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View Full Version : NFL Draft The Chiefs Shopped the #5 Pick to the Patriots (and Jets)


Amnorix
05-05-2008, 09:41 AM
I missed this show, and was PO'ed about it, but Patriots All-Access is a special in-depth look at the Patriots. It's weekly during the season, and had a special episode for the draft. Though I didn't see it, a Pats writer said this about what he saw in the episode:

A few leftover nuggets from the Patriots' draft room, as seen in television footage on Patriots All-Access: 1. The Chiefs called to shop the No. 5 pick, apparently trying to play the Patriots (No. 7) against the Jets (No. 6), but New England didn't take the bait

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2008/05/04/nance_back_in_the_running/?page=5

BigChiefFan
05-05-2008, 09:43 AM
Old news.

Pestilence
05-05-2008, 09:44 AM
God I could have seen us trade with the Patriots so they could move up to #5 and then they trade with the Saints so the Saints could grab Dorsey.

HolmeZz
05-05-2008, 09:44 AM
It's cute we think we're capable of out-smarting the Patriots.

StcChief
05-05-2008, 09:56 AM
It's cute we think we're capable of out-smarting the Patriots.Carl just trying to justify his existence with Chiefs.:shake::)

Pitt Gorilla
05-05-2008, 10:00 AM
It's cute we think we're capable of out-smarting the Patriots.We did. We got Dorsey.

Amnorix
05-05-2008, 10:04 AM
After the Saints traded their #10 pick for our 7, they then offered their 2nd rounder (40) and 1st next year for our 10.

Pats-math said they'd have to get the #12 pick or better for it to be a good deal for us, so we turned it down. Thought that was interesting (though not Chiefs related).

patteeu
05-05-2008, 10:05 AM
Good.

smittysbar
05-05-2008, 10:14 AM
I think we ended up on the good side of this.

StcChief
05-05-2008, 10:16 AM
The fact NFL didn't take their trade valued #7 and leave them with their #31 pisses me off.

Amnorix
05-05-2008, 10:18 AM
The fact NFL didn't take their trade valued #7 and leave them with their #31 pisses me off.

Hope you get over it someday. Really. Your mental health shouldn't suffer over things like this...

xbarretx
05-05-2008, 10:21 AM
We did. We got Dorsey.

:clap:

Anyong Bluth
05-05-2008, 10:26 AM
Why wouldn't you throw it out there to see if you can get someone to make a ridiculous offer. I wanted Dorsey, but it's smart to listen to anyone.

StcChief
05-05-2008, 10:28 AM
Hope you get over it someday. Really. Your mental health shouldn't suffer over things like this...not really pissed, but more punishment for spygate etc.... would have been nice :D

King Carl trying to out smart anybody on draft day is really funny though.

the fact he didn't F UP our 5,17 picks is still amazing. :)

Skip Towne
05-05-2008, 10:34 AM
not really pissed, but more punishment for spygate etc.... would have been nice :D

King Carl trying to out smart anybody on draft day is really funny though.

the fact he didn't F UP our 5,17 picks is still amazing. :)

I heard he was locked in a closet.

el borracho
05-05-2008, 10:37 AM
It's cute we think we're capable of out-smarting the Patriots.

Photographers actually captured a still shot of Carl trying to outwit Pioli:

http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-17760635.jpg?size=572&uid=%7BE22DBE76-F546-4C29-A79D-F2E6202908EA%7D

blueballs
05-05-2008, 10:37 AM
That was jut the Mangenious talking pompas
Carl was getting Clark coffee

StcChief
05-05-2008, 10:52 AM
I heard he was locked in a closet.

this has happened 19 years to late. :cuss:

DeezNutz
05-05-2008, 10:56 AM
After the Saints traded their #10 pick for our 7, they then offered their 2nd rounder (40) and 1st next year for our 10.

Pats-math said they'd have to get the #12 pick or better for it to be a good deal for us, so we turned it down. Thought that was interesting (though not Chiefs related).

This is Chiefs related, though. The Saints offered more to the Pats to try to get the #10 pick than they did to the Chiefs to try to get the #5 pick. Sad. :shake:

StcChief
05-05-2008, 10:59 AM
This is Chiefs related, though. The Saints offered more to the Pats to try to get the #10 pick than they did to the Chiefs to try to get the #5 pick. Sad. :shake:
and King Carl didn't bite.... still amazing to me.

SNR
05-05-2008, 11:01 AM
Would've been interesting to hear the offers from both teams and play the "what if" game.

May as well. It's the offseason.

kstater
05-05-2008, 11:02 AM
They better have been shopping the pick to every team not named Oakland, San Diego, or Denver.

DeezNutz
05-05-2008, 11:12 AM
and King Carl didn't bite.... still amazing to me.

Agreed. Carl must have a hell of a reputation around the league, half a notch higher up the ladder than the clown in Detroit, whom Carl fleeced, ironically enough.

Basileus777
05-05-2008, 11:19 AM
Carl didn't fleece Millen. Millen was going to take Cherilus anyway. He got an extra pick, moved up in the third round, and got the guy he wanted anyway.

We need to make the trade because the Eagles were trying to move up too, but we didn't really fleece Detroit.

DeezNutz
05-05-2008, 11:30 AM
Carl didn't fleece Millen. Millen was going to take Cherilus anyway. He got an extra pick, moved up in the third round, and got the guy he wanted anyway.

We need to make the trade because the Eagles were trying to move up too, but we didn't really fleece Detroit.

We didn't give up much to make the deal, and that's what I mean. We came out of pocket for a 5th, pretty meager when thinking about first-round moves. Essentially, the good-'ol-boy network paid dividends.

Ebolapox
05-05-2008, 11:48 AM
I heard he was locked in a closet.

haters wanna hate
lovers wanna love
I don't even want
none of the above...

patteeu
05-05-2008, 11:59 AM
This is Chiefs related, though. The Saints offered more to the Pats to try to get the #10 pick than they did to the Chiefs to try to get the #5 pick. Sad. :shake:

How do you figure?

Hoover
05-05-2008, 12:06 PM
i give them props for seeing what was out there. I'd also be interested in when those calls took place, during our 10 mins or before?

DeezNutz
05-05-2008, 12:09 PM
How do you figure?

In exchange for the #5 pick, the Chiefs would have received the Saints' 1st rounder, a 7th rounder, and next year's 1st rounder. I was assuming that N.E. and the Saints would be swapping 1st rounders, too, but perhaps I'm mistaken. Is so, the offer to the Pats was laughable.

thehead
05-05-2008, 12:09 PM
I heard he was locked in a closet.


This can really be the only answer:clap:

Amnorix
05-05-2008, 12:50 PM
In exchange for the #5 pick, the Chiefs would have received the Saints' 1st rounder, a 7th rounder, and next year's 1st rounder. I was assuming that N.E. and the Saints would be swapping 1st rounders, too, but perhaps I'm mistaken. Is so, the offer to the Pats was laughable.


Is that definite? 2 first rounders and a 7th just to move up 5 spots? That seems like massive overkill, and I'm honestly surprised the Chiefs didn't take that offer.

That offer made to the Pats -- a 2nd this year and a 1st next year to get the Pats 1st this year, is fairly standard, but as the Pats determined, the Saints would have to draft pretty high in the 1st next year for it to work out for us (Pats decided they'd have to be in the top 12 next year for it to be "good value").

Pats traded a 1st in '04 I think it was to the Ravens at about pick #21, with the Ravens giving us their second (45th or somesuch), and their #1 the next year.

patteeu
05-05-2008, 12:52 PM
In exchange for the #5 pick, the Chiefs would have received the Saints' 1st rounder, a 7th rounder, and next year's 1st rounder. I was assuming that N.E. and the Saints would be swapping 1st rounders, too, but perhaps I'm mistaken. Is so, the offer to the Pats was laughable.

By my calculations (using this Draft Value Chart (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/valuechart.html)), after all was said and done, it looks to me like they offered KC more even after you account for the fact that KC started out with a better pick to trade.

The Saints/Patriots deal/offer:

New England would have ended up getting:
Saints 2nd (480pts),
Saints 3rd (220pts), and
Saints 1st Rounder Next Year

For a total of 700 pts plus next year's 1st.

New Orleans would have ended up getting:
Patriot's 1st, #7 overall (1500pts)
Patriot's 5th (28pts)

For a total of 1528 pts

The difference of 828 pts means that next year's 1st would have to be around the 20th pick in the draft or better for NE to profit (if you ignore any discount for waiting a year).

=====================

The Saints/Chiefs offer:

Kansas City would have ended up getting:
Saints 1st, #10 overall (1300pts),
Saints 7th (10pts), and
Saints 1st Rounder Next Year

For a total of 1310 pts plus next year's 1st.

New Orleans would have ended up getting:
Chief's 1st, #5 overall (1700pts)

For a total of 1700 pts

The difference of 390 pts means that Kansas City would be 200 pts ahead even if the Saints ended up with the 32nd pick (if you ignore any discount for waiting a year).

Of course, when teams do their calculations, they don't ignore the discount for waiting a year so the point differences aren't exactly right (which is why NE calculated that they'd need NO to have the 12th pick or better), but for the purpose of comparing the deals to one another, that added complication can be ignored since it's the same pick being offered to both teams.

Basileus777
05-05-2008, 12:56 PM
Next years picks are considered significantly less valuable by the chart value system.

There was a huge difference in talent available between the 10th pick and the 5th pick. The difference between Dorsey and say Clady is more than a mid first rounder that trade would have netted us.

StcChief
05-05-2008, 12:57 PM
Of course, when teams do their calculations, they don't ignore the discount for waiting a year so the point differences aren't exactly right (which is why NE calculated that they'd need NO to have the 12th pick or better), but for the purpose of comparing the deals to one another, that added complication can be ignored since it's the same pick being offered to both teams. Figuring the 2009 NO Pick would likely be >15th overall. Maybe in 20s.

Didn't seem like such a great deal.

patteeu
05-05-2008, 12:59 PM
Is that definite? 2 first rounders and a 7th just to move up 5 spots? That seems like massive overkill, and I'm honestly surprised the Chiefs didn't take that offer.

It does look like a pretty decent offer, but I'm happy that the Chiefs turned it down.

patteeu
05-05-2008, 01:00 PM
Next years picks are considered significantly less valuable by the chart value system.

Right, but that doesn't impact the comparison since both teams were offered the same pick next year. It definitely impacts whether or not either team would accept the offer though.

DeezNutz
05-05-2008, 01:13 PM
As Patteeu has shown, perhaps the Saints' offer was more fair than I originally thought, but I still don't like it. I don't think one can underscore the significance of turning down top-tier talent for alleged draft value. Two years of 1st round picks would have been nice, but two years of risking not getting one of the best players in the draft is not smart management.

As we've said already, I'm surprised Carl didn't do it.

the Talking Can
05-05-2008, 01:14 PM
any other year you might take that deal...but when you're rebuilding and a consensus elite DT is sitting there...

Amnorix
05-05-2008, 01:49 PM
Ultimately, it all depends on whether the player pans out or not, which is only partially in the team's control. It also depends on who you take with the picks you got, and how high the future pick ends up being.

aturnis
05-05-2008, 03:13 PM
We did. We got Dorsey.

Oh no you DIT'ENT!