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View Full Version : Chiefs Was Herm Edwards a good PR choice for the Chiefs?


Wile_E_Coyote
04-30-2008, 11:24 AM
I know it's not easy, but set aside Herm's game day management. For a franchise that needs to rebuild & will be getting little to no media attention (people love a winner). Is Herm Edwards good for the Chiefs PR wise?

The media seems to love him.

Or is media attention over rated? Players come for the paycheck.

Let us wallow in this rebuild in solitude.

DV brought alot of attention KC's way

Basileus777
04-30-2008, 11:26 AM
Say what you want about Herm as a coach, but the players seem to genuinely like him. He's given us good press from the media, but I'm not really sure how important that is.

DTLB58
04-30-2008, 11:40 AM
Say what you want about Herm as a coach, but the players seem to genuinely like him. He's given us good press from the media, but I'm not really sure how important that is.

I don't think it matters at all for the good. I remember when DV left the media was slobbering all over him and making it such a huge deal that we were losing him. But I didn't hear one of them give the facts that with all his notoriety "at the end of the day" :D DV didn't win a playoff game with this team.

I think it will be the same with Herm, the media falls in love with his personality and they don't put the pressure on him as if they hated him and wanted him out.

So, in the end, if the coach is a faliure I think it hurts us that being a good PR person is one of his qualities.

Wile_E_Coyote
04-30-2008, 11:42 AM
I don't remember if Gunther was the laughing stock media wide. That he was on this BB.
Marty didn't really get the playoff choker tag until his KC run was about done/or after

Direckshun
04-30-2008, 11:50 AM
I hope to keep Herm around for the rest of his contract. (2009 season.)

After that, if we could replace him with a coach who has the exact same mentality (stockpile picks & build through the Draft, a la the Colts) but who doesn't have his head up his ass in-game, I'd be the happiest guy in the room.

I could care less about PR wise.

RedThat
04-30-2008, 11:52 AM
I don't like his coaching at all. Game management skills, the way he calls a game, makes us a bad team alone.

It seems as if Clark is putting a lot of hope and faith in Herm. So, we'll see how he does with guys Im hoping will be good players.

I think he would be excellent to work in the FO though. He does have the right idea in how a championship team is built imo. And I love it how he sticks with his board and drafts based on best value, rather then reach for need.

If it were me, I'd put him in the FO with Kuharich and Farmer. And Carl well I shouldn't go there....

Dylan
04-30-2008, 11:54 AM
"Was Herm Edwards a good PR choice for the Chiefs?"

ROFL

DaneMcCloud
04-30-2008, 12:00 PM
I don't like his coaching at all. Game management skills, the way he calls a game, makes us a bad team alone.

It seems as if Clark is putting a lot of hope and faith in Herm. So, we'll see how he does with guys Im hoping will be good players.

I think he would be excellent to work in the FO though. He does have the right idea in how a championship team is built imo. And I love it how he sticks with his board and drafts based on best value, rather then reach for need.

If it were me, I'd put him in the FO with Kuharich and Farmer. And Carl well I shouldn't go there....

Not to be argumentative (though, I guess I am), do you think that someone else could have coached the Chiefs to a 9-7 record in 2006, given the loss of Trent Green (and no serious replacement) and Willie Roaf (with no serious replacement)?

kc rush
04-30-2008, 12:12 PM
I don't like his coaching at all. Game management skills, the way he calls a game, makes us a bad team alone.

It seems as if Clark is putting a lot of hope and faith in Herm. So, we'll see how he does with guys Im hoping will be good players.

I think he would be excellent to work in the FO though. He does have the right idea in how a championship team is built imo. And I love it how he sticks with his board and drafts based on best value, rather then reach for need.

If it were me, I'd put him in the FO with Kuharich and Farmer. And Carl well I shouldn't go there....

Add to that his overall "Play not to lose" philosophy, it makes for a poor game day experience.

The media loves Herm because he's good for a quote, bound to open his mouth and say something stupid. Every time a public figure makes a stupid comment it gives the media something easy to talk about, they don't have to work as hard to fill broadcast time or column inches.

Is this good PR? The Chiefs are talked about year round locally and nationally, so I guess that is something. As a fan though, I tend to get angry every time I hear him talk (and talk and talk and talk and never shut up), so I've taken to turning the channel whenever he is on.

J Diddy
04-30-2008, 12:20 PM
Add to that his overall "Play not to lose" philosophy, it makes for a poor game day experience.

The media loves Herm because he's good for a quote, bound to open his mouth and say something stupid. Every time a public figure makes a stupid comment it gives the media something easy to talk about, they don't have to work as hard to fill broadcast time or column inches.

Is this good PR? The Chiefs are talked about year round locally and nationally, so I guess that is something. As a fan though, I tend to get angry every time I hear him talk (and talk and talk and talk and never shut up), so I've taken to turning the channel whenever he is on.


http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/78507099.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1937BD9AD37E51F906E89E6ED2D2CE1D173284831B75F48EF45

It's ok, it'll be alright

hush now

StcChief
04-30-2008, 12:21 PM
Well from a Media / NFL persective. Minor HC (draws minorities for viewing?), give NFL a point in the minor HC column, likes to talk with not much said.... so media can talk about him. Good PR? how about winning some games and completing the Chiefs turn around, then crow about accomplishments and your staff/mgmt that helped as team to get it done

Coogs
04-30-2008, 12:28 PM
I know I am in the minority around here, but I like Herm as a coach. I agree with his philosophy and everything. I like tough defense and smashmouth play action type of offense. Call me old school, but I just like that type of football. I think we are assembling the type of talent needed to make that type of system work as well. Both sides of the ball. And Herm has proven he can get teams to the playoffs on a fairly regular basis and win once he is there. He has just not won the big one yet. Very much like Dungy. And I wouldn't be surprised if he wins it all just as Dungy did. Might take 3 or 4 more years, but I really believe we are on the right path this time.

J Diddy
04-30-2008, 12:29 PM
Well from a Media / NFL persective. Minor HC (draws minorities for viewing?), give NFL a point in the minor HC column, likes to talk with not much said.... so media can talk about him. Good PR? how about winning some games and completing the Chiefs turn around, then crow about accomplishments and your staff/mgmt that helped as team to get it done


dude slow down...


we just won the draft
what more could you want?

J Diddy
04-30-2008, 12:29 PM
I know I am in the minority around here, but I like Herm as a coach. I agree with his philosophy and everything. I like tough defense and smashmouth play action type of offense. Call me old school, but I just like that type of football. I think we are assembling the type of talent needed to make that type of system work as well. Both sides of the ball. And Herm has proven he can get teams to the playoffs on a fairly regular basis and win once he is there. He has just not won the big one yet. Very much like Dungy. And I wouldn't be surprised if he wins it all just as Dungy did. Might take 3 or 4 more years, but I really believe we are on the right path this time.

Personally I like herm too

StcChief
04-30-2008, 12:49 PM
I know I am in the minority around here, but I like Herm as a coach. I agree with his philosophy and everything. I like tough defense and smashmouth play action type of offense. Call me old school, but I just like that type of football. I think we are assembling the type of talent needed to make that type of system work as well. Both sides of the ball. And Herm has proven he can get teams to the playoffs on a fairly regular basis and win once he is there. He has just not won the big one yet. Very much like Dungy. And I wouldn't be surprised if he wins it all just as Dungy did. Might take 3 or 4 more years, but I really believe we are on the right path this time.
I'm sold on his style, if he continues to evaluate and develop talent...
Playoffs in 2 years...maybe

if he takes 3 or 4 more years. I'm all for a SB W then.

StcChief
04-30-2008, 12:50 PM
dude slow down...


we just won the draft
what more could you want?PR man... I didn't say SB after 2008.

still works for media/NFL for Herm to be here.

Sure-Oz
04-30-2008, 12:51 PM
Herm can talk with the best of them, i like him as a person, but he needs to improve on the coaching/winning part

DT58HOF
04-30-2008, 12:56 PM
Not to be argumentative (though, I guess I am), do you think that someone else could have coached the Chiefs to a 9-7 record in 2006, given the loss of Trent Green (and no serious replacement) and Willie Roaf (with no serious replacement)?
well he did it so i would say yeah probably many other guys.
Are you saying his coaching got us 9 wins and his coaching made the Donks choke?

Hoover
04-30-2008, 01:04 PM
The grass is always greener on the other side.

The more taleted we are the less a poor coaching decision is going to hurt us.

FAX
04-30-2008, 01:09 PM
As an anti-Herm, I view his "PR skills" as overrated as well. Frankly, the most entertaining and interesting aspect of his public statements are the new words he devises to explain something that didn't make sense to begin with. Nevertheless, he's very quotable and the media loves that.

The only (and I mean "only") thing that Herm seems to do well is scout talent. I have no idea if he can develop the players he finds, nor do I know if he can put them in a position to win. Were I selecting a coach, those are two critical skills I would look for.

FAX

Chief Chief
04-30-2008, 01:14 PM
Overall, PR skills shouldn't count as much as on-the-field qualities when evaluating a coach.

For example, even with a number of incidents on the record, look how long Indiana U. hung onto Bobby Knight.

As someone would say, "At the end of the day, it's OK."

Zouk
04-30-2008, 01:15 PM
When it comes right down to it, you'll usually find that most of the criticisms of Herm's game day decisions boil down to people thinking he should have exposed Jordan Black to Dwight Freeney more in Indy.

DaneMcCloud
04-30-2008, 01:23 PM
well he did it so i would say yeah probably many other guys.
Are you saying his coaching got us 9 wins and his coaching made the Donks choke?

Nope, I'm not saying that at all.

Dick Vermeil (who is worshipped by so many around here) had Willie Roaf and a healthy Trent Green (and a complete team that was one year younger), yet he was only able to coax one more win out of essentially the same squad (plus he had Saunders, not Solari).

While I wouldn't put Herm in the category of some of the great coaches (Belichick, Walsh, Johnson, Lombardi, Noll, Gibbs, Parcells) and maybe not in the same category as the very good (Reid, Holmgren, etc.), I think that if Herm has a healthy, talented squad, he's going to win a minimum of 9 games per year.

His drafts have been successful. Let's see how this team shapes up before calling him a poor coach. Keep in mind that he was essentially forced into playing veterans AND forced into retaining Vermeil's offensive staff.

If you watch ANY team as closely as the Chiefs faithful watch theirs, you're bound to see mistakes by coaching staffs galore (save for the aforementioned Belichick).

Why do you think there's so much coaching turnover in the NFL?

raybec 4
04-30-2008, 01:39 PM
I personally feel that like any other coach Herm has his strengths and weaknesses. He is VERY media friendly, but that is more of a good thing for him than it is the team/organization. I wonder if he were capable of winning games as acoach if he would feel the need to be such a PR guy.

FAX
04-30-2008, 02:50 PM
... While I wouldn't put Herm in the category of some of the great coaches (Belichick, Walsh, Johnson, Lombardi, Noll, Gibbs, Parcells) and maybe not in the same category as the very good (Reid, Holmgren, etc.), I think that if Herm has a healthy, talented squad, he's going to win a minimum of 9 games per year ....

Thank you for visiting us from the planet Whathehell. Welcome to Earth.

On this planet, any (if not all) NFL-level coach can get you a batch of wins with a "healthy, talented squad". It's what you do when you don't have all the players you want or need that determines your skill as a coach. We Earthlings have yet to see Herm demonstrate the ability to win consistently, let alone develop players, make sound game-day decisions, and/or gameplan the enemy coach to his advantage.

FAX

DaneMcCloud
04-30-2008, 04:08 PM
Thank you for visiting us from the planet Whathehell. Welcome to Earth.

On this planet, any (if not all) NFL-level coach can get you a batch of wins with a "healthy, talented squad". It's what you do when you don't have all the players you want or need that determines your skill as a coach. We Earthlings have yet to see Herm demonstrate the ability to win consistently, let alone develop players, make sound game-day decisions, and/or gameplan the enemy coach to his advantage.

FAX

Really? ANY?

Dave McGinnis and Buddy Ryan in Arizona couldn't, Chan Gailey in Dallas couldn't, George Siefert in Carolina couldn't, Bobby Ross in Detroit couldn't, Jimmy Johnson in Miami couldn't, Marty Schottenheimer in San Diego couldn't (not consistently), Dennis Erickson in Seattle or San Fran couldn't, Ray Rhodes in Green Bay couldn't, Dom Capers in Carolina or Houston couldn't - need I go on? Pete Carroll? Eric Mangini (10-6 to 4-12 - that isn't coaching?)?

I just don't BUY the idea that if a coach is given a fairly talented team, the team is an automatic winner. And I can provide more examples if necessary.

Reerun_KC
04-30-2008, 04:26 PM
I just don't BUY the idea that if a coach is given a fairly talented team, the team is an automatic winner. And I can provide more examples if necessary.
This is so true!

Give Herm the Pats during their SB Runs and they never make to one let alone many AFC Championships and SB's...

You hit the nail on the head, You can have all the talent in the world, but when your outdated broke down philsophy is all you can manage the game with, You will make All Madden teams look like the 2007 KC Chiefs.

Count Zarth
04-30-2008, 04:28 PM
Honestly, PR had little to do with it.

FAX
04-30-2008, 04:29 PM
Really? ANY?

Dave McGinnis and Buddy Ryan in Arizona couldn't, Chan Gailey in Dallas couldn't, George Siefert in Carolina couldn't, Bobby Ross in Detroit couldn't, Jimmy Johnson in Miami couldn't, Marty Schottenheimer in San Diego couldn't (not consistently), Dennis Erickson in Seattle or San Fran couldn't, Ray Rhodes in Green Bay couldn't, Dom Capers in Carolina or Houston couldn't - need I go on? Pete Carroll? Eric Mangini (10-6 to 4-12 - that isn't coaching?)?

I just don't BUY the idea that if a coach is given a fairly talented team, the team is an automatic winner. And I can provide more examples if necessary.

Klatu verata niktu!!!

I assumed from your strange alien speech that, when you said "healthy and talented", you actually meant "healthy and talented". I now understand that you intended to mean "fairly talented". As you know, Mr. DaneMcCloud, the problem with these discussions is that they devolve into arguments about what "talented" means, so I shall defer. Nevertheless, given the "fairly talented" criteria we are now working with, until Hermoine can demonstrate that he can win consistently (or at least compete) with a "fairly talented" team, I still cannot in good conscience agree that he is an effective NFL-caliber coach.

FAX

DaneMcCloud
04-30-2008, 04:39 PM
Klatu verata niktu!!!

I assumed from your strange alien speech that, when you said "healthy and talented", you actually meant "healthy and talented". I now understand that you intended to mean "fairly talented". As you know, Mr. DaneMcCloud, the problem with these discussions is that they devolve into arguments about what "talented" means, so I shall defer. Nevertheless, given the "fairly talented" criteria we are now working with, until Hermoine can demonstrate that he can win consistently (or at least compete) with a "fairly talented" team, I still cannot in good conscience agree that he is an effective NFL-caliber coach.

FAX

Fair enough

Dylan
04-30-2008, 04:56 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/customavatars/avatar7210_4.gif

This brings back childhood memories --When I was a little girl, I fell in love with the KC Chiefs uniforms.

Don't laugh...:D

the Talking Can
04-30-2008, 05:55 PM
who doesn't love a clown?

Reerun_KC
04-30-2008, 05:57 PM
who doesn't love a clown?
:clap:

Dylan
04-30-2008, 06:47 PM
who doesn't love a clown?

i'm a clown, now? lol

Reerun_RC behave yourself -- or I'll turn this thread upside down... :D

Ari Chi3fs
04-30-2008, 07:13 PM
f*ck carl peterson

MadMax
04-30-2008, 07:21 PM
f*ck carl peterson



What he said.

MadMax
04-30-2008, 07:23 PM
Klatu verata niktu!!!

I assumed from your strange alien speech that, when you said "healthy and talented", you actually meant "healthy and talented". I now understand that you intended to mean "fairly talented". As you know, Mr. DaneMcCloud, the problem with these discussions is that they devolve into arguments about what "talented" means, so I shall defer. Nevertheless, given the "fairly talented" criteria we are now working with, until Hermoine can demonstrate that he can win consistently (or at least compete) with a "fairly talented" team, I still cannot in good conscience agree that he is an effective NFL-caliber coach.

FAX

OMG! Fax is back! Good to see ya...lol :)

the Talking Can
04-30-2008, 07:39 PM
i'm a clown, now? lol

Reerun_RC behave yourself -- or I'll turn this thread upside down... :D

huh?

the thread is about Herm

Logical
04-30-2008, 08:38 PM
I know I am in the minority around here, but I like Herm as a coach. I agree with his philosophy and everything. I like tough defense and smashmouth play action type of offense. Call me old school, but I just like that type of football. I think we are assembling the type of talent needed to make that type of system work as well. Both sides of the ball. And Herm has proven he can get teams to the playoffs on a fairly regular basis and win once he is there. He has just not won the big one yet. Very much like Dungy. And I wouldn't be surprised if he wins it all just as Dungy did. Might take 3 or 4 more years, but I really believe we are on the right path this time.Coogs you have every right to like Herm and his system if that is your preference. NTTAWWT

However, how can you make the statement he knows how to make the playoff on a fairly regular basis?

Reerun_KC
04-30-2008, 10:07 PM
i'm a clown, now? lol

Reerun_RC behave yourself -- or I'll turn this thread upside down... :D
Its not easy... I like nothing more than to bash Carl and Herm for their quest of Mediocrity....

Reerun_KC = STFU on this one...

Mr. Kotter
04-30-2008, 10:13 PM
All in all....Herm has been a good choice. He and Kuharich have greatly improved our drafts...so, maybe, whoever the next headcoach is...if Herm fails....will have a decent "foundation" when they take the reins of the team, and Herm heads into Peterson's job....

:hmmm:

Reerun_KC
04-30-2008, 10:14 PM
All in all....Herm has been a good choice. He and Kuharich have greatly improved our drafts...so, maybe, whoever the next headcoach is...if Herm fails....will have a decent "foundation" when they take the reins of the team, and Herm heads into Peterson's job....

:hmmm:
I agree, I do feel how ever that Carl and Herm have wasted 2 of their 4 years here in KC.. The first was the flop of the 9-7 year, then when they “tried” to make a playoff run last year was a joke. Now they are trying to rebuild. There is no way they should be back after 09, no freaking way. They had their chances and they pissed them away with Carls “best chance to win now” BS. But I want all remeants of Herm, Carl and Mediocrity removed after 09...

New start and new direction.

Mr. Kotter
05-01-2008, 07:54 AM
I agree, I do feel how ever that Carl and Herm have wasted 2 of their 4 years here in KC.. The first was the flop of the 9-7 year, then when they “tried” to make a playoff run last year was a joke. Now they are trying to rebuild. There is no way they should be back after 09, no freaking way. They had their chances and they pissed them away with Carls “best chance to win now” BS. But I want all remeants of Herm, Carl and Mediocrity removed after 09...

New start and new direction.

Yup. They should have been doing what they've done the last two or three years....all along.

Coogs
05-01-2008, 08:04 AM
Coogs you have every right to like Herm and his system if that is your preference. NTTAWWT

However, how can you make the statement he knows how to make the playoff on a fairly regular basis?

Isn't he going to the playoffs at about a .500 clip on his career? That is fairly regular compared to some of the other coaches in this league.

Dylan
05-01-2008, 11:17 AM
huh?

the thread is about Herm

Awww pumpkin, I can easily fit the clown description all by myself. .... Seriously. :D

Talking Can: can you please tell me why my Casino Cash keeps growing? thanks

Coogs
05-01-2008, 11:50 AM
However, how can you make the statement he knows how to make the playoff on a fairly regular basis?

Dating back to the 2001 season when Edwards entered the NFL head coaching ranks, only three active head coaches in the league — Tony Dungy, Bill Belichick and Andy Reid — own more postseason appearances than Edwards, who has guided his clubs to four postseason berths in six seasons.

It would be 4 in 7 seasons now, but that's not bad. And look at how many have done better over that time span.