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View Full Version : Chiefs ESPN: 2 offers on table for #5... Ravens for Ryan one of them.


jAZ
04-26-2008, 09:09 AM
Said they *won't* trade up, an most likely will have more offers to trade down.

I bet we trade down, watching this.

ILChief
04-26-2008, 09:11 AM
I hope we trade down a few picks and get Clady/Albert. I still think we'll take Long at #5 if he falls to there but I think STL will take him #2.

eazyb81
04-26-2008, 09:13 AM
I don't see how Baltimore has the ammo to trade up, considering they don't have a 2nd or 3rd that they can trade (3rd is comp pick).

nychief
04-26-2008, 09:14 AM
if we trade down I want to go OL/CB in round 1.

pr_capone
04-26-2008, 09:16 AM
I don't see how Baltimore has the ammo to trade up, considering they don't have a 2nd or 3rd that they can trade (3rd is comp pick).

#1 this year and #1 next?

eazyb81
04-26-2008, 09:16 AM
#1 this year and #1 next?

to move up 3 spots? Would you do that?

doomy3
04-26-2008, 09:18 AM
#1 this year and #1 next?


That's gotta be what they are looking to do

pr_capone
04-26-2008, 09:18 AM
to move up 3 spots? Would you do that?

Ack.... typo.

#1 this year and #2 next.

If they want him bad enough then they have to pay.

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:19 AM
to move up 3 spots? Would you do that?

I wouldn't, but if Baltimore wants to move into the 5 spot to take Ryan, if I'm the Chiefs, I don't accept anything less.

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:20 AM
Ack.... typo.

#1 this year and #2 next.

If they want him bad enough then they have to pay.

You were right teh first time.

A #2 next year isn't enough.

Baltimore still has a solid D, and if Ryan can just manage games in his rookie year, that #1 pick could very well be in the 20s.

pr_capone
04-26-2008, 09:21 AM
You were right teh first time.

A #2 next year isn't enough.

Baltimore still has a solid D, and if Ryan can just manage games in his rookie year, that #2 pick could very well be in the 20s.

Too true.

1 and 1 it is!

:evil:

eazyb81
04-26-2008, 09:22 AM
I wouldn't, but if Baltimore wants to move into the 5 spot to take Ryan, if I'm the Chiefs, I don't accept anything less.

The value there isn't even close. There's no way they would be stupid enough to do that.

A 2nd next year might work though.

Mosbonian
04-26-2008, 09:22 AM
What defensive player on the Ravens could we ask for in addition to their #1 pick?

mmaddog
*******

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:24 AM
The value there isn't even close. There's no way they would be stupid enough to do that.

A 2nd next year might work though.

If I'm trading out of the top 5, you better come with a hell of an offer, and next year's 2 ain't gonna do it.

pr_capone
04-26-2008, 09:27 AM
What defensive player on the Ravens could we ask for in addition to their #1 pick?

mmaddog
*******

Suggs.... I would demand Suggs.

Then trade Edwards for whatever we can get for him.

eazyb81
04-26-2008, 09:27 AM
If I'm trading out of the top 5, you better come with a hell of an offer, and next year's 2 ain't gonna do it.

There's still a value chart that you use, you don't just make it up as you go along.

Giving up a 1st round pick to move up 3 spots is not even close to even value, but if you want to keep saying it will happen then by my guest.

pr_capone
04-26-2008, 09:29 AM
There's still a value chart that you use, you don't just make it up as you go along.

Giving up a 1st round pick to move up 3 spots is not even close to even value, but if you want to keep saying it will happen then by my guest.

NO traded their entire draft for Ricky Williams.... it could happen again! :D

big nasty kcnut
04-26-2008, 09:29 AM
We need to keep no 5 and get a impact player then get a ol then jordy nelson the bpa the way filling holes

CanadaKC
04-26-2008, 09:31 AM
Are you Kansas homers going to be ok when Jordy Nelson is taken by another team?

pr_capone
04-26-2008, 09:33 AM
Are you Kansas homers going to be ok when Jordy Nelson is taken by another team?

Despite the fact that I am a KSU fan, I would want Jordy regardless. The guy simply does not drop passes and he has pretty good speed.

He would make a good #2.

The thought of Webb at #2 frightens me.

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:35 AM
There's still a value chart that you use, you don't just make it up as you go along.

Giving up a 1st round pick to move up 3 spots is not even close to even value, but if you want to keep saying it will happen then by my guest.

I am simply not going to pass up on Ellis, Gholston or even Ryan for a #2 next year.

That value chart is a guide.

But I have all the leverage.

If Baltimore wants to move up, they are going to have to pay, cause I am completely happy with my options right where I'm at.

kstater
04-26-2008, 09:35 AM
Are you Kansas homers going to be ok when Jordy Nelson is taken by another team?

I can't speak for the KU guys, but I'll be tickled if he's selected anywhere in the second round.

pr_capone
04-26-2008, 09:36 AM
I am simply not going to pass up on Ellis, Gholston or even Ryan for a #2 next year.

That value chart is a guide.

But I have all the leverage.

If Baltimore wants to move up, they are going to have to pay, cause I am completely happy with my options right where I'm at.

Agreed. Now... if they want to throw Suggs at us and swap 1sts.... I would gladly send them a 5th or 6th to make it worth their while. :D

Think we can get at least a 3rd or 4th for Donnie?

dirk digler
04-26-2008, 09:36 AM
If I'm trading out of the top 5, you better come with a hell of an offer, and next year's 2 ain't gonna do it.

Yep. From everything I have read and CP's quotes about the Allen trade they are wanting picks for this year not next.

Also it appears the Chiefs are playing the Pats and Jets off each other in hopes of trading down a couple of spots

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2008, 09:41 AM
If Edwards is all about BPA, then he would stay in the top 5. If KC trades down then it's a King Carl move plain and simple

Fish
04-26-2008, 09:44 AM
Suggs.... I would demand Suggs.

Then trade Edwards for whatever we can get for him.

I've been a huge fan of Suggs since he played at Arizona State. I really wanted to draft him, and would be thrilled to have him as compensation....

Guy is an animal....

dirk digler
04-26-2008, 09:46 AM
If Edwards is all about BPA, then he would stay in the top 5. If KC trades down then it's a King Carl move plain and simple

Not if they can get a couple of extra picks

the Chiefs trading out of the No. 5 spot with the Patriots, allowing the Pats to come up to No. 5 and nab Vernon Gholston before the Jets (http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/#) can get him at No. 6. The Chiefs then would take Matt Ryan at No. 7. This is precisely what we’ve heard could be happening. The Chiefs are in a position to yank the chains of the Pats and the Jets in an effort to get the Pats to come up and pick off the guy whom the Jets covet, or to persuade the Jets to move up a spot to block the Pats from getting there.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2008, 09:47 AM
Not if they can get a couple of extra picks


They already have 13!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's about quality, not quantity

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:48 AM
Agreed. Now... if they want to throw Suggs at us and swap 1sts.... I would gladly send them a 5th or 6th to make it worth their while. :D

Think we can get at least a 3rd or 4th for Donnie?

A 34 year old LB who, I believe, only appeared in one Pro Bowl, as an alterante?

I'd be happy if we could get a 6th for him.

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:49 AM
If Edwards is all about BPA, then he would stay in the top 5. If KC trades down then it's a King Carl move plain and simple

If you could trade down to #7 and still get Ellis, would you?

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:51 AM
They already have 13!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's about quality, not quantity

Actually, this year for the Chiefs, it's about both.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2008, 09:51 AM
If you could trade down to #7 and still get Ellis, would you?

Not sure then the possibility that the Bengals will leapfrog ahead of us comes into this

DaKCMan AP
04-26-2008, 09:52 AM
There's still a value chart that you use, you don't just make it up as you go along.

Giving up a 1st round pick to move up 3 spots is not even close to even value, but if you want to keep saying it will happen then by my guest.

A 1st round pick next year is equivalent to a 2nd round pick this year. Thus the #8 pick and a 1st rounder next year that falls between 27-32 is equal value to the #5 pick this year.

dirk digler
04-26-2008, 09:52 AM
Actually, this year for the Chiefs, it's about both.

Yep.

If they could get 15 picks they probably good get 7-8 starters out of this draft alone

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2008, 09:52 AM
If you could trade down to #7 and still get Ellis, would you?


that's why I said 13 with an exclamation

rad
04-26-2008, 09:53 AM
They already have 13!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's about quality, not quantity

Not really. The more picks, the better chance we have drafting an adequate football player by accident.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2008, 09:54 AM
Not really. The more picks, the better chance we have drafting an adequate football player by accident.



thus the thinking, of Peterson the last 18 years. Let's find those bargains!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sully
04-26-2008, 09:56 AM
I'm tired of the trade down talk. We are in good spots... pick the ****ing guys!!!!!

If you can get another #1 next year, think about that one... but for God's sake, enough with this trading down just to get teh mediocre player you want. Pick the better player at the position you are at!!!

eazyb81
04-26-2008, 09:56 AM
A 1st round pick next year is equivalent to a 2nd round pick this year. Thus the #8 pick and a 1st rounder next year that falls between 27-32 is equal value to the #5 pick this year.

The difference between 5 and 8 is 300 points. No NFL GM, especially Ozzie Newsome, is going to give up a 1st round pick next year to fill a 300 point void.

Listen, I hope I'm wrong, but I think you guys are smoking something this morning if you think Baltimore is giving up next year's 1st to move up 3 spots.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2008, 09:58 AM
I'm tired of the trade down talk. We are in good spots... pick the ****ing guys!!!!!

If you can get another #1 next year, think about that one... but for God's sake, enough with this trading down just to get teh mediocre player you want. Pick the better player at the position you are at!!!


precisely

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:59 AM
Not sure then the possibility that the Bengals will leapfrog ahead of us comes into this

Yeah, it's a gamble.

What I'm really hoping for is that there is some truth to the rumor that both the Jets and Pats are jockying for that 5 spot.

I'd take the best deal the Jets have to offer, and take Ellis at 6.

milkman
04-26-2008, 10:01 AM
The difference between 5 and 8 is 300 points. No NFL GM, especially Ozzie Newsome, is going to give up a 1st round pick next year to fill a 300 point void.

Listen, I hope I'm wrong, but I think you guys are smoking something this morning if you think Baltimore is giving up next year's 1st to move up 3 spots.

I didn't say I thought that Baltimore would do it.

I said that's the only way I move down, cause they otherwise simply don't have enough to get me to move.

patteeu
04-26-2008, 10:02 AM
The value there isn't even close. There's no way they would be stupid enough to do that.

A 2nd next year might work though.

If a 1st and a 1st is more than they are willing to pay, there's always the chance that they could ask for a late round pick from this year in return. For example, they offer their 2008 1st + their 2009 1st for our 2008 1st and one of our 2008 5th or 6th.

I'm not saying I think this would happen or that it would be the right value, I'm just saying there are plenty of creative ways to adjust the terms of a trade.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2008, 10:02 AM
I'd take the best deal the Jets have to offer, and take Ellis at 6.


That's the only deal I'd take on draft day

tmax63
04-26-2008, 10:02 AM
Well if the Ravens are door #1 then who is door #2 Bob? All talk in this thread is Ravens so far but I'm curious who the other suitor is.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2008, 10:03 AM
All talk in this thread is Ravens so far but I'm curious who the other suitor is.


Jets and Patriots

patteeu
04-26-2008, 10:04 AM
Are you Kansas homers going to be ok when Jordy Nelson is taken by another team?

Jordy Nelson is from K-State. It's not clear to me whether you mean Kansas in general or Kansas as in KU.

I'm an MU fan, but I'd be fine with Jordy Nelson in Chiefs red. Just say no to Talib (from KU) though.

eazyb81
04-26-2008, 10:04 AM
Well if the Ravens are door #1 then who is door #2 Bob? All talk in this thread is Ravens so far but I'm curious who the other suitor is.

It has to be Cincy or NO for Ellis.

Mosbonian
04-26-2008, 10:14 AM
Just say no to Talib (from KU) though.

I saw that the USA Today had us taking Talib with the #17 pick.....I took the paper and burned it, and cancelled my subscription in protest.

mmaddog
*******

DaKCMan AP
04-26-2008, 10:18 AM
The difference between 5 and 8 is 300 points. No NFL GM, especially Ozzie Newsome, is going to give up a 1st round pick next year to fill a 300 point void.

Listen, I hope I'm wrong, but I think you guys are smoking something this morning if you think Baltimore is giving up next year's 1st to move up 3 spots.

It depends how much they want that player. The #8 and any 3rd round pick (which a 2nd next year is worth a 3rd this year) is not equal value to the #5 overall pick.

Chris Meck
04-26-2008, 10:53 AM
I think perspectives are getting a bit skewed.

NONE of these guys projected to go in the first round are 'mediocre'. These are the premier athletes on planet earth. Be wary of character issues, and you should get a real good football player.

Trading down from #5 to say...#8 could allow you to get the guy you NEED at a value spot. Staying put could put you in a position of not really being able to get maximum impact. To say that a guy going #8 overall in the NFL freakin' draft is a 'mediocre' talent is absurd.

I'm not neccessarily saying we SHOULD trade down, I'm just saying that people are getting way off base in their idea of what is 'elite' and what is 'mediocre' in the draft, talent-wise.

And what if-just a what if-After all of the film study, Herm has decided that Ryan Clady is Willie Roaf incarnate? What if the bad game against Hawaii was due to a groin pull and it turns out that Clady played anyway? Do you pull the trigger at #5? or do you move down to #8, pick up another player in return, and still get YOUR guy? That's just a hypothetical, but I'm just saying that there's a lot more to consider than the idea that someone slotted 8th or 9th is mediocre and someone slotted 4th or 5th is 'elite'.

DJ's left nut
04-26-2008, 11:09 AM
precisely

For a team with as many holes as ours, when there is likely not going to be a clear-cut BPA, this is wrong-headed.

If we can get the Pats, Jets, Ravens and Saints jockeying for the #5 and we end up getting above 'chart' value, it's a no brainer to deal it. We'll still have a guy that we really REALLY need available to us wherever we end up, be that Rivers, Ryan, Clady or Ellis.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2008, 11:11 AM
For a team with as many holes as ours, when there is likely not going to be a clear-cut BPA, this is wrong-headed.

.


you are incorrect I'd rather have an impact player instead of a solid starter which KC has very very few because few of.

DJ's left nut
04-26-2008, 11:20 AM
you are incorrect I'd rather have an impact player instead of a solid starter which KC has very very few because few of.

Again, you're assuming there's an impact player. I simply disagree with you. I think there is very little difference between Gholston, Ellis, Rivers, and the rest of the guys the Chiefs would be considering in terms of value. Gholston is the most 'boom or bust' of them all to be sure, but that's not what I'd be looking for here. The Chiefs absolutely cannot afford to miss with this pick, it'd set the franchise back 5 years (see: Sims, Ryan). While Gholston may end up being the highest ceiling guy, he's also the most likely to bust out, IMO (bit of a tweener, will need the right scheme, arguable that we don't run it).

Gholston's simply not a sure enough bet for me to not only take the boom/bust gamble on him, but to pass up the opportunity to add an additional 1st day pick (be it this year or next) just so I could take him over one of the others.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2008, 11:22 AM
Gholston's simply not a sure enough bet for me to not only take the boom/bust gamble on him, but to pass up the opportunity to add an additional 1st day pick (be it this year or next) just so I could take him over one of the others.


How about Ellis? Herm was gushing about him at the Senior Bowl saying "if Jake Long and Sedrick Ellis are both on the board we'd have a fight in our hands to who we pick"

Coach
04-26-2008, 11:25 AM
God, I can't wait till the damn thing starts so that it can get over with it.

DJ's left nut
04-26-2008, 11:27 AM
How about Ellis? Herm was gushing about him at the Senior Bowl saying "if Jake Long and Sedrick Ellis are both on the board we'd have a fight in our hands to who we pick"

Replace Ellis with Dorsey and you have a debate, IMO. I agree with the folks in the other thread, if Dorsey is there, you grab him.

But there's a shot that Ellis still slips to us at 7 (or 8,9,10...wherever we end up). I don't think Ellis is that much more likely than say Rivers or Clady to be a true 'impact' player to justify passing on the pick. DT's are just so freakin' tricky in the draft, visions of Jonathan Sullivan, Ryan Sims, or any of the annual top 10 busted DTs just won't go away. There seems to be one every season. I'm comfortable that it won't be Dorsey...not so much with Ellis.

Adept Havelock
04-26-2008, 11:53 AM
They already have 13!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's about quality, not quantity

"Quantity has a Quality all it's own".

:p

If Dorsey is there, and J. Brown's medical passes muster, I'd have a hard time passing on NO's trade.