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C-Mac
04-25-2008, 07:19 PM
Final mock draft: Plenty of movement down the stretch (http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d807f798d&template=with-video&confirm=true&?icampaign=TripleWide_0425)
Pat Kirwan By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst

There has already been some serious business this week. The first pick in the draft is locked up with Jake Long going to Miami. The Jared Allen trade to the Vikings has stirred up the first round and the Chiefs may be much more flexible about trading out of the No. 5 spot. I also believe they are getting a lot of calls about the 17th pick they received in the deal.

Lito Sheppard, Jeremy Shockey, Fabian Washington and a few other veterans could also stir up the selection process.

Recently, we witnessed a few players admitting to failed drug tests, another player having heart surgery and the last of the pro days reshaping the first day of the draft. As late as Thursday, teams were still flying around the country to get a final peak at candidates.

The wild card in the first round is still Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan, who could go at any number of spots in the opening round. There are varying opinions on Ryan and club executives in search of a quarterback can't waste much time comparing him to quarterbacks of years past. They need to ask themselves the question: If we pass on Ryan is there any guarantee we will get a player of equal or better talent next year? If he upgrades your team, it will be very hard to pass on him this year.

Atlanta, Kansas City, Baltimore and at least one other team have a very serious decision to make and it isn't going to be easy. History says the quarterback debate takes center stage in the hours leading up to the draft. Banking on Brian Brohm, Chad Henne or Joe Flacco being there in the second round is risky business. Not to mention, if those clubs believe Ryan is the best prospect than how can they wait?

I get the sense that a few of the decision makers on draft day are struggling with medical and/or off-the-field issues and for good reason. There's just too much money involved to take the risk anymore. Now that Long has taken a five-year deal from Miami instead of the traditional six-year deal at the top of the first round, the climate has changed dramatically.

A safe pick is going to trump a guy with great talent who may also present a risk. One-year wonders are another concern that seem to be on the mind of personnel directors with little time left before the draft. The Jake Long pick by the Dolphins sends a big message about how clubs look at the draft these days. Be safe and get the guy who has done it over time.


He has the Chiefs trading with Patriots and picking QB Matt Ryan at #9 and taking CB Michael Jenkins at #17.

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 07:26 PM
What an idiot.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 07:28 PM
What an idiot.

Are you upset he doesn't have them taking Clady?

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 07:29 PM
Are you upset he doesn't have them taking Clady?

More upset he has us taking A QB and a CB.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 07:30 PM
Um those are 2 things the team needs if you haven't noticed..

Brock
04-25-2008, 07:31 PM
I'd just take Gholston in that scenario I think.

DeezNutz
04-25-2008, 07:33 PM
:BS:Um those are 2 things the team needs if you haven't noticed..

:BS: What do you call Croyle and Surtain?






ROFL

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 07:33 PM
Uh yea, we also need 4 OL, and 2 DL a little bit more. Ever heard the saying championships are won up front. It tends to be pretty true.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 07:34 PM
:BS:

:BS: What do you call Croyle and Surtain?






ROFL

That was good, real good........I know there are people that actually think stuff like that though.

Deberg_1990
04-25-2008, 07:34 PM
More upset he has us taking A QB and a CB.

This team has a ton of needs. Those are just as big a need as everything else.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 07:36 PM
Uh yea, we also need 4 OL, and 2 DL a little bit more. Ever heard the saying championships are won up front. It tends to be pretty true.

Championships are won by star players....especially at the QB position.

Either way you don't value or devalue position over player 99% of the time. Especially when you are the Chiefs and in this spot they should be valuing players over positions.

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 07:38 PM
Championships are won by star players....especially at the QB position.

Either way you don't value or devalue position over player 99% of the time. Especially when you are the Chiefs and in this spot they should be valuing players over positions.


ROFL Star Players. How stupid can you be, have you ever played or coach football past pee wee or middle school? JW?


Last time I check Eli Manning isn't a "star" QB. He can be very good at times, but by no means a star. And what the hell are these "star" athletes going to do when every play there is a big DL or LB in their face 3 yards into the backfield because no one can block for them? Please explain this to me, you obviously know what your talking about.

DeezNutz
04-25-2008, 07:40 PM
That was good, real good........I know there are people that actually think stuff like that though.

I was hoping I would be first in with that. :D

I'll be happy with any of the following: Long, Gholston, Ryan, Ellis, Dorsey, Rivers. My preference is Long or Ryan, but I actually believe that Rivers might end up being the best of the bunch. He might instantly become the Chiefs' Patrick Willis, and this would change the entire complexion of the defense.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 07:40 PM
Coming from the guy who wanted Joe Staley over Bowe....means alot...

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 07:42 PM
Coming from the guy who wanted Joe Staley over Bowe....means alot...

I never said anything about Dwayne Bowe, I said I would rather have Staley over Jarret because I didn't think he would be a good NFL WR. But nice try.

You also never answered my question.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2008, 07:43 PM
ROFL Star Players. How stupid can you be, have you ever played or coach football past pee wee or middle school? JW?


Last time I check Eli Manning isn't a "star" QB. He can be very good at times, but by no means a star. And what the hell are these "star" athletes going to do when every play there is a big DL or LB in their face 3 yards into the backfield because no one can block for them? Please explain this to me, you obviously know what your talking about.

Hate to point this out to you, jackf*ck, but Michael Strahan, Plax Burress, Osi Umenyiora, and Antonio Pierce are stars.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 07:43 PM
I don't care how good your line is, if you don't have any stars you aren't gonna win.

You think the Pats or Colts would win without their cornerstone star QB's?

Every team has to have core star players that the teams are built around.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 07:44 PM
Hate to point this out to you, jackf*ck, but Michael Strahan, Plax Burress, Osi Umenyiora, and Antonio Pierce are stars.

Shh, they obviously don't count...

DeezNutz
04-25-2008, 07:45 PM
Hate to point this out to you, jackf*ck, but Michael Strahan, Plax Burress, Osi Umenyiora, and Antonio Pierce are stars.

Pierce? :hmmm: Compared to our linebackers or the rest of the league?

dirk digler
04-25-2008, 07:47 PM
This is a silly mock draft Ryan isn't going to fall to 9.

I would be very happy with Long, Gholsten, Dorsey, Ellis at #5 and an OL at 17.

philfree
04-25-2008, 07:50 PM
ROFL Star Players. How stupid can you be, have you ever played or coach football past pee wee or middle school? JW?


Last time I check Eli Manning isn't a "star" QB. He can be very good at times, but by no means a star. And what the hell are these "star" athletes going to do when every play there is a big DL or LB in their face 3 yards into the backfield because no one can block for them? Please explain this to me, you obviously know what your talking about.


Eli played like a star during the playoffs so i'd say he became a star this past post season.

PhilFree:arrow:

aturnis
04-25-2008, 07:50 PM
Um those are 2 things the team needs if you haven't noticed..


I thought only idiots drafted based on need?

Mo-ron

Deberg_1990
04-25-2008, 07:53 PM
Last time I check Eli Manning isn't a "star" QB. He can be very good at times, but by no means a star. And what the hell are these "star" athletes going to do when every play there is a big DL or LB in their face 3 yards into the backfield because no one can block for them? Please explain this to me, you obviously know what your talking about.

Do you realize Eli made several huge plays down the stretch and in the playoffs for the Giants??? The Giants would not have won the Super Bowl without him.

blueballs
04-25-2008, 07:54 PM
Who cares what this girl thinks

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 07:54 PM
Hate to point this out to you, jackf*ck, but Michael Strahan, Plax Burress, Osi Umenyiora, and Antonio Pierce are stars.


Yes, and two of them are linemen.


jackf*ck

ROFL

Brock
04-25-2008, 07:55 PM
Do you realize Eli made several huge plays down the stretch and in the playoffs for the Giants??? The Giants would not have won the Super Bowl without him.

Actually, any number of qbs could have done what he did.

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 07:55 PM
Eli played like a star during the playoffs so i'd say he became a star this past post season.

PhilFree:arrow:

He was very inconsistent, I'm not saying he wont be, but he wasn't this season. Although he did play very well in the Playoffs.

Deberg_1990
04-25-2008, 07:57 PM
Actually, any number of qbs could have done what he did.


Perhaps....but dont knock Eli for making the plays when he had to.

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 07:58 PM
I don't care how good your line is, if you don't have any stars you aren't gonna win.

You think the Pats or Colts would win without their cornerstone star QB's?

Every team has to have core star players that the teams are built around.

Your saying we don't have any key players? LJ, Gonzo, DJ,Tamba, Bowe aren't players you can build a team around?

Brock
04-25-2008, 07:58 PM
Perhaps....but dont knock Eli for making the plays when he had to.

I give him every bit of credit for not screwing it up. However, I would also put his odds pretty long on ever doing it again.

Deberg_1990
04-25-2008, 08:01 PM
Your saying we don't have any key players? LJ, Gonzo, DJ,Tamba, Bowe aren't players you can build a team around?

Funny how we are missing the most important one of all: QB

Mecca
04-25-2008, 08:04 PM
Your saying we don't have any key players? LJ, Gonzo, DJ,Tamba, Bowe aren't players you can build a team around?

For the love of god Tony Gonzalez is getting old, we have to stop counting him he isn't going to play for 10 more years. Same for Larry Johnson RB years are like dog years he's on the wrong side of his career too..

The other guys hey we'll see, Bowe so far yea, DJ is improving and Hali isn't really a cornerstone he's solid.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 08:04 PM
I thought only idiots drafted based on need?

Mo-ron

You didn't notice that everything on the team is a need eh?

SCTrojan
04-25-2008, 08:05 PM
Not a big fan of it. In a draft where all the top prospects have some question marks, I think Ryan has more question marks than Ellis or even one of the tackles still available at #10.

I agree that a franchise quarterback is a key element in building a winning team, I'm just not convinced Ryan is that guy.

Having said that, I wouldn't roof test my TV if it happened.

eazyb81
04-25-2008, 08:08 PM
Like I said in the same thread on the Draft forum, I am a big fan of this mock. No, we don't get the elite OT that everyone is clamoring for, but we get two stud prospects, one at the most important position in football.

That said, all this arguing is probably a waste of time since Atlanta will most likely take Ryan. Adam Shefter reported tonight on NFLN that Matt Ryan is at the top of Atlanta's draft board, and they will take him even if Dorsey is available. He also said Ryan is on the top of more team boards than most would expect.

Who knows, maybe it's last second posturing to see if KC trades up, but I think Atlanta will end up with Ryan when it's all said and done.

philfree
04-25-2008, 08:13 PM
He was very inconsistent, I'm not saying he wont be, but he wasn't this season. Although he did play very well in the Playoffs.


60% completions(yeah that's not great but it ain't bad) and 6to1 TD/INT ratio playing in some awful conditions some of the time and he made the plays when he had to for the Giants to win.

PhilFree:arrow:

Deberg_1990
04-25-2008, 08:14 PM
ANother thing everyone needs to realize is that even with 13 draft picks, we arnt going to hit on every single one of them.

Id be ecstatic if we nailed 5 or 6 solid long term starters. Even that might be wishful thinking...

This is a good 2-3 year rebuild.

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 08:37 PM
Funny how we are missing the most important one of all: QB

No one on this message board knows if Croyle is going to be good. He hasn't had a o-line to keep him off his ass, and he hasn't played a whole season. I don't want to be on the same situation the Browns are in, because we never gave the guy a chance.

Brock
04-25-2008, 08:38 PM
LOL, do you really think the Browns regret drafting Brady Quinn?

Deberg_1990
04-25-2008, 08:39 PM
I don't want to be on the same situation the Browns are in, because we never gave the guy a chance.

HUH?? The Browns are in a great position. Id love for the Chiefs to be in a position like that.

eazyb81
04-25-2008, 08:40 PM
Having one and potentially two great QBs doesn't sound like a horrible situation to me.

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 08:42 PM
LOL, do you really think the Browns regret drafting Brady Quinn?

I never said they regretted anything. But I don't want a first round QB getting paid first round money, and Croyle ends up being something special. The browns now have 2 young QB's, and only 1 can play. If they gave Anderson another year to prove himself, they wouldn't of had to draft Quinn, and would of had another draft pick in the first round for whatever else they needed.

Brock
04-25-2008, 08:44 PM
I never said they regretted anything. But I don't want a first round QB getting paid first round money, and Croyle ends up being something special. The browns now have 2 young QB's, and only 1 can play. If they gave Anderson another year to prove himself, they wouldn't of had to draft Quinn, and would of had another draft pick in the first round for whatever else they needed.

Let me rephrase my question so you actually have to answer it: Do you really think the Browns wish they could have their pick back this year instead of having Brady Quinn?

philfree
04-25-2008, 08:44 PM
No one on this message board knows if Croyle is going to be good. He hasn't had a o-line to keep him off his ass, and he hasn't played a whole season. I don't want to be on the same situation the Browns are in, because we never gave the guy a chance.


I'm backing Croyle but I can see the merit in drafting Ryan. The competition between the two could let us see if what we have in Croyle a little fraster and how he performs under pressure. Actually that applies to both he and Ryan.

PhilFree:arrow:

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 08:46 PM
Let me rephrase my question so you actually have to answer it: Do you really think the Browns wish they could have their pick back this year instead of having Brady Quinn?

I don't know about them, but I would. If you knew Anderson was going to be this good, would you of drafted Quinn? Obviously no.

aturnis
04-25-2008, 08:47 PM
You didn't notice that everything on the team is a need eh?

Except LT. About a month ago when the debate was J. Long vs. Dorsey/Ellis, you told everyone it would be stupid to take a 10yr. answer at LT based on out need for the position. You act all condescending on the subject only to change your tune a month later.

Deberg_1990
04-25-2008, 08:48 PM
I don't know about them, but I would. If you knew Anderson was going to be this good, would you of drafted Quinn? Obviously no.

Heres the deal. If Anderson turns out to be the real deal again this year, then the Browns will probably deal Quinn for a nice draft pick next year.

If Anderson falls flat, then they have Quinn waiting in the wings....

Not a bad situation to be in.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2008, 08:48 PM
No one on this message board knows if Croyle is going to be good. He hasn't had a o-line to keep him off his ass, and he hasn't played a whole season. I don't want to be on the same situation the Browns are in, because we never gave the guy a chance.

So it's ok to draft a DT after one year of Tank and Turk, but not a QB after two years of Croyle given his injury history...

I love logic.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2008, 08:49 PM
I don't know about them, but I would. If you knew Anderson was going to be this good, would you of drafted Quinn? Obviously no.

Who says Anderson is even that good??

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2008, 08:51 PM
Except LT. About a month ago when the debate was J. Long vs. Dorsey/Ellis, you told everyone it would be stupid to take a 10yr. answer at LT based on out need for the position. You act all condescending on the subject only to change your tune a month later.

Wow...

Did you ever think that just maybe Dorsey, Ellis, Gholston, and Chris Long are better players than a guy who is best suited to play right tackle??

Mecca
04-25-2008, 08:51 PM
Except LT. About a month ago when the debate was J. Long vs. Dorsey/Ellis, you told everyone it would be stupid to take a 10yr. answer at LT based on out need for the position. You act all condescending on the subject only to change your tune a month later.

I said I didn't feel Jake Long was good enough to warrant a top 5 pick and I still don't....

I don't think OL are worth top 5 picks unless they are absolute 100% locks with no flaws.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 08:52 PM
Wow...

Did you ever think that just maybe Dorsey, Ellis, Gholston, and Chris Long are better players than a guy who is best suited to play right tackle??

He doesn't have good comprehension skills, he tends to misinterpret things.

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 08:53 PM
Who says Anderson is even that good??

His stats?

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 08:54 PM
So it's ok to draft a DT after one year of Tank and Turk, but not a QB after two years of Croyle given his injury history...

I love logic.

I want a DE and and OT. Not a DT

Deberg_1990
04-25-2008, 08:55 PM
I want a DE and and OT. Not a DT


and what if they dont get those this year?? I mentioned earlier they wont get everything they need this year. Thats reality.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 08:55 PM
I want a DE and and OT. Not a DT

Really?

I want the guys I think will be the best players.

aturnis
04-25-2008, 08:56 PM
Wow...

Did you ever think that just maybe Dorsey, Ellis, Gholston, and Chris Long are better players than a guy who is best suited to play right tackle??

What does this have to do with me? I Don't think Dorsey or Long will be available, and not many people did back then either. I would like Ellis myself, but definitely not Gholston.

It's a "moo" point now anyways, just thought I'd call Mecca on his hypocrisies.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 08:57 PM
And what is wrong with Gholston.....

dirk digler
04-25-2008, 08:59 PM
Wow...

Did you ever think that just maybe Dorsey, Ellis, Gholston, and Chris Long are better players than a guy who is best suited to play right tackle??

We will see how this all plays out but IMHO Jake Long is the best player in this draft. Listening to other teams in the Top 5 they all had Long rated #1 on their board.

aturnis
04-25-2008, 09:00 PM
Consensus bust...

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2008, 09:00 PM
What does this have to do with me? I Don't think Dorsey or Long will be available, and not many people did back then either. I would like Ellis myself, but definitely not Gholston.

It's a "moo" point now anyways, just thought I'd call Mecca on his hypocrisies.

The fact that you don't like Gholston makes me feel a little better about his prospects.

LiL stumppy
04-25-2008, 09:01 PM
and what if they dont get those this year?? I mentioned earlier they wont get everything they need this year. Thats reality.

We will get both this year.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2008, 09:02 PM
We will see how this all plays out but IMHO Jake Long is the best player in this draft. Listening to other teams in the Top 5 they all had Long rated #1 on their board.

Long and Long being high on boards has to do with the fact that they are "safe" picks, and guys like Phil Savage have admitted as much. You don't win championships with safe picks, though. If you were looking at talent, you'd find that Gholston, McFadden, Dorsey and Ellis were higher rated players.

I just feel like those guys are B+ pros at best. Gholston is the kind of guy who can change an entire game.

dirk digler
04-25-2008, 09:02 PM
Consensus bust...

Could be we will see in a couple of years.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-25-2008, 09:03 PM
Consensus bust...

Typical Chiefs fan. Fret about a guy like Antonio Cromartie and PBJ if you get Tamba Hali.

Skip Towne
04-25-2008, 09:05 PM
Really?

I want the guys I think will be the best players.

.....and will start immediately.

dirk digler
04-25-2008, 09:06 PM
Long and Long being high on boards has to do with the fact that they are "safe" picks, and guys like Phil Savage have admitted as much. You don't win championships with safe picks, though. If you were looking at talent, you'd find that Gholston, McFadden, Dorsey and Ellis were higher rated players.

I just feel like those guys are B+ pros at best. Gholston is the kind of guy who can change an entire game.

I personally feel that Jake Long will play longer than any of those players and probably will be a starter for 10+ years. If that is safe that is ok with me. I would love the Chiefs to have a LT they can depend on for the next 10 years.

By saying that I am not knocking any of those guys because I like each one except maybe McFadden. I just feel Jake Long is a little bit better.

aturnis
04-25-2008, 09:09 PM
Gholston is the kind of guy who can change an entire game.

You see...you are the only one I hear saying this...all the guys who get paid to say stuff, say he disappears. That he is a workout warrior, and hell of a highlight film...but when you watch a few games, he has a tendency to get swallowed up and disappear.

I realize talking head are just that, but...I still think they have an edge on most all of us.

Messier
04-25-2008, 09:16 PM
Typical Chiefs fan. Fret about a guy like Antonio Cromartie and PBJ if you get Tamba Hali.

I know this has been brought up before but Cromartie was drafted before Hali, and besides, I'm not upset with the Hali pick.

Mecca
04-25-2008, 09:22 PM
I know this has been brought up before but Cromartie was drafted before Hali, and besides, I'm not upset with the Hali pick.

Before that draft a ton of people didn't want him because well I was pushing for him...it's the point that a ton of fans here didn't want Cromartie even if he had been there.

Brock
04-25-2008, 09:32 PM
.....and will start immediately.

Who wouldn't start on this team?

GoHuge
04-25-2008, 09:56 PM
Matt Ryan won't be there at #9.