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View Full Version : Chiefs Chiefs should have traded down


B_Ambuehl
04-26-2008, 09:31 PM
Dorsey is probably gonna be a good football player but the gap between him and Tank/Boone is less than the gap between Jared Allen and any DE on the roster. You wanna see what the current best case scenario is for our D line look at Jacksonville. They basically traded away their entire draft trying to get a decent pass rusher.

Chiefs at the very minimum (despite whatever BS Gretz is trying to sell) could've picked up a 2nd rounder for trading down 5 spots. They would've still been able to get Albert and Flowers and could've used either the #10 pick or 2nd round pick on a DE.

beach tribe
04-26-2008, 09:34 PM
WRONG. Dorsey is a rare talent. It has nothing to do with JA. It has to do with Dorsey, and the other players in the draft.

He is an "Elite player. You do not pass on them.

Deberg_1990
04-26-2008, 09:35 PM
Chiefs Run D is still pretty awful. They need a run stuffer like Dorsey up the gut. Gettin Dorsey was huge.

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:35 PM
There are dumbasses born every ****ing minute, I swear!

BigChiefFan
04-26-2008, 09:35 PM
Dorsey is the best DT prospect in a decade-why on Earth would we trade down? We were given a gift and you want to take a shit on it? No thank you.

Bowser
04-26-2008, 09:35 PM
Whatever. Dorsey is an impact player, ready to play the NFL game right now. When I hear Kirk Herbstreit say he's THE BEST defensive tackle he's seen play in high profile college games in thirteen years, I think I'll take that, and feel pretty good about it.

Pic
04-26-2008, 09:36 PM
Dorsey is probably gonna be a good football player but the gap between him and Tank/Boone is less than the gap between Jared Allen and any DE on the roster. You wanna see what the current best case scenario is for our D line look at Jacksonville. They basically traded away their entire draft trying to get a decent pass rusher.

Chiefs at the very minimum (despite whatever BS Gretz is trying to sell) could've picked up a 2nd rounder for trading down 5 spots. They would've still been able to get Albert and Flowers and could've used either the #10 pick or 2nd round pick on a DE.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/Picturesspeaklouder/thumbsdown.jpg

Reerun_KC
04-26-2008, 09:36 PM
WRONG. Dorsey is a rare talent. It has nothing to do with JA. It has to do with Dorsey, and the other players in the draft.

He is an "Elite player. You do not pass on them.
:clap: The Tribe has spoken!

kcfanXIII
04-26-2008, 09:37 PM
WRONG. Dorsey is a rare talent. It has nothing to do with JA. It has to do with Dorsey, and the other players in the draft.

He is an "Elite player. You do not pass on them.


however, you do piss them off so they demand to be traded away....

i'm just sayin, if you run things like the chiefs thats the way to do it.

Reerun_KC
04-26-2008, 09:37 PM
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/Picturesspeaklouder/thumbsdown.jpg


Your sig is just plain wrong....

ChiefaRoo
04-26-2008, 09:37 PM
no, you sir are mistaken and are likely being purposely obtuse for the sake of arguement.

Pic
04-26-2008, 09:37 PM
There are dumbasses born every ****ing minute, I swear!

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/Picturesspeaklouder/thumbs.jpg

kcfanXIII
04-26-2008, 09:39 PM
no really, isn't a pro HERL sig a banable offense?

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:42 PM
Whatever. Dorsey is an impact player, ready to play the NFL game right now. When I hear Kirk Herbstreit say he's THE BEST defensive tackle he's seen play in high profile college games in thirteen years, I think I'll take that, and feel pretty good about it.

Just to be clear, I was talking about Ambhuel, not you, in case you misunderstood.

getting Dorsey today, I felt like I just won the lottery.

HemiEd
04-26-2008, 09:42 PM
Chiefs Run D is still pretty awful. They need a run stuffer like Dorsey up the gut. Gettin Dorsey was huge.Plus Dorsey should apply pressure up the middle, like this team has needed for a hell of long time.

We all know, they have spent enough draft picks in the past trying to find the one to do it.

Fish
04-26-2008, 09:44 PM
This place never disappoints......

markk
04-26-2008, 09:46 PM
jared allen is in the past. he's gone. get over it. he's no more a part of this team's decision making than neil smith is. all we have are holes and draft picks with which to fill them. and may i say to you that i think they are doing a darn good job this year so far.

Mr. Arrowhead
04-26-2008, 09:47 PM
mark my words Glenn Dorsey impact on this D line will make people forget about Jared Allen

milkman
04-26-2008, 09:48 PM
mark my words Glenn Dorsey impact on this D line will make people forget about Jared Allen

Who?

markk
04-26-2008, 09:48 PM
dorsey might be one of those guys who doesn't make a lot of sacks but does make tackles and is a disruptive influence in ways that wont show up in the box score. i think he is going to make tamba hali and the rest of the dline better players by causing chaos in the middle.

the Talking Can
04-26-2008, 09:49 PM
jesus christ we draft the #1 defensive player in the ****ing draft and people are still complaining.....

jjchieffan
04-26-2008, 09:50 PM
Think about the push up the middle that Dorsey and Boone are going to create. That will help free up Hali and Turk on the ends. We definitely should have a dominate defensive line again next year.

Bowser
04-26-2008, 09:52 PM
Just to be clear, I was talking about Ambhuel, not you, in case you misunderstood.

getting Dorsey today, I felt like I just won the lottery.

No, we're in agreement that Ambuehl is letting his inner dummah out to play on this one.

Lottery, indeed. It will be fun to watch Dorsey push Weigmann around this year. :)

Tits McGee
04-26-2008, 09:57 PM
dorsey might be one of those guys who doesn't make a lot of sacks but does make tackles and is a disruptive influence in ways that wont show up in the box score. i think he is going to make tamba hali and the rest of the dline better players by causing chaos in the middle.

Hell yes, Our LB's just got freed up to blitz and stunt. Dorsey is going to draw a lot attention and double teams.

Hoover
04-26-2008, 09:59 PM
This thread proves that some people always think the grass is greener on the other side. The "what ifs" don't come close to the "what was" in this years draft.

L.A. Chieffan
04-26-2008, 10:00 PM
Had it been for the original trade that was mentioned, Saints 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, AND next years 1st rounder I agree. Thats a better deal than we got for Allen.

Tits McGee
04-26-2008, 10:03 PM
Had it been for the original trade that was mentioned, Saints 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, AND next years 1st rounder I agree. Thats a better deal than we got for Allen.

That was never the deal. The first deal supposedly had LT Brown plus multiple picks.

markk
04-26-2008, 10:03 PM
Hell yes, Our LB's just got freed up to blitz and stunt. Dorsey is going to draw a lot attention and double teams.

that is what we need him to do... be like that thing in the middle of the washing machine just churning everything around it

Ultra Peanut
04-26-2008, 10:04 PM
Oh.

My.

God.

markk
04-26-2008, 10:04 PM
Had it been for the original trade that was mentioned, Saints 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, AND next years 1st rounder I agree. Thats a better deal than we got for Allen.

carl and kucharich both denied that on 810. said they would have taken that deal but the offer wasnt that good.

B_Ambuehl
04-26-2008, 10:22 PM
I love Dorsey too and watched LSU football for the sole purpose of watching him play. What I don't like is the sudden change in philosophy. The Chiefs have operated the last several months with the mindset that getting a team full of quality starters is better then having a few superstars. Thus the emphasis on acquiring more picks. But then when you have the opportunity to pick up a couple of more high picks you change philosophies on the fly and take the superstar rather than a couple of more starters. Chiefs say they didn't want to pay Allen. Glenn Dorsey's contract guarantees won't be much less than what Jared Allen wanted and he has yet to play a snap in the NFL.

From what I understand Herm was wanting to trade down. Herm gets plenty of flak for his coaching decisions but I've never heard anything negative said about his draft decisions. I'm with him on this one.

Ultra Peanut
04-26-2008, 10:22 PM
Think about the push up the middle that Dorsey and Boone are going to create. That will help free up Hali and Turk on the ends. We definitely should have a dominate defensive line again next year.Juggernaut and Thorsey. Hells yeah.

Brock
04-26-2008, 10:26 PM
Stupid people abound.

xbarretx
04-26-2008, 10:28 PM
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/Picturesspeaklouder/thumbsdown.jpg

:clap:

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2008, 10:29 PM
There are dumbasses born every ****ing minute, I swear!

No, this dumbf*ck's been around for 25+ years.

He's just a dumbf*ck.

Ultra Peanut
04-26-2008, 10:34 PM
I love Dorsey too and watched LSU football for the sole purpose of watching him play. What I don't like is the sudden change in philosophy. The Chiefs have operated the last several months with the mindset that getting a team full of quality starters is better then having a few superstars. Thus the emphasis on acquiring more picks. We have 11 other picks (12 at the time of the selection) besides Dorsey. Stop being retarded.

B_Ambuehl
04-26-2008, 10:37 PM
I'll gladly eat crow if this turns out not to be the case, but I predict a LOT of people are gonna be complaining about our totally nonexistent outside pass rush next year. If it turns out the trade offer from New Orleans did include their '09 first rounder that pick is gonna be looking really good this time next year because chances are the Chiefs are gonna have to take a QB with their 1st.

Brock
04-26-2008, 10:40 PM
Who cares what people are going to complain about? Gholston might have been as good a pick as Dorsey, but I don't know how in the hell people can complain about what the Chiefs got today.

Fairplay
04-26-2008, 10:57 PM
Oh yeah!
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PJMIHv5svfE&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PJMIHv5svfE&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

DaneMcCloud
04-26-2008, 11:00 PM
Who cares what people are going to complain about? Gholston might have been as good a pick as Dorsey, but I don't know how in the hell people can complain about what the Chiefs got today.

Because they're unhappy Chiefs fans that listen to idiots like Jack Harry and Kevin Kietzman.

Let's all be unhappy, together. :(

Dumbasses

ClevelandBronco
04-26-2008, 11:01 PM
Dorsey is worth seeing. Unless the Chiefs were offered an well established player I can't imagine why they'd want to trade the opportunity to develop this guy.

BigChiefFan
04-26-2008, 11:03 PM
I'll gladly eat crow if this turns out not to be the case, but I predict a LOT of people are gonna be complaining about our totally nonexistent outside pass rush next year. If it turns out the trade offer from New Orleans did include their '09 first rounder that pick is gonna be looking really good this time next year because chances are the Chiefs are gonna have to take a QB with their 1st.I think most already know we need to upgrade the pass rush. Rome wasn't built in a day. The team went with a player that has HOF potential. That's a Hell of a puzzle piece-not the complete puzzle. What do you expect one player who plays eight different positions?
Dorsey has elite potential, let's not write him before he even takes the field, okay?

Dayze
04-26-2008, 11:03 PM
Because they're unhappy Chiefs fans that listen to idiots like Jack Harry and Kevin Kietzman.

Let's all be unhappy, together. :(

Dumbasses

no shit! Jeez...possibly the best 1s day in who knows how long and there is second-guessing / johnny come-latelys etc.

I seriously question the football intelect of anyone who is upset in how this turned out.

Can't wait to hear KK second guess everything......

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2008, 11:05 PM
It's hard to believe that we got the 2nd highest (many will say THE highest) talent in this draft, and people complain about it. OMGZ!!!1!!! He wore brases win he wuz a kid!!!11!!!!!

Mr. Flopnuts
04-26-2008, 11:06 PM
Dorsey is worth seeing. Unless the Chiefs were offered an well established player I can't imagine why they'd want to trade the opportunity to develop this guy.

How did you feel about your draft pick? Clady was highly touted.

Pic
04-26-2008, 11:08 PM
Your sig is just plain wrong....

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/Picturesspeaklouder/huh-1.jpg

ClevelandBronco
04-26-2008, 11:09 PM
How did you feel about your draft pick? Clady was highly touted.

I'm not excited. He was the guy I expected.

How 'bout that 13 Wonderlic for a LT, eh?

buddha
04-26-2008, 11:09 PM
I think the one thing we can agree on is that we are all dumber for having read the anti-Dorsey posts in this thread. Mind numbing. We didn't have much of a pass rush WITH the great Jared Allen, did we? You have to be able to stop the run first at any level of football, and a great DT can help make that happen. Trading down away from Dorsey would likely bring MORE guys like Turk McBride (may turn out to decent in time, but will never be great). You need great players...at least a few. Dorsey changes games. You don't trade away from players like that. You pick them and you sign them. KC has plenty of picks.

keg in kc
04-26-2008, 11:14 PM
The Jared Allen trade is looking like the best thing that's happened to this franchise in 20 years.

Pic
04-26-2008, 11:16 PM
The Jared Allen trade is looking like the best thing that's happened to this franchise in 20 years.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn211/Picturesspeaklouder/thumbs1.jpg

HolmeZz
04-26-2008, 11:17 PM
Dorsey is probably gonna be a good football player but the gap between him and Tank/Boone is less than the gap between Jared Allen and any DE on the roster.

Uh, no.

Dorsey's an elite DT. Our next best DT is mediocre at best.

Allen was an elite DE. We have another pretty good DE in Hali.

PastorMikH
04-26-2008, 11:21 PM
I gotta say, I'm stoked about Dorsey. I never considered him 'cause listening to all the pre-draft talk it was a sure thing that he would be gone before we picked.

When is the last time KC had a stud DT? Been a decade or better. If Dorsey developes like he should, he will generate a lot of sacks - either by personally disrupting the middle or drawing double teams and freeing up the ends to sack.



Also, I heard one of the analyst on NFL network mention that with 13 picks, KC will have an interesting time signing all of them with the rookie $ pool alotment. If this is true, trading down and getting another high pick would probably make it about impossible to sign everyone.

keg in kc
04-26-2008, 11:25 PM
I gotta say, I'm stoked about Dorsey. I never considered him 'cause listening to all the pre-draft talk it was a sure thing that he would be gone before we picked. I think almost everybody assumed that. I didn't even consider it to be a realistic option.Also, I heard one of the analyst on NFL network mention that with 13 picks, KC will have an interesting time signing all of them with the rookie $ pool alotment. If this is true, trading down and getting another high pick would probably make it about impossible to sign everyone.Our rookie pool will be allotted after the draft ends, based on the number and round of the picks we make, so that shouldn't be a major problem. We should have a fair amount to work with...

Thig Lyfe
04-26-2008, 11:35 PM
Dorsey is probably gonna be a good football player but the gap between him and Tank/Boone is less than the gap between Jared Allen and any DE on the roster. You wanna see what the current best case scenario is for our D line look at Jacksonville. They basically traded away their entire draft trying to get a decent pass rusher.

Chiefs at the very minimum (despite whatever BS Gretz is trying to sell) could've picked up a 2nd rounder for trading down 5 spots. They would've still been able to get Albert and Flowers and could've used either the #10 pick or 2nd round pick on a DE.

Eat my poo.

OmahaChief
04-26-2008, 11:38 PM
Dorsey is probably gonna be a good football player but the gap between him and Tank/Boone is less than the gap between Jared Allen and any DE on the roster. You wanna see what the current best case scenario is for our D line look at Jacksonville. They basically traded away their entire draft trying to get a decent pass rusher.

Chiefs at the very minimum (despite whatever BS Gretz is trying to sell) could've picked up a 2nd rounder for trading down 5 spots. They would've still been able to get Albert and Flowers and could've used either the #10 pick or 2nd round pick on a DE.

I just don't buy that. Dorsey is heads and shoulders above Tank/Boone from an athletic standpoint. He looks like a young Warren Sapp on the field.

Logical
04-26-2008, 11:43 PM
I love Dorsey too and watched LSU football for the sole purpose of watching him play. What I don't like is the sudden change in philosophy. The Chiefs have operated the last several months with the mindset that getting a team full of quality starters is better then having a few superstars. Thus the emphasis on acquiring more picks. But then when you have the opportunity to pick up a couple of more high picks you change philosophies on the fly and take the superstar rather than a couple of more starters. Chiefs say they didn't want to pay Allen. Glenn Dorsey's contract guarantees won't be much less than what Jared Allen wanted and he has yet to play a snap in the NFL.

From what I understand Herm was wanting to trade down. Herm gets plenty of flak for his coaching decisions but I've never heard anything negative said about his draft decisions. I'm with him on this one.

I know you cannot have been paying attention, all the announcers were already pointing out we did not have enough Rookie Salary Cap space to handle the 13 picks we still had at that point, so you want us to give up the theoretical best defensive player in the draft to pick a low to medium quality DE later and pick up another 2nd rounder we cannot afford under the Rookie Cap?

Look I am as wary of DT as anyone but you don't blink when a gift horse is given to you.

Mizzou_8541
04-27-2008, 12:19 AM
I love Dorsey too and watched LSU football for the sole purpose of watching him play. What I don't like is the sudden change in philosophy. The Chiefs have operated the last several months with the mindset that getting a team full of quality starters is better then having a few superstars. Thus the emphasis on acquiring more picks. But then when you have the opportunity to pick up a couple of more high picks you change philosophies on the fly and take the superstar rather than a couple of more starters. Chiefs say they didn't want to pay Allen. Glenn Dorsey's contract guarantees won't be much less than what Jared Allen wanted and he has yet to play a snap in the NFL.

From what I understand Herm was wanting to trade down. Herm gets plenty of flak for his coaching decisions but I've never heard anything negative said about his draft decisions. I'm with him on this one.

We got the number one player in the draft and you are complaining?

What is your problem?

What don't you understand about had we not traded Jared Allen we would not have any compensation for him?

Your blind pessimism is getting really old...pick a new team.

Chiefmanwillcatch
04-27-2008, 12:36 AM
We needed Oline help.

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2008, 12:37 AM
We needed Oline help.

Uh, "we" received O-Line help

KCChiefsMan
04-27-2008, 01:12 AM
We needed Oline help.

:spock:

noa
04-27-2008, 01:14 AM
Great argument. We should have passed on the most talented defensive player in the draft. As if our organization could afford to be that stupid...

Valiant
04-27-2008, 01:14 AM
I know you cannot have been paying attention, all the announcers were already pointing out we did not have enough Rookie Salary Cap space to handle the 13 picks we still had at that point, so you want us to give up the theoretical best defensive player in the draft to pick a low to medium quality DE later and pick up another 2nd rounder we cannot afford under the Rookie Cap?

Look I am as wary of DT as anyone but you don't blink when a gift horse is given to you.

And most of those announcers know about as much as us or less...

We get alloted rookie salary cap, We also have an assload of normal cap space.. We could have signed twenty rookies this year with our cap and rookie allotment..

Logical
04-27-2008, 01:33 AM
And most of those announcers know about as much as us or less...

We get alloted rookie salary cap, We also have an assload of normal cap space.. We could have signed twenty rookies this year with our cap and rookie allotment..Don't work that way. Total cap space has nothing to do with the Rookie Salary Cap. Too bad the search function really no longer works as a couple of years back there was an excellent explanation of the Rookie Salary Cap.

Logical
04-27-2008, 01:39 AM
Not as good as what was previously published but better than nothing.

Each year there is an NFL draft. The NFL considers the number of picks you made and the rounds they were made in, and gives you a rookie salary cap. This rookie cap is typically something like about $3M - $6M. This is a portion of your overall salary cap, it's not extra money. The contracts you sign with your draftees must fit not only in your overall salary cap, but also inside this rookie cap. For this reason your 1st round draft pick is typically the last to sign. You need to sign everyone else first so that you know how much cap space you have available for the 1st round pick. If you've used up most of your rookie cap on the other players, you're going to have to sign a contract with a bunch of roster bonuses and such to make up the money you need and still fit in this year's camp.
A rookie contract may also include incentive clauses. In this case there is no player history to determine if the payment is likely or unlikely to be earned. So, the NFL has a huge table of possible incentives and how they count. In the case of rookies, the incentive clauses may count partially as likely and partially as unlikely. For example, if you draft a running back and include incentives for rushing yards, there is a table which tells you what fraction of the incentive is likely and what fraction is unlikely. Generally an incentive is unlikely to be earned if the rookie was drafted in the 4th or later round. In rounds 1-3 the amounts which are likely to be earned are not very high.

BigDaddyChief
04-27-2008, 01:41 AM
Why am I even reading this post. Guys, we won the freaking lottery! Lets just hope Carl doesn't tear up the winning ticket on Day 2.

Chief_in_Commander
04-27-2008, 03:19 AM
yeah because if we draft an end at #10 there is a gurantee he is a great pass rusher more so that the most highly sought after defensive player fell into our laps and we should just trade down and draft someone else. I mean we don't need defensive tackles at all either right? so it was just a complete waste and pointless pick..........?

Coogs
04-27-2008, 07:05 AM
Dorsey is probably gonna be a good football player but the gap between him and Tank/Boone is less than the gap between Jared Allen and any DE on the roster. You wanna see what the current best case scenario is for our D line look at Jacksonville. They basically traded away their entire draft trying to get a decent pass rusher.

Chiefs at the very minimum (despite whatever BS Gretz is trying to sell) could've picked up a 2nd rounder for trading down 5 spots. They would've still been able to get Albert and Flowers and could've used either the #10 pick or 2nd round pick on a DE.

I'm not going to read this thread. This is a two year rebuild. George Selvie from South Florida. Watch him if you get a chance next fall.

patteeu
04-27-2008, 07:29 AM
I'm not excited. He was the guy I expected.

How 'bout that 13 Wonderlic for a LT, eh?

Is that a new high for a Bronco? ;)

Mr. Laz
04-27-2008, 07:34 AM
Dorsey is probably gonna be a good football player but the gap between him and Tank/Boone is less than the gap between Jared Allen and any DE on the roster. You wanna see what the current best case scenario is for our D line look at Jacksonville. They basically traded away their entire draft trying to get a decent pass rusher.

Chiefs at the very minimum (despite whatever BS Gretz is trying to sell) could've picked up a 2nd rounder for trading down 5 spots. They would've still been able to get Albert and Flowers and could've used either the #10 pick or 2nd round pick on a DE.
disagree

The Bad Guy
04-27-2008, 07:55 AM
It doesn't amaze me that an asshat like you would be upset with this.

Piss off.

BigMeatballDave
04-27-2008, 07:56 AM
Wow. I cannot believe the stupidity in some people...

Bowser
04-27-2008, 07:58 AM
Here you go! A million dollars!



But, but I wanted TWO million dollars!

BigMeatballDave
04-27-2008, 07:58 AM
How can ANY Chief fan NOT be ecstatic over this pick?

BigMeatballDave
04-27-2008, 08:10 AM
From what I understand Herm was wanting to trade down. He was, but YOU DO NOT PASS ON A PLAYER LIKE DORSEY. Period.

BigMeatballDave
04-27-2008, 08:20 AM
We needed Oline help.Dumbass. ROFL

CanadaKC
04-27-2008, 08:24 AM
From what I read yesterday on the foxsports website, is that there was a RUMOUR that the Saints were offering their 1st and 2nd round pick this year...and their 1st round pick next year. But that turned out to be total bullsh!t. Any GM in the league would have jumped on that one, even the article said it, but the Saints only offered their 1st and 2nd round pick...
I'm freaking happy we landed a player like Dorsey...it's about time we had a guy on defense who is not only a beast...but a LEADER. He'll make everyone better by his effort...we'll love this guy for years to come IMO.

Bwana
04-27-2008, 08:25 AM
Wrong.........

smittysbar
04-27-2008, 10:03 AM
Best day as a chiefs fan for years..............Dumbest thread as a chiefs fan for years.