Obama's chickens coming home...to roost

[memyselfI]

The past five days there has been lots of talk about Baarack's pastor disaster. Lots of wondering why, why now, why at all. I think it's because, as I've been saying for weeks, Baarack has been presenting himself as someone he isn't. He's a chameleon and that his 'blank screen' approach is masking beliefs and views that moderates would find unappealing. I think it is because Jerry and Louie feel that Obama is selling his soul to get elected.

Think about it. He has had to move to the right and appeal to the whites to get nominated. Rev. Wright and Louie are about being black without reservation and taking pride in that belief. They see Baarack selling out his principles and beliefs to become something he ISN'T in order to get elected.

That means, they see him becoming more moderate and more latte liberal than he has actually presented himself to them and within the black community over the past twenty years. As such, he is appealing to more whites but he is also changing his tune within the black community.

Frankly, I think blacks like Rev. Wright and Louie would rather him lose than the first black president be one who has so shunned his roots that he is no longer recognizable to them. Think about how liberal and radical Michelle is. Are you going to tell me that Obama has circulated within these circles all of these years and he was the lone moderate in the midst?

Nope. They want him to be who he is or they want him to lose. I think it is a more noble view than actually wanting him to sell himself out just to win. Of course, it will not be seen that way by the MSM who will try to play this as them trying to sabatoge the Messiah. But I think in some ways they are trying to save himself from himself.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=78049&stc=1&d=1209840858

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/4/29/f_NYNYPm_d256af6.jpg

[KC Jones]

:rolleyes:


Obama is just as much white as he is black
Move to the right? I thought everybody knew you have to play to the party extremes during the nomination process and you only move back to the mainstream for the general election.
Louie? Is this your pet name for Farakhan? You think the world should give a crap what that miserable piece of shit says?
I don't think Obama is selling out - but Wright is. He see's an opportunity to get himself up there with Sharpton and make a lot of money.

[memyselfI]

:rolleyes:


Obama is just as much white as he is black
Move to the right? I thought everybody knew you have to play to the party extremes during the nomination process and you only move back to the mainstream for the general election.
Louie? Is this your pet name for Farakhan? You think the world should give a crap what that miserable piece of shit says?
I don't think Obama is selling out - but Wright is. He see's an opportunity to get himself up there with Sharpton and make a lot of money.


Duh, that is my point. But in their eyes he's playing too much to the white side of his being and they will not tolerate that betrayal. Just as his move to the center will not be tolerated.

See Wright's promise to go 'after' his disciple on Nov. 5th for his being part of the government that is grinding how the man.

[Taco John]

Yeah, KC Jones. Duh.

Can't you see that Barack Obama is a black man who is proud of being black? It's plain as day for anyone willing to examine her point.

Surely this will cost him the election when the white people find out about it.

[memyselfI]

Yeah, KC Jones. Duh.

Can't you see that Barack Obama is a black man who is proud of being black? It's plain as day for anyone willing to examine her point.

Surely this will cost him the election when the white people find out about it.

Actually, my point was that Wright and Louie don't think he's acting that way at all. BO has thrown the two of them under the bus and all they've done (in their eyes) is give their lives in service and work to improve the lives of black people. They've not become more white to be accepted by white America. If anything, they've resisted and have pride in that resistance.

I believe this is what Rev. Wright is saying when he angrily describes Baarack's actions and words as being 'political' in nature. He won't come out and say he's selling himself out to whites and/or moderates. He's using code words instead.

[StcChief]

Actually, my point was that Wright and Louie don't think he's acting that way at all. BO has thrown the two of them under the bus and all they've done (in their eyes) is give their lives in service and work to improve the lives of black people. They've not become more white to be accepted by white America. If anything, they've resisted and have pride in that resistance.

I believe this is what Rev. Wright is saying when he angrily describes Baarack's actions and words as being 'political' in nature. He won't come out and say he's selling himself out to whites and/or moderates. He's using code words instead. yeah, he's trying to win the DNC nomination
and then become POTUS..... needs to pander to white vote. minorities alone won't get it done.

[memyselfI]

yeah, he's trying to win the DNC nomination
and then become POTUS..... needs to pander to white vote. minorities alone won't get it done.

And it would be ok if he did this WITHOUT throwing his roots and his past under the bus as if there is something wrong with who he was and who they still are...

but he didn't do it that way. THAT is what has them mad as hell. That is why Jerry is embracing Louie and giving Baarack a preview of what lies ahead if he's elected.

I bet they end up being harsher critics and a bigger nemesis than any one on the 'right' would be.

[memyselfI]

Here ya go, Taco. More reason for you to neg rep me for being 'racist.'

OOOPs, now it's Sharpton dissing BO. Everywhere we look prominent black leaders are having Obuyers remorse. You can't tell me that this is a coinky dinky.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04292008/news/regionalnews/sharpton_raps_obama_108577.htm

SHARPTON RAPS OBAMA
By CHUCK BENNETT and KAVITA MOKHA

April 29, 2008 --

Barack Obama made a call for nonviolence in the aftermath of the Sean Bell verdict - infuriating the Rev. Al Sharpton, who accused the presidential candidate of trying to "grandstand in front of white people," sources told The Post.

During what a source described as a "heated" phone call yesterday, Sharpton told Obama he was disappointed with the Illinois senator's words on Friday, when Obama said "resorting to violence to express displeasure" was "completely unacceptable and counterproductive."


"[Obama] issues this statement and not a single rock had been thrown," said a source. "How does the candidate of change ask people to accept a verdict that is unjust?"

The source said Sharpton had hoped Obama would "side with the Bell family" and not use it as an "opportunity to grandstand in front of white people."

An Obama spokesman described the conversation as a chance to "hear [Sharpton's] views and to get his perspective."

Sharpton ratcheted up the pressure on federal prosecutors yesterday by bringing Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.), chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, to Kalua, the Queens strip club where the Nov. 25, 2006 shooting took place.

"We are going to put together a federal strategy on how to deal with the case," Conyers said.

Also yesterday, Queens Supreme Court Justice Arthur Cooperman, who rendered the not-guilty verdict, refused to comment on his decision.

"He said what he had to say on the bench," his law clerk said.

[Chief Faithful]

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/columnists/louis/index.html

Obama is getting torpedo'd by his own "friends".

It will be interesting to see if the majority of American's will put up with Obama's friends making this Presidential election about race. Whitely is a sensitive creature and is tired of being the target of every angry and sarcastic remark blaming them for every evil in the black community. Obama's friends are going to turn off a significant portion of his voting base in key states if they don't stay out of the politics.

Hillary may just yet steal the nomination from Obama. When you have friends like Obama does who needs enemies.

[Radar Chief]

Here ya go, Taco. More reason for you to neg rep me for being 'racist.'

:LOL: ROFL

[penguinz]

You are racist. It is very evident by your wording in the thread starter.

[memyselfI]

You are racist. It is very evident by your wording in the thread starter.

ROFL

Using Rev. Wright's quote to describe Baarack's current situation is racist. OMG. That is hysterical. ROFL

[StcChief]

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/columnists/louis/index.html

Obama is getting torpedo'd by his own "friends".

It will be interesting to see if the majority of American's will put up with Obama's friends making this Presidential election about race. Whitely is a sensitive creature and is tired of being the target of every angry and sarcastic remark blaming them for every evil in the black community. Obama's friends are going to turn off a significant portion of his voting base in key states if they don't stay out of the politics.

Hillary may just yet steal the nomination from Obama. When you have friends like Obama does who needs enemies.
and then plame 'whitey' for keeping them down.... when they lose.

[penguinz]

ROFL

Using Rev. Wright's quote to describe Baarack's current situation is racist. OMG. That is hysterical. ROFL
What is hysterical is how ignorant you are. I said the thread starter, not the title.

[jettio]

It all depends on what voters do. Hillary was a slight favorite in Indiana. If Obama makes up ground and wins Indiana, then the nomination battle is over.

OTOH, If Hillary scores an upset in North Carolina, Obama will have to fight hard to keep the nomination that he has earned by winning the delegate count, because the polls in June might then matter, if Hillary polls much better than Obama in June.

More likely than not, voters will understand that Obama is running for President and not Wright. Also by the time June rolls around, Hillary might be the one having to put out fires, because it looks like the media likes to keep the battle going in order for them to make money.

My guess will be that the voters in North Carolina and Indiana will pay more attention to the candidates and will vote based on that.

[ChiefaRoo]

I hate big whitey......

[dirk digler]

I will not disagree with everything Denise said but I think there is some truth in the matter that some of these black leaders don't believe Obama is "black enough". They even suggested that last year.

What they have to understand is when you are running for POTUS you are running to represent everyone not just their race or gender.

Some of the things that Wright said were offensive to alot of people and since he was his pastor he has to answer for Wright said. He even said that on Fox News the other day that this was an acceptable political question.

Apparently Obama is going to have a big PC today to discuss and hopefully put this to bed as much as possible. But I do believe in part that the Wright tour this week may have helped Obama a little. It is now seen by many people including conservatives, that Wright is on an ego trip and trying to extend his 15 minutes of fame.

[Sully]

I'm not sure (okay...I'm a little sure ;)) Why Farrakahn, or even Sharpton are even a part of the Obama discussion, other than they are public black figures. Farrakahn endorsed Obama, and Obama turned it down, but I don't know of any relationship between the two, otherwise. Also, Sharpton has been against Obama from the beginning. This isn't a new development, at all.

[bkkcoh]

Obama stating that Rev. Wright's opinions offend Obama.

:hmmm: Stay tuned, I am positive this isn't going to be the end of it.

[memyselfI]

Obamessiah wasn't too upset all day yesterday. He wasn't upset last evening. Then all of a sudden, he's outraged...:spock:

It's the politician, stupid. :doh!:

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=d4d1bc7e-32d4-438e-8143-75c8b25b3435


In North Carolina, Clinton Closes To Within 5 Of Obama: In a Democratic Primary in North Carolina today, 04/29/08, one week till votes are counted, the 10-point lead that Barack Obama has had for two months is halved, to now 5 points, Obama 49%, Clinton 44%, according to SurveyUSA's 7th tracking poll, conducted exclusively for WTVD-TV Raleigh

[Deberg_1990]

Obama not "keeping it real" with the homies???

[memyselfI]

Obama not "keeping it real" with the homies???

He was last month. ROFL

For the men and women of Rev. Wright's generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years.

That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician's own failings.

And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews. The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Rev. Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning.

That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change.

But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.

[HonestChieffan]

But its not a "race thing"

[memyselfI]

But its not a "race thing"

It's the politics, stupid.

[patteeu]

Jeremiah Wright told us that we can't believe anything Obama says. Wright tells us in his Press Club Q&A session that Obama says what he needs to say to get elected just like a typical politician. That's quite an indictment coming from a 20 year acquaintance who is "like family".

[memyselfI]

Jeremiah Wright told us that we can't believe anything Obama says. Wright tells us in his Press Club Q&A session that Obama says what he needs to say to get elected just like a typical politician. That's quite an indictment coming from a 20 year acquaintance who is "like family".

Baarack is such a liar. He denied today that Rev. Wright was ever his spiritual advisor. And yet he previously said:

"What I value most about Pastor Wright is not his day-to-day political advice," Obama said. "He's much more of a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking as truthfully about what I believe as possible and that I'm not losing myself in some of the hype and hoopla and stress that's involved in national politics."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?page=1

So we are supposed to believe that he didn't really know this man's views and had never before heard the type of words Wright said yesterday but he trusted the guy as his truth monitor???? :spock:

[SBK]

Jeremiah Wright told us that we can't believe anything Obama says. Wright tells us in his Press Club Q&A session that Obama says what he needs to say to get elected just like a typical politician. That's quite an indictment coming from a 20 year acquaintance who is "like family".

No it's not, only people that listen to a second of Wright are hyenas.....

[dirk digler]

Baarack is such a liar. He denied today that Rev. Wright was ever his spiritual advisor. And yet he previously said:



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?page=1

So we are supposed to believe that he didn't really know this man's views and had never before heard the type of words Wright said yesterday but he trusted the guy as his truth monitor???? :spock:

IF we were to believe Rev Wright like Patteeu suggests then Obama is right. Because Wright said he was never his spiritual advisor.

OBAMA: There has been great damage. It may have been unintentional on his part, but I do not see that relationship being the same after this.
Now, to some degree, I know that one thing that he said was true, that he was never my, quote/quote, “spiritual advisor.” He was never my spiritual mentor. He was my pastor. And to some extent how the press characterized in the past that relationship, I think, was inaccurate.
But he was somebody who was my pastor, and he married Michelle and I, and baptized my children, and prayed with us when we announced this race, and so I’m disappointed.

WRIGHT: The governmental leaders, those — as I said to Barack Obama, my member — I am a pastor, he’s a member. I’m not a spiritual mentor, guru. I’m his pastor.
And I said to Barack Obama, last year, “If you get elected, November the 5th, I’m coming after you, because you’ll be representing a government whose policies grind under people.” All right? It’s about policy, not the American people.

[HolmeZz]

CCW is hilarious. She quotes one poll where Obama's lost a total of 4 points in NC, but not the other two polls that show him up 12 and 14 points.

I mean this is the nicest way possible: drop dead, you rotten bitch.

[patteeu]

Baarack is such a liar. He denied today that Rev. Wright was ever his spiritual advisor. And yet he previously said:



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?page=1

So we are supposed to believe that he didn't really know this man's views and had never before heard the type of words Wright said yesterday but he trusted the guy as his truth monitor???? :spock:

It's well beyond the point of believability. But it's obvious from many of the posts around here that love really is blind.

[patteeu]

IF we were to believe Rev Wright like Patteeu suggests then Obama is right. Because Wright said he was never his spiritual advisor.

If Obama is more agnostic than believer as I've always suspected, it makes sense that Wright isn't his spiritual advisor, technically speaking.

Having said that, I'm not sure how you get from what I said to the conclusion you draw above. The whole splitting of hairs between pastor and spiritual advisor and spiritual mentor is pretty silly. Any port in a storm though.

[memyselfI]

IF we were to believe Rev Wright like Patteeu suggests then Obama is right. Because Wright said he was never his spiritual advisor.

Rev. Wright is objecting to the term 'spiritual advisor' because he equates it with 'guru' or some other type of cult leader and NOT because he is running away from the spiritual guidance he gave to BO. He pointedly makes the distinction between advisor and pastor.

Baarack, OTOH, said Rev. Wright was his spiritual advisor when he was writing books and trying to assimilate into the black community. But when Wright became politically wrong all of a sudden he was never such an influence to the Messiah? Nevermind, he says in his books and in previous interviews that Wright acted as such an influence.

So which one is it?

[Deberg_1990]

Baarack is such a liar. He denied today that Rev. Wright was ever his spiritual advisor. And yet he previously said:



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?page=1

So we are supposed to believe that he didn't really know this man's views and had never before heard the type of words Wright said yesterday but he trusted the guy as his truth monitor???? :spock:


Its about damn time he threw that turd under the bus!

[memyselfI]

Its about damn time he threw that turd under the bus!

March 18, 2008 he said he couldn't denounce Wright anymore than he could the black community. I wonder if some in that community will feel he's done both. :hmmm:

[Deberg_1990]

March 18, 2008 he said he couldn't denounce Wright anymore than he could the black community. I wonder if some in that community will feel he's done both. :hmmm:


He was pretty much forced to do this. Its the only way "Whitey" will vote for him.

White moderates are the only chance he has to win the election.

[dirk digler]

If Obama is more agnostic than believer as I've always suspected, it makes sense that Wright isn't his spiritual advisor, technically speaking.

Having said that, I'm not sure how you get from what I said to the conclusion you draw above. The whole splitting of hairs between pastor and spiritual advisor and spiritual mentor is pretty silly. Any port in a storm though.

My only point is that you seem to want to take Rev Wright at his word so I am holding you to that.

He said he wasn't Obama's spiritual advisor just his pastor.

My view of a spiritual advisor is someone that you talk to on a regular basis about God or whatever but a pastor is someone you only see when you go to a church. Of course I could be completely wrong since I don't go to church or have a spiritual advisor. Someone more qualified can speak to that.

Anyway this was or is very damaging to Obama and we will find out in a week whether or not it had any impact. He wins then he survived if he loses both states then he is done IMO and that is sad because we will be stuck with either Hillary or McCain.

[Taco John]

I understand today why it's going to be hard for a black man to ever become president.

[memyselfI]

He was pretty much forced to do this. Its the only way "Whitey" will vote for him.

White moderates are the only chance he has to win the election.

I've heard some good theories on how this was all staged. Baarack and Wright had previously discussed and agreed upon the need to do this. David Axelrod hired a PR campaign to help Wright and his church deal with the Wright situation. The Messiah needs to show he's distancing himself from bad things in his past in order to appease the white vote...

the math adds up. Whether it is or not I guess we might know depending on Wright's next move. If he goes off quietly into the wilderness then I would bet this theory is correct. If he speaks out and perpetuates the story then I would bet not.

In a New York Times profile of the Obama-Wright relationship in April 2007, Wright himself predicted such a split based on the controversial remarks that were already under some scrutiny. “If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me,” Wright told the paper over a year ago. “I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen.”

Whether Obama’s strong words of denunciation today were sincere or “political posturing” will be decided by the remaining Democratic primary voters, the party’s superdelegates and, perhaps, the national electorate. But it’s not a discussion that is likely to disappear entirely from the public’s consciousness.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/29/politics/main4056166.shtml

[vailpass]

I understand today why it's going to be hard for a black man to ever become president.

Because there is no 'chicken & waffles' option on the White House menu?

[dirk digler]

Here ya go, Taco. More reason for you to neg rep me for being 'racist.'

OOOPs, now it's Sharpton dissing BO. Everywhere we look prominent black leaders are having Obuyers remorse. You can't tell me that this is a coinky dinky.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04292008/news/regionalnews/sharpton_raps_obama_108577.htm

SHARPTON RAPS OBAMA
By CHUCK BENNETT and KAVITA MOKHA


Oops Sharpton all but endorses Obama tonight on Larry King. Called him brilliant and courageous and criticized Clinton several times.

It appears from the SD's perspective and Democrats is that the war vote is going to be the deciding factor. They are going to really hold it against her for voting with Bush and I think that will ultimately kill her chances.

[Bootlegged]

Because there is no 'chicken & waffles' option on the White House menu?

Nicely played.

[memyselfI]

Oops Sharpton all but endorses Obama tonight on Larry King. Called him brilliant and courageous and criticized Clinton several times.

It appears from the SD's perspective and Democrats is that the war vote is going to be the deciding factor. They are going to really hold it against her for voting with Bush and I think that will ultimately kill her chances.

Well that is going help with the white vote, isn't it. :doh!: ;)

[patteeu]

He was pretty much forced to do this. Its the only way "Whitey" will vote for him.

White moderates are the only chance he has to win the election.

That's the act of a political wind vane, not a man of principle, right?

[HolmeZz]

That's the act of a political wind vane, not a man of principle, right?

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over all that irony.

http://www.nypress.com/19/52/news&columns/52Follow-the-Leader.jpg

[patteeu]

My only point is that you seem to want to take Rev Wright at his word so I am holding you to that.

He said he wasn't Obama's spiritual advisor just his pastor.

My view of a spiritual advisor is someone that you talk to on a regular basis about God or whatever but a pastor is someone you only see when you go to a church. Of course I could be completely wrong since I don't go to church or have a spiritual advisor. Someone more qualified can speak to that.

Anyway this was or is very damaging to Obama and we will find out in a week whether or not it had any impact. He wins then he survived if he loses both states then he is done IMO and that is sad because we will be stuck with either Hillary or McCain.

It's very possible to believe someone on some things without believing everything they say. When someone says something against their own interest or against a friend's interest, it's generally more credible than when they say something that is self-serving. So to begin with, the type of consistency that you're trying to impose on me is illogical.

Beyond that, whatever distinction Rev. Wright and Obama are drawing between "spiritual adviser" and "pastor" are distinctions that I don't recognize as such. When I use the term "spiritual adviser", I'm talking about a group that includes but isn't necessarily limited to a person's pastor. I'd tend to agree with memyselfi on this point. If Obama and Pastor Wright are in agreement on this issue, they are obviously using the term "spiritual adviser" in some other, much more restrictive sense. It's just another case of Obama using sleight of hand to snooker his hopeful followers. Reverend Wright was Obama's spiritual advisor by definition as far as I'm concerned.

[patteeu]

I understand today why it's going to be hard for a black man to ever become president.

A black conservative won't have the same problems that a black leftist does.

[StcChief]

A black conservative won't have the same problems that a black leftist does.
yeah..... they would have hated Colin Powell as much as Condie Rice.

[HolmeZz]

A black conservative won't have the same problems that a black leftist does.

They both share the very same problem. You'll never see either win the Republican Nomination in your lifetime.

[patteeu]

They both share the very same problem. You'll never see either win the Republican Nomination in your lifetime.

I plan on living forever so I'm going to disagree. :p

[memyselfI]

Oops Sharpton all but endorses Obama tonight on Larry King. Called him brilliant and courageous and criticized Clinton several times.

It appears from the SD's perspective and Democrats is that the war vote is going to be the deciding factor. They are going to really hold it against her for voting with Bush and I think that will ultimately kill her chances.

Looks like Al is talking out of both sides of his mouth.

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/agexed/leap/aee500/gomer11.jpg

Al Sharpton told the Times it's a matter of "standing by one's pastor." On Tuesday, he told Wright's daughter Jeri that her father need not worry about the mess, which was more about politics than his pastoral duties.

"Preserving his legacy is far more important than any candidacy," he told her.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/religion_theseeker/2007/03/hallelujah_bara.html

[memyselfI]

Ah, the polls released today. Current numbers with the previous numbers in parenthesis.


Survey USA
Obama +5 (+9)

Rasmussen
Obama +14 (+21)

PPP
Obama +12 (+25)

[Taco John]

A black conservative won't have the same problems that a black leftist does.


Wanna bet?

[Logical]

It's very possible to believe someone on some things without believing everything they say. When someone says something against their own interest or against a friend's interest, it's generally more credible than when they say something that is self-serving. So to begin with, the type of consistency that you're trying to impose on me is illogical.

Beyond that, whatever distinction Rev. Wright and Obama are drawing between "spiritual adviser" and "pastor" are distinctions that I don't recognize as such. When I use the term "spiritual adviser", I'm talking about a group that includes but isn't necessarily limited to a person's pastor. I'd tend to agree with memyselfi on this point. If Obama and Pastor Wright are in agreement on this issue, they are obviously using the term "spiritual adviser" in some other, much more restrictive sense. It's just another case of Obama using sleight of hand to snooker his hopeful followers. Reverend Wright was Obama's spiritual advisor by definition as far as I'm concerned.You are on record as saying you believe Obama is an Agnostic who was using his Church to get elected. Sorry you cannot now credibly argue that he had a Spiritual Adviser. Agnostic's do not have spiritual advisers.

[go bowe]

A black conservative won't have the same problems that a black leftist does.two words...

alan keyes...

ok, four words...

jc watts...

[Baby Lee]

two words...

alan keyes...

ok, four words...

jc watts...

That, in a nutshell, is what pisses me off about our current 'divide.'
Liberals can viscerally hate Alan Keyes, because he's a extremist nutjob, hypocrite, and asshole to boot [add incendiary adverbs at will].
But if a conservative fails to give him unflagging support, it's because he's a racist.

[memyselfI]

You are on record as saying you believe Obama is an Agnostic who was using his Church to get elected. Sorry you cannot now credibly argue that he had a Spiritual Adviser. Agnostic's do not have spiritual advisers.

Jim, you know better than this. Spirituality is NOT the same as religion. I consider myself a deeply spiritual person. I loathe organized religion. I don't believe in a traditional God and could be considered as agnostic.

[patteeu]

Wanna bet?

I would, except that we wouldn't have a good way of determining a winner. I don't think it's at all likely that a circa 2000 Colin Powell would have run into the same problems that Barack Obama has encountered. Not that Colin Powell is particularly conservative, but he would have been running as a Republican with a sterling military background and he wouldn't have had a Jeremiah Wright hanging around his neck.

You can't be a Colin Powell coming out of the leftist civil rights / urban community development world.

I wouldn't have been a Colin Powell voter in 2000 for the same reason I wasn't a George W. Bush voter then (i.e. I didn't see him as conservative enough for me), but he would have had overwhelming support among Republicans and independents would have gushed the same way they were gushing over Obama before they realized that he associates with people like Jeremiah Wright and other radical leftists.

[patteeu]

You are on record as saying you believe Obama is an Agnostic who was using his Church to get elected. Sorry you cannot now credibly argue that he had a Spiritual Adviser. Agnostic's do not have spiritual advisers.

I can't possibly know whether he's agnostic or not. I suspect it, but I have no way of being sure. But that's not the issue. Obama claims him as his spiritual advisor regardless of what terminology he prefers.

I already made the point that if Obama is agnostic, it can explain why he now denies that Wright was his spiritual adviser. But if he continues to claim to be a believer (as he does), his denial can only be seen as some kind of insincere hair-splitting based on a secret definition he has in his mind (much like Bull Clinton's denial that he ever had sex with "that woman").

[BucEyedPea]

I only saw this latest on Wright briefly last night because I was sick of hearing the same old story. But I have to say I was shocked that Obama's pastor would even make that press speech when he should have kept his mouth shut. What a betrayal.

I think the NC's, and that includes Hillary, are behind this as as set up to torpedo Obama's nomination even if she's still behind. As he is losing his lead in NC now she can make her case to the superdelegates that she's more electable....when she really isn't. He's the only candidates that is more anti-war that has a chance. So I think that's what's happening. Just off the top of my head and gut feel.

Then we get a NC versus a NC election and they win again. Cripes!

[Calcountry]

Actually, my point was that Wright and Louie don't think he's acting that way at all. BO has thrown the two of them under the bus and all they've done (in their eyes) is give their lives in service and work to improve the lives of black people. They've not become more white to be accepted by white America. If anything, they've resisted and have pride in that resistance.

I believe this is what Rev. Wright is saying when he angrily describes Baarack's actions and words as being 'political' in nature. He won't come out and say he's selling himself out to whites and/or moderates. He's using code words instead.
You are just a racist, that's all.

[Calcountry]

That, in a nutshell, is what pisses me off about our current 'divide.'
Liberals can viscerally hate Alan Keyes, because he's a extremist nutjob, hypocrite, and asshole to boot [add incendiary adverbs at will].
But if a conservative fails to give him unflagging support, it's because he's a racist.
You forgot "uncle tom or house N###"

[memyselfI]

You are just a racist, that's all.

Yeah, that must be why I don't support HIM. :rolleyes:

[penguinz]

Yeah, that must be why I don't support HIM. :rolleyes:You are racist because of the comments you have made. Not because you don't support Obama. Get a clue.

[memyselfI]

You are racist because of the comments you have made. Not because you don't support Obama. Get a clue.

BS. I don't trust this particular man. I have no problems voting for a politician of any race as long as they are authentic and have a modicum of integrity. Baarack has neither.

[penguinz]

I have no problems voting for a politician of any race.The way you word your posts says otherwise.

[penguinz]

I have no problems voting for a politician of any race as long as they are authentic and have a modicum of integrity. Yet you support Clinton.

[memyselfI]

The way you word your posts says otherwise.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. That doesn't make it fact.

[memyselfI]

Yet you support Clinton.

The devil you know...

[BIG_DADDY]

Yet you support Clinton.


Duh, she is a chick with a dick dude. Birds of a feather.

[memyselfI]

Looks like Baarack's problems might be just beginning...

http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/923055,CST-NWS-mitch30.article

Obama opens a can of worms
THE BLACK CHURCH | On the verge of making history, Obama opens a can of worms

April 30, 2008
Recommend (53)

MARY MITCHELL marym@suntimes.com

Well, it is likely that Sen. Barack Obama won't be going back to Trinity United Church of Christ.

Not after this.
» Click to enlarge image
Sun-Times columnist Mary Mitchell




On Tuesday, Obama responded to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's ill-timed defense by condemning his former pastor's fresh comments as "ridiculous," "outrageous" and "appalling."

"When he states and then amplifies such ridiculous proposition as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS, when he suggests that Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices in the 20th and 21st century, when he equates the United States wartime effort with terrorism, then there are no excuses," Obama said during a press conference.

"They offend me. They rightfully offend all Americans and they should be denounced," Obama said.

This is a sad day for Black America.

At a time when African Americans are on the cusp of watching a barrier come crashing down, up jumps a divisive issue that is being driven by those outside of the black community.

Obviously, Wright's timing for a press conference about his sermons couldn't have been worse.

Still, when Obama says he is "offended" by Wright's latest comments -- given in defense against an orchestrated assault on his character and on his ministry -- he's opening up a can of worms.

There is no institution in the black community more respected than the black church. And the notion that white pundits can dictate what constitutes unacceptable speech in the black church is repulsive to most black people.

Even so, after Wright's fiery speeches surfaced on the Internet, most African Americans understood why Obama had to distance himself from Wright.

Obama's cross-cultural appeal, which, by the way, made some blacks suspicious of him early in his campaign, is largely because of his ability to make white people feel comfortable with his blackness.

But Wright speaks to a different audience, and that audience has been supportive throughout his ordeal.

On Monday, for instance, when Wright spoke at the National Press Club, the predominantly black crowd cheered, clapped and punctuated Wright's speech with shouts of "amen."

So, when Obama says America was "offended" by Wright's harsh language, he isn't speaking for or to Black America. He is speaking to White America.

As much as I want to see Obama make history by becoming the first black man to be elected president, I don't want to see a warrior like Wright denigrated to prove to white voters that Obama is not a radical.

When Obama denounced Wright's angry words but refused to disown him, it signaled that he understood the sensitive tightrope he is being forced to walk.

His "outrage" over Wright's latest remarks signals something quite different. With the gap narrowing, Obama advisers are obviously scrambling for every white vote.

But really, what more should blacks have to sacrifice? Their dignity?

Frankly, Obama and Wright risk becoming metaphors for the ongoing struggle of blacks to unite politically.

Obama shouldn't have held a press conference to deal with Wright.

He should have been able to pick up the phone

[patteeu]

You are racist because of the comments you have made. Not because you don't support Obama. Get a clue.

Like what?

[Logical]

I can't possibly know whether he's agnostic or not. I suspect it, but I have no way of being sure. But that's not the issue. Obama claims him as his spiritual advisor regardless of what terminology he prefers.

I already made the point that if Obama is agnostic, it can explain why he now denies that Wright was his spiritual adviser. But if he continues to claim to be a believer (as he does), his denial can only be seen as some kind of insincere hair-splitting based on a secret definition he has in his mind (much like Bull Clinton's denial that he ever had sex with "that woman").

Having never been a church member of any congregation other than Catholic I am unable to relate to the idea of a Pastor on a personal experience level. However Catholics quite commonly do not personally know their Priests and have no actual spiritual adviser. They tend to have a series of different teachers of catechism that they never really get to know personally. As such I don't see the need for a Spiritual Adviser to be a Christian.

[patteeu]

Having never been a church member of any congregation other than Catholic I am unable to relate to the idea of a Pastor on a personal experience level. However Catholics quite commonly do not personally know their Priests and have no actual spiritual adviser. They tend to have a series of different teachers of catechism that they never really get to know personally. As such I don't see the need for a Spiritual Adviser to be a Christian.

What does that have to do with anything? A lot of people don't personally know their church pastors/priests/ministers. Obama *did* personally know his. We know this because he's told us that his was as close as family.

If you hit it off so well with your Catholic priest that he becomes an inspiration for your best selling book and if you give him personal credit for bringing you to Jesus, I think it's fair to describe him as a spiritual adviser.

[Logical]

sWhat does that have to do with anything? A lot of people don't personally know their church pastors/priests/ministers. Obama *did* personally know his. We know this because he's told us that his was as close as family.

If you hit it off so well with your Catholic priest that he becomes an inspiration for your best selling book and if you give him personal credit for bringing you to Jesus, I think it's fair to describe him as a spiritual adviser.Man you are running me in more circles than DEnise in full spin mode. He cannot have a spiritual adviser if he is an agnostic. If he used the Church to give him his Christian identity, then maybe he did not feel he had a spiritual adviser. Or maybe he feels that his former spiritual adviser no longer represents his overall views. All are possibilities. Life moves on no matter which option you choose.

[patteeu]

sMan you are running me in more circles than DEnise in full spin mode. He cannot have a spiritual adviser if he is an agnostic. If he used the Church to give him his Christian identity, then maybe he did not feel he had a spiritual adviser. Or maybe he feels that his former spiritual adviser no longer represents his overall views. All are possibilities. Life moves on no matter which option you choose.

There are two reasonable possibilities that I can think of. Either Obama is telling the truth about being led to Jesus and inspired spiritually by Wright in which case Wright is a spiritual adviser regardless of Obama's quibbling about the terminology OR Obama is lying about being a led to Jesus and being inspired spiritually by Wright. It's ridiculous how hard some of you Obamaphiles will stretch to avoid the obvious.

[memyselfI]

sMan you are running me in more circles than DEnise in full spin mode. He cannot have a spiritual adviser if he is an agnostic. If he used the Church to give him his Christian identity, then maybe he did not feel he had a spiritual adviser. Or maybe he feels that his former spiritual adviser no longer represents his overall views. All are possibilities. Life moves on no matter which option you choose.

Jim. I had a spiritual advisor as an agnostic. I became more open to Christianity while I was working with her closely. After she left for another state the appeal of the church and Christianity in general waned. But her important lesson to me was that it's about spiritual satiety of the soul and not about religion. She taught there were many paths that it was up to me to find the one that satiated my soul.

It is quite possible Baarack followed the same path. However, under my former pastor, I would have walked off a cliff for her. She was that influential and that much a force to be reckoned with. I spent over three years with her but she changed my life.

While I find Baarack's claims he didn't know about Rev. Wright's political views to be so completely disingenuous, it is quite possible that he used the church for it's sense of community and for the spiritual elements while not completely embracing the religion aspects of it. It's also quite possible he bonded with the pastor while remaining distant from the religion itself. Remember, the discussion we had about how liberal the UCC church is. Remember that thread about how I said it was as close to being an agnostic as a Christian church could be.

I tend to think it was a particular draw for Baarack that Rev. Wright was the father figure he never had. The fact Wright's master's degree was in Islam in Africa made Wright a particularly good figure to help the Messiah bridge his new 'Christian' religious identity from the atheist-Islamic upbringing he had.

[mlyonsd]

While I find Baarack's claims he didn't know about Rev. Wright's political views to be so completely disingenuous, it is quite possible that he used the church for it's sense of community and for the spiritual elements while not completely embracing the religion aspects of it. It's also quite possible he bonded with the pastor while remaining distant from the religion itself. Remember, the discussion we had about how liberal the UCC church is. Remember that thread about how I said it was as close to being an agnostic as a Christian church could be.



One other possibiity no one has mentioned yet is they might have had some killer church dinners after mass. Some of those ladys can really cook.

[memyselfI]

One other possibiity no one has mentioned yet is they might have had some killer church dinners after mass. Some of those ladys can really cook.

He's a hungry freeloader. That explains it!!! ROFL

[HonestChieffan]

Based on the polls they have been discussing on radio today, it sounds like the Obama Train has run off the track with his big negative move among affluent educated white voters in North Carolina. Even the Research Triangle area numbers have swung badly for Obama.

[StcChief]

Based on the polls they have been discussing on radio today, it sounds like the Obama Train has run off the track with his big negative move among affluent educated white voters in North Carolina. Even the Research Triangle area numbers have swung badly for Obama.the rest of America is waking up about Bark.