18 Veterans Attempt Suicide... Per Day

[Taco John]

VA official accused of covering up suicide rates
Dems call for mental health chief to quit after e-mails contradict reports

Thurs., April. 24, 2008
WASHINGTON - Two Democratic senators have called for the chief mental health official of the Veterans Affairs Department to resign, saying he tried to cover up the rising number of veteran suicides.

Sens. Daniel Akaka of Hawaii and Patty Murray of Washington state said Tuesday that Dr. Ira Katz, the VA's mental health director, withheld crucial information on the true suicide risk among veterans.

"Dr. Katz's irresponsible actions have been a disservice to our veterans, and it is time for him to go," said Murray, a member of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. "The No. 1 priority of the VA should be caring for our veterans, not covering up the truth."

Akaka, the committee's chairman, said in a letter to the VA that Katz's "personal conduct and professional judgment" had been called into question by his response to veteran suicides.

Veterans, and the VA itself, "would be best served by his immediate resignation," Akaka said.

A number of Democratic senators said they were appalled at e-mails showing Katz and other VA officials apparently trying to conceal the number of suicides by veterans. An e-mail message from Katz disclosed this week as part of a lawsuit that went to trial in San Francisco starts with "Shh!" and claims 12,000 veterans a year attempt suicide while under department treatment.

"Is this something we should (carefully) address ourselves in some sort of release before someone stumbles on it?" the e-mail asks.

A VA spokesman declined to comment Tuesday.

Demands for better tracking of suicides
Another e-mail said an average of 18 war veterans kill themselves each day — and five of them are under VA care when they commit suicide.

"It is completely outrageous that the federal agency charged with helping veterans would instead cover up the hard truth — that more and more Americans coming home after bravely fighting for their country are suffering from mental illnesses and in the most tragic circumstances, committing suicide," said Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa. "Anyone at the VA who is involved in this cover-up should be removed immediately."

Harkin, Murray and Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., introduced legislation Tuesday calling on the VA to track how many veterans commit suicide each year. Currently, VA facilities record the number of suicides and attempted suicides in VA facilities — but do not record how many veterans overall take their own lives. The agency, however, is reluctant to disclose specific numbers, veterans advocates complain.

The new bill would require the VA to report to Congress within 180 days the number of veterans who have died by suicide since Jan. 1, 1997, and continue reports annually. Harkin's office said statistics provided earlier this year by the VA showed that 790 veterans under VA care attempted suicide in 2007. That figure is contradicted by the e-mail revealed this week.

Two veterans groups last year filed the class-action lawsuit against a sprawling VA system that handled a record 838,000 claims last year. A government lawyer on Monday urged a judge to dismiss the lawsuit, saying the agency runs a "world class" medical care system.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24302814/

[Adam]

Last year I spoke with an Iraq vet who described how many of her friends were coming home, unable to deal with severe depression, and many of them were becoming panhandlers. She also described her own depression/post-traumatic stress disorder and how she had to fight through it and overcome the things she witnessed in that country. Very sad. These stories and personal experiences don't show up in the body count.

4,000 dead, tens of thousands wounded and in pain, and many more mentally wrecked. And no end in sight.

[Silock]

I wonder how the numbers compare with past wars. The mental health of the returning soldiers is a HUGE deal.

[mikey23545]

Wait a minute...Does this specifically say "Iraq war veterans" or just veterans?

Is it referring to any vet (in other words, anyone who ever served in any branch of the military)? What is that number? 25,000,000? How many are old, in poor health seniors? Os this really anything but a bunch of PMSNBC bullshit?

[banyon]

Wait a minute...Does this specifically say "Iraq war veterans" or just veterans?

Is it referring to any vet (in other words, anyone who ever served in any branch of the military)? What is that number? 25,000,000? How many are old, in poor health seniors? Os this really anything but a bunch of PMSNBC bullshit?

NOTHING TO SEE HERE... PLEASE DISPERSE

http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/nakedgun.gif

[Sully]

Wait a minute...Does this specifically say "Iraq war veterans" or just veterans?


Does it matter?
Do we owe less to veterans that didn't fight in Iraq?

[banyon]

Real Clear Numbers: 101,000 U.S. Casualties a Year

http://www.creators.com/opinion/alexander-cockburn/real-clear-numbers-101-000-u-s-casualties-a-year.html

A friend of mine who's a librarian was recently reviewing job applicants. Asked his qualifications in library skills, one man put “machine gunner.” He was a vet who'd served in Falluja. The library is in a state school here in the United States that, last fall, had 650 such vets enrolled. The young man got the job but soon became irked by what he saw as the trivial preoccupations of his colleagues. He applied for a job at a nearby police department. All over the country, police departments are advertising for Iraq vets. Three-quarters of the way through the hiring process, the PD signaled to him that things looked good. Then, in rapid succession, three Iraq vets in the area were involved in lethal episodes: two murders and one suicide. The PD immediately called the young man in for a second psychological evaluation, then nixed him for the job. He's 24. He can't find anything satisfying to do and is thinking of re-enlisting. He's against the war.

Those violent episodes are just part of bringing the war home. It'll be active on the home front for years to come. Just fewer than one in three — 31 percent — of those who've been deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan suffer from a brain injury or stress disorder or a mix of both these conditions.

On April 17, the RAND Corporation released a study of service members and veterans back home from Iraq and Afghanistan. The 500-page study was titled Invisible Wounds of War: Psychological and Cognitive Injuries, Their Consequences, and Services to Assist Recovery. It was sponsored by a grant from the California Community Foundation and done by twenty-five researchers from RAND Health and the RAND National Security Research Division. From last August to January, the team conducted a phone survey with 1,965 service members, reservists and veterans in twenty-four areas across the country with high concentrations of those people. Some had done more than one tour.

The Associated Press and major newspapers outlined the RAND report's astounding numbers and then the story slid from view, which is a very bad thing, since the report disclosed in compelling numbers that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are steadily filling every American community with psychologically and physically mutilated victims of war. Many of them will endure lives saturated with physical pain and mental turmoil or confusion. A proportion will be prone to alcoholism, drug use and violence, sometimes deadly. Their partners and their children will suffer all measure of scarring.

Pentagon data show that more than 1.6 million military personnel have deployed to the conflicts since the war in Afghanistan began in late 2001.
The RAND study put the percentage of those suffering from PTSD and depression at 18.5 percent, thus calculating that approximately 300,000 current and former service members were suffering from those problems at the time of its survey.

Some 320,000 service members, about 19 percent, according to RAND, may have experienced a possible traumatic brain injury while in a war zone. These injuries have ranged from concussions to severe head wounds. Julian Barnes, in the Los Angeles Times, pointed out in his April 18 story that “a chief difference is that in Iraq and Afghanistan all service members, not just combat infantry, are exposed to roadside bombs and civilian deaths. That distinction subjects a much wider swath of military personnel to the stresses of war.”

“We call it '360-365' combat,” Paul Sullivan, executive director of Veterans for Common Sense, told Barnes. “What that means is veterans are completely surrounded by combat for one year. Nearly all of our soldiers are under fire, or being subjected to mortar rounds or roadside bombs, or witnessing the deaths of civilians or fellow soldiers.”

The RAND report says that about 7 percent suffered from both a probable brain injury and current PTSD or major depression. Only 43 percent reported ever being evaluated by a physician for their head injuries. Only 53 percent of service members with PTSD or depression sought help over the past year. Various reasons were offered to RAND researchers for not getting help, including worries about the side effects of medication, reliance on family and friends to help them with the problem and fear that seeking care might damage career prospects.

The news stories tended to lay stress on the fact that almost half of those with brain injuries or suffering from depression and stress disorder were seeking help. Missing amid the brief stir aroused by this devastating report was any adequate editorial commentary, or inquiry to political candidates, about the obvious fact that every month that U.S. troops remain deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan adds inexorably to this terrible total. But discretion is the order of the day, exemplified by Dr. Ira Katz, top mental health official at the Department of Veterans Affairs, who, as CBS News reported on Feb. 13, e-mailed an aide, “Shh! Our suicide prevention coordinators are identifying about 1000 suicide attempts per month among veterans we see in our medical facilities.”

Here's how the figures add up, just for Americans. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have thus far produced 300,000 psychological casualties, 320,000 brain injury casualties, plus 35,000 (probably understated) officially reported “normal” casualties. This adds up to 655,000 US casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan, an average of just under 101,000 Americans killed or wounded every year since the wars began. If the idea of 101,000 casualties for every extra year in Iraq and Afghanistan gets out and infects the voting public, imagine the effect on the currently torpid national debate over leaving in five years versus 15 years!

COPYRIGHT 2008 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.

[Radar Chief]

Does it matter?
Do we owe less to veterans that didn't fight in Iraq?

The suicide rate among military veterans is higher than the rest of our population, war or no. If this number represents an escalation of that already higher number it’s news. If it doesn’t, then this is sensationalizing for the sake of news.
That seems pretty relevant to me.

[BucEyedPea]

The suicide rate among military veterans is higher than the rest of our population, war or no. If this number represents an escalation of that already higher number it’s news. If it doesn’t, then this is sensationalizing for the sake of news.
So what if it's the same for other wars. It still goes to show that war doesn't just maim and kill the body but affects the minds of men. Don't forget we've had to resort to recruiting gang members and criminals to meet our needs too.

I've witnessed some of this damage to their minds in some of my classes. Some can barely function, by that I mean literally one I witnessed needed his hands held while using a keyboard he'd shake so bad. He was also a mental wreck.

Like the above article said:
Those violent episodes are just part of bringing the war home.

The RAND report says that about 7 percent suffered from both a probable brain injury and current PTSD or major depression.

Even I had an uncle who fought in DaNang and came home so depressed couldn't come out of his room for 6 months because he preferred looking at pics of his buddies body parts blown up. Really damaged him and he became a drug addict.

[BucEyedPea]

Wait a minute...Does this specifically say "Iraq war veterans" or just veterans?

Is it referring to any vet (in other words, anyone who ever served in any branch of the military)? What is that number? 25,000,000? How many are old, in poor health seniors? Os this really anything but a bunch of PMSNBC bullshit?

Well, seems to be the be an article written in the context of current events.
So it's pretty logical that it's this war or it'd be irrelevant news if on WWII vets or some such.

[Radar Chief]

So what if it's the same for other wars.

I didn’t post “if it’s the same as other wars”. :rolleyes:

[BucEyedPea]

So what if you didn't chose those words. You said the following:


The suicide rate among military veterans is higher than the rest of our population, war or no.

I simply responded to the war aspect.

[Radar Chief]

So what if you didn't chose those words. You said the following:

Right, cause, like, it’s never really mattered what someone posted, just what you want to believe they intended.

The suicide rate among military veterans is higher than the rest of our population, war or no.

For the people with a functioning brain reading this, “war or no” means whether there is a war going on or not.
Didn’t think it was that hard to figure out, but I should've learned by now to never underestimated the willful ignorance of our NeoCon Demagogue.

[BucEyedPea]

My aren't we grouchy today. Feeling a bit unstable?


FYI the original article posted "war veterans" at some point. If you want to claim superiority in posting to what was posted. The context was largely about war. And for the part that isn't, what does that say about those enlisting? Doesn't make them look good now does it? Your argument, not mine. Or are you trying to demonstrate the point by example?

[Radar Chief]

My aren't we grouchy today. Feeling a bit unstable?


FYI the original article posted "war veterans" at some point. If you want to claim superiority in posting to what was posted. The context was largely about war. And for the part that isn't, what does that say about those enlisting? Doesn't make them look good now does it? Your argument, not mine. Or are you trying to demonstrate the point by example?

:LOL: If you don’t have an answer or an ability to address what was posted, it’s ok to, like, not respond.
But keep crying about “stability”, it’s really helping your case here. :thumb:

[banyon]

We need a "war" icon or an "iraq" icon.

[Radar Chief]

Here, BEP, since I realize it’s entirely possible you don’t know what posting relevant information in response looks like, I’ll try to help you out.
If you’d have posted something like this:

Published on Friday, March 26, 2004 by the New York Times
U.S. Army Finds Its Suicide Rate in Iraq Is Higher Than for Other G.I.'s
by Eric Schmitt

WASHINGTON — A major Army study has found that suicide-prevention teams were left behind when units left their home bases to go to war in Iraq, mental-health workers felt untrained to treat combat stress, and many soldiers seeking help for depression and emotional problems faced significant hurdles getting care.The study, the first conducted in a combat zone, also determined that the suicide rate of soldiers in Iraq and Kuwait last year was much higher than in the Army overall, but lower than in comparable American civilian groups.In one startling finding, in the survey of 756 soldiers late last summer, 52 percent of them said their personal morale was low or very low, and 72 percent said their whole unit's morale was that bad. Most of those surveyed had been in combat.


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0326-06.htm

Instead of telling us about your cousins, uncles, friends neighbor, you’d have moved the conversation down the road. Granted this information is old, but it's at least relevent to what I posted.
Responding with information like that is what, at least IMO, being a good board member is.

[BucEyedPea]

Hey Radarfascist, I'll add any additional points to any discussion I want instead of being pinned in by your speech guidelines.

[Radar Chief]

Hey Radarfascist, I'll add any additional points to any discussion I want instead of being pinned in by your speech guidelines.

And I'll still point and laugh. :thumb:

[BucEyedPea]

.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=77693&stc=1&d=1208610978

[Radar Chief]

.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=77693&stc=1&d=1208610978

:LOL:

[Extra Point]

In the last 40 years, quite a number of the opposition has fought without uniforms. That your life can be taken by a random, unidentifiable, human being, can certainly alter your good-guy/bad-guy perception, attitude and outlook-- during and after one's tour of duty.

I'm amazed that my daughter's boyfriend has as good an outlook as he does, since his stretch in Iraq.

[Adept Havelock]

LMAO

RC, that's one of your best attached smileys EVAH!

Here's another you might appreciate.

[Radar Chief]

LMAO

RC, that's one of your best attached smileys EVAH!

Here's another you might appreciate.


:thumb: That’s a good one.
I thought about posting this one, but considering the topic it might be considered a bit tasteless. Even for me.

[Radar Chief]

:thumb: That’s a good one.
I thought about posting this one, but considering the topic it might be considered a bit tasteless. Even for me.

Posting something like that will get you this.

[Radar Chief]

Posting something like that will get you this.


But in the end it's all good.