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KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 01:42 PM
I'm thrilled with this year's draft as many of you are. However...

Reality check:

KC allowed 55 sacks last year (T-last)
KC rushed for 78 YPG last year (last).

I'm all excited about the DT, CBs, WR, RB, etc... but this was supposed to be the draft that addressed the OL.

Right now we are looking at just 4 starters: Albert, Waters, MacIntosh and Niswanger. No telling who will play what and there ain't crap there for depth.

Remember, Gailey will run a lot of 2-TE sets with downhill rushing plays. I'm not seeing the kind of top tier OL that can get that done here.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2008, 01:43 PM
Jesus Christ....

I knew I should have stayed away from this place today.

banyon
04-27-2008, 01:43 PM
8-8 NOW!!!!!

kstater
04-27-2008, 01:44 PM
:banghead:

milkman
04-27-2008, 01:44 PM
That's okay.

You thought Donnell Bennett was a hell of RB, so clearly, your vision isn't all that good.

eazyb81
04-27-2008, 01:44 PM
How many posts are you going to make whining about the draft?

Seriously, just tell me a number so I know when to stop ignoring you.

Basileus777
04-27-2008, 01:44 PM
We aren't going to fix this team in a year. Reaching for needs is how we got in this mess to begin with.

CupidStunt
04-27-2008, 01:45 PM
Build. For. The. Future.

FFS.

ChiefsLV
04-27-2008, 01:45 PM
:shrug: I guess we're starting Wade Smith at center and Niswanger at guard. I was hoping we'd pick up another guard or center, but we had to have that blocking TE in the third.

the Talking Can
04-27-2008, 01:45 PM
this was not supposed be anything other than a chance to draft the best talent available....

we had a great draft precisely because we ignored the true fans plea to "fix the OL"....

Herm said explicitly that they draft for value, not need...the smartest thing a KC coach has said in years....

Mecca
04-27-2008, 01:45 PM
Psh, this team needs TALENT everywhere, no need to worry about any needs. These next couple drafts are about stocking this team nothing else. You do that by getting the best players.

the Talking Can
04-27-2008, 01:46 PM
Herm understands, like most of us, that this is a 2-3 yr process...there are no shortcuts...

keg in kc
04-27-2008, 01:46 PM
I take the fact that he doesn't like it as the surest sign of all that it's a good draft.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2008, 01:47 PM
I take the fact that he doesn't like it was the surest sign of all that it's a good draft.

ROFL

Mecca
04-27-2008, 01:48 PM
I take the fact that he doesn't like it was the surest sign of all that it's a good draft.

Wait till Frankie bitches that will make it a lock.

KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 01:49 PM
:shrug: I guess we're starting Wade Smith at center and Niswanger at guard. I was hoping we'd pick up another guard or center, but we had to have that blocking TE in the third.

I'm all for the youth movement and I understand the policy of BPA.

However, what about all that caution about trying to develop a young QB who is running for his life and has no rushing attack to fall back on? Those 2 stats (dead last in pass protect and rushing) are not going to improve because we might have the best defense in the AFCW. I also agree with the strategy of stocking talent but the place we most needed talent was OL. Just my $.02.

Count Alex's Losses
04-27-2008, 01:49 PM
I just don't understand taking ONE lineman in the first five rounds. It's stupid given the state of our sorry-ass line.

Adept Havelock
04-27-2008, 01:49 PM
I take the fact that he doesn't like it was the surest sign of all that it's a good draft.

LMAO :clap:

BigChiefFan
04-27-2008, 01:50 PM
The Chiefs have kicked ass with their picks. I haven't seen them do this well in Carl's entire tenure. I love to dog pile on the FO, but this weekend isn't one of them. The FO actually deserves some props for their extensive research on taking the best players to improve this team long-term.

markk
04-27-2008, 01:51 PM
kill yourself and all who agree

KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 01:51 PM
I take the fact that he doesn't like it was the surest sign of all that it's a good draft.

We'ren't you one of the most vocal advocates against the "win ugly 13-10" approach of the Edwards regime?

Also, I did not say I didn't like it; I merely pointed out that the #1 most glaring need personnel-wise is still the #1 most glaring need personnel-wise.

Mecca
04-27-2008, 01:51 PM
Guess what the Chiefs are being smart, there are still some guys who will start left..

A couple of my personal faves are Barry Richardson and Brandon Keith.

CupidStunt
04-27-2008, 01:52 PM
Chiefs are basically looking at the next two or maybe three drafts as an opportunity for them to draft somewhere in the region of 22 to 28 players across the board that can help this team win. If they hit the jackpot on just a few of them (such as Dorsey and Albert), while the rest contribute BECAUSE THEY WERE THE BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE, that's a major success and KC will become a championship caliber team for the LONG HAUL.

banyon
04-27-2008, 01:52 PM
Guess what the Chiefs are being smart, there are still some guys who will start left..

A couple of my personal faves are Barry Richardson and Brandon Keith.

We should definitely take Keith. His first name is "Brandon"!

keg in kc
04-27-2008, 01:52 PM
I think it's a travesty that we took that little RB (too small to play in the NFL!), and safety, that blocking TE or Will Franklin instead of Carl Nicks. Carl Nicks, damn it. Carl Nicks.

[/repeat]

siberian khatru
04-27-2008, 01:53 PM
I'm all for the youth movement and I understand the policy of BPA.

However, what about all that caution about trying to develop a young QB who is running for his life and has no rushing attack to fall back on? Those 2 stats (dead last in pass protect and rushing) are not going to improve because we might have the best defense in the AFCW. I also agree with the strategy of stocking talent but the place we most needed talent was OL. Just my $.02.

Who says we haven't improved it for Brodie? Albert most definitely should be a major upgrade, and getting Wiegmann out of there might be an upgrade (he certainly was part of the problem last year). You can't fix it all in one draft. We did spend a first-round pick on OL. We'll add depth with UDFAs.

The OL should be better next year, and even better in 2009. Baby steps.

Delano
04-27-2008, 01:54 PM
Is this thread advocating the Chiefs to reach for need and losing value?

With the big time run on o-lineman, it just wasn't worth spending a top pick.

You might try to argue that one of the third rounders could be spent on OL, but the first two rounders were about as good as it gets.

KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 01:59 PM
Is this thread advocating the Chiefs to reach for need and losing value?

With the big time run on o-lineman, it just wasn't worth spending a top pick.

You might try to argue that one of the third rounders could be spent on OL, but the first two rounders were about as good as it gets.

No, this thread is raising the issue of the obvious, that's all. This OL is still a mess and we are staring in the face of another season where scoring 13 ppg will be tough sledding.

I understand the youth movement, rebuild, BPA, blah blah blah, but I am still a little disppointed in the OL draft. I guess its mainly because all off-season I had visions of Jake Long starting at OLT in 2008.

Delano
04-27-2008, 02:01 PM
No, this thread is raising the issue of the obvious, that's all. This OL is still a mess and we are staring in the face of another season where scoring 13 ppg will be tough sledding.

I understand the youth movement, rebuild, BPA, blah blah blah, but I am still a little disppointed in the OL draft. I guess its mainly because all off-season I had visions of Jake Long starting at OLT in 2008.

Can't blame the Chiefs for the run on lineman.

There are still some quality tackles out there that would fill out the line and if not there, free agents are a possible stop-gap in the rebuild.

KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 02:03 PM
Can't blame the Chiefs for the run on lineman.

There are still some quality tackles out there that would fill out the line and if not there, free agents are a possible stop-gap in the rebuild.

Its not just the starting 5. Injuries can rapidly deplete the talent pool and you wind up calling up guys off the taxi squad. Our depth at OL is deplorable. I'm not saying we can't find some pleasant surprises in camp or off the waiver wire. That's a low probability however.

BigChiefFan
04-27-2008, 02:14 PM
You have to look at it from the Chiefs perspective-they have holes EVERYWHERE, not just O-line, EVERYWHERE. We don't have the luxury of focusing on just a couple of positions to improve for the long-term. The Chiefs currently have McIntosh, Waters, Niswanger, Svitek, Wade Johnson, Adrian Jones, Alabi, Leffew, Rob Johnson, Herb Taylor, and now Branden Albert-all of them are OFFENSIVE LINEMAN.

Brock
04-27-2008, 02:16 PM
How will we ever get back to 8-8 without some more mediocre linemen?

KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 02:17 PM
You have to look at it from the Chiefs perspective-they have holes EVERYWHERE, not just O-line, EVERYWHERE. We don't have the luxury of focusing on just a couple of positions to improve for the long-term. The Chiefs currently have McIntosh, Waters, Niswanger, Svitek, Wade Johnson, Adrian Jones, Alabi, Leffew, Rob Johnson, Herb Taylor, and now Branden Albert-all of them are OFFENSIVE LINEMAN.

I guess I am anticipating Gailey's offense. I don't see it getting far beyond the current 14 PPG without significant improvement on the OL to include bench depth. Not having a franchise QB also puts lots of onus on the OL to dominate in the rushing attack. I know its a rebuiild year, but these issues will be talked about during the 2008 campaign.

BigChiefFan
04-27-2008, 02:19 PM
I guess I am anticipating Gailey's offense. I don't see it getting far beyond the current 14 PPG without significant improvement on the OL to include bench depth. Not having a franchise QB also puts lots of onus on the OL to dominate in the rushing attack. I know its a rebuiild year, but these issues will be talked about during the 2008 campaign.
My goodness, John. Did you actually think the team could magically become a playoff caliber team in one off-season after gutting the franchise?

KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 02:22 PM
My goodness, John. Did you actually think the team could magically become a playoff caliber team in one off-season after gutting the franchise?

Of course not. I am just noticing there wasn't much attention paid to the sucking chest wound of this team. Dead last in sacks allowed and dead last in rushing YPG require OL attention. I'm not talking about winning the '08 SB, but dang, we need to get out of the #32 spot in these two critical areas.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2008, 02:24 PM
Guess what the Chiefs are being smart, there are still some guys who will start left..

A couple of my personal faves are Barry Richardson and Brandon Keith.

BAM!

markk
04-27-2008, 02:26 PM
richardson is a great pick. i didnt think of him during the draft but now i wonder why he was still available

BigChiefFan
04-27-2008, 02:27 PM
Of course not. I am just noticing there wasn't much attention paid to the sucking chest wound of this team. Dead last in sacks allowed and dead last in rushing YPG require OL attention. I'm not talking about winning the '08 SB, but dang, we need to get out of the #32 spot in these two critical areas.McIntosh, Waters, Niswanger, Svitek, Wade Johnson, Adrian Jones, Alabi, Leffew, Rob Johnson, Herb Taylor, and now Branden Albert.

How exactly is that ignoring the position? Maybe the Chiefs actually don't think some of the draftees are as good as whose on our roster. We aren't going to be very good next year, we'll add more O-lineman next year and maybe even later in the draft. Right now the word of the day is VALUE.

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2008, 02:28 PM
McIntosh, Waters, Niswanger, Svitek, Wade Johnson, Adrian Jones, Alabi, Leffew, Rob Johnson, Herb Taylor, and now Branden Albert.

How exactly is that ignoring the position? Maybe the Chiefs actually don't think some of the draftees are as good as whose on our roster. We aren't going to be very good next year, we'll add more O-lineman next year and maybe even later in the draft. Right now the word of the day is VALUE.


To these guys, they are ignoring the position because none of them are "name" guys.

They've never heard of them, so they just assume they suck.

The Richardson pick here in the 6th is another great pick, and will compete for a spot at RT or RG.

KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 02:29 PM
McIntosh, Waters, Niswanger, Svitek, Wade Johnson, Adrian Jones, Alabi, Leffew, Rob Johnson, Herb Taylor, and now Branden Albert.

How exactly is that ignoring the position? Maybe the Chiefs actually don't think some of the draftees are as good as whose on our roster. We aren't going to be very good next year, we'll add more O-lineman next year and maybe even later in the draft. Right now the word of the day is VALUE.

Fair enuff. Most of those guys are camp fodder. The OL is bound to get better for 3 reasons.

1. You can't lower than #32.
2. Gailey knows O better than Solari.
3. They'll have to fight Glen Dorsey in practice every week.

Brock
04-27-2008, 02:30 PM
To these guys, they are ignoring the position because none of them are "name" guys.

They've never heard of them, so they just assume they suck.

The Richardson pick here in the 6th is another great pick, and will compete for a spot at RT.

Yeah, anytime you bring them up, they're "camp fodder, because I never heard of him, even though I don't watch college football".

Gravedigger
04-27-2008, 02:32 PM
I'm thrilled with this year's draft as many of you are. However...

Reality check:

KC allowed 55 sacks last year (T-last)
KC rushed for 78 YPG last year (last).

I'm all excited about the DT, CBs, WR, RB, etc... but this was supposed to be the draft that addressed the OL.

Right now we are looking at just 4 starters: Albert, Waters, MacIntosh and Niswanger. No telling who will play what and there ain't crap there for depth.

Remember, Gailey will run a lot of 2-TE sets with downhill rushing plays. I'm not seeing the kind of top tier OL that can get that done here.

IMO bring better stats than what ESPN has been spamming in the bar for the last 2 days under the KC tab.

BigMeatballDave
04-27-2008, 02:32 PM
Jesus Christ....

I knew I should have stayed away from this place today.No shit. When did rebuilding only last one freaking season?

OnTheWarpath58
04-27-2008, 02:34 PM
No shit. When did rebuilding only last one freaking season?


Uh, never.

But God knows the fan base is in a mad rush to get back to 8- as soon as possible, value for picks and getting BPA's be damned.

B_Ambuehl
04-27-2008, 04:39 PM
Consistently taking the best athlete available is how you end up like the oakland raiders.

Teams that are consistently at the top (new england, pittsburgh etc.) draft for quality across the board rather than a few superstars.

J Diddy
04-27-2008, 04:40 PM
Consistently taking the best athlete available is how you end up like the oakland raiders.

Teams that are consistently at the top (new england, pittsburgh etc.) draft for quality across the board rather than a few superstars.

nobody said best athlete available

best player available

banyon
04-27-2008, 04:41 PM
Consistently taking the best athlete available is how you end up like the oakland raiders.

Teams that are consistently at the top (new england, pittsburgh etc.) draft for quality across the board rather than a few superstars.

I agree to a point. You have to be balanced, need & BAA. We usually reached for positions of need with guys who were terrible projects.

Now we picked the best guys, but still picked a good spread of them. That's why it's a great draft.

J Diddy
04-27-2008, 04:42 PM
Uh, never.

But God knows the fan base is in a mad rush to get back to 8- as soon as possible, value for picks and getting BPA's be damned.

If we get 8 wins this season I will be ecstatic

KCTitus
04-27-2008, 04:57 PM
If we get 8 wins this season I will be ecstatic

Half of that will be a success for this group.

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2008, 05:11 PM
If we get 8 wins this season I will be ecstatic

If the Chiefs win 4 games in 2008, I'll be ecstatic.

KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 05:15 PM
If the Chiefs win 4 games in 2008, I'll be ecstatic.

Chiefs will be 3-13 next year as the kids will be overwhelmed, the playbook drastically simplified, the scheme dumbed down, and the opponents fierce. But there will be few blow outs and a lot of close games. The O will get 300+ YPG and the D may improve slightly (the loss of Allen is huge). By November though, some of these kids will be emerging studs and the 2009 campaign will be a serious run at the post season, maybe a division title. Maybe.

BigChiefFan
04-27-2008, 05:20 PM
Chiefs will be 3-13 next year as the kids will be overwhelmed, the playbook drastically simplified, the scheme dumbed down, and the opponents fierce. But there will be few blow outs and a lot of close games. The O will get 300+ YPG and the D may improve slightly (the loss of Allen is huge). By November though, some of these kids will be emerging studs and the 2009 campaign will be a serious run at the post season, maybe a division title. Maybe.The offense has alot further to go than you think. Average 300 yards per game?-I seriously doubt it.

KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 05:23 PM
The offense has alot further to go than you think. Average 300 yards per game?-I seriously doubt it.

Don't underestimate Gailey. He has made chicken salad out of
chicken$#!+ before. We won't crack the top half of NFL Os but we will have improvement in the running game and that should set up some other gains.

TRR
04-27-2008, 06:21 PM
I was pretty "middle of the road" on rounds 3 - 7...Mainly round 3. I really wanted KC to pull at least one more starter out of round 3, and they definitely didn't do that. We picked a RB that could sit behind Larry Johnson and Kolby Smith, a TE that isn't much different than the backups KC currently has, and a Safety that provides depth, but probably won't push Paige or Pollard out of a job.

KC needs depth in almost every position. But I don't think you draft for depth in the 3rd round. Especially when a player like Zuttah is there who could come in and start immediately.

Just my opinion...

Sully
04-27-2008, 06:27 PM
I don't know that a guy who thought we should play Kris Wilson at tailback should even be allowed an opinion...

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2008, 06:27 PM
I was pretty "middle of the road" on rounds 3 - 7...Mainly round 3. I really wanted KC to pull at least one more starter out of round 3, and they definitely didn't do that. We picked a RB that could sit behind Larry Johnson and Kolby Smith, a TE that isn't much different than the backups KC currently has, and a Safety that provides depth, but probably won't push Paige or Pollard out of a job.

KC needs depth in almost every position. But I don't think you draft for depth in the 3rd round. Especially when a player like Zuttah is there who could come in and start immediately.

Just my opinion...

Who are these "other" tight ends you refer to?

Wasn't LJ injured last year? Weren't guys like Gilbert Harris on the field?

Did Pollard have trouble in the scheme?

Mecca
04-27-2008, 06:29 PM
If people had actually seen DaJuan Morgan play they'd understand he is probably the best safety on the roster.

beach tribe
04-27-2008, 06:34 PM
If people had actually seen DaJuan Morgan play they'd understand he is probably the best safety on the roster.

I have to agree, and I like our safeties.

Morgan will wind up starting for this team.

TRR
04-27-2008, 06:36 PM
Who are these "other" tight ends you refer to?

Wasn't LJ injured last year? Weren't guys like Gilbert Harris on the field?

Did Pollard have trouble in the scheme?

Michael Allen, JP Foschi, and Joe Lobdell were already on the roster, and just as big, and have the same M.O. as Brad Cottam. Not much of a passing threat, but a big blocker.

Harris was on the field last season, and I don't mind the Jamaal Charles pick...However, I don't think you draft a 3rd RB in the 3rd round. That being said, I do think he will end up being a good situational RB.

DaJuan Morgan was a head scratcher because it looks like KC is still going to keep both Greg Wesley and Jon McGraw on the roster. I like the pick, I just believe that you could have gotten a starter here on the O Line, instead of a 4th or 5th Safety.

Mecca
04-27-2008, 06:37 PM
Brad Cottam is way more talented than you are giving him creidt for...

And I'm sorry Wesley will probably get cut and Morgan will start for this team, he is light years better than our safeties.

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2008, 06:42 PM
Michael Allen, JP Foschi, and Joe Lobdell were already on the roster, and just as big, and have the same M.O. as Brad Cottam. Not much of a passing threat, but a big blocker.

Harris was on the field last season, and I don't mind the Jamaal Charles pick...However, I don't think you draft a 3rd RB in the 3rd round. That being said, I do think he will end up being a good situational RB.

DaJuan Morgan was a head scratcher because it looks like KC is still going to keep both Greg Wesley and Jon McGraw on the roster. I like the pick, I just believe that you could have gotten a starter here on the O Line, instead of a 4th or 5th Safety.

Michael Allan was a D-III player who needed to put on a massive amount of muscle.

Cottam is 6'8 and rated by many as the most physically gifted, natural TE in the draft. If he can pick up where Jason Dunn left off (who was a MAJOR part of the offensive production from 2001-2005), the Chiefs will have a steal.

Wesley could very well be gone before the end of training camp, via trade or outright release. Jon McGraw is probably best suited as a special team tackler, not a true safety.

The Chiefs need help at EVERY position. Reaching for a tackle wouldn't have been wise, especially if there's an injury to LJ or either of the starting safeties.

FWIW, I view Charles as a poor-man's Tiki Barber. Barber was "just" a third down back when drafted by NYG and had fumbling problems. A few years later, the guy is one of the very best backs in the league.

TRR
04-27-2008, 06:42 PM
Brad Cottam is way more talented than you are giving him creidt for...

And I'm sorry Wesley will probably get cut and Morgan will start for this team, he is light years better than our safeties.

You may be right, but Cottam has nothing to back that statement up. At least Michael Allen dominated the league he played in, and is close to the same size.

Like you, I like the Morgan pick, but the kid has never started a full season in his Collegiate career. He started one game his Junior season, and 10 out of 12 games his Senior season. I like the pick, but thought that KC could have gotten better value.

I could be wrong.

Mecca
04-27-2008, 06:44 PM
The other overlooked thing, DaJuan Morgan is a great special teams player...he could be the Chiefs special teams captain right now.

TRR
04-27-2008, 06:45 PM
Michael Allan was a D-III player who needed to put on a massive amount of muscle.

Cottam is 6'8 and rated by many as the most physically gifted, natural TE in the draft. If he can pick up where Jason Dunn left off (who was a MAJOR part of the offensive production from 2001-2005), the Chiefs will have a steal.

Wesley could very well be gone before the end of training camp, via trade or outright release. Jon McGraw is probably best suited as a special team tackler, not a true safety.

The Chiefs need help at EVERY position. Reaching for a tackle wouldn't have been wise, especially if there's an injury to LJ or either of the starting safeties.

FWIW, I view Charles as a poor-man's Tiki Barber. Barber was "just" a third down back when drafted by NYG and had fumbling problems. A few years later, the guy is one of the very best backs in the league.

Allen is 6'6, 260 pounds. Cottom is 6'7, 270 pounds. Not much of a difference. I just don't see it.

You may be right about the safety pick as long as Wesley is traded/released.

I do like the Charles pick...I just don't know when, if ever, he will crack the starting lineup.

Mecca
04-27-2008, 06:46 PM
Charles doesn't have to be a "starter" his role should and will likely always be what Dallas picked Felix Jones to do.

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2008, 06:47 PM
Allen is 6'6, 260 pounds. Cottom is 6'7, 270 pounds. Not much of a difference. I just don't see it.

You may be right about the safety pick as long as Wesley is traded/released.

I do like the Charles pick...I just don't know when, if ever, he will crack the starting lineup.

Cottom's 6'8 and played at Tennessee, in the SEC. Allen played at Whitmore College, DIII in Washington. While Allan *may* become a decent player, he's got a long, long, long way to go.

Charles is two injuries away from being the starer. Considering last year (and years past with Priest Holmes), Charles may be starting much sooner than you can imagine.

keg in kc
04-27-2008, 06:50 PM
Allen also went about 4.7 in his 40 last year IIRC, so they're similar in speed. But they're different in that Cottom can apparently block as well as catch passes, whereas Allen was seen almost exclusively as a receiving TE.

Either way, Cottom's apparently seen as a physical specimen with huge upside, but he has to kill the injury bug.

The last pick is the one I didn't get, unless the plans are to convert him to a lineman. Yes, I know the Dunn comparison, but Dunn was actually a good all -around TE before his knees went bad. But, hell, it's a 7th rounder, so it doesn't really matter.

eazyb81
04-27-2008, 06:50 PM
Allen is 6'6, 260 pounds. Cottom is 6'7, 270 pounds. Not much of a difference. I just don't see it.


You do understand that the value of players isn't solely based on height and weight, right?

You also realize that Cottam was arguably the most physically gifted TE in the draft and was a top 3 TE overall, while Allen was a late round nobody for a reason?

keg in kc
04-27-2008, 06:51 PM
Charles is two injuries away from being the starer. Considering last year (and years past with Priest Holmes), Charles may be starting much sooner than you can imagine.Particularly if we run the ball 550 times.

Don417
04-27-2008, 06:52 PM
One of the deepest drafts in years for OLineman and the chiefs take exactly one in the first five rounds. And you people think it's all gravy. Did you forget already how awful the OLine is?

TRR
04-27-2008, 06:52 PM
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. If we could have kept Jamaal Charles, drafted Early Doucet instead of Brad Cottam, and Jeremy Zuttah instead of DaJuan Morgan, I would be extremely happy. I believe both Zuttah (especially) and Doucet would have made an immediate impact. I don't see Cottam or Morgan doing that...

We also added another blocking TE in the 7th round. How many do we need??

Either way, only time will tell. Zuttah and Doucet could be busts...

keg in kc
04-27-2008, 06:54 PM
One of the deepest drafts in years for OLineman and the chiefs take exactly one in the first five rounds. And you people think it's all gravy. Did you forget already how awful the OLine is?Odds are they took exactly one in the first five rounds because it was one of the deepest drafts in years for o-line. They got great value in the sixth and there's a lot of undrafted talent.

Mecca
04-27-2008, 06:55 PM
Doucet is small and slow and profiles to the slot....and not as a big play slot guy either..Zuttah I also like but not more than DaJuan Morgan..

Morgan to me was the 2nd best safety in this draft.

TRR
04-27-2008, 06:55 PM
You do understand that the value of players isn't solely based on height and weight, right?

You also realize that Cottam was arguably the most physically gifted TE in the draft and was a top 3 TE overall, while Allen was a late round nobody for a reason?

Cottam did have a good Senior Bowl. But your talking about a TE who comibined for 20 TOTAL CATCHES HIS ENTIRE COLLEGIATE CAREER. 20? Maybe he wasn't targeted in the offense, maybe he is a late bloomer? Only time will tell...But your talking about value, and a 20 catch TE his entire career just doesn't gleam VALUE in the 3rd round.

Mecca
04-27-2008, 06:56 PM
Odds are they took exactly one in the first five rounds because it was one of the deepest drafts in years for o-line. They got great value in the sixth and there's a lot of undrafted talent.

Yea man we shoulda been like Houston and drafted a dude 3 rounds to high! Early in the draft there were some ridiculous OL reaches.

tk13
04-27-2008, 06:57 PM
It'd been nice to get maybe one more lineman. But I also wonder how much the "value" of the board was skewed by the fact that there was a huge run on OL players. This was considered a deep OL draft, and because of it teams were reaching up into the first round for guys expected to go much later. Kinda skewed the whole group of offensive line players.

Mecca
04-27-2008, 06:57 PM
Cottam did have a good Senior Bowl. But your talking about a TE who comibined for 20 TOTAL CATCHES HIS ENTIRE COLLEGIATE CAREER. 20? Maybe he wasn't targeted in the offense, maybe he is a late bloomer? Only time will tell...But your talking about value, and a 20 catch TE his entire career just doesn't gleam VALUE in the 3rd round.

He's going to be the 2nd TE, he comes from Tennessee, injuries set him back but he's very physically gifted. He can block, has a big body and has very very high upside as a receiver because of his talent.

eazyb81
04-27-2008, 06:57 PM
Cottam did have a good Senior Bowl. But your talking about a TE who comibined for 20 TOTAL CATCHES HIS ENTIRE COLLEGIATE CAREER. 20? Maybe he wasn't targeted in the offense, maybe he is a late bloomer? Only time will tell...But your talking about value, and a 20 catch TE his entire career just doesn't gleam VALUE in the 3rd round.

Sure, I can understand that argument. I just don't see the point in trying to compare and contrast Cottam and Allen based on height and weight. That seems incredibly stupid.

Mecca
04-27-2008, 06:59 PM
Lets put it this way, Brad Cottam is full of upside unlike players like John Carlson who were taken ahead of him.

Martellus Bennett was someone I loved at TE but Cottam is right up there.

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2008, 07:15 PM
One of the deepest drafts in years for OLineman and the chiefs take exactly one in the first five rounds. And you people think it's all gravy. Did you forget already how awful the OLine is?

Richardson will be the steal of the draft. Additionally, the Chiefs have high hopes for Herb Taylor, who will be in his second year.

There was NO reason to rush out and draft every available lineman at each position.

This team is at least one more solid draft away from 8-8.

And that's only if Croyle doesn't completely suck.

KCJohnny
04-27-2008, 07:18 PM
And that's only if Croyle doesn't completely suck.

He didn't completely suck last year with the league's most porous OL (last in sacks allowed) and worst rushing offense (78 YPG). Factor in he was using Al Saunders' Euclidian playbook and Mike Solari was calling the plays, and you see Brodie didn't do half bad. Give him an improved OL, a couple new weapons, a real actual rushing attack and a grownup calling the plays in a simplified athlete-friendly scheme, and Croyle might look purdy good.

Dylan
04-28-2008, 01:55 AM
FWIW, I view Charles as a poor-man's Tiki Barber. Barber was "just" a third down back when drafted by NYG and had fumbling problems. A few years later, the guy is one of the very best backs in the league.

Tom Coughlin gave Tiki Barber his fame. .... Tiki wasn't successful until Coughlin changed the way he held the ball -- not making as many turnovers is not easily taught. At the beginning of 2007 season, Ahmad Bradshaw fumbled in his first game. Coughlin has been working with him on ways of holding the football, especially the way Coughlin taught Tiki. The coach benches a lot of players during the year. It works. When they become starters again, they never make the same mistake. lol

Tiki Barber owns his career and the whispers of HOF player to Tom Coughlin. Without Coughlin, Barber could had very well been a fumbling nobody. He quickly progressed from a third-down, change of pace back to become a standout starting running back, overcoming injuries and working through his flaws with the help of his coach Tom Coughlin; his stellar 2005 season, where he finished the year with 2,390 total yards (the second highest total in history of the NFL).
When Coach Tom Coughlin arrived he taught Tiki to hold the ball vertically instead of horizontally. After changing this his fumbles went down dramatically: in 2004, he only had 2 lost fumbles.
Tiki had one weakness to overcome: fumbling the football. Barber had six lost fumbles in both the 2002 and 2003 seasons, including three lost fumbles in a single game against the Philadelphia Eagles on December 28, 2002.

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2008, 02:05 AM
He didn't completely suck last year with the league's most porous OL (last in sacks allowed) and worst rushing offense (78 YPG). Factor in he was using Al Saunders' Euclidian playbook and Mike Solari was calling the plays, and you see Brodie didn't do half bad. Give him an improved OL, a couple new weapons, a real actual rushing attack and a grownup calling the plays in a simplified athlete-friendly scheme, and Croyle might look purdy good.


Um, he DID completely suck. He was 0-6.

Let's just stop with the f*cking bullshit about Croyle, right now.

He didn't will a team to victory.

He didn't will a team to a tie.

He didn't even will a team to be competitive.

He sucked.

What's f*cking ironic is that a bunch of the f*ckers on the 'Planet say that Eli Manning sucks! He just won the freakin' Super Bowl and willed his team to 6 straight wins (and like 9 on the road).

What the f*ck does that say about Croyle?

DaneMcCloud
04-28-2008, 02:07 AM
Tom Coughlin gave Tiki Barber his fame. .... Tiki wasn't successful until Coughlin changed the way he held the ball -- not making as many turnovers is not easily taught. At the beginning of 2007 season, Ahmad Bradshaw fumbled in his first game. Coughlin has been working with him on ways of holding the football, especially the way Coughlin taught Tiki. The coach benches a lot of players during the year. It works. When they become starters again, they never make the same mistake. lol

QFT.

MY truth.

Charles may end up being the key to this draft.

In two years.

KCJohnny
04-28-2008, 11:20 AM
Um, he DID completely suck. He was 0-6.

Let's just stop with the f*cking bullshit about Croyle, right now.

He didn't will a team to victory.

He didn't will a team to a tie.

He didn't even will a team to be competitive.

He sucked.

What's f*cking ironic is that a bunch of the f*ckers on the 'Planet say that Eli Manning sucks! He just won the freakin' Super Bowl and willed his team to 6 straight wins (and like 9 on the road).

What the f*ck does that say about Croyle?

You need to consult a thesaurus and learn a few new adjectives, friend.

dj56dt58
04-28-2008, 11:39 AM
Um, he DID completely suck. He was 0-6.

Let's just stop with the f*cking bullshit about Croyle, right now.

He didn't will a team to victory.

He didn't will a team to a tie.

He didn't even will a team to be competitive.

He sucked.

What's f*cking ironic is that a bunch of the f*ckers on the 'Planet say that Eli Manning sucks! He just won the freakin' Super Bowl and willed his team to 6 straight wins (and like 9 on the road).

What the f*ck does that say about Croyle?

Tom Brady wouldn't have done shit behind our line last year with LJ out

DT Fan
04-28-2008, 02:06 PM
Offensive Line, along with Receiver and QB, seems to be a position that takes guys a couple of years to develop. I'm guessing there are more successful mid to late round picks starting on OL than any other position in the league.

Point being that the staff may think that some of the young guys, like Taylor, may develop into a solid start, which would explain why they didn't draft more than two linemen. Granted, I don't know what they would have done if a 3rd/4th round talent like Richardson hadn't been there in the 6th, but he was and they nabbed a 2nd linemen with potential.

Clearly, too, they thought that TE was a bigtime position of need or they wouldn't have drafted two of them.

Dylan
04-28-2008, 04:02 PM
Here's wishing you guys the best this season. May the 2007 NFL Draft turn out to be the very best for Kansas City. Nobody can write and analize your team better than you do. I truly mean that. ...


Now to my pet peeve -- Sports Journalism 101

I am specifically addressing my concern on the part of sports writers that veer away from their role as journalists to do something immoral -- predict the news.

With the explosion of the Internet, we're dealing with very different sports outlets. False information is passed from blog to blog. Predictions seem to be the norm. Sports is not a difficult place to work, except for people afraid of being left behind. Instead of gathering the news, discussing the news, interpreting the news, reporting the news, they're predicting the news. It's worthless. They're nothing more than fortune tellers.

While their errors may be amusing, false conclusions are not. That's much harder to fix. However, it's common knowledge that mock drafts sell. Whenever you click on a Web site, advertisers take notice. It may be fun, and a few fortune tellers may be right or lucky on individual players, but until the game is played, and until the very end of the season, nobody can write the story.

I'm not here to offend -- My story applies to sports journalists that fall into the trap of predictions. Not to the entertainers and ex-NFL players that appear on sports networks daily. They're in a worthless class all by themselves.

KCJohnny
04-28-2008, 04:04 PM
Clearly, too, they thought that TE was a bigtime position of need or they wouldn't have drafted two of them.

They released Dunn and Kris Wilson, so they needed a blocking and a receiving TE. Last year our TEs also played a lot of H-back, so its a key position. Not sure Gailey will use H-backs, but TE was a legit position of need.