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View Full Version : Chiefs The hypothetical Jared Allen/rookies poll


Douche Baggins
04-27-2008, 11:12 PM
Would you rather have

Jared Allen lining up next to Alfonso Boone, Glenn Dorsey and Tamba Hali

OR

Our current patchwork DL

And Branden Albert, Brad Cottam and DaJuan Morgan?


I guess I'll only be satisfied with the trade if Albert turns out to be a stud LT and Cottam is the long-term replacement for Gonzalez. Morgan would be gravy.

BigRock
04-27-2008, 11:14 PM
If we hadn't traded Allen, Dorsey wouldn't have fallen to #5 and we would have reached on Ryan Clady. That's just how the universe works.

Basileus777
04-27-2008, 11:16 PM
If we hadn't traded Allen, Dorsey wouldn't have fallen to #5 and we would have reached on Ryan Clady. That's just how the universe works.

How did the Allen trade affect Dorsey falling?

I wonder what we would have done if we hadn't traded Allen though. Having the 17th pick gave us the flexibility to go BPA and take Dorsey. If we didn't make the trade we probably would have traded down and taken Clady.

Douche Baggins
04-27-2008, 11:16 PM
If we hadn't traded Allen, Dorsey wouldn't have fallen to #5

I don't think that way for a second.

We might have passed on the sonofabitch though for Clady. :cuss:

BigRock
04-27-2008, 11:16 PM
How did the Allen trade affect Dorsey falling?
Karma.

keg in kc
04-27-2008, 11:28 PM
If we don't trade Allen, and Dorsey falls to 5 (I don't see why he wouldn't have...), I don't think we draft him.

Why do I believe that? Because without that 17th pick, we don't have any possibility at all of getting both Dorsey and Albert, and in that situation, I think they ultimately decide to fill the greater need in Albert. So that extra pick, in my opinion, is what got us Dorsey.

And I think this is probably a whole different draft top-to-bottom if it goes that way. There was a weird kind of momentum for us. A synchronicity. Things just fell our way, and it started with Dorsey. They (literally) got every player they wanted yesterday (I don't know how many people caught this, but apparently Herm told Jaworski the 3 guys we wanted just before the draft started, and we got every one of them...), and that just doesn't happen if Jared's on this roster. It can't happen, because we don't have the picks...

So, personally, I take the draft. I think Dorsey and Albert (and Flowers) are more important to this team than Allen would have been.

Douche Baggins
04-27-2008, 11:30 PM
Personally, I take the draft. I think Dorsey and Albert (and Flowers) are more important to this team than Allen would have been.

If Dorsey is who they think he is, we can find some emaciated weakside defensive end to rush the passer and it won't matter if he doesn't have a 70 million dollar contract. The DL will flourish. That's what great DT play does for you.

Basileus777
04-27-2008, 11:32 PM
apparently Herm told Jaworski the 3 guys we wanted just before the draft started, and we got every one of them...)

Herm's stupid. Next year someone is going to bribe Jaws to reveal our targets.

keg in kc
04-27-2008, 11:32 PM
Herm's stupid. Next year someone is going to bribe Jaws to reveal our targets.I couldn't believe he did it.

Douche Baggins
04-27-2008, 11:33 PM
Herm's stupid. Next year someone is going to bribe Jaws to reveal our targets.

Jaws will never do it. He's part of the secret Herm Edwards fan club. I'm President. Our motto is "At the end of the day, you play to win the game."

KcMizzou
04-27-2008, 11:35 PM
If we don't trade Allen, and Dorsey falls to 5 (I don't see why he wouldn't have...), I don't think we draft him.

Why do I believe that? Because without that 17th pick, we don't have any possibility at all of getting both Dorsey and Albert, and in that situation, I think they ultimately decide to fill the greater need in Albert. So that extra pick, in my opinion, is what got us Dorsey.

And I think this is probably a whole different draft top-to-bottom if it goes that way. There was a weird kind of momentum for us. A synchronicity. Things just fell our way, and it started with Dorsey. They (literally) got every player they wanted yesterday (I don't know how many people caught this, but apparently Herm told Jaworski the 3 guys we wanted just before the draft started, and we got every one of them...), and that just doesn't happen if Jared's on this roster. It can't happen, because we don't have the picks...

So, personally, I take the draft. I think Dorsey and Albert (and Flowers) are more important to this team than Allen would have been.Yep.... things just went right for KC... for once.

Skini
04-27-2008, 11:38 PM
Yep.... things just went right for KC... for once.

Amen, I had very serious doubts but after seeing the way the draft went down I understand why they made the trade.

BigRedChief
04-27-2008, 11:39 PM
Yep.... things just went right for KC... for once.
I'm sorry but I don't like the 3rd round picks. We should have shored up our OL not gotten back ups.

Douche Baggins
04-27-2008, 11:39 PM
I actually enjoy a tasty dish of menstruation. It's great with a little salt and pepper.

And either I'm white and shriveled or black and hung. You can't have it both ways. Pick one.

Short Leash Hootie
04-27-2008, 11:40 PM
these tags are awesome...makes threads so much more fun.

Ari Chi3fs
04-27-2008, 11:41 PM
If we hadn't traded Allen, Dorsey wouldn't have fallen to #5 and we would have reached on Ryan Clady. That's just how the universe works.

yes. I think you are probably right.

KcMizzou
04-27-2008, 11:43 PM
Jaws will never do it. He's part of the secret Herm Edwards fan club. I'm President. Our motto is "At the end of the day, you play to win the game."For some reason Jaws has always been a Chiefs guy. I don't know why, but I like it.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-27-2008, 11:45 PM
For some reason Jaws has always been a Chiefs guy. I don't know why, but I like it.

Well, he was here for a cup of coffee and a thorough piss pounding in the late 80's. Plus CP, Herm, and Vermeil all have obvious Philly ties.

keg in kc
04-27-2008, 11:45 PM
I'm sorry but I don't like the 3rd round picks. We should have shored up our OL not gotten back ups.This is just my perspective, but I think you're thinking too short-term. It's not about whether they're starting in 2008; it's about them starting in 2009 and beyond. And I think it's possible (or probable, even) that all three of them will be key players for the Chiefs in the next three years. And even with that said, I think it's possible that all three will be playing a lot in '08, particularly the safety and the tight end (assuming he can get/stay healthy; he's the risky pick) both of whom could/should be starting at some point this year. The RB has a little more in front of him, but even so, with his speed, I'd bet they'll find a way to use him...

Douche Baggins
04-27-2008, 11:48 PM
For some reason Jaws has always been a Chiefs guy. I don't know why, but I like it.

He has been since Vermeil. And of course he played with Herm...

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-27-2008, 11:50 PM
I'm sorry but I don't like the 3rd round picks. We should have shored up our OL not gotten back ups.

DaJuan Morgan is already our best safety. The guy may be the most talented safety in the draft. He's a special player.

Jamaal Charles is exactly what our team needs.

Sometimes I think that people just assume that a football team is 22 players plus a kicker, punter, return man, and a long snapper. It's not. You need guys like Charles, and he fills a vital role that is far more important than just a backup.

He's going to be our third down back, and he can gash defenses with his speed. I guarantee you that he's got more breakaway speed than maybe any back but Chris Johnson (even if McFadden's 40 was faster).

keg in kc
04-27-2008, 11:54 PM
I like Charles, but he's not a real physical player, and I think he's going to have to work his ass off on the blocking if they really do plan to use him at all on 3rd down.

'course, that said, LJ doesn't exactly stand people up, either...

Ari Chi3fs
04-27-2008, 11:57 PM
Jaws will never do it. He's part of the secret Herm Edwards fan club. I'm President. Our motto is "At the end of the day, you play to win the game."


So, when was the moment where you flip-flopped from HERM WARFARE president... to Secret Herm Edwards Fan club?

Was it the playoff loss to the Colts that won you over? Or was it the 4-12 season?

Can you pinpoint the precise moment that made you swoon from left to right?

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2008, 11:57 PM
DaJuan Morgan is already our best safety. The guy may be the most talented safety in the draft. He's a special player.

Jamaal Charles is exactly what our team needs.

Sometimes I think that people just assume that a football team is 22 players plus a kicker, punter, return man, and a long snapper. It's not. You need guys like Charles, and he fills a vital role that is far more important than just a backup.

He's going to be our third down back, and he can gash defenses with his speed. I guarantee you that he's got more breakaway speed than maybe any back but Chris Johnson (even if McFadden's 40 was faster).

QFT

Dumbf*cks

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2008, 11:58 PM
I like Charles, but he's not a real physical player, and I think he's going to have to work his ass off on the blocking if they really do plan to use him at all on 3rd down.

'course, that said, LJ doesn't exactly stand people up, either...

Tiki Barber, jr.

DaneMcCloud
04-27-2008, 11:59 PM
For some reason Jaws has always been a Chiefs guy. I don't know why, but I like it.

Maybe because Carl Peterson drafted him?

Maybe because Dick Vermeil coached him?

Maybe because Carl Peterson gave him a job in 1989 when no one else would?

Or maybe he's just being loyal to friends.

Douche Baggins
04-28-2008, 12:04 AM
So, when was the moment where you flip-flopped from HERM WARFARE president... to Secret Herm Edwards Fan club?

Was it the playoff loss to the Colts that won you over? Or was it the 4-12 season?

Can you pinpoint the precise moment that made you swoon from left to right?

Probably the 49ers game.

BigRedChief
04-28-2008, 12:06 AM
DaJuan Morgan is already our best safety. The guy may be the most talented safety in the draft. He's a special player.

Jamaal Charles is exactly what our team needs.

Sometimes I think that people just assume that a football team is 22 players plus a kicker, punter, return man, and a long snapper. It's not. You need guys like Charles, and he fills a vital role that is far more important than just a backup.

He's going to be our third down back, and he can gash defenses with his speed. I guarantee you that he's got more breakaway speed than maybe any back but Chris Johnson (even if McFadden's 40 was faster).
Valid points. Not disputing tthe picks on the basis that they suck. I'm saying that OL was a greater need and we could have used the last 3 rounder and the 5th rounder to pick one of the guys that I listed.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-28-2008, 12:20 AM
Valid points. Not disputing tthe picks on the basis that they suck. I'm saying that OL was a greater need and we could have used the last 3 rounder and the 5th rounder to pick one of the guys that I listed.

Hey man, I wasn't a big fan of the Cottam pick, but I understand why you'd be enticed by him. Were I the Chiefs, I would have probably gone Reggie Smith, Zuttah, and then Morgan just based upon drafting BPA.

The only thing that sucked about that round is that Ellis went before our first pick, Smith right before our second, and Doucet right before our third. But we didn't panic.

With that being said, Morgan is still a great player, Charles fills a definitive need and was good value there (Detroit should have taken him @ the top of the round if they wanted a RB), and Cottam has great potential.

The reason why I think they passed on Zuttah is that they like what they have with Niswanger and Taylor, and given that we also picked up Albert and Richardson, you can't say that the cupboard is bare. We aren't going to trot out asshats like Svitek, Welbourne, Terry, and Turley this year. The o-line is already immensely more talented, healthier, and younger.

BigRedChief
04-28-2008, 12:25 AM
Hey man, I wasn't a big fan of the Cottam pick, but I understand why you'd be enticed by him. Were I the Chiefs, I would have probably gone Reggie Smith, Zuttah, and then Morgan just based upon drafting BPA.

The only thing that sucked about that round is that Ellis went before our first pick, Smith right before our second, and Doucet right before our third. But we didn't panic.

With that being said, Morgan is still a great player, Charles fills a definitive need and was good value there (Detroit should have taken him @ the top of the round if they wanted a RB), and Cottam has great potential.

The reason why I think they passed on Zuttah is that they like what they have with Niswanger and Taylor, and given that we also picked up Albert and Richardson, you can't say that the cupboard is bare. We aren't going to trot out asshats like Svitek, Welbourne, Terry, and Turley this year. The o-line is already immensely more talented, healthier, and younger.
Jeremy Zuttah out of Boston College
Cody Wallace out of Texas A&M
Anthony Collins out of Kansas
Tony Hills out of Texas
Ray Shuenning out of Orgon State
Carl Nicks out of Nebraska

Any of those would have been okay with me.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-28-2008, 12:31 AM
Jeremy Zuttah out of Boston College
Cody Wallace out of Texas A&M
Anthony Collins out of Kansas
Tony Hills out of Texas
Ray Shuenning out of Orgon State
Carl Nicks out of Nebraska

Any of those would have been okay with me.

Considering that every one of those guys, save for Zuttah was available after we made our 4th round pick, we did a good job maximizing value and not drafting based upon a perceived need.

Nicks was banned from his own pro day by his coach.

I look at a guy like Anthony Collins or Tony Hills and compare him to Barry Richardson, and I don't really see a difference. In fact, Richardson is more naturally gifted and was had 3 round beyond where you wanted these guys to go.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-28-2008, 12:34 AM
For what it's worth, this poll is completely ignorant because it's oblivious to the fact that this is a multi-year rebuild. This line is patchwork *this year*.

Douche Baggins
04-28-2008, 12:39 AM
For what it's worth, this poll is completely ignorant because it's oblivious to the fact that this is a multi-year rebuild. This line is patchwork *this year*.

Other players are irrelevant in my opinion.

If these three picks don't pan out we traded Allen for nothing.

tiptap
04-28-2008, 06:19 AM
The answer depends upon how badly the defensive line degrades. Can Dorsey's presence improve Hali's numbers? Can our new 7th round DE be a presence on the right side?

Since the predicate of this team is that you have to have ball control on the offense, than I don't see how the line is any worse than last year. And I have a great deal of confidence that by year's end it will begin to find a personality. And since even with a better overall defense we weren't going to the SB, I go with the trade.

the Talking Can
04-28-2008, 06:30 AM
and the clock strikes midnight, the whining resumes....

tmax63
04-28-2008, 07:12 AM
I've heard many of the learned brethren say here that it takes a couple of years for d-line to develop with exceptions of course. We have a couple that got their feet wet last year and should be improved. Dorsey is an exception. I fully expect him to be a beast this year. We won't have 1 guy with 15 sacks but I can see Hali with 8-10 and the rest with 3-5 each. I just don't see a huge drop on the d-line. After seeing what we got with JA's draft picks I like the trade now. If the Chiefs had stunk it up draft day I might of felt differently but, as of the day after the draft, I think the prognosis has improved both this fall and long term.

Pestilence
04-28-2008, 07:37 AM
If we still had Jared Allen, I feel that we wouldn't have drafted Dorsey even if he fell to us. You would have seen a trade with the Saints because the FO wanted more picks.

bsp4444
04-28-2008, 08:20 AM
Other players are irrelevant in my opinion.

If these three picks don't pan out we traded Allen for nothing.

Which is exactly what we would have got when Allen left after this year. Do you honestly believe he was worth the money the Vikings gave him? There's no way we could have afforded that.

the Talking Can
04-28-2008, 08:29 AM
Other players are irrelevant in my opinion.

If these three picks don't pan out we traded Allen for nothing.

you still don't understand what we're doing....

these picks are important beyond the players chosen, these picks gave us the confidence/luxury of drafting for value and not reaching...

the only goal is to build a complete team that can compete for a Superbowl...if we do that then the trade was a success regardless of what you think of any individual player....

this kind of score keeping is just latent True Fan anxiety...

Chief_in_Commander
04-28-2008, 08:35 AM
you still don't understand what we're doing....

these picks are important beyond the players chosen, these picks gave us the confidence/luxury of drafting for value and not reaching...

the only goal is to build a complete team that can compete for a Superbowl...if we do that then the trade was a success regardless of what you think of any individual player....

this kind of score keeping is just latent True Fan anxiety...

exactly, our draft outlook was completley effected by the ja trade. Us just drafting good players and not reaching for anybody is what made it a good draft. There was absolutely no reason to pay ja the kinda money minnesota did and we got 3 players for someone who was leaving next year anyway........win win

the Talking Can
04-28-2008, 08:38 AM
exactly, our draft outlook was completley effected by the ja trade. Us just drafting good players and not reaching for anybody is what made it a good draft. There was absolutely no reason to pay ja the kinda money minnesota did and we got 3 players for someone who was leaving next year anyway........win win

and we have 30 mill in FA money to spend

people forget...whoever we sign counts in the trade, because that money would have been locked up in Jared Allen

the reality is we got 3 draft picks and 2-3 future FAs....

p.s.

welcome to the planet

noa
04-28-2008, 08:43 AM
Where's the option for having a sick line for one year, then watching JA walk for nothing because we don't want to spend that kind of guaranteed money on him?

Chiefnj2
04-28-2008, 08:43 AM
To some people, if the Chiefs had not traded Allen then Herm and Carl would have used a draft chart compiled by Matt Millen, but rejected at the last minute by Millen because it was too stupid. It makes them feel better about a DL that has Boone as a defensive end.

noa
04-28-2008, 08:45 AM
Having Boone as a DE isn't ideal at all, but we can't fix everything all at once.

StcChief
04-28-2008, 08:49 AM
we are rebuilding....JA and his $$$ demands push him out.

Basileus777
04-28-2008, 08:52 AM
Jeremy Zuttah out of Boston College

He's from Rutgers.

Don't make me go around saying Will Franklin is from Kansas.

royr17
04-28-2008, 09:29 AM
The long term replacement for Tony G is already on the team his name is Michael Allan.

HemiEd
04-28-2008, 09:33 AM
How did the Allen trade affect Dorsey falling?

I wonder what we would have done if we hadn't traded Allen though. Having the 17th pick gave us the flexibility to go BPA and take Dorsey. If we didn't make the trade we probably would have traded down and taken Clady.

I agree with this 100%. I am all aboard the Allen trade now, no longer upset about it.

HemiEd
04-28-2008, 09:40 AM
If we don't trade Allen, and Dorsey falls to 5 (I don't see why he wouldn't have...), I don't think we draft him.

Why do I believe that? Because without that 17th pick, we don't have any possibility at all of getting both Dorsey and Albert, and in that situation, I think they ultimately decide to fill the greater need in Albert. So that extra pick, in my opinion, is what got us Dorsey.

And I think this is probably a whole different draft top-to-bottom if it goes that way. There was a weird kind of momentum for us. A synchronicity. Things just fell our way, and it started with Dorsey. They (literally) got every player they wanted yesterday (I don't know how many people caught this, but apparently Herm told Jaworski the 3 guys we wanted just before the draft started, and we got every one of them...), and that just doesn't happen if Jared's on this roster. It can't happen, because we don't have the picks...

So, personally, I take the draft. I think Dorsey and Albert (and Flowers) are more important to this team than Allen would have been.I agree with your observation. I found it surprising that Herm told a member of the media who they wanted, ahead of time. Fortunately, Jaws has some integrity.

HemiEd
04-28-2008, 10:12 AM
The long term replacement for Tony G is already on the team his name is Michael Allan.

:) Seriously? You really believe he is the guy? What makes you think so?

vailpass
04-28-2008, 10:19 AM
DaJuan Morgan is already our best safety. The guy may be the most talented safety in the draft. He's a special player.

Jamaal Charles is exactly what our team needs.

Sometimes I think that people just assume that a football team is 22 players plus a kicker, punter, return man, and a long snapper. It's not. You need guys like Charles, and he fills a vital role that is far more important than just a backup.
He's going to be our third down back, and he can gash defenses with his speed. I guarantee you that he's got more breakaway speed than maybe any back but Chris Johnson (even if McFadden's 40 was faster).

Just curious: did you play any football in high school? College?

PGM
04-28-2008, 12:49 PM
DaJuan Morgan is already our best safety. The guy may be the most talented safety in the draft. He's a special player.

Jamaal Charles is exactly what our team needs.

Sometimes I think that people just assume that a football team is 22 players plus a kicker, punter, return man, and a long snapper. It's not. You need guys like Charles, and he fills a vital role that is far more important than just a backup.

He's going to be our third down back, and he can gash defenses with his speed. I guarantee you that he's got more breakaway speed than maybe any back but Chris Johnson (even if McFadden's 40 was faster).

thank you....depth and rotations are something most fans over look...heck look at the giants. they rotate running backs and D line and won a superbowl with it.

Infidel Goat
04-28-2008, 01:07 PM
Can Dorsey's presence improve Hali's numbers?

Yes.

Plus, Hali will be on the right side of the line--which means that he'll be coming from the blindside of most QBs. It's a lot harder to sack a QB when he sees you coming. Hali's number should definitely improve.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-28-2008, 02:50 PM
Just curious: did you play any football in high school? College?

Yeah...why??

Mecca
04-28-2008, 02:59 PM
Don't expect Boone to start at end that was before they drafted and signed some ends.

Douche Baggins
04-28-2008, 03:01 PM
Don't expect Boone to start at end that was before they drafted and signed some ends.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Johnston win the RE job in camp...