Carl part.

Bitch about? absolutely nothing, there wouldnt be anything to bitch about, wouldnt life be grand?

Reerun_KC
04-25-2008, 10:14 AM
You want the Chiefs to screw up their "biggest draft in recent history"? :spock:
In all honesty, no I would like to see Carl and Herm draft enough talent so in 3 years, we will have a solid core of young players for the new GM and Coach to work with...

I dont want them to screw up this draft, but if anyone could do such a thing, these two would be tops of the list.

beach tribe
04-25-2008, 10:15 AM
But what would you have to bitch about then? Carl and Herm represent your existence on this board. They are your yin. They complete you.......

I'd have to agree. I have NEVER seen a post by reerun that wasn't about the suckage of Carl n co.

Reerun_KC
04-25-2008, 10:15 AM
:hmmm:

Pretty confusing huh?

Reerun_KC
04-25-2008, 10:16 AM
I'd have to agree. I have NEVER seen a post by reerun that wasn't about the suckage of Carl n co.
:clap:

crazycoffey
04-25-2008, 10:17 AM
I'd have to agree. I have NEVER seen a post by reerun that wasn't about the suckage of Carl n co.


nonsense, he's bashed MU many times too....

beach tribe
04-25-2008, 10:17 AM
nonsense, he's bashed MU many times too....

Why yes, you are right. I stand corrected.

JBucc
04-25-2008, 10:18 AM
So move down to ten, get a young pro bowl LT, take Albert at 10, Otah at 17, suddenly our O-line looks pretty damn good. Jus speculatin.

Reerun_KC
04-25-2008, 10:19 AM
Why yes, you are right. I stand corrected.
Beach Tribe, believe me, I am looking forward to the days we are free of Carl and Co. Then I will never have anything to bitch about.

crazycoffey
04-25-2008, 10:20 AM
In all honesty, no I would like to see Carl and Herm draft enough talent so in 3 years, we will have a solid core of young players for the new GM and Coach to work with...

I dont want them to screw up this draft, but if anyone could do such a thing, these two would be tops of the list.


Actually I don't think they'd "top the list" of people who can screw up drafts. The drafting part has so many variables anyway - it's not a perfect science but in talent evaluations and drafts we got a pretty good FO for that.

Now if you want to talk about contract negotiations and game calling, well I can't argue that one as much....

Braincase
04-25-2008, 10:21 AM
Did Joe Horn tap his wife too?

dj56dt58
04-25-2008, 10:21 AM
Am I the only one who kind of likes the deal? I don't think we could go wrong either way, but picking up a sure thing at tackle while still getting the 10th pick plus whatever other picks they throw in is a pretty good deal. I wouldn't be upset if we took it.

Im with you..then we could grab Harvey at 10 and Cromartie at 17..Great first round imo

Not to mention the last OT we got from NO worked out pretty well...

beach tribe
04-25-2008, 10:22 AM
Beach Tribe, believe me, I am looking forward to the days we are free of Carl and Co. Then I will never have anything to bitch about.

I Know bro.

Reerun_KC
04-25-2008, 10:22 AM
So move down to ten, get a young pro bowl LT, take Albert at 10, Otah at 17, suddenly our O-line looks pretty damn good. Jus speculatin.


So back to the draft, what other picks would we aquire from the Saints in this situation?

More Second round picks? Nexts years first?

Frosty
04-25-2008, 10:22 AM
Let me go on record as saying that if the Saints want to give up a young, very good LT, who makes peanuts, plus their 10 for our 5, I would do it in about one second.

Yeah - no kidding.

The Saints aren't dumb enough to do this, are they? I mean, Ditka's gone and everything.... :shrug:

DaKCMan AP
04-25-2008, 10:24 AM
So move down to ten, get a young pro bowl LT, take Albert at 10, Otah at 17, suddenly our O-line looks pretty damn good. Jus speculatin.

If we acquired Brown and drafted Albert we'd be better off taking someone other than Otah at 17.

beach tribe
04-25-2008, 10:25 AM
Im with you..then we could gram Cromartie at 10

Not to mention the last OT we got from NO worked out pretty well...

I like Cro, but he does not fit this D IMO.

He doesn't like to tackle. Pretty high pick for a cover 2 corner that shies away from contact.

dj56dt58
04-25-2008, 10:27 AM
I like Cro, but he does not fit this D IMO.

He doesn't like to tackle. Pretty high pick for a cover 2 corner that shies away from contact.

right..but playmaker nonetheless. Also you have to remember we would probably play more man and blitz more with younger more athletic corners

beach tribe
04-25-2008, 10:32 AM
right..but playmaker nonetheless. Also you have to remember we would probably play more man and blitz more with younger more athletic corners

I agree. I think he will be a good cover corner, but a 170lb guy doesn't help us on the field much, except on third down.............in the nickle.

I wish Flowers wasn't a ****in tard. he's the kinda guy we nned.

patteeu
04-25-2008, 10:35 AM
if the Saints can get Dorsey by moving up to our pick then we should just take Dorsey.

Exactly.

**** the Saints, i'd rather us go after Dorsey

Yep. This makes zero sense.

I bet that the thinking behind this is that New Orleans, having failed to move up high enough to get Dorsey, would be looking to move up high enough to take Sedrick Ellis.

StcChief
04-25-2008, 10:42 AM
I like Cro, but he does not fit this D IMO.

He doesn't like to tackle. Pretty high pick for a cover 2 corner that shies away from contact.
yeah... he must be related to Neon Dieon.

tomahawk kid
04-25-2008, 10:43 AM
Is Brown worth a sh!t?

Pitt Gorilla
04-25-2008, 10:45 AM
After this year, Chiefs fans will have their own version of the Jets draft day Youtube...

The meltdown this year is going to be priceless...

Time to pop up some popcorn, this is going to be good!I was thinking earlier this week that a good one could be put together already:

The Kansas City Chiefs select...Trezelle Jenkins
...Rashaan Sheehee
...Eric "The Roadgrader" Downing
...Junior Siavi
...Chris "Bigfoot" Wilson
...William Bartee


One could edit in Jets fans looking distraught after such picks. It's painful just typing it.

Sure-Oz
04-25-2008, 10:47 AM
I bet that the thinking behind this is that New Orleans, having failed to move up high enough to get Dorsey, would be looking to move up high enough to take Sedrick Ellis.

I heard they covet him as well, id rather have ellis also but if they have that OL and another pick added to #10 that cant be resisted

Basileus777
04-25-2008, 10:50 AM
I'd do that trade in a second, but I'm not buying that the Saints are stupid enough to trade him for that. Brown is better than Jake Long. Maybe Brown and a 2nd or 3rd for the 5th pick, that makes more sense.

CupidStunt
04-25-2008, 10:50 AM
Some are high on here. Jammal Brown and the No. 10 pick SMOKES whoever is available at No. 5. And I'm one of Dorsey's biggest fans. We couldn't possibly dream of raping the Saints like that.

Sure-Oz
04-25-2008, 10:51 AM
Some are high on here. Jammal Brown and the No. 10 pick SMOKES whoever is available at No. 5. And I'm one of Dorsey's biggest fans. We couldn't possibly dream of raping the Saints like that.

We raped them on Roaf so why not?

StcChief
04-25-2008, 10:55 AM
This could be a "butts in the seats" move by Saints since Dorsey is an LSU Tiger....

DT Fan
04-25-2008, 11:02 AM
Am I the only one who kind of likes the deal? I don't think we could go wrong either way, but picking up a sure thing at tackle while still getting the 10th pick plus whatever other picks they throw in is a pretty good deal. I wouldn't be upset if we took it.

Yeah, I like this deal a lot too. So much so that it actually makes me nervous that the Saints would be willing to part with Brown.

If this is real, it means one of two things: 1) After playing without Brown for part of last year while he was hurt, they feel like they have enough depth for their offense to survive without him so they might as well go get one of the two DTs who they love and feel like they desperately need; 2) They don't like Brown's attitude or work ethic or something and figure he won't rebound to his pro-bowl form so they might as well trade him now.

I'm not sure we could get Harvey at 10 since I think the Bengals pluck him at 9, but even if he's gone, you could potentially land Albert at 10 and one of the top corners at 17 (or vice-versa) so you wind up securing two spots on the O-Line and CB in the first round. Then, you could focus on D-Line and WR in rounds 2 and three.

keg in kc
04-25-2008, 11:02 AM
I bet if this deal happens, it happens with St. Louis at 2, and not us.

Frazod
04-25-2008, 11:03 AM
This could be a "butts in the seats" move by Saints since Dorsey is an LSU Tiger....

Certainly that's a major part of it.

the Talking Can
04-25-2008, 11:07 AM
so, what's the scoop on Brown then?

teams don't usually bail on young, signed, LTs

Pitt Gorilla
04-25-2008, 11:10 AM
so, what's the scoop on Brown then?

teams don't usually bail on young, signed, LTsYeah, something would have to be up there. Perhaps his injury is really slowing him down.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2008, 11:10 AM
Some are high on here. Jammal Brown and the No. 10 pick SMOKES whoever is available at No. 5. And I'm one of Dorsey's biggest fans. We couldn't possibly dream of raping the Saints like that.

QFT.

I've never had much interest in trading down, but if for some reason there's even a sliver of truth to this, we need to try and pull it off.

And FWIW, they've been (Saints) talking about moving up for Dorsey OR Ellis for a week to ten days.

They have to get ahead of at least Cincinnati, who will absolutely take Ellis if he's there.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2008, 11:11 AM
I bet if this deal happens, it happens with St. Louis at 2, and not us.

And I don't see the Rams moving down that far, at any cost. Not from what I've heard/read around town for the last month.

Probably why our name has been brought into discussions.

DT Fan
04-25-2008, 11:12 AM
So which is the better scenario for us: it goes Dorsey, Ryan, Gholston/McFadden so that we can draft Chris Long, or it goes Long, Ryan, Gholston/McFadden so we can draft Dorsey or trade him for Jamal Brown and #10?

Not even sure which to root for (but I'm definitely going to be rooting for Atlanta or a trade partner to call Matt Ryan's name).

JBucc
04-25-2008, 11:12 AM
so, what's the scoop on Brown then?

teams don't usually bail on young, signed, LTs
It seems like the Saints feel they have enough depth to replace him and that he doesn't get along with the coaches real well. Most Saint's fans seem to think trading him is a retarted move.

Adept Havelock
04-25-2008, 11:13 AM
Let me go on record as saying that if the Saints want to give up a young, very good LT, who makes peanuts, plus their 10 for our 5, I would do it in about one second.

Sounds pretty good to me as well. I think I could live with it.

keg in kc
04-25-2008, 11:14 AM
And I don't see the Rams moving down that far, at any cost. Not from what I've heard/read around town for the last month.

Probably why our name has been brought into discussions.I don't either, but my guess is the Rams are taking Dorsey, which is why if this trade happens, I think it's with them and not us. I don't think there's any way on earth Dorsey makes it to 5.

I don't see the 'aints making the same trade for Ellis.

JBucc
04-25-2008, 11:17 AM
Apr. 24 - 11:03 pm et

The Rams have "all but ruled out" a trade down, according to ESPN's John Clayton.
Apparently the Rams aren't serious about pursuing New Orleans' offer of Jammal Brown, assuming it's true. Clayton says St. Louis doesn't want to move all the way to No. 10. The Saints now are expected to turn their efforts to Sedrick Ellis, which could lead to a deal with Baltimore or New England.

I don't have a link, I got it off another board, but it's from rotoworld.

the Talking Can
04-25-2008, 11:18 AM
thanks

keg in kc
04-25-2008, 11:19 AM
Wow, there's a radio guy from Atlanta on with Petro right now, and he says "don't be surprised if the Falcons take Albert at 3, if they stay put". Apparently he's spent a few days in Atlanta in the last week, and nobody's talking about it. He then took him as his mock pick in the 2-minute drill draft Soren's doing.

Swanman
04-25-2008, 11:23 AM
Anyone else think McShay has mutiple personalities? My God, McSchtick, pick a mock and stick with it. It's pretty obvious he doesn't know what the Chiefs are going to do.

It's also pretty clear that he doesn't know his asshole from his elbow. Last night in ESPN's mock when Gholston was taken at #4, McDickHead threw a fit, saying he has Gholston at 15. I would say his analysis is unwatchable, but it does contain a lot of comedic value, so that redeems him a tiny bit.

Woodrow Call
04-25-2008, 11:25 AM
Wow, there's a radio guy from Atlanta on with Petro right now, and he says "don't be surprised if the Falcons take Albert at 3, if they stay put". Apparently he's spent a few days in Atlanta in the last week, and nobody's talking about it. He then took him as his mock pick in the 2-minute drill draft Soren's doing.

:eek: I can't remember the last time a player has shot up the charts like Albert has.

Pestilence
04-25-2008, 11:26 AM
So where does our BPA go....if the trade happens.

We get Jammal Brown and the #10 pick.

So now we have our LT and we still pick #10 and #17.

Do we then try and trade back up with the Pats to #7 to draft Ryan if he's still there?

Do we stay put and grab a DE at #10?

Who do we grab at #17? Mike Jenkins the CB?

keg in kc
04-25-2008, 11:28 AM
I can't remember the last time a player has shot up the charts like Albert has.He seemed pretty convinced Albert was the pick if Dorsey's off the board.

I didn't catch the guy's name, wish I'd paid more attention at the beginning...

royr17
04-25-2008, 11:29 AM
I'd do it. We get a proven Offensive Tackle in Jammal Brown, then we go guard with our 1st pick in bring in Branden Albert to fill the Right Guard position, and we can either draft defensive end or cornerback at # 17.

If I was the Chiefs I'd make this deal, cause I believe from what I heard if im correct that they want either Glenn Dorsey or Sedrick Ellis. I'd get on the phone and make this deal.

Coach
04-25-2008, 11:30 AM
Let me go on record as saying that if the Saints want to give up a young, very good LT, who makes peanuts, plus their 10 for our 5, I would do it in about one second.

I might consider it too. I still would send my guys to check on him and make sure that there isn't anything "out of the ordinary" on this guy. I mean, it's rare that some teams trade away a young LT who makes peanuts, just becuase they want to go up to get Dorsey.

Anyways, you going to the draft? IIRC, you went to one in NY awhile back, couldn't remember when it was.....

royr17
04-25-2008, 11:30 AM
It's also pretty clear that he doesn't know his asshole from his elbow. Last night in ESPN's mock when Gholston was taken at #4, McDickHead threw a fit, saying he has Gholston at 15. I would say his analysis is unwatchable, but it does contain a lot of comedic value, so that redeems him a tiny bit.

Have you seen him and Mel Kiper arguing about draft picks ? It's really funny.

royr17
04-25-2008, 11:33 AM
I might consider it too. I still would send my guys to check on him and make sure that there isn't anything "out of the ordinary" on this guy. I mean, it's rare that some teams trade away a young LT who makes peanuts, just becuase they want to go up to get Dorsey.

Anyways, you going to the draft? IIRC, you went to one in NY awhile back, couldn't remember when it was.....

I'd do it, if it was offered to us. You cant pass up deal like that. Last time we got a Offensive Tackle from the Saints he did really good for us, im talkin about Willie Roaf.

Like I said you got a young proven tackle in Jammal Brown, and it allows you to shift your focus to the other need positions being guard, defensive end, and cornerback.

Make the deal if it is offered, Period !

BigRock
04-25-2008, 12:19 PM
Here's the full entry, making clear that the deal is for Ellis, not Dorsey.


Saints upping the ante

According to a league source, the New Orleans Saints (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nor) are getting more serious in their efforts to move from No. 10 overall into the top portion of the first round in order to select DT Sedrick Ellis (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11738) and are dangling former Pro Bowl OT Jammal Brown (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7189) in front of a team with a higher pick.

Deductive reasoning tells us that team is likely the Kansas City Chiefs (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=kan), who have the fifth overall pick. The St. Louis Rams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl) should take DT Glenn Dorsey (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11996) at No. 2, and the Atlanta Falcons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=atl) (No. 3) and the Oakland Raiders (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=oak) (No. 4) do not have much interest in Ellis. The New York Jets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nyj) won't want to trade back from sixth overall because of the chance they could get RB Darren McFadden (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=12135&draftyear=2008) at No. 6, and the New England Patriots (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nwe) are rumored to be leaning toward Ellis at No. 7 because of the value that pick would offer. All of which means Kansas City is in a perfect spot.

DE Chris Long (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11845) will be the Chiefs' pick if he's available, but should he be off the board, Kansas City will want to retreat. Swapping first-round picks with New Orleans and bringing Brown into the fold would be an attractive scenario, as the Chiefs then could opt for another offensive lineman at No. 10 or get a much better value on their preferred defensive end, Derrick Harvey (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=12137). And don't forget that extra picks beyond the swap of first-rounders likely would be included as well, so this would be a hard deal for Kansas City to turn down.

Should the above deal be completed, though, it will have to happen on the clock, as the Chiefs are not going to make any kind of deal until they know whether Long will be available.

I like Ellis but I'm all over that offer like a monkey on a cupcake.

Rain Man
04-25-2008, 12:20 PM
Albert is shooting up so fast that he'd better be careful. He might rocket past the #1 pick in this draft and end up in the 7th round of last year's draft.

Woodrow Call
04-25-2008, 12:21 PM
Albert is shooting up so fast that he'd better be careful. He might rocket past the #1 pick in this draft and end up in the 7th round of last year's draft.

ROFL

JBucc
04-25-2008, 12:22 PM
Here's the full entry, making clear that the deal is for Ellis, not Dorsey.



I like Ellis but I'm all over that offer like a monkey on a cupcake.http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Tonito44/ThatsRacist.gif

Pestilence
04-25-2008, 12:24 PM
I'm hoping that Dorsey or Chris Long are there.....but it's looking they aren't.

I'd love to have Ellis on the team but I don't know if I could pass up the trade.

I'm still wondering if they take this trade and then trade back up to 7 with the Pats to grab Ryan if he's there.

Adept Havelock
04-25-2008, 12:25 PM
Albert is shooting up so fast that he'd better be careful. He might rocket past the #1 pick in this draft and end up in the 7th round of last year's draft.

LMAO

Won't that cause a tear in the Space-Time Continuum, dooming us all?

Swanman
04-25-2008, 12:40 PM
Have you seen him and Mel Kiper arguing about draft picks ? It's really funny.

Yeah, last night after McShay threw his little hissy-fit about Gholston at 4, Mel did everything short of outright calling him a retard.

tomahawk kid
04-25-2008, 12:42 PM
So majority opinion seems to be that Brown is a very solid LT?

The Bad Guy
04-25-2008, 12:43 PM
I might consider it too. I still would send my guys to check on him and make sure that there isn't anything "out of the ordinary" on this guy. I mean, it's rare that some teams trade away a young LT who makes peanuts, just becuase they want to go up to get Dorsey.

Anyways, you going to the draft? IIRC, you went to one in NY awhile back, couldn't remember when it was.....

I'm sure any trade would be contintengt on Brown passing a physical.

I'm planning on going. Have to wait outside this year in line for tickets. I went to the 05 and 06 draft. The new format will make it much more fan friendly.

Are you going?

royr17
04-25-2008, 12:43 PM
Please let these trade details be true.

I would take this deal in run with it, no question about it. We need a good proven Left Tackle and Jammal Brown is one and then we can draft Branden Albert to play Right Guard, and then get a Defensive End or Cornerback at # 17.

But this deal just seems to good to be true. Hopefully this gets done on draft day, cause if does then it would be a great trade. Last time we traded with the Saints we got Willie Roaf, hopefully this time this guy will make it a good trade too.

There's just no way you can pass this trade up, sorry to the guys that want Chris Long, even if he is on the board I wouldnt pass up on taking this trade. Same goes for Vernon Gholston.

Jammal Brown is a sure fire talent that you cant just let pass you by if he is offered, I believe if this deal has some truth to it, then on draft day if the Saints wanna move up to # 5 to get Sedrick Ellis then they will make this deal.

Valiant
04-25-2008, 12:47 PM
Am I looking at his game log correctly?? He has never played an entire season yet?? And if we do want him, won't he want a new contract??

And if the injuries are minor, I would actually say go for it.. A stud LT would help Brodie and LJ greatly..

The Bad Guy
04-25-2008, 12:48 PM
If this is the case, the Chiefs would truly rebuild overnight with a move like this.

Brown, Waters, Niswanger, Albert and McIntosh is 1000000x better than anything we could have hoped for.

I'm amazed they'd give up this much to get Ellis.

HemiEd
04-25-2008, 12:52 PM
After this year, Chiefs fans will have their own version of the Jets draft day Youtube...

The meltdown this year is going to be priceless...

Time to pop up some popcorn, this is going to be good!

This is the Super Bowl! The Chiefs are the stars!

Valiant
04-25-2008, 12:55 PM
Please let these trade details be true.

I would take this deal in run with it, no question about it. We need a good proven Left Tackle and Jammal Brown is one and then we can draft Branden Albert to play Right Guard, and then get a Defensive End or Cornerback at # 17.

But this deal just seems to good to be true. Hopefully this gets done on draft day, cause if does then it would be a great trade. Last time we traded with the Saints we got Willie Roaf, hopefully this time this guy will make it a good trade too.

There's just no way you can pass this trade up, sorry to the guys that want Chris Long, even if he is on the board I wouldnt pass up on taking this trade. Same goes for Vernon Gholston.

Jammal Brown is a sure fire talent that you cant just let pass you by if he is offered, I believe if this deal has some truth to it, then on draft day if the Saints wanna move up to # 5 to get Sedrick Ellis then they will make this deal.

Or hypothetically do this before the draft or during if the Rams do not select him and use our 10 and 17 to jump back up into the 3rd or 4th spot with Falcons or Raiders.. Hopefully the Falcons.. This would give a LT and another elite player hopefully..

Frosty
04-25-2008, 12:58 PM
:eek: I can't remember the last time a player has shot up the charts like Albert has.

Danger danger! Warning, Will Robinson!

http://www.aesystems.com/robot.jpg

HemiEd
04-25-2008, 01:07 PM
Albert is shooting up so fast that he'd better be careful. He might rocket past the #1 pick in this draft and end up in the 7th round of last year's draft.

ROFL

tomahawk kid
04-25-2008, 01:23 PM
If this is the case, the Chiefs would truly rebuild overnight with a move like this.

Brown, Waters, Niswanger, Albert and McIntosh is 1000000x better than anything we could have hoped for.

I'm amazed they'd give up this much to get Ellis.

And that's assuming we don't take another center in Rds 3-4, which I'm almost certain we will.

Brock
04-25-2008, 01:30 PM
Why would the Saints trade away a franchise left tackle? Somthing stinks.

Rain Man
04-25-2008, 01:39 PM
Why would the Saints trade away a franchise left tackle? Somthing stinks.

Yeah, that's too good a deal. Something tells me that Brown is either a) playing on an artificial leg, b) expecting Bill Gates money, or c) plans to join the Merchant Marine when his contract ends.

Anyong Bluth
04-25-2008, 01:39 PM
I'd love this deal.

You get Brown & still have 2 1st round picks. I'd take Albert at 10. I know he's moving up the board and all, but I'd feel a bit uneasy taking him at 5- seeing as how most teams are looking at switching him over to OT from guard.
We can't move past 10 really, but you know that Denver and other teams after 10 are going to be taking O-line. But I think at 10 you can still get Albert, possibly a different O-lineman or D-lineman.

I am starting to think that we should definitely take one of the other QB's with our 2nd. If Brody doesn't pan out this next year, and we tank, we will most likely have a top 3 pick next year, and the QB's next year from what I've seen aren't nearly as good. People can debate which one of the QB's they'd want besides Ryan, but I think I'd love to grab Brohm if we can get him in the 2nd. The guy was on everyone's board for so long as the top QB prospect and I think he has all the tools to be a very good QB. It's a good idea to give Brody some competition, as well as having some insurance, instead of feeling like we're going to have to use our very high 1st rounder on a QB next year- when the prospects coming out aren't looking to be as good as this year.

Moving back in this draft and picking up more picks for this year is a great idea in my mind. While its obvious that this years draft is fairly weak at the top of blue chip guys, it's also extremely deep with a lot of quality players that would probably go higher in other years. So if you can get better value in a number of players instead of sticking pat at #5 to get more choices or what not, it makes a lot more sense that trying to justify giving #5 pick money to a guy that probably isn't worth that sort of money- be it drafting for need or BPA.

Sign me up for trading picks with the Saints at 5 to 10: Taking Albert or maybe Harvey at 10 & getting Brown.

At 17: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie maybe??? Probably the top CB in the draft and may still be on the board- you have a need area and get the best CB debatably... welcome to other's suggestion.

Round 2: Brohm, kinda reminds me of Marino. Not the most mobile pocket passer, but has solid frame, height, mechanics, high release point, and his completion percentage is much better than the other 1 & 2nd round guys. People worry about his arm strength, I think he's got enough mustard to be fine and who really thinks were gonna be dropping deep bombs all that often under Herm. Didn't they say that Montana also had a weak arm?

Dick Bull
04-25-2008, 01:44 PM
I'd love this deal.

You get Brown & still have 2 1st round picks. I'd take Albert at 10. I know he's moving up the board and all, but I'd feel a bit uneasy taking him at 5- seeing as how most teams are looking at switching him over to OT from guard.
We can't move past 10 really, but you know that Denver and other teams after 10 are going to be taking O-line. But I think at 10 you can still get Albert, possibly a different O-lineman or D-lineman.

I am starting to think that we should definitely take one of the other QB's with our 2nd. If Brody doesn't pan out this next year, and we tank, we will most likely have a top 3 pick next year, and the QB's next year from what I've seen aren't nearly as good. People can debate which one of the QB's they'd want besides Ryan, but I think I'd love to grab Brohm if we can get him in the 2nd. The guy was on everyone's board for so long as the top QB prospect and I think he has all the tools to be a very good QB. It's a good idea to give Brody some competition, as well as having some insurance, instead of feeling like we're going to have to use our very high 1st rounder on a QB next year- when the prospects coming out aren't looking to be as good as this year.

Moving back in this draft and picking up more picks for this year is a great idea in my mind. While its obvious that this years draft is fairly weak at the top of blue chip guys, it's also extremely deep with a lot of quality players that would probably go higher in other years. So if you can get better value in a number of players instead of sticking pat at #5 to get more choices or what not, it makes a lot more sense that trying to justify giving #5 pick money to a guy that probably isn't worth that sort of money- be it drafting for need or BPA.

Sign me up for trading picks with the Saints at 5 to 10: Taking Albert or maybe Harvey at 10 & getting Brown.

At 17: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie maybe??? Probably the top CB in the draft and may still be on the board- you have a need area and get the best CB debatably... welcome to other's suggestion.

Round 2: Brohm, kinda reminds me of Marino. Not the most mobile pocket passer, but has solid frame, height, mechanics, high release point, and his completion percentage is much better than the other 1 & 2nd round guys. People worry about his arm strength, I think he's got enough mustard to be fine and who really thinks were gonna be dropping deep bombs all that often under Herm. Didn't they say that Montana also had a weak arm?


agree with everything but the qb,
I think brodies the guy and if he can't do it they were pretty high on thigpen

SBK
04-25-2008, 01:53 PM
I'd do this trade for the LT, the #10 and the Saints #1 next year. Otherwise I think I take Gholston with my 5 spot and a LT with my 17.

Don't see why NO would be shopping a pro-bowl LT.....smells fishy.

Coogs
04-25-2008, 01:54 PM
they were pretty high on thigpen

Does this scare anyone besides me?

Dick Bull
04-25-2008, 02:09 PM
Does this scare anyone besides me?


doesn't scare me

Direckshun
04-25-2008, 02:11 PM
I'd do this trade for the LT, the #10 and the Saints #1 next year. Otherwise I think I take Gholston with my 5 spot and a LT with my 17.

Don't see why NO would be shopping a pro-bowl LT.....smells fishy.
Character concern and his play trailed off. Plus he'll be demanding a payday before long.

I'm almost certain the Chiefs will pass. They want picks, not players.

ChiefsCountry
04-25-2008, 02:24 PM
Brown was in the same draft class as DJ, so he is still pretty young for our rebuilding movement. It would be something I would at least consider.

Anyong Bluth
04-25-2008, 02:25 PM
Character concern and his play trailed off. Plus he'll be demanding a payday before long.

I'm almost certain the Chiefs will pass. They want picks, not players.

What are his character concerns? I really don't know. The guy hasn't played an entire season yet, so either he's going to come here and excel and can expect a reasonable payout- which we're going to have to pay any tackle we have a good sum if he's going to perform like we are expecting. We could also trade for the guy and redo his contract with an extension in the hopes of getting him for a few more years at a cheaper price.

Besides, we have plenty of cap space right now. We're in no danger of cap space. We only have 51 players on the roster right now and alot of our guys will be playing under rookie contract for the next few years, so you could presumably sign the guy to an extentsion, and spread his salary more evenly instead of backloading the later years. This is commonly done, and teams usually have to put roster bonuses or up the signing bonus so the player will agree to backload the contract. What you would basically do is get him secured longer, lessen his signing bonus and not put yourself behind the 8 ball with a rediculous salary jump / roster bonus and be able to pay him a bit more on a yearly basis while we do have a lot more room under the cap. If he does pan out and has a backloaded contract / roster bonus- he would probably be right up against the same time we'll be having to resign a lot of our draft guys that are coming off their rookie contracts and be looking for much larger contracts. That would be a very silly thing to try to put yourself in a situation of having to decide who you can afford when you could have structured it beforehand to avoid that situation.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 02:25 PM
If the Chiefs do that and still take Albert you're looking at one of them either being a RT or a Guard.....hell Brown may be better suited to be a RT to be honest.

ChiefsCountry
04-25-2008, 02:37 PM
If the Chiefs do that and still take Albert you're looking at one of them either being a RT or a Guard.....hell Brown may be better suited to be a RT to be honest.

And take Chris Williams at 17, the OL people would be jerking off for days.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 02:38 PM
And take Chris Williams at 17, the OL people would be jerking off for days.

Then we'd still win 2 games and they'd wonder why.

Pestilence
04-25-2008, 02:44 PM
And take Chris Williams at 17, the OL people would be jerking off for days.

If we can get Brown and Williams....then I'd rather not grab Albert in the 1st. I'd try and get a CB like Jenkins or the BPA. Possibly look at trading back into the top 10 if Ryan is still there.

Direckshun
04-25-2008, 02:46 PM
What are his character concerns? I really don't know. The guy hasn't played an entire season yet, so either he's going to come here and excel and can expect a reasonable payout- which we're going to have to pay any tackle we have a good sum if he's going to perform like we are expecting. We could also trade for the guy and redo his contract with an extension in the hopes of getting him for a few more years at a cheaper price.

Besides, we have plenty of cap space right now. We're in no danger of cap space. We only have 51 players on the roster right now and alot of our guys will be playing under rookie contract for the next few years, so you could presumably sign the guy to an extentsion, and spread his salary more evenly instead of backloading the later years. This is commonly done, and teams usually have to put roster bonuses or up the signing bonus so the player will agree to backload the contract. What you would basically do is get him secured longer, lessen his signing bonus and not put yourself behind the 8 ball with a rediculous salary jump / roster bonus and be able to pay him a bit more on a yearly basis while we do have a lot more room under the cap. If he does pan out and has a backloaded contract / roster bonus- he would probably be right up against the same time we'll be having to resign a lot of our draft guys that are coming off their rookie contracts and be looking for much larger contracts. That would be a very silly thing to try to put yourself in a situation of having to decide who you can afford when you could have structured it beforehand to avoid that situation.
There was a domestic abuse charge leveled at him before 2007, but it was dropped. Then his production sagged in 2007. Character sirens should be going off in your head.

I like the guy a lot, but he's not worth it by himself. We shouldn't be paying anybody big this offseason.

Simply Red
04-25-2008, 02:50 PM
if the Saints can get Dorsey by moving up to our pick then we should just take Dorsey.

Dude, you're so `money.` YOU'RE SO MONEY AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW IT!:shake:

Simply Red
04-25-2008, 02:54 PM
There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know that you're money and that you want to party.

doomy3
04-25-2008, 02:55 PM
I would take this trade in a split second. Brown would be the second rated tackle in this draft and probably a top 10 pick. If you can get him and a #10 pick for a #5, I wouldn't even think twice about it.

Anyong Bluth
04-25-2008, 03:01 PM
There was a domestic abuse charge leveled at him before 2007, but it was dropped. Then his production sagged in 2007. Character sirens should be going off in your head.

I like the guy a lot, but he's not worth it by himself. We shouldn't be paying anybody big this offseason.



Do you know the specifics of the incident? I've been around the law long enough to know that just b/c you got charged with something that it doesn't = he's a bad guy. Plenty of crash bitches out there and cops routinely will charge people with chit that once a DA looks it over sees its a junk charge.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2008, 03:02 PM
I'd do this trade if it comes down--but only if Dorsey, Long, Ellis, and Gholston are all gone.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2008, 03:03 PM
There was a domestic abuse charge leveled at him before 2007, but it was dropped. Then his production sagged in 2007. Character sirens should be going off in your head.

I like the guy a lot, but he's not worth it by himself. We shouldn't be paying anybody big this offseason.

He's under contract until 2011, and makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 750k per year.

We wouldn't have to pay him big money for quite a while.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 03:04 PM
I'd do this trade if it comes down--but only if Dorsey, Long, Ellis, and Gholston are all gone.

That isn't going to happen, just doing the trade means you won't get any of them.

Pestilence
04-25-2008, 03:25 PM
He's under contract until 2011, and makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 750k per year.

We wouldn't have to pay him big money for quite a while.

Unless he plays well next year....and then I'm assuming he'll want a pretty hefty contract.

patteeu
04-25-2008, 03:26 PM
I'd do this trade if it comes down--but only if Dorsey, Long, Ellis, and Gholston are all gone.

The whole premise of the trade is that New Orleans wants Dorsey or Ellis.

patteeu
04-25-2008, 03:29 PM
I've read something that suggests that Brown limps around like his leg is about to fall off so there's still an injury concern here too. Of course, it didn't hold Willie Roaf back, but I sure don't want the Chiefs leaping into this kind of deal without getting a chance to have their doctors examine Brown first. Someone said something about a trade being contingent on Brown passing a physical, but you can't unwind the draft so if there's a contingency it would have to involve something other than returning the #5 pick to the Chiefs.

bowener
04-25-2008, 03:33 PM
I've read something that suggests that Brown limps around like his leg is about to fall off so there's still an injury concern here too. Of course, it didn't hold Willie Roaf back, but I sure don't want the Chiefs leaping into this kind of deal without getting a chance to have their doctors examine Brown first. Someone said something about a trade being contingent on Brown passing a physical, but you can't unwind the draft so if there's a contingency it would have to involve something other than returning the #5 pick to the Chiefs.

If this trade has truth i would imagine the chiefs have a dr there right now.

sedated
04-25-2008, 03:49 PM
wonder if we can trade with NO to get #10, then trade up to get NE #7 and take Ryan.

NO wants up, NE wants down, we want to get the QB before Baltimore.

patteeu
04-25-2008, 03:56 PM
If this trade has truth i would imagine the chiefs have a dr there right now.

I'd hope so.

Marco Polo
04-25-2008, 04:05 PM
wonder if we can trade with NO to get #10, then trade up to get NE #7 and take Ryan.

NO wants up, NE wants down, we want to get the QB before Baltimore.

How about we trade down with NO and get #10 and the LTOTF (Left Tackle Of The Future). Then we trade with NE giving them #10 and a third round pick and draft either Ellis or Gholston, whichever is left?

Imagine being able to have a LTOTF and Gholston/Ellis, all for giving up around a 3rd round pick (or whatever the draft chart says)

ZootedGranny
04-25-2008, 04:08 PM
My friend, who is a Saints fan, didn't like this rumored trade when it was for Dorsey, citing Brown's value. Now that it's for Ellis, I'm sure he's going nuts.

DT58HOF
04-25-2008, 05:06 PM
Thursday, April 24

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nfl/med/trans/nor.gif
Saints upping the ante

According to a league source, the New Orleans Saints (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nor) are getting more serious in their efforts to move from No. 10 overall into the top portion of the first round in order to select DT Sedrick Ellis (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11738) and are dangling former Pro Bowl OT Jammal Brown (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7189) in front of a team with a higher pick.

Deductive reasoning tells us that team is likely the Kansas City Chiefs (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=kan), who have the fifth overall pick. The St. Louis Rams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl) should take DT Glenn Dorsey (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11996) at No. 2, and the Atlanta Falcons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=atl) (No. 3) and the Oakland Raiders (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=oak) (No. 4) do not have much interest in Ellis. The New York Jets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nyj) won't want to trade back from sixth overall because of the chance they could get RB Darren McFadden (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=12135&draftyear=2008) at No. 6, and the New England Patriots (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nwe) are rumored to be leaning toward Ellis at No. 7 because of the value that pick would offer. All of which means Kansas City is in a perfect spot. DE Chris Long (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11845) will be the Chiefs' pick if he's available, but should he be off the board, Kansas City will want to retreat. Swapping first-round picks with New Orleans and bringing Brown into the fold would be an attractive scenario, as the Chiefs then could opt for another offensive lineman at No. 10 or get a much better value on their preferred defensive end, Derrick Harvey (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=12137). And don't forget that extra picks beyond the swap of first-rounders likely would be included as well, so this would be a hard deal for Kansas City to turn down. <!-- end free preview text -->

patteeu
04-25-2008, 05:19 PM
Thursday, April 24

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nfl/med/trans/nor.gif
Saints upping the ante

According to a league source, the New Orleans Saints (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nor) are getting more serious in their efforts to move from No. 10 overall into the top portion of the first round in order to select DT Sedrick Ellis (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11738) and are dangling former Pro Bowl OT Jammal Brown (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7189) in front of a team with a higher pick.

Deductive reasoning tells us that team is likely the Kansas City Chiefs (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=kan), who have the fifth overall pick. The St. Louis Rams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl) should take DT Glenn Dorsey (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11996) at No. 2, and the Atlanta Falcons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=atl) (No. 3) and the Oakland Raiders (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=oak) (No. 4) do not have much interest in Ellis. The New York Jets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nyj) won't want to trade back from sixth overall because of the chance they could get RB Darren McFadden (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=12135&draftyear=2008) at No. 6, and the New England Patriots (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nwe) are rumored to be leaning toward Ellis at No. 7 because of the value that pick would offer. All of which means Kansas City is in a perfect spot. DE Chris Long (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11845) will be the Chiefs' pick if he's available, but should he be off the board, Kansas City will want to retreat. Swapping first-round picks with New Orleans and bringing Brown into the fold would be an attractive scenario, as the Chiefs then could opt for another offensive lineman at No. 10 or get a much better value on their preferred defensive end, Derrick Harvey (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=12137). And don't forget that extra picks beyond the swap of first-rounders likely would be included as well, so this would be a hard deal for Kansas City to turn down. <!-- end free preview text -->

After thinking about this a little bit, it could just as easily be Atlanta that NO is looking at in this scenario. By most accounts, Atlanta would be willing to trade down (although maybe not all the way to #10) if Glenn Dorsey goes to St. Louis. Atlanta could use a LT too.

Pestilence
04-25-2008, 05:24 PM
After thinking about this a little bit, it could just as easily be Atlanta that NO is looking at in this scenario. By most accounts, Atlanta would be willing to trade down (although maybe not all the way to #10) if Glenn Dorsey goes to St. Louis. Atlanta could use a LT too.

If they trade with us...it'll cost them less.

patteeu
04-25-2008, 05:41 PM
If they trade with us...it'll cost them less.

Sure. I'm just pointing out that "deductive reasoning" doesn't really point specifically at KC just because Atlanta and Oakland "do not have much interest in Ellis."

Mecca
04-25-2008, 05:42 PM
If that happens pray to god that Keith Rivers somehow falls because he is substantially better than anyone else that could be taken at 10.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2008, 05:45 PM
If that happens pray to god that Keith Rivers somehow falls because he is substantially better than anyone else that could be taken at 10.

My guess is if they do trade back to 10, they are going to grab Harvey.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 05:46 PM
My guess is if they do trade back to 10, they are going to grab Harvey.

And punch me in the face......

That's just so eh, I don't think Harvey is nearly that good. So yea if they trade I will pray Rivers falls.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2008, 05:49 PM
And punch me in the face......

That's just so eh, I don't think Harvey is nearly that good. So yea if they trade I will pray Rivers falls.

And I'd all but bet they wouldn't take him even if he's there.

Just plan on being pissed.

I guarantee I know their thinking on this:

We already have Edwards and Williams at the WILL. This kid won't start over either of them.

Again, that is what I think THEY think. Not my personal thoughts at all.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 05:51 PM
If they really think that they are tards because Keith Rivers is about as close to Derrick Brooks as you'll get without cloning him. He's a 3 down player too he never has to come off the field.

If that really happens I'll laugh at the teams stupidity, Edwards is old as shit this should be his last year here...and for all we know Williams is a backup.

OnTheWarpath58
04-25-2008, 05:53 PM
If they really think that they are tards because Keith Rivers is about as close to Derrick Brooks as you'll get without cloning him. He's a 3 down player too he never has to come off the field.

If that really happens I'll laugh at the teams stupidity, Edwards is old as shit this should be his last year here...and for all we know Williams is a backup.

We KNOW they are retarded already.

This would be a typical Chiefs move.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 05:55 PM
Petro sure thought the Chiefs loved Rivers today, he said he thought they'd try to trade out with Baltimore because in his view the Chiefs have no interest in Ryan and thought they'd take Rivers at 8.

KcMizzou
04-25-2008, 06:10 PM
I heard about this on the radio today.

Man.. if they offer it, and the guy's healthy, I say jump all over it.

SBK
04-25-2008, 06:20 PM
I've rethought, dropping to 10 is too far if it's not including another 1st round pick and some.

I think we stay at 5, best decision we could make unless we can get another Herschel trade offered to us.

KcMizzou
04-25-2008, 06:21 PM
I've rethought, dropping to 10 is too far if it's not including another 1st round pick and some.

I think we stay at 5, best decision we could make unless we can get another Herschel trade offered to us.I can't decide whether you're serious or not...

Anyong Bluth
04-25-2008, 06:36 PM
I heard about this on the radio today.

Man.. if they offer it, and the guy's healthy, I say jump all over it.



How do you think you'll get 2 firsts and Brown... more than we got for JA..

Clearly not being serious

KcMizzou
04-25-2008, 06:38 PM
How do you think you'll get 2 firsts and Brown... more than we got for JA..

Clearly not being seriousHeh, I sure hope he isn't.

SBK
04-25-2008, 06:40 PM
I can't decide whether you're serious or not...

I am being serious. I wouldn't trade down unless we prison raped whoever traded with us.

So if someone went Herschel Walker on us then yes, I'd be willing to trade down, otherwise draft Gholston, Dorsey, Ellis, Long or Ryan.

KcMizzou
04-25-2008, 06:42 PM
I am being serious. I wouldn't trade down unless we prison raped whoever traded with us.

So if someone went Herschel Walker on us then yes, I'd be willing to trade down, otherwise draft Gholston, Dorsey, Ellis, Long or Ryan.We're only talking about moving 5 positions. It's still a top 10 first round pick. That's completely unrealistic.

SBK
04-25-2008, 06:59 PM
We're only talking about moving 5 positions. It's still a top 10 first round pick. That's completely unrealistic.

It's unrealistic because I DO NOT WANT US TO TRADE DOWN.
I would have thought that was obvious.....

KCrockaholic
04-25-2008, 07:01 PM
Its not awesome.. Seeing the team you love for so many years, just fail and bottom out is not awesome...

But if it means that Carl and Herm will be gone within one, God help us, 2 years.. Then so be it..

This is the biggest draft in recent history for the Chiefs, if they screw it up, Which Herm and Carl can, then we will finally have life and a new beginning at Arrowhead when these 2 asshats are removed...

i dont really understand why people think Herm will screw up our draft. If anyone will it will be Carl....we havent had a bad draft since herm became our coach, and hes a damn good scouter, thats what he was brought into the league to do when he started his career with the chiefs....both of the 1st round picks herm has picked have shown great promise (Hali and Bowe) which is much better than Vermeil did when he was here. Now i do not like herm that well but i must give credit where credit is due. If anyone has proof to show that herm isnt good at evaluating talent then go ahead, prove me wrong, idk maybe i am wrong you tell me?

KcMizzou
04-25-2008, 07:04 PM
I would have thought that was obvious.....It is. There's no reason to get pissy about it. I just strongly disagree. IF Brown is healthy, and IF the trade is even offered... I think we'd be fools to pass up a 27yr old pro-bowl left tackle over 5 spots in draft position.

KcMizzou
04-25-2008, 07:06 PM
i dont really understand why people think Herm will screw up our draft. If anyone will it will be Carl....we havent had a bad draft since herm became our coach, and hes a damn good scouter, thats what he was brought into the league to do when he started his career with the chiefs....both of the 1st round picks herm has picked have shown great promise (Hali and Bowe) which is much better than Vermeil did when he was here. Now i do not like herm that well but i must give credit where credit is due. If anyone has proof to show that herm isnt good at evaluating talent then go ahead, prove me wrong, idk maybe i am wrong you tell me?Reerun's anti-Herm no matter what. That's his schtick. If Edwards led us to three Super Bowls, he'd still hate on him.

I'm not saying the guys all that great either, just that the Herm bashing thing is all Reerun really does.

ChiefaRoo
04-25-2008, 07:15 PM
Its not awesome.. Seeing the team you love for so many years, just fail and bottom out is not awesome...

But if it means that Carl and Herm will be gone within one, God help us, 2 years.. Then so be it..

This is the biggest draft in recent history for the Chiefs, if they screw it up, Which Herm and Carl can, then we will finally have life and a new beginning at Arrowhead when these 2 asshats are removed...


moron

DT58HOF
04-25-2008, 07:43 PM
I am being serious. I wouldn't trade down unless we prison raped whoever traded with us.

So if someone went Herschel Walker on us then yes, I'd be willing to trade down, otherwise draft Gholston, Dorsey, Ellis, Long or Ryan.

are u an idiot? we get a pro bowl tackle drop 5 picks get a DE and we still pick at 17, we get 3 1st round players instead of 2
now with pick #35 Brian Brohm might still be there
hell we could get 4 starters and we still havent got to round 3 yet,lol

alanm
04-25-2008, 07:46 PM
This could be a "butts in the seats" move by Saints since Dorsey is an LSU Tiger....
Bingo. But I would think that they would pursue a trade with St Louis instead of KC. I still think Atlanta will take Ryan.

DT58HOF
04-25-2008, 07:49 PM
It's unrealistic because I DO NOT WANT US TO TRADE DOWN.
I would have thought that was obvious.....

have you lost ur mind?
we will get a pro bowl OT plus we still get to pick 10,17
so it's almost free, they wanted to move back anyways.
There is no OT left that is better right now then Jammal Brown,
so we are getting a free first rounder that has only played like 3 years
this would be the biggest steal for the chiefs ever, the rebuild might only take a year. We could maybe get 4-7 starters from this draft.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 07:50 PM
There must be something about Brown, if he was "that" good they wouldn't be trying to move him, there has to be something there.

alanm
04-25-2008, 07:51 PM
Then we'd still win 2 games and they'd wonder why.It would be because we can't stop the run or pass because we still wouldn't be getting any kind of push on the defensive line. :banghead:
Dorsey or Ellis please Carl and Herm.:grovel:

Brock
04-25-2008, 07:51 PM
have you lost ur mind?
we will get a pro bowl OT plus we still get to pick 10,17
so it's almost free, they wanted to move back anyways.
There is no OT left that is better right now then Jammal Brown,
so we are getting a free first rounder that has only played like 3 years
this would be the biggest steal for the chiefs ever, the rebuild might only take a year. We could maybe get 4-7 starters from this draft.

You're assuming there's nothing wrong with Brown. There must be, or they wouldn't be trading him.

Guru
04-25-2008, 07:52 PM
There must be something about Brown, if he was "that" good they wouldn't be trying to move him, there has to be something there.That is exactly how I am feeling about it as well. Just seems too good.

Anyong Bluth
04-25-2008, 07:52 PM
However, not that I think we'll even really get Brown and the 10th pick straight up for the #5. (probably give up a 4th or something like that if it would go down)

Ironically, we would be making trades with the Vikings and Saints, who have the probably the worst to draft trades of all time in Walker and Williams.

History repeating itself... I can handle that.

Sidenote: If Brohm is still available towards the late 1st round, I would totally give up some picks to move up to the end of the draft to get him, b/c I don't see him sticking around with Miami and Atlanta picking ahead of us in the 2nd.

Messier
04-25-2008, 07:54 PM
You're assuming there's nothing wrong with Brown. There must be, or they wouldn't be trading him.


Then no team would take the deal. You can't trade a bum player. All teams have these players examined to make sure they are fine. Either that or they make darn sure their injuries aren't career ending, or even make them miss any time.

DT58HOF
04-25-2008, 07:56 PM
That is exactly how I am feeling about it as well. Just seems too good.

well even if they make the trade and he is hurt worse than they are saying the NFL would compensate us for the player if they knowingly trade a hurt player without disclosing it to the Chiefs.

And Brown on his knees is better than what we have had the past few years, i would rather see him on his knees than our QB on his back.

Anyong Bluth
04-25-2008, 07:56 PM
There must be something about Brown, if he was "that" good they wouldn't be trying to move him, there has to be something there.

How can you make this assumption? We crap on our team's front office for not having a clue, and you expect them to make every move soundly.

I know we got Roaf at a bargain b/c of this outside circumstances, but never underestimate other teams letting players go that just don't fit in for their needs...

Horn worked for them- we didn't see the value
Holmes...
Farve...
Hasty...
Gannon...
Green...

Trust me, the list can go on and on, and I respect you more than most on this board in your NFL accumen.

Brock
04-25-2008, 07:57 PM
Then no team would take the deal. You can't trade a bum player. All teams have these players examined to make sure they are fine. Either that or they make darn sure their injuries aren't career ending, or even make them miss any time.

It isn't necessarily a physical problem.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 07:57 PM
A team wouldn't trade a mid 20s LT for no reason.......he has to have some issue, either that or they think he's not that good.

Skip Towne
04-25-2008, 08:00 PM
A team wouldn't trade a mid 20s LT for no reason.......he has to have some issue, either that or they think he's not that good.

Why did they let us have Willie Roaf?

C-Mac
04-25-2008, 08:00 PM
A team wouldn't trade a mid 20s LT for no reason.......he has to have some issue, either that or they think he's not that good.

True or just maybe they feel they can replace him with current a player.

Brock
04-25-2008, 08:01 PM
Why did they let us have Willie Roaf?

Because they couldn't keep him and Joe Horn on the same team.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 08:01 PM
Why did they let us have Willie Roaf?

Roaf had a blown knee, he did have an issue. and then tack on the Horn thing.

DT58HOF
04-25-2008, 08:02 PM
Roaf had a blown knee, he did have an issue. and then tack on the Horn thing.
wasn't that big an issue, he was still a pro bowler.

Brock
04-25-2008, 08:06 PM
Bleh. Just draft your own tackle, I'm not interested in trading for someone else's problems.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 08:07 PM
wasn't that big an issue, he was still a pro bowler.

So they got that one right, trading for players with issues doesn't always work out..

Messier
04-25-2008, 08:08 PM
I don't think teams only trade a player when there is something wrong with them.

Skip Towne
04-25-2008, 08:08 PM
There could be any number of reasons why they would let Brown go.

Anyong Bluth
04-25-2008, 08:11 PM
Roaf had a blown knee, he did have an issue. and then tack on the Horn thing.


Or it could simply be the fact that Brown has been injured every year he's been with them and they've had guys fill in that have done a good job, so they feel they can move him to gain value at another position, and the Chiefs happen to have a need at his position and a draft pick that they covet to get one of the guys they want to make the team better overall since they feel getting our #5 will let them select a player that will improve their team overall than having additional depth at a position their comfortable with.

Not really shocking- still think their giving up more than 1 would expect, but they are moving from top 10 to top 5... that's not a small jump, and I'm one that has devalued the idea of top 5 players in the draft b/c usually you end up paying them way more to sign than what they really end up contributing.

Brock
04-25-2008, 08:12 PM
He's been injured every year, I'd think that's it. No thanks.

Anyong Bluth
04-25-2008, 08:14 PM
Roaf got moved simply because Horn donked his wife and refused to play, and given his age he wasn't going to command more than a 2nd. They got a 3rd... Saints decided that it was smarter to keep the younger player, not a real mindboggler there.

Don't buy into the idea that the Saints thought he was spent. The guy spent 1/2 his time walking around like a cripple, but once the ball was snapped he dominated. Health concerns were not the deciding factor in the Roaf move.

Anyong Bluth
04-25-2008, 08:18 PM
He's been injured every year, I'd think that's it. No thanks.

Yeah its a gamble, but the value you get for him for what we give up assuming Dorsey and Long are gone is worth it. Any pick is a gamble. We could possibly pick up a pro bowl tackle to move back 5 spots and keep our 1st. At this point, the bold move is the right move.

No one is questioning Brown's talent- there are far less concerns with him than Pacman or other guys in the league.

SBK
04-25-2008, 08:39 PM
I got a tag. Perhaps if I was in the trade down each pick then I'd be cool....LMAO

KcMizzou
04-25-2008, 09:12 PM
I got a tag. Perhaps if I was in the trade down each pick then I'd be cool....LMAONobody's saying the Chiefs should trade down each pick, and you know it. What the Saints are (possibly) offering is too good to pass up.

I agree that it seems too good to be true, and it does make me wonder. But that said, we'd be kicking ourselves in the ass if we didn't take advantage of another team's blunder for once.

I DON'T agree that trading down is a bad idea no matter the circumstances.

Skip Towne
04-25-2008, 09:29 PM
Maybe they have someone who is better. Any number of reasons.

tiptap
04-25-2008, 09:41 PM
You're assuming there's nothing wrong with Brown. There must be, or they wouldn't be trading him.

I understand that their is a degererative condition for Browns' knee that was known when he came out of OU. Brown will be wanting a good salary. Here is the deal. He is probably good for a few more years. We can give him a good salary because we are so far under the cap and see his pro bowl play for 3 years. The ability then to get say Albert as well means this line has a big turnaround from last year. It is not a long term LT solution. I think it is worth considering. I would do it. The big lost in this is the chance of securing Ellis and his play on the defensive side. The number of players tells me to forgo Ellis. We look for rotation at the DT position as best we can this year. If we see improvement on the offensive run control then the defense won't be on the field as much IN THE BEST SCENARIO.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 09:43 PM
If he's only good for a few more years that's a no go, this team won't be ready for a few years.

Brock
04-25-2008, 09:45 PM
It is not a long term LT solution. I think it is worth considering. I would do it.

You're insane. If it's not a long term solution, there is absolutely no reason to do it, especially not at the cost of 5 spots in the draft at the top of the first round. No.:shake: No.:shake: No. :shake:

tiptap
04-25-2008, 09:47 PM
If he's only good for a few more years that's a no go, this team won't be ready for a few years.

That is at the worst. And all selections are speculative against injuries in the long run. The known is the high caliber of play when he is on the line.

tk13
04-25-2008, 09:52 PM
Logically speaking, if you trusted your scouting department, this is a trade you probably should make. Because, no matter the 8 billion mock draft possibilities... there is going to be someone that everybody thinks is really good who somehow slips down to that 10 spot. It happens every single year.

That doesn't mean I think we should trade down, there might be a player we really really want who we should just target at 5 that we think is going to be a HOF type game changer, you can't pass that up. But if they aren't there, a really good scouting department would probably make this trade and totally annihilate this draft. If you could get Brown, a 3rd, and a 6th/7th....you could literally be adding 15-16 new players to the team this weekend. That is incredible. If you do it right, you'd shorten the "rebuilding" process quite a bit.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 09:53 PM
If you trade to 10 you start praying to god that Keith Rivers drops to 10....

JBucc
04-25-2008, 10:13 PM
If you trade to 10 you start praying to god that Keith Rivers drops to 10....Gosselin has us taking him at 17

Mecca
04-25-2008, 10:20 PM
Gosselin has us taking him at 17

I will be SHOCKED if he falls that far.

HolmeZz
04-25-2008, 10:28 PM
Rivers is overrated. If we're going to go linebacker, Mayo's the better player.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 10:31 PM
Rivers is overrated. If we're going to go linebacker, Mayo's the better player.

I fully disagree with that.....

I guess as a LB being scheme disciplined wildly talented, excellent in coverage and very smart is overrated.

HolmeZz
04-25-2008, 10:38 PM
Good tackler, not wildly talented, and I don't think he's fluid enough to be anywhere near as good in coverage at the next level. He doesn't play with the athleticism that I want if you're taking an LB that early. He doesn't wreck havoc on an offense.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 10:40 PM
If you really think Rivers isn't athletic I have nothing to say really, I've only seen him play all of his college games but hey to each their own.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 10:42 PM
I'll add on here, Rivers for all that I've seen in him reminds me alot of Keith Bulluck....

HolmeZz
04-25-2008, 10:47 PM
I'm not saying he's awful. I'd say he's more of a really really poor man's Derrick Brooks(past his prime), just nowhere near the playmaker.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 10:49 PM
Here's what I want to know honest question....Rivers has always been well thought of because of his play, he worked out at what you'd expect..

Mayo was a 2nd-3rd guy then he works out and all of the sudden he's better than Keith Rivers?

I'm sorry I watch Tennessee play and Mayo is not the same player Rivers is, Mayo may be trendy cause he's rising when Rivers has always been there but he isn't as good not in my book.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 10:51 PM
Also I generally have no issue with your draft takes but I never ever thought I'd have to defend the athletic talent of Keith Rivers, honestly it makes me wonder how many times you've seen him play.

HolmeZz
04-25-2008, 10:56 PM
He doesn't play anywhere near athletic as he tests. I don't see him as a vocal point of anyone's defense and I don't think he's someone who can consistently wreck an opposing offense.

I never considered Mayo a late 2nd-3rd round guy. I prefer him because he can play inside and I think he's more of a playmaker.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 10:57 PM
I think Mayo is a poor mans Vilma, and I also think he better pray a cover 2 team picks him especially if they plan on putting him in the middle...

DT58HOF
04-25-2008, 11:47 PM
How can you make this assumption? We crap on our team's front office for not having a clue, and you expect them to make every move soundly.

I know we got Roaf at a bargain b/c of this outside circumstances, but never underestimate other teams letting players go that just don't fit in for their needs...

Horn worked for them- we didn't see the value
Holmes...
Farve...
Hasty...
Gannon...
Green...

Trust me, the list can go on and on, and I respect you more than most on this board in your NFL accumen.

who the hell is farve? u talkin Favre? like Brett Favre? if so he wasn't a Chief !!